How To Cultivate Inner Peace In Uncertain Times

Summary

Podcast Title: The School of Greatness
Host: Lewis Howes
Episode: How To Cultivate Inner Peace In Uncertain Times
Release Date: January 17, 2025

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Overview

In this compelling episode of The School of Greatness, host Lewis Howes engages in a profound conversation with influential guests Sarah Jakes Roberts, Rob Bell, and Mike Todd. The discussion centers around cultivating inner peace amidst uncertainty, addressing personal power dynamics, overcoming fear and shame, and fostering authentic relationships. The guests share personal anecdotes, actionable strategies, and insightful perspectives aimed at empowering listeners to navigate life's challenges with resilience and grace.

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Confronting Fear and Shame

Sarah Jakes Roberts begins the dialogue by addressing the pervasive feelings of powerlessness that many experience. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing and sizing up one's internal adversaries—fear, shame, doubt, and worry—to effectively overcome them.

“If you have fear, shame, doubt, and worry, we say these words so casually and so frequently that they have become normalized. The only problem with normalizing our insecurities is that they don't retain the same level of power needed to overcome them.”
— Sarah Jakes Roberts [02:43]

Sarah asserts that acknowledging the true power of these negative emotions is the first step towards reclaiming personal power. By identifying and confronting these feelings, individuals can prevent them from dictating their destinies.

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Reclaiming and Redirecting Personal Power

The conversation shifts to the concept of "power moves," a term Sarah uses to describe intentional actions taken to reclaim power from fear and shame. She advocates for directing this reclaimed power towards personal growth and transformation.

“Power moves is all about really reclaiming power from fear, from our shame, from our past, and recognizing that power can move through you.”
— Sarah Jakes Roberts [06:00]

Sarah outlines a three-step process:

1. Identify the negative emotions and understand their impact.
2. Reclaim the power once held by these emotions.
3. Redirect this power towards positive transformation.

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Authenticity in Relationships

Lewis Howes probes deeper into how these power moves apply to personal relationships. Sarah shares her struggles with authenticity, particularly in intimate relationships, where fear has previously silenced her voice.

“I've realized that being authentic means being willing to make space for the reality that just because what we saw didn't seem healthy, it doesn't mean that we can't create something healthy.”
— Sarah Jakes Roberts [23:53]

She emphasizes the necessity of aligning personal definitions of success and power with those of one’s partner to build a supportive and enduring relationship.

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Healing from Trauma

Mike Todd joins the conversation to discuss his personal journey of overcoming trauma and emotional challenges. He shares a transformative story from his childhood that shaped his relentless pursuit of greatness, often at the expense of personal well-being.

“I had this revelation that I had become allergic to being good. I could only be great. And this served me for almost 20 years until I reached a level of success where it was no longer sustainable.”
— Mike Todd [51:04]

Mike illustrates how unaddressed trauma can lead to destructive behaviors and emphasizes the importance of healing to prevent trauma from sabotaging personal and professional endeavors.

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Practical Strategies for Inner Peace

The guests delve into actionable strategies for cultivating inner peace:

1. Self-Reflection and Awareness: Regularly assess how fear and shame manifest in daily life.

   “At the end of each chapter, we have sections to marinate on how you would have wanted to do something differently and activate it the next time you’re faced with a similar situation.”
   — Sarah Jakes Roberts [08:28]

2. Authentic Communication: Encourage honest dialogue in relationships to foster mutual understanding and support.

   “If you can communicate what makes you feel safe and what you need from your partner, you can create a stronger, more secure bond.”
   — Sarah Jakes Roberts [20:49]

3. Self-Care Practices: Prioritize personal well-being through activities like meditation, exercise, and time away from digital distractions.

   “Taking intentional time with yourself, whether it’s through meditation, therapy, or simply quiet reflection, is essential for maintaining inner peace.”
   — Rob Bell [65:02]

4. Forgiveness and Letting Go: Embrace forgiveness to release lingering bitterness and foster emotional freedom.

   “Forgive everybody for everything. Holding onto bitterness is like drinking rat poison and expecting the rat to die.”
   — Rob Bell [77:19]

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Building Resilient Relationships

The dialogue highlights the significance of building relationships grounded in authenticity and mutual support. The guests discuss how shared values and open communication contribute to lasting partnerships.

“When you create your own definition of love and partnership, and protect it, you can build a bond that lasts throughout time.”
— Sarah Jakes Roberts [25:45]

Mike Todd adds that healing within a relationship requires both partners to commit to personal growth and support each other through challenges.

“If two people come together and decide to work through their trauma, their relationship becomes exponentially stronger.”
— Mike Todd [37:21]

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Conclusion: Embracing Inner Peace

The episode concludes with a powerful reflection on the importance of inner peace as the foundation for a fulfilling life. The guests reinforce the idea that cultivating inner peace is an ongoing journey that requires conscious effort, self-awareness, and a commitment to personal growth.

“Taking care of yourself is the best way to serve others. When you are whole, you can give more authentically and effectively.”
— Rob Bell [70:58]

Lewis Howes wraps up by encouraging listeners to apply these insights to unlock their inner greatness and navigate uncertain times with confidence and serenity.

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Key Takeaways

• Acknowledge and Confront Negative Emotions: Recognize the power of fear, shame, and doubt to prevent them from controlling your life.
• Reclaim and Redirect Personal Power: Use intentional actions to transform negative emotions into sources of strength and growth.
• Foster Authentic Relationships: Prioritize honest communication and align personal values with your partner to build strong, supportive relationships.
• Commit to Healing: Address past traumas through self-care, therapy, and forgiveness to break destructive patterns and enhance personal well-being.
• Embrace Continuous Growth: Cultivate inner peace as an ongoing process that empowers you to live a fulfilling and resilient life.

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Notable Quotes

• “I want to be better than who fear says I am.” — Sarah Jakes Roberts [04:35]
• “Power can move through you when you reclaim it from fear and shame.” — Sarah Jakes Roberts [06:00]
• “If two people come together and decide to work through their trauma, their relationship becomes exponentially stronger.” — Mike Todd [37:21]
• “Forgive everybody for everything. Holding onto bitterness is like drinking rat poison and expecting the rat to die.” — Rob Bell [77:19]
• “Taking care of yourself is the best way to serve others.” — Rob Bell [70:58]

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This episode offers invaluable insights into achieving inner peace by addressing and transforming internal challenges. Through the shared experiences and wisdom of the guests, listeners are equipped with practical tools to cultivate resilience, foster authentic relationships, and lead a life of purpose and fulfillment.

Transcript

[Lewis Howes]

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[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

So I've spent Almost as much time feeling like I was powerless than I have flowing in this level of power.

[Rob Bell]

Really?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah. And I will say that part of the reason why so many of us end up feeling powerless is because we have not fully sized up our opponent. So if you have fear, if you have shame, if you have doubt and you have worry, we say these words so casually and so frequently that they have become normalized. The only problem with normalizing our insecurities, our fears, the abandonment and the rejection issues is that they don't really have the same level of power that they need to have in order for us to overcome it. And by that, I mean fear is powerful. Shame is powerful. Our doubt is powerful. It's powerful enough to keep you stuck in relationships. It's powerful enough to keep you alone, to keep you from pursuing your purpose and a business deal, whatever. It's got power, too. And if you're going to have power, you got to have the right target. And instead of trying to target something that's going to make you feel better about those things, we have to face off with the fear. We have to face off with the doubt and with the shame. We've got to look that thing in the eye and say, at the end of the day, I no longer want to be controlled by you any longer. You've had my name for far too long. You've dictated my destiny for far too long. I want to be better than who fear says I am. I want to be better than what shame says that I am. And in order to direct our power in the right direction, we got to know who our opponent is. And so I would say to anyone who believes that I don't have what it takes or I don't have enough worth that as long as you believe that it is true. What we need to be saying instead is that I need enough power to finally get out of this pattern of thinking that has kept me stuck, that has kept me feeling defeated. And that is a stronger belief. And I believe that anyone who's going to introduce a stronger belief has to be able to say, I am this and that. Like, I may be a teen mom, but I'm still a girl who has dreams. I may have come from a broken home, but I still want to pursue this. I do not want these statistics to end up defining who I am for the rest of my life. And so just because I'm this doesn't mean that I won't be that either. And so being able to live in this duality so that fear doesn't Convince us that who we were yesterday defines who we're going to be tomorrow.

[Lewis Howes]

So I. Identifying it first, facing it.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

This thing has real power. It has enough power to keep me from moving, enough power to keep me from growing. Now that I have identified that it actually has power, I want to talk about how I want to extract the power, reclaim the power that fear has, that shame has, and pointed in a direction that will allow me to experience wholeness and joy and peace and confidence. Power moves is all about really reclaiming power from fear, from our shame, from our past, and recognizing that power moves. Just because it had enough power to stop you in your past doesn't mean that it gets to keep that power. When you reclaim it, you can begin moving in the direction of transformation from the inside out. Not just because I want to get a new job or I want to build something on the outside. When power moves in you, then power can move through you.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow. Okay. I love this. So when you identify it and you face it.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

As opposed to, I guess, running away from it or just allowing it to consume you.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

What would be the next step? How do we move that power into a direction that supports and serves and empowers us?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I love that you asked this, because then we need to study. How does this show up in my life? So I. In my intimate relationships, I would never speak up. So if someone projected something onto me and said, oh, you know, Sarah doesn't want to do this, or, hey, we're going to do this, and say, I would never use my voice, even if I disagreed, I would just go with the flow. I didn't want to be a disruptor. I didn't want to detract from anyone, even if it was a major decision. And so I recognized that the power of fear was showing up in keeping me from actually using my voice. And so I have identified it now. I've seen how it shows up in my life. To go to the end of the day and to reconcile, how did the power of fear, the power of shame, show up? It determined what I put on. It determined whether or not I spoke up in the meaning. It made me shut down. I got angry. Like, how did this show up in my life? And what do I wish I would have done instead? What would have been the power move that I did instead? What do. And the beautiful thing about this is when you're reconciling it within yourself, you can say whatever you want to say to yourself. Like, you may not. This may not be what I was hipstered in the Meeting like, I wish I'd have told her to shut up and sit. Like, that may not be what you say in the meeting, but start practicing what it feels like to use your voice, to show up in power, to do the opposite of what fear and anxiety and doubt do the opposite of that, even if you're only doing it within yourself. Because you have to exercise using your own power within. Because the next time there's a moment like this, you get to capture and say, wait a minute. This is a moment where I get to choose to have faith or I get to choose to have fear. And because I've already practiced how I want to show up in this space, this may be the moment where I dip my toe in the water and begin to show up a little bit. Right, right.

[Lewis Howes]

A boundary or say, no, that doesn't work for me right now.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah, let me think about that. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

As well as just going along with what you would always. Your past identity would always do, I guess.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

For sure.

[Lewis Howes]

So it's almost like create a rehearsal and practice with yourself first. Once you identify and you're aware of it. I'm hearing you say, like, how would you reflect on something you would have done earlier that day that you wish you had the power to do?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Exactly.

[Lewis Howes]

And start practicing it on your own.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

So at the end of each chapter, we literally have this, like, marinate, activate prayer. So it's like these three sections where it's like, let's marinate on how you would have wanted to do something differently. And then let's activate it. The next time you're doing X, Y, and Z, try and show up in a way that allows power to move through you and then a prayer to help you in those moments, because it does create change is not always easy, even when we know it needs to be implemented as true. It's just not.

[Lewis Howes]

What's the biggest power move you need to make in your life right now? The biggest change that's on your heart or mind or in your world that, you know, you're still marinating. Marinating and need to activate.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

And I am still probably really. I have to, you know, because we are on a podcast where people hear things. I am needing to be more intentional about owning my voice. As an entrepreneur. There are.

[Lewis Howes]

Are you not being authentic in certain areas or you're not?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I am. I would. It's hard to say that I'm not being authentic because I don't fully. I. I don't know that I have fully owned. The fact that there are a lot of things that I have, like, stumbled into. And then there are many things that I had to really be strateg about, you know, making specific hiring choices, making sure that our brand has a certain feel, touching, consistency. And I've done that with intention. But because I act like everything just happened by accident, it's keeping me from really understanding how to serve other people and giving these tools away and to really empower my team to, like, own what they know as well.

[Mike Todd]

Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

So that's what you're working on?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

That's what I'm working on.

[Lewis Howes]

Okay.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

And I know that my fear in working on that, the reason why I haven't, is because I don't want to come off as an expert when I am still learning. And so I would rather just be like, I'm still learning than to own what I know thus far and allow that to. To be used for whoever needs it.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. But you weren't an expert when you started speaking on stage either, were you?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I was not.

[Lewis Howes]

Did it stop you from putting yourself out there?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

And it did not.

[Lewis Howes]

But sharing a message, you know, authentically and imperfectly, and it served and moved people. Think about that.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

See what you did there? A little sprinkle.

[Lewis Howes]

What is the prayer you need to hear right now for yourself?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

You're called to this. You're called to do this as you are, to just keep it pure. I think that the hard thing about success, which feels like a very cringy word, is that people begin to impose their strategies onto you. And when those strategies and ideas about who you could be and what you could do and this could happen for you, it can make you hungry for something that you never even had an appetite for. And so protecting my appetite so that I can continue to just focus on what God has put in my heart is my greatest responsibility.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow. Yes. It's interesting. I just. I just wrote down kind of what you were sharing there. I put calling on top. And then. Success versus service. Service.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And, you know, it sounded like you started sharing your story to be of service to people that were asking, hey, share your story.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And you realize, oh, this was helping individuals, you know, a handful of people, and then hundreds and thousands and millions. And you gain success as well through that process of just sharing your story and. And being of service. And then it sounds like it's moved you into a calling. That's what it's sounding like. Right?

[Rob Bell]

It's.

[Lewis Howes]

And. But how do we learn how to know when we're going after success versus service?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And how do we Know, well, this is an amazing opportunity, and here's this cool thing I could do with this person and this experience, and here's a lot of money over here and this project and this, you know, deal. How do we know when we're taking on success? And it is truly service versus success by itself.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I think the line is so thin that the only way you learn it is by trial and error. Wow. Yeah, unfortunately. But I think some of the qualifying questions I ask myself is, what's driving your desire to do this? And being real enough to know when it's ego. Being real enough to know when it's wanting to seek approval from certain industries or certain people, versus even with this book launch, like, you've written a book before. So everybody's like, you gotta hit the list. You gotta hit the list. You need X amount of numbers to hit the list. Hit the list, hit the list. But, like, when I wrote this book, I wasn't thinking about, how do I write a New York Times bestselling book. I wrote this book because I was completely consumed with this idea of what it means to have power and who holds it and who doesn't. And why do we believe that it's only reserved for a few. Like, I wanted to explore this idea of power, and I did that. Which means that this book has already been successful in the way that it was meant to be successful for me. And so for me to get to this point and then for it to become about, okay, but if you don't hit the list, it wasn't successful is robbing me of the obedience that started the book in the first place. And so I'm going to do everything I can to make sure that people hear about the message. But I'm not going to put the success of the book on whether or not it makes it into a list.

[Lewis Howes]

How does someone learn how to do that, though, when there's so much pressure from, you know, their survival, making money, their approval, the pressures of a publisher potentially telling you you need to do this, or letting people down, how does someone let go of the need for something to be successful and be an obedient servant to their calling and message instead? In a material world, when we got to survive and pay people and numbers.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Matter and all of that matters. I think defining what success is for yourself first. Because if you don't have a definition of what success is, that's part of. Even in the book, I have to define what power is for me as a person. Because if I do not have my own definition, I will be stretching and reaching for someone else's definition of power. And so I've got to know what it is for myself. And then I also need to know what is everyone else's definition of success or power in my world, Whether it is what it like. My husband and I perfect example, My definition of what it meant to be a good wife was like, dinner's on the table at six. You know, the house is completely clean. Like, you wake up and the house is clean. You make sure that before you go to bed, you look a certain way. Like, I had all of these different ideas of what it meant to be a good wife. I never stopped to ask the person I'm actually marrying, like, what is your definition of a good wife? Not societies, not what I've seen on sitcoms. What does it mean to be there's wife? Because I want to be successful and powerful at being your wife. Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

What did he say?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

He doesn't care about dinner. Be on the table at six. He's not nearly as obsessed with cleaning. He wants honesty, he wants communication, he wants loyalty, he wants joy, he wants peace. I would be up making sure the room was clean before we went to bed so that, like, if you wake up, the room is still clean and he's like, I want you to get in the bed so I can put your. Put my head in your lap.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

And even for someone who internalizes for my husband to value communication and honesty, sometimes I have like a whole dialogue going in within me and he has no idea what's happening, and he wants me to speak up. So I know that part of what it means to be a powerful wife to him is me being able to verbalize what I'm thinking and what's going on in my world. And so we are so consumed by living up to other people's expectations and other people's definition that we're robbing the people who we are in the closest proximity to of us being powerful in the roles that we play for them. And so when you come up with your own definition of power as it relates to your specific role, like, what is power as the founder? What is power as a spouse? What is power as an adult child? What's power as a parent? Specific to the people who you are called to serve, you're able to incubate what really matters and push away that which would try to make you perform into someone you're not.

[Lewis Howes]

Speaking of power moves, someone could look at this and think like, is this a relationship book about power moves? In relationships, you're speaking about your husband?

[Mike Todd]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

It seems to me like a lot of people are struggling in relationships. There's power dynamics where there's just fights happening all the time in intimate relationships where people are dating or married. Why do you think people struggle so much to have peaceful power in an intimate relationship? And today?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Probably fear of control.

[Lewis Howes]

Really?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah, I would. I think so. Fear of not even necessarily controlling another person, but controlling mitigating opportunities for hurt, like being.

[Lewis Howes]

Fear of being out of control, you mean?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yes, fear of being out of control. So the more that I can control myself or control them, try and control the way that this relationship works, the better off I'll be. So I have a lot of. I'll feel safe. Yeah, I think. Yeah. At the end of the day, I think people are searching for safety and safety and control often feel like they go hand in hand.

[Lewis Howes]

Can you feel safe if you're controlling someone else?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

No, I don't think so.

[Lewis Howes]

So how does someone feel safe in a relationship with, you know, someone else that they're sharing their heart with and being vulnerable and open with? How can they feel safe if someone else has the ability to hurt them?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

If you do not feel safe by yourself and on your own, it's going to be difficult for you to feel safe in the context of a relationship because at the end of the day, you have to get to a place of safety for yourself. Emotional safety, spiritual safety. Like, you have to know where is your home plate. And if you don't know your home plate and you just meet someone while you're out in the field running bases, then nobody knows where home is. So I have to know where my home plate is. What makes me feel safe is consistency, stability, rest. Makes me feel like I'm not an out being out on the town kind of person. Like, I like to be at home. It makes me feel safe. And so I know how to get myself to a space of safety. I know how to communicate to my husband because I know what is safe for me, what I need from him as well. And he knows what safety looks like for him as well. But when you don't know what it looks like, and there are times even in a marriage where you're just on autopilot, things are just going crazy. And now you're trying to, like, control everyone else's movement, I think you have to know I am out of my safety. And because I am out of my safety, I am now in survival mode. And because I am in survival mode, I have a different set of expectations than when I'm functioning from a place of safety, when I'm in survival mode. If you have a bad day, I think you're about to break up with me. Are you rejecting me? Does something go wrong because I don't feel safe by myself? But if we can get to a place of safety for ourselves, we can invite other people into the intimacy of our safety. We can visit the intimacy of their safety, and we can also give one each other space when that other person needs to get back to their place of safety.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I saw a very encouraging article that the divorce rates are actually going down because people have done a lot of work in therapy and understanding triggers and communicating. So marriage is becoming more safe than it once was. But I think that we also have a generation of women who feel like they saw a previous generation of women lose their selves in relationships, lose their voice, lose their ability to explore their creativity and their power to become subservient to whoever their partner was. And I think there's a legitimate fear in that for women who feel like, hey, I do want to create a life with someone, I do want to experience love, but I also want to be the fullness of who I am. And I'm not sure that the two can coexist and they are so committed to preserving who they are that they don't want to take a chance on relationships. And I think that that is a fair perspective based off of what we can see. But I do think that when we are in relationships with our partners, that we have to be willing to make space for the reality that just because what we saw didn't seem healthy, it doesn't mean that we can't create something healthy. Right? And in wanting to create something healthy, you have to make sure that you and whoever you're going to build with want the same things, that you're willing to create your own definition of what love and marriage and partnership looks like. And that whatever that definition is, that you will commit to protecting your definition because it may not be the world's definition, it may not be your parents definition or the church's definition or whatever, but you got to be willing to protect your definition so that you can have a bond that lasts throughout time. My husband and I, like, there are certain things we want for Our family, there are certain things we want for our marriage and we're often in worlds and cultures that don't always support that really, but we know what it is.

[Mike Todd]

Wow.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

But I mean, as long as you guys are coming together and in alignment.

[Mike Todd]

On it, that's all that matters for sure.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Because it's going to take the strength of both of us to maintain the marriage that we want. It can't just be a one sided strength.

[Lewis Howes]

What would you say are, you know, you've been married, what, 10 years now? 10 years now. And I was asking you some marriage advice before.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Because you're going, I'm engaged. And you know, getting to be getting married sometime soon. Exactly.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yes.

[Lewis Howes]

If someone was looking to get engaged or married to their partner that they're with right now, what would you say are three mandatory questions they should ask their partner before marriage to make sure that their answers are in alignment? And if they're not, then you should probably reconsider being in the relationship.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Well, my husband and I have a shared expression of faith. So I think making sure that you have a shared expression of faith, not even just a shared faith, but what does this expression look like for you? How does it show up in your world? Because everybody who believes in God isn't trying to live a life of light, love and goodness and conviction and humility. And so making sure you have a shared expression.

[Lewis Howes]

So it's not just the same beliefs, it's the same shared expression of the belief.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

That's interesting because he could be like, yeah, I believe in God, but I'm an angry person.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Right, right.

[Lewis Howes]

I'm just trying to tear the world down.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Exactly. How does, how does your faith show up in your action?

[Lewis Howes]

Interesting.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Okay. I will say that this isn't a question that you would have a shared answer to, but I think it's a question worth asking the person. And that is, what is the most traumatic experience you've had in your life and how does the residue of that experience show up in your presence?

[Lewis Howes]

Let's go. That's a big one.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah. Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

Okay, so one more time, say it again.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

What is the most traumatic experience experience of your life and how does the residue of that experience show up in your present?

[Lewis Howes]

That is so powerful because if people have not healed the wounds of the past and they drag them into the present, they'll keep happening in the future and it's going to affect the person.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

You'Re with and we're all a little crazy. And if you have normalized something that was traumatic Then you have become comfortable sleeping with the enemy.

[Mike Todd]

Wow.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I need to know that, you know, what hurt you, what wounded you, what changed the world the way that you see the world. Because I want to help you clear your lens. I'm not asking you to not have the lens. I just want you to understand how it shows up in who you are right now. And what do I need to do in order to help you see beyond what happened to you?

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, that's interesting, because if someone's replying and saying, well, I didn't really have anything and they're just dismissing it, or. Or it is a big thing, but they're not willing to address it, it's like it's going to impact you. It is the person you're with.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

For sure.

[Lewis Howes]

They might be avoidant or reactive or explosive.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Exactly.

[Lewis Howes]

But aggressive. You don't know. Yeah, that's a good one. Great question.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

And I would say the last one is what brings you joy?

[Lewis Howes]

Why that one?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

This world is tough. And I want to know the secret to putting a smile on your face when the world's trying to wipe it off.

[Lewis Howes]

That's beautiful.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Do you think the world is in more pain now than when you were a teenager?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I do not know. It feels like it. And there are plenty of reasons why I think it feels like that. But I also think social media has put it more in our face.

[Lewis Howes]

We didn't see this stuff.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

We didn't see it.

[Lewis Howes]

We would see it. Maybe newspapers or.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

But there were still wars. I mean, people were still going through a lot of pain. There were ups and downs in the economy. And so I want to believe that there was, you know, the same or similar amount of pain.

[Lewis Howes]

We shouldn't see it.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah. But it does feel very magnified.

[Lewis Howes]

It does. What is the. You know, you incorporate prayer in your life a lot. What is the prayer that you think the world needs to hear right now?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I think that every person has to be willing to ask themselves, God, what is it that I need to see and who is it that I need to be to address what I see? I think it's too big of a thing to ask, what is the prayer that the world needs? But if I can get people to understand that who you are in your world matters is significant, that you are a power player in your circle of influence, then they can take ownership over their corner of the world. And it may just be the four walls of their home.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

It doesn't have to. I want to believe that there's something in me that will address Every single problem in the world. I want to believe that all I have is this story, this platform, this gift to take the Bible and make it relatable. And it doesn't always feel like enough. It doesn't. But I release it anyway. And I believe that if we can all combine in releasing whatever we have anyway, that maybe we can make a difference in one person for one day or for a lifetime. But I think we have to be willing to take ownership because we've got devastation. And then we have people who are apathetic in many ways because they're so overwhelmed in what they can't do to solve what they see. But if we can engage in what we can control, I believe that we can see a difference. I have to believe that.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. I can't remember if this is like a quote or just an analogy, but. And I can't remember who said this, but something like, if you want to go change the world, start with your own house, start with your own family. I can't remember who said that. But it seems like so many people are trying to fix problems outside of their own life.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Like they're shouting about this cause and this problem and this thing in the world that's unjust and this war and this thing, you know, changing these policies. And I get it, I understand that. But it also seems like they're just not happy with their own life and they probably have challenges at home that they could be taken care of first. Why do you think so many people try to fix outside problems as opposed to focus on how they can improve their health, their relationships, their. Their past, their traumas, their family situation? Why do you think we, as society try to fix outside versus first fixing inside?

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I do think that there are some people who are literally called to focus on what's happening outside of maybe their immediate circle of influence. Like that immediate circle of influence may not be their target audience. Right. But I also think that there are some people.

[Lewis Howes]

But if they have broken relationships and they're, you know, sick or they're. They're not taking care of that first. That's.

[Sarah Jakes Roberts]

I guess, I mean, because it's just so much easier to sweep around someone else's front porch. It just is. I mean, we all know people who would, like, give the best advice that they don't take. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean that the advice itself is broken, but it is just really hard to do the heavy lifting for yourself. Most of the people who are like this strong friend for other people are showing up for them, but they need strength themselves because there is a vulnerability that comes when it's your life on the line, your relationship on the life, where the outcomes directly impact you. Yes. And so it can be very liberating to say, I'm going to tell you what to do, and then I will figure out my stuff later or not at all. But I do think that you can only effectively impart what you know to be true. Everything else is guesswork. But I can tell you that I found out power moves because I saw power on the platform and I saw power in the car line, and I saw power when I was creating a business plan. Like, I know this for myself. And when you know something for yourself, you're able to have a more convincing argument for other people. But it just requires a lot of vulnerability that many people aren't willing to step into.

[Mike Todd]

Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

What do you say to people that are really struggling, that really want love, really want intimacy and connection and just deep compassion with someone else, but they're afraid to do the healing work because the trauma is so scary?

[Mike Todd]

So I would say to you, because I know there's thousands of people watching this that feel that exact same thing, you need to examine the pattern, man, that's so true. Because if this is a pattern of you continually getting hurt because you do not heal, then it might be better for you long term to do the work to heal so that you can cut the cycle.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Mike Todd]

I think about Rest in Heaven, Kobe Bryant when he. When he tore his Achilles and he said he could come back and play before he was fully healed, he. He was ready. I mean, and he would have probably been better than nine out of 10 people on the floor. He could have fooled everybody, but he knew he wasn't his hundred percent.

[Lewis Howes]

He wasn't his best.

[Mike Todd]

He was not his best. So if it came down to the last minute when he really needed to be his best, he wouldn't have what he needed to have. So they took the time for him to actually heal. What I'm saying is you may be fooling everybody. You may. Your Instagram is popping, your business is successful. You got the bag and the body and you got all the different things. But, you know, deep down in your soul, your mind, will and emotions, you know you're still hurting. And so what ends up happening is you come in limping to love. You limp into love.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Mike Todd]

Instead of leaping into love.

[Lewis Howes]

Right.

[Mike Todd]

You should be able to go a lot higher. But because you're still aware of the thing that you need to be healed you don't go. And so what I'm saying is, if this is a pattern, if this is. If it's been the same, it was John, and then it was Joey, and then it was Julio, then it was j'quan and then it was Jared. Like, if it. If it's the same thing, you might want to step back and get a new perspective, because the pattern is the same. And a season of discipline can produce a lifetime of freedom.

[Lewis Howes]

Come on.

[Mike Todd]

And that's where I just. My encouragement. I've counseled too many people. I've been around too many people. I've helped so many people get through this hump in their life, and what they realize is what they're scared of. They need the most that intentional time with themselves, that intentional time with God, that intentional time with community, that intentional time in counseling. They need that. Because if you discover you. If you find out who you were made to be and walk in your purpose and get confident in that thing, then you actually will attract what you really want to love. And most people are attracting to their insecurities.

[Lewis Howes]

Ooh, man, that's true.

[Mike Todd]

You're attracting based on your trauma, not on the healed version of you.

[Lewis Howes]

Right.

[Mike Todd]

And so you're looking for somebody to play savior, and they can't. They've never been able to have that ability in this life. And so I would just encourage those people. I know it's hard. I know it's frustrating. I know you probably even tried before. But as someone who can identify with you, like, as someone who did not want to face their trauma, did not want to talk about the bad stuff that happened, did not want to even block stuff out. Like. Like, no, Like, I'm not going there. Like, the journey that I've gone on, to actually take everything that has damaged me and say, you know what? I may be damaged, but I'm not destroyed. This thing that was trauma, it actually can be fuel to make me triumph. I learned that the value was still in me, and then once I learned the value was in me, then I could give and add value to other people. And so I'm telling you, it may be hard, but it's going to be worth it.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow. You've been married for 14 years now.

[Mike Todd]

14 years.

[Lewis Howes]

14 years together. 21. Is that right?

[Mike Todd]

Yeah. This is my high school sweetheart. Met her when I was 15 years old, and she's still the finest woman I've ever seen in my life. I love her.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. I'm assuming, you know, I don't want to put words in your Mouth. But I'm assuming that when you met her, you weren't.

[Mike Todd]

I was a boy.

[Lewis Howes]

You weren't on the healing journey.

[Mike Todd]

No, I was a boy. I was still messing up.

[Lewis Howes]

You had traumas, you had challenges, you were struggling. And I'm assuming when you got married, you still had a lot of traumas and challenges, right?

[Mike Todd]

Yes.

[Lewis Howes]

So how do you heal in relationship if you've made a commitment to someone already and you realize, oh, you know what? I still got my wounds and traumas and I'm still kind of messing up in certain ways. And maybe she is too. But we've been together for three, four, five, six, seven years now. Now we got kids and we're realizing we've been trauma bonding or reacting or triggering each other or hurting each other unintentionally, or I've been hurting myself. Is it too late to heal and repair because of the baggage of someone in a relationship? Or can you still heal and mend and recreate a new relationship in a broken relationship? I'm not saying yours was broken.

[Mike Todd]

But anyone, this is what I do. And for everybody that's listening, you have to go get my book. Relationship goals. This is not what we're talking about today, but it will help you. It's how to win in marriage, dating, and sex. And you really need to get that. And my answer to your question, Louis, is yes. Overwhelmingly yes. Two broken people who make a decision to do something are way more powerful than a broken person who decides, I don't want to try. Like trying turns into training. And training can change your destiny. And so I've seen it in my life. I've seen it because in the reason I say get the book, because I tell you all the stuff I did. Like, I messed up, I jacked up, I lied, I did. I had months of insanity. I did all that other stuff. But this is my motto. Progression, not perfection. If somebody sees that you are moving forward or making attempts, statistics tell us that their ability to have grace for your mistakes grow exponentially.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Mike Todd]

Many times people are frustrated by the immobility of somebody or the paralyzation of somebody, or the nonchalant, I don't care, I'm not doing nothing attitude. But when somebody sees somebody trying, their grace goes up significantly. What I'm saying is it can't be one sided. But if two people come together and say, you know what? We've been jacked up. We've been messing each other up, I trigger you, you trigger me. This turns into all of this stuff.

[Lewis Howes]

We'Ve made Mistakes each other.

[Mike Todd]

We've jacked up, we've cheated, we've hurt each other. We spent money that people didn't know. Let's be real about it. Like, I went on a vacation with my girls and you had no idea what was happening? Or were you really out with your boys watching the game or were you come on like, like real stuff? I have seen all of those things change when people have made a decision.

[Rob Bell]

Wow.

[Mike Todd]

And this is what I say, I think I told you earlier, it applies to so many areas of your life. When you make a decision, your decision changes into a discipline. You have to do something. That's discipline. Okay, we're going to go to counseling once every two weeks. Or we're going to meet with another couple that's older than us and ask them how the hell they didn't kill each other. Or we're going to. You know what I'm saying? We need a discip. We're going to take walks together, we're going to talk, we're going to make a discipline. But once you get that discipline, somewhere around the consistency being all the time, even when you don't want to, it turns into a desire.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Mike Todd]

You literally go from a decision to a discipline to a desire. And that desire continued will change your destiny. You can apply that to any area of your life. You can apply it to relationships, money. You can apply it to what we were talking about earlier, health and working out. But I'm telling you, this is the formula for life. It is a decision. I don't want to, but I'm going to do it. That turns into a discipline. I don't feel like it, but I'm going to do it. Which then one day turns into a desire. Man, I actually want to do this. And then it changes your destiny. And if you can apply that to any area of your life with consistency, you will take every trauma situation and it has to turn into triumph.

[Lewis Howes]

Ooh.

[Mike Todd]

Every single man.

[Lewis Howes]

And that's something you've been doing in your health journey over the last year now, year and a half.

[Mike Todd]

About two years.

[Lewis Howes]

Two years. Because I saw you, I think it was about two years ago when I saw you last.

[Mike Todd]

Yeah, I was a little fluffier, bro. I was. I was a little more packed on a little extra weight.

[Lewis Howes]

You got some extra love on you.

[Mike Todd]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

But what allowed you to make a decision with your health, to optimize health? Because it's been a two year journey. You've been disciplined on this journey of health, was there a trauma holding you back? Was there an old pattern holding you back? Was it just life was the school.

[Mike Todd]

Of greatness Podcast I'mma be hot, humble, open and transparent. The truth of the matter was I was an emotional eater. If we won, I ate. If we lost, I ate. If somebody died, I ate. If somebody had a baby, I ate. It was like, what do you do that you are in control of that makes you feel good? Cookies and cream, ice cream, Blue bell, all that. I mean, burgers with cheese and like it was just. And it didn't matter what time of night I find myself 2 o'clock in the morning. Like, what's open? Like ice cream, like. And I was an emotional eater that I never addressed it. I never even thought about it. When I began to gain another level of success, responsibility, all of these different things. Now it gets magnified because I'm feeling it all the time. Like I'm responsible for this many people's livelihoods and people are depending on me to be inspired and be drawn closer to God and all this other stuff. And you start feeling that pressure and what do you do? You need to release.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Mike Todd]

I would have unhealthy habits that would jeopardize everything, really. Oh, well, it's how the human nature is. If you're not healthy, but you still are making great impact, what ends up happening is that great impact starts to affect you differently because it becomes a harder pressure because you do not have the vehicle or the. Yeah. Vehicle.

[Lewis Howes]

The container.

[Mike Todd]

The container to do what you need to do. So you need to find ways to.

[Lewis Howes]

Medicate, to numb, to medicate, to whatever, really.

[Mike Todd]

To release all of those words. And that's when people start making stupid decisions.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, man. What is the decisions that most people make?

[Mike Todd]

Oh, we're. I mean, it's been the same since the beginning of time. It's the girls, the gold. It's the greed. It's the, like, you start, you start. You start taking more than you're supposed to. You start investing in relationships that have no actual benefit for your life. You, you, you start, you start becoming folk. You got into it with a right motivation, and now the motivation is just money. And so it changes the heart and the content of what you're doing, because it's not about actually helping people. It's about how many people can help me. Like, when motives change, the ways that I release change. And then, I mean, we haven't even talked about the substance abuse. Like, I can't tell you how many athletes and people that I mentor and pray for and help that they're literally inebriated more than half of the day.

[Lewis Howes]

Like smoking, alcohol, drugs, whatever. Yeah.

[Mike Todd]

They're literally not remembering the life they prayed for.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Mike Todd]

They were in some locker room or somebody's mom's house, praying that they could get into this situation. And now they are so overcome with their past traumas and their current pressures that they are literally numbing themselves and saying, but I don't even remember. I don't even remember. So you're living the greatest moment of your life and you don't even remember it. And it's because this is what we do as Humans. Because I don't believe that God created our bodies to be able to handle that kind of stress and trauma. And so we have to figure out a way to keep going because we want the results of it, but we can't really keep going because it's killing us. Wow. And so we try to find ways to do it. And that's why I say the safest way to get into the place that you need to be is you need to deal with your past issues so it can change your present situation and it can prepare for you a great future.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes. Do you think we are ever able to run away from our past or our traumas?

[Mike Todd]

No. Your body keeps the score.

[Lewis Howes]

It does.

[Mike Todd]

Like, I mean, people. People act like not saying it does something. No. Your body is a computer that is taking all the information and it's storing it. Stress, hypertension, all of the. I mean, we have people dying of heart attacks at 32.

[Lewis Howes]

It's crazy.

[Mike Todd]

Like, there is so much information coming to us every day, all the time. So many ideas, so many opinions. All of those things were never a part of the core creation DNA for a human being. So you think about processing all of that and then processing processed food and then taking on all digital information. Digital information. And then worried about everybody's comments of you and how skinny and how, like, think about the stress that you, your body and your mind and your emotions is under. Not to mention that the real life stuff happens. You have a miscarriage, you lose a loved one. Covid happens, and your business has to shut down. Like, that means that something has to be prioritized and that something is not anything external. It needs to be us. We need to deal with the issues, the lies, the hurts, the layers that have made us into this person. But maybe the very thing that's tried to take us out.

[Lewis Howes]

Right?

[Mike Todd]

And so for me, I mean, I just know that part of my issue, even with food and weight and emotional eating, I need to delay. I need to talk about some stuff. I needed to.

[Lewis Howes]

What did you need to talk about? I don't know what to do. What are you talking about?

[Mike Todd]

I needed to talk about insecurities. Okay, so I talk about it in the book, but I'll just. I'll just sum it up right now. I had this revelation that I had become allergic to being good. I could only be great. I was in a situation when I was young where I was good at playing the drums at 12 years old. And I mean, I was really good. And I was in our church back at the house. And I was better than the drummer that played for our main service.

[Lewis Howes]

Like the adult, like the adult service.

[Mike Todd]

You know what I'm saying? And all I wanted at 12 years old is to play drums in the big church. That's what I called it, playing drums at the big church. And the guy who was over all the music, he was like, you are really good. And they were always giving me props and all the other stuff, but he would always let this older guy play that was not as good as me. And I would come every Tuesday, the only kid there for their rehearsals, and I'd be there with my sticks. I would come early, I'd make my parents drop me off, I'd know all the music and everything like that, but they would never let me play. And I did this for months. Like, months. I knew all the music, I knew all the songs. I was hoping that he would just fall dead and just fall off the thing and then I was able to catch it. I mean, this is in my 12 year old bond, you know what I'm saying? But like, like, I knew I could do it if somebody would just give me an opportunity. And they never let me play. And I remember being on that maroon chair. And see, this is how subtle trauma can come into your life. And this is why we have to evaluate it. I remember sitting on a maroon chair in the back and I decided that being good was not good enough. I had to be great at everything. Because if I was great, they couldn't deny me. Like, if I was great, there's no way they wouldn't let me do that. And from that day on, at 12 years old, my engine changed. I couldn't be good at anything. Okay, no, I'm not playing a game unless I'm gonna smash you. Wow. Like, I'm not. And now this now seems like at that age, it seems endearing. It's like, wow, this, this young man is, wow. He's, he's proactive and he's gifted and motivated.

[Lewis Howes]

Hungry.

[Mike Todd]

Yeah, he's hungry. Like. And so now I'm getting attention from it, and now I'm getting accolades from it. And now I'm getting. So it's like, oh, this is great. I made the right decision. Like, I'll never be good. Nothing good is good. I will only be great. So my car had to be great, my business had to be great, my wife had to be great, my family had to be great, my everything had to be great. And this served me for almost 20 years until I reached this level of success and everybody Wants me to come speak, and everybody wants me to do this. And we found out that my only son had autism. So now my wife is broken. She's depressed. I'm confused. I'm the guy that's supposed to have crazy faith, but I can't do anything about my son. He's no longer looking at us. He's not saying any words. His younger sister is developing past him. Like, he's peeing and pooping on himself every day. Like, what's going on? And now my motor is. I'm. I have somebody here that looks like me. That's not great, and it's not even good. I don't know how to process this. So now I'm going to go and I'm going to make more money. I'm going to da, da, da, da, da. But my wife needs me. I have. I have the person I've loved for my whole life sitting here saying, I don't care if we have any more money. I need my husband. I need you to sit with me. And I'm like, well, yeah, you sit there. But I got to, like. Because now my motor to be great is no longer what's going to help me. If I would have taken all the dates, if I would have kept going, I would have lost my wife and my family. I would have lost my legacy. I would have lost the thing that meant the most to me. And this is the culmination of me having to deal with, like, where did that come from? And so I was sitting with my mentor outside of Oklahoma City in a crackle barrel, and he was. He's listening to me talk, and he just. He's sitting there. His name is Tim Ross, and he has this huge pile of eggs that he's eating. He loves eggs for some reason. And I just remember seeing the eggs. And he said, so when did you have. When did you decide that your standard for this life was greater than God's? And I was like, what are you talking about? And because I'm a person of faith, we. We look at the Bible as principles and practical things that we can use to live our lives by. He said, remember in creation, it said, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth and the star, and he told the ocean how far it could come and created land and did all of these things. And he looked back at his work and he said, it's good. He created the solar system and the galaxies and all the animals. And then he looked back at it and said, that's good. And he does all this creating. On the sixth day, he creates man and woman. And he looks at him and said, this is good. He said, if God's standard is good, why is your standard great? And something inside of me was like, whoa, I can't keep living and not even appreciating all of the good that's around me because of the trauma that happened to me at 12.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Mike Todd]

And now I don't even like good. I don't even appreciate good where people would love to have good. I can't have good money. I have to have great money. I can't be good in my relationship. My relationship has to be great. I'm literally missing the essence of life and what's right in front of me. I can't even be grateful for what people would kill for because of the trauma that happened on the maroon chairs when I was 12.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Mike Todd]

And this is part of what led to me going through this healing journey and transformation so that I could really, really live life to the fullest.

[Lewis Howes]

This is a powerful story, man. And in your book on page 49, you have a little quote that says, our fruit is always connected to the root.

[Mike Todd]

Yes, sir.

[Lewis Howes]

So when you thought back to your 12 year old self, where was the fruit that was in the root of your pain?

[Mike Todd]

Yeah, so. So the fruit was. Now I'm a very successful workaholic, excellence expecting, perfectionist person, Mike Todd. But the root was. I was an insecure little boy who felt like nobody saw him. So I was gonna make sure you saw me. So now everybody will look at the fruit and be like, yay. Like, wow. Like, that is phenomenal. But the root was trauma, the root was damage.

[Lewis Howes]

And the foundation helped you get there in a sense. Yeah, yeah.

[Mike Todd]

It was motivated negatively. But if you never stop and examine it, it would have been the same thing that destroyed me.

[Lewis Howes]

Right. It helped you get to a certain level.

[Mike Todd]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

But just like the same thing that helped Mike Tyson get to world champion status is also the thing that destroyed him.

[Mike Todd]

And this is why I'm telling everybody who's listening right now, it may be time to stop and evaluate. Just because you're doing good doesn't mean you're doing good.

[Lewis Howes]

What do you think is missing for most people in order to reach some.

[Rob Bell]

Type of depth and joy, that everything you are working and striving for, you already have that so often we're working, sweating, clinging, grasping, striving to feel worthy enough. And the fundamental good news, the what's called the gospel, is the announcement that you're loved exactly as you Are. You don't have to do anything. You're already a daughter of the divine. You're already a son of the divine. You're already in. There's this great line in this story of the prodigal son where the father says, you are always with me and everything I have is yours. It's interesting when you talk about, well, what do you think about God? I think in images, I think in lines, I think in pictures, and I think in, like, dialogue, like, you are always with me and everything I have is yours. So all of the stuff that we do to feel like we measure up, that we're worth, it's all been taken care of. You're fine. Now. In response to that, let's make some stuff.

[Lewis Howes]

Let's do something.

[Rob Bell]

Let's go do something. Yeah, but then we're coming from a different place, and we're not doing this to prove something. We're not doing this to earn something. We're not doing, to somehow scratch some itch or stroke some part of the heart that desperately has been beaten down and doesn't know. You're okay. In all of your not togetherness, it's like you're all fine. All the ways you've made a mess of it. It's okay. It's okay. All the ways we've screwed it up.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Rob Bell]

We're not. It's okay.

[Lewis Howes]

Do you feel like there's anything in your life where you suffer?

[Rob Bell]

Yeah. Although I say that in light of how people really suffer. Right, of course.

[Lewis Howes]

I mean, you've got a nice home. You've got a great family.

[Rob Bell]

So I've seen too much of the.

[Lewis Howes]

World in Hollywood, you know?

[Rob Bell]

Yeah. Right, right, right. I can almost see my house.

[Lewis Howes]

Exactly. By the way, you've got things done. Well, but we all have our own inner battles.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

What are yours, if you have any.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah. I'll tell you this. The inner dialogue that says, push, push, push. It's not enough. You're still learning. You're still. You do an interview, and later I'm like, what did I answer it that way for? And that, like, that voice that always wants to be like, see, See? You don't have it. You don't have it. You don't have what it takes. You seriously want to play this game? Come on, who we kidding? Instead of, I'm here. How much fun is this? This is a gift. You get to receive it. There. There is a wonder and awe to existence. And the struggle for me is when you lose that and you feel entitled, you feel like, yeah, yeah, that's nice. But, you know, the real world. No, the real world is a place where you can have wonder and awe. Yeah, that's every day. So sitting in silence, the practices that sort of take me back to center. We're here, we're breathing. It's another day. Let's try some things. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

You've been on a journey over the last, I think, like four to six months where you've been surfing almost every day, Is that right?

[Rob Bell]

Quite a bit, yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Pretty much like four or five days a week or.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah, I probably started six years ago surfing a ton because. And at first it was like, oh, this. You know, if you have some time, what a nice hobby. What a lovely sport. And I know that the surfers who listen to you will know what I'm talking about. And then it turns into something. Something similar to oxygen, where it's. It's like practice. And I was actually. I was actually doing this event with a legendary Buddhist teacher, and I was talking about surfing. And then I was like, but I probably shouldn't say anymore because I'll just start gushing and doesn't sound right. And he's like, oh, you mean moving meditation. I was like, you have a word for this? He's like, yeah, yeah, that's a moving meditation. What you're describing is a meditation. But if I try to sit still on a couch or a cushion, it's not gonna go well. Yeah. But I move. And like, not yesterday morning, morning before last, this pod of dolphins is in the water in. In the lineup, and they're coming in among us and they're jumping all the way out of the water like this. Wow. And they're coming like me to you. So you almost like curl your toes in a touch just because they're like, plain. And the dolphin isn't like, I'm a dolphin. It's just being a dolphin and it just. Every time it does something to you, there's something that happens. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Where was this?

[Rob Bell]

Right between Monica or what? No. Yeah. North Venice, South Santa Monica. Right in.

[Lewis Howes]

The elephants are going right there.

[Rob Bell]

Oh, yeah. The other day at Topanga, there was a nice big whale went through.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, my God.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah, that's a whale is another category of experience that never. You're never like, oh, whale. And I've now seen whales for a number of years. And close one time, Kristen and I were stand up, paddling, and a whale went under her, surfaced between us, and then went under me.

[Lewis Howes]

That's terrifying.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

But it's inspiring and crazy.

[Rob Bell]

Well, it's interesting. It is like a terror that is benign. It's not going to hurt you, but it's also like the size of your house.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, my God.

[Rob Bell]

That's what strikes me about this, is we have good things, friendly things, nice things in our lives that we're used to, and then we have things that are terrifying to us. But rarely are those two things the same experience. It's both terrifying and good. Like, rarely do you experience that in the water, and then in the water with this, like, blowhole sound.

[Lewis Howes]

That's great. Yeah. Now, if it was a shark, it'd be a difference. It'd just be terrifying.

[Rob Bell]

I saw Great White Breach the other day at Sunset Point.

[Lewis Howes]

No way.

[Rob Bell]

And I had read that they were at this spot that I really like.

[Lewis Howes]

When you were surfing.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah. And this guy next to me, I was like, I wonder if what I saw, I just saw. So I look over at the guy next to me, he's like, do you see that? I was like, yeah. And he's like, I had heard there were great whites out here.

[Lewis Howes]

You stayed, of course. Oh, my gosh.

[Rob Bell]

All the other people, you know, if you want to paddle in, that's fine. It's just more waves for us.

[Lewis Howes]

Exactly. Now, what is it? What are the biggest lessons you've learned in the last, I guess, six months since you've been doing this? Pretty much daily. I know. We had a conversation.

[Rob Bell]

Oh, right, right, right.

[Lewis Howes]

Like all day until, like a certain time. And you're not.

[Rob Bell]

No. Yeah, yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

You just kind of like, take your journal.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

What's the big lessons you've learned about doing this every single day as opposed to just jumping in, kind of like the rat race of like, be on your phone, like, working all day. Do you own a business that's ready to Thrive? Let Intuit QuickBooks take things like unpaid invoices and tracking expenses off your plate.

[Mike Todd]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Rob Bell]

Yeah. Last year I finished a world tour end of November, and I was kind of cooked. Yeah, I'd been to a lot of cities and so I needed, like, okay, I need to, like, reset the whole thing. So I was like, okay. First thing I'm gonna try to do is each day, I'm not gonna enter screen land till late in the day. So I just named it Screen Land. And I'm gonna work with. I'm gonna take pen and paper with me and I'm going to just listen. Because my work is creating things. I make things and then share them. And then there comes this end of a season when I have to, like, cook it all up again and I have to stop talking. So that was probably the end of November I started. I would spend the first part of the day in silence. I'd go surfing, and then I would just sit with Pen and just note what was going on inside of me. And I wouldn't check any phone or email till like after 4pm really.

[Lewis Howes]

And you get up, you go to the beach.

[Rob Bell]

By the way, when you do this, email takes you a tenth of the time. Because one of the things about email is you're like, I don't know, should I do this? Should I not do this? What's this? When you have spent the first part of the day simply listening to who you are and what's happening, there are all these things that are coming at you that you're burning all this energy trying to figure out. But when you're coming from a different place, you're like, oh, of course I do that. Or no. And how many things come our way that our nose. But we're not at full power, strength, whatever you want to say. Clarity.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Rob Bell]

And so how many. How many times you'll, like, sit on it, and then you'll sort of. And then you're like. You realize later you said yes because you don't want the person to think less of you. You want them to like you.

[Lewis Howes]

And then you regret doing it. When the time comes, you have to do something, and then you're doing it.

[Rob Bell]

You're like, why are you doing this?

[Lewis Howes]

Is.

[Rob Bell]

Because last February, I was tired on a Thursday, and I said yes. So as I began to think through. As I began to think through, oh, the more time I Spend away from screen land. When I do enter screen land, I'm able to. To see screen land for what it is. And I'm not. That's not my path. I'm not to do that. And letting that person down is the only path forward. So let's just let them down.

[Lewis Howes]

Right.

[Rob Bell]

And I also was struck that it wasn't like we went a couple weeks and then it was like, oh, good, I'm rested. Let's go back at it. The interior is infinite. See, for many people, the universe. Does it just go on forever? Does it just push on forever? Could you just travel if you had a ship? And you could just go and go and go. So exteriors, we're comfortable with the idea that it's infinite. Or maybe there's a door that Jim Carrey goes through at the very end. But interiors are infinite. And you'd find this fascinating because you do speaking. It got like December, January. On a random day in January, sitting there, I would remember some event the previous July where I was standing in line after doing an event and somebody plugged in, you know, and. And wanted something or took something or, you know, let me feeling when. When people want a piece of you. And I would become aware of it. Oh, that was actually a deeply draining, troubling interaction. But in the moment, we got to keep going. Here we go. And I didn't spend time thinking about what that was. And that's in there. It's like we store. They talk about a pain body. We store all these experiences we have and we're carrying them around. No wonder a relationship can be hard to sustain. This person isn't even aware of the stuff they're carrying around. And this other person has got a world of wound, desire, pain, hurt, loss. And then they're trying to connect when we often aren't even connected with what's happening outside of ourselves. Yeah. And that's what's. So now I'm like four or five months in, still going every day. And now my day is completely backwards from what it used to be. I used to wake up, turn on the email, and then it's like, here we go. And now I'm like, it'll be there. It'll be there when we get to it.

[Lewis Howes]

And what's the big thing you've learned about this journey?

[Rob Bell]

Most emergencies aren't. And you feel more productive. Oh, wait. Oh, ten times more.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Rob Bell]

And that you taking good care of yourself, which is not rocket science, is the best way that you serve others. And how you just start giving Little pieces of yourself away and then wonder why you feel like a shell and it feels selfish and it feels counterintuitive and it feels like, oh, you're just. But it's actually the best way that you give yourself to the world. As you begin by whatever practices, habits, routines, rituals actually hold you together.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah. That's the thing right there.

[Lewis Howes]

Sounds nice for you, but most man, I'm probably thinking like, oh, my wife would never let me do that. You know, just go to the beach for.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah. What's interesting about your. Yeah, I'm not really at the beach every day, but I would begin with, your wife does want you fully alive and she does want you at your best. Right. So let's start there. Yeah, that might look different.

[Lewis Howes]

You also obviously have, you know, resources now and flexibility and freedom with what you've created for the last 20 years in your life. So you have those options. But.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah, but I don't, I don't spend any more like surfing. I don't spend any more time surfing than most people would spend going to the gym or something. And like my wife went back to graduate school. So our 8 year old and then our 16 year old and 18 year old, I like step into some Mr. Momming, but even then I get more done than I used to. Simply because you're taking care of yourself. Yeah, yeah. Which, and that's been a long, slow, evolving, just learning how to be at, be at the best so that we can do what we need to do.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah. If there was a. If you were the author of a new book called the Bible of Today. Right. And all the writers of these poems and letters and lectures and stories said, rob, we want there to be a new Bible and we want you to write it and we want you to do your best. Obviously this is your interpretation, but we feel like you have the keys to the kingdom to be able to write something that would help a lot of people in this world, no matter what religion, what they believe, what they don't believe. But this would be the new Bible. What do you think you would cover?

[Rob Bell]

What would I cover?

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, what would you write about? What would you cover? How long would it be to get the message across? And what would you want really people to feel at the end of reading this?

[Rob Bell]

That is a fantastic story. I would go to the poorest places in the world and interview people. What do you want? What do you need? What burns in your heart? I'd start there. I'd start with those who the system isn't working and feel Left out and at the edges, I would always. You always go. You go looking for the divine. You start there. And then I would interview scientists and artists. And then I would go interview farmers about the earth. I would interview people. What do you see? What has been your experience? Tell me about your pain. Tell me what helps. Tell me about your wounds. Tell me about your healing. Yeah. I would not write it as an abstract. I can't believe I even bought into your premise. I just realized I actually took your question seriously. Any guy who takes your question seriously should be questioned. But I would begin not with abstract intellectual ideas. I would begin with sweat and blood and wealth and poverty and strength and weakness. I'd begin there. I'd read that book. Yeah. Yeah. That's where I'd start.

[Lewis Howes]

And.

[Rob Bell]

And I would edit it together in such a way that you might, in reading those stories, think, something's going on here. Something's going on here that I could be a part of. That's how I do it.

[Lewis Howes]

When are you gonna start writing it?

[Rob Bell]

That seriously? No one has ever asked a question like that. That's a good one.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, it is.

[Rob Bell]

That's a bizarre one. I can't believe I. I think it'd.

[Lewis Howes]

Be a powerful book, actually.

[Rob Bell]

Probably all my books are, at some level, me trying to answer that question. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's this interesting line in the. I point to this, but. But there's this interesting line where Jesus says, you'll do greater things than these. And it always strikes me, I wonder, like, if there was some. If there was a Jesus who came back, I wonder if he'd be like, why are you guys still talking about me? Like, my whole point was that you'd go out and do it. I actually think some of the Bible writers would be like, why do you keep repeating me? Why do you. Thanks. Fair play. Appreciate it. But the goal was that you would carry the story forward and help the.

[Lewis Howes]

People in your time.

[Rob Bell]

Yeah, right, right. The goal would be that you would learn what you could from what we went through. But then new metaphors, new images, like, for example, artificial intelligence. This. Already you have people saying, hey, hey, wait a second. Not all progress is progress. This could come with all sorts of things attached to it that we might be really wise to just watch carefully. Well, this is new technology. This is new fire. So how will it be used? What will it do? What will it say about what it means to be human? Yeah. These are all the very questions that we're asking now, which the. I mean, they're talking about Iron. They're talking about stepping out of a cycle of despair. It's all the same sorts of questions.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, I don't think I asked you this question on the last time, so I'm going to ask it to you here. And this is called the Three Truths.

[Rob Bell]

Oh, wow. Okay.

[Lewis Howes]

I think I asked you this one. No, I started asking. I think after you came on. You've written how many books now?

[Rob Bell]

This is like the 10th or 11th.

[Lewis Howes]

10Th or 11th. Who's counting? Three New York Times bestsellers, tours, speaking everywhere, on tour with Oprah, all that good stuff, documentaries. This is, let's say, 100 years is the last day for you, right? You live for another hundred years plus, whatever, as long as you want to live. And you achieve everything you set out to do, all your dreams, you create it, you do whatever you want, you make it come true. But for whatever reason, all your work is erased. And it's not available for people to learn or read or watch anymore. But you have a piece of paper and a pen. You get to write down three truths, the three things you know to be true, the lessons that you would pass on to the people after you're gone for the whole world. This is all they see of these three lines or lessons. What would your three truths be?

[Rob Bell]

The first truth would be use the fine china. Because when Kristen and I were married, I learned that you register for two different kinds of plates. There's the everyday plates. And then. And I was just watching this as a dude who couldn't care less about any of this. And then you registered for this fine china. And the fine china is basically these boxes of really nice plates that you haul around from apartment to apartment that you use once or twice a year. And when you do use them, like, don't break them, take good care of them. And when I went through a bad burnout a number of years ago, like crashed, hit the wall, didn't know if I could work again, I sort of started to get back on my feet. I started serving my boys breakfast on the fine china because we only have today. So we're going to use the fine china because we're feasting, because we have no guarantee of tomorrow. So the first thing I'd say is use the fine china. Second thing I would say is forgive everybody for everything. And that doesn't mean condone what they did, doesn't mean brush it under the rug. It just means you have to take part in a larger flow of forgiveness because you hold on to any of that bitterness for anything anybody has done to you and it will eat you alive. You will drink rat poison and then wonder why the rat isn't dying. So forgive, forgive, forgive. And then the third thing I would write down is everything is spiritual. It's all connected. It has infinite depth. And don't ever think that all of this isn't related to every other part of it. Everything is spiritual and that's where the wonder and the awe and the mojo and the juice and the joy comes from. Those are three things.

[Lewis Howes]

Those are powerful. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy and if you are looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life. But you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to Make Money Easy book right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment. Moving forward, we have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing from feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

[Mike Todd]

Sweetheart, what about this one?

[Rob Bell]

Um nah fam, that's a little sus.

[Mike Todd]

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