How To Take Control Of Your Financial Health To Create Lasting Abundance

Summary

Podcast Summary: The School of Greatness

Episode: How To Take Control Of Your Financial Health To Create Lasting Abundance
Host: Lewis Howes
Release Date: May 23, 2025

In this empowering episode of The School of Greatness, host Lewis Howes delves deep into the realm of personal finance with financial guru Tiffany Aliche. The conversation uncovers actionable strategies to enhance financial health, foster lasting abundance, and navigate the intricate relationship between money and personal relationships. This comprehensive summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key points, insightful quotes, and practical advice for listeners seeking financial transformation.

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1. Embracing Temporary Financial Changes

Key Discussion:
Vivian Kaye initiates the conversation by addressing individuals struggling with financial instability. Tiffany Aliche emphasizes the necessity of making temporary yet impactful changes to regain financial health.

Notable Quote:

"These changes you'll have to make, they're not permanent. They're only temporary. And you are going to be uncomfortable."
— Tiffany Aliche [03:05]

Insights:

• Temporary sacrifices are essential for long-term financial stability.
• Avoid the common pitfalls of eliminating all discretionary spending; focus on high-impact adjustments instead.

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2. The Power of Asking for Raises and Demonstrating Value

Key Discussion:
Vivian explores how employees can strategically request salary increases by showcasing their contributions and value to the organization.

Notable Quote:

"Cutting out $5,000 worth of expenses is hard, but asking for a $5,000 raise happens every single day. That's not anything special."
— Tiffany Aliche [03:14]

Insights:

• Build a "brag book" to document achievements and positive feedback.
• Consistently remind employers of your contributions to remain top-of-mind for raises and promotions.
• Focus on being a valuable, likable team member to enhance recognition and reward.

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3. Building a Solid Retirement Plan

Key Discussion:
Tiffany introduces her "strip method" as a framework for financial health, emphasizing the importance of establishing an emergency fund and planning for retirement.

Notable Quote:

"S stands for savings. It's so important to get that emergency fund first. You break your leg, some bad happens to you, you need it."
— Tiffany Aliche [12:09]

Insights:

• Prioritize building an emergency fund to protect against unforeseen expenses.
• Understand the difference between good and bad debt by ranking debts based on interest rates and tackling the highest first.
• Start saving for retirement early to take advantage of tax benefits and compound growth.

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4. Investing Wisely for Long-Term Growth

Key Discussion:
The conversation shifts to smart investing practices, highlighting common mistakes and the importance of actively managing retirement funds.

Notable Quote:

"Investing is not putting cash into those accounts. It's actually buying stuff with that money."
— Tiffany Aliche [16:27]

Insights:

• Avoid letting retirement funds sit idle; actively invest in index funds, mutual funds, or other growth-oriented assets.
• Diversify investments to ensure long-term financial growth and security.
• Regularly review and adjust investment strategies to align with financial goals.

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5. Navigating the Intersection of Money and Relationships

Key Discussion:
Vivian and Tiffany delve into how financial dynamics influence personal relationships, exploring scenarios where income disparities affect intimacy and power dynamics.

Notable Quote:

"Anybody who says money does not impact your relationship is a liar."
— Tiffany Aliche [20:12]

Insights:

• Open communication about financial roles and expectations is crucial in relationships.
• Addressing and understanding each partner's financial contributions can prevent conflicts and enhance intimacy.
• Avoid using money as a transactional tool to replace emotional investments.

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6. Personal Experiences and Overcoming Financial Doubts

Key Discussion:
Tiffany shares her personal journey of earning more than her partner and the societal pressures that come with it. She emphasizes the importance of mutual support and avoiding transactional uses of money in relationships.

Notable Quote:

"But you have to talk about that for sure... The part that's really messed up is replacing emotional investment with money."
— Tiffany Aliche [25:34]

Insights:

• Redefine traditional financial roles in relationships to fit modern dynamics.
• Encourage partners to support each other's financial growth without feeling threatened by income disparities.
• Foster environments where both partners feel valued beyond their financial contributions.

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7. Entrepreneurial Insights with Alex Hormozi

Key Discussion:
Alex Hormozi joins the conversation, providing a unique perspective on building successful businesses and the psychological aspects of entrepreneurship. He highlights the importance of focus, operating within large markets, and personal growth.

Notable Quote:

"Most billionaires picked one thing... and they are in billion dollar markets."
— Alex Hormozi [33:04]

Insights:

• Focus on one core business idea within a billion-dollar market for scalable growth.
• Avoid dispersing efforts across multiple ventures; prioritize depth over breadth.
• Persist through self-doubt and surround yourself with supportive, like-minded individuals.

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8. Overcoming Money Wounds and Building Healthy Financial Behaviors

Key Discussion:
Vivian asks about addressing negative beliefs or trauma related to money. Alex emphasizes the importance of proactive financial behaviors and investing in oneself to enhance earning capacity.

Notable Quote:

"If you get rich quick, you get poor even faster."
— Alex Hormozi [58:57]

Insights:

• Adopt simple financial rules such as spending less than you earn and investing in skills.
• Focus on building and maintaining financial discipline to avoid the pitfalls of get-rich-quick schemes.
• Enhance earning capacity through continuous learning and skill development.

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9. Toxic Traits Hindering Young Men's Success

Key Discussion:
Vivian inquires about the negative traits prevalent among young men that impede their success. Alex identifies lack of accountability, entitlement, and avoidance of hard work as major obstacles.

Notable Quote:

"The second toxic trait is entitlement—believing you deserve things and that the world must accommodate you."
— Alex Hormozi [82:24]

Insights:

• Emphasize personal accountability and the willingness to make necessary sacrifices for long-term goals.
• Cultivate a mindset that rejects entitlement and embraces hard work and perseverance.
• Eliminate distractions and align daily actions with overarching personal and financial objectives.

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10. Protecting Your Reputation and Building Internal Validation

Key Discussion:
The conversation touches upon the significance of reputation in both personal and professional spheres. Alex shares strategies for maintaining a positive reputation and fostering internal validation.

Notable Quote:

"Protect your reputation with your life."
— Alex Hormozi [65:39]

Insights:

• Consistently uphold ethical standards and integrity to build and sustain a strong reputation.
• Focus on internal validation rather than seeking external approval, reducing dependency on others' perceptions.
• Understand that meaningful relationships and professional success are built on trust and consistent positive behaviors.

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Conclusion

This episode of The School of Greatness offers a wealth of knowledge for individuals aiming to enhance their financial health and cultivate meaningful relationships. Through Tiffany Aliche's practical advice and Alex Hormozi's entrepreneurial insights, listeners are equipped with the tools and mindset necessary to achieve lasting abundance and personal fulfillment. The emphasis on temporary sacrifices, strategic financial planning, honest communication in relationships, and continuous personal growth serves as a comprehensive guide for those on the journey to greatness.

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Notable Quotes Summary:

1. Tiffany Aliche [03:05]:
   "These changes you'll have to make, they're not permanent. They're only temporary. And you are going to be uncomfortable."

2. Tiffany Aliche [05:28]:
   "Make yourself a brag book... point to it in self assessments."

3. Tiffany Aliche [12:09]:
   "S stands for savings. It's so important to get that emergency fund first."

4. Tiffany Aliche [20:12]:
   "Anybody who says money does not impact your relationship is a liar."

5. Alex Hormozi [33:04]:
   "Most billionaires picked one thing... and they are in billion dollar markets."

6. Alex Hormozi [58:57]:
   "If you get rich quick, you get poor even faster."

7. Alex Hormozi [65:39]:
   "Protect your reputation with your life."

8. Alex Hormozi [82:24]:
   "The second toxic trait is entitlement—believing you deserve things and that the world must accommodate you."

These quotes encapsulate the core messages of making strategic financial changes, the importance of highlighting personal value, building robust savings and investment plans, understanding the profound impact of money on relationships, focusing on scalable business ideas, avoiding quick riches traps, safeguarding one's reputation, and eliminating toxic behaviors to unlock success.

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Final Thoughts:
Listeners are encouraged to apply these insights to their lives, embracing the necessary temporary discomforts for long-term financial stability and personal fulfillment. By incorporating strategic financial planning, fostering open and honest relationships, and committing to continuous personal growth, individuals can pave their way to greatness and lasting abundance.

Transcript

[Lewis Howes]

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[Vivian Kaye]

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[Lewis Howes]

To create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life, but you want.

[Vivian Kaye]

To make it easier, you want to.

[Lewis Howes]

Make it flow, you want to feel.

[Vivian Kaye]

Abundant, Then make sure to go to make moneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money and this moment. Moving forward. We have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned.

[Lewis Howes]

To this episode on the School of Greatness. One of the best parts about my job as a podcast host is getting to know people on a deeper level. And I love discovering the interests my guests have that they don't always talk about. You know, the world class athlete whose favorite pastime is painting, or the billionaire who still plays a weekend garage band. And the truth is, everyone has layers and people are rarely as simple as they appear on the surface. For marketers, that complexity can make the job even more challenging. After all, how can you reach your customers if you don't really know them? That's where TransUnion's marketing solutions come in. TransUnion brings clarity to marketing chaos by delivering a 360 degree view of your customer, helping you deepen your insights, accelerate your decision making, and better measure the impact of every marketing dollar. Visit transunion.comclarity to learn more. This podcast is sponsored by Northwestern Mutual. Everyone wants to feel good about their finances, right? Well, that's why I've had life insurance with Northwestern Mutual for years. Their financial professionals ask the right questions, truly listen, and help uncover opportunities most people miss. I've seen it firsthand. Northwestern Mutual has been a part of my journey from the very beginning, providing the security and peace of mind I need as a human and an entrepreneur. Find a better way to money@n m.com the Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company Milwaukee, Wisconsin paid testimonial by a Northwestern Mutual Policy owner Fuel your greatness with wonderful pistachios no shells Wonderful pistachios is a great source of protein with zero guilt. Each 1oz serv has 6 grams of protein, giving you over 10% of your daily value. Pistachios are known for their protein, power, fiber and better for you unsaturated fats for a combination that may help keep you feeling fuller longer. And now there's a new way to snack strong with unsalted no shells holding the salt, not the flavor for a snack that Packs a protein punch. Visit wonderful pistachios.com to learn more.

[Vivian Kaye]

If someone is financially sick and unwell and their financial health is unstable, what are a few strategies they can do to either increase their income or get back to financial wholeness?

[Tiffany Aliche]

I would say something that people struggle with realizing is that these changes you'll have to make, they're not permanent. They're only temporary.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes.

[Tiffany Aliche]

And you are going to be uncomfortable. It's not going to be fun. And I am very anti. Cut out the avocado toast. Don't buy the coffee. Rah, rah. Okay. I am.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

But if you are in a truly a dark, dark hole and there's no ladder to crawl out, cut it out. Like, you literally have to cut it out. You have to make some temporary changes that are very uncomfortable and to your point. Like, we focus so much on cutting out every single little discretionary cost. Do you know how hard it is to cut out $5,000 worth of expenses? You know how easy it is to ask for a $5,000 raise? A $5,000 raise happens every single day. Like that is par for the course. That's not anything special. Cutting out $5,000. You know, many coffees you have to cut out. You know how many meals you can't go out to. Do you know how many friends you might lose in that process. So, again, I think it's really, really important to be asking for that raise. And I mean, 10, 15% every single year. Are you going to get it every year? Probably not. But you get 7%, great. You get 8%, great. You got to ask.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

And you got to remind them pretty much for six months out of the year that you deserve that raise and that you want money, that you are money motivated. Because if you ask in December, when everybody else is asking for money, you're at the back of the list.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

You want to be on top of the pile when your boss starts thinking about who's getting a raise this year.

[Vivian Kaye]

What can someone do who's an employee to be really smart and intentional about getting a raise?

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

How can they show their value, their work ethic, that they're getting the results that's going to increase revenue in the business as opposed to just saying, give me a 20% raise or a 10% raise because I deserve it.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

How do they enroll through actual results, as opposed to, I just want to raise.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

Give it to me, otherwise I'm not happy.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah. So you remember those two guys on Wall Street? You got the executioners, and then you got the knife and fork, guys. So on the execution side, make yourself a brag book. So it's a literal folder.

[Vivian Kaye]

A brag book.

[Tiffany Aliche]

A brag book, razor seats, promo pitch, whatever you want to call it, just make one. It's a folder in your email, and every time something good happens to you, every time you get a pat on the back from another team member from your company, put it, forward it to that folder. A client says, wow, you know, you did such a great job, whatever, put it in that folder. Anything that good, good, that happens, you put in that folder. Because that way when you go and you have to write those really annoying self assessments, you can go back and literally look through those emails and be like, oh, oh, remember that time I did that one thing and that thing and that thing, and now you have quantifiable results that you can point to. The second piece is the knife and fork piece. There's a study and it shows that the smartest person is not the one that gets paid the most.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Tiffany Aliche]

They're like second most paid. Second or third most paid. Yeah. Being smart and being the best employee gets you to a certain point. But the person that is paid the most is the person that is essentially Mr. Or Mrs. Congeniality. You need to be liked. You need. And not so much like, you have to be agreeable and likable, but, like, people have to think of you.

[Vivian Kaye]

Like, you gotta be top of mind.

[Tiffany Aliche]

You gotta be top of mind. And you have to be, unfortunately popular around the office. So that happens by not skipping the company happy hour. That happens by joining your stupid wreck pickleball league with your boss. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you have to do those things if you really want that. And I know people listening to this might think, like, well, I have kids. I can't do the pickleball league. I can't go to the happy hour. Okay, Ask your boss to go to lunch once every three weeks. Make that time, force that time. Do the water cooler thing, because it might cause you 15 minutes. It might cost you 15 minutes of your day, and it might cost you that 15 minutes of productivity. I guarantee you nobody is going to miss that 15 minutes of your work product. But they'll remember when you told that funny joke, they'll remember that story you told about, you know, the one, you know, funny thing that happened that weekend because that is how people remember you.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

It's not about, like, oh, do you remember who closed that amazing deal last quarter? Nobody says that.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right. You know what I think about Is like, who is. Who is able to show up with just consistent, good attitude, energy, and effort consistently? Who creates the least amount of stress?

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yes.

[Vivian Kaye]

You know that I don't want to think about the challenges and the stress that is being brought to the team or to myself. But that you're just consistent. Not that you can't have a challenging day or bad stuff happens, but just overall, you got pretty good attitude.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

Pretty good energy. You're willing to show up and work hard consistently. It's like, all right, cool. You're gonna get rewarded.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

But go ahead.

[Tiffany Aliche]

No, I was gonna say it's also like doing an elevator test or a airport test. When you're looking at a resume, how many times has someone asked you about your past job experience in detail? Frankly, not that many times. You know what everybody beelines to on my resume?

[Vivian Kaye]

What's that?

[Tiffany Aliche]

They look at the very bottom and they're like, interests, activities. And they're like, oh, that's weird. I see you were at literally, that's weird. You were a cheerleader in college. And I'm like, yes. And they're like, really? And I'm like, yeah, why don't I seem so fun and bubbly and like, you know, it's the same day that I'm wearing all black and I look so, like, depressed. Or they'll look at the bottom of my resume and they're like, interesting mob movies. What's your favorite one? And I'm like, goodfellas, obviously. And then we get into a 20 minute debate and I waste 20 minutes on our interview. But you only now have 10 minutes to ask me technical questions. And if I ace those 10 minutes of questions instead of 30 minutes, I now look like a genius because every question you asked me, I got right. And then even better, like the fact that you and I now have something in common. Because you know that Goodfellas is my favorite movie. I know that the Godfather is your favorite movie. So now we're friends.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. You're more likable.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

It sounds like people hire or they give raises or opportunities to people they like more. Is that what I'm hearing you say? What was the study from? Do you remember this likability study?

[Tiffany Aliche]

I can't exactly remember.

[Vivian Kaye]

We'll have to look it up.

[Tiffany Aliche]

But it'll literally be like the first Google search. Literally, just be like, you know, smartest person doesn't get paid the most.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Tiffany Aliche]

It's been shown time and time again.

[Vivian Kaye]

It's not about being the smartest or the most technical. It's about you want to have technical skills and be smart, you got to.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Be a B plus student with an A plus personality. And that'll get you farther than being an A plus student with a B plus personality.

[Vivian Kaye]

Interesting. It's more about personality than your technical skills.

[Alex Hormozi]

That's what it sounds like.

[Vivian Kaye]

Interesting. Yeah, but you got to be competent as well.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I mean, you can't.

[Tiffany Aliche]

You can't have an A plus personality and just be like a D minus. Like, like you're still bad at the job. They don't want you around.

[Vivian Kaye]

Man, I don't know how I got here then. I was like, barely past school, you know. But it's interesting. We were just talking about this event this last weekend, and one of the speakers, Venice Van Edwards, she's like, kind of like a behavioral scientist and studies people and soft skills and all these different things. And she was like, being. If you want to be interesting as a human being, it's not about how much knowledge you know or how funny stories you tell or whatever your history. It's about how interested you are in other people. It's like your ability to listen and engage and ask more questions. And when people feel that you care about them and are interested in them, they're going to be more interested in you. And so it's, it's kind of turning the tables around where you don't need to be that smart, but you need to be present, you need to be engaging, you need to be able to have courage to ask those questions and look someone in the eyes and, you know, just have a good energy. And I think that's part of it as well. That'll take you a long way in a career. So that's what I'm hearing you say around. If you wanted to increase your income is some practical things. What about if you have a sick financial health and you're just. You're not sure where your money's at, you're not sure where you're spending your money, you're not sure how much debt you have. You're, you know, buying three lattes a day or whatever it is you. And you're just like, huh, I really don't have an emergency fund. I really don't have much savings. I don't have any investments, and I'm in debt. How can they get back to a healthy place? What are practical steps they can do?

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah, this is my you're rich BFF strip method.

[Vivian Kaye]

Ooh, strip it up.

[Tiffany Aliche]

If you want to be good with money, you got to strip. Strip So S stands for savings. It's so important to get that emergency fund first. You break your leg, some bad happens to you, you, you're going to need it.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

And if you don't have it, you're going to get worse into debt.

[Vivian Kaye]

Start with emergency fund.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Emergency fund. I like that.

[Vivian Kaye]

What do you say, six months? Three months?

[Tiffany Aliche]

If you are a singleton who rents, three to six months is totally fine. If you got a family, you got a mortgage, are a little higher, you probably want to be closer to nine to 12.

[Vivian Kaye]

Okay, cool.

[Tiffany Aliche]

T stands for total debt. And I say total debt because people think about debt as this evil thing. Not all debt is created equal. And debt with higher interest rates, things like credit card debt, when you're looking at a 22 to 25% interest rate is a lot dicier than something like federal student loan debt. You might have like a 3% interest rate on that. Like those two do not compound at the same rate. It's just math. So what you do is you rank your debt from highest to lowest interest rate and you pay it down in that order. You pay off the minimum balance of every single account on the higher one first. So you pay off the minimum balance on everything.

[Vivian Kaye]

Okay, gotcha.

[Tiffany Aliche]

But any money you have left over to pay down debt, you put towards the highest interest rate.

[Vivian Kaye]

The highest first.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yes.

[Vivian Kaye]

Even if it's got. Even if, I don't know, even if it's got the least amount or the most amount of debt, it doesn't matter.

[Tiffany Aliche]

It does not matter. Some people prefer the snowball, which is you ranking from smallest to largest balance. It's great positive reinforcement because you're starting, you're able to clear accounts faster, but you pay more interest.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Tiffany Aliche]

And I'm an Aries. I'm like really impatient.

[Vivian Kaye]

So psychologically you might be like, oh, I'm getting things done faster, but you're not. But you might be still paying more in interest later.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Correct. And we're talking about someone who does not have the money to afford that interest. So we gotta go fastest.

[Vivian Kaye]

Got it. Okay. So that, that's the total debt.

[Tiffany Aliche]

R stands for retirement. I know. You know, especially my audience. So many people are young and they're like, they're not thinking about retirement 40 years away. It's 30 years away. It's like millennial.

[Vivian Kaye]

Gen Z. Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

It will be here before you know it. And again, now I do know where the study come from. Credit Karma did a survey and over a quarter of people over the age of 59 have not a dollar save.

[Alex Hormozi]

For retirement, come on.

[Vivian Kaye]

Not a dollar over 59. 25% don't have anything to say.

[Tiffany Aliche]

27 is the actual 7%.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Not a dollar.

[Lewis Howes]

Why is that?

[Vivian Kaye]

Why do people wait so long to have, you know, zero retirement?

[Tiffany Aliche]

I think on one hand, in part it's education. It's that thought of like, I'll be young forever. Two, I will say many, many of those people are likely in lower paying jobs. They are, you know, not offered employer sponsored retirement plans. They don't know to create their own individual one. And I think things happen throughout the years.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

So like maybe you were really responsible about putting away money for retirement if you get sick.

[Alex Hormozi]

Right.

[Tiffany Aliche]

What do you like? You can't not get treated like that's, you know, it's hard.

[Vivian Kaye]

Sure.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Life happens.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

But it is important to think about retirement now. And this is my favorite part because I love tax bennies.

[Vivian Kaye]

Tax bennies.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Benny's being benefits.

[Vivian Kaye]

Okay.

[Tiffany Aliche]

You know, tax benefits, Saving for retirement, investing for retirement. You can get tax benefits.

[Vivian Kaye]

That's True.

[Tiffany Aliche]

In a 401k, a Roth 401k. In an IRA. A Roth IRA. At one point, whether the money is going in or coming out, at one point you don't have to pay taxes. And you can do that legally. The government wants you to do that. That's how it's written in the tax code to incentivize you to do it. So take advantage, don't pay those taxes. Make sure you are saving for retirement and not paying your taxes because it's legal. And I think I. Moving on from retirement is the part that everybody misses. Everybody puts their cash into those retirement accounts, into their brokerage accounts and they're like doing a great job. I'm done. That's it. But no, no, no, investing is not putting cash into those accounts. It's actually buying stuff with that money. And people forget to do this all.

[Vivian Kaye]

The time and, and buying stuff with the retirement money or with separate money?

[Tiffany Aliche]

No, with that money. So like say you have a Roth IRA and you put $5,000 into that Roth IRA. I know people who have put that money into their Roth IRA for years and they never allocated those dollars anywhere. That just sat in a cash fund and it didn't grow. And people will make comments when I make content about Roth IRAs or 401ks and they're like, well, I don't know what you're doing, but my money hasn't grown. I'm like, did you invest it? And they were like, yeah, I put it in the Roth ira. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. Did you go and buy index funds? Did you go and buy a mutual fund? Did you put your money into a Target day retirement fund?

[Vivian Kaye]

Did you do anything with that money?

[Tiffany Aliche]

With that money? The metaphor I talk about in my book is going to the grocery store. So you go to the grocery store, which is the brokerage, and you have your cash in your purse, and you walk in. Imagine just taking a lap around the grocery store and then going home and being like, why is there no food in my fridge? That's what people do. You actually have to go and buy, you know, your fruits and your veggies and a couple snacks for yourself. You have to buy those things if you want them in your house.

[Vivian Kaye]

But most people aren't aware of that, huh?

[Tiffany Aliche]

No. It's one of the biggest mistakes I see over and over again. So invest your money is the I. NP Stands for my favorite part. You got a plan? You do not get to have your happily ever after. You don't get to ride off into the sunset if you don't have a plan. You got a plan for your party?

[Vivian Kaye]

What type of plan should they be making? What's a good idea of making a plan?

[Tiffany Aliche]

I think it's so important to sit down, whether it's by yourself or with your significant other, and talk about, what does our happily ever look like? Are you and I retired in Naples, Florida? Are we retired in Naples, Italy? Because the numbers for those two don't look the same. You know, do we help our kids pay for, you know, their private education at a college, or are we saying take out loans? Do we want to have a pet? How many cars do we want to have? How many vacations a year are we taking? Are when we get married, are your parents moving into our house? Do we have to build a separate little, you know, in law suite for them? That all costs money. And if you don't know what that looks like for you, how are you going to back your way into that number?

[Vivian Kaye]

Interesting. Yeah. So creating that plan, speaking of that was great. I loved all this about getting clear on your financial health and making more.

[Lewis Howes]

But I wanted to ask you about.

[Vivian Kaye]

Intimacy, relationships, money, and power.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Let's do it.

[Vivian Kaye]

And you've been in a relationship for six, seven years, engaged for a year. But you also saw people probably go through different types of power dynamics and relationships in New York City, on Wall street, and people with lots of money.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

When you were either dating before this, the. The guys on the floor who had been married and divorced I'm sure you heard some crazy stories of people insane. And I'm sure the divorce rate is higher on Wall street than just, like, middle America. I don't know. Suburbs.

[Lewis Howes]

I don't know.

[Tiffany Aliche]

I don't know if I would say that.

[Vivian Kaye]

Really?

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

Maybe they just keep it together, but they have, like, separate wives.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Vivian Kaye]

Who does. Yeah. Three families, like, on billions.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

Oh, my gosh.

[Tiffany Aliche]

I was just gonna say dollar bill.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah, exactly. But how much does money affect intimacy and relationships? When one person has more than the other? When both have a lot. When both have a little. What have you witnessed? And personally. But also what have you experienced from your research?

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah. Anybody who says money does not impact your relationship is a liar. Okay? It is truly. Every year they do some. Somebody does a study. It's money and sex. Money and sex. One and two, one and two. They go back and forth between who's number one, who's number two. But, like, those are the top two reasons always. And imagine if true, like, physical intimacy is up there and money's right next to it. Why don't we put just as much time into maintaining the money piece as we do the physical intimacy piece.

[Vivian Kaye]

On making a relationship or marriage work, you mean? Yes.

[Tiffany Aliche]

And I think maybe this is just a phenomenon that I have witnessed, and I will say this from like a heteronormative relationship standpoint, but, like, we have a lot of guy friends who make a lot of money, and you are one of two dudes, okay? You either want a partner, truly. And, like, I know some of these guys, like their wives, girlfriends, whatever, are like the coolest, most inspirational. Like, they just have the coolest job or they always have something really exciting to talk about, like a passion project, working out. They're like, they're just, like, so cool and they're so good human beings, like, really nice. They do something. Like they just have a lot to bring. They're always the person who's like, oh, yeah, like, I brought a snack for you. I'm like, why do you have a snack for me? But it's like, they're just cool, thoughtful partners. Then there are other people who want a more. I would say with wives, it's more of like a traditional marriage. Someone who stays at home, who takes care of the home, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Tiffany Aliche]

When you choose these routes, I think it has a lot to do with having been conditioned into thinking that you need to be the provider. And I will say I think there are a lot of men out there that would not be able to handle having a significant other or a, you know, a woman's significant other who makes more money than them.

[Vivian Kaye]

Really?

[Tiffany Aliche]

100 because I think it would be emasculating for some men who are not confident in their own masculinity.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

And they're able their ability to provide in other ways that are not monetary.

[Vivian Kaye]

So do you think when a woman makes more than a man in a relationship that it eventually will fail?

[Tiffany Aliche]

No.

[Vivian Kaye]

It's possible that it works out.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yes, I do. I really do. But you have to talk about that for sure. Like, I make more than my significant other. And I asked him, I was like, does it make you uncomfortable that you know, I make more than you? Because for the first five years of our relationship, he made way more money than I did.

[Vivian Kaye]

Really?

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah. He's always made more money than I did until I started you'd rich bff. And he answered in a really, really thoughtful way. And he was like, no, why wouldn't I want you to make more money so that we can do the things we want to do faster and I can retire earlier. And I'm like, okay, sick, easy. And he's like, but on top of that, like, you can't make your partner feel bad. That's the part that's really messed up. I think, like, regardless of if you know, the guy makes more or the girl makes more. The where you'll see issues is where the partner who makes more leans on that money to replace actual emotional investment in the relationship. So, like, venmoing your partner $200 because you can't make that date that's trying to buy affection. Instead of being like, I am so sorry. And then the next day sending roses, you're still spending money, you're still getting a gift, you're saying, sorry, but it's not so transactional and gross. And then on the women's side, it's like making your partner feel bad that, like, well, I earned this money. It's like, you know, why are you going out golfing? Like, I don't think money should be, like, held over anybody's head, regardless of who you are in a relationship or if just, you know, between friends. Because that's going to negatively impact relationships no matter what.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right. I've heard this. You tell me if I'm, you know, off on this, but I've heard that extremely successful, you know, let's call them boss girls or whatever. Boss women who are, you know, running their own business, CEO is making money, you know, leading the way, building inspiring things. And also extremely attractive women don't get approached by men as much for some reason. That's what I've heard. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but that's what I've heard. It's like, if you're making a lot of money as a woman or if you're extremely attractive physically, guys are intimidated. This is what I've heard. Why do you think men are intimidated by extremely successful financial success within women or physically attractive women?

[Tiffany Aliche]

A fear of inadequacy, obviously. I mean, I don't mean to say, like, obviously you didn't think about that, but, like, I think when you see someone that you think is too good for you, whether it be through looks, through money, through anything, you would say, I'd rather quit before I try.

[Vivian Kaye]

Wow.

[Tiffany Aliche]

For that fear of rejection. Like, it's such a fact. Because we have a friend who is just 10 out of 10. Smoke Show. She's never the one that people want to talk to at the bar.

[Vivian Kaye]

Really?

[Tiffany Aliche]

She's. Oh, my God. Never. Nobody ever talks to her. She's like, in the corner. Because everybody thinks that she will be mean to them. In fact, this.

[Unknown]

This.

[Vivian Kaye]

Reject them or be mean.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Yeah. This girl is like a plus personality. Just, like, so beautiful. Like, I can only say good things, but no one ever approaches her because they think that she will instantaneously think she's too good for them. Whereas, like, if we're keeping it real, there are certainly girls who are not as conventionally attractive as this one friend. But guys feel very compelled. They're like, well, this girl and I are probably in the same league and she seems fun. I'll give this one a go. And that is just so much more approachable because they think that it's essentially like saying no to yourself or like applying for a job that you think you're unqualified for. Like, people are quitting before they try.

[Vivian Kaye]

Wow, interesting. Do you think it's harder for men to approach, you know, a smoke show of a woman, I guess, aesthetically, versus someone who's making more money than to them, or is it harder to approach someone making more money than them?

[Tiffany Aliche]

I think it's harder to approach someone who's visually attractive because it's hard to instantaneously judge being like, that woman makes more money than me. Right. I think there's also a lot of mental gymnastics that can go into it. I, I know what people say about me on the Internet. I see the comments. People are like, so stat is money. Like, it's not like I made it right? Like, it's my money, I invested it. Or oh, she's a trust fund baby. Or, you know, did she win the lotto? Or like, what ha. Like, no one ever just wants to believe that you earned your money.

[Vivian Kaye]

Wow.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Or that you deserve it. They always wanna make some excuse for themselves so that they can sleep at night. Because if they look at someone like me who has made it themselves with certain privileges that I will not deny, but who was able to do it.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

And they, in their 29 year old life have not been able to do it.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Tiffany Aliche]

They feel shortcomings and it's okay to want to work for more and strive for more, but don't ruin a good thing just because you're always trying to like, hit the next milestone. They'll come, but you could, you know, completely lose this entire journey if you don't take a second to stop them roses and stop and smell the roses.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah, that's beautiful. I love them. Those are probably the most unique three truths I've heard. I like that. Before I ask the final question, Vivian, I want to acknowledge you for your, your realness. I love this conversation. I love connecting.

[Tiffany Aliche]

Was I too honest? I hope.

[Lewis Howes]

I love it.

[Vivian Kaye]

I think it's amazing. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm excited to connect with you and to share this message and hopefully connect more and have you back on and learn more about your stuff. So I acknowledge you for, for sharing this in your authentic way. I'm curious, what is the difference between millionaires and billionaires and everyone else?

[Alex Hormozi]

Every billionaire has a few different things, but I'd say the two most common things between a millionaire to billionaire. Most billionaires picked one thing. Just one thing. Let's just go. I mean, Bob Metcalfe, Ethernet, created the Ethernet. Pretty big deal. John Paul Dejorie, he created $2 billion companies, hair care and patron tequila. Michael Hudner did ships. And all of them just have one thing that they focused on. And most of us are like, well, I'm going to do real estate and I'm going to do a little content and then I'm going to try an e commerce business.

[Vivian Kaye]

I'm going to have seven passive income streams.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, I don't. And so for me, as I've gotten older, I'm only doing appsumo. It's like I have a book. Well, my girlfriend and our baby, that's number one. And then it's like AppSumo number two, my business. And then I, Yes. I get to do YouTube, which I love making content similar to you. I have a book where I'm teaching other people how I did what I did.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I love that they did one thing. I think the second thing that's probably not recognized is they're in billion dollar markets. They're in billion dollar opportunities. So what's a billion dollar opportunity? Honestly, this is going to sound silly, but like lawn care. How many lawns are out there? You have a lawn.

[Vivian Kaye]

I have like a fake yard. Yeah. It's a lot of water here in California. So. Yeah, true.

[Alex Hormozi]

Do you have a pool?

[Vivian Kaye]

I do, yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And then you pool care. And how much do you pay your pool care person?

[Vivian Kaye]

100 bucks.

[Alex Hormozi]

So it's a weekly.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So 400 bucks a month.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So that's $5,000 a year.

[Vivian Kaye]

You get 50 pools.

[Alex Hormozi]

It's like, hey, that's a million dollar opportunity. And then so you realize like pools and certain things like can be billion dollar markets and most people. And this is something I had to.

[Vivian Kaye]

Recognize through boring businesses.

[Alex Hormozi]

Boring businesses is not. And it's not just boring, it's just billion dollar opportunities. Like, and John Paul dejoyer was a great one that I sound fascinating because he's like, find something that's in the reorder business too. So not just a billion dollar market, like shampoo billion dollar market, but people need to buy your product over and over and over again. So I think there's something fascinating. Is it a billion dollar market? Is it a product that people need? Like pool care? Doesn't have to just be tech. I come from tech world, but there's a lot of different businesses out there to create it. Like, you can make money in a lot of different ways. And that's been also fascinating with talking to all these people.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

From ships to basements, like, there's just so many different ways.

[Vivian Kaye]

A lot of ways. I'm curious. I think it was one of the interviews I saw from you where you're interviewing some guy. Maybe you'll remember who this is. And you ask him, like, what's your definition of success? And he said something like, as an adult, my adult kids still want to hang out with me on their own. Not because I have money, because they just like me. Yeah. And I was like, man, that really hit me. And I don't know, was that from your.

[Lewis Howes]

One of your.

[Alex Hormozi]

The founder of FedEx.

[Vivian Kaye]

The founder of FedEx.

[Alex Hormozi]

Of Kinkos. Kinkos.

[Vivian Kaye]

Kinkos, yeah. So do you remember what that. What that was or what that question was? I don't know if that was the exact question or what he said, but do you remember that?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, I remember him. The other person I think of when I think of success, I asked the founder, Strava. You know Strava? It's a cycling tracking app. It's like social network. Cyclists.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And this is the most unique one. I don't know. I don't think he's a billionaire, which is totally great.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Still doing really well. It's an amazing app, big business. And I asked him, I was like, what success? He's like, not waking up to an alarm. That one's I never forgot because it's such a. It means you have freedom of your time. You're a time millionaire. And the fact that you're like, I can wake up whenever I want and do the things I really want in my day, that is, to me, like, okay, I like that level of success.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. And the other guy was the founder.

[Alex Hormozi]

Of Kinko's or his founder of Kinko's. And yeah, I mean, what was shocking about his story? He sold his company 2.4 billion, became a billionaire. And the disappointing part, he was awesome. I really admire him, Mr. Ophelia. But he said he was stressed for 34 years. He's like, every day I'm stressed building that business. Yeah. He's like, is it going to work? Am I have a payroll? Do I have to do this thing? I have to fly that stuff. And I remember just being like, I don't want that. And that's the coolest part about life. I can look at Louis, I can look at Noah. I can check him out. I can be like, whose haircut do I want to try? And guess what? You create your own. You take all these different ones, and you get a piece together the haircut you want to actually wear.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

So I like seeing that. I was like, I don't want to live that life. I'm happy making less money, but doing it the way I want.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah, but for 20 years, you lived a certain level of life, building your business, making money, and there was anxiety and stress around that for a long time. Right. When did you realize, like, okay, this level of stress and, you know, emotional overwhelm and just, like, always needing to get bigger and bigger and bigger. When did you realize that no longer works for you and that you wanted to shift it?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

Maybe you knew from the beginning it doesn't work, but you were still doing it. But when did you realize, okay, this is not how I want to live the rest of my life?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. What I. For me, I'm 41, and I think you have to be stressed in your 20s. If you. There's a part of stress that's good. It's not always a bad thing. I think you have the book out there, upset of stress, saying 20s, you're figuring out your life, and you're just working your stuff. You don't know really what's happening. And then in your 30s, you're kind of a little more clear. Like, okay, I like maybe YouTube. I like promoting products. And then your 40s, for me, I find it calm. And that just takes time to find out who we really are and be patient with some process that eventually we will figure it out. And for me, Covid, I would say, is when I finally found more peace.

[Vivian Kaye]

Really?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

When most people found more stress, you found peace? Why did it. Why did Covid bring you peace?

[Alex Hormozi]

Because I recognized that how I was approaching business. I had a plan. I was like, here's what we're going to be doing. Here's our budget, here's our business, and I have a plan that I can follow. So I was part one and part two is I didn't really like how I was living. I was engaged, and it didn't work out. Really? Yeah. You know, I had my business partner had a line. He was recommended. He said to me, he's like, are you getting what you're getting? Are you getting what you want from the relationship? Yeah. Not. Not from his business partner.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right, right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Shout out Chad. He's amazing. He's from the.

[Vivian Kaye]

So you're engaged. Maybe there were some ups and downs you weren't like fully clear.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

And he asked you that question.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

Are you getting what you're giving?

[Alex Hormozi]

Are you getting what you want?

[Vivian Kaye]

What was the answer?

[Alex Hormozi]

I'm not getting what I want. And that's hard. Right? I think most of us, this is the thing I've noticed about advice, especially watching interviews and interviewing people. Most of us know the truth, they know we know our truth. It's just hard and we don't want to accept it.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Vivian Kaye]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Vivian Kaye]

And I don't know about you, but.

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[Vivian Kaye]

On the wrong people.

[Lewis Howes]

It's like reaching the pro gamers when you're actually wanted to target the programmers. That's where LinkedIn ads come in. Fortunately, LinkedIn is a network of over 1 billion businessy people who might actually be interested in your business. Whether you're looking for CEOs, marketers, IT specialists, or that one person who somehow does it all, LinkedIn lets you target by job title, industry, company size, role, seniority, skills, and even company revenue. Did I mention job title yet? Because you can target that also. So stop wasting budget on the wrong audience and start targeting the right professionals with LinkedIn ads. LinkedIn will give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. So you can try it yourself. Just go to LinkedIn.com Lewis that's LinkedIn.com Lewis. Terms and conditions apply only on LinkedIn ads.

[Alex Hormozi]

Everyone has courage. Like, I did this Ayahuasca thing, which I know is more common now, but I did it years ago. And courage to me was, I was afraid of it, but I did it anyways. And then I was still scared. And there's a whole crazy story about this, but coming out of it, I was like, oh, I realize I can do hard things and all of us can do hard things, but we have to face the hard thing.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

And we all have it in us. And so for me, with breaking up with the fiance, which was tough, and I knew what was that? Like, that was probably one of the more bigger regrets in my life that I didn't do it sooner because I wasted her time. Wasted my time.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. That's tricky.

[Alex Hormozi]

It was two years of just like, back, and everyone's gone through this. It's not unique for me, but it was two years of, okay, let's try to make it work. But I know I'm not really good for you, and I don't feel good about myself. And so it was like, eventually when Covid happened, that was. That was kind of our. We had some. Some issues that went down. And I was like, I can't do this. Like, I can't spend. It was the specific thing I thought was like, do I want 40 more years of this?

[Vivian Kaye]

Oh, man.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, that was. It was tough. And I.

[Vivian Kaye]

It's interesting, I asked myself a question in a previous relationship before. I think Esther Perel said something like, can you see yourself having 10,000 meals with this person? Like, if you're gonna have 10,000 meals with a person, do you see yourself enjoying those meals, having fun, or is it more stressful?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. And I mean, all that added up, I mean, even doing, like, this book, Million dollar weekend or YouTube and stuff, that nothing was wrong. But she is not with our relationship. She did not get excited. Like, I want to go to YouTube I like attention. And my partner now with Mafia, she's like, go on YouTube. Have fun with Lewis. Like, she's. And for me, that worked.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

My ex will find a partner that's better. And so with COVID it was like having a plan of business, breaking up with the fiance. And then I think the other part that was kind of interesting is experimenting with life. This is the same with business. It's an experiment. It's all an experiment. It's a game.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I experimented just different ways of living. I experimented finally living kind of rich. Like, I had money, but I never enjoyed it.

[Lewis Howes]

Really.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

I think we're all taught that money can't buy happiness and that you're like, if you know, you shouldn't be buying these things and don't live this way. And most of the ones who are showing that stuff are actually probably not that don't have the money for it.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

I'm poor, but like, they probably don't have the money.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Most people don't. Most rich people don't even be posting about it.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

And so I started. I rented a Malibu beach house. I rented a lake house in Austin. I started doing these things. I got like an RV for a month and I just kind of like drove around and like, hung out in the rv and I was like, wow. Having some. A nicer space to live makes me feel a lot better. And so those kind of things led me in a direction where single for a while, started doing dating coaches, had a business plan that was executing for appsumo. So I felt in control of the business. And then I felt like I'm actually going to start taking care of myself. And then I also felt like I could take care of others then too, as I was feeling better about myself and that I think the past three years I've felt much better, just been much calmer.

[Unknown]

What.

[Vivian Kaye]

What is money and relationships taught you about when you've been in a relationship that you weren't fully sure of was going to work out? What was your views around money during that time? Were you more anxious and stressed? Were you more abundant thinking, like, where were you at with money?

[Alex Hormozi]

It's easy to be abundant when you have money. I'll tell you that. It's hard when you. And that's what most people, they're struggling with money. That's why I'm like, let's talk about entrepreneurship, because that's a way of you can changing your situation, which everyone can do. And I had a friend who said, no, you're Here, and you're here where you want to be. And it's actually closer than you think.

[Unknown]

I was like, really?

[Alex Hormozi]

He's like, yeah, it's much closer than you think.

[Vivian Kaye]

You thought it was a bigger gap?

[Alex Hormozi]

I thought it's a gap. I thought there's something. I don't know. I thought there's something outside, and this is something. I think we're both. As we've gotten older, it's all inside.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Just being kind of like, hey, it's okay.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Of course, now, with my ex, it was not that there was a good or bad thing about money. It was just how we treated each other with it. Like, I didn't really spend a lot of money on myself.

[Vivian Kaye]

What did you do with your money? Because you were making money every year. Was it just compounding in a bank account? Was it in stocks? What were you doing?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, my father built his own business and then lost it to drugs and alcohol. And it was. It was a sad. Like, that's definitely. For me, I think a lot of. A lot of men, we want our fathers to recognize us, and I was fortunate. I have a great mom and a great stepfather. But for me, that. That father attachment. And I think with growing up with Jewish parents, candidly, like, we're taught to be very frugal or taught to be very practical, and it's just like, go make money. And that. That's a thing versus, like, all right, how do you enjoy life? And I think with my ex, it wasn't. She kind of made me feel bad about it. Like, why don't you spend money? Or we go to the airport. It's like $5 for a bottle of water. I'm like, I'm gonna go to the bathroom and drink from the faucet.

[Unknown]

Like, right, right.

[Alex Hormozi]

Or like, I'm just like, five bucks.

[Unknown]

It's fine.

[Alex Hormozi]

I don't care. And I'm. There's still times, but over time, you start spending in different things. Like, I bought a fancy Jaguar. I had so much regret on it.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes, you did.

[Alex Hormozi]

Oh, yeah. I hated it. I hated it. I. Dude, I. Oh, man, it was the worst. Because I don't care about nice cars. I have a 2004 Miata. I just got a new Vespa.

[Vivian Kaye]

There you go.

[Alex Hormozi]

That's a second. I do. I do have a. I have a Model Y. But it was not important to me. And I think that was interesting where she wasn't. And for both of us, she wasn't like, hey. She was like, you're being cheap. I Was like, okay. You know, it kind of, like, felt deflated versus and was like, hey, why don't we, you know, do you want to try spending these things? Can we rent it for a day? Right, right, right. So I think there's ways of actually being more positive to each other with money.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right. Wow. Do you believe in practicing gratitude and manifesting and the law of attraction? And if. If so, has that. Has that helped you attract more of the life you want?

[Alex Hormozi]

I'll tell you the part that's counterintuitive for me. So every day I write down something, I'm grateful, and almost everything I'm grateful for is silly. Like, to me, it's like, I'm grateful for electricity. I'm grateful for water.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

Hot water.

[Vivian Kaye]

I think that's silly, man.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah, those are the ones. Those are the ones I really love because it's. It's available, and it's not realizing how great life really is for all of us. I mean, if you're able to watch this, life's probably pretty good.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

Doesn't maybe feel good in this moment or maybe don't have the money. But that's also something you could change in terms of having. Candidly, I don't think I always felt worthy.

[Vivian Kaye]

Of what?

[Alex Hormozi]

Of, like, having certain things, like having a wife or having a partner or having a kid. And even with Facebook and stuff like that, I felt like, well, Zuck fired me. I'm not worthy of having a business.

[Vivian Kaye]

Really?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. I felt like, oh, this guy knows something better than I don't. And I think a lot of us feel that way, like, oh, these other people have these things. Am I actually worthy of this stuff? And how do we. You know, you talk about gratitude and vision. I think everyone can spend more time just being grateful for themselves. And how do we just actually give more kindness to ourselves? So one thing that I work on, anytime I'm kind of criticizing myself, it's like, all right, let's say one nice thing. And it kind of. What's crazy is you do that enough times. Like, criticize. Nice thing. Criticize. And we are literally the meanest people in the world to ourselves. Like, you know, your worst friend is yourself. And so how do you change that relationship over time? And now it's just kind of like, throughout my day, I'm like, dude, good job. Like, hey, you. You hung out. Louis, great job. And the more that we start doing those things, I think that's a way that, yes, you can manifest other things, but it's just really, how do we work on being nice to ourselves and that that's really helped over time.

[Vivian Kaye]

So it sounds like you were pretty self critical and you didn't feel like you had self worth or feel like you were worthy for a long time building appsumo. Yeah. But you still built an $85 million business feeling unworthy, feeling under qualified and not fully loving and accepting yourself. Is that right?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

On a scale of 1 to 10 of self worth, where would you say you were for most of those years? The first 10 years of building AppSumo?

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

One being you have very little self worth and don't believe you're deserving of any of it. The money, the success, the love, and 10 being you're deserving of all that. Where were you for most of those years?

[Alex Hormozi]

Literally until probably the past year is just very low. Like, let's talk about the book. No, no, no, no. This is good, man. Probably until literally like two years ago. Maybe fours. Threes. Fours.

[Vivian Kaye]

Threes and fours.

[Alex Hormozi]

Yeah. Like I was getting partners that would that liked me just because that's what I got. And then with AppSumo, I think I had this fear I'm going to ruin this business. So I try to pass it off and not do it. And even with this book, I had to go through my own journey of, okay, I'm going to hire tell Roz, one of the best business writers in the world and I don't have to face myself. And when all of us face these hard things in life, whether it's writing a book, whether it's relationship, whether it's starting putting yourself out there a little bit and you face some of the fears and you start just even small, the smallest thing, you're like, maybe I am worthy. Maybe I can do these things. And with AppSumo, when the previous CEO quit and I came back to work, I definitely was like, I'm ruining this business. I'm messing. And I did make a lot of mistakes, but I just stayed with it and I had great people around me. And so over time now I'm like, and I get feedback. One of the easiest things anyone can do to improve right now, really literally right now, is text someone how to kind of get better, whether it's in your relationship as an astro partner, whether it's at work as an employee or as a founder. And so it's just through working with people, getting feedback over time now I'm like, pretty good at this. I used to always, this is, I haven't really talked to this. It sounds small. I used to always call myself Chief Sumo because I never wanted to be a CEO. I never thought I was the right leader. And in the past 18 months, two years, now I'm the CEO. And so maybe for others out there, how are we labeling ourselves?

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes.

[Alex Hormozi]

And what are maybe small steps? Not that I've been big. Like, I have to go some dramatic thing that I can just do that makes me feel good about myself.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

That moves me in that direction. Same with the relationship where I didn't. I went. I worked with Stephanie Rigg. She's a woman out of Australia. Great on Instagram, really great content. And a lot of what we talked about was like, what are you doing that makes you feel good about yourself? Like, you drank last night. How did that make you feel? Like you're doing this type of activity, like you're going on this date with a girl you don't want. How'd that make you feel? Like you're showing now with, with my partner, Mafe, it's like, how am I showing up for her? Am I actually aligning my priority to my behavior? And every time I do that, I'm like, like, I cooked her some food two weeks ago. I was like, I'm proud of myself. I'm glad I could take care of you. Yeah, I'm really proud of myself. And all of us feel these different ways.

[Unknown]

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[Alex Hormozi]

Like some exclusive club where everyone's always feeling happy.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah, right.

[Alex Hormozi]

But it's doing things that make us feel good about ourselves, that frankly, it's all within our control. I over years, you realize it's not external validation. It's like, how do we get more of the internal validation and that internal person that's like, hey, I'm doing pretty damn good myself, and that's okay.

[Vivian Kaye]

Man, this is beautiful. I'm so glad you're talking about this. Have you seen the movie Creed 3?

[Alex Hormozi]

I've seen one or two. I don't know if I've seen three.

[Vivian Kaye]

Creed 3 was the most recent one. Anyway, long story short about it, the Adonis Creed, he's now world champion, all these things, has all the money. He's in the Hollywood Hills, like, living the dream, you know, most famous guy in sports or whatever it is. And he's kind of depressed. He's like, not boxing anymore. He's not like, just kind of sitting around depressed. And someone from his past comes into his life out of prison, right? Someone from his past comes, and there was some darkness that they both went through which caused this person to go to prison. That Adonis, the main character, never faced, and he was kind of always running from his pain, his past. You talked about facing yourself. I'm curious, what was the thing that you had to face that was the hardest thing in the last couple years that allowed you to have more peace and more freedom in yourself and around money, love, and relationships.

[Alex Hormozi]

Different things, man. It doesn't happen all at once. Like even taking Million Dollar Weekend as an example. You know, I've worked for Zuckerberg. I helped start Mint.com. like, I've started so many different businesses that have made millions of dollars, and I still felt afraid. Like, can I put a book out there that people actually want and can I actually even help them? And so I thought by hiring someone who's like, the best friend in the world, I cold emailed him, like, can you work on me with this book? He's like, sure. And so I paid him money, and I was like, okay, good. At least I don't have to do it. I don't have to face myself to see if I can actually write a book. And then as the book got closer to having to submit the manuscript, as you know, it goes, I. I was like, this is not. I have to face myself with this book. I have to see if I can really do it. What did you not face actually writing a lot? We wrote the book together, but it was like, is this the book that I want to put my name on? Is this a book that I can say, hey, if you're trying to start a business, there's some things about starting, building and growing that I can help you with. And so I had to face the book. I had to face myself in actually writing the book. And yes, I worked on it, you know, lightly but at a distance. And I think a lot of us do that. It's like, okay, well, let me avoid that thing. Let me avoid the relationship. Let me maybe avoid the work. And so then I basically, like. I don't know if I'd call it hermit mode, but basically, like, sat in my room and more or less for about a month, just, like, heads down, worked with beta readers. And then I was, like, working on the scripts and all these things, and I was like, slowly. And then I was going with people. So every week, we have five people going through the book at a guy living at my house. Wow. About a month ago. And through doing it, I was like, oh, I can do this. I can do this. This works. And that's. We all feel that. We all feel that in a lot of different ways. Maybe in a relationship, maybe it's with work, maybe it's with ourselves. And so kind of this. This concept lately I've been really, really embracing is like, what's the hard thing I'm avoiding and how do I go into that? So I voted the book for a while of it, and then I was like, now I'm gonna go full in. Same with AppSumo CEO. I didn't want to do it. I didn't want to do it. I wanted someone else to do it. And same thing when he quit. When I was on a bike ride, I was biking across America, and he quit, and I didn't want to come back. And he. One of my best friends was like, well, who's paying for the bike trip? I was like, appsumo. He's like, well, you should probably. And the guy who's running it doesn't want to be there. So I came back and had to face that. And, you know, the same experience. Like, it's surprising how much we're afraid of things. And when you finally do it, you're like, it wasn't as hard as I thought.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

And I'm much more capable than I realized. And that's true for everyone.

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Alex Hormozi]

And it's just thinking about what these things are.

[Vivian Kaye]

Wow.

[Unknown]

What's.

[Vivian Kaye]

What's been scarier? Recommitting to owning your CEO role in the business that you helped build, coming back to that and taking ownership or getting out of a relationship that wasn't working, to enter a new relationship and now have a baby on the way.

[Alex Hormozi]

They're both insanely hard. Both insanely hard.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Alex Hormozi]

AppSumo is definitely some of the hardest work I've ever done. And I would say by being an entrepreneur, though, I feel lucky. I feel like it's the hardest thing, but this is the part that I think I'm assuming you can resonate with. The things that are the hardest for us are also on the other side of that. The things we're most proud of. We're never not proud of ourselves when we do something hard for ourself. And I'm really proud of my work at AppSumo, where I'm like, I'm showing up. And so for everyone out there, Whether you're doing YouTube, whether it's religion, whether it's sports, whether it's a business, like, how are you showing up or in your partner? And the same thing with my partner, where it's been a challenge. You know, I'm flying to Spain. I'm staying up till 10, 11pm to work Spain hours so that I can be with her. And now that she's pregnant, it's like, okay, am I really showing up in the relationship for what she needs? And that's. Lately, it's been awesome. It's been. I'm happy to show up for those things, but it's been a journey to get to that point.

[Vivian Kaye]

If someone only has a few thousand dollars a year extra to spend on something, what's more important for them to invest it in the stock market or real estate or to invest in themselves?

[Unknown]

You know where I'm going with this one? So my favorite ism that I like is don't invest in the S&P 500. It's invest in the S&ME 500. Because you will get so much more on active income by investing the small amount you have into increasing your earning capacity than you ever like. Just think about the dollars here. So let's say that you had $1,000, all right, saved up. If you invest in Apple, whatever or you like, you'll have a 20% gain this year, a 30% gain this year. Okay, great. So now you have $1,300. But $1,000 can teach you a new lesson or a new skill that can take your earning capacity. Because if you only have $1,000 saved up, you either make very little money or you're not following the first rule, which is you got to spend way less than you make, right? And so if you're on the I don't make a lot of money part, by the way, you can still definitely save more. But if you're on the I don't make a lot of money part, then doubling your earning capacity would. By the end of the year, you might have $30,000 saved up rather than 1 or 1300. In the alternative scenario, it's not gonna be close. It's an order of magnitude. It's not close. But everyone's afraid of work, and everyone wants to get rich quick, which is why lotteries continue to make money. And so if you can just get out of that basic. Under that basic fallacy that you're somehow going to get lucky. I would rather get rich for sure and be willing to. Like, that's for me. Like, success insurance is extending the time horizon and being willing to learn skills along the way. That's success insurance. Because play out the other scenario. If you actually do hit the lottery, you also lose it because you don't have the skills to keep it. That's true. So the other path is pure fallacious thinking. It's false. It's a false dream. It's never going to result in wealth. If you get rich quick, you get poor even faster.

[Vivian Kaye]

We've already said it again.

[Unknown]

If you get rich quick, you get poor even faster.

[Vivian Kaye]

Why?

[Unknown]

Because you don't. So my favorite magic card. Hold on. I'm going to bring it back. My favorite magic card was this card called Burning Wish in the gathering. And the flavor text on the card said, she wished for a weapon, but not the skill to wield it. And I always loved that text because I thought about that as. As business as money. It's like we wish for money, but not the skill to wield it, because money is just a potential for exchange. And so if you don't know how to make it, then everything you have is just enough that's going to go down because you also don't know how to multiply it if you got lucky. Because anybody who wants to get rich quick only is relying on luck. You're relying on chance. You're gambling, you're not investing. And so if you want to play the game and the thing, and unfortunately, the tweets, the Instagram post or whatever, we see someone screenshot when they get go from $10,000 to 1.5 million, you just don't see the other hundred people or thousand people who put 10,000 and went to a dollar. And so the idea is, I want to get rich for sure. And the surefire way to get rich and the reason all these billionaires get up there and they say, hey, just invest in skills. Everyone's like, sure, it's because that's the only thing that protects you. And I come from a country, or my father comes from a country rather, where my family, everything we had, was taken from us by the government. And so it's very real that you may have to start over halfway through your life at zero. And if you do lose it all, the only thing you have is what you can do with your brains and your hands. And so my grandfather, who I was very, very close with, used to always say, you have two hands and one brain. Use them. And my father came here with $1,000 and he built the life that he has now he's a doctor. But that was only possible because he had skills. And even though everything was taken, land, houses, everything was taken, you can't take no divorce, no tax, no government can confiscate who you are and what you can do. And I see that as the ultimate freedom and independence of excellence and representation of excellence.

[Vivian Kaye]

If someone has skills but they have a bad relationship with money, or they have money wounds, or they have money beliefs that they live in fear around whenever they receive money. Are they able to earn and make a lot with those money wounds?

[Unknown]

Yeah. And so I will. I will. First off, I don't know what money wounds are, but I will, if I can define it the way I would define what you're saying is. So it's like bad money beliefs, money wounds, money trauma, bad energy, all of that I bucket into bad behaviors under specific conditions, which is that you don't know how to behave with money. That's all it is.

[Vivian Kaye]

How do people learn how to behave with money?

[Unknown]

Well, you just follow very simple rules. The first rule is that you spend less than you make, period. No questions asked. That's it.

[Vivian Kaye]

What if people have never had money and then all of a sudden, oh, I got a thousand dollars. And they're getting excited or they get scared or they get worried. How do you manage the energy that money brings to you?

[Unknown]

So I think it's thinking in ratios. So it's like, I will save this percentage. I will spend this percent. This percent goes to my house or my lodging. This goes to food, and you just have to stick with it. Now, I think that process is good to go through, but I agree that when you don't make a lot of money, what feels like a lot of sacrifice results in very low payoff. And that's why I'm bullish on. Put as much as you can in increasing your earning capacity skills. Yeah. And the thing is, you don't have to bot, so you really only have to have one skill, and then you can get every other skill you need in your life. And so when I got into the business game, the only real skill I developed quickly was sales. And I didn't even have that skill, but I had to for the gym. So I learned how to sell, and I got pretty good at it. And so I would go to these networking things. I would meet other business owners, and I felt like I was a collector of fine skills. I would find people, and I'd be like, hey, how do you get customers? And somebody would be like, oh, I'm really good at Google ppc. And I'd be like, ooh, I don't know how to do that. That sounds interesting. And so what I would do is I'd go and say, hey, what's your sales process look like? And they'd be like, oh, you know, it's okay. I'd be like, hey, do you mind if I just. Like, I'm pretty good at it, and I can walk you through what we do. Cause I might help you out. And so then this is the key part. If they said yes, which plenty of people take free work, I would then treat it as though they had paid me for, like, a ten thousand thousand dollars, like, consulting gig. I would do tons of research. I would talk to my team, I would rescript what they had, and then I would train their team on. I'll tell them how to manage it. And this is when, you know you did it right. I would present it to them as though I was, like, making a presentation. And they'd be like, dude, this is too much, man. Like, whoa. And then the magic thing comes out. They say, what can I do for you? And I'd be like, it's funny. Ask. Can you show me your PPC stuff?

[Vivian Kaye]

Right.

[Unknown]

And the thing is that they would give me less than I gave them, but it was more than I had. And so it was a net positive game. And so you only need to develop one skill, and then you can barter for everything else.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes.

[Unknown]

So, like, in the networking groups that I joined, I got voted the best, you know, the member of the year, the first year they ever had it. When I was in my fraternity back in the day, I became voted president. Like, I always. Like when I was in high school, I was editor in chief of the. Of the literary magazine and vice editor of the newspaper. Like, I always tried to, like, what can I. How can I trade what I know? How can I just keep trading up? And that's fundamentally what I've done my whole life, is just trade up. And the risk here is that let's say you do all this work, and the guy says, thanks, and then just gets off the call. Well, there's two possible scenarios. One is you're not as good as you think you are, or they don't function with reciprocity. And that's okay because, again, volatility only appears volatile with low volume.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah, you got to do it a.

[Unknown]

Lot of times if you do it 100 people, you'll get what you want. And if there's three guys who know PPC, you give to all three, and maybe one of them helps you out.

[Vivian Kaye]

Absolutely.

[Unknown]

But you're still better off than you were before. And so this is the part like this. This was how I. This is how I leapfrogged in my earning capacity.

[Vivian Kaye]

Really?

[Unknown]

Oh, 100%. And then for the people I couldn't, I would do a favor and ask to pay them. You know what I mean? Like, I would do whatever I could, and I would encourage people to. I spend so much money for one on one time. And I also think there's something very powerful about being in person and not Zoom. Yeah, I think there's something. I think that you can observe far more behaviors in person. There's so many things that are lost on Zoom.

[Vivian Kaye]

What's the most you spent on one on one time?

[Unknown]

I spent $350,000 for an hour.

[Vivian Kaye]

An hour?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

With who?

[Unknown]

Guy who's worth a 7 billion.

[Vivian Kaye]

What was the biggest lesson he taught you in that one hour?

[Unknown]

He said, protect your reputation with your life.

[Vivian Kaye]

Did you need to spend 350 grand for that?

[Unknown]

I think that there's something powerful about knowing that someone who is much further ahead says it to you. And it's not that that advice is something you haven't heard before, but it's the advice that you needed to hear right now. And that was what I needed to hear.

[Vivian Kaye]

Wow. Protect your reputation with your life. What does that look like? And how does one do that when anyone can speak about them negatively online and say what they want and make.

[Unknown]

Stuff up, or you can only control what you do? And so the stoic approach to this is that you know the truth and, you know, there's the whole, like, you know, bad, bad news, lies get out of. Get around the world before, you know, the truth gets out of bed. But I see lies a lot. So Warren Buffett says this about the stock market. He says, in the short term, it's a popularity contest. In the long term, it's a weighing system. I see reputation the same way, which is, in the short term, somebody could make some viral thing about you, or they make some piece of content, some hit piece, whatever it is. But if you do right by the values that you have on a long enough time horizon, you touch enough people, the surface area of your reputation compounds. Because it's not just that you do business with one person, but as soon as. Because if you do grow in your reputation, then more people will ask about you to the people who have met you, and then they will give you. They will give their opinion. Just kind of like the movie before or the restaurant. Yeah, exactly. And so if every person who has done business with you is like, he's tough to affair, or like, he's very ethical, or like, you know what? I would trust him with money. You know what I mean? If you have that core set of beliefs and you behave consistent with that, those bundled terms, I want people to think these things about me. What are the behaviors I have to do in order to get them to think that. I'll give you a story about this. So when I was in college, I had a bad reputation with women. In my freshman year, I went from high school where it was small, you know, small pond. And I kind of ruined my reputation there. And so I went to, like, a new area where, like, no one knew me. And I was like, oh, this is like, it's like virgin land, right? Not with the pun intended. But I went to college, and I very quickly got the same reputation in weeks. Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

Oh, wow.

[Unknown]

And so I went home depressed, and I went to my dad, and I was like, man, I was like, how do I get all these people to stop saying that? I'm a man whore or whatever, and that I'm just like this guy who just goes around and sleeps with girls because it's preventing me from sleeping with. And he said, and I had all these ideas of, like, maybe I could do this or I could, like, I had all these, like, strategies. And he said, have you considered not actually acting like a whore, not sleeping with women?

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

And I was like, no, no, it can't be that. And so, but it's like, as a kid, like you, you know, for the parents, they are listening, right. I dismissed it immediately. But, you know, on the, on the flight back and in thinking when I'm, you know, sitting there alone in my dorm, I was like, maybe I do need to just stop acting this way. And so what ended up happening is I decided I was like, I'm going to be someone that I want to be proud of. I want to be proud to associate me with me because I want a different caliber of girls. And that caliber of girl is not going to go for this, you know, this guy who's always chatting up like, I want a good quality girl, not just hop. A good character. And it took basically two full semesters of me acting like a priest, basically, and just like, doing well in school, studying hard, just, you know, being a contributing member of society that all of a sudden, like, the reputation started to change. But like, the new balanced reputation, it took time.

[Vivian Kaye]

It did. Yeah.

[Unknown]

And so it's like there's this period of time that you have to go through and be willing, because right now you are living through consequences of actions you took last year, five years ago. And so you have to be able to split it without getting the reward for it. And that's the hard part, and that's the part that no one's willing to go through.

[Vivian Kaye]

And the longer people know you for one set of characteristics, the longer it's going to take for them to unlearn that.

[Unknown]

This is a really good point. So the reason I think it's so hard for people back home, right? So for anybody who's ever left home and you go back and people treat you a certain way.

[Vivian Kaye]

Because I knew you for 20 years.

[Unknown]

Exactly. And what's interesting is imagine over. Imagine you went to high school with somebody in middle school. All right? So it's like they had eight years with you, and they had every single day, they had hours and hours of exposure. You go back and they have two days a year during the holidays to see you. Well, it's like, okay, well, two days out of 10,000 were this way.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Unknown]

It's almost never going to outweigh it. I've given a lot of thought to this because I was like, why can't I change everyone's mind? Because I have changed so much. But the reality was that the exposure required to change their perception of me was greater than the time that I was willing to dedicate to it.

[Vivian Kaye]

You need to spend two or three years with them now to show up as you are. Not two days.

[Unknown]

Exactly. And then the trade off is, is it worth it?

[Vivian Kaye]

No. Well, I don't have any childhood friends anymore, of course.

[Unknown]

And then I'll make this point to anybody who's in that situation where you're like, man, I don't want to be like these people. I don't want to be like my friends that I have right now is that you have to be willing to accept that you may lose those friends, or you probably will lose those friends, but you will gain many more with the caliber of person that you want to become. And you'll get caliber of friends that match it. But there is a transition period where you'll have neither.

[Vivian Kaye]

It's tough, man. For about a decade, I felt like I didn't have many friends. I felt like all my childhood high school, college friends, they didn't want to hang out or when we hung out, they didn't really understand me. And they were kind of judging me. And it felt like, why are they always talking weird about me behind my back? Why am I not invited anymore to stuff? It's kind of hurtful, right?

[Unknown]

Totally.

[Vivian Kaye]

But at the same time, those, I guess, childhood friends that I maybe do have or I talked to once in a blue moon, they've chosen to accept the person I've become and appreciate who I still am, not expect me to be who they once knew. And I can respect them for that and not judge them on their journey and just accept them for being a friend.

[Unknown]

Yeah. And I think, well, two parts. One is the people who hate it or the people who don't accept the new version of you. They downplay your success for being willing to take a risk that they were unwilling to take because your success makes them feel bad. Whether they say it or not, it does. Because humans are comparative creatures. We look at one another. That's. I mean, we learn through modeling. We see what someone else does. And if they did something that we aren't willing to do and they have something that we don't have, we start not liking them. Because what does that mean about me and so the. What does that mean about me? It's much easier to say he's changed and he sucks now, rather than saying, I didn't and I suck so hard. Because the people who don't know how to say, you've grown say you've changed, and they say it like it's a bad thing. And I think the eve. The simple response to that is, and you have it. And I think it's being willing to sit in that and be like, I'm okay with this. And I have lost almost every friend. Or rather, I could say I have actively cut off every friend that I've had, you know, from the beginning. I have one friend that I still have from middle school. One friend, but basically no one else. And that one friend is because he is a champion. Like, he's a cheerleader. He has a different life. But he's just like, dude, go.

[Vivian Kaye]

He's not criticizing you. He's not judging you. He's like, you're amazing.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Vivian Kaye]

And you keep him in his life in your life.

[Unknown]

And he's also not a money guy. He's an FBI agent. And so he's exceptional at what he does. It's just not money related. So we have this perfect thing where neither of us. We have no competitive overlap. So I'm like, how many drug rings did you bust this month? Oh, dude, let me tell you, these Syrians, I was this whole gang I took down, you know, like. And so I get to hear this whole thing. He's like, what deals have you done? And because he, you know, we get to kind of live vicariously, but those relationships are rare. And if you find somebody who speaks well of you behind your back and talks to you to your face, those are the friends that are worth keeping.

[Vivian Kaye]

Amen.

[Unknown]

And if you can find somebody who can do both of those without flipping every conversation and making it about themselves, I think you have somebody who's worth keeping. But most people don't even meet one of those criteria, let alone all three.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. Speaking of young men and ourselves, when we were younger, what would you say are three brutal truths that young men need to hear in order to become more successful in life?

[Unknown]

You have to be willing to trade the things you love right now for the things you want. And you may not like the price of what you want, but you can't change the price. And so there's all this groveling that goes back and forth for younger men of, like, basically wishing it didn't cost this much time or cost as much failure or cost as much risk in order to get to where they want to go. And so they basically stomp their heels and then, you know, retreat inwards into their basement and video games and whatever else, rather than confronting their own inadequacy. Because the first thing you have to do is say, it's my fault. Everything that I have in my life is my fault. But if it's your fault, it's also under your control to change, because you cannot change what you do not control. And so to me, it's taking full accountability. So that's number one. The second thing is if you want to change your behavior, change your conditions. And so one of the most powerful things that you can do is change who you surround yourself with and where you live. And so if you have an environment of people around you who speak ill of you or, like, basically reinforce the wrong traits and the wrong actions. There's a reason I left Baltimore, and there's a reason you left.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah, yeah.

[Unknown]

As I went to where I thought I was like, I want to get into fitness. And so I was between Miami and Southern California. I was like, those are kind of the fitness capitals. I'm going to go to one of those places because I want to do fitness and I want to be around the best. And so Baltimore is not the capital fitness. And so me changing my environment allowed me basically a blank slate to start behaving the way that I wanted without interference. Because a lot of people have interference in their surroundings. And so I think it's a lot of times you have to. Well, I think this leads to the third thing. So you change your environment. That's number two. The third is delete everything that is not getting you closer to your goals. And so I have used that. This razor has not changed in my life, which is probably the two most often asked questions that I have that I like, mentally think. I probably think of 10 times, 20 times a day is number one. Does this action, this person, this decision increase or decrease the likelihood that I achieve my goals? Yes or no, does it increase or decrease? Does this friend who always wants to go out. Does you playing fantasy football increase or decrease the likelihood that you hit your goals? And that is just. It's black and white. It's pretty like, you know, it's pretty like, you know, now you can make the whole, like, but shouldn't I have a. I'm talking about winning. If you want to talk about. Talk about fulfillment and all the joy and all that stuff, like, I'm not the guy for that.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah, yeah. Because Fulfillment is winning for you. For me, that's your hobby. Your hobby is winning. Where some people have hobbies for joy and fulfillment, you have hobbies which are to win.

[Unknown]

I like looking back and enjoy because memories pay dividends in the future. And so suffering lasts only for a moment, but the memory of the achievement lasts forever. And for me, I love looking back on what I've done only insofar as it excites me about what's to come. So delete everything using that question. And the second question, which is my. It might be my favorite question. It might be my favorite question in general, which is, what would it take? And the reason I love that question is because it assumes success. So if you go up to some girl who's way out of your league and you're like, what would it take? It assumes that she's going to go out with you, or she's going to.

[Vivian Kaye]

Say, you need to make this much. You need to do this. You need this. And she's going to give you the answer. And then, do you want to pay that price?

[Unknown]

Exactly. Either you don't like the shoes or you don't like the price. You got to pay it if you want it. And so what would it take? And it's like, hey, if we have a deal that we're working on, what would it take? Now, you can make the decision whether the price tag's worth it, but at least you learn the price. What I have found in my life is that when I try to answer those questions, like, what would it take for me to be number one in this field? What would it take for us to lead this market? What would it take for me to be the best salesman in this company? The answers are not as crazy as you'd think. A lot of people spend most of their time answering questions not worth answering. It's playing games that are worth playing. It's like, if you play stupid, stupid games, you win stupid prizes. And so no one asks the question before they play the game, is this game worth it? And so when you ask the question of, like, what. What is the big goal? And what would it take? Then you just get to solve for it. And to me, it's just great. If I know what it is, then either I have those resources or I have to use my resourcefulness to get them.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes.

[Unknown]

But it's under my control. And these are how the big leaps in my life have occurred. When I wanted to get in the gym business, I was like, okay, what would make it the highest likelihood that I Hit my goals. So what I did was I joined. I said, I'd say $50,000. 23 years old. I lived on nothing. I said, $50,000. And I traveled to California because I was like, all the best fitness people are here. Then I joined a gym mastermind of all gym owners. I didn't own a gym. I joined a gym mastermind without owning a gym. And he was like, you sure? And I was like, yeah. He's like, why? I was like, well, I figure I'll learn from everyone else's mistakes before I start. Smart, right? So the first thing I said is like, where do you guys open? One guy's, oh, I have a terrible location. I wouldn't done this. Another guy's like, oh. And then the guys who had the best locations, like, what was it? Okay, well, how many square feet should I have? Oh, how should I organize the gym? What equipment should I buy or lease?

[Vivian Kaye]

My.

[Unknown]

I thought I was gonna. They're like, oh, don't buy those. They're really expensive. I thought I was gonna use them. No one uses them. Oh, yeah, girls trip on those. Don't use them. And so I. So I was like, uh huh huh. I was just taking all these notes. And so then I was like, okay, if I'm around the best gym owners and I'm learning from them, then I can be at year 10 in my career on my first year, because if I do what the best people did, I will get what the best people got. And so I've always just focused on, what did they do? Forget the energy, forget the manifestation, forget the vibrations and the frequency. What did they do? I will do that. And not only will I do that, I'll do way more of it, because I don't want to just pace them. I want to beat them.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yes.

[Unknown]

And so, like, Kobe, it's like, if he's working out, if the best guy's working out twice a day, he's like, well, I got to work out three times a day because they're already ahead of me. So if I'm working out twice a day and they're working out twice a day, then we're going to advance at the same pace. But I got to work out three times a day. If this guy's doing $100 a day ad spend, I got to spend $500 a day. If this guy's Doing one piece of content, I got to make 10 because he's better at it than I am. So I have to make 10 just to make up for my skill deficiency. And so again, this volatility is a consequence of volume is that you're typically just not doing enough. And the people who outwork you, they out output you. And I'll give you a really simple example that will demonstrate this, that it's very real. So in a company. So I just took over operating one of the divisions on the media side. And the first day I came in, I was like, okay, so what are we going to do? And so they're like this. I was like, okay, what are we going to get it done by? And they're like, next meeting. Which is like the next Monday is a weekly meeting. And I was like, okay, how many hours does that take? They were like, I don't know, probably four hours to do this thing.

[Vivian Kaye]

Can we do it today?

[Unknown]

Exactly. And then I was like, okay, well it's noon, let's meet at 4. I'll give you an extra hour and show me what you did. And then we met. Four hours later, it was done. And I was like, okay, well what can you do tonight so that we can do tomorrow morning? And he said this thing. So we just moved the buck along. And in three days we did three months of work. Because if you think there was 12 actions that had happened and you had a one week cadence in a very real way, we moved to forward at 20 times the pace. And so a lot of people think that, like it's not speed of activity, it's elimination of waste. There's all these other things that people are distracting, they're distracting themselves with. And so if you were that young man, you have to recognize the trade offs that you have to be willing to make. You have to change your environment so you can change your behavior. And you have to delete everything. That's not the thing that you want most. And if you can't decide what you want most, then that's what you need to do first. But once you know what you want, then go get it.

[Vivian Kaye]

Yeah. Then what do you think are the most toxic traits that young men have today that are holding them back?

[Unknown]

So if we define traits as bundled terms, right? Which means that there's just series of behaviors that bundle into one word, convenient for communication, hard for training, is that, you know what, there's actually just a hundred small skills that you need. And I think demystifying this makes it easier. So it's like, I want to be confident. Well, confident is an approximation of how statistically likely something is to occur. So in statistics, you have a confidence metric. How likely is this thing to occur. And so if you want to be more confident, it means you need to do enough repetitions that you can make a statistical prediction that it's likely. If I go up on stage 100 times in a row, I do the same prediction presentation. And I get up there like, how are you so confident? I'm like, because I've done this a hundred times, and I know how this is going to go because I've done it before. And so people want the confidence before the reps. But especially in confidence, the proof comes before the pudding. You have to do the reps before people are like, wow. Because you can't fake. I mean, you can fake confidence people to yourself. You'll know. And as far as I'm concerned, in life, I'm the only one I'm trying to impress. And so if I know I'm fake, I'm the one who, in the middle of the night is looking up, being like, I can't believe I'm so full. I would hate that. It's an empty life. It's also living for other people. And so if the toxic trait is people wanting the outcome without the repetition. Right. So without the price, that's how I say that's number one. The. Let me see. What are they saying? I'm trying to think of, like, a really specific thing. Well, the second one has everything to do. It's an offshoot, but it's entitlement. Right. Is fundamentally believing you deserve things and that the world must accommodate you.

[Vivian Kaye]

Why do so many people have that belief?

[Unknown]

I think parenting in the school system has made it so that you can have a safe room and you can have a cry corner. And if you think that one plus one is five, that's. That's. This is emotionally safe for you. I don't want you to feel. It's like. But you're gonna. The thing is, is you can't change reality.

[Vivian Kaye]

All right?

[Unknown]

And so you can believe whatever you want, but if your actions aren't aligned with how the world works, you're not gonna get what you want. And you're gonna be very upset for a long time until you figure out that the universe doesn't bend your will.

[Vivian Kaye]

Like, does it bend to your will, though?

[Unknown]

No.

[Vivian Kaye]

But if you do a set sort of actions, it starts to bend.

[Unknown]

I play within. I play within. I play within the realm of reality.

[Vivian Kaye]

But it bends to your will. Once you do the actions that it wants you to create for you to get the results you want, I think.

[Unknown]

That the universe is. I don't anthropomorphize it. So I don't humanize it and say anything.

[Vivian Kaye]

But because of the actions you took over the last 20 years, you were able to create extraordinary results.

[Unknown]

Yes, based on reality. If I had said I want to become the best business guy and then sung songs every day, that's not going to be a line. Now I can manifest all I want, but that's not going to be the thing that makes me the best businessman. And so I don't get to set those rules, but I can play by them. And I think a lot of people, a lot of men specifically, waste a tremendous amount of time stomping their feet demanding that the world be different than it is. And so to me, that's a loser's mentality. And they then spend more time defending their excuses than defending their ambitions.

[Lewis Howes]

I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a free full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from the you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

[Unknown]

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