Josh Groban Gets Vulnerable: "I felt like a talentless piece of SH*T!" How He Battled Inner Demons & Found Happiness

Summary

Podcast Summary:

The School of Greatness with Lewis Howes
Episode: Josh Groban Gets Vulnerable: "I felt like a talentless piece of SH*T!" How He Battled Inner Demons & Found Happiness
Date: September 1, 2025

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Main Theme

In this episode, host Lewis Howes welcomes Josh Groban, internationally acclaimed singer and Broadway star, for a deeply honest and vulnerable conversation about the emotional costs and pressures of early fame, overcoming self-doubt, and finding authentic happiness. Groban candidly discusses how he battled his “inner demons,” the identity crisis that accompanied midlife, and the surprising peace he found by letting go of perfectionism, embracing the present, and reconnecting with what truly matters: family, simplicity, and service.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Price and Pressure of Early Fame

• Josh reflects on the “hyperspeed” nature of his rise and the expectations placed on him from his teens.
• He shares how gratitude was present, but joy and confidence were often elusive due to a near-constant fear of failure.
  • "I was happy that others were happy…But I was never able to break through the ceiling to joy." (08:13–09:00)
• The moment with Celine Dion at age 17 was both pivotal and overwhelming:
  • “My dad had a video camera …I look back at it now and I think, wow, that was a moment where I was terrified. …Even after that…did I do okay? Did I…Was David happy?” (10:00–11:10)
• Josh almost turned down the opportunity to sing with Celine due to self-doubt.
• Describes the duality of craving the humility and learning of college yet being thrust into high-stakes professional performance ("I wanted to be a student…I wanted to get into the mud and have the permission to be bad…Being over in this corner was actually really isolating.” 14:00-15:00).

2. Chasing Success vs. Being Present

• Josh discusses always being focused on the next big thing, often missing out on the present moment (04:43–06:44).
• Therapy and slowing down allowed him to finally bottle "the goodness of what's right here" (06:44–08:01).
  • “...what is life but to capture and bottle the good moments when you can get them…there was very little time to think about what’s here.” (05:00–06:44)
• Recalls emotional clarity during a week with family, recognizing the importance of those simple, grounded moments.

3. Confidence, Self-Doubt, and Mental Health

• Early confidence was limited; he focused on perceived shortcomings even amid overwhelming success (16:23–19:09).
  • “It was like I was a lawyer in my own head defending the demons, like, you see…here you are, yes, I rest my case.” (17:35–18:00)
• Experience—not accolades—eventually brought confidence. “You aren’t ever going to kill the doubt …what I can do is …use the tool I need to get through this bad moment.” (19:00–19:09)
• Shares the importance of simple, back-to-basics tools (19:21–22:20) for managing nerves:
  • “I’m just thinking about singing and telling the story of this word and the line that’s in front of me right this second…” (21:15)

4. Duality of Public Success and Private Struggle

• Reveals he’s sometimes felt worst internally during his greatest triumphs (25:27–27:55), often caught in a "shame spiral of self criticism."
  • “There have been moments where I have been going through my own mental health journey on stage…so polar opposite from the experience that the audience is getting.” (25:27–26:00)
• Post-show, he frequently goes into “low power mode” out of emotional exhaustion and self-protection from disappointment (27:55–28:18).

5. Lessons from the Early Years & the Power of Innocence

• Josh gives “reverse advice”—expressing he now has more to learn from his 16-year-old self’s innocence than advice to offer that kid (32:01):
  • “I actually can think of more things I’d like that kid to tell me at 44 than things I want to tell that kid as a 44-year-old.” (32:03)
• Describes the absence of high expectations then, allowing fun and a lack of pressure—traits he now strives to rediscover (35:58–36:28).

6. Creativity, Expectations, and Side Quests

• Advocates taking “side quests” and developing hobbies outside of work to rejuvenate joy and creativity (37:04–39:56).
• Importance of doing things not for an audience, label, or fans, but simply for oneself—sometimes those become the most successful projects.

7. Letting Go and Following the “Goosebumps”

• The most valuable creative choices come by following what lights “the fire”—not what is expected or for a specific result (41:38–43:23).
  • “Go where the goosebumps are.” (41:12)
• Reframes his pursuit: now it’s about chasing the feeling, not just the results.

8. The Role of Relationships and Support

• Cites parents, teachers, and particularly his current partner for helping him process self-criticism and teaching him “not to care so much what other people think” (58:29).
• The power of having someone who encourages vulnerability and authenticity—“keeping me where the light is” (59:00).

9. Service, Legacy, and Philanthropy

• Groban’s “Find Your Light Foundation” supports arts education for youth (64:49–71:10).
  • “Putting whatever power and influence I can into raising awareness for those programs…is finding a legacy for my foundation.” (60:09–62:06)
• Affirms arts education is transformative—the smallest investment makes a great impact on developing confidence and hope in kids.

10. Redefining Success & Greatness

• For Josh, success is now about impact, service, and authenticity—not external validation.
  • “The more that you put into connectivity and kindness…the more you get back.” (79:23)
  • “Stay scared. Stay a student.” (80:42)
  • “Greatness…is when you can be looked at by those around you… as being somebody that they aspire to be or look up to … even when nobody was looking.” (80:47–81:59)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “At the end of the day… what is life but to capture and bottle the good moments when you can get them.”
  — Josh Groban, (06:00)
• “Your demons are having a party and you still made it through and did great…”
  — Josh Groban, describing how experience builds confidence through adversity (18:00)
• “You aren't ever going to kill the doubt…but you can use the tool you need to get through this bad moment.”
  — Josh Groban, (19:00)
• “When you decide to do something that’s not for them, you do it for everyone.”
  — Josh Groban, on authenticity in creativity (40:03)
• “Go where the goosebumps are.”
  — Josh Groban, creative mantra (41:12)
• “I have more to learn from that kid now than I have advice to give that kid.”
  — Josh Groban, on reverse mentorship from his younger self (32:01)
• “The love you make is equal to the love you take. Every moment that you can to express kindness to other people comes back at you.”
  — Josh Groban, Three Truths (79:23–80:42)
• “Stay scared. Stay a student.”
  — Josh Groban, Three Truths (80:42)
• “Greatness…is when you can be looked at by those around you…as somebody that they aspire to be or look up to…even when nobody was looking.”
  — Josh Groban, (80:47–81:59)

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Important Timestamps

• Early Fame & Performance Anxiety: 04:27–09:40
• Celine Dion Story / Being Discovered: 09:43–11:46
• College vs. Stardom / Split Path: 13:12–16:00
• Confidence & Coping with Doubt: 16:48–19:09
• Psychological Tools for Doubt: 19:21–22:20
• Public Triumph, Private Spiral: 25:27–28:18, 27:55–28:18
• Reverse Advice: Learning from His Younger Self: 32:01–36:28
• On Hobbies & Side Quests: 37:04–41:38, 48:50–52:53 (collecting baseball cards, magic tricks, cereal nostalgia)
• Creativity: Following the Feeling: 41:38–43:23
• Philanthropy / Find Your Light Foundation: 64:49–71:14
• Redefining Success, Three Truths, & Greatness: 79:23–81:59

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Additional Highlights

• Hobbies Matter: Josh opens up about finding genuine joy in magic tricks and baseball card collecting – simple acts that transport him back to childhood wonder and “chasing joy instead of chasing success.” (48:50–52:53)
• The Role of Arts Education: Emphasizes how a small grant can “keep the lights on” for a whole school program—demonstrating the foundational importance of creative expression in youth development.
• Action & Giving Back: Encourages listeners to support www.fylf.org (Find Your Light Foundation) and details how even small donations have a multiplied impact (68:57–70:15).

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Summary Takeaways

• Presence over Perfection: True peace and clarity come not from chasing ever-bigger wins, but from slowing down and savoring the present.
• Experience Trumps Doubt: Confidence is not the absence of self-doubt, but knowing you have the tools to handle it as you gain experience.
• Hobbies & Service Reinvent the Soul: Rediscovering childlike joy and helping others center a fulfilling life.
• Authenticity Magnetizes Success: By focusing on what lights a personal fire—not what is expected—Josh finds this often ends up serving (and connecting with) others best.
• Legacy is Service: The most lasting mark is the difference one makes for others, particularly in empowering the next generation of creators.

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This episode is a deeply humanizing window into the emotional journey behind fame. Josh Groban’s insights are both a toolkit and a balm for anyone whose inner critic overshadows their achievements, and a reminder that fulfillment is found by “bottling the good moments,” staying a student, and shifting from chasing success to chasing joy.

Transcript

[Lewis Howes]

We just confirmed that Andrew Huberman is coming to the Summit of Greatness. Along with some other amazing speakers. We've got Dr. Tara Swart, Brenda Burchard, Gabby Bernstein, Amy Purdy, and some huge entertainers and performers. Make sure to get your tickets right now. Summoned Up Greatness is happening September 12th and 13th here in Hollywood. I can't wait to see you there. Welcome back, my friend, to the School of Greatness. We have a inspirational human being on today. His name is Josh Groban and he opens up on how he stopped chasing success and found real happiness after global fame as a young man. And Josh opens up about the pressures of early fame, the midlife identity crisis he's faced, and how therapy, gratitude and starting to slow down helped him reconnect with what truly matters. He has sold out arenas from around the world and opens up about this process of always needing to be perfect and live up to expectations and the pressures that other people put on him in his teens and his twenties and how that helped him in some ways, but also how it hurt him in other ways and how he's tried to reconnect to his true authentic heart and himself. Why the pursuit of the next big thing can leave you feeling empty if you're not being present. For me, I reflect on this as well in my life because I'm going after big dreams and goals and in moments I could get obsessed about what's happening in the future and miss out on the moments today. And so these are great reminders for me as well as an interviewer. Being around someone like Josh and other top performers like Josh, it's just important for us to continue to listen and hear these stories and be reminded so we can hopefully use these lessons in our life. We talk about why true peace often comes when you stop chasing and start appreciating life and so much more. And if you're enjoying this, make sure to share this with a friend or two. Just text them or post them in a WhatsApp group chat. And also make sure to subscribe over on Apple Podcast or Spotify wherever you're listening to your show. And without further ado, let's let's go ahead and dive into this episode with the one and only, the inspiring Josh Groban. One of the best parts about my job as a podcast host is getting to know people on a deeper level. And I love discovering the interests my guests have that they don't always talk about. You know, the world class athlete whose favorite pastime is painting, or the billionaire who still plays a weekend garage band. And the truth is, everyone has layers, and people are rarely as simple as they appear on the surface. But for marketers, that complexity can make the job even more challenging. After all, how can you reach your customers if you don't really know them? That's where TransUnion's marketing solutions come in. TransUnion brings clarity to marketing chaos by delivering a 360 degree view of your customer, helping you deepen your insights, accelerate your decision making, and better measure the impact of every marketing dollar. Visit transunion.comclarity to learn more.

[Josh Groban]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Josh Groban]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Josh Groban]

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[Lewis Howes]

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[Josh Groban]

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[Josh Groban]

Yeah, I mean, you're catching me caffeinated, so I've got a real good flow going right now.

[Lewis Howes]

But your energy seems very calm and you know, when you're chasing success, I'm speaking for all of us. It's like you're driven to like, what's the next thing? What's the next thing versus what's the now thing.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, exactly. Right.

[Lewis Howes]

And it looks like you're in a now place.

[Josh Groban]

Well, you know, I've always been, you know, admittedly really kind of not skeptical because I know how important and, and truthful it is. But I've always been a little bit of like, I'm not sure that's for me though, about like the power of now and about like, you know, thinking about, you know, stopping in the present. And I've, I've read all about, you know, capturing the moments that you have. But there's always been that nagging thing in me to say, yeah, but there's that thing I got to chase. Or there's that. There's that success I have to go for. What's the next tour? What's the next thing? I've never been. It's like the Satisfied song in Hamilton. You know, it's like there's always been that other thing. And yet what I was saying to my. To my therapist that really kind of got me emotional was that, like, at the end of the day, and you realize that what is life but to. But to capture and bottle the good moments when you can get them and to really stop and to really enjoy those moments. Because regret is a powerful thing. And if you. If you move so quickly and the greatest thing. I mean, truly the gifts that have been given to me by starting at a young age, doing what I love, to be able to travel the world, make music that I love, to meet people from all over the world and all walks of life. But the thing that it took for me was a little bit of the slowness of the growth, and it was hyperspeed, and it was always thinking about what hasn't happened yet or dwelling on what is already dead. And there was very little time to think about what's here, and very little time to bottle the goodness of what's right here. And I always knew it was important kind of peripherally, but it wasn't until this last year or two when everything started to click to me about how important and how powerful it is. And the crazy little secret about that is that once that started to happen, the clarity of where I wanted to go creatively and what I wanted to do for my next steps, because I had done. I had a major creative block right after I left Broadway, about a year and a half.

[Lewis Howes]

Really?

[Josh Groban]

Yeah. Because you had the structure. I had the structure. I had a year of doing my dream show, and all of a sudden, you don't have a place to go. You don't have a sporting. You don't have an audience in front of you. You don't have a routine. And so I needed to kind of have the time out of absolutely being completely scared, not knowing what I wanted to do, not knowing where I was going in order to kind of finally evaluate and realize the power of that. But, yeah, I had a bit of an emotional moment just thinking about. I was with my brother. I was with my new nephew, my baby nephew, who's just the most precious, most amazing and beautiful baby, and my brother's wife. And I was there with my girlfriend, who's my love. And. And, you know, I just spent time with my parents as well, you know, and we. It was just like this week of, oh, this is my. This is everything that I want. I can bottle this. This is what I want to bottle every day that I have going forward. There's going to be good days, there's going to be tragic days, there's going to be everything in between. But this week of. Of connectivity, I want to bottle this forever. And I just want to keep bottling. I just want to keep finding those. That's. That's my goal in my life. And it can be creative, too, but. But it's. It's important.

[Lewis Howes]

That's beautiful, man. When you were so young and reaching the heights of success in this music world, did you feel like you were happy when you were accomplishing all these big goals and breaking records?

[Josh Groban]

And, you know, I was. I was. I was happy that others were happy. I think that when I look back at it, I kind of define my happiness at the time as being, I guess, satisfied that I had knocked the duck down, that I had done what it was that was asked of me and I had achieved. I had broken through the pressure of what was expected of me. And it was like I had two gears. It was either, like, normal, good, I did the job, Everybody's happy, I can go home with a smile on my face, I did the job, or I didn't do what I was supposed to do. And I'm going to take that to a very dark place. But I was never able to break through the ceiling to joy.

[Lewis Howes]

Really?

[Josh Groban]

No, not really.

[Lewis Howes]

I mean, you had Tony, Emmy, five time Grammy nominated, you know, 35 million albums sold worldwide, more now. All these things. Broadway, film, television. I mean, it's like you've done all the awards.

[Josh Groban]

Oh, for sure. And that's not to say that there wasn't an enormous amount of like, of. Of gratitude, but the, The. The. Because I was. This. This all came from a lack of confidence. Not a. This is not a big deal. It was because I was so nervous about failure. Every step of the way. It was because every step of the way. And I'm talking primarily, like, the first 10 years of my career.

[Lewis Howes]

Because you got started kind of when you got started. When were your teens, right?

[Josh Groban]

Like, Yeah, I was 17 when I.

[Lewis Howes]

Is this the Celine moment?

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, I was 17. I got discovered by David Foster singing with Celine at a Grammy rehearsal.

[Lewis Howes]

That video is amazing.

[Josh Groban]

And it's. Oh, my God. I look at it, I'm just like, first of all the hair, the turtleneck, the whole thing was like, no.

[Lewis Howes]

But the moment was so powerful to have that captured.

[Josh Groban]

My dad had had a video camera in the audience. And, like, you know, Renee, Celine's husband, who passed away, who was so, so kind to me, said, oh, no, he can. Security was all over my dad because, you know, you didn't. Yeah, yeah, you can't just film and said, you know, no, let.

[Lewis Howes]

No, that's his son.

[Josh Groban]

Let him. Let him film. So we were able to capture it. And, you know, I thought it would be a cool thing to show my friends, you know, like, hey, look, that's Celine Dion. I look back at it now and I think, wow, that was a moment where I was terrified. I got through it. But, you know, even after that, I walked back to the car, and I think it's just in my nature. I was just like, did I do okay? Like, did I. Was David happy? Was Celine happy? Like, okay? And I had never been on a stage that large in my entire life. But there was something about my psyche that was saying, like, oh, good, did I get the job done? I got the job done. All right, well, back to history class. You know, I just was. I don't know what was wrong with me, but. But even when David asked me to do it, he was like, hey, I'm at the Grammys. Andrea Bocelli can't show up. You were great at this thing. I heard you at, would you mind singing with Celine? Even then I was like, can I do the job? And I said, okay, Andrea's a tenor, I'm a baritone. I'm not sure this is my range. David, I think you might be better off getting a different singer.

[Lewis Howes]

I mean, so you almost turned it down.

[Josh Groban]

I did turn it down. And he called me back and said, I don't think you've heard me, because he'd never been, I don't think, rejected. Yeah, yeah, rightfully so. And he said, you know, I'll see you at 3 o' clock and you're doing this. And, you know, thank God he called back, because I wouldn't be sitting here. But there is. Was something in my nature very early on that was very much about, like, can I satisfy the need? And if not, I don't want to be. I don't want to just do it to do it. And it honestly, that. That served me well. Just like a pro athlete. Like, that served me well to. To eliminate some of the noise and eliminate the hot. The extreme highs that can get you into trouble. I saw a lot of artists that their egos and their confidence just went to a whole other level. And there can be a certain complacency that happens when you, when you. You think it don't stink. But. But I, I always kept my. Kept my nose down and always thought about like, okay, well, if I did the job, I can be satisfied and go to sleep happy tonight, but if I didn't do the job, then I would self crit. And that was the thing I needed to start to get better at.

[Lewis Howes]

Where do you think you'd be if you didn't say yes to David Foster and Celine Dion for that practice session? Where do you think your life would be? Your career or you think you would have finally broken through or was that big catalyst?

[Josh Groban]

I just think that success would have been a different animal for me. And I think just as meaningful an animal for me. I think that theater was always in my blood. I was accepted into a very prestigious theater program at Carnegie Mellon University. Really top of the heap as far as like, great musical theater programs. And. And so I was, I was so excited to be part of that. And I. My freshman class there was like, just bananas. Talented. I had, we had, you know, Josh Gad, Roy O', Malley, Leslie Odom Jr. Who got the Tony for Hamlet.

[Lewis Howes]

Leslie was in there too.

[Josh Groban]

Leslie was in there.

[Lewis Howes]

I've had him on the show.

[Josh Groban]

Oh, yeah. I mean, he's such an aspiring. Awesome.

[Lewis Howes]

All those were in the same class.

[Josh Groban]

We were in the same class. Katie Mixon, who's an amazing actress, you know, and all of a sudden. And I've told the story, but it's like we were all the hot at our high schools, right? We were all the lead. We were all Tevye. And like, all of a sudden you're doing freshman sing for the, for this. You know, we were the avengers of like high school theater leads. And all of a sudden we're in the same class together and doing our freshman sing for each other and we're all just kind of going, oh, wow. Oh, got it, got it.

[Lewis Howes]

You know, it's another level.

[Josh Groban]

This is. I now, this is what I have to reach. So.

[Lewis Howes]

And you came from LA also?

[Josh Groban]

And I came from big, and I came from la. And I also started my fre after that Celine moment with David had happened. So I was juggling from, like a confidence perspective. Honestly, my soul really wanted to be where my college experience wanted to put me, which was that you have to humble yourself. You are a beginner, you are learning. It is time for you to build sets for the seniors, it is time for you to grind and feel like you have a long way to go. That is where I wanted to be. You got. You're going to fail a ton. And you know what? By the time you graduate, you're going to be a leading actor. But not yet.

[Lewis Howes]

But what happened?

[Josh Groban]

And then on the other side, I got David calling me, saying, hey, we gotta. I'm. You're gonna. I gotta have you at this billionaires event, and you're gonna be singing with this person. Ray Charles is gonna go on before you and all these. And I'm, you know, and like, all of a sudden I'm getting from this side of it. You gotta walk the walk. You gotta talk the talk. You know, you gotta act like a star, dude. And on this side, it's. You're here to learn and you're this big until we tell you. And, you know, and so that was a very confusing time because, you know, I think a lot of people maybe would have, like, said, oh, but I've got this guy over here, and I really want to be there. My soul was telling me I wanted to be a student. I really wanted to get into the mud and have the permission to be bad, to have the permission to try something stupid and pick myself back up. And also being kind of an introvert, I was excited to, like, have the college friend experience. I was happy to be in a dorm building with all kinds of artistic kids. And, like, having that being over in this corner was actually really isolating. A lot of pressure. Yeah, a lot of, like, very shiny things, but a lot of pressure and a lot of isolation along with this enormous door that had been swung open for me. At the end of the day, my parents and I talked about it, and I was in school for Performing Arts. You've got an opportunity. The school was kind enough to give me a leave of absence. They didn't just kick me out. And so I said, okay, I'll come back in a year. The kind of roles that I was going out for, I didn't need to be young and high kicking. I wanted to be like Sweeney Todd. So I thought, if I miss a year, it's not the end of the world. And then, you know, that path. That path happened. But.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow.

[Josh Groban]

But Broadway came calling. And that's some of the most satisfying artistic moments I've ever had. Have been on the Broadway stage because it represented for me where I wanted to be when I. When I started that other. That other path.

[Lewis Howes]

Gosh, this is fascinating, man. So how did you. When did you feel like you gained confidence? Well, you know, because you had the door, like, wide open for you.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

From one working hard as a child to getting the talent, it's not like someone just gave it to you because they liked you. It's like a number of things happened. You also busted your butt. You're extremely talented. You put in the reps and you had an opportunity and you took advantage of it and you kept delivering on results. It's not like you. And so more opportunities come when you keep delivering results.

[Josh Groban]

Sure.

[Lewis Howes]

But when did the confidence come?

[Josh Groban]

When I look back at it as a whole, I'm really able to high five that kid and say, man, you got fastball after fastball, and you kept hitting home runs. But in the moment, I was only thinking about the strikeouts. I was only thinking about, like, all the times where I felt like I wasn't quite enough or I wasn't quite hitting the note the way David wanted, or I wasn't quite. My stage presence wasn't where it needed to be or, you know, or when I wasn't getting recognition if somebody gave me a bad review or I wasn't nominated when I wanted to be or something. I was. I was hyper focused on all of the ways in which there might be a hint that it could be all over or that I wasn't good enough. Really, I was. It was like. It was like I was a lawyer in my own head defending the demons. Like, you see.

[Lewis Howes]

You see one critic over here.

[Josh Groban]

Your Honor, I'd like to present exhibit. A talentless piece of. Here you are. Yes, I arrest my case. I wasn't focused on all of the ways in which I was crushing it. I was focused on all of the ways in which I wasn't. Meanwhile, there was a whole lot of success happening as well. So confidence was a. Was a funny thing that crept in through experience. If I didn't have the hours and hours and hours and hours. There are enough things that happen where you feel like you don't. You aren't. Aren't quite on your game, and it affects you. Oh, I was. I was so nervous. Oh, God, it really got to my voice. Ah. Why did I crack there? Why did that. Eventually you get through enough things where there's a. Your demons are having a party, and you still made it through and did great that you go, ooh, I'm going to put that in the tool. The tool belt. I know now. I know what that demon feels like, and I now have the machete for that one. Okay. And eventually, you've been through enough hair raising, nervous, not confident moments on stage and gotten through it anyway, that all of a sudden, like by proxy, you take a side door to confidence. For me, confidence is having enough tools in that belt to know that, you know, I'm not ever going to kill the doubt. But what I can do is say, all right, here's the one. Here's the tool I need to get through this bad moment because I've been through it before. That's where confidence is coming from.

[Lewis Howes]

Wow. What is the best psychological or emotional tool that you've used when you experience the most fear or self doubt? What do you use to at least get through it?

[Josh Groban]

Yeah. As an overthinker and as somebody who feels like I need to overcomplicate things as a baseline in order for it to feel, like, meaningful, the greatest lesson that I've had to learn is the power of simplicity and the power of back to basics. Because I never thought that I was just enough. So I had to stack things on top of me in order to feel like I was lifting enough to be impressive to somebody. Because just me just my singing just was. Was like, why? And so for me, getting through stage fright, getting through nerves, being, being thrown on stage, which can still happen after thousands of performances. You can have an audience that you think is going to be amazing and all of a sudden they're just weird or drunk or somebody's yelling something in the front. Things can still throw you. No matter how many times you've been out there or all of a sudden you thought you were sounding great in the dressing room and then out of nowhere you're like, ooh, I got a frog in my throat. What's this about the ability inside yourself without anybody else knowing you're doing this. To take it back to basics to a simple checklist that involves. As an example, I might be thinking about, I'm at Madison Square Garden and I got 18, 20 songs to sing and it's sold out. And this is the. And I've got all my friends here and my labels here. And there's like, there's the 32,000 foot view that when you're really coasting out there, you can allow yourself to take it to the complexity of, like, all that. I'm going to be at a 10 and I'm going to be singing the high note. And I also know that this person I'm a fan of is in the audience. I'm going to find them. Where are they? And you're just like, you're Allowing yourself to get large with it. If I'm not feeling good, I'm thinking about the. I'm thinking about telling the story of that next lyric. And that's it. That is it. And, you know, and I am not thinking about impressing the greatest venue in the world. I'm not thinking about who's out there. I'm not thinking about the next song or even the next line. I am just thinking about singing and telling the story of this, of the word and the line that's in front of me right this second as beautifully and as honestly as I can. And then the next line, and then the next line, and it's. Then you say, okay, I'm at a 1, and on the outside, it's not any different. I'm still enough. I'm still doing everything I need to do, but inside, I'm telling the demons to take a backseat. And so learning that simplicity and slowing my complex thinking mechanism down to take to be. Because it takes a lot of bravery to sit at a 1 in a venue that's an 11 or an event or something that holds that much meaning. It takes a lot of experience to be able to set yourself into a very simple zone when there's so much chaos around you. And that's just experience that just comes from. I couldn't have done that at 20.

[Lewis Howes]

That's so interesting because I used to be terrified of speaking on stage, but for the last, I don't know, 17 years, I've been speaking on stages. And even after, whatever, 10 years, and getting paid a lot of money to speak in front of thousands of people, sure, I would still get nervous right before going on. And I was like, why am I nervous? Like, I've done this so many times. I've done training and public speaking class and been on stage and get paid a ton of money. Like, why am I still nervous?

[Josh Groban]

Because all those things you've already done, the ne. The one that's in front of you is not done yet. And it's true. And it's control. No matter how many times I've done it, the stage that I'm about to walk up the stairs to isn't in my control yet. When I'm backstage, I've realized that nerves are the fact that I don't have the reins yet. The nerves are unknown. I'm not sure I'm completely out of control to the unknown. I think it'll go great. I've done great in the past. There's no reason to think that I'll do Poorly out there, but I don't really know. And I think those nerves creep up when you care, because when you stop being nervous, it kind of means that you're on autopilot and then it's time to find something else that scares you. Yeah, but. But I've. I've started to harness the nerves in a way that makes finally getting on stage fun because now I can control. Now I can control the evening. I can control. I've done public speaking, too, which is way scarier for me than singing, by the way, so kudos. But, like, I will talk very. As you can probably tell, talk very fast. When I'm public speaking and I've got a speech to do at something, and where I can take control is like, oh, I'm going to relish in this line. I'm going to really slow it down. I'm going to find my pace. Singing is the same way. Now I've got a chance to really dictate how I feel about this next thing I'm going to say or sing. And having that control, I think, can be a really fun thing if you transition your nerves to, like, oh, I just want to. I just want to make the night what I want to make it.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, that's cool. A friend of mine said it's hard to be nervous when your heart's on service. And when I. When I go out on stage, I have a number of tools myself, but that's something I think about before I step on stage instead of thinking, how can I look good and perform well.

[Josh Groban]

Right.

[Lewis Howes]

And entertain. It's more like, who needs to hear a message that can serve today?

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And maybe that's something you do in your own way of, like, how can I just give my best? And, you know, that's the simplicity of.

[Josh Groban]

Just, just, just tell the story, sing the lyrics, sing truth. Just take it down to the simplicity of accessing and. And giving out a message that you want to give.

[Lewis Howes]

That's cool.

[Josh Groban]

And then that's. And then that's it. And then the rest of it, before you know it, you're saying, good night, Cleveland.

[Lewis Howes]

You know, I'm curious, when has been a moment in your career where it was like the biggest success was happening, but you felt like you were at your lowest place mentally, emotionally, physically? Did you ever have those feelings or moments where I was like, man, I'm crushing it, like, to the world, but internally, I feel like I'm really struggling?

[Josh Groban]

You know, I'm sure I could pinpoint a couple of those, but honestly, that has Happened more off more times that I could actually kind of say that. There have been moments where I have been going through my own mental health journey on stage. Really, that is so polar opposite from the experience that the audience is getting. Really?

[Lewis Howes]

They know you're going through it. Are you? I'm expressing it.

[Josh Groban]

No.

[Lewis Howes]

So you're just in your mind going through it.

[Josh Groban]

I can tell you now that I have distance from those evenings that I was crushing it, that the shows were great. And in those moments, there have been times where I can't even like talk to anybody for like an hour after the show because I'm just, I'm in this like shame spiral of self criticism that is, can go so deep that has nothing to do with the reality. And I think, you know, I talk to a lot of performers and people that are, that have high pressure performance jobs, whether it's in the arts or sports or whatever. And there is a certain place that is like an adrenaline place or whatever it is that your fight or flight that your brain has to access so often where, when you do that many shows that sometimes the nights where you're crushing it the most are actually the ones where you're kind of on the fringe a little bit and your vulnerability is kind of taking a hit and you're feeling a little too wide open and there's a lot of stuff that's coming in and that means that there's some darkness that comes into. And so there have been shows where I have had to get out of my own way to enjoy what I've, what I've just done. But I also have a tendency sometimes to, when I step off of a stage and it's like there's like two different people when I'm on stage, there is something I can tap into that really knows how to ride the wave and ride the energy that's happening up there and work the stage. And then I've just, for better or for worse, I've never been one of those people that can take the party back off stage with me. I, I, I, I have so much jealousy for those artists that there is an after party. And it's like, let's keep celebrating what this whole thing was, man. Yeah, let's have drinks and let's talk about how great the night was and let's talk about how, you know. And I've just never been, I've just never been that person.

[Lewis Howes]

What happens for you typically after a performance?

[Josh Groban]

Kind of like a battery overload, like shutdown mode, it like drained you. I go into low power mode. Interesting. And I and I it is has trained me a little bit. I think that there's a not a small part of it that has to do with protecting from disappointment. Or maybe it wasn't quite the way I thought it was out there. Or maybe I read a few, you know, too many negative things when I was younger and it just taught me like ah, don't get, don't get too high after a show.

[Lewis Howes]

Right.

[Josh Groban]

Stay right here. You know, interesting. But for whatever reason I've just always, I've always let out everything that I possibly have to give out there. And then afterwards I just don't let myself celebrate it too much. Wow. And you know, that's that's still something I need to work on.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Josh Groban]

Yeah, I was 16 there.

[Lewis Howes]

Imagine you're there. That's what, I don't know. 30 years ago, 20 something years ago. What three things would you say to him? Whether anything would change or not. But just pieces of advice that you have now from wisdom, from years of experience, from therapy, from healing, from growth, ups and downs. What would you share with him?

[Josh Groban]

What's interesting about when I look back at that video and I look back at that kid is that I actually have more to learn from that kid now than I have advice to give that kid.

[Lewis Howes]

Interesting.

[Josh Groban]

I actually can think of more things I'd like that kid to tell me at 44 than things I want to tell that kid as a 44 year old.

[Lewis Howes]

Okay, well give me three things that your 16 year old self will tell you now and then three things that you could also say to him.

[Josh Groban]

Him.

[Lewis Howes]

What would he say to you?

[Josh Groban]

First I. I was. Because nobody was paying attention then nobody was wait, looking for the next thing. Nobody knew who I was. I walked out on that stage and I stood out there for like 20 minutes because nobody thought that I was the kid singing with Seline. So I'm standing on an X and I'm just kind of out there. Dooty doo. Yeah. Hanging out and just kind of read. Reading the Italian and trying to make, you know. And yeah, I'm nervous. Of course I'm nervous. Just like I get nervous now. But I also knew that this was probably a once, you know, in a lifetime experience and I was going to go back to theater school and after this and like tell a cool story.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Josh Groban]

And man there was A purity of heart there that is so important to go back to when all of a sudden there's a million things that people are expecting of you and know your name for. And so, you know, I would, I would tell that kid, don't worry so much. And I would ask that kid to tell me, don't look at the next 50 things that are in front of you. Hold that lyric in your hand and sing out for the moment that you have it and don't think about the next thing you have to sing. Just be in that moment. Because I was in the zone. That kid was in the zone. I was.

[Lewis Howes]

Was that kid insecure or self doubting or self critical then?

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, but it was like a, it was in a. I was so self doubting that I told David no. I honestly, genuinely didn't think that I was right for that thing. So I get there and there's a certain level of nervousness that doesn't hit you when you're that green. There's a certain level of no pressure.

[Lewis Howes]

There's nothing on you right now.

[Josh Groban]

The ignorance is bliss thing that you're just like, oh, oh, wow, we're here. And before you know it, you're on the stage and the director's going, where's the kid? Where's. Where's the. Stand in for Celine? And I'm going, hi, you all right? Okay, stand here. Can we get a mic for the kid? Thanks. And I'm just like, okay, I guess I'm gonna sing into this. I mean, I, I didn't know how to ask for the right monitor sound. I didn't know like, oh, I need a little more treble in my ear. And so. Yes. Hi. A little hot teeth, throat coat, please. Yeah, but. Or, or I might not be able to sing the note. You know, there's all these trappings that come in that are, that are like these rituals that you start to feel like you need and you know, honestly, like that, that kid would tell, you know, the guy who's now been selling albums for 25 years, get your head out of your. And just. I didn't have. I probably hadn't had water in four hours when I sat, When I sang on that stage. I was in a hot car. I had a security guard who wasn't going to let me in because David didn't give us the pass. I had my dad with a rickety camera in the front row and I had nobody who cared that I was standing there. And I had this global superstar who was like, Are you okay? We're gonna get through it together. And she took my hand, and I'm just going, wow, okay. She's lovely and nice. This is wonderful. This is so nice. Selena's so nice. But, man, I was like. In my mind, I was so like, oh, okay, well, let's. Let's give it a go. I want to. I'd love to do a good job. And I'm very nervous, but, you know, there was so much ignorance that I feel is so useful. Wow. Now that, you know, to just. And I think maybe it goes back to that. Keep. When I need to go back to simple. When I need to take it to one, I'm kind of taking it back to that. Just be. Just be. And that's it. Because there was no expectation of me. And so there was nothing in me that, you know, felt this pressure except that I just wanted to do a really good job for David and then go back and, you know, watch south park or whatever it is I'm going to do. So, yeah, it was more about having fun.

[Lewis Howes]

It sounds like there was a lot of fun and just enjoy the fun.

[Josh Groban]

There was fun. There was a humility. There was, of course, a nervousness because it was crazy. But there was also a. Like, this is. I didn't know what I didn't know. And so I didn't have any of the stuff that gets in your way about expectation, about all the things you need. I didn't have a writer. I didn't have reverb. I didn't have. There weren't. I had no expectations. And I think that going back to that place can be really valuable sometimes.

[Lewis Howes]

How do you create that fun, playful, no expectation mindset 25 years later with such a massive career that you've had? How do you just say, okay, for the next decade, I'm going to go, no expectations. The label has an expectation. My fans have expectations. My future self needs money coming in. How can you have the mindset of it, but also still curate your personal brand and content the way that's needed to in an industry that's looking for hits and success?

[Josh Groban]

Right. You know, I think that taking side quests in life is. Is a really important and valuable thing. I like that. You have to. I never had hobbies. Right. Like, to me, my hobby, when I got into the thick of the success, my hobby was just, what am I going to write next? What am I going to sing next? What am I going to hit next? And I would always just say, oh, yeah, my hobby is singing. My hobby is music. I'm just. But honestly, having other things to excite you is important. And also understanding that once you branch out and you have a certain amount of people that are with you, you have the ability to, if you choose, to open more doors for yourself and to also open more doors for other people. And so a huge part of. Of kind of getting out of my own way has been with philanthropy, has been in. In finding my younger self in countless other students and trying to give whatever it was that I had, the access that I had, the. The wisdom that I was given to whatever young people that I can and to kind of see it through their eyes as somebody who's old and stodgy and you know, that expectation is. Is always going to be a little bit of the rent due for. For success and for hitting. Hitting it the way you want it to hit it. Yeah. When I don't have expectations of me, I know that there will be a problem as well. So I embrace the expectations. It just shows that I've reached a certain place where I want to be. But. But, you know, picking and choosing, where you just kind of decide in the most loving way to your artistic self to not care. And it's not that you don't actually care. It's just that sometimes you have to create in order to get through the maze of caring so damn much. You have to have that abandon and say just my voice feature when I'm nervous, just throw it off the balcony. Who cares? Well, yeah, I do a lot, but the point is to just let it go. And so I'm always looking for creative things that allow me to feel like, well, this isn't for the label. This isn't for, you know, a certain core fan base. This is just for me. And I find that whenever I'm able to do kind of weird comedy stuff, Broadway honestly was one of those things where I felt like there was a. I wasn't expecting. When I did my first Broadway show, which was a weird kind of started off off off Broadway, I was not expecting it to be the success there was. And it taught me that, you know, sometimes when you go towards the thing that is not for them, you're actually doing the exact right thing for everybody. Interesting because it's your. Again, a lot of side doors in my life. You're side dooring yourself to finding passion, to finding where and not just a goal, but that thing that's lit under you.

[Lewis Howes]

That's interesting because I like what you just said. When you decide to do something that's not for them. You do it for everyone.

[Josh Groban]

You can. Yeah, I've done stuff that comes for everyone, I guess. Right. It reaches more people sometimes than you could have ever expected. For me, being allowed back into a theater community that I left my freshman year, that I didn't know if I'd ever have a chance to come back to that, or that I'd ever be invited back to that I went into theater. For me, I said, you know what? It's time.

[Lewis Howes]

That's cool. I wanted to do money or this or that.

[Josh Groban]

No, absolutely not. I want to do it for me. I love this work and I'm going to do it. I'm just going to take a timeout from the day job and I'm just going to go into this because this is for my soul. And, man, the domino effect of things that came from doing that first Broadway show taught me that. Oh, that's where the light is. Whatever it was that made me choose to do that, whatever I call the day job, I need to make that same choice in every song I sing and every album that I make and every producer that I work with, and all the things that I thought were more of a machine that I needed to figure out, like, what do I have to say next? What do I have to do next to hit it? It's just go where the goosebumps are. That's it.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, go where the goosebumps are. That's powerful. And this is. Listen, we're in la. This is very privileged conversation that we're having here because we get to do what we love and make money from it and impact people. Not everyone gets to, like, just do what gives them goosebumps all day long where they can make money and do all these things. But I truly think everyone can have side quests, have hobbies and live a life where their soul is on fire.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Maybe you're not enjoying everything you're doing, but you can bring soul to everything you're a part of.

[Josh Groban]

And like you said, it's not. You're not always going to feel it, but the pursuit of that feeling, rather than the pursuit of the end goal, is, I think, where the secret sauce is.

[Lewis Howes]

This is so cool.

[Josh Groban]

So for me, like, what I challenge myself to do now, day to day, is to go towards a feeling rather than think about going towards what it is I want to get from it at the end of it.

[Lewis Howes]

The result, I want to hit the next.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah. And that can be sometimes a tough thing. And you've interviewed a lot of people that have been so successful and have had a lot of pressure. And for me, having that pressure at the young age and having a lot of very type A people around me at a young age who also have made it very clear to me that if you're not singing into the golden microphone, it's going to be passed along to the next person. You start to develop some patterns emotionally that you have to unlearn a little bit. And so, yeah, I'm chasing that feeling right now. And when I go back around to that cry I had on the phone with my therapist, um, it was, you know, it's. It's when you get those. When you. When you're able to bottle a feeling, you know, and in my creative life now, that's all I'm trying to do is I'm trying to chase where that, where that good stuff is. And it doesn't come without a whole lot of days where you're hitting yourself over the head and you're digging a hole. It's just about, you know, you got to get out of it.

[Lewis Howes]

What I'm hearing you say is over the last 25 years, not all of it, but a lot of it, you were in your head, you were analytical, analytically thinking that I hit the note. Did I please this person? Was the audience happy? Was the label happy? Did I hit my numbers? Did it sell out? Whatever it is, was it a record breaker thing? And you're in your head a lot, but it sounds like you're chasing what's in your heart now in a feeling.

[Josh Groban]

Of there's so much you can't control. And yes, that stuff will happen or not happen based on so many factors that don't have anything to do with whether you yourself are dwelling on it. And that's the thing. It's not that you lose ambition for success. It's just that you can't control what you can't control. You can hold yourself and you can hold people around you accountable for the goals that you have for yourself in the most loving and motivating ways. But at the end of the day, the job that I have to do is a feelings job. It really is. And the rest of it, I can't grasp it too tightly because it's not up to me. Every year the business is in a different place, you know, every tour. Some tours, you know, you crush it. Some tours, you just woke up on the wrong side of the bed for whatever reason. It's like, all right, I'll move on to the next one, you know, But I'm still going to chase that feeling and I'm still going to go after that. And so, yeah, it's a fun place to be. I've been doing this now 25 years and, you know, finding dreams for myself that represent what I've been doing and represent new uncharted territories is a really fun place to be. I'm very, very grateful.

[Lewis Howes]

What's the thing that gives you goosebumps now when you think about exploring the idea?

[Josh Groban]

There's a couple of things, one in the past and then one going forward. But when I, and I sort of say this sometimes on stage, but when I sing songs that were from my first album now, and I mentioned that I was singing a lot of songs that had to do with a life that I hadn't lived yet, I was being given songs were very mature. And when I get to, when I get to sing those songs now, as somebody who's experienced love and loss and all the things that I'm now the age of who I was singing for when I was 17, you know, I, I have a newfound appreciation for my older work because I now feel like I've lived the life that can fully tell the stories. Wow, that's cool. And you know, as I go forward, the things that give me goosebumps when I have a great day with my nephew and my girlfriend and I've had a great day with my parents or something gets me up at 2 in the morning to just sit at the piano and just play. And there's just something pure about the experiences that I get to have in my life and I'm not thinking about the other stuff that's the stuff that's good. Scary for me now is thinking about setting roots down and moving on with the things that I maybe put to the side, you know, during the, the other part of my, of my life and you know, and I, I and, and keep, keep side questing.

[Lewis Howes]

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[Josh Groban]

Going to learn magic.

[Lewis Howes]

Let's go. I just went to a magic show this week.

[Josh Groban]

Oh really?

[Lewis Howes]

In la.

[Josh Groban]

It was awesome, man. I just did magic tricks. My parents. It was pretty good. I kind of crushed it.

[Lewis Howes]

Did some kind of tricks. You got a trick?

[Josh Groban]

I don't. You know it's strange I didn't bring a magic trick. Yeah, that's the next levels when you.

[Lewis Howes]

Can just pull out a magic cards and.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, I'm not sure I want to be that guy actually But. But. But you never know. You never know.

[Lewis Howes]

But it could always be a coin trick that you could have. I got a quarter. You know, let's do something.

[Josh Groban]

I've been collecting baseball cards and selling. I have. I have an. I have an ebay account where I've been selling baseball.

[Lewis Howes]

Come on.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah. Nobody knows it's me. But. But can I tell you that the. The satisfaction that I get.

[Lewis Howes]

You're like, I made 20 bucks.

[Josh Groban]

Not even. Not even, like, wrapping. Delicately wrapping an Ellie de la Cruz, like, base card. Wow. In, like, an envelope and the padding and the. In the. In the team bag and. And like, printing out the label and shipping, taping the label and dropping it off at the post office to send to Tallahassee. And for Peoria, it, like, there has been something about. That's been so tangible and so fun. That's cool to do that. I really, really enjoy doing that. Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

Do you get them graded or do you just send them raw?

[Josh Groban]

I send them raw. Yeah. I haven't gotten into the PSA stuff. I mean, there's. Because there's certain cards that I do want to get graded, but. But no, I'm just. I'm just putting them out. Putting them out raw. And there's some that are expensive, some that aren't, but. But it's been. It's been really, really fun.

[Lewis Howes]

Are you breaking decks, then? Are you buying them and trade and selling them, or are you.

[Josh Groban]

I'll get into breaks sometimes.

[Lewis Howes]

But you go into trade shows and you're buying them.

[Josh Groban]

I haven't gotten into the trade shows yet, but no, sometimes I'll go online and do some breaks online, which is. It's cool. But it's also sometimes a real waste of money.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it is, you know, because you're wasting.

[Josh Groban]

Eight times out of 10, you lose, you're losing, you're losing. So I really enjoy.

[Lewis Howes]

It's the thrill of it.

[Josh Groban]

I like it. You know what? As long as I'm going to spend some money on it, because, you know, the old joke is, like, if you want to make $500 selling baseball cards, you got spelled 5,000 to get them. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Josh Groban]

You know, it's Is. Is just kind of getting some. Some basic boxes, hobby boxes, and I open them with my girlfriend, I open them with my brother. It's just fun to rip them open and see what you get.

[Lewis Howes]

I got into buying a little bit during COVID I've kind of paused for a while, but.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, well, that would be the time to do it for Sure. I was late to it.

[Lewis Howes]

Right. But my friend Pat Flynn, he started the side quest of his own two years ago, three years ago, doing Pokemon stuff, bringing back his childhood joy to now. He's a very successful business entrepreneur. But now he has a TikTok that is called Should I Open it or Should I Keep It Sealed? It's a very. It's got a, like, a theme song to it.

[Josh Groban]

Oh, wow.

[Lewis Howes]

And it shows him, like, buying expensive decks of Pokemon, like, 20 years ago. Yeah. Should I open this or keep it sealed and sell it? He always opens it and almost always fails. Like, never gets anything. But you're, like, hoping he gets that one card, you know.

[Josh Groban]

This is being in your 40s post Covid.

[Lewis Howes]

Oh, yeah.

[Josh Groban]

Is just any, any slight grasp to nostalgia, like, give me that good. Give me that good feeling. I've been eating, like, the cereal of my childhood lately.

[Lewis Howes]

Like, what is it? Lucky Charms.

[Josh Groban]

Oh, my.

[Lewis Howes]

Captain Glucose.

[Josh Groban]

Yep. Rice. Rice Krispies. Yeah. Cocoa Puffs. Yeah. It's like there's. There's something. What is that? I'm just. There's something about the nostalgia of it. But the baseball cards. I, I, by the way, I've also been buying, like, boxes of cards, like, from the junk wax era. But we're from my, my 80s, you know, back. Back when I was collecting, you know, oral Hershey cards. Wow, that's been fun. Yeah, that's been fun.

[Lewis Howes]

So I hear you saying you're chasing joy rather than chasing success.

[Josh Groban]

That's a Trying to. Yeah, yeah. And the success sometimes, you know where. Whereas the joy would be the side door and the success was number one, I'm going to make joy number one. And if the success goes through the side door, then that's. That's a bonus.

[Lewis Howes]

This is the first time we've met, but I've seen your, you know, content and your, you know, your. Your performances on stage. For 25 years, I've seen you on TV and all these different things. I've seen moments of you. And again, we don't know each other except for just now, but you seem like you're the most peaceful, energetically, like. And your face seems calm and young. Whereas before, it's almost like, what do.

[Josh Groban]

You have people bouncing off the walls in here? This is.

[Lewis Howes]

I mean, I'm just. By perceiving all your work, it almost seemed like you were always trying to perform older, like, be older and, like, put together and like this perfect image versus I'm going to be myself. And you look younger than when you were probably.

[Josh Groban]

I was Stressed.

[Lewis Howes]

That's what I'm saying. You have the energy of like, more you.

[Josh Groban]

I had puppy paws that I hadn't grown into and I was like, I was. Yeah, I was. You know, you're. I joke, but you're, you're. You are so right that when I look back at videos of me doing interviews and stuff from those first 10 years, I was like, who is that old man inside? Energetically, I was energetically. Like, I was just like. My baseline was just deep concern at all times. And that concern, I think came across as a self seriousness, but it was, it was really just terror. It was just like, gotta say the right thing, gotta sing the right thing. Gotta. Gotta be all the right things. I have to be the person that everybody wants. There's a billboard of me staring you down. I gotta be that guy. And yeah, I was, I was, I was just, I was scared to death for a good amount of time. And I was also being rewarded for that fear with a lot of success. So it kind of taught me some toxic things that I needed to unlearn. But I've been so lucky that I've been able to break out of the things that are the norm. And I've done enough weird fun for me. Things that people have gone, oh, we like that too. That I thought, oh, I don't have to hold on so tightly. I can be. Sometimes it takes a long time before you can say to yourself, oh, just who I am is okay. Like, it's, you know, because you're, you're, you're packaged early and it's, it can take a long time. So to everybody who's allowed me to say, you know, I'm weird, and that's all right. Thank you.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, man, it's cool. I mean, even on social media, you're very fun and playful at times and you, like, express yourself, which again, I just didn't see that, you know, in the era of you growing up.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

From your success, it was like, I have to be the ultimate performer, you know, and perform in an interview. Not in a negative way, but it's like energetically, you had to be. It was held tighter.

[Josh Groban]

The kid that wasn't on stage, the kid before I got signed, was the biggest goofball. I mean, like, you know, I had. And have the attention span of a fly. Like, I've, you know, just always been bouncing off, you know, different things and different hobbies and, and, and, and I've always been just kind of weird. And I've always loved comedy and joined an improv troupe when I was in junior high school. And like, you know, and then the person that dove into the music industry, there was a very specific kind of lane that I needed to fill in order to be in the big leagues.

[Lewis Howes]

And you couldn't be this goofy kid.

[Josh Groban]

I. It that didn't fit the lane that was set in front of me. There was a part of me that was that lane. So it wasn't like I was just going into something that wasn't me, but the lane that was going to be. Here's where we need you. Here's the song that you're going to sing. Even the song that I sang with Selene, the Prayer that Fit a lane. And that lane was very, very serious. And that lane was about causing a lot more tears than laughter emotionally. And. And so I think that the fact that now with the Internet and social media and you can be all things, and I actually think it's flipped now to the point where if you aren't more things, you're boring. So it's actually in a place now that I think. I almost wish. Some parts of me are so glad I didn't have social media when I was 17, 18, because I was already insecure. But it would have been fun to have kind of tapped into that other stuff back then.

[Lewis Howes]

Of course.

[Josh Groban]

Of course, man.

[Lewis Howes]

I'm excited for you. This is a quote from you that I saw you say on another interview somewhere. We cannot fend off the battle inside by ourselves, even when we're always convincing ourselves we can and should. Who has been in your inner circle or your team that has supported you in overcoming yourself, limiting yourself to criticizing yourself or the shame you maybe had or just.

[Josh Groban]

There's been a couple of people. But, you know, my parents are both very artistic, but real world. They did not go into the arts professionally. To watch their kid want to be in the arts was probably sheer terror for them. But also, like, you know, they always brought me back down to earth and they always built me up. I had a couple of teachers that saw I mentioned the attention span thing, but, like, having ADD and not knowing it and finding solace in the arts saved my life. Having the teacher kind of go, I see, like, you're getting your butt kicked a bit in math class. I'm going to open up the music room for you so that you can refill that part of your tank because I know you're feeling like crap in that. With that tank that saved my life. You know, being with the right partner, you know, it's like I Was just talking to my girlfriend today about something. I was. I forgot what it was, but it was like, you know, having somebody that allows you to be your weakest with them so that you can be your strongest out the front door is. Is just the most vital and the most important thing. Wow.

[Lewis Howes]

How long you guys been together?

[Josh Groban]

About three years now. But honestly, like, to have a sounding board like that is. Is incredible.

[Lewis Howes]

What's the greatest lesson your girlfriend's taught you?

[Josh Groban]

To not care so much what other people think. Really? I. I'd say that, you know, there is such a. There is such a tendency for your focus when you're trying to become inspired by something, to kind of be wide and to be. You know, you're hearing it from a lot of. Lot of corner offices, are telling. Are telling you a lot of things, not to mention all the anonymous things that you get from all over the Internet. And, you know, it's impossible even when you've accomplished a bunch and even though you are chasing all the right things and to kind of get thrown every now and then to kind of say, oh, but she'll see that I'm really excited by something, and then I'll have a second thought that is based entirely on the insecurity of what somebody might say or, oh, maybe that won't be taken the right way, or stuff that has nothing to do with inspiration. And she'll sit me down and she'll say, like, absolutely not. I saw that. I saw how your eyes lit up. I saw that fire in you about this thing. You were so excited about this song or this collaborator or this comedy thing or whatever it was. And I think that, you know, she's from Essex, England, and she's. There's a certain amount of, like, you know, toughness there that I've. I've needed in my life and just to kind of keep me where the light. Keeping me where the light is can sometimes mean that you don't care as much about the noise. And even now, sometimes I care too much about the noise and the chatter.

[Lewis Howes]

Then what is at this season of life, what does success look like for you?

[Josh Groban]

I want to be as I want to be. I want to have the best platform I can to reach young people who are looking for a path in life and using the arts as a tool to do that. For me, an enormous part of success for me is paying it back, paying it forward, and diving headfirst into philanthropy and into. I'm going to be going to the Debbie Allen School of Dance tomorrow, and I'm going to be meeting with a bunch of kids and filming a bunch of stuff there. And it's like I, you know, I'm so excited to do that. Whenever I get to be in a room full of students and I get to instill whatever little wisdom I have from those moments and hopefully keep kids on the right side of the fence because I know what it feels like. And I came from support. There's a lot of kids out there who are not coming from the same support that I had. And staying on the right side and where that light is can be as simple as having that music room unlocked, you know, having that paintbrush in your hand or that dance program. And so putting whatever power and influence that I can put into raising awareness for those programs at a time when those programs are being obliterated at a rapid pace. That to me is finding a legacy for my foundation. Find you'd light is a huge level of success for me as I go forward. Being the best uncle I can be to my new nephew is a huge level for that. And you know, every artistic choice that I make, I, I want to be able to, to look at it and say, well, even if this doesn't do anything, I really, I love this. I really love this. That's a scary thing sometimes, you know, and continuing to do that, if I can continue to, to expand, you know, and, and do what I do, what I love, that would be very lucky. That has been a great run.

[Lewis Howes]

Hey, are you remembering to stay hydrated? And I mean actually hydrated. I'm sure you know by now that not all hydration is created equal. But Drip Drop has you covered so you aren't skipping out on important electrolytes. Drip Drop is doctor developed science backed proven fast hydration that actually tastes great. Their formula uses a precise ratio of sodium electrolytes and glucose for rapid fluid absorption. Delivering three times the electrolytes and half the sugar versus the leading sports drink. It's no wonder Drip Drop is trusted by firefighters, medical professionals and over 90% of top pro in college sports teams. You can't go wrong without any of their flavors. But my go to is the orange. It's always so refreshing and gets me feeling hydrated fast. I highly recommend it it right now Drip Drop is offering podcast listeners 20 off your first order. Go to dripdrop.com and use promo code greatness. That's dripdrop.com promo code greatness for 20 off. Stock up now before the heat hits hard. D R I p d r o-p.com and use promo code Greatness. Now, you've probably heard me say this before, but taking care of your health should be your number one priority. What you put in your body directly impacts how you think, how you feel, and how you show up in the world. And whether you're training for a marathon, you're running a business, or just trying to get through a busy day with energy and clarity. Nutrition is fundamental, and when I fuel my body right, I perform better. Period. And that's why I'm a big fan of RX Bar. RX Bar is all about simple ingredients and honest nutrition. They lead with transparency. Just look at their packaging says no bs. Just real ingredients like egg whites for protein, dates to bind, and nuts for texture. Whether you're on the go or in between meetings, they've got something that fits. The original 12 gram protein bar, the nut butter and oat bar, soft, crispy, and packed with 10 grams of protein. Or the mini, just 100 calories with 6 grams of protein. RXBar is the proud sponsor of no BS and they want you to say no to what's holding you back and yes to what fuels your greatness. Use code GREATNESS on RXBar.com for 25% off. RXBar proud sponsor of no BS. Subject to full terms and conditions and to change. Valid until September 30, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers. See rxbar.com for full details and limitations. Tell me about Find your light foundation. How long have you been doing this for and what is the. You know, it's helping each child have the opportunity to experience quality arts and education. I'm assuming, right, how long you've been doing this and how can we, the audience, get involved if they're inspired to.

[Josh Groban]

Well, it started, you know, my fans are amazing. They are never just in it for, like, the flash in the pan, like, you know, just cheering for the music. They want to know how to get involved, too. From day one, they've said, what are your passions outside of music and how can we help? They presented me with one of those jumbo, like, Publishers Clearinghouse checks. I was playing the Greek theater in like 2006, you know, and, and they came to the front of the, of the audience and they said, you know, hey, we've. We've raised this money for you. It was like something like $40,000 like that. And they said, we're. This is our. We know that you want to start a foundation one day. Consider this from your fans. The first check.

[Lewis Howes]

That's cool.

[Josh Groban]

The Cool. The coolest. And so, you know, it's. I didn't know I wanted it to be arts education at that point. We just kind of raised money. We built. We gave a lot to medicine and disease research and hunger and things like that. And I testified to Congress about the importance of the arts in our world and the importance of arts education and told my story. And I'm next to Linda Ronstadt and Wynton Marsalis, and I'm talking to. Very nervous, talking to congressmen and women, and I'm going, oh, I have a story here. I really know what I'm talking about here. And the fun part was too, that with arts education, a little bit goes a long way. You can buy a lot of paintbrushes, a lot of instruments. Doesn't take a lot to open that door and give a kid a drum set to sit at. And so I thought, oh, man. I think that I'm going to always give to other organizations. I'm always going to lend my money and my time to other organizations. But the thing that I want to raise money for, I think has to do with the thing that saved my life and saved me. And so we are giving grants all over the country to make sure that in school and after school, programs that enrich and give access to young people's potential through the arts continue to survive at a time when they're crashing and burning. Wow. We've seen it over and over and over again how the inclusion of a solid arts program in a young person's life changes their grades, gets them more invigorated in their academic work, changes their confidence level, gets their parents to come and see them in a show or see their art exhibit or whatever it is, gives them something to talk about. The graduation rate rises. We need an infusion of humanity right now. And with the divisiveness and with the attention seeming to be away from the things that bring us together, we need to instill in our young, our young people. It's not about finding the talent that's going to be the next superstar. It's about really instilling the things that the arts bring to what. What the light of what makes us incredible together, and also the beauty of all the differences we have.

[Lewis Howes]

So interesting because as an athlete growing up, I struggled in school, but sports was kind of my art.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Was my expression.

[Josh Groban]

I think that the similarities between using the arts as a tool and athletics as a tool are so many similarities.

[Lewis Howes]

It saved my life in a lot of ways, and it just helped me grow as an Individual and develop. Develop me and character development, team building, communication, all those things. I wish arts and sports and athletics were school. I wish that was the majority, not the after school thing. And the after school thing was like, okay, learn obviously how to read and write, but you need to learn how to work with people and set goals, deal with failure.

[Josh Groban]

Absolutely. Dealing with failure is a big one. Yes. Building yourself back up and expressing who you are through an art platform or sport platform. Getting that side of your soul out of your system opens up your tank for all the other things that you want to do or even just have to do. It exorcises so many demons in a young person's life and it's overlooked because it's thought of an extracurricular and it's not as important as the rest of it. But I would argue that it's, it's just as if not more important because it teaches kids who they are.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah, man, that's cool. So fylf.org is the site findyourlightfoundation.org can people go and donate there?

[Josh Groban]

They can learn about the programs that we support, they can donate. And we're, you know, we're constantly doing, doing work to, to raise money. And we're going to do another gala in October as well in New York at Jazz Lincoln center, which is going to be awesome. So look out for that. But yeah, we've just been. The amount that we've been able to raise, the millions we've been able to raise now, from very grassroots to now being able to have these galas and have supporters like Renee Fleming and Sara Bareilles and Lin Manuel Miranda and our former Surgeon General, Vivek Murthy. And the most fun part of it for me is when we have people who aren't in the arts going up. We have neuroscientists, we have people that talk about what the arts is doing on a scientific level to these young brains. That's the part for me that takes it out of, you know, for anybody that's skeptical of the woo woo of like, oh, it's just a drum circle. Yeah, like, no, we are, we are actually scientifically helping these brains.

[Lewis Howes]

That's cool.

[Josh Groban]

That's, that's the fun part for me.

[Lewis Howes]

That's great, man. F Y L f dot org. So there's a link for people to donate there too.

[Josh Groban]

There is? Oh yeah, for sure. And every little bit, honestly, like, you know, $5 can go towards, you know, like I said, that paintbrush, you know, all of these programs when they're asking for grants. They're not asking for a hundred thousand dollars. They're asking for 5, 2K, 3K. They're asking for just enough to keep these programs alive.

[Lewis Howes]

And if someone donated 500 to a thousand dollars, who's watching? What would that do for them? Like, how would that impact people? You know, is that a school? Is that. How many kids would that help?

[Josh Groban]

Well, when we get grant applications for programs, they, they go through a rigorous process where they'll tell us exactly what they need, what the, what the money is going towards. So we have a group of volunteers and myself and my family and our board. We do it as well. That we really make sure we vet that the money that's given to the, to the foundation is going to programs not just to be a band aid, but to really make sure that that money is going to nourish an arts program to continue to nourish themselves going forward. And so that we can be a small part of, at a pivotal point in time when this organization needs an infusion so that they can stay open for a long, long time.

[Lewis Howes]

So mostly for high school programs or.

[Josh Groban]

For like elementary through high school. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And right now we're just in the U.S. but we want to, we want to expand that globally as well. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

So FYLF.org will School of Greatness. We'll make a donation today for you.

[Josh Groban]

Oh, that's very kind. Thank you so much.

[Lewis Howes]

A donation there and I hope everyone else donates as well if you feel inspired.

[Josh Groban]

Thank you, sir.

[Lewis Howes]

About the Find you'd Light Foundation, I've got a couple of final questions for you, but this has been really inspiring and eye opening. I'm glad you've been sharing. Thank you so much. You've got a. Besides your foundation, you've got a couple shows at the Hollywood bowl coming up. September 5th and 6th, I believe.

[Josh Groban]

That'll give me the good chills.

[Lewis Howes]

That's exciting.

[Josh Groban]

That's a homecoming. That's.

[Lewis Howes]

That's gonna be fun.

[Josh Groban]

I remember my, my, my dad took me to see Elton John there when I was like 10 years old. We sat and I think we probably had the furthest seat in the back and it was still incredible. That's going to be a very, very special show with the two shows with the other film.

[Lewis Howes]

That's cool. And are you going on tour later.

[Josh Groban]

As well or planning on it? Yeah, we've been working. Nothing's been announced just yet, but we're honestly, we're looking at a bunch of both domestic and internationally. I Want to get out and hit the road in 2026. So. So, yeah, so look out for that.

[Lewis Howes]

Awesome. Yeah, you got a new album coming out as well called Skin and Gems.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, so we, we just released a kind of a best of compilation called Gems where we, we kind of took the songs that were favorites of mine, favorites of the fans, and we put them in one collection. That's cool. And then we started seeing a lot of comments from people saying, like, what about this song or that song? And there were songs that they were mentioning that honestly, like we either released for a very small amount of time or were like a bonus, bonus, bonus edition of something. Or we honestly, I sang live and never released it. And so we're going to be releasing something we're calling Hidden Gems, which is all the songs that are not quite yet available, stuff that we haven't put on Spotify yet. Stuff that, you know, has been, you know, on an old, you know, like a Hallmark only album or like a Target edition or something that that hasn't been the main songs that have still been songs that the fans have loved. So, yeah, Hidden Gems will be coming out plus to be one or two new songs in there as well.

[Lewis Howes]

Okay, very cool. So look out for that. Coming. It's coming soon, the next month or two, I think. Right. Or I think sometime says, absolutely, I've.

[Josh Groban]

Slid it under the door. So whenever they put it out there, it's up to them.

[Lewis Howes]

You've probably heard me say this before, but taking care of your health should be your number one priority. What you put in your body directly impacts how you think, how you feel and how you show up in the world. And whether you're training for a marathon, you're running a business, or just trying to get through a busy day with energy and clarity. Nutrition is fundamental. And when I fuel my body right, I perform better. Period. And that's why I'm a big fan of RX Bar. RX Bar is all about simple ingredients and honest nutrition. They lead with transparency. Just look at their packaging. It says no bs, just real ingredients like egg whites for protein, dates to bind and nuts for texture. Whether you're on the go or in between meetings, they've got something that fits. The original 12 gram protein bar, the nut butter and oat bar, soft, crispy and packed with 10 grams of protein. Or the mini, just 100 calories with 6 grams of protein. RXBar is the proud sponsor of no BS and they want you to say no to what's holding you back and yes to what fuels your greatness? Use code greatness on RXBar.com for 25% off RX Bar proud sponsor of no BS. Subject to full terms and conditions and to change. Valid until September 30, 2025, and may not be combined with other offers. See rxbar.com for full details and limitations. From navigating stress to finding purpose, tackling burnout to managing relationships, sometimes we all need a little help being human. That's where Life Kit from NPR can help. It's a show that offers thoughtful guidance on how to live better with strategies that help you make meaningful, sustainable changes in your everyday life. Life doesn't come with a manual, but every day you're faced with choices, some big, some small, that shape the direction you're headed. Life Kit brings in real stories, expert advice, and actionable tips to help you meet those moments with more clarity and confidence. The conversations explore both the emotional and practical sides of life, from personal wellness to parenting, finances and more. And the best part? It's not overwhelming. The episodes are quick, useful and designed to help you feel a little more together one step at a time. Listen now to the Life Kit podcast from npr. I want people to follow you because you have a lot of cool stuff on social media. What is the best platform for you, Josh, that you'd like to be on?

[Josh Groban]

Oh, oh man, I like Instagram. Everything is just osh Groban, my TikTok.

[Lewis Howes]

Tic Tac Tic tac toe baby.

[Josh Groban]

Let's go show you how involved I am on TikTok. My TikTok is at Josh Groban and my Instagram and my X and my Facebook are all just Josh Groban. And you know my TikTok is probably going to be the weirdest stuff that I do. But you know, it's been fun especially got a new puppy and we'd be posting lots of Patrick. So if you like dog content, there you go. You're in for a treat.

[Lewis Howes]

Singing and dog content, they go hand in hand. Before I ask the final couple questions, Josh, I want to acknowledge you for just your vulnerability and your realness today. I think it's been really cool that you've just been so open about reflecting 25 years ago your 16 year old self. And most people think about the advice they would give their younger self, but you actually gave advice from your younger self to your current self.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Which I think is fascinating to hear that perspective view of like saying I wish I would get more into that frequently, that joy that, you know, fearlessness that not worrying as much about what's happening next, but being in the now. So I love that about you and I love that you're making your mission. Obviously you want to be creating side quests and following your dreams, but you're also at a season where you're saying, how can I help that 12 year old, 16 year old, 18 year old, 21 year old who's in the arts, who's passionate about it. Just keep the lights on.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Keep the door open. The possibility for them to pursue this, even if they don't make this a career, but keeping it a part of their life as part. And not shutting that off because they didn't have the opportunity. And I think arts for me, you know, I was in choir in high school.

[Josh Groban]

Nice.

[Lewis Howes]

Actually pursued. I did the theater my senior year because I was so scared of it.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Terrified.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

Of like dancing, singing on stage, Proud of you. But I was like, I. I don't want to regret this.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, right. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And I'm probably will never sing on stage, you know, but it's like I knew that I was like, do I want to leave high school? Not going for this.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

I did like tap dance class and like the theater, and it was terrifying. But I learned so much about myself.

[Josh Groban]

Right.

[Lewis Howes]

That I'm so glad I had that season.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, sure. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

You know, and I appreciate arts and I mean, I was the biggest Glee fan.

[Josh Groban]

Right.

[Lewis Howes]

Because I never could do it. But it's like this. The show is incredible for me.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And so the fact that you're doing this, I think is really cool because there's a lot of kids that, that stop being creative and artistic, whether it be drawing or singing or dancing or music. They stop when they feel like they need to get serious about life.

[Josh Groban]

Absolutely.

[Lewis Howes]

And you constantly say, hey, keep going. Here's a paintbrush, here's a drum set. Here's the door still open for you. And encouraging it and mentoring and coaching, I think is really cool.

[Josh Groban]

Oh, it's. It teaches me. And that's the thing about teaching is you teach yourself so much by teaching.

[Lewis Howes]

Yes.

[Josh Groban]

I learned so much by giving whatever wisdom because you unlock things you didn't know that you knew when you. When you were asked questions by young people and students about your life and things you. Oh, you know, I'm now preaching something that I really realized I needed to remember for myself too. So that's. That's the most fun part of that.

[Lewis Howes]

That's cool, man. This question I ask everyone towards the end, it's called the three Truths Question. Imagine, hypothetical scenario, you get to live as long as you want in this life, but it's the last day, okay? Last day for you on this earth.

[Josh Groban]

Yeah.

[Lewis Howes]

And you get to create and accomplish and go on a thousand side quests and everything you want to do, but for whatever reason, you got to take all of your work with you. So all of your songs, your albums, this conversation, for whatever reason, it's not here anymore for people to experience. But you do get to leave behind three lessons to the world. I call it three truths. What would those three truths be for you?

[Josh Groban]

I think that at the end of the day, truly, you know, it's the old phrase, but the love you make is equal to the love you take that honestly. The. The more that you put into the connectivity and kindness towards the people around you, the more that you get back. That's. I know it's cliche, but honestly, like, it's. There is so much cynicism sometimes around you, and especially in high pressure environments or in the arts or certainly in entertainment, more than just the arts themselves. But there's so many ways to think about how to step over that. Taking, taking those beats. Every moment that you can to express kindness to other people comes back at you. Stay scared. Stay a student. You know, the people that I've been lucky enough to meet, that have been heroes of mine, still have a vulnerability in their eyes to learn a new thing, even though that to the rest of us, they're gods on earth. They can't wait to learn the next thing. And the final thing, stay hungry for, you know, all of it, food included.

[Lewis Howes]

That's great, man. Final question. What's your definition of greatness?

[Josh Groban]

Oh, my definition of greatness? Gosh. I think that, you know, I think that greatness is sometimes, I think one of those things that you can't necessarily control. Greatness, I think, is when. Is when you can be looked. Looked at by those around you that you've touched as being somebody that they aspire to be or look up to. I think the people that have exhibited greatness in my life, when I look at my folks and I look at the teachers that to this day I will always call them by Mr. And Mrs. Because they are. They have that aura to me. And I looked up to them and I wanted to be like them because they did it for all the right reasons, even when nobody was looking. And I think being the kind of person that people feel that way about, I think is what greatness looks like. There's a whole lot of people who've done great things that I don't think have achieved greatness.

[Lewis Howes]

Yeah.

[Josh Groban]

And I think that that's, that's the way to go about it.

[Lewis Howes]

Josh, thanks for being here.

[Josh Groban]

Hey, thank you. It's been a real pleasure. Thanks for having me. Of course.

[Lewis Howes]

That's powerful man. I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy and if you are looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life. But you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to make money easy book.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment moving forward. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.

[Josh Groban]

At Capella University. Learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success, like your enrollment specialist who gets to know you and the goals you'd like to achieve. You'll also get a designated academic coach who's with you throughout your entire program. Plus, career coaches are available to help you navigate your professional goals. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn more at capella.edu did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores Automate allowance and keep an eye on your kids spending with real time notifications. Kids learn to earn, save and spend wisely, and parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money. With guardrails in place. Sign up for Greenlight [e-mail] podcast.