← The School of Greatness
The School of Greatness
Lucy Hale Opens Up: Getting Sober, Mental Health & Manifestation
01:54:00
Lucy Hale reveals her unexpected battle with alcoholism at the height of Pretty Little Liars' success, detailing her three-year sobriety journey from rock bottom to spiritual rebirth. This raw conversation unpacks how fame amplified her unworthiness and explores the path to authentic self-acceptance in Hollywood's spotlight.
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- [00:00]
Lewis Howes
True alignment happens when we stop running from our darkness and start embracing all the parts of ourselves. Welcome back, my friend, to another episode of the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guest today. We've got Lucy Hale, who's going to really open up and share in a big way about her personal experience of hitting rock bottom a few years ago and how it led to a spiritual awakening that transformed her relationship with herself and became a turning point towards sobriety and her healing journey. And I want to remind you that we are all on our own journey. You might be struggling, you might be going through adversity, you might be uncertain about the future, whether it be a relationship or your career path or some business you're working on. But I want to give you this daily affirmation. And that is when my mind drifts to fear or lack. Please remind me that abundance is always available to me. Remind me that I am supported, provided for, and surrounded by endless possibilities waiting to unfold. Help me to see the blessings already in my life and to welcome even more with an open heart. Let today be a reflection of trust, gratitude, and the abundant life I am meant to live again. You are meant to live it. But sometimes the darkness, the challenges, the adversities make us feel like we're drowning in stress, drowning in chaos, drowning in drama. And sometimes we have to break apart from the chaos, from the drama, from the stress. Find some stillness. Literally, get still. Turn off devices, turn off the tv, turn off the noise, and just be still. Sit outside, breathe, be still, and allow alignment to come into alignment. Sometimes when we're in chaos or overwhelm or stress, we don't have the moment or just a moment to reflect, to get back into alignment because we don't allow alignment inside of us because we're constantly reactive. So get to a place of calm, get to a place of understanding, and just be present in this moment. Because you deserve to feel peace and abundance. It is your birthright. But it's not going to be handed to you if you're not willing to do the work to create that inner alignment on your journey. And trust me, I have gone through so many ups and downs in my life where I felt like, is there ever going to be any peace? Is there ever going to be any freedom? Is there ever going to be any abundance? When I'm feeling fear, when I'm feeling scarce, when I'm feeling overwhelmed and I'm telling you it is possible that you've got to be willing to go within you. And there is some big moments in today's episode, you know, Lucy talks about why external success and validation couldn't fix her feelings of unworthiness and shame. And she's a massive, you know, superstar. She's got millions of followers. And the external success, it didn't validate her feelings that she really needed to feel. And it wasn't until she went through her own journey, which she's about to talk about in this interview and episode, where she started to learn how to create that peace and come back to herself. And you deserve to come back to you. The true essence of you is love, is peace, is joy, is freedom, is creativity. And you can't do that from a place of scarcity, stress or overwhelm. So I hope you enjoy this episode. Whatever you're going through in life right now, you deserve to live a free, harmonic, abundant life. But you've got to be willing to do the work. And sometimes that's facing the darkness, facing the demons and not numbing them or running away from them like so many of us have done over the years. I know I did it for a long time and I lived in a lot of pain. The more I ran away from it, the more I chased other things to try to fill me up. It never worked until I turned around, faced myself, and started giving myself what I needed to feel peace. And again, if you're enjoying this at any moment, please Share this with a friend. Text one or two friends and let them know that you heard this amazing episode with Lucy Hale on the School of Greatness and you want to hear their thoughts about it. You want to have a conversation about it and see what they learned about it as well. So send it to a few friends. Make sure to tag me, Lewis Howes, and tag Lucy Hale over on social media while you're listening or watching to this episode. And I'm very excited for us to jive in together. So let's go ahead and jump in with the one and only Lucy Hale. Good News Spring Savings are back at the Home Depot. The Home Depot has everything you need for that spring project you spent all winter planning. Save on top brand cordless power like mowers, leaf blowers, trimmers and more that you'll need to get started. And yes, you you can use the same battery to power them all and you can find them at the Home Depot. Whether you've got big plans for your backyard or you want to get patio ready with colorful flowers, planters and outdoor lighting, the Home Depot has you covered. Shop Spring Savings now at the Home Depot. Fuel your greatness with Wonderful Pistachios no Shells Wonderful Pistachios is a great source of protein with zero guilt. Each 1 ounce serving has 6 grams of protein, giving you over 10% of your daily value. Pistachios are known for their protein, fiber and better for you unsaturated fats for a combination that may help keep you feeling fuller longer. And now there's a new way to snack strong with unsalted no shells holding the salt, not the flavor for a snack that packs a protein punch. Visit wonderful pistachios.com to learn more. The School of Greatness is proudly sponsored by Amica Insurance. As Amica says, empathy is our best policy. That's why they'll go above and beyond to tailor your insurance coverage to best fit your needs. Whether on the road, at home, or traveling along life's journey, their friendly and knowledgeable representatives will work with you to ensure you have the right coverage in place. Amica will provide you with peace of mind. Go to ameca.com and get a quote today. Welcome back, everyone, to the School of Greatness. Very excited about our guests. We have the inspiring Lucy Hale in the house. So good to see you.
- [06:24]
Lucy Hale
What's up, man? I'm so happy to be here. This is. I mean, we've been trying to make this happen.
- [06:28]
Lewis Howes
We have for a while. We have been.
- [06:30]
Lucy Hale
And we. I wouldn't call them roadblocks, but we had some. The universe said not yet. Pause. Pause. The timing isn't right.
- [06:37]
Lewis Howes
This is the right timing.
- [06:39]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [06:39]
Lewis Howes
And I think whoever's watching or listening right now is going to. This is going to help so many people, no matter what they're going through or how they're challenged in their life right now. Because you have an amazing story. You've been in the public eye for the last, I guess 15, 20 years almost. You've had a massive career, millions of followers, tons of success. But for a long time, you had a lot of sadness and darkness inside of you and you were numbing yourself to try to overcome the insecurities that you were facing, even though you were in the limelight and had everyone turning to you, saying, wow, you're amazing or you're talented or beautiful or whatever it is. But you had these kind of insecurities inside of you that I've heard you talk about. And three years ago, you talked about as a moment that was almost rock bottom for you or was rock bottom for you. And I've heard you talk about this openly. But how can someone hit rock bottom a few years ago, after so much success and so much fame and so much attention, what does that feel like internally? And how do you decide to start making changes so you don't feel like you're at the bottom even when everyone else seems like you are on top?
- [07:55]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, I mean, it was a really unbelievably confusing ride to be on, because externally, how I showed up in the world, my Persona was successful on a big show, like, cool clothes, good eyebrows, like, all the things, right. But then I'd go home at night and I had this, like, unbelievable guilt and shame for having those things. Really, I did. And I think that that was just a limiting belief I acquired at some point as a kid of thinking that receiving meant selfish or that receiving meant you weren't grateful. And, like, I just had this idea that I needed to humble myself. And so I. I felt really guilty for a lot of the things I had. And I want to say that that sort of shame, to me, shame is the lowest you can get as a human. I think it's like the worst feeling. I think it's a really scary place to be in. And I want to say that that shame is what fueled the drinking and the numbing out and the. Because subconsciously I was sabotaging my life. Because I was saying I wanted success. I was saying I wanted a great relationship. I was saying I wanted, you know, to be respected. But I was doing things at the time. I wasn't conscious of them, but I was doing things. I was trying to implode my life because I felt like a fraud.
- [09:23]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [09:24]
Lucy Hale
And now, without getting too deep into it, I believe that we all have souls. And I believe that my soul really needed to learn the lesson of unconditional self love and unconditional self worth. And so I believe that my soul always knew I was gonna go through this and that I really do. And I'm sure I could talk about this forever of, like, why I think we're here on the planet. But one of my big lessons was learning to love myself. Even though I had done things that I knew were out of alignment with my truth, you know, and really, like, understanding why I was making certain decisions and, like, really getting curious about why do I want to sabotage my life? Why do I dislike myself so much? And, you know, and then it took the path of sobriety. And to me, sobriety represents so much more than just not drinking or doing drugs. It represents getting to the core of the wound and then getting your life back in alignment. And it took like 15 years of trial yeah, man. Like, I. I struggled heavily at the peak of my success with the TV shows on Pretty Little Liars. I was at my absolute darkest, most shameful. And so, like, that juxtaposition was unbelievable to me because. And it's really proof that you can have all the things you say you want and still feel empty. Because what was happening for me is I thought everything outside of me was going to make me happy. I thought the job, the boy, the money, the whatever, I was like, this. That's really going to fix me. And it shocker, like, it doesn't. So, yeah, it took a lot of trial and error, a lot of really trying. It's not that I didn't try. I really, really, really always wanted to feel better and to understand myself more. And I had many rock bottoms, though that would have appeared worse on paper. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Some I'll take to the grave with me. A lot of rock bottoms, A lot of scary rock bottoms, a lot of really sad rock bottoms. Losing relationships, you know, my own physical danger, losing my career, like, all of these things. But the moment I got sober, it was the first time I had experienced, like a spiritual intervention because that's really. I could still cry thinking about this moment because it was so visceral. It was.
- [12:13]
Lewis Howes
Where were you? Like, what was this?
- [12:15]
Lucy Hale
I was in Austin, Texas. Okay, I love Austin. I need to go back and make new memories there. But it wasn't like a crazy time. Like, nothing really, quote, unquote, bad happened.
- [12:27]
Lewis Howes
You have like a near death experience.
- [12:28]
Lucy Hale
Or like, I mean, I had in the past, but this time it wasn't. I just remember I woke up and it was almost just like I knew that if I did not change my life from that moment forward, I was going to lose everything, really, and maybe even my life. Like, it was that. It was that clear to me. And it was a sensation I felt. And I felt the presence of, you know, a higher power that loved me a lot and was like, listen, listen, girl. You know, it's not too late. Because I felt like it was too late because I had tried for years and years and years.
- [13:11]
Lewis Howes
What did you try? Was it like therapy and ayahuasca and, like, I tried spiritual retreats and meditation, kind of all these things.
- [13:19]
Lucy Hale
So I didn't start all the spiritual stuff until. That's the place I'm in now. But I mean, like rehab, inpatient, outpatient, every type of stuff. Yeah, every type of medication. You know, I did try religion. I tried everything, everything. And nothing, really nothing stuck for me. And I really think that's because I believe patterns repeat in your life until all the lessons are learned. The same people will keep showing up, you'll keep making the same habits. Everything will continue on until you've, like, really wrung out that rag of all the lessons. And my God, for some reason, my soul's like, no, again, again, again. And I really did learn a lot about myself and, you know, through those 15 years of what I was running away from, I mean, I didn't even realize until I actually got sober. And the clarity and clear mind for a year, like, how much sadness and rage and anger I was holding onto, that was so old.
- [14:25]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [14:26]
Lucy Hale
Like, it felt ancient. And I, you know, that really is my biggest lesson in being sober, is being able to speak up for myself and set boundaries for myself and honor my truth. Because that is why I was drinking. I was drinking not because I like to take tequila shots and, like, run loose in the streets of la. No, I was drinking because that in some weird way allowed me to be. To unleash these, like, parts of myself that I really didn't want to. I felt like I couldn't behave that way in my normal life. And so I do have a lot of darkness in me and a lot of depth and a lot of, I don't know, whatever you want to call it. And. And it scared me, I think, a lot of my life, but now I kind of run towards that because I think people who struggle in this way or struggle with anything, it's just because we're afraid of our own power. And I'm not anymore. And if you can't tell, I love talking about this because this was bottled up for a really long time because I was like, well, I can't talk about it because no one's gonna hire me. Like, I can't talk about it. No one's gonna wanna date me. I can't talk about it. People are gon be scared of me. But when I first spoke about this a couple of years ago on another podcast, the amount of people that I have connected with and the amount of people who are like, that helped me get sober or that helped me realize, like, how I'm sabotaging my life, and that's why we talk about these things. That's why you do what you do. It's because it's so important to be that ripple effect in someone else's life.
- [16:13]
Lewis Howes
So how long were you using alcohol then to numb the pain or to numb the. The lack of ability to create boundaries in your life? Or speak up or, like, own your power.
- [16:27]
Lucy Hale
I mean, the funny thing about my old friend alcohol is that it starts out as a really good friend. Right? Like, it's sneaky and. But I want to talk to you because you don't drink.
- [16:38]
Lewis Howes
I've never been drunk in my life.
- [16:40]
Lucy Hale
Okay. I need to. I'm going to circle back around to.
- [16:42]
Lewis Howes
This because is there any benefit to drinking?
- [16:45]
Lucy Hale
No.
- [16:46]
Lewis Howes
Zero.
- [16:46]
Lucy Hale
Not for me, because I've never been drunk. Okay. But not for me. So this. So there are certain people who, like, it blew my mind that people could just have a glass of wine. Because if Lucy over here had a glass of wine, like, I'd be buying the whole place Jaeger bomb shots, like, two hours later. Sure, I am an extremist, which is a blessing and a curse, but you can't say I ever didn't, like, go 100% with drinking, because I went. And the other thing is, I never knew if it was going to be fun or if it was going to be, you know, blacked out, crying on the phone to, you know, someone I'm going to regret talking to. But I used alcohol.
- [17:29]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [17:29]
Lucy Hale
So it was a slow creep up. It wasn't. It was always very clear, looking back in hindsight, that I was a binge drinker from the beginning, but I would say around, like, early 20s, because I went to rehab at 23.
- [17:46]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [17:47]
Lucy Hale
Yep. And I. That didn't work. It did for a little bit.
- [17:53]
Lewis Howes
But what really needs it? If rehab doesn't work for you or didn't work for you, what is the thing you needed to heal your soul or to get in alignment, to say, I don't need alcohol to allow me to feel safe or whatever it is. Like, what did you need at 23? At 30, at 34, when you're in these kind of rock bottom moments where you turn to alcohol to numb or feel protected, what is it your soul really needed?
- [18:21]
Lucy Hale
I mean, I do believe in the divine timing of my life. So at those moments, I did have what I needed. But I think what I really was craving was, I mean, honestly, like, simply put, my connection with a higher power, my spiritual. I was spiritually broken is what I was.
- [18:44]
Lewis Howes
You're spiritually bankrupt.
- [18:45]
Lucy Hale
Absolutely. Wow. And that brought on more shame because even as a little kid, I was, like, highly connected to God. Like, I remember speaking out loud and speaking to the universe and literally daydreaming about being in la. And I manifested that for my life. And at some point along the way, I just. It's not like that left Me, I cut myself off from that. That connection's always there.
- [19:10]
Lewis Howes
Interesting.
- [19:11]
Lucy Hale
As people, we just forget, Suppress. Cut it off. But I think what I really needed was. Well, I needed to get scared shitless is what I needed. And that's what happened when I got sober. I was scared. I was very scared. And not everyone needs that, but I needed. It was like someone was shaking me to wake up, and so I had to be so scared because I. It's not like I wanted to die. I wanted to live. And I needed. I needed my connection with something bigger than me.
- [19:42]
Lewis Howes
And what scared you?
- [19:44]
Lucy Hale
Oh, I just. I was like, do I make it out of this, or is this gonna be my life?
- [19:50]
Lewis Howes
This. Three years ago, Three years ago, I'm.
- [19:52]
Lucy Hale
Like, is this gonna be my life? Because I was just in this powder.
- [19:56]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [19:56]
Lucy Hale
Psych. For years. And I was so physically, mentally, emotionally tired, I couldn't even. I literally couldn't even look people in the eye because I was so ashamed of who I was.
- [20:06]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [20:06]
Lucy Hale
Because, like, there was just a moment in my life, all I did was wear sunglasses because I was like, people see right through me. I was just really lost.
- [20:15]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [20:16]
Lucy Hale
Really, really lost. And the second I stopped running, I was just tired of running. I was like, for what?
- [20:24]
Lewis Howes
And what were you running from?
- [20:25]
Lucy Hale
I think I knew that there was, like, this box inside of me that I had, like, chained, locked up. I didn't even know where the key was. I was like, no, no, no, it's good. We can just, like, shove that down as far as possible. And I. But I knew throughout all of this that if I just opened the box, sat with it, slowly unpacked it, that it would be okay, because I knew that all the answers were there.
- [20:53]
Lewis Howes
Interesting.
- [20:53]
Lucy Hale
My answers were all inside of me. It's never going to be outside of me.
- [20:58]
Lewis Howes
And the more successful you became, or the more in the spotlight or the bigger the audience is.
- [21:02]
Lucy Hale
Another way of numbing out, of course.
- [21:03]
Lewis Howes
Like, let's do another movie, another TV project.
- [21:05]
Lucy Hale
Look at people like me. Look at these followers. Look, I'm number one on a call sheet. And listen, let me preface with I love what I do. My job has saved my life in so many ways. The fact that I get to create and collaborate, it's just blows my mind that I get to do that. But it was such a fancy Band Aid for a long time because my success was completely running parallel with my struggles.
- [21:37]
Lewis Howes
Gosh, that's interesting.
- [21:38]
Lucy Hale
It's really weird. It's really weird.
- [21:40]
Lewis Howes
The more successful you became, you also felt more struggles. Piled on top of that.
- [21:45]
Lucy Hale
Exactly. And I felt like my issues with alcohol or numbing out were getting worse. Wow. Yeah.
- [21:54]
Lewis Howes
How did you function on set or in projects when you were numbing out at night? Every night?
- [22:00]
Lucy Hale
I was really clever about my. My, My ways because I wasn't drinking during the week because my job was important to me. But when I would go, I would go. Like, weekends were mine. I was like, you know, the weekends are mine. And, you know, they normally were blacking out and not remembering what I did. And luckily, I, you know, had people, you know, I was safe. But how I mentally and emotionally functioned, I don't know. Like, I have memories of being at work and, like, truly having to walk away because I was like. I was like, people. People know what's going on. Like, I. I wasn't there, though. Like, a part of me was not there because I was just. It was survival. It was like, fight. What is it? Fight or flight. All the time.
- [22:49]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [22:50]
Lucy Hale
And it. I just now, before we started, you were like, you feel so grounded, and it's just. I just now, after three years, wow. My nervous system is like, oh, we can relax now.
- [23:01]
Lewis Howes
I was gonna say your nervous system seems, like, more safe.
- [23:04]
Lucy Hale
It does.
- [23:05]
Lewis Howes
More in alignment.
- [23:06]
Lucy Hale
Yes.
- [23:07]
Lewis Howes
And you're probably, you know, you're really great at eye contact, but it sounds like three years ago, you wouldn't have been able to do this.
- [23:12]
Lucy Hale
No, no. God, no.
- [23:14]
Lewis Howes
Because of the shame of someone seeing through you. And I can. I can relate to that. Growing up, dealing with sexual abuse as a kid, I felt ashamed because I never told anyone for 25 years. Yeah. That it's such a burden that if people really knew this about me, no one would love her except me. And so I was in the. Let me perform. Let me achieve. Let me, you know, be great at something in sports or whatever to mask the pain.
- [23:40]
Lucy Hale
When did you start talking about that?
- [23:42]
Lewis Howes
12 years ago.
- [23:43]
Lucy Hale
And did it feel like you could finally be yourself when you could?
- [23:46]
Lewis Howes
No, I felt like I was going to die. Like, I felt like. It felt like I had to say it. Yeah. Finally. But that my life is over.
- [23:54]
Lucy Hale
Because you thought people would.
- [23:55]
Lewis Howes
I just thought no one would accept me. People would make fun of me, people would judge me.
- [23:58]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [23:59]
Lewis Howes
I mean, but it actually. The. The. You know, The. The pain, the trauma, Once I started to process and heal and started to share, it became more of a superpower to be able to connect and empathize and understand people and be more relatable to other people who'd been through something similar. Yeah. But I thought it was gonna ruin my business and my life and no one would ever date me, you know, all these things. I was like, everyone's gonna make fun of me.
- [24:27]
Lucy Hale
But it's true that when you truly honor your truth and live from the most authentic place. Because I had similar feelings, I was like, after I did the podcast, I.
- [24:37]
Lewis Howes
Was like, well, my career's over.
- [24:39]
Lucy Hale
Bye bye Hollywood. You know. But I was welcomed with so much warmth and so much love. And so it actually I could still cry thinking about it because I never thought I was deserving of that. And it just goes to show that when you honor that who you are, there's no one else on the planet like you or me. And when you live in that truth, people, they have no choice, but they don't have to like you. But they can say, damn, I respect that.
- [25:09]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, I respect it. Yeah. One of the scariest things is being your most authentic self and people not accepting you. But one of the most beautiful things is being your most authentic self and everyone accepting you for who you are. It's like makes me emotional thinking about it because it's. I think it's what we all want. Acceptance. We want to feel seen and acknowledged for the human being we are. And when we have shame, guilt, insecurities, not enoughness, unworthiness inside of us, then we want to hide and protect those things inside of us that are afraid from other people seeing that. Or we over perform or we people please or we do things to not create boundaries of authenticity, to try to be accepted within groups in society.
- [25:56]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [25:57]
Lewis Howes
And we've become a different person, a different version that is not truly us, authentically us.
- [26:03]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [26:03]
Lewis Howes
And all we really want is to be accepted and seen for who we really all. Even all the mess in scary parts inside of us. And it sounds like you were masking that for a long time.
- [26:14]
Lucy Hale
For a long time. But. But also to add another layer to that being your authentic self and not caring if people don't like you. Because if you're truthful to you, like, and that's the best feeling for me. I don't know if you relate to this, but like there's really nothing I would change. I mean there's always growth and evolution of self, but there's nothing I would change about myself. I'm not hiding. There's no skeleton.
- [26:37]
Lewis Howes
Well, you're taking some stuff to the ground.
- [26:39]
Lucy Hale
I'm like, there's some things that come with me but like.
- [26:42]
Lewis Howes
But you don't need to share everything with the world.
- [26:44]
Lucy Hale
Also yeah, yeah, but like I'm me and if you don't like what I'm saying, turn it off. If you don't, don't follow me. But like, this is me and I can sleep at night knowing that I'm truly in alignment with hopefully one of the better versions of myself.
- [27:01]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. And then something that just came up for me is like, yeah, we don't need everyone else to like us as long as we like us. And it sounds like for 15 plus years. Again, correct me if I'm wrong, you had 10, 20, 30 million followers who loved and liked you, but you didn't like you. Yeah, too many people stay in relationships that no longer serve them and the moment they choose to walk away, they wonder why they didn't do it sooner. The best things in life come when you don't settle. That's why switching to Metro is a great choice. Because at Metro you don't just get great deals, you get even more of what you love. You shouldn't have to put up with the yada yada you find with other carriers. Things like hidden fees, contracts and underwhelming deals. That's why at Metro you can get great deals on 5G devices from top brands like Samsung. With no contracts, no credit checks, no exploding bills and nada, yada yada. That's wireless without the gotcha. With more 5G phones to choose from and incredible deals, you'll never feel like you're accepting less than what you deserve. Stop by your neighborhood Metro store and learn about their amazing deals. Go to metrobyteamobile.com, to find a location near you. You spend a third of your life in bed. Shouldn't you get a pillow that's customized to your sleep? Upgrade your pillows with Coop Sleep Goods. They design adjustable sleep products that accommodate to your unique size, shape and sleep position so you can rest comfortably and wake up feeling your best every day. And whether you're a side sleeper, a back sleeper, or even a starfish sleeper, Coop makes it easy to find the perfect pillow for you with their Sleep Quiz. They even offer free pillow consultations with their Sleep Expert so you can optimize your sleep. Martha and I just took Coop's Sleep Quiz and we learned that the Cool plus pillow is the best choice for us. I hate feeling like I'm overheated while I sleep and this specific pillow is made with gel infused memory foam which is designed for 50% more breathability. So I'm super excited to try these pillows out. Visit coop sleepgoods.com greatness to get 20% off your first order. That's C O O P sleepgoods.com greatness.
- [29:14]
Lucy Hale
Introducing Instagram Teen Accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow.
- [29:18]
Lewis Howes
Like, making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
- [29:20]
Lucy Hale
All right, buckle up. Good job. New Instagram Teen Accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your.
- [29:26]
Lewis Howes
Teen and the content they can see. So what's the point of having hundreds of millions of followers adore you if you can't love you?
- [29:37]
Lucy Hale
It's. Yeah, it really ate away at me, and it really messed with my head. I now look back and I'm so proud of. I mean, even though I handled it in a specific way, I am so proud of that juxtaposition because, like, it actually should have gone worse. You know what I'm saying? Because of how I felt. And I really. I've always kind of felt like in my life that I. I'm kind of this, like, lone ranger. Like, I want to do it myself. I felt a little misunderstood in my life, and I definitely felt that way during that period of my life. And, yeah, just, like, reflecting back on how I used to feel, it feels like almost like a different lifetime ago, but I can still. It still resonates, but, you know, I still. There's still things I struggle with, of course, but it really is the best gift to say, you know, what I did. It's not even, oh, yes, I love myself, but it's more like, wow, I really did my best today. Where can I do better tomorrow? Like, who can I apologize to? Like, is there any way to, like, clean up my side of the street? How do I challenge myself more? And now I'm just obsessed with, you know, I want to know more about myself, and I want to speak more with people and connect more with people. Yeah, I'm like, Border. My friends, bless them. I'm like, they hear me talk about all the different things that I try. Like, I'm obsessed with spirituality and self help, and definitely I've funneled my addictions into that, but I think it's better.
- [31:18]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, it's better than alcohol.
- [31:19]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, I would.
- [31:20]
Lewis Howes
Eating disorder or something.
- [31:21]
Lucy Hale
I still love caffeine.
- [31:22]
Lewis Howes
Sure, sure.
- [31:23]
Lucy Hale
I love Diet Coke, but let me have my Diet Coke.
- [31:26]
Lewis Howes
Exactly. There's a quote that you shared that I want to talk about, and you said this. I made the choice on the morning of January 2, 2022, that I was going to do everything I could to get sober. I knew that if I continued on the path, I would have lost everything I cared about it was the scariest choice in my life, but also it's been the best gift. When I made the change, everything else changed. My whole life has changed. And again, we were talking about how this is, like, little over three years now on the journey of being sober, but really what it sounds like, the journey of committing to being in alignment with yourself. And when we step into alignment and allow our nervous system to heal, we don't need these things to make us feel better. We don't need extremisms of alcohol on the weekends or extreme foods or whatever it might be to feel peace.
- [32:25]
Lucy Hale
It's so true. And that, to me is. I don't even like to use the word sober sobriety, because to me, it's. Yes, I am sober, but it's less about not using drugs and. Wait, using drugs, drinking alcohol, and it's more. I love myself and my life so much. I would never do anything that's gonna threaten my peace. And that applies to people, that applies to environments, that applies to substances, that applies to everything. My peace and a calm nervous system is my top priority. And so it's more about, like you said, like, anything that's gonna shift me out of alignment, I'm not doing it. I'm sorry. There's no. It's not even an option.
- [33:08]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. You mentioned that when you were growing up, you felt connected to God. You would speak about God, you felt connected. You were either listening from a place of openness to God. And then it sounds like when you got to LA and you started getting into the industry, God kind of. You kind of either blocked God away from you or just focused on the material world more rather than the spiritual world, it sounds to me like as you started to heal the little girl inside of you.
- [33:35]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [33:36]
Lewis Howes
And reclaim the version of you, that little child inside of you that is. That had that wonder and possibility and pure light and joy. It sounds like you've gotten closer to God in your own version. What has that journey been like for you? Reconnecting to God and reconnecting to little Lucy inside of you? That was really a channel of spiritual joy.
- [34:03]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. I feel like this whole journey has been. I'm not a changed person. I'm just going back to who I always was. It was like coming home to myself was like. And, you know, and we all experience that. Like, life happens, happens, heartbreak happens. And it's like we just get all this stuff piled onto us and we're like, wait, I'm in here. Like, please come find me. And so I always have Felt really connected to my inner child. And. But I knew that my inner child or little Lucy, like, I took on a lot of stuff early on, and so I knew that a lot of my healing was. And I think that's why I avoided it for so long, is because I knew that I was going to not have to live in that space again, but have to really acknowledge what I felt and what I went through and who did those things. And it's just. I was like, I'm not dealing. And, you know, for 20 years, I was like, I'm not dealing with it. But. But what I realized is nothing's ever as scary as we make it up to be in our head. And you don't. I was like, now. Now I realize I don't have to attach to those stories that we like. I was giving so much of an identity to alcoholic victim. I was complete victim mode. And we don't have to do that. Real healing lies in letting. Feeling it, you know, and then completely letting it go. Half. Not even half. All of the stuff that weighs us down are not our burdens to carry. None of it's our.
- [35:42]
Lewis Howes
And so why did you think you made it your burden to carry?
- [35:47]
Lucy Hale
I think when you're a kid, you just do. You just do. Kids are pure, you know, it's like, oh, you have no choice, really. And then I moved to LA young and grew up really quickly. I was surrounded by adults. I was making a lot of money early. I like, you know, it was just kind of an expedited childhood. I didn't go to high school, I didn't go to college. And so there was a mixture of, like, wanting to be normal mix intertwined with all of that as well.
- [36:16]
Lewis Howes
When did you move out here?
- [36:17]
Lucy Hale
But I moved out when I was 15, so I've lived here for 20, a little over 20 years.
- [36:21]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [36:21]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [36:22]
Lewis Howes
You really grew up young.
- [36:23]
Lucy Hale
I did. I did. I mean, I guess, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, this is definitely. But. But all that being said, I. I feel like the journey of my life, it still would have been the same thing whether I was back home or here or.
- [36:41]
Lewis Howes
But you feel like it was amplified here, though? Maybe.
- [36:43]
Lucy Hale
Probably so. But this. This ties back to my soul. Had a, you know, has a plan for me. There were bookmarkers I needed to reach. There's a million different ways I could have reached those bookmarkers. That's free will, right? But. But I needed to learn some lessons. And, you know, they're tough, tough lessons, but, yeah, I really do Believe I would have dealt with similar themes. Maybe just, you know, not in the public eye.
- [37:11]
Lewis Howes
Exactly.
- [37:12]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [37:12]
Lewis Howes
There's something you mentioned earlier. You. You talk about, you know, whenever I saw. I see you resharing some of the stuff on here, specifically about manifesting or with Dr. Joe Dispenza and kind of these top different topics. Yeah. I don't know if you've been to one of his events yet.
- [37:27]
Lucy Hale
No, I want to.
- [37:28]
Lewis Howes
He came and spoke at someone of greatness last year here in la. If I would have known you, I'd have had you come out. But next time.
- [37:33]
Lucy Hale
Next time.
- [37:33]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, but it sounds like you said earlier that when you were a kid, you were just dreaming and manifesting thing, coming to LA and having this career and getting these opportunities, and it sounded like you had a pure channel to God to be able to manifest your dreams and really go for it.
- [37:50]
Lucy Hale
I think so. And of course, as a kid, I didn't have the vocabulary of channel or manifesting, but what I. I thought I was just a really elaborate daydreamer.
- [38:01]
Lewis Howes
That's beautiful.
- [38:02]
Lucy Hale
But to the point, because I spent a lot of time alone as a kid. I didn't have many friends. I just. I genuinely loved being alone because then I could be in my head and I could create these environments that made me really, really happy. And so I did a lot of music growing up, so music was always my emotional valve and just that really got me through some stuff as a kid. But yeah, I mean, I have. I have memories of being in my house or backyard or whatever, on my trampoline and just knowing I was moving out of the city I was in. I knew I was destined to do something big. I knew it. And even at this point, I didn't even know what an actor was. I was just like. And this isn't, you know, talking bad about where I come from or my family. I was just like, I feel kind of like a square and a. You know, what's the saying?
- [38:57]
Lewis Howes
Round hole.
- [38:58]
Lucy Hale
Yes. I was like, I love my family, but something's not right here. I always just felt like the black sheep of the family, just in how I viewed people, the way I dressed, like my interests, everything. But yeah, now I look back and I was like, dang, I knew how to manifest. You did as a little kid.
- [39:17]
Lewis Howes
Well, here's the interesting thing, because you manifested your dreams as a kid when it seems like you had more possibilities in your mind and you were, I guess, closer to God or having a different relationship with God. But then when you were in la and you started to go down a darker inner journey. You know, externally, you kept manifesting still. You had opportunities and money and audience growth and it's like gig after gig.
- [39:42]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [39:42]
Lewis Howes
So what's the difference between manifesting from a pure connection to God versus manifesting from a darkness and a disconnection from God?
- [39:50]
Lucy Hale
So, okay, so there's a couple elements to this. Now, do I believe in manifesting? You don't have to believe in manifesting it. It is law. But I feel like my destiny as a person was always to be in la, so does that make sense? So, like, even if I was in a bad place in my life, like, my soul wanted to be here. But I would say the biggest difference in manifesting from. It's like I was manifesting things and they would happen, but I'd still have the feelings of unworthiness.
- [40:22]
Lewis Howes
Really?
- [40:22]
Lucy Hale
Yes. And what's really interesting about, like, I manifested some things after Pretty Little Liars and it was a couple of TV shows. And I'm talking I did like three TV shows in a row that got canceled. And I was like. But you know what it was? It's because I had this limiting belief that I didn't deserve what you had already before what I had already, or that I had already peaked or that, you know, and so I was manifesting jobs that weren't going to follow through.
- [40:53]
Lewis Howes
Interesting.
- [40:54]
Lucy Hale
Oh, my God. And we were talking about, like, money beliefs earlier. Everyone read Lewis Howe's book, but, like, I've had to really re. Establish a healthy relationship with money and with success and realizing that success doesn't equal bad or evil to me. More success equals. Equals wow. I get to connect with so many people or wow, I get to create content, movies, TV films, that's really going to help people or entertain them or give them a break from their day. David has really helped me with all of this stuff. And so my life has felt like a series of trial and errors like most people's. But then I realized, oh, my God, I realize my part in it because we are manifesting every second of every freaking day. And the biggest, like, if anyone takes anything from this podcast, it is get really comfortable with your thoughts and make sure you're focusing more on the positive than the negative. I feel like what I realized was I was latching onto something. So many negative, limiting beliefs that were really hindering my. My growth as both an artist and a human.
- [42:14]
Lewis Howes
Interesting.
- [42:14]
Lucy Hale
And I was blaming other people. That is the worst thing you can do is say, well, I'm not getting this job because this person's not working hard enough for me or. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. We are so in control of whatever we want to create. And that's a scary concept for a lot of people to accept. A lot of people don't, don't want to accept that. But it is my belief. It is my belief that we are master, master creators and we are so powerful. And like, how cool that. I mean, look, I'm sitting here, like, two years ago, I was like, dang, I really love this podcast. And I was like, I could really see myself on this podcast and here I am. But we're also manifesting little things, like a cup of tea. It's just. I love it. I think it's fun to play once you get familiar with how it all works. It's fun to now.
- [43:04]
Lewis Howes
But you mentioned something earlier about, like, you felt like you're a victim for a long time.
- [43:08]
Lucy Hale
Right.
- [43:08]
Lewis Howes
Like you were living in victim energy.
- [43:10]
Lucy Hale
Yes.
- [43:10]
Lewis Howes
Obviously you were creating stuff. And from the outside, you know, people didn't see your failures, even though you had three shows that didn't extend after the first season or didn't get picked up after the pilot or whatever. Yeah, but everyone else on the outside is seeing you win, except for maybe close industry friends hearing about something.
- [43:29]
Lucy Hale
Trolls on the Internet.
- [43:30]
Lewis Howes
Exactly.
- [43:30]
Lucy Hale
Whatever.
- [43:31]
Lewis Howes
Like, oh, it didn't work out for you, but it sounded like you were living in a victim energy inside of you and it's because you weren't feeling worthy or deserving of the success or like, I've already received too much success and I shouldn't have received that much anyways.
- [43:46]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [43:47]
Lewis Howes
When did you start to shift out of victim and unworthiness energy into hero or main character energy?
- [43:56]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, I love that.
- [43:57]
Lewis Howes
And into I am deserving and worthy of all the blessings that come to my life.
- [44:03]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [44:03]
Lewis Howes
When. How did you shift that energy from I'm undeserving to deserving?
- [44:08]
Lucy Hale
I mean, I feel like it was around the time I got sober. I mean, definitely a year or two before I got sober, I started having these, like, little glimmers of hope or like, things were really connecting for me spiritually or like how I was getting in my own way, how I was contributing to this sob story or, like, contributing to my own suffering, you know? And that is the biggest wake up call a soul can have is when they're like, oh, my God, this is my part in why I'm in so much pain. Because I think it's so easy for us to just, like, Blame, blame, blame, blame.
- [44:40]
Lewis Howes
So you were blaming who? Like managers or agents or like studios or.
- [44:44]
Lucy Hale
No, I mean I think I was just. Yeah, it was like people around me or other people in the industry or.
- [44:50]
Lewis Howes
Are you saying like this girl got it because of some other reason or what?
- [44:55]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, it was like, oh, I'm not, I don't look a certain way or I'm not a good enough actor or like whatever. These stupid stories that we tell ourselves that aren't true. Like I was just giving my power away too easily. And, and, and all of that started to shift when I first I had to get clear headed, right? It was like, okay, stop drinking, stop doing all this stuff and just like really, let's get back in alignment. And I had to be really clear headed. And you know, the first year of sobriety was really about just my environment changed, the people I was with changed. The second year was because you're not.
- [45:31]
Lewis Howes
Hanging out with the same people who are drinking.
- [45:33]
Lucy Hale
My whole life completely changed. But I have been lucky that a lot of like my family, I have some, all of my closest friends have been my friends for years, years, years. And they were, you know, stood by my side. But a lot of my life changed, looked different. The second year was more about like, okay, I need to integrate into the world and have fun. But I was, you know, I can't like sit at home in my house all day with my dogs.
- [45:59]
Lewis Howes
Although, it's pretty fun too though.
- [46:01]
Lucy Hale
Although. And then the third year, so the year I just came out because I'm in my, going to my fourth year, my third year was like everything changed really. Last year everything I had bottled up came to the surface. It was like I got hit with everything one after one and I was like emotional whiplash. And luckily work was, I had a lot of time last year to deal. You know, it's funny how those things I was like, thank you universe. Because I really needed time to sit with it.
- [46:33]
Lewis Howes
And if you're working all the time, you don't have time to, oh no.
- [46:35]
Lucy Hale
It'S like I'm busy. Like I'm booked and busy. I don't have to worry about my like emotions or whatever, like stupid. But I had the time and it was during that year where I realized, oh like if I change the way I think and I believe it and I embody that like I can change everything in my life.
- [46:59]
Lewis Howes
And so, so what were your thoughts like on repeat for two decades before you started to change your thinking?
- [47:06]
Lucy Hale
It was, it wasn't all bad. Like there were Moments. I think I've always had, like, an innate sense of purpose. Like, I always was like, I'm here to do something important. I haven't always known what that is, but I've always had. I always feel like I've been very open and I've had a good heart. Like, I wasn't just constantly, like, on myself, you know, But. But I think a lot of the limiting beliefs were playing small. I thought I needed to be really quiet.
- [47:37]
Lewis Howes
Really?
- [47:38]
Lucy Hale
And just. Yeah. Yeah, really. I thought because to me, the limiting belief of speaking up, setting boundaries, speaking your mind, I was like, oh, that is a troubled woman. Like, that is too much a theme in my life for all the girlies listening. I feel like it is a similar theme with women, feeling like we're too much, too emotional, too complex, whatever it is. And I really tried to make myself small, and it worked because I'm, like, 5 foot 2. I'm, like, I'm physically small, and I just need to be the nice girl, and I need to be really polite, and I need to do what people tell me, and then. Then, you know, I'm gonna be accepted and loved and adored, whatever. And it did kind of work for a while, but I felt. I didn't feel like myself because I do have opinions and I do have ideas, and I know what I want. I definitely know what I don't want. And it's so fun to be able to stand in a place of power while also being kind. I think I. I think. I thought if you spoke up, you were not kind, but it's just not true. Like, there's a way to do it.
- [48:51]
Lewis Howes
I think the most powerful human in the world is someone who can courageously share their opinions and create boundaries in a kind and conscious way. 100% not screaming and reacting and, like, get away from me, but actually, like, you know, what you just did, like, that doesn't work for me.
- [49:08]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [49:08]
Lewis Howes
And I want to let you know, maybe I'm misinterpreting something, but I need to have distance from you for a while. Or I need to create this boundary. But, like, actually having the courage.
- [49:16]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [49:17]
Lewis Howes
To disappoint someone.
- [49:18]
Lucy Hale
Yes.
- [49:19]
Lewis Howes
And have someone not like you.
- [49:20]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [49:20]
Lewis Howes
In order to create safety within you.
- [49:23]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [49:23]
Lewis Howes
Is one of the hardest things to do.
- [49:25]
Lucy Hale
The courage to be disliked. Like, that is powerful. What if you could use your home equity to pay off your debt without monthly payments so you could focus on reaching your other financial goals? With a home equity investment from HomeTap, you can get access to your home equity and cash. Get closer to financial freedom and get more out of life. Learn more and see if you pre qualify for an investment@hometap.com Subject to eligibility, terms and conditions apply. Get access to your home equity in cash. Visit hometap.com to apply in minutes. That's hometap.com hi, we're all modern. We're here to help you refresh your space for spring with the best of modern furniture and decor all in one place. Our team of modern obsessed experts hand vets each designed for quality. Plus we offer fast and free shipping. That's modern made for real life. Shop now@allmodern.com but guess what? You're actually doing things right if people don't like you. Because living in your truth. And I have found that when I've been, and it's kind of what we were talking about earlier, when I have felt the most aligned, been speaking my truth, like emanating my inner light, it triggers a lot of people.
- [50:40]
Lewis Howes
Oh, yeah.
- [50:41]
Lucy Hale
Oh, it triggers. I've had the amount of people. It's like there was a couple of people online that were like, I don't believe her phony. But it doesn't faze me because I know who I am. So actually, if you're pissing people off or people don't like you, you're doing something right. Because there has to be duality to everything. Not everyone's gonna love you. Not everyone's gonna adore you 100%. And actually it took the pressure off of me because I felt like I had to do that. And I'm like, it's too tiring.
- [51:10]
Lewis Howes
You don't need everyone to like you anymore.
- [51:11]
Lucy Hale
No.
- [51:12]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. And you can just be yourself.
- [51:13]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [51:13]
Lewis Howes
It doesn't mean you want to, like, try to piss everyone off.
- [51:16]
Lucy Hale
No. No. And I'm like, please love me, please love me, please love me. No. It's a good balance.
- [51:23]
Lewis Howes
That's great. Another quote you have talking about this whole journey. This was on, I think a three year anniversary post after getting sober. You wrote this on Instagram. It said, I began my journey in remembering who I am. Since then, I've experienced moments that can only be described as pure miracles and magic.
- [51:40]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [51:40]
Lewis Howes
What are a few of those moments in the last three years since being sober that have been miracles and magic for you?
- [51:46]
Lucy Hale
I think for me, I struggled a lot with being present in every sense of the word. I think that's why I liked being. I like being an actor is because I'm forced to be very present and I connected Those dots. I was like, oh, my God. That's why I gravitated towards it as a child, because it took me out of my head and I could just focus on whatever I was doing. But my life. There's so much stillness in my life the last couple of years, and I'll just have these moments where it's not anything profound. I'm just, like, sitting, drinking my coffee with my dogs, and I'll just be so moved to tears by how great I feel. It's almost like I can't believe I'm so comfortable in my own skin. I felt really afraid of myself for a long time. I was afraid of my choices. I felt like, you know, I felt like a wild card. And so to just be really. No, it's. It was really.
- [52:48]
Lewis Howes
You just didn't know any day you could be just something wild or crazy.
- [52:50]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, I mean, sober me, I was. But I was a people pleaser, and so I just never. I felt like I was trying on all of these different masks and none of them really felt like me. And so now I just like. What I meant by that, that quote about miracles and magic is I feel so connected to myself and I feel connected to my. I call them my team. My. My. My. My guide team up there. And I just am in awe of what I've been able to do. I'm in awe of other people. I feel like I have so much empathy for people and what everyone's fighting silent battles we know nothing about. I mean, I'm like the perfect example of that for 10 years. And there were so many people who. I don't have resentment towards them, but, like, they just didn't know what I was going through. And that's why it's so vital to be kind, to always be kind. And I don't think I would have garnered that amount of understanding or empathy had I not gone through what I've gone through. And I don't think. And I don't mean, like, enable people, right, but like, we don't understand anyone else's point of view or what people are going through. So just be patient.
- [54:15]
Lewis Howes
Do you feel like you were kind and patient with others?
- [54:22]
Lucy Hale
At moments, yeah. And then I would get mad that people wouldn't show up for me. And so then I'm like, oh, was I only doing those things to get something in return? Because that's not actually giving. If I'm giving my time or my energy just because I want them to show up for me, that's selfish. That's people pleasing and so that was a big wake up call for me to be like, oh my God, am I not as good of a person as I thought I was? Because people pleasing is actually selfish. Like you can still be a good person, but it comes from a. Yeah. And if I act this way, then I'll be accepted and loved and adored.
- [54:56]
Lewis Howes
That was most of my life. It was like trying to fit in or trying to make people happy, especially in intimacy was like I felt whenever I was single, I was so joyful and I felt like I could be my authentic self. And then six months after getting into a relationship, or nine months for whatever reason, I would choose people out of a wound. I'm not making these people wrong. I would choose them out of a wound where they never accepted who I fully was and they wanted me to change to make them feel safer or more comfortable or whatever. And then I would change to please them. And then I resent myself, I resent them, I resent the relationship. But I was like, I'm gonna try to do whatever it takes to make it work. And then I couldn't get out of the relationship. Cause I was like, I invested all this time and then it was like a cycle.
- [55:39]
Lucy Hale
And you were like attracting the same type of person.
- [55:41]
Lewis Howes
Same person.
- [55:42]
Lucy Hale
This is what I mean about the lesson will keep repeating until you.
- [55:45]
Lewis Howes
Until it got really painful. And then I was just like, I almost had a similar wake up call where it's just like, I can't live like this. I've repeated this five, six, seven times now over like 15 years or something. And I've got to look within. I've got to do some healing work. I've got to create boundaries in a conscious way. I've got to learn how to say no. I've got to learn to not people please all these things.
- [56:08]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [56:08]
Lewis Howes
So it was about four, four and a half years ago when I started the healing journey for myself in a different level. I started healing 12 years ago around sexual abuse, but then four and a half years ago around intimacy and relationship, around the people pleasing. And that's when everything started to change for me. Talk about miracles and magic. I mean, it's like I would not be able to create a sense of peace inside of me without doing that healing work. And I know you talked about healing the inner child. For about a year during my healing journey, I had a photo on my phone of my eight year old self. Right. And so every moment I looked at my phone, I was reminded to reclaim the boy inside of me and to say you know what I'm like, he was screaming at me through eczema or through chest palpitations, through, like, pain in my chest, through feeling like someone was choking me. It's like the boy inside of me was saying, take care of me. Yeah.
- [57:07]
Lucy Hale
Trying to get your attention.
- [57:08]
Lewis Howes
Stop neglecting me, and recreate that integrated healing of oneness, of all the parts of me. And it wasn't until I started to really heal the little boy in me and turn around and face myself and the darkness and the wounds and start integrating. That's when the pain left my body.
- [57:31]
Lucy Hale
That's so powerful, the way you just worded that. And I did talk therapy for many years, and we did a lot of inner child work, A lot of inner child work. A lot of, like, meditations where I visualize myself as a little kid.
- [57:42]
Lewis Howes
Me too.
- [57:42]
Lucy Hale
Even for my. It's interesting to do for other people, too, because if you're angry at someone, if you do a meditation or you can even journal about it, envision their inner child powerful. You can't be mad. It just like.
- [57:56]
Lewis Howes
So you see a little girl, a little boy who's hurt or sad.
- [57:59]
Lucy Hale
Everyone's wounded. We're all wounded. Okay. The thing I just posted today says the irony is that your light grows brighter the more you embrace your darkness. Isn't that crazy? The only way out is through. It's so, so true.
- [58:15]
Lewis Howes
And what did you learn about little Lucy when you started doing inner child healing? What did you learn about what she needed most that you were neglecting for her to receive?
- [58:27]
Lucy Hale
I think as a kid, and still sometimes now, I think definitely as a child, I didn't feel like I had emotional safety or I felt like I was. I was a very emotional child, very complex. Didn't know what to do with these big feelings. Like, I'm talking, like, really questioning some big stuff. As a small kid, what'd you question? Like, purpose of life? Like, I felt. I remember telling my mom when I was very small, I was like, I feel like I'm gonna die. Really, I feel like I'm gonna die young. I'm talking, like, three, four years old, crazy stuff. And so there was a darkness there. There was a desire to know. And I was curious about a lot. And I never really felt like I had a lot of people to connect to. And I'm sure, like, seeing a kid with, like, that kind of energy probably freaked people out. You know, as an adult, it's cool as hell. Like, I love it. I love that about me. But as a. As a little Kid, you know, you.
- [59:31]
Lewis Howes
Didn'T feel emotionally safe?
- [59:32]
Lucy Hale
No, I felt like if I were to express what I was truly feeling, there wasn't always an outlet to go to. Like, I. I spent a lot of time in my room crying because, like, that is where I felt safe to, like, actually be myself. And I think that's also why I spent a lot of time alone. I also want to say my parents are amazing, by the way. I'm not saying it was just. I don't feel like it was very different than a lot of other kids I knew. And. And that's why I think music came into my life, because I think it became this, like, safe space for me. But I. But I also think if I were to be sitting next to little Lucy, I think she just wanted to be understood and seen and able to cry if she wants to, able to laugh if she wants to. Like, just free. I think I just wanted freedom.
- [60:30]
Lewis Howes
Why did you not feel free?
- [60:32]
Lucy Hale
I think without going too deep, I. How do I word this? I think a part of me was really scared of what I was feeling. My intensity. I still get scared of my intensity sometimes. But also, my parents were divorced when I was young, and so I think when something like that happens for a kid around, like, four or five, I didn't understand what was happening. But of course, I'm absorbing the energy of that. And I wanted to make my dad and my mom happy. And so I was like a shape shifter. I could do whatever I needed to do. I realized early on if I acted this way, that made certain people happy. If I acted this way, it made certain people not happy. So I'm not gonna do that. So I'm just gonna be this person. And so I maybe took on some emotional burdens really young. Once again, no anger or resentment towards that at all anymore. I've sorted through that. But. But also, I think even before I moved to la, I was just. I was growing up quickly. And this is a lot of people's story, right? Like, I'm sure as parents, I'm not a parent yet. I'm sure when you're a parent, you're gonna screw up, you're gonna mess up. They were doing the best they could. And I have been really lucky that they've been very. My sweet mom, she's been so patient with me over the years. And I've always been very supported by both my parents. I think at times, maybe not understood by them. I think we're all different people. But I have a really good relationship with my mom. And a good relationship with my dad, too. I see parts of them in me. I definitely know what I've gotten from my dad and what I get from my mom. And it's such a nice place to have forgiven. This is what I mean about not blaming. How many people do you know are like, well, my so and so did this and that's why I'm this way. It's like, okay, keep telling yourself that and you're gonna keep being miserable.
- [62:38]
Lewis Howes
Right.
- [62:39]
Lucy Hale
So I was like, I'm gonna stop blaming all the characters in my life.
- [62:42]
Lewis Howes
When did you start stop blaming everyone?
- [62:46]
Lucy Hale
The last couple years.
- [62:47]
Lewis Howes
Really?
- [62:47]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. I mean, this is new. I.
- [62:49]
Lewis Howes
And how does it feel? I mean. Cause almost when you're blaming others, you're a victim to what they did.
- [62:54]
Lucy Hale
This is what I mean about the victim mentality. It was. That's what it was like, oh, well, I came from a child of divorce. It's like, yeah, Lucy, So it's like 90% of America. You know, like, get over it. Deal with it. Don't, don't, don't. Don't wallow in it anymore. Okay. That's the cards you've been dealt. What did it teach you? Everything's a learning experience. Everything that happens to you. Good, bad, ugly, pretty. Whatever is there to teach you. If you choose to take that route, and I do, it's exhausting. Sometimes I'm like, ignorance is bliss. But as you know, once you're on that path, there's no looking back. You don't stop. You don't just say, nah, I'm good here. No, keep climbing, keep going.
- [63:38]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, it's tough because once you've, I guess, started to heal and get out of. And really take full responsibility for everything and create meaning from the past pain. Not saying it's okay what things happen to you, but say, okay, this did happen and I can either be a victim to it, or I can take. Create meaning from it and see how I can be empowered from it.
- [64:01]
Lucy Hale
Exactly.
- [64:02]
Lewis Howes
Once I do that.
- [64:03]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [64:03]
Lewis Howes
Not excuse people's behaviors or whatever. Or actions, but meaning.
- [64:08]
Lucy Hale
That's what I was going to say. Like, with your experience, of course you didn't deserve that. Of course people don't deserve for those things to happen to you. Absolutely not condoning that. But it's like you. I'm sure you've had to say, okay, this is what happened. I didn't deserve it. And you've obviously taken such a beautiful path with it.
- [64:28]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. And you can. Well, I can either stay in victimhood.
- [64:30]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [64:31]
Lewis Howes
And let that anger fuel me, which I did for a long time. And it created results out of anger and out of frustration and resentment and feeling abused and taken advantage of. So I was driven to prove people wrong. Wow. And it got results. Anger is probably the second most powerful fuel in the world. It will get you what you want.
- [64:52]
Lucy Hale
So true.
- [64:53]
Lewis Howes
But you won't feel the way you want to feel. Once you get the results, you're not going to feel love, you're not going to feel peace, you're not going to feel alignment because you did everything out of anger. Revenge, proving, you know, I'm going to show them. I'm going to do something as opposed to, I'm going to show up for the greatest version of me and live an empowered life to serve and inspire people around me and really step into the version of me that I'm most excited about, that wants me to become something greater. And I think when we can step into that energy of like, this is a goal and a dream because it's going to help and serve others in the pursuit of this dream. It's just a fuel that is more renewable and it feels more peaceful.
- [65:35]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [65:37]
Lewis Howes
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- [66:05]
Lucy Hale
That's hometap.com hi, we're all modern. We're here to help you refresh your space for spring. With the best of modern furniture and decor all in one place, our team of modern obsessed experts hand vets, each designed for quality. Plus we offer fast and free shipping. That's modern made for real life. Shop now@allmodern.com so wait, so it's anger? Because I agree with you that anger is not necessarily about. But I also believe there's like a spectrum of emotions, right? And like you can't go from shame, depression, all the way to like bliss. You have to like work up the ladder, right?
- [66:43]
Lewis Howes
You've got to learn through the ladder.
- [66:44]
Lucy Hale
You got to learn through the ladders better. Yeah. But I do agree because you can.
- [66:48]
Lewis Howes
Only live in anger for so long, like it's not sustainable.
- [66:52]
Lucy Hale
Well, an anger causes so many disease.
- [66:55]
Lewis Howes
And cancer and frustration hurts and you react in different ways that you're, you know, you're Like, I wish I didn't say that.
- [67:01]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [67:02]
Lewis Howes
You have to repair a lot more from anger.
- [67:04]
Lucy Hale
So true. You're so much more reactive.
- [67:05]
Lewis Howes
And you're kind of like blowing and blowing through relationships and burning bridges. You're just like, ah, you know.
- [67:11]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [67:11]
Lewis Howes
And so you can get results. But is it going to be a rewarding one?
- [67:14]
Lucy Hale
It's so true.
- [67:15]
Lewis Howes
And I think the true reward comes from healing and feeling whole while you create. It doesn't mean you can't tap into the darkness or tap into the memories of the pain. But I think living in that space is very painful.
- [67:30]
Lucy Hale
What do they call it? Emotional alchemy?
- [67:32]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [67:32]
Lucy Hale
It's like transmuting it, transforming it.
- [67:34]
Lewis Howes
Transmuting it.
- [67:35]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. That's power.
- [67:36]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. It doesn't mean I'm, like, going to be perfect every day. I'm going to have frustration and anger, but it's like, how can I get back to a place of love and peace and calm?
- [67:45]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [67:45]
Lewis Howes
Really? Alignment.
- [67:46]
Lucy Hale
That's so true. And I think that, you know, when people haven't seen me in a while, they're like, oh, my God, you're just. You're doing great. And I'm like, I am doing great. But it doesn't. Just because you make certain choices doesn't mean that every day is just glowing, glittery sunshine. I mean, there are days where I'm like. I feel like I'm on drugs. Cause I'm so excited about life. Or passionate. Like. No, it's just like learning, oh, I'm having a really bad day, and I'm gonna let myself have a bad day. And then I'm gonna let it go and have a better day tomorrow and.
- [68:18]
Lewis Howes
Not stay in victimhood for too long.
- [68:19]
Lucy Hale
Oh, yeah. Cause it's easy. Oh, God, it's so easy to latch onto it.
- [68:23]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [68:23]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [68:24]
Lewis Howes
Now, how do you navigate? I mean, we don't have to talk about this if you don't want to, but how do you navigate?
- [68:29]
Lucy Hale
Is it about dating?
- [68:31]
Lewis Howes
I was like, relationships in general.
- [68:33]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [68:34]
Lewis Howes
It doesn't have to be about intimacy, but when you start to heal. Knowing what I've gone through in my past relationship journey of getting into relationships out of a wound.
- [68:44]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [68:44]
Lewis Howes
Versus getting into. Or being open to relationships out of wholeness or the journey of wholeness.
- [68:51]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [68:52]
Lewis Howes
How have you reflected on that? When you think about previous relationships and, I don't know, your dating history. That's not what this is about. But.
- [68:59]
Lucy Hale
Well, how long do you have?
- [69:01]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, but I mean, it's not. I mean, it's not really about like, who you're dating or who you're not or whatever. It's like, how do you navigate your vision for a relationship that you want and creating that in your mind. Daydreaming again in your mind about the type of relationship you want intimately or personally or professionally, and creating from that space of vision around values and around a person who's also on a healing journey or who's got growth, mindset not in victimhood or not being attracted to people who have shiny objects about them, but more attractive to their spiritual alignment. Have you thought about that in terms of working relationships but also intimate relationships?
- [69:43]
Lucy Hale
I think about it in every type. Friendships, family dynamics, romantic relationships, even people that I'm hanging out with just, you know, for a little bit. Definitely working relationships. I think all of those have changed astronomically when I started putting myself first, because what happens. Yeah, let's go. But I think it's. It's the type of people I was attracting in my past were people who were of a similar wound or were going to trigger my wound. I was like, caught in that cycle. And that's how the universe works.
- [70:21]
Lewis Howes
That's.
- [70:22]
Lucy Hale
I'm not a scientist, but like, there. Billy Carson can tell you how that works. Right. I. I also was attracting, you know, some relationships without getting too specific that weren't for my highest good. But now, oh, I think about this every day. But. But it's almost like I don't even need to worry about who's coming into my life as long as I'm true to me. Because if I'm embodying the person I want to be with, if I'm living from a place of love, of integrity, of value, of passion, whatever, I can only attract people who are that a.
- [70:56]
Lewis Howes
Mirror of that no one else can.
- [70:57]
Lucy Hale
Even break through that barrier. And if they do, I recognize it very quickly. And I'm sorry, but they got to go.
- [71:02]
Lewis Howes
Yes.
- [71:03]
Lucy Hale
Because like I said, my. Where I'm at in my life work too hard. I have a zero tolerance for people who aren't going to elevate my life.
- [71:09]
Lewis Howes
Yes.
- [71:10]
Lucy Hale
I'm not pulling people up. I can connect, I can support, I can be there. But especially in intimate relationships, like, we have to be of the same mindset. There has to be like a similar outlook in the world. Like, spirituality is very important to me. But yeah, I feel like I'm very clear on the type of people I want to spend time with. Definitely.
- [71:35]
Lewis Howes
What are those values to look for then with someone that could be an intimate partner or a professional Relationship. What are the values that they need to embody for you to feel like this is alignment of just being in relationship with you?
- [71:47]
Lucy Hale
I feel like transparency is super, super important to me. And I feel like when I have that, everything else is okay. Because if you're being honest and transparent with me, like, I can believe your word. I've been in so many dynamics where, you know, especially in L. A, people are like, oh, you.
- [72:07]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [72:07]
Lucy Hale
You know, they'll tell you one thing, and you never hear from them. Yeah. And I mean, it's more of. I don't know if it's exact values, but I'm seeking out people who are on a similar path as me, who are actively working towards getting to know themselves more, connecting with other people. But, yeah, I don't know how you feel, but when you're on this path, like, it's not that I don't want to say it's hard, because that is a limiting belief that it's hard. It's just. I feel like I'm in a phase of my life where it's weeding out the things that are not supposed to be a part of my life anymore. So cleaning it up, cleaning out, cleaning house.
- [72:51]
Lewis Howes
It's interesting. Transparency is so key, and I really think it's just pure honesty. Like, everything you say is an honest thing, and you're being authentic to the moment. And when I started. When Martha and I, my wife, started dating, she was asking me very. Just honest, real questions from the beginning. And I go, are you sure you want to hear the answers? Because people usually don't like certain answers of past stuff I've been through or whatever it might be. And she goes, yeah, I always want to hear the truth. I go, okay, well, I'm gonna tell you the truth about everything you asked me then, so be ready. But we'll see how you react. If you react where you're, like, hurt or upset or, like, angry about something in my past, then it doesn't work for me. Like, you have to be willing to receive and accept. Accept all of me in my past. It doesn't mean that's, like, what I'm doing now, but it's like, you got to understand all the complexities of me.
- [73:44]
Lucy Hale
I.
- [73:45]
Lewis Howes
And she was. And so from the beginning, I was just like, you sure you want the answer? She was like, yes. And I would tell her the answer to any question. And she was really great at not reacting with, like, negative or positive. Just like, thank you for being honest. Even if it was, like, hard for her to Hear something. She was like, thank you. And she didn't scream or react or run away or anything. And I think when you can be fully transparent with one another, your word becomes powerful and you can trust the person, right? But when you're not transparent and you're hiding even little lies here and there.
- [74:18]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, it adds up.
- [74:19]
Lewis Howes
It adds up. And then you're living, like, two different lives. You know, the truth inside of you, but you know you're not sharing that fully with the person in front of you. Right?
- [74:27]
Lucy Hale
And I think, you know, this ties back to what little Lucy needed. Like, I, I, I'm desiring emotional safety and for someone to look at me, look at all parts of me, everything I've done, the woman I'm becoming, the woman I am today, and say, I freaking love this woman. Like, I accept all parts of you and just feeling really safe. And I think that, that for me, like, I'm not gonna go into my astrological chart, but, like, emotional safety is so important for me. And to feel seen in that way.
- [74:59]
Lewis Howes
Is like, what are the, what are the things you do for yourself on a daily basis to create emotional safety for you?
- [75:08]
Lucy Hale
So I know my, I hate this word, but I know my triggers. It's so overused. But I know my, like, fault lines. I know what's going to take me. So it's really important for me to start my day with, like, pure energy. So I do my best to wake up. I'm not reaching for my phone. Like social media. I wish I could be one of those people where, you know, I look at social media for three minutes and I don't think about it, but it's not it. Like, my brain goes, I'm gonna grasp onto, you know, I'll just spiral. So I try to, you know, I stay off my phone. It's important for me to have a really intentional morning. And by that I mean whether that's meditating or outside walking with the dogs or just time where I can, I mean, I call it prayer time, but you can call it whatever, talking to the universe, talking to yourself. And I get really clear on what my soul wants me to do that day. I literally ask, what do you need from me today? And so sometimes I'll like, journal out, just like stream of consciousness writing. And sometimes I hear really specific things like, go do, go drive this way to get coffee or go to this coffee shop. Or sometimes I hear nothing. And that's okay. But I've been really leaning into learning to trust my intuition and really just getting comfortable with that and getting familiar. Familiar with what my higher self is trying to tell me to do. But, you know, I'm also really intentional about the places I go, the people I see. I love what I do, so I love being busy with work. But, yeah, I'm just very intentional about what I'm gonna step into. And if I do have to go somewhere where I know it's gonna be overwhelming, or maybe not somewhere I'd necessarily go, just protect myself with that white light, and I go. And then I. You know what I do every day when I get home from being around a lot of people? I shower, just get all the energy off, and I just literally imagine it going down the drain. So I do, like, a lot of cleansing stuff.
- [77:13]
Lewis Howes
That's cool.
- [77:14]
Lucy Hale
I do sound, healing, meditation, all the things, energy, work, Reiki. I'm obsessed, obsessed with astrology right now. And for me, it's important to remain curious and playful. I think we're all as we get. Obviously, when we get older, we lose that childlike curiosity. And I find that I'm happiest when I'm researching about some very niche topic. So I try to stay curious.
- [77:42]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, what about? I mean, I think that's beautiful. And playfulness is, I think, the key to staying young.
- [77:47]
Lucy Hale
Yes.
- [77:47]
Lewis Howes
Being playful. And you hear a lot of actors who are like, it doesn't seem like they age. And I feel like it's because you get to play all day. You're, like, playing character and you're playing fun and, you know, the role playing. And it's just like a. Yes and mentality. It's not a block. It's more of like, let me keep trying. Let me keep exploring.
- [78:02]
Lucy Hale
It's make believe.
- [78:03]
Lewis Howes
It is make believe.
- [78:04]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [78:05]
Lewis Howes
What is? You know, I keep hearing you talk about, you know, your spiritual practice. Do you hear messages from God? What is. What does God speak to you on a consistent basis? What are you hearing God say?
- [78:19]
Lucy Hale
I mean, it's more of. Sometimes it's not, like, specific words, but it's more of a feeling of just. Have you ever experienced this where you're just so overcome with gratitude that you have no doubt in your mind that you're in the exact right place in your life? And that's more what I feel these days. Like when I was gonna do the podcast and then saw you at the gym, it's like, moments like that, like, that is God. God orchestrates things in your life to let you know you're on the right path.
- [78:50]
Lewis Howes
Yes.
- [78:51]
Lucy Hale
The synchronicities, the signs are always There. So it's more of just feelings. I get goosebumps all the time. That is how I know I'm in alignment is it's usually only my left side. It's really interesting what happens if you.
- [79:05]
Lewis Howes
Get goosebumps on the right side.
- [79:07]
Lucy Hale
I'm screwed.
- [79:08]
Lewis Howes
It's a bad thing.
- [79:09]
Lucy Hale
I'm screwed. But I do hear, you know, sometimes in meditations, I've heard some interesting things. Like, I've heard. Do I go here?
- [79:20]
Lewis Howes
Yes.
- [79:20]
Lucy Hale
Okay. I heard. Yes. So I. I've heard, like, names. I really have. I heard a name in a meditation, and I had no idea what this name was, but I heard it very loudly. And I was like, I don't know a Doris. Who is Doris? So I called my mom, like, put it in my notes app, and I called her the next day. I was like, mom, do we have a Doris in our family? She was like, yeah, honey, that's your great grandmother.
- [79:44]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [79:44]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. So I feel really connected to people who have passed, and I feel like it's hard for me to be still. It's hard for me to quiet my mind. But when I do, the stuff that comes through is really. Yeah. Now people are gonna be like, lucy talks to dead people. I wish.
- [80:04]
Lewis Howes
When was the. So you moved here when you were 15?
- [80:06]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [80:08]
Lewis Howes
When did you feel like you started going off alignment, off the rails? Yeah. Kind of just like, all right, maybe it was small to start, but then it was like, what age do you feel like? Okay. I wasn't in that pure, like, consciousness as much anymore. I was starting to, like, be more in the material world, not the spiritual world, or get into the dark side a little bit more internally.
- [80:29]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. Probably like, 18.
- [80:31]
Lewis Howes
Okay.
- [80:31]
Lucy Hale
I think that was around when I was living on my own and I started making. And I'm not saying that living on your own and making money and success equals bad, but for me, yeah, it was around that time I was living on my own and my career was taking off. And if you don't have the right.
- [80:49]
Lewis Howes
Influences or environment around you, you could easily sway into other influences.
- [80:53]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, but it's also like if you're a teenager.
- [80:56]
Lewis Howes
Right.
- [80:56]
Lucy Hale
We were all doing that for a while. Everyone was wiling out. Everyone was staying up all night. And so I would say around, like, 18, 19, 20, I had the moments of. My behavior is a little different than everyone else's. And. Oh, I'm seeing some videos of myself, and that seems really scary. Or, like, the desire to want to continue the party. I don't even like calling it partying. Because that makes it sound like it was enjoyable, but, like, to continue to. I guess, like, the benders started because I was, you know, Was this just.
- [81:31]
Lewis Howes
Alcohol or drugs and alcohol or just.
- [81:34]
Lucy Hale
Mainly alcohol, but towards the end it was also drugs.
- [81:37]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [81:38]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [81:38]
Lewis Howes
Was there any, like, eating behaviors or.
- [81:41]
Lucy Hale
Oh, well, so. Yes. So that was actually my first kind of addictive behavior. Was I, like, undiagnosed? But I definitely had issues with it. I had a. From, like, 13 to mid-20s. And I actually think it was the eating disorder that fueled the drinking. Really one of the reasons, because I obsessed so much about my weight and, you know, the amount of calories or how much I was working out, that when I drink, I'd eat whatever I wanted, and I didn't think about anything, and I thought I looked decent enough to go. You know, it was. It just, like, really, you know, it gave my mind a break from all of that. And so I think it was a reprieve from that turmoil. Interesting. Yeah.
- [82:27]
Lewis Howes
And so it's like two extremes.
- [82:29]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [82:29]
Lewis Howes
Like, during the week, I'm counting calories and obsessing about what I'm eating. And then on the weekend, I'm drinking whatever and eating whatever as a kind of a release.
- [82:37]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. And that's pretty common for people with addictive behavior, is that you'll channel it into something different. So the 15 years where I was on and off sober, I did have long periods of sobriety, but the eating disorder would kick up and then, you know. So it was constantly being fueled, one.
- [82:54]
Lewis Howes
Addiction to the next.
- [82:55]
Lucy Hale
Yes. And that's really common. So a lot of people that get sober will fall back into ED territory or smoking or a lot of people. You know, I got addicted to sugar. I'm still kind of addicted to sugar. But a lot of people, like, early sobriety will just. Candy, candy. Caffeine, caffeine. You know what I never picked up, though? Smoking.
- [83:15]
Lewis Howes
It's probably shocking. It's a good thing.
- [83:17]
Lucy Hale
Shocking. I don't know. I was, like, in my mid-30s. I can't start now. There was a moment where I was like, should I. No.
- [83:24]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, yeah, maybe you're 21. It's different.
- [83:26]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [83:27]
Lewis Howes
Interesting. Okay, so 13 is when the eating disorder started around.
- [83:32]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. That's when I remember having abnormal thinking.
- [83:36]
Lewis Howes
What do you think that is? Is that more of just, like, trying to fit in in school, or is that more this stress from home life control?
- [83:42]
Lucy Hale
I think. I think I felt emotionally out of control. I saw things happening in my environment where that were really uncomfortable and So I don't want to speak for everyone but a lot of people I know who have struggled with disordered eating, it gives them a false sense of control of their life and it's like the one thing that's theirs when everything else feels like it's out of control. And it got really, the eating disorder got really heightened when I moved to la. I mean shocker. Because then it was not only the control thing, it was also I want to be an actress in la and I felt like I needed to look a certain way and the truth is I didn't. The truth is those stories we tell ourselves are not true. I mean, maybe a different time in the industry, but I'm sure I would have been accepted and loved had I not been doing that. But what's crazy is that I had the eating disorder, booked all the jobs. So I was like, well it worked. And so then it like further fuels these negative behaviors. It's kind of like the thing you're saying, anger will get you places. It's kind of the same mentality because I, you know, I was drinking and doing all this stuff, had the eating disorder but I was still getting results. The prize, but it didn't feel as good as I thought it was.
- [85:04]
Lewis Howes
False reward.
- [85:05]
Lucy Hale
Yes.
- [85:05]
Lewis Howes
And then you still don't feel like you still have the shame inside of you. You still have the unworthiness, the not lovable or you don't love yourself aligned.
- [85:12]
Lucy Hale
You're getting things out of alignment.
- [85:16]
Lewis Howes
This is so interesting. I talk about this in my book actually where it's like money doesn't solve all your problems or neither does fame or all these different things they don't solve. They might solve money problems that didn't solve self worth problems made them worse actually. Here's the thing it does. When I was broke on my sister's couch for a year and a half and then I started to make some money after building a business and it took a number of years, I started to make some money. I eventually on my own and I saved enough money where I was financially free for a couple of years. I could live and not work for a couple of years and I had enough money. I wasn't like Ballin for life.
- [85:51]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [85:52]
Lewis Howes
But I could live like under my means and be fine for a couple years. And I'd worked so hard to create this financial freedom but I still didn't feel emotionally free. And so I remember it was almost worse than being broke and emotionally broken because you think the job or the followers or the money is going to make you feel more free or more lovable or more enough. And it almost expands your level of unworthiness.
- [86:19]
Lucy Hale
It's such a hopeless feeling. I know this feeling so deeply in my soul. And it was always like, I have these benchmarkers where I'm like, okay, if I just book a job, then I'm gonna be happy. And then I'd get the job, and I'd be like, yeah, well, and it.
- [86:33]
Lewis Howes
Needs to be bigger. Yeah. Yeah.
- [86:34]
Lucy Hale
And it's. And it's like, when does it end? It doesn't end. There is nothing outside of you. Does money make life easier? Yeah. Does a great job make you happier? Yeah. Is it gonna fix the broken parts of you? No. Never. Not ever. The only thing that can do that is you and your connection to something bigger than you. The only thing that's gonna make you happy is already within you. You don't need to seek, search, make, spin. But then the great news is the byproduct of. Of doing that work and getting aligned is then you get the jobs, then you get the money, then you get the people that actually are in alignment with your truest self.
- [87:11]
Lewis Howes
And you can actually celebrate those moments.
- [87:13]
Lucy Hale
Yes. And it feels.
- [87:14]
Lewis Howes
And it feels good.
- [87:15]
Lucy Hale
Finally.
- [87:16]
Lewis Howes
I never celebrated my success.
- [87:18]
Lucy Hale
Wow.
- [87:18]
Lewis Howes
Like, when I would accomplish my goals after, like, 10 years of going for it, I'd be like, okay, what's next? On, like, we got to go bigger.
- [87:26]
Lucy Hale
I know.
- [87:27]
Lewis Howes
It was never like, let's take a moment. Something I love about my wife. She's all about celebrating the moment. Any little or big, like, success. She's like, we got to go to dinner. We got to have a weekend, celebrate. Let's take a trip. And it's. I have to get used to celebrating.
- [87:41]
Lucy Hale
I'm like you.
- [87:42]
Lewis Howes
But I think that celebration energy is good because it allows you to reflect on how hard you worked, whether it was three months on a project or three years.
- [87:50]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [87:50]
Lewis Howes
It's like, man, look how far you've come. We can celebrate a small win and a big win with equal amount of reflection.
- [87:57]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [87:58]
Lewis Howes
It doesn't need to throw yourself a massive party, but you can go out and have dinner or go on a trip or whatever it might be and just say, man, I did it, or we did it, or, let's talk about all the memories from what we created together. She's really great at creating that. I mean, she's Mexican, and Mexicans celebrate every birthday party. It's like, everything's a celebration.
- [88:19]
Lucy Hale
So I really relate to that, though. But also, like, your mentality is why you're so successful, because you're like, okay, cool, now what? And it's good, it's drive, it's passion, and I really respect that. And I feel like I'm that way too. But remember how I was talking about being really present? I'm trying to really take a moment, whatever it is, each day where I'm like, that was cool. Or, oh, I liked that interaction, or whatever it is. It's so important to be grateful, because the more you're grateful, the more you find things to be grateful for, and then the more you find more things to be grateful for. And so gratitude to me, is the secret sauce of life.
- [88:57]
Lewis Howes
If you could go back 20 years to Lucy, that had this dream, that made it to LA and then booked the gig, and then all these things start happening. If you could go back 20 years and you could sit across from Lucy of 15, what piece of advice would you give her? Knowing all the emotional uncertainty that you were experiencing, experiencing in that time, the lack of emotional safety that you had, the maybe the stresses you had at home, whatever was going through that we don't have to talk about. But what advice would you give yourself 20 years ago, before you started to break into the industry and have the success and fame that you had? What would you say to her?
- [89:41]
Lucy Hale
I'm just tearing up because I, you know, I wouldn't have changed anything. I wouldn't have, because I. I love who I am today, I really do. But I. I would tell her how deserving do I say me or she? I would tell her that she's deserving of good things, good people, healthy love. I'm worthy of everything that's coming my way and just to never lose sight of that. I think that that is what so many people struggle with, is this, like, not feeling worthy. And I don't know why. We all kind of have that little inkling, but we really are. And I wish, without changing anything, just to remind that version of me how powerful my mind is and that at any second I can tap, I could, you know, like we were saying earlier, like, that connection to something bigger than me never went away, and that all I needed to do was just, like, brush off the dust, you know, shine it a little. But that connection's always there. But, yeah, I think that version of me just needed a big hug and needed some support and needed. Yeah, just needed that emotional foundation, I think. But I got through it. Yeah, I got through it. And not only did I get through it, I got through it. I think maybe Even more than my soul intended to. I think my soul's like, okay, okay, you can calm down. But I'm just. I love this path I'm on. I literally wake up and I'm like, I'm obsessed with my life.
- [91:26]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. It's beautiful to be in.
- [91:27]
Lucy Hale
Yes. And it doesn't mean I'm not. I still have things I'm working on. I will always be doing that. I don't know. I'm in a. I'm in a good place and I.
- [91:39]
Lewis Howes
Beautiful.
- [91:40]
Lucy Hale
And it's not just because of me. I've also been very blessed with unbelievable resources and true guardian angels and friends and just pillars of strength and people who have been guiding lights and loved me when I literally felt unlevel and that I do not take for granted at all. Introducing Instagram teen accounts. A new way to keep your teen safer as they grow.
- [92:06]
Lewis Howes
Like making sure they always have their seatbelt on.
- [92:08]
Lucy Hale
All right, buckle up. Good job. New Instagram teen accounts. Automatic protections for who can contact your.
- [92:14]
Lewis Howes
Teen and the content they can see.
- [92:17]
Lucy Hale
Hi, we're all modern. We're here to help you refresh your space for spring. With the best of modern furniture and decor all in one place. Our team of modern obsessed experts hand vets, each designed for quality. Plus, we offer fast and free shipping. That's modern made for real life. Shop now@allmodern.com and what if Lucy, again.
- [92:41]
Lewis Howes
This hypothetical scenario, you're having this conversation with your 15 year old self. What if she looked back at you when you said this to her and she said to you, but how do I feel? Worthy. I hear you saying you are deserving and worthy, but I don't feel it.
- [92:56]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [92:56]
Lewis Howes
How do I believe I'm worthy?
- [92:59]
Lucy Hale
I mean, I don't think we as people. I mean, I don't know how I would explain this to her, but as people, we don't have to earn our worthiness. That is our birthright. That is what we are on this planet. We are. That is unlimited. You know, and I. That's such a tough question because, like, how do you get through to someone who's like, how do you convince yourself? The thing is. But this is why I think things happen exactly how they should. Because I've only been able to understand that I'm worthy through experience, through trial and error, through falling on my face, literally and figuratively, and realizing that I've always just had this voice that was like, no, you deserve more. Try again, try again, try again. And I realize that not everyone has that, but that is such a hard question.
- [93:50]
Lewis Howes
How do you tell someone that, especially your younger self.
- [93:53]
Lucy Hale
How do you tell her?
- [93:54]
Lewis Howes
I don't know, what is she like? I don't believe you. I don't believe you because I don't feel it. Like, how would you get through to yourself 20 years ago to believe you were worthy of all of this?
- [94:06]
Lucy Hale
But I think I always did know. I think there was like, I'm not. That's such a hard. What would you say? That's such a hard question to answer.
- [94:14]
Lewis Howes
That's why I'm asking you the question.
- [94:15]
Lucy Hale
I know, I'm like, wow.
- [94:16]
Lewis Howes
I think it would, you know, I literally just thought of this.
- [94:20]
Lucy Hale
No, it's a great, it's a great.
- [94:22]
Lewis Howes
Question because, well, here's, here's what I would say. I'll answer that in a second. But imagine there's a, you know, 18, 23 year old, 28 year old watching who is like just been driving and maybe they've had some emotional challenges in their life and they are like hooked on the edge of their seat listening to this or watching this because they can truly relate to what you've gone through and they really look up to you and see the career you've had and now they can relate to you and say, oh, but she's actually been through a lot. Yeah, that I can relate to personally. What would you say to that? 18, 23, 28 year old watching or listening who doesn't believe they're worthy. How would you try to get through to them?
- [95:04]
Lucy Hale
I mean, I think it's like we shouldn't fake it through life. Like don't say things you don't mean. Like, like I feel like if I were to tell my younger self be worthy, I'd be like, but I don't. It's a slow burn, you know, you don't have to say like you can't go from feeling depressed or sad or struggling to automatic bliss. And life is amazing. It really is to me. It's like this is a two parter to me. It's like the more you focus on what is going right in your life, you're gonna keep finding more things that are going right and you're gonna keep finding more things to be grateful for as much as you possibly can. Focus on what is going right and the things that are going wrong will dissipate. I literally promise and I understand people are in different circumstances and scenarios, but as much as you can try to see, find the good things, write them down, wake up every day and say some days it might just be, you know, look at that ray of sunshine, or, you know, these sheets feel nice, but some days it'll be, wow, I met the love of my life, or it will grow and grow. And so I think that, like, finding ways to be grateful. I know people used to tell me this all the time, and I wanted to tell them to shut up, but it works. It really, really works. And also, I think a lot of people feel lost, don't know their identity, don't know where they. Where their place is in the world. Feel so misunderstood. A lot of people are living in shame. I relate to all of those things, and I think, however you can, find out what makes you uniquely you. I like, we always forget that. How incredible it is. There's 8 million people on the planet and there's only one of each of us.
- [96:57]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [96:57]
Lucy Hale
I firmly believe we all have a purpose. I firmly believe we all chose the vessel we're in. I firmly believe our. Our soul wants us, Wants great things for all of us. And so I think it's just like living and finding your truest passion and not letting. Choose yourself every day and don't let anything get in the way of that. Always choose you. I don't care what anyone says. Let them call you selfish, put you first. Always get alignment. In alignment with yourself first. Everything else will fall into place.
- [97:27]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. And I would. As I'm hearing you say this, I'm thinking about what would I say to myself.
- [97:32]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, did you come up with a great answer? I feel like you did.
- [97:35]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. From all these. I mean, because I lived in a lot of shame. I lived in a lot of insecurity. And again, my parents got divorced when I was, I don't know, 15 or 16, but they probably should have been divorced when I was because there's, like, chaos. So it was emotionally unsafe at home.
- [97:49]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [97:49]
Lewis Howes
I left home at 13 to go to a private boarding school that I found and begged my parents to send me away for months. They did not want me to leave, so I left at 13 to create a sense of safety, essentially to run away because I didn't feel emotionally safe. I knew my parents loved me, but they didn't love each other. And so there was always dis. Ease within them. And therefore I felt the energy of their stress.
- [98:13]
Lucy Hale
Right.
- [98:14]
Lewis Howes
And that caused a lot of emotional instability inside of me. And so when you have, you know, parents dynamics, sibling dynamics that are whatever, friend dynamics, bullying at school, whatever it might be, it's hard because you're in an environment where you don't feel lovable. You don't feel seen. You feel taken advantage of or neglected or abused or whatever it might be. And I felt like I needed to get out of that environment to create a sense of freshness, newness, safety. But I still have the traumas that I carried with me into a new environment.
- [98:50]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [98:51]
Lewis Howes
But everything you're talking about makes sense to me. And it's probably what I would say to myself is one. If you want to feel worthy, you have to do. You have to live in full integrity every day.
- [99:04]
Lucy Hale
Integrity is everything.
- [99:06]
Lewis Howes
And you have to be willing to disappoint people with your integrity. Meaning you got to be honest with people. And they may not want to be friends with you.
- [99:13]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [99:13]
Lewis Howes
And they may speak bad about you behind your back. They may gossip about you. They may do mean things to you. And so you're going to. You may cause frustration or emotional instability outside of you, but it's never worth doing that inside of you to create peace externally.
- [99:30]
Lucy Hale
There is another quote. Here I go. It says something like, disappoint as many people as possible. Possible as it takes to avoid disappointing yourself. And I was like, that's a heavy hitter. I can't take credit whoever wrote that on Instagram. Yes.
- [99:42]
Lewis Howes
And I was the opposite. I disappointed myself first in order to try to not disappoint everyone around me 101. And it caused so much pain inside of me and resentment and anger and frustration because I felt like other people weren't showing up for me the way I was for them, like you said.
- [99:58]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. Yeah.
- [99:59]
Lewis Howes
And I just think if I could have learned to be alone and be happy with myself.
- [100:04]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [100:05]
Lewis Howes
I could have been fine with a couple friends, not trying to have everyone like me.
- [100:09]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. I also feel like, because I. I'm a person that needs an action sometimes, I'm like, I can't just sit. So. So, you know, like, sit and, like, expect the answers to come. But I feel like what I'd recommend to people is, like, literally having the awareness of wanting something different or wanting more. That is a beautiful seed planted. And ask, pray. If you don't. If it's not prayer, talk to the wall. I don't care. Talk to yourself. Write it down. If you desire to want to find the answers in your life, I swear to you, they'll show up.
- [100:45]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [100:46]
Lucy Hale
And it's all there. The answers are all there. They've always been there. But your awareness might not have been able to find the.
- [100:52]
Lewis Howes
And I think prayer is something you've said two or three times. I Think I would have told myself to stay in prayer even if I'm not getting the answers. Because I think I would lean towards pleasure to try to remove pain from my life. So I would seek pleasures to feel better and try to numb certain pains. And I think sticking with prayer, even just a few minutes a day, even if I don't get the answers I need or I'm looking for or if it takes longer to like find the answers, like stay consistent with prayer, stay in high integrity with myself even if it means disappointing people around me, especially my parents like doing those things. That's scary though. When you're younger you don't want to disappoint your parents. So it's learning how to. It's a challenge, it really is.
- [101:42]
Lucy Hale
And also being patient. Like sometimes we don't know best, sometimes there's a bigger plan for your life.
- [101:46]
Lewis Howes
So that's true.
- [101:48]
Lucy Hale
Keep at it. Consistency is key for sure.
- [101:51]
Lewis Howes
A couple final questions for you, Lisa. This has been powerful.
- [101:53]
Lucy Hale
I love, great, this has been, you know, what happens is when I'm in these conversations, I'll leave and not have any memory of what I've said.
- [102:00]
Lewis Howes
Well, luckily it's recorded so you can watch it back.
- [102:03]
Lucy Hale
It's a good place to be in, but yeah.
- [102:05]
Lewis Howes
A couple final questions. What is a limiting belief? Let me go, let me, let me think about this.
- [102:11]
Lucy Hale
Okay?
- [102:12]
Lewis Howes
If you go 10 years in the future, we already had a conversation with your 15, 16 year old self 20 years back. If you could think 10 years in the future of the woman you're going to become over the next 10 years and all the lessons, the growth, the awareness you're bringing into yourself and into the world, what is the one piece of advice your 10 year old self in the future will give you in this moment that will help you overcome any limiting belief you might have right now?
- [102:44]
Lucy Hale
Trust the timing of your life. That is simply it. Sometimes I try to play God and I'm like, well, I know best and it needs to work out this way. And if it doesn't work out this way, then it's wrong. No, no. I firmly believe when you surrender to the timing of your life, magic unfolds, magic happens. I have seen it. When I've released the reins, when I've said, okay, I'm co captain, I'm still on the ship, but you've got a better plan than me, higher self, God, like take over. And there's such a relief in that. And I've really been trying to embrace that and I really believe the next 10 years of my life is because I'm in alignment. I'm doing all the right things. I know it. I'm doing my best every day trying to. And when I don't, you know, I apologize and I try better next time. But now I think the next phase of my life is really trust the timing of my life. And I'm really gonna try to challenge myself more, do more things that scare me and really be okay. Being more visible. And by that I mean not being afraid of world perception or what people think of me. I feel like that is not what's tying me down. I just feel like there's gonna be so much freedom and just being like, okay, I did this. Let's see what happens.
- [104:00]
Lewis Howes
Does that mean expressing yourself or, like using your voice or doing certain projects that maybe aren't populated or whatever?
- [104:06]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, I think all of it just living, risking. Be a bit. Bit more of a risk taker. But yeah, trusting the timing.
- [104:14]
Lewis Howes
Okay.
- [104:14]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. What would you say. What would you say to your.
- [104:19]
Lewis Howes
10 years in the future? I would say, for whatever reason, for me, it's like, I don't want to regret not going for my dreams. Like, when I'm older, I don't want to regret saying, you could have gone for it, but you're afraid. You played it safe.
- [104:37]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [104:39]
Lewis Howes
Now I don't want to neglect responsibilities in my life as well. So it's like, can I fully go for my dreams and show up for my wife and, you know, my future family and all these different things. But I don't want to be 60 or 70 or 80 and say, Gosh, you just. You're afraid. You're afraid to go for it.
- [104:57]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [104:57]
Lewis Howes
And it doesn't mean I'm going to accomplish every dream, but I don't want to just look back and think, you didn't even try out of fear. So it's similar to what you're thinking, like, be willing to go for it. And I feel like I'm living that I'm doing these things that are scary, but I just don't want to live with regret of not going for it.
- [105:16]
Lucy Hale
Yeah, I'm with you.
- [105:17]
Lewis Howes
Like, accomplishing is a different thing, but not going for it, I can't live with.
- [105:22]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. Aligned with that.
- [105:24]
Lewis Howes
That's my thought.
- [105:25]
Lucy Hale
I don't see that for us, exactly. Well, you're writing books and we're having.
- [105:29]
Lewis Howes
Fun, and everything for me is, you know, it's different. Whereas when I was younger, I wanted to. My dreams were about accomplishing things for me. And now my Dreams are about pursuing the things that I feel called to do that may have accomplishment tied to it, but doing it in service of others. Of others. And the boy in me that has a dream.
- [105:53]
Lucy Hale
Isn't that amazing that what when you do. Because I feel the same way, like when I'm honoring that inner child feeling but knowing that it impacts others in a positive way, like, that's the best. Yes, that's the best feeling.
- [106:07]
Lewis Howes
And letting go of the need to be looked. The accomplishment or the award or the success and being people praising me for that. More of like just being inspired by the journey and if the results come, great.
- [106:20]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [106:20]
Lewis Howes
But it's like making a difference, making an impact and serving people in an empowering way is the ultimate path forward.
- [106:28]
Lucy Hale
Amen.
- [106:28]
Lewis Howes
And however that looks.
- [106:29]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [106:29]
Lewis Howes
What is the thing you think your, you know, 45 year old self will be most proud of that Lucy did over the next 10 years?
- [106:41]
Lucy Hale
Ooh, I think she'll. I mean, I think it might be similar to what I was saying. I think, you know, I'm really setting the groundwork for the next phase of my life. Like, I really feel like, you know, I've not only closed a chapter, like I'm in a whole new book and you know, I loved the first book, I hope it's the best. But like we're on to the second part of it and, and I feel like I'm really, I'm really doing the things I feel like are best for me in the long term. And, and I don't mean like the practical, physical, everyday things. I mean like I'm getting my mind trained, I'm ready, ready, like, and it really does take commitment to be like, oh, I just had a thought that I don't, I don't think is for my best interest. Let's like divert it this way. And that's like mental tennis.
- [107:35]
Lewis Howes
You know, you're like Rocky in Russia. The training montage, like just doing the.
- [107:39]
Lucy Hale
Reps. Because I know that I have to do that because I know what I want to achieve and I know where I want to go and I already see myself there and I feel that. And to be able to already embody that feeling, I know it's going to happen. And so it's easy for me to put in the work, put in the groundwork when I know that I'm gonna be there. Because, you know, Billy Carson could explain this as well, but like everything exists at the same time anyway. So I'm my little me, I'm my present me, and I'm my future me, all at once.
- [108:10]
Lewis Howes
So here's a question for you then.
- [108:12]
Lucy Hale
Okay.
- [108:13]
Lewis Howes
What is the biggest dragon you're gonna need to slay in the future? My mind that your mind is training for now. What is the biggest thing you're gonna need to overcome and conquer in the future that your mind has been preparing you for? That you're going to say, do I take this call to adventure? Do I take on the dragon? Do I go on this journey? Or do I stay comfortable at this new place that I'm in, this new comfort zone?
- [108:39]
Lucy Hale
I love that question. It's very easy for me to be like, no, I like it here. It's really cozy, safe, and I'm good. But no, I have this insatiable desire to keep going. I just have this feeling, you know, I'm obviously going to keep acting, and I. I love what I do, but I have this feeling that in the next decade of my life, something's going to shift and change, like an element of my career. And I know that I need to be really dialed in and ready for it. I've literally not one clue what it is. I couldn't tell you. I believe it has to do with speaking, connecting with people, service. You know, it really is a passion of mine, connecting with. With people. And so I need to be ready for that. So the dragon that must be slayed is being afraid of visibility. I think, like, it's so interesting.
- [109:28]
Lewis Howes
You're a public figure. You've got millions of followers. You're on tv, you're in movies, you're.
- [109:32]
Lucy Hale
But that's a Persona. Visible. But a lot of that's a Persona.
- [109:36]
Lewis Howes
It's not your authentic voice.
- [109:37]
Lucy Hale
Well, I feel like I do show up as myself, but there is not.
- [109:41]
Lewis Howes
Your words.
- [109:41]
Lucy Hale
Right. And I have had this whole thing my entire life of like, look at me, look at me. And then everyone looks at me. And I was like, why are you looking at me? It's kind of. And that. That is just me in a nutshell.
- [109:52]
Lewis Howes
Interesting.
- [109:52]
Lucy Hale
It doesn't make sense to me at all how both of those things could exist at the same time. Like, desperately wanting to be seen, but in a genuine way, but also feeling exposed when I end. And so I'm really sinking. That's why it's, like, so great to be having these conversations. Because we're talking about a lot of experience exposing vulnerable things and not a character. No. And I'm showing up as me and just learning to be okay with it and not second guessing anything I said on my drive. Home today. Just knowing that whatever I said was the right thing that needs to be said. That's beautiful. Yeah. So the dragon would be slaying the dragon of fear of being fully seen. Yes.
- [110:40]
Lewis Howes
And getting, like, backlash for your true authentic voice or something.
- [110:44]
Lucy Hale
Exactly.
- [110:46]
Lewis Howes
This has been powerful. I don't want to take too much more time. I've got two final questions before I ask them. I know you got a lot of projects going on. I think you posted something on Netflix or one of these platforms recently. Yeah. Well, you've got lots of projects happening. Can you share what you're working on, what you're excited about?
- [111:01]
Lucy Hale
Yeah. So I have a movie coming out. Well, we have to finish it first, but it's called White Mars and it's a sci fi thriller.
- [111:08]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, I see that.
- [111:09]
Lucy Hale
Very fun. That will probably come out next year.
- [111:12]
Lewis Howes
Okay.
- [111:13]
Lucy Hale
You're filming here in London. We filmed part of it in Italy last year. And so we have a few pickups to do. Okay. And then the release you're talking about, we didn't even know the release was going out, but it's a project that's in development at Netflix and it. It's a book that I. I first read five years ago, and it's the first project I've been a part of from the very beginning where I was like, I have to make this into something. And, you know, it was a true. It's a true story of believing in something. And good things take time because it's been, you know, five years of assembling the right team and, you know, Netflix is obviously a dream, like, such a dream place for it. Then I'm doing a rom com in Ireland this summer called Princess. And then a few other things that I possibly. It's a little too early to say, but I will say I love where my career's at. And when I started putting myself first, my career only blossomed as well. That's just like a great byproduct of choosing yourself as other things start to flourish too.
- [112:20]
Lewis Howes
Beautiful.
- [112:20]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [112:20]
Lewis Howes
So all these projects, some are coming out soon, some coming out later, but if we follow you, Lucy Hale on Instagram, is that the best place to be up to date?
- [112:29]
Lucy Hale
If you want to see pictures of my dogs, like me spilling my coffee, me talking about astrology. Yes, that is the best place to find it.
- [112:36]
Lewis Howes
Okay, cool. Awesome. This is two questions I ask everyone at the end. This is called the Three Truths. We've already hypothetically gone into the past and into the future. But another hypothetical scenario, imagine you step into this Next book, and then many more books you write in your life. And you get to write all the books you want, literally and metaphysically, I guess, as well.
- [113:00]
Lucy Hale
Exhausting.
- [113:03]
Lewis Howes
But at some point, you can no longer write any more books, and your story ends in this earth many years in the future. So imagine you get to live your life, accomplish all your dreams, learn all the lessons, but it's the last day on earth for you, far in the future. And for whatever reason, on this last day, you have to take all of your work with you. Every movie, every project, every podcast, interview, anything that's ever been said, written or produced by you, gone.
- [113:31]
Lucy Hale
Okay?
- [113:31]
Lewis Howes
But on the last day, you get to leave behind three final truths, three lessons that you know to be true from your experiences that you would leave with the world. And that's all we have to remember you by.
- [113:43]
Lucy Hale
Okay.
- [113:43]
Lewis Howes
What would those three truths be for you?
- [113:46]
Lucy Hale
Wow. That I've learned?
- [113:48]
Lewis Howes
Just your life. What would you want to leave behind? What would you want to leave behind as lessons to the world? Things that you would say, here's what I learned and here's what I share as my lessons.
- [113:58]
Lucy Hale
I feel like one major thing is we are all so connected in ways that we can't even possibly imagine. I'm talking from the trees to the animals, especially humans. And there is a oneness that I've experienced that once that, like, light bulb goes off for you, like, so much of the. I don't know, I feel like when I discovered that, like, it just made me have so much empathy for other people, just realizing, like, we all share a consciousness and, like, your success is my success. Your pain is my pain. You know, for better or worse, we're all connected. And I think that, like, never losing sight of that is really, really important, because I think we. We grow up in a world that wants to separate us. By religion, by politics, by culture, by clothing, by whatever it is. And that dividedness causes, obviously, a lot of pain and chaos, but we are also connected. Okay, okay. That's one. Okay. And the other one. This is hard. This is hard. Two other truths. I would say that. I mean, I already kind of said this, but we are the creator of our own realities. We can take full control. There's no need to, you know, blame anyone else. But we. Our minds are so powerful and just, like, really remembering that innate source energy that we all have, like, it's there, and I get so excited when I see people I know tap into it. And then the third. Oh, my gosh, I'm having to, like, go to the depths of my brain. Repeat the question one more time. Three.
- [115:45]
Lewis Howes
Three lessons you would leave behind.
- [115:46]
Lucy Hale
Three lessons. There are no mistakes in life. There are things we could do differently with the knowledge we have, but there are no mistakes. There are no coincidences. I believe everything has a purpose and a place and a lesson, and everything is always working for your highest good.
- [116:06]
Lewis Howes
That's beautiful.
- [116:07]
Lucy Hale
Yeah.
- [116:08]
Lewis Howes
Lucy, before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for your journey.
- [116:11]
Lucy Hale
Thank you.
- [116:12]
Lewis Howes
Of getting into alignment for yourself, of working on healing your nervous system. And I know it's a constant journey, but it sounds like it was two decades of a lot of emotional uncertainty. With all the success and the fame and the money and the attention you felt, it sounds like inside of you, you were still emotionally out of alignment.
- [116:34]
Lucy Hale
Very much so.
- [116:34]
Lewis Howes
And so I want to acknowledge you for waking up for yourself and getting into alignment and feeling that sense of peace in your nervous system and healing. Because I only know that this next book you write in the world is going to serve people in such an empowering way. So I'm so excited to see what the journey is for you and how you show up in full service to yourself and to others and starting to bring your voice to the world.
- [117:01]
Lucy Hale
Thank you.
- [117:02]
Lewis Howes
I think you putting your voice out more and sharing more of this is going to only help more of your audience or anyone else that doesn't know about you and care more about these things. So I acknowledge you for the journey that you've overcome, the journey you're on and the journey you're gonna be on. And I'm excited to put this out there as well for the world to hear.
- [117:18]
Lucy Hale
Thank you so much.
- [117:19]
Lewis Howes
It means a lot.
- [117:19]
Lucy Hale
So it's important to take those moments. And really, I needed that. Thank you. I really appreciate that.
- [117:25]
Lewis Howes
Of course. Final question. Lucy, what's your definition of greatness?
- [117:31]
Lucy Hale
My definition of greatness is. Okay, how do I word this? I feel like my brain. I see, like, blocks of thought, but articulating it is so hard.
- [117:42]
Lewis Howes
It's okay.
- [117:42]
Lucy Hale
My definition of greatness is recognizing that your greatness is going to look different every day. Some days your 100% is going to be 50%, a different day. And some. And just always knowing that that's okay. Like, and always knowing that. I mean, it just goes back to that alignment thing. Like, being in alignment is greatness.
- [118:06]
Lewis Howes
Yes.
- [118:06]
Lucy Hale
You know, and. And you make up your own definition of what greatness is. That's what's great about being human. We give meaning to things. So, like, my meaning of greatness is going to differ from yours. It's going to differ from everyone else's. And to me, that is greatness. Like how cool that we can have our own definition of things and perception of things. But I think, yeah, for me, it's, it's recognizing whatever greatness is to me is gonna look different on any given day. And today. It's good conversation, it's being open, meeting with integrity. My favorite word. It's not being afraid of the scary, you know, and just showing up as me. Like showing up as yourself is the greatest gift you can give the world.
- [118:46]
Lewis Howes
That's it. Lucy, thanks for being here. Appreciate you. Oh my God.
- [118:50]
Lucy Hale
Dream come true.
- [118:51]
Lewis Howes
Powerful.
- [118:51]
Lucy Hale
Seriously, dream come true.
- [118:53]
Lewis Howes
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the descript description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.
- [120:07]
Lucy Hale
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