← The School of Greatness
The School of Greatness
The Jonas Brothers Reveal THE TRUTH Behind Their Breakup & Comeback
01:17:34
The Jonas Brothers reveal 20 years of hard-earned wisdom about surviving fame, financial loss, and family business while building sustainable creative careers. This raw conversation covers everything from Kevin losing 90% of his wealth to their six-year breakup and the mindset shifts that made their reunion stronger than ever.
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- [00:00]
Host
Today I sit down with the Jonas Brothers and what a conversation this was. I don't think I've seen an interview with all three brothers opening up, getting vulnerable and actually being real with one another the way they did in this episode. They truly open up about the behind the scenes pressures, tough family conversations, and what it took to come back stronger than ever. I also asked them about fame, money and success and each one of them had a different answer on how they navigate navigate it and the lessons they've learned from applying it from an early age to 20 years later since they started their band to where they are now. Talk about the family conflict that nearly tore the Jonas Brothers apart and how they were able to come back from it stronger than ever. We talk about creativity, how to be creative, how to get in the flow at different seasons of life. Even when your music isn't on the top of the charts and it's not commercially received the way you want it to be received by the audiences and fans, we talk about the power of authenticity and vulnerability and building trust with your audience and truly what it takes to rebuild after hitting rock bottom as a global brand. It was a powerful conversation that I got to just do with the Jonas Brothers and each one of them truly shares some amazing insights that I think will help you in your life today. If you're enjoying this episode, please share it with a couple of friends. It's so cool to see how their relationship has evolved and where each one of them are at mentally, emotionally and physically in their life and how they're able to still create art on their terms to make money and make a difference and an impact in the world. I hope you enjoy this and let's go ahead and dive in right now. Introducing the new Dell AI PC. Powered by the Intel Core Ultra processor.
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- [02:31]
Shankar Vedantam
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- [03:05]
Reese's Voice
Reese's peanut butter cups are the greatest, but let me play devil's advocate here. Let's see. So no, that's a good thing. That's definitely not a problem.
- [03:15]
Interviewer
Reese's.
- [03:16]
Reese's Voice
You did it. You stumped this charming devil.
- [03:21]
Interviewer
It's the first time we've done this. We've got three people on at once, really. We got the Jonas Brothers in house. Good to see you guys. Thank you for having us. I gotta start with this. So much has happened in 20 years. And I'm curious, what is the thing that you've learned the most about fame, success and money that you could share with the world? Like the lessons you've learned about fame, success and money either from 20 years ago, like it coming into your life when you were just like riding around in the van with your dad d' malls trying to perform for 20 people to then, oh, now it's a ton of it. Fame everywhere, success, money. To 20 years later, how it's evolved.
- [04:01]
Nick Jonas
Oh, man, for me, I think it's.
- [04:03]
Joe Jonas
It's a.
- [04:03]
Nick Jonas
It's.
- [04:04]
Joe Jonas
It's been interesting to have this relationship with. With fame for as long now as we. We have because fame often doesn't equal success. It doesn't equal money.
- [04:16]
Interviewer
That's true.
- [04:18]
Joe Jonas
In fact, at times it can. It can create more hurdles and, you know, preclude you from getting to those goals of success and money. And so I've had to. To redefine what the benchmarks of success look like at different stages and also what realistic benchmarks of success and goal posts are financially. And the biggest learning in that has been that anytime I'm in my creative flow and doing something that's making me happy, the results are better. And it sounds very simple and it also, I understand, sounds very privileged. And I will balance that with saying writing a song is incredibly difficult. And if you're not feeling positive in your spirit, if your life's not balanced, then you're not going to write a good song in the same way that an athlete is not going to play a good game if things are out of balance in their life. And, you know, I try to make something great while I'm in a great place that then creates a financial opportunity and result that is net positive. But sometimes you do something that you love and you feel great about and no one responds to it.
- [05:37]
Interviewer
How do you feel about that? When people don't respond to something that you love.
- [05:41]
Joe Jonas
Well, I think that, you know, it's, it's very much as we get to know each other, it's very me to say no one responds to it. I mean.
- [05:47]
Interviewer
Right, right, right.
- [05:48]
Joe Jonas
You know, it doesn't hit number one. And so as the, the game has changed so much in this 20 year period. You know, 10 years ago when I launched my solo music, it was very different. The process would be you go into, you know, radio station, do an interview and watch the song slowly grow at radio and then hopefully people start, you know, buying it or streaming it. Now it's just a completely different landscape and the way the algorithms are set up on streaming services and everything really make the listener more in control. But what it does is it then makes it harder for things to break through. And when you reference music Coming out 10 years ago, there's probably a thousand songs that came out on any given Friday. Now there's thousands of songs. And so I've had to start saying what really matters most to me. And the three things are feeling like my life is balanced, staying in my art, staying creative and having fun. And then creating a sustainable touring business that doesn't depend on the success of a song on the charts or it's more about super serving our fans who are absolutely incredible and have supported us for this 20 year period. And then if something starts to connect on a, on a larger scale, it's just an added bonus. But I've, I've, you know, we have built the foundation to sustain without the need for an anomaly. And I think in any business that is the, the key is, you know, building something that, that can, where the floor is not going to fall out and, and the ceiling is attainable.
- [07:31]
Interviewer
And because you don't need one hit, you don't need a big hit song to make money. Right now. You have multiple layers of your businesses from touring to merge to whatever else it might be.
- [07:40]
Joe Jonas
And then, you know, there is that, that rare thing that just finds its, its way and breaks through and it continues, you know, to give us motivation creatively as we, we get further and further into our life and career to just be honest in our music and the stories that we're telling. And you know, that's why I think this album, this album title really like resonated with us, was because it's about just getting back in touch with our roots and making music that feels like we're back in our living room in Wyckoff, New Jersey with our dad playing music so sorry, that was a long winded answer.
- [08:13]
Interviewer
I love it, man. Kevin, what about you? What's the biggest lesson you've learned from money, success and fame over the last 20 years?
- [08:20]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah, I've seen it both ways, right? I've seen the beginning of the success to financial success, not knowing what money really was and understanding it to not having. To losing almost all of it. Seeing bad, bad business. Deal. Yeah, no, I had a.
- [08:33]
Interviewer
You almost lost all your money?
- [08:35]
Kevin Jonas
Like. Yeah, most of it, like, down to the one, like, 10% left, you know, really?
- [08:40]
Interviewer
When was this?
- [08:41]
Kevin Jonas
About nine years ago. Investing in. In a bunch of property and doing other things. And I was building at the time, and sadly, it just wasn't the right partnership, if you know what I'm saying. Can't really get too much into it.
- [08:53]
Interviewer
I get it.
- [08:54]
Kevin Jonas
But the sad part of it is learn. I've learned a lot of lesson in that and thankfully for life in general, like, we had a second shot and bite at the apple with the band coming back together, and it actually was, like, kind of fortuitous in a way. Like, I learned this lesson. Never wanted to learn it, but I did.
- [09:13]
Interviewer
Painful lesson, man.
- [09:14]
Kevin Jonas
But then at the same time, reevaluated how to approach life and from that perspective and looking to the future and at the same time, was able to really feel honored that we could have a second shot at it. And then I think from the business side of things, I look at our business as. We are like a startup, like any kind of thing, right? Like starting artists and other things. They have an album that they work on, their first albums there, you know, most of the time, 20s, you know, 18, whatever it is. They've worked on that album for 18 years before that album's out, right? That's their first album is they're 18 years in the making. Then you have pretty much the pressure to put out another album a year later, two years later. So the. The window of time, the life you spend between projects can sometimes be important. I think we've learned that. I think it's helpful for us to do that. Live a little bit of life to talk about it, you know. But then I think we look at our. The I look at a band like ourselves as like a startup. You know, you've got. You have. You start in your garage making music, you build your product, you go out, you get an investor.
- [10:19]
Joe Jonas
My dad was our lead investor.
- [10:20]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah, our dad was our lead investor. He, you know, supports you. You go on. You start. You go on the road show, all of a sudden you know, you get a. You a second investment, and that's the label, and then you have distribution. And now there's so many more. Like, what people forget about this business is that it is a business, and that what we do is like, oh, cool, we have to release this project. But the amount of stuff that comes with it, the amount of stuff that, like, happens on the backside of it, to even make that a reality is challenging sometimes. And putting up a tour and having to make, you know, choices to. To. To where to go and what kind of venues to play, and these are all really complicated conversations and decisions that sometimes need to be made. So it's nice to be able to have a teammates with these guys in our. On our management team that has been with us for so long. And I think, you know, we're a good unit now. And sometimes it takes time to make decisions, and I think that's okay. I think for me, that's the hardship that I face. Like, I just want to make a decision and move and continue. Sometimes it's nice to, like Nick said and Joe said, actually to take. Take it easy. Like, that's what I've learned, I think, in all of this, is to take some time is okay to make a decision. You don't need to make it in the room. And Nick's really good at that. He's like, I'll let you know.
- [11:27]
Interviewer
And he's like, give me some time.
- [11:28]
Kevin Jonas
But, like, he'll say that. It's like, I don't know yet, and it's okay to not know. And I think, like, for me, that's always like, an insane thing.
- [11:34]
Interviewer
Stresses you out. You want to be like, let's figure out.
- [11:36]
Kevin Jonas
Stress me out. Because I just want to. I want an action plan. I just want to start moving forward. That's my little complications.
- [11:42]
Interviewer
But it's good, though, because you need some of that. Otherwise, if it's just like, yeah, we'll think about it for months. You know, you need someone giving the pressure of, like, all right, here's a deadline. How long you can think about it, right? It's like, you think about it and then get back to me in a few weeks.
- [11:54]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah, totally.
- [11:55]
Interviewer
Otherwise, you know, artists can be like, I'll think about it forever, right?
- [11:58]
Nick Jonas
It's like, yeah.
- [12:00]
Joe Jonas
I think oftentimes, too, artists get a bad rap for, you know, for being less structured. But I have worked with people that I really admire and respect who you would think, based on their work would be really efficient killers in the room, making decisions and leading often Those are the people who just go, I don't know, and I might not know today, and give me two days, three days, I'll let you know. And they come back with something that is as good as the time that they were awarded to think on it. And even in the moment you're like, this isn't efficient. This isn't the logical thing. It's like it does end up. The results are better.
- [12:47]
Interviewer
It's the artistic. My older brother, he's 11 years older than me, he's the number one jazz violinist in the world. So he's played and traveled the world with all the top jazz artists, musicians, and he's just. It's another. The jazz world is another level of like artistic expression, of improvisation. And it's just his mind is incredible. But he's probably the extreme version of you where it's like, you know, hard to make a decision and everything needs. And he's got some of you. It's like he's so hard on himself if it's not the perfect thing at every moment. So it's like the indecision can kill him sometimes. And then needing to look a certain way and it's like what has to be my perfect artistic expression. And it's like, I'm never going to do this type of art because it's, you know, it's crushes my soul if it's not this way. And so I'm like, yeah, but you.
- [13:32]
Advertiser
Can make a lot of money over here too.
- [13:33]
Interviewer
And he's like, but I can't put something out there unless it's true to the art form of jazz. And I'm like, all right, man. It's what makes him great. But also like kind of his challenge that hurts him from like own worst enemy. Yeah. Making more money or, you know, being more commercial or whatever it might be. So yeah, what about you? But for biggest lesson you've learned from fame, success and money, what has it taught you?
- [13:56]
Nick Jonas
I think probably fame and success. I think success was used to be like plaques on the wall and sold out stadiums and arenas. And now it's just like a quiet morning and quiet time with my kids or like a destination, like that's success, like just being happy. Fame, I think is like, it's something that naturally you look at and it's like, oh, I like, I. When I meet young artists, I always ask them like, do you have any advice? And the first question I ask, I ask them a question back. I'm like, why do you want to do this? And if they say they want to be famous. I'm like, I usually look at their mom or dad, I'm like, maybe they should stick and stay in music class for a little longer, see if they like it. Because I think if you're getting into it for fame, it's just not. That's just not what it's about. I think like, it's. That is such a double edged sword and we've been, I guess, poked many times by the other side of the sword in a negative way where it's just not fun. And it comes with a lot of pressures and especially as a young person, like we started. And there are amazing things that it also comes with naturally being able to help other people through the power of music. We've met some incredible people just recently, people that have been affected by cancer. And we've spent so much incredible time with people who are sick kids or are going through some crazy things. And you play a song that you think, well, this is like, oh, this is. We're gonna play this one on set list. And you look out and you're like, oh, that's that person's like that got them through something crazy. And you hear these real stories and.
- [15:36]
Interviewer
You'Ve sung it thousands of times.
- [15:38]
Nick Jonas
Yes, of course. And it brings up like ours. We have a song, Little bird, we wrote it.
- [15:42]
Kevin Jonas
We.
- [15:43]
Nick Jonas
We have this song that is essentially a dedication to our, our daughters. And now it's kind of taken a life of its own.
- [15:50]
Interviewer
It's.
- [15:50]
Nick Jonas
It's people usually holding signs. Can you sing this about my father or parent who's no longer with us or my child is no longer with us and you're just like, oh. And so the fact that we can help, I think genuinely a reason to do what I love is the fact that I can help others in some way, whether it makes them feel something or distract them at a concert like that part of fame, great. If I can help people, that's what it's about. Now, money. I think I am probably, probably least money smart here, but I think I also love to take as long as I'm able to take care of my friends and family. And I'm good. I've smartened up because I had to having kids. But I think surround myself with great people that know what they're talking about and that can make sure that there's longevity there, but also have fun in the process. I mean, I think it's like I don't want to be just behind a desk and I'm not, I'm grateful for that. But I should say like, in the sense of like just working all the time. I want to be able to enjoy why I'm doing this and go live life and find the kind of simplicities. That's what it's about. So I think like, if I can create amazing things for my kids and also keeping them and somewhat like humble creatively, that's what I hope for sure.
- [17:15]
Interviewer
Sure. If you could go back before your first gig as a group 20 or whatever years ago it was, and you can play your life 20 years in advance to where you are now. But all the ups and downs, the success, the fame, the money, the loss, the, you know, heartbreaks, the. All the different stuff. What's one thing you'd say to your younger self right before you started about where you are now? One piece of advice. Would you start.
- [17:44]
Kevin Jonas
I have one funny one and then I'll say the actual one. But remember your guitar. On the first night, the first night we went on stage, I literally left it in the dressing room and had to run off stage and miss one of the two songs we played. So don't forget your guitar. But realistically, it's. Enjoy the moments because learn to celebrate even the little, the little moments. Because we kept going so hard so fast that we would kind of never look back and we never celebrated and I think we missed opportunity to grow as people because of it.
- [18:18]
Interviewer
Okay. Beautiful.
- [18:21]
Nick Jonas
I would say fame and criticism are two very different types of, of obsession and they have different tastes. And learn to not overeat.
- [18:38]
Interviewer
Interesting. Okay, Nick.
- [18:42]
Joe Jonas
Anytime throughout this 20, 25 years, I guess I've been doing this, I've second guessed my first instinct and gone a different cut, a different direction. I've regretted it. I feel like I would encourage myself to trust my first instinct and stand by it. If it doesn't accomplish what you thought it would accomplish or wanted it to stand by it. Because more often the result is something you can be really proud of than if you've spent time cutting a different direction. So yeah, don't second guess yourself.
- [19:27]
Interviewer
Beautiful.
- [19:29]
Host
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- [20:24]
Host
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- [20:36]
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- [23:01]
Interviewer
I had Rick Rubin on a couple years ago. I don't know if you guys know Rick Rubin, the producer, very much. You guys worked with him or you guys know him or just know the audience comes last.
- [23:09]
Nick Jonas
It's my favorite Rick Rubin quote.
- [23:10]
Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [23:11]
Joe Jonas
We had not worked with him. I would love to.
- [23:13]
Interviewer
Yeah, he. I asked him about his creative process on the show and I asked him about if he worries about what the audience thinks when he's making his music and he says no. He says, I make the music for me. Essentially, I'm paraphrasing him and I try not to concern myself on how well it does commercially. Now maybe he's older and got all the money in the world and he doesn't have to worry about that.
- [23:33]
Kevin Jonas
He's had all the success, right?
- [23:34]
Reese's Voice
Yeah.
- [23:35]
Interviewer
Who knows? But it sounds like he's kind of always been that way. Who knows? I don't know. That's. You know, I would like to think that way. When I make an interview or book or whatever it is, I'd like to think, I don't care what people think. I'm making this for me, essentially is what he's saying. How do you guys navigate that? You kind of mentioned it a little bit about really getting in a flow state of doing the thing you love, making music or performing from a place of love. Whether it's a sold out audience or, you know, half sold out. I mean, not that you guys never sell out anymore, but it's like, how can you show up when it's like, oh, we didn't sell it the way we wanted to, or people didn't react or respond the way we thought they would. How do you guys make art without worrying about the audience but also making sure you make money to survive?
- [24:18]
Joe Jonas
Yeah, the show I just did is an example of this. You know, it's eight shows a week and the theater holds about a thousand people. So that's 8,000 tickets a week, or roughly around 8,000, which is a lot of tickets. And that over, you know, 14 week period, it's easy to look out and go, oh, this is only 1000 seats. This should be pretty easy. But you know, it ends up being a lot of tickets to sell. And so, yeah, there was a few shows where the houses were a Little lighter. And on top of what Joe mentioned earlier about staying motivated amidst some criticism and what I truly believe to be just a theme in this last Broadway season of a feeling that there wasn't. That there were some critical voices that were louder perhaps, than the audiences were. The audiences would come and see these shows. It wasn't just our show.
- [25:14]
Interviewer
And they loved it.
- [25:15]
Joe Jonas
Loved it. But a critic's voice just rose to the top and became the narrative. But what motivated me was, regardless of, you know, my first instinct, which was to look out and go, oh, man, there's. There's a few more empty seats tonight than there was last night. Or. Or, wow, there's. This is a bigger audience was to. To look at the reaction and focus on the experience that's happening in real time. You know, I was speaking to someone who. Who basically was saying, you're creating all these scenarios in your head. It's as if, you know, I. I put a box on the table and said, what's in there? And you created. There was a snake in the box. So you open it up, it could be something else, but, like, you've created this scenario. It's not. It's not that. And that's what I was doing during that show. I'm starting to listen to the negative more than I'm really taking a second, regardless of how many empty seats there are, to enjoy what was happening in the room. And so as far as, like, staying motivated and creative and flow state, all this stuff, it's not easy. And it's not just. It's not just our art form. You know, this could apply to someone at their. Their job, at an insurance company, whatever your creative thing is, your process is, you know, staying positive and staying motivated isn't always easy, but there are ways to tap into it. And I think that the. The thing that's helped me the most has been to. To talk to friends and family and open up whatever inner sort of life stuff I'm going through to get through it. What's happening, like, outside of your work that directly affects what's happening in the work?
- [27:04]
Interviewer
So how do you navigate that then? Whether it's any. You can share this about. How do you block out the noise of the outer world or the block out the noise of the inner world, of the outer world so that you can stay present and focused on creating your craft. Because you guys have so many. So much busy lives, like, yeah, kids, this, that, touring, business, fans, social media. It's like there's distractions everywhere. Maybe it's not Distraction. But there's things that need your time and attention all day long. How do you block it out, the outer world and the inner world to just say, hey, we're just going to create art today. We're going to focus on this and not be on the phone or check with this person or your kid, whatever it might be. How do we navigate that?
- [27:42]
Nick Jonas
There was a season in my life where it was probably the most challenging season of my life. And I couldn't escape comments and negativity and headlines. And so that was like the forefront of my day. Or getting a call like, hey, there's this like, from a PR person. You're like, gosh, like, like. And you're just wanting to also gotta.
- [28:07]
Interviewer
Go show up, put on a smile and be positive and.
- [28:11]
Nick Jonas
Yeah, and go on stage. And so I guess to answer your question, there was a director I worked with, J.D. dillard, and above his monitor, he said, what do you want them to feel? And I wrote that on my backstage mirror every night. And you realize that this is their show, the audience's show, and they deserve the best. And it's okay to be vulnerable. I think you fight that for so long to be like, I gotta show these people that it doesn't matter. It's totally okay to be like, yeah, this is tough and this is a challenge, but I'm here and I think people respect it more. Authenticity wins, like always. And it's not always easy. I think, like, there was times where I'd just break down to these guys and. Or be like I. And they would have real conversations, like, do you want to cancel tonight or do you want to, like, you know, not sing this song or that song? I'm like, nope, I'll do it all. Because I feel like that's what they deserve. And I know that I'm not. We're not hyper unique individuals going through certain situations in our life. Like, everyone's going through something. Whether if it, you know, feels like it's a big thing in your life or it feels like a little thing in your life, it's. You're going through something. And it was so beautiful to be. I was at a Con Coldplay concert in Greece last year and it must have been epic. It was like, honestly one of the best shows I've seen live.
- [29:36]
Interviewer
It's like a spiritual experience. It really is.
- [29:38]
Nick Jonas
And Chris Martin says on stage, he said, how unique is this moment when all of that. We were about to go, I think, on the road again. So it was like, I needed this. He was like, how amazing is this moment in the. In the world right now that thousands of people can be in one place and disagree on politics, spirituality, what you would have for dinner, and yet you.
- [30:02]
Joe Jonas
Can sit here and sing the same.
- [30:02]
Nick Jonas
Song and be like, arm in arm and, like, happy. And I'm like, that. There's not many things like that anymore. Yeah, you can't go to even film, tv, music. Like, there's. So it's very divisive. And obviously what's happening in our world, it's. There's a lot of heartbreaking things. But the fact that we could go to a place where we're putting all that aside and we all have core memories of a song that, like, could be that person's breakup song. It could be that person's, like, wedding song, you know, and we could be in the same room or same arena. I'm like, how lucky are we? And I think that's what they deserve. So I'm like, out. I could do that for them. And if I have to cry through this song, so be it. That's what.
- [30:39]
Joe Jonas
And just to. To add to that, some of the folks from the show I was just doing came to see an experience that we did last week in New York. Basically, we. We were rehearsing music rehearsal all week for the tour, and we just decided to open it up to do, like, a live rehearsal experience for our fans. And it was a few folks who wouldn't, I think, categorize themselves as fans. Maybe they know a couple of the songs. But I said, just come and just see what the environment is like, because it is kind of magical. Like, Jonas fans are so loving, and it's such a joyous experience that I'm not naive. Like, I know that there are people that I've invited to shows who don't know a single song or would even, like, say it just never hit them in culture or whatever. But when they come, they experience kind of similar to what he's talking about, that euphoric feeling. And it's why I love that I get to do this as my. My job creating in the studio is. Is. Is like my safe place. It's my favorite thing in the world. But getting on stage and feeling that feeling is like, pinch me. This is.
- [31:58]
Kevin Jonas
Wow.
- [31:58]
Joe Jonas
This is real life. It's amazing.
- [31:59]
Interviewer
Does it ever get old for you guys just being on St. People scream your songs back to you.
- [32:04]
Kevin Jonas
It's such an experience every single time. Like, I remember the feeling of starting the last. Out last tour, the five albums, one night tour, and we're at Yankee Stadium and opening that up and then like, you know, the start of the show happens and it just is no music like the music, but like we hit the stage and it's silent, not silent, but there's no sound from us and it's just the audience and the lights are on them and it's just, just a roar. In that moment, we get to see all their faces and it's just unlike anything else.
- [32:37]
Joe Jonas
I think as we've gotten older and we've got families and, you know, we're not 22 like it does, the travel aspect of this occupation at times can be a little tiring, Tiring. But we're so, we're so fortunate. And once we get to that venue and the music begins and we hear the audience, it's even more significant for us because there was a chapter of this 20 year journey where things were not going well. And it was post the first peak. And gradually over a 3, 4 year period, as we moved further and further away from authenticity in our personal lives and relationship with each other, our music started to reflect that, really. And then people's desire to come and see a show or, you know, a radio station's desire to play a song of ours sort of started to go down, really. I think hitting a version of rock bottom for all of us made this second, maybe third bite of the apple and one that is far more sustainable now even, Even more special.
- [33:51]
Interviewer
How does that feel when you, I guess, reach a peak and then there's a dip and maybe it dips for a while or, I mean, and your guys's dip is still big compared to most, you know, artists and musicians, but you've been to a mountaintop and you've hit this success of number ones and sold out arenas and then, oh, radio stations don't care as much or it's not as high on the charts or we're making less money or fans are not as connected? How does that make you feel emotionally or mentally when that dip happens?
- [34:18]
Nick Jonas
I think the dip feels like you're jumping off a cliff. Like it feels so much more in that moment. Like you just see when we were there, like in that place. And to your point, Absolutely. Like, we realize now that dip is not as great as we thought it.
- [34:38]
Interviewer
Was, but it feels like you can't control it.
- [34:41]
Nick Jonas
It's also like, is this it? Are we done? Like, okay, do we need.
- [34:45]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah.
- [34:45]
Nick Jonas
And I think, like, I think what it really did for us, stepping away from it, was realizing like, okay, well, do you love this. That much that you're going to be willing to just not start over, but start where you're at and figure out what that looks like. And I think there was a season when, like, I think, like, every young person I can speak to this, and.
- [35:12]
Joe Jonas
I'm sure you, every.
- [35:14]
Nick Jonas
Anyone that loved music, you go through a scene where you're, like, obsessed with. With certain artists, and then you're like, that's not cool. That's.
- [35:19]
Joe Jonas
That's.
- [35:19]
Nick Jonas
I don't like that anymore. And you go and figure out what you like, and then you go, actually, no, I. What made what.
- [35:25]
Kevin Jonas
What.
- [35:25]
Nick Jonas
You may have laughed at me for what I liked when I was younger. I'm proud of that. And that actually was a defining artist or band or boy band, whatever it is to you in your life. And to see now, like, all those people run back, it was, like, great.
- [35:40]
Interviewer
We both.
- [35:41]
Nick Jonas
The door's always been open. And I think what, like, we learned about ourselves back then was that it was. We needed to step away from the band to be able to, like, focus on family and focus on figuring out what we were. I think we were starting to kind of recycle material creatively, and it started to feel like we were coasting. I think we got comfortable, too, like, musically and creatively. Well, we're just like.
- [36:05]
Joe Jonas
It's that thing, too, where you start to, like, create alternate realities, to not address the elephant in the room.
- [36:13]
Interviewer
What was the elephant?
- [36:14]
Joe Jonas
And the elephant was that it wasn't that we were taking control artistically and just doing it ourselves. It's that we weren't confident that people that we wanted to work with would work with us. And when we finally just said that out loud that, you know, we were basically stunting our own growth because we were afraid of rejection. It was. It was a big reality check and an important one.
- [36:39]
Interviewer
Rejection from who, though?
- [36:40]
Joe Jonas
Was it producers and. And songwriters?
- [36:44]
Kevin Jonas
Who.
- [36:44]
Joe Jonas
Who we were again, the alternate reality was, yeah, we don't want to work with them. It's like, no, but you were afraid.
- [36:49]
Interviewer
They didn't want to work with you.
- [36:50]
Nick Jonas
Exactly.
- [36:50]
Kevin Jonas
Correct.
- [36:51]
Interviewer
Interesting.
- [36:51]
Joe Jonas
And then we burst that bubble.
- [36:52]
Interviewer
And what was that fear, though? Was it afraid that, like, oh, they didn't take you as a serious artist or, like, a necklace misconcept?
- [36:59]
Kevin Jonas
I think, personally, like, that was my. My thought would be, like, misconceptions of just, like, some of the past choices of, like, even working with Disney, like, that's all this is. And it's like, no, we wrote all this music before we ever teamed up with Disney. And thank God we had them. And they helped surge and gave us a platform for our audience to hear the music we created and the music that Nick wrote in the basement of our little false house in New Jersey when we were in between labels, when we were dropped. Like, that is the album that we call Jonas Brothers. Because that's the album, you know, that's what. That was his. That was his 18 years, or. How old are you? 15 at the point. Yeah, 15 years of that first album. You know what I mean? Like, we had an album before that, but that really wasn't us. It was this one. Right. That's why it's called Jonas Brothers. And we found our sound. We found who we are, and we found our voice. I think that success has changed for me. And I think seeing having my family be able to attend shows, which I never thought was gonna happen when we had that dip.
- [37:56]
Interviewer
Your kids?
- [37:56]
Kevin Jonas
My children. Yeah. Cause we broke up, and they're just about to have our first. Like, I never thought they'd experience the Jonas movie.
- [38:01]
Interviewer
What is that like? Having your kids show up and, like.
- [38:03]
Kevin Jonas
It'S the greatest experience. You know, having my wife, Danielle, and my support there and that. That. That feeling is unmatched. But then having my two girls come to shows and bring their friends and be, like, proud.
- [38:18]
Nick Jonas
Wow.
- [38:18]
Kevin Jonas
And, like, be excited and, like, be singing. We did this thing on Broadway, and they're on, like, the. On the balcony, and, like, they're like, jam and jumping around singing a song. Like, it's like. It's unimaginably like nothing else matters. Like, cool. Did it great because you were a.
- [38:33]
Interviewer
Teenager when you started, and now it's like, they're almost. Well, your dog.
- [38:36]
Kevin Jonas
Almost a teenager.
- [38:37]
Nick Jonas
Yeah.
- [38:39]
Interviewer
It's like, the emotion behind that must be surreal.
- [38:42]
Kevin Jonas
And we're doing. Still doing it, you know, like, now. Now. Now the requests come in, though. So now it's like MetLife is like, Dad, I need a box for all my friends to come. I'm like, okay.
- [38:50]
Interviewer
Amazing.
- [38:51]
Kevin Jonas
Becoming very expensive.
- [38:52]
Interviewer
Yeah. Wow, this is fascinating.
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- [41:26]
Interviewer
Something else that I think you mentioned, Joe, earlier in the interview is about how. And you kind of just said this how you wrote the songs or you were. You kind of led. You're a natural born leader. I think that's what you said about Nick. What was that like as you guys, as the older brothers?
- [41:42]
Kevin Jonas
I guess I think we needed it.
- [41:43]
Interviewer
Allowing him to lead or allowing him.
- [41:46]
Kevin Jonas
To kind of like, I think we needed it. We obviously all worked together, but we needed it because at that point we're a little older and we're like, oh, we just want to hang out with these two girls that we just met Right, right. And then Nick's writing this incredible music and we come back and hear it and be like, oh, okay, that's great too.
- [42:02]
Nick Jonas
I think there's pros and cons to it. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think like, would like, it took us a while to also like have mutual respect for like what we bring to the table, you know.
- [42:13]
Kevin Jonas
That'S three of us.
- [42:14]
Nick Jonas
And I think like, because he's like.
- [42:16]
Interviewer
The younger brother too.
- [42:16]
Kevin Jonas
Younger brother.
- [42:17]
Nick Jonas
So I think I was envious probably with his natural talent too. I was just like, it's a bit unfair. And I think also that's at the time. And I think also, like, naturally people like, he, he was an old soul, so he's like kicking it with like 50 year old dudes, write music. And I'm like, I'm like. And then also at the time, I think because we were like, to his point being like, we're older and we just want to like go on a date or something or I want to go just have a night off. Nick's like, why do you not want to be in the studio right now?
- [42:49]
Kevin Jonas
And so it's like.
- [42:49]
Interviewer
And how old were you at this time?
- [42:51]
Nick Jonas
Like 15 or 16.
- [42:52]
Interviewer
Crazy.
- [42:53]
Nick Jonas
And by the way, just like, I'm.
- [42:54]
Kevin Jonas
20, so you know what I mean?
- [42:56]
Nick Jonas
So to that point, I think like.
- [42:58]
Joe Jonas
I was motivated by different things of that.
- [43:00]
Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Eventually the girls didn't kick in yet.
- [43:03]
Kevin Jonas
Right?
- [43:03]
Nick Jonas
It's like, exactly.
- [43:04]
Interviewer
You just wait.
- [43:05]
Nick Jonas
Kids, you know, it's like one of those things where over years and years later, like, and it really happened, I think during the breakup where like, we all had to go figure out creatively, like, what we can do on our own.
- [43:21]
Interviewer
How long was that breakup again?
- [43:22]
Nick Jonas
About six years or so. And we call it a breakup, but like, they had no intent to get back together. That was not like, we're done. I think it was just like there was too much under the rug to like unplugged. So to roll up and say, okay, well, we're gonna address all these things that were problematic. And also things were good. Like the. So everyone's. Without being long winded. I think it was a little bit challenging at times. And I feel like we had to trust each other a bit more with being like, actually you are good in this band, you are talented. And I, all of us. And for different reasons, like, I shouldn't maybe just be the person in the. Like, for me, I was like, like, like the audience thinks you're a frontman that doesn't. We were never there. Was Never a choice for that. So it's like, we can all share the spotlight, and we could all share the studio, and we could all share songwriting. We could all share money.
- [44:13]
Kevin Jonas
I'm just saying, like, it really was.
- [44:15]
Nick Jonas
Like, we could share this experience together and all fronts, and we had to figure that out. Took a while.
- [44:20]
Interviewer
How long did it take you? I mean, I watched the documentary, came out a few years ago, but for those who didn't watch it, what was the core issue that you needed to resolve as a unit, as a family, to be able to come back together and let go of either the envy or the jealousy or the. Whatever was swept under the rug that wasn't talked about? What was the core issue that you guys needed to mend, and how did you mend it?
- [44:44]
Nick Jonas
I think a lot of people assumed that we had our together and we would talk about certain things. And I think there's a aspect where I think this goes for a lot of people in the industry. It's like we're all just trying to figure it out as we go. And especially when you're that young, you say something and it's in print. Back then, we had printed things.
- [45:03]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [45:04]
Nick Jonas
And people would just think that's like. You go by that word, but it's like, well, we're also like, 17, 16 years old. We're figuring out who we are. Yeah. And so I think, like, what we needed to. There's a lot of things we probably needed to have real tough conversations about. But, like, primarily as a. As a core of, like, a band, I think it was the dynamics of how we need to open the door a bit more for other creatives to be a part of this project.
- [45:29]
Interviewer
Oh, not just you guys.
- [45:31]
Nick Jonas
Not just us.
- [45:31]
Interviewer
And allow others to have impact.
- [45:33]
Kevin Jonas
I watched that happen a lot. Like, for sure. When we came back afterwards and seeing all the work that Joe had done independently with his, you know, solo music with DNCE and all the writers and the songwriters that he worked with, Nick, in the same capacity, and then getting together in our first writing camp with the three of us coming back into the music scene as. As. As a unit, but having multiple rooms, going with the people that they all loved working with and bouncing from room to room and doing it unlike I've ever done, it was so cool to see because there was no. There was no. Like, we have to be in this room. We're all writing together, and this is the idea. And that's. It's like, I'm going to start this idea. I'm going to Kevin, you jump in here with them, see how. What happens. And, like, it became so much more. Like, it was free. And because of that, I think it became authentic. And I think that deciding to understand that there are three very independent and very different people, even though we're brothers, is important. And also forgiveness for things that, like, we were just trying to learn who we were, right?
- [46:37]
Interviewer
Rr yeah, we're still trying to figure it out, I guess. I'm still figuring it out. It sounds like you guys were trying to do all the work yourselves early on, or it was like having the pride of, like, I want to write the songs or whoever it is. And you were resistant to allowing outside support, or you were afraid of them rejecting you, I guess. And now you're about collaboration. Let's just find the best people that can help us make great art is what I'm hearing you say. Totally. Yeah. And how is that. How does that make you feel now? It's more collaborative, not just within you guys, but with others you respect as well.
- [47:11]
Joe Jonas
I think that we had a real chip on our shoulder in our. Our youth and early days of the band where we were really, you know, trying to prove. Trying to prove ourselves. And.
- [47:21]
Nick Jonas
And we'd see a lot of young acts come up around our same age and see these guys be, like, just handed. And we got so mad. They'd be like. We were like, you didn't pay any dues. Like, that was kind of our attitude because we were a touring band for years before we even had somebody pay attention to us.
- [47:38]
Interviewer
So sorry to interrupt, because they were just, like, given a song by a great artist and they sang it.
- [47:43]
Nick Jonas
It was just like, yeah. We felt like, wait, we're over here playing our instruments and loading in our gear, and this young hotshot kid comes out of nowhere and steals our audience? That's how we thought, which was obviously like. Like nobody has the control the music industry. Like, we. Yeah, you know, it's like not one solo artist that doesn't go like, we live 20, 25. It's this. Today's.
- [48:05]
Kevin Jonas
It's their.
- [48:05]
Nick Jonas
It's their year. Like, I kind of always get annoyed when I read, like, you can blurt my. Bleep my nail, but, like, rolling, I don't care, but Rolling Stones, like, top songs of the year. Our favorite songs of the year. I'm always, like, so subjective because that. This is, like, everybody can share this.
- [48:24]
Kevin Jonas
So I think we also made a lot of decisions in fear. Fear that everything was going to fall apart, everything was going to disappear. That one Wrong move. Nothing was going to be good anymore. So make with. When you have that as your first hurdle to get over before you make all the decisions, you're going to fall down pretty hard.
- [48:41]
Interviewer
Yeah. Interesting. Do you guys feel like you can make art and you can be successful and other people can be successful at the same time and hit the charts and tour out and sell out? Like, do you believe in having abundance for all artists or what's your thoughts on abundance?
- [48:55]
Joe Jonas
I think that there are certain artists who look at this music industry as something that can be dominated and you can win it.
- [49:09]
Interviewer
Interesting.
- [49:10]
Joe Jonas
And I think that that is completely insane. And it's mean. It causes people to do things behind the scenes that are unfair to other artists who are trying to find their way. And I think that the business is just kind of set up to allow it. And I know how difficult firsthand, how difficult it is to get anything made, to see an anomaly happen. And you know, how many people are.
- [49:47]
Interviewer
Often overlooked and who are really talented.
- [49:50]
Joe Jonas
Who are really talented and don't get that shot. And it's. It's because there are people trying to win the game. And it's like, it's just not fair. It's not kind. And I love seeing people succeed and I love hearing music that can inspire me or touch someone else's life. The magic of that is. Is real. So I think abundance gets a big cosign from me. I think everyone should win. And to Joe's point about a sort of top song list.
- [50:25]
Nick Jonas
I'm sorry, I think it was best. Not favorite.
- [50:27]
Interviewer
Best.
- [50:28]
Nick Jonas
Yeah, yeah, something like that. Favorite's different, but best is.
- [50:30]
Joe Jonas
But exactly. But if you want to, like, if you want to talk about best songs, look at all the music Lin Manuel did for Moana. Like, as a father, my biggest learning has been I'm tapping back into, you know, the brilliance of Disney's cinematic universe.
- [50:47]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [50:48]
Joe Jonas
And some of those songs in those movies are absolutely incredible.
- [50:52]
Interviewer
Incredible.
- [50:52]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah.
- [50:52]
Joe Jonas
And. And what? That's not going to be on that list because it's not some indie act from wherever. Like, give me a break. There's some brilliant musical stuff happening. And our dad was always, you know, very wise in that. He. He would play us a, you know, a bunch of different styles of music, music genres and different eras and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, the odd thing would. Would get played that one of us would be like, oh, I don't like this. He's like, well, they did something right. So listen.
- [51:23]
Interviewer
Yeah, it's interesting.
- [51:24]
Joe Jonas
And it gave Us a far more dynamic sort of view of. Especially in pop music, you know, what one could consider isn't like great or excellent. A lot of people in the world.
- [51:38]
Interviewer
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:39]
Kevin Jonas
There's nothing better than hearing a song and go. Being like, damn, I wish I wrote that song right. Like, because it's just like, it's inspiring to hear great. And hearing like, just.
- [51:47]
Joe Jonas
What's that one song for you?
- [51:50]
Kevin Jonas
It was first for me. It was Yellow by Coldplay. My gosh, like, when I heard that song for the first time ever, I was just like, that's a good one.
- [51:57]
Joe Jonas
But what about like in the last five years?
- [51:59]
Nick Jonas
Ten years.
- [52:00]
Kevin Jonas
Last five years. Ten years.
- [52:05]
Nick Jonas
Come back to me, Joe, come. I never wrote a song called no, no, no.
- [52:09]
Interviewer
He's saying, come back.
- [52:10]
Kevin Jonas
This is the one thing I'm not good at is naming songs. I don't know why I've never been good at it.
- [52:13]
Joe Jonas
It's. It's interesting. You. You can't do it.
- [52:16]
Kevin Jonas
I can't do it. And they do it. They put me on the spot all the time. That's not why I do it.
- [52:20]
Nick Jonas
No, no.
- [52:21]
Joe Jonas
Mine is.
- [52:22]
Interviewer
What's yours?
- [52:23]
Joe Jonas
Attention by Charlie Puth. If we had come out with that song, that would have been a number one record in front. Such a great song.
- [52:29]
Kevin Jonas
That's a great song.
- [52:30]
Joe Jonas
Yeah. I'm like so jealous.
- [52:31]
Interviewer
I'm like, when did he write that song?
- [52:33]
Joe Jonas
About five years, six years ago or ten years ago.
- [52:34]
Interviewer
Ten years ago. God, that was a hit hit. Massive. It was incredible. So catchy.
- [52:39]
Joe Jonas
And he, he. So at that time I was okay, now I'm back, I was doing some solo music and. And every now and again a song would. Would get to me that he had written. Did that get to potentially cut and that one didn't.
- [52:53]
Interviewer
Oh, you're like, dang it.
- [52:54]
Joe Jonas
But yeah, Charlie, he kept that one.
- [52:56]
Interviewer
Keeping this one from me.
- [53:00]
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- [55:12]
Interviewer
You guys are all dads and my wife's pregnant, so I'm gonna have my first kid here in the next few months.
- [55:19]
Joe Jonas
Amazing.
- [55:19]
Kevin Jonas
Amazing.
- [55:20]
Interviewer
And I want to get you guys advice on what it's like being a dad and any advice you might have for me becoming a new dad.
- [55:28]
Nick Jonas
Well, the first thing I did, what you're doing is asking people, I hope you respect us, but people that I really respected, fathers, parents, parent figures in my life that I really looked up to and would go to them and say, all right, what's the best piece of advice you can give me? Like your quick like table pitch. And I just collected it all, kept a few that I really loved and some that I'm like, I'll be good. But I think it's from. For me, I've really being present and also like, it's so humbling being a father where you'll be like, all right, let's put the devices away. And you're just, they're like, well, you're on your phone.
- [56:06]
Interviewer
You're right.
- [56:06]
Nick Jonas
Putting that those into practice, kind of trying to be a present person and present dad.
- [56:13]
Interviewer
What about you guys?
- [56:14]
Joe Jonas
Yeah, I think that that is the best advice is the phone really can take so many precious moments away. And because these jumps in development happen so quickly when they're that small, you really can end up missing Some of the most special moments of your kid's life. And so I've tried to do my best to put the phone in another room on charge or something and go and just spend some time and be present. And it's just a magical thing once you're really able to connect and tap in. So that's the advice, and I think you're going to handle it with excellence.
- [56:55]
Interviewer
Appreciate it. Appreciate it.
- [56:56]
Kevin Jonas
I actually heard this yesterday from a friend. They said, you take 10,000 hours to be great at what you do. And they said, try to put in 10,000 hours with your children before the age of 10.
- [57:06]
Interviewer
Interesting.
- [57:07]
Kevin Jonas
And I was like, whoa, thinking about it. And it's true. My daughter's 11, my oldest, and by the time they're already at that age, they've got their own friend groups, they're starting to live their own life. Like it's not outside of your home, but like they're. They're definitely their own people in a sense. And you start losing time. I already feel it. And so 10,000 hours before 10 is a great goal.
- [57:30]
Interviewer
Wow. And you guys all have girls, right?
- [57:32]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah.
- [57:33]
Interviewer
Yeah. So what's the biggest lesson, or how have you all evolved as men from before having girls to after having girls now?
- [57:43]
Nick Jonas
Well, yeah, I mean, there's a lot.
- [57:44]
Joe Jonas
Of things that we just didn't know because we grew up in a household of all boys. Our parents always joke and say they tried four times for a girl and got four boys. And, you know, I think having an amazing teammate in my wife and, you know, just the woman that she is, has helped me and my daughter. We've all benefited from that. And, you know, it's amazing to be able to walk kind of side by side with someone as brilliant as her. And it makes being a dad even more special, and a girl dad at that. And mine's still so young that, you know, there's lessons down the road as she gets older. I'm sure Kevin's experiencing that I will experience. But right now I'm just kind of loving all of her interests. And it's that inherent thing in her that just loves purple and pink and princesses. And it's kind of incredible.
- [58:45]
Interviewer
What's evolved inside of you from becoming a girl, Daddy?
- [58:49]
Joe Jonas
Well, our initial journey with parenthood was really kind of frightening. We had about a two and a half, three month period in the NICU with our daughter. The beginning of her life was really a test, not only for her, but for us. In these moments where life throws you a curve ball like that. How you react says everything about, I think, who your parents are and how they raised you and the foundation that you have. And luckily our parents raised us to take that moment to take a breath and cry if you need to cry or do whatever you need to do, but then to stand firm in your convictions and make a game plan. And so we quickly sprung into action and while it could be very easy to let the tornado of events happening cause a breakdown, we stayed calm and I leaned on family and friends to, to get through that and basically have my first test as a father be one of, one of the hardest perhaps, I hope that we'll ever have to go through. And yeah, I think it was an encouraging thing that when truly tested with what was going to end up being a really tough couple months, I was able to sort of find it within myself to stay positive and encouraged and get through it.
- [60:10]
Interviewer
That's beautiful, man. Joe, what about you, man? What's evolved within you by becoming a girl?
- [60:15]
Nick Jonas
Dad, everything. It's the greatest joy and journey navigating. I have two beautiful girls and before having kids, I think, you know, we have a really strong, incredible mom who raised four boys, which is like as a parent now, I'm like, how did you do this? Yeah, obviously two amazing parents, but a really strong presence of a mom in, in our household which I think really helped us kind of understand how to treat people and with respect. And so my, my little ones have like some incredible women to look up to, including their mom. So I have a great co parenting relationship which is really important to me. And I think what's changed or developed in me the most. I know a lot of unicorn names that I never thought I would know.
- [61:14]
Interviewer
Give me a couple.
- [61:16]
Nick Jonas
I think there's Polly, I think Rachel, some they made up. I love the sensitivity and the gentleness of young girls have, but also the strength that they're like, you're building them up to be these incredible, confident superheroes. And it's so amazing as a parent to be able to just even go through a bookstore and like things that I, you know, you wanted to read or things that now in this amazing world in this generation where we can be like grabbing books about Pride month, things that I really love that my kids get to have. There's so many options. It's really lovely. And I think also in myself, I think probably I've realized it's just day to day, it's really quite humbling and eye opening to learn so much about myself within learning about them.
- [62:19]
Interviewer
I want to ask you know, you said something before, before we started rolling, that you said you wanted to make this honest, this conversation honestly, like, this would make it powerful. So when I ask you, Kevin, because you're. You're the oldest and you have the most wisdom of the three, I'm assuming, because you're the oldest, what is the.
- [62:33]
Nick Jonas
Thing we're getting honest now?
- [62:34]
Interviewer
You know exactly. What is the thing that both Joe and Nick do really well as leaders in their life in general, that you really respect and admire? And what's the thing being the oldest and the wisest that you've observed of both of them that you think they can both improve on?
- [62:52]
Kevin Jonas
Oh, God. Okay.
- [62:54]
Interviewer
Yeah. Don't tell them how to raise their kids.
- [62:56]
Kevin Jonas
That's like no fly zone for any of us.
- [62:58]
Nick Jonas
It's like telling somebody how to drive.
- [62:59]
Interviewer
Yeah, exactly. But more of like, what do you see that they do really well in life? And how could they?
- [63:03]
Kevin Jonas
I thought we were still on parenting, so I got a lot of nerves there. What they do in real life, I think, balancing their schedules in the sense of their family and their time. Right. Like, we all have our individual lives outside of what we do together, and trying to find that balance between priorities. Saying yes to everything, saying no when you have to, saying maybe, you know, it's like trying to figure out how to make sure that the work life balance is truly there. They do an incredible job at not always perfect. None of us are, but I think they are incredibly good at making sure they are home when they need to be home and as much time as they can be and still prioritize the growth of their business, the growth of them as individuals. Still, daily challenges, like Nick deciding to do this Broadway show that he did for the last, you know, 14 weeks. 14, 15. That is a gauntlet. Right. It's eight shows a week. You don't have to do that. We could have got enough money.
- [63:58]
Interviewer
You don't need to do that.
- [63:59]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah, it's more about just like, the craft and bettering yourself and choosing to do something that's challenging. And I think they both do that. Joe releasing a very honest album in the last six months, you know, he worked on it for a while, but, like, being very, very vulnerable in the. The songwriting, the performances, the way he presented it, like, the amount of time spent online to promote it. Joe, you know, finding new ways to do that through, you know, you know, TikTok social media, how they can do better.
- [64:28]
Interviewer
What's one thing each one of them could improve on in their life that you think and you See, as the.
- [64:32]
Kevin Jonas
Wiser older brother, I do not have this answer. I. I really don't.
- [64:36]
Joe Jonas
That can upset us.
- [64:37]
Interviewer
Yeah. What's the.
- [64:38]
Kevin Jonas
No, I. Like, I don't know. Since we said honesty. Yeah, no, I'm with you. I just really don't really know if I'm being completely fair with you. But the answer is for Joe. Letting others choose a restaurant at times. Joe does a very good job of curating.
- [64:57]
Joe Jonas
Good answer.
- [64:58]
Kevin Jonas
Joe does a very good job of curating experience. He takes a lot of pride in where we go, where we eat, what kind of coffee we drink. And sometimes he's good at it. And he's very good at it. Sometimes it'd be nice to just do something else sometimes.
- [65:12]
Interviewer
So what's the deeper meaning underneath that?
- [65:14]
Joe Jonas
Correct.
- [65:16]
Kevin Jonas
Having a choice in the conversation, Allowing.
- [65:19]
Interviewer
Others to have a choice in the.
- [65:20]
Kevin Jonas
Conversation without having offense be given.
- [65:22]
Interviewer
Oh, so not like taking control of everything.
- [65:25]
Kevin Jonas
It's not. Just because we have a suggestion does not mean your suggestion is not okay.
- [65:29]
Interviewer
And what about, how's that land for you? Does that resonate at all?
- [65:34]
Nick Jonas
I'm aware of this. No stranger to this, and I think I've gotten better at it. I used to go to. We, like, show up in a city to visit Nick, and I'd be like, oh, I'm going to show you around. He's like, I've been here for.
- [65:48]
Joe Jonas
I've actually been here.
- [65:50]
Nick Jonas
And I have also visited this place when we were younger. At the same age. Yeah, I've gotten better at it. We did go to a restaurant. Nick. Nick decided on this.
- [65:59]
Joe Jonas
It actually meant a lot to me. And there was no. There was no, like, pushback. He recognized that I haven't been in my home city for like, six months. And I was like, I'm dying to just go, and I'm going to go there regardless. It's sort of the.
- [66:10]
Interviewer
You're the commoner now.
- [66:12]
Joe Jonas
And he allowed us to go there.
- [66:14]
Interviewer
That's great. And what about for Nick? What's something that you really admire and respect? And then one thing that you see he could improve on.
- [66:21]
Kevin Jonas
I think I mentioned the challenging himself continuously. I think that that is something that I find really impressive. Still pushing the boundaries sometimes when you don't really have to, but, like, still choosing to improve on. For me, it's just my personal experience when he's going through a frustrating time, voicing that, vocalizing that frustration instead of retracting.
- [66:43]
Interviewer
So what is that you mean? He kind of holds it in the frustration.
- [66:46]
Kevin Jonas
Personally, I think he internalizes and so then he. So I get nervous that I'm going to overstep if he's trying to process. And I want to help because that's just my personality, but I also sometimes don't know how interesting.
- [66:59]
Interviewer
Okay, and what about. What about for you, with both of them? One thing you admire about your older brother and think that he could improve on. And one thing for sure, Nick as.
- [67:08]
Nick Jonas
Well, I think Kevin is.
- [67:10]
Interviewer
And maybe you guys already talk about this stuff all the time, but I'm just.
- [67:13]
Joe Jonas
We don't actually talk about it enough.
- [67:15]
Kevin Jonas
Really?
- [67:16]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [67:17]
Joe Jonas
There's not. It's like, the time that we have to. To just hang outside of work. It's, like, better spent, I think, enjoying what we're doing and not, like, just having tough conversations. But this is great.
- [67:28]
Interviewer
I love.
- [67:28]
Nick Jonas
Cool.
- [67:29]
Joe Jonas
This is, like, my favorite kind of promo.
- [67:31]
Interviewer
Awesome.
- [67:33]
Nick Jonas
I think Kevin is. Kevin is thoughtful. He's very. He's. He's a incredible father and partner, and it's amazing to watch him, like, navigate. Like, I think we used to tease him on his, like, quick red eyes after a show to get back to his family until we had our families of our own.
- [67:53]
Joe Jonas
And we're like, red eye.
- [67:55]
Nick Jonas
We're like, oh, we get it. Like, you. That course you want to be as much as possible be with your. Your family and be present with them. I think what he can improve on.
- [68:08]
Joe Jonas
I would say probably.
- [68:12]
Nick Jonas
Just relaxing and chilling out a little bit more, Being able to just, like, pump the brakes and be a little less hard on himself.
- [68:21]
Interviewer
How so Is he just. You mean he's just always driven for more, or he's always frustrated with that he's not creating or.
- [68:27]
Nick Jonas
I think it's probably my assumption, or knowing you so well is probably making sure that, like, pleasing others. And then he puts the pressure on perfectionism and making sure everything's like, nothing can go wrong. And then if something goes wrong, it's like the castle's falling. And I think, like, being easier on yourself. I'll take that.
- [68:50]
Interviewer
Well, there's a. There's a book called the Birth Order, which is about kind of the order of, like, our, you know, our siblings being birthed. And, like, the firstborn is supposed to be the most perfectionist, have the most responsibility on them. So maybe that's through you being, you know, the oldest of. Of wanting to be perfect at everything.
- [69:08]
Kevin Jonas
Yeah, I think there's definitely some. I'm not trying to be perfect. I just feel like there's definitely an attempt to manage, and it's not necessarily good all the Time.
- [69:16]
Interviewer
Right. Right. Okay. So how did that land for you?
- [69:19]
Kevin Jonas
Good.
- [69:20]
Interviewer
Okay.
- [69:20]
Kevin Jonas
I totally get it. And yeah, I do need to chill the out.
- [69:24]
Interviewer
What about this guy?
- [69:26]
Nick Jonas
He's a. A natural born leader and within our band as well. And he is just coming off of, like, doing one of the most challenging things, I think, as a friend, but a bandmate, I mean, going and doing a Broadway show in general is, like, very challenging. And with as like his like two thirds of this and also one third of this, and also speaking for us and also watching him kind of navigate this mountain that he just went after, it's a beloved. For those who don't know, it's a beloved theater show. And it's already going to have a lot of eyeballs and critics and I guess, voices a part of a show like this. And it was, like, unwarranted negativity when it was announced. And a lot of. Lot of, lot of, like, there was.
- [70:27]
Interviewer
A lot of negativity.
- [70:28]
Nick Jonas
A lot of it was just tough. It was about the casting to the show itself. And we went to opening night. It was brilliant, and it was, like, beautiful. I went to open the night and the opening preview, and I was like, you're crushing it. And this is like. He sings the entire show.
- [70:40]
Interviewer
Wow.
- [70:41]
Nick Jonas
Him and Andrea and Warren, they're both brilliant or were brilliant. And, you know, it's just an uphill battle. And then award season, like, Tony award season, it's like, it's. You're constantly fighting this kind of thing. That's the theater world. It's. It's a. It's a whole league of its own. And I think a lot of the time it's, like, very insulated. And I, you know, witnessed him, like, have to. Even on, like, you read a tough. And we've gone through it, but it's not never. It's never easy. You read like, a tough review or tough, like, tweet, and you got to go, like, put on a good face and go do the show for the people that have bought the tickets. And so I think, like, that was really impressive how he was finding the why of, like, why do this show or why this isn't. That's not fun part of this business. And him navigating that and still going and crushing it and never missing a show.
- [71:38]
Interviewer
Wow. Eight shows a week.
- [71:40]
Nick Jonas
Yeah, eight shows a week. And also then, like, spending time with his daughter and wife and being present and being there and showing up and waking up early, hitting the gym, eating clean, not drinking as much like that is just a challenge. In itself, it's very athletic, and I was really impressed. And I could see how it made a great change on his personality. Now, what he could work on, I would say it goes hand in hand with the first one, which is probably when these opportunities arise, it's always like an obvious yes. But I think probably, maybe thinking about, okay, like, what do I really need? Because we go so much. Like, we just move and we're just naturally born. Like, I don't want to say workaholics.
- [72:30]
Kevin Jonas
But we love what we do.
- [72:31]
Nick Jonas
And so time off is, like, somewhat abnormal to us.
- [72:35]
Interviewer
It feels weird when you guys aren't doing a project, huh?
- [72:38]
Nick Jonas
Right.
- [72:39]
Joe Jonas
Because we love it.
- [72:40]
Nick Jonas
And so I think, think. I think that opportunity that comes, I think I would encourage him to say, you know what? Maybe I don't know yet, but maybe I do need a break.
- [72:51]
Interviewer
Interesting.
- [72:52]
Nick Jonas
Yeah.
- [72:53]
Interviewer
You never really take a break, it seems like, huh.
- [72:57]
Joe Jonas
Once a year. Once a year we go on like, a little vacation.
- [73:00]
Interviewer
Like what, a week or two? Or like, like.
- [73:02]
Joe Jonas
Yeah, a week to 10 days.
- [73:03]
Interviewer
And that's it.
- [73:05]
Joe Jonas
It's kind of it.
- [73:05]
Interviewer
I mean, you're just on non stop.
- [73:07]
Joe Jonas
Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a product of loving what we do.
- [73:12]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [73:12]
Joe Jonas
Of course, you know, being incredibly motivated by the fact that I see the Runway of opportunity has thankfully been extended for, you know, let's call it 15 to 20 years. I'm 32. I think it's realistic that that's possible, but that Runway exists, and I can't ignore that. That none of us can. And it's about building something that I can be proud of when I'm, you know, 20 years down the line, hopefully sitting on the beach, enjoying the time that I. I'm sacrificing now.
- [73:50]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [73:51]
Joe Jonas
But I think that's a good perspective and good outlook. And thank you for what you said about the show.
- [73:57]
Interviewer
That's great.
- [73:57]
Joe Jonas
That meant a lot.
- [73:58]
Interviewer
That's great. And what about for these two guys? We'll save the youngest of the group for last, you know?
- [74:02]
Joe Jonas
Yeah. I think Kevin is. Is very wise financially, and he. As a part of our business equation because, you know, we're. We're brothers, we're family, obviously, we're bandmates, we're creative partners, but we also run a business, and we're kind of co CEOs in that sense. So we. We really have to kind of lean on each other for different things in different areas where. Where we excel. And. And he certainly does when it comes to the financial aspect of the business. And Kind of operating, you know, the business part of it, which is wonderful and takes pressure off of us to be in the weeds on that.
- [74:41]
Interviewer
You're kind of the creative director of the financial aspect and the vision of the.
- [74:45]
Kevin Jonas
I just think just managing the day to day on it. Like there's constant things, logistics, it's a lot. It's a very large ship that moves very fast sometimes, but also very slow at others. And you know, it can take time.
- [75:00]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [75:00]
Joe Jonas
And then I think the thing that he can improve upon is that I think he, he creates hurdles for, for himself in his desire to, to say what we've all kind of said, which is to please, you know, when it comes to what he said about, about me and, and when I sort of go and hermit, you know, when I'm going through something, I think sometimes he takes that personally and it's actually just about me processing or someone else going through their journey and it doesn't need to be fixed. It's not your fault. It's just. It just doesn't need to be fixed in that moment. Joe has a carefree ease and ability to, I think, kind of see the good in everything and everyone. Even when situations that are thrown his way are unfair, where he's characterized in a way that is unfair or you know, we all live this public life and you have to sort of take the good with the bad and know that who you are with the people that love you and surround you is who you are and not necessarily always what the world sees or thinks. But he has this ability to see the good. And it's reflected too in his music, his attitude on stage and the way he treats people. And I really admire it and, and am grateful for it because I don't have that as easily really. I, I have a tendency to, to be sort of a little bit more cynical at times or, or skeptical. Skeptical. And I can see the times in which it, it directly reflects my ability to perform my best or, you know, that's not just on stage but in the studio or if I'm in my head about something and he's got this great ability to kind of pull out of it, something he could work on. I mean, I think that the very thing that makes you great can also be the thing that makes it difficult at times. So when there's like an important conversation, business wise or creatively, and he's more carefree and has an ease to him, like it's like, let's lock in focus.
- [77:11]
Interviewer
He's like, ah, whatever, you know.
- [77:14]
Joe Jonas
But again, it's like, like the, the brilliance of what makes us all dynamic and excellent teammates is that we have these like things that make us great. It also is, is, you know, it's a double edged sword of it.
- [77:28]
Interviewer
So I've got a few final questions for each one of you, but you've got the new album coming out. Greetings from your Hometown. It's out August 8th. And you're kicking off the tour of MetLife Stadium, which is cool because it's kind of like the dream stadium you guys saw growing up near your hometown where you're like, maybe one day in the future we could go play here. And now you're about to go sell this thing out and kick off this tour. What are you guys most excited about? The album and the tour. For people to know about this tour.
- [77:55]
Joe Jonas
For us is a celebration of this, this 20 year journey. Our last tour was, was basically five albums in one night. It was a really ambitious show where we basically played everything from our five albums in, in the show. This is different because we're going to reimagine some of the songs not just from our music catalog but from Joe's solo stuff and dnce and from my solo stuff and my side project and, and so it covers a lot of ground. And then there's a, there's a real kind of story aspect to it as well. And it's gonna kind of end with us effectively creating sort of a version of what it was like to be in our living room with our dad playing music and wow. You know, and how we do that visually will be, will be really fun to, to pull off. But then at the core it's just about what those songs were. So our first song we ever wrote together, Please Be Mine when youn Look Me in the Eyes, which was really our first kind of hit that we, we wrote with our dad back in 2004. And so it's, it's going to be emotional and a celebration. We've got Marshmello, who we've done two tracks with. He's going to be a big part of the show and then All American Rejects are support for the tour and they're killing it right now. I don't know if you've seen any of their pop ups. They've been doing it like these house parties. But it's going to be a really, really fun, fun night. And for anyone that, that is a fan, we can't wait to see you, obviously. But for those that wouldn't, as I mentioned before, like just come and experience it. And, and I guarantee you, you will be uplifted, you'll feel some joy.
- [79:32]
Interviewer
Are you guys coming to la? Yeah, yeah, I gotta come. I gotta bring my lady and come out. That'd be amazing. So, hypothetically, you all get to live as long as you want to live in this world. You live 100, however old you are, and it's the last day on earth. So put yourself in that timeframe many years away and you've accomplished all of your dreams, everything, and you've lived a life personally, professionally, that you want to live. You've made all the art, you've had all the downtime, all the different stuff. It's all happen for you. But for whatever reason, in a hypothetical scenario, all of your content, your music, anything you write or post online, it's erased or it's gone. And we don't have access to your content or your songs anymore. But on this last day, you get to leave behind three lessons and you get to leave them behind to your daughters. You get to share it with them and they get to share it with the world. What would be the three things that you would leave behind, the lessons you would share to your daughter about the things you've learned in life? I'll let you start then. You and you sure.
- [80:37]
Nick Jonas
Being nicer than you need to be.
- [80:41]
Joe Jonas
Like, it's so much.
- [80:44]
Nick Jonas
Being nice is cool. And also go to compassion before assumption. Constance Wu speaks about this. I encourage everybody to watch. It's really. There's a video of her on a late night show.
- [81:04]
Joe Jonas
She speaks about this.
- [81:05]
Nick Jonas
And the third is probably. I thought this was fascinating, but I don't know. It's on a shot. I might have been yours, honestly, but learning that Disney characters are taught to hug, are taught to hug a child until the child lets go. And I think for your sister and for your family and friends, hug until they're ready to let go.
- [81:44]
Interviewer
Man, that's beautiful. That gave me that chill. That's cool, man. What about you, Kev?
- [81:49]
Kevin Jonas
I think number one is work everything out with your sister. Don't forget that she's gonna always be your number one. You know me, your mom will be gone, but you'll have her and work it out. Two, explore the world, see it, get after it. Like go wake up early, walk the city. Like, you know, like, I want them to feel and know more than just their hometown. And three, it's okay not to be good at everything. It's. It's just about the try. It's just about working on that. We work on that constantly with our youngest, she took a long time to find what she liked. And it's like, it's okay not to be okay with, like, be good at it and just. Just work at it. Like, do your best.
- [82:57]
Interviewer
Beautiful. Beautiful.
- [83:00]
Joe Jonas
You'll never regret being kind. Even when it's, you know, even when that seems impossible, you'll never regret it. Make sure the door is always open and the table gets bigger. You know, everyone is always welcome in our home, and they have a place to stay, they have a place to eat. The door's always open. And last thing I would. I would say to my daughter would be, your mother's a saint. She's never done a single thing wrong in her entire life.
- [83:34]
Nick Jonas
She's the best.
- [83:35]
Interviewer
That's beautiful. Final question for each one of you Before I ask it to you. I want to acknowledge you, Nick, Joe, and Kevin for your authenticity, your honesty, for your vulnerability, for your love and the joy that you bring to the world every single day individually and your families. You know, we have a lot of mutual connections and friends, and I only hear great things about you guys. Thank you. So I appreciate each one of you and how you show up in the world artistically, personally. You know, no one's perfect. We're all trying to figure stuff out, and we've all got room to grow. But you guys bring a lot of joy to the world, individually and as a group, and I think that's really inspiring. So I want to acknowledge you guys for that, and I hope. And I hope to see you continue to change many lives for many years to come, and I'm just grateful for you guys. My final question is, what is your definition of greatness? And we'll start with you.
- [84:23]
Joe Jonas
You, definition of greatness would be. It would be seeing. Seeing that it is possible to achieve great things and remain a good person. That is greatness. It is hard for a lot of people to. To balance it and. And they think they have to sacrifice one or the other. You don't. We got to watch a hero do it with such ease. Our father, in my mind, the definition of greatness.
- [85:09]
Interviewer
Beautiful.
- [85:09]
Nick Jonas
Joe, do you have the ability to do what you love and to be kind along the way? Definitely agree. Our father is such a great example of a human being navigating life through his unreal journey. And I think if the people that I really look up to are, like, are really good at what they do, but also are really kind and really take, like, I want to be like them. That's greatness. I was like, I want to be like that person or I want to like learn from them.
- [85:50]
Interviewer
That's cool. Kev.
- [85:52]
Kevin Jonas
I think having a healthy relationship with my family, my children, my wife, my brothers, my parents, extended family, truly like I think that will always make me feel like I've achieved the most.
- [86:12]
Interviewer
The new album is out. The tour people go watch you on tour. Jonas Brothers. Thank you guys so much.
- [86:17]
Nick Jonas
Thank you sir.
- [86:17]
Kevin Jonas
Thank you.
- [86:18]
Nick Jonas
Appreciate it.
- [86:18]
Joe Jonas
It was awesome.
- [86:19]
Interviewer
Amazing.
- [86:19]
Nick Jonas
Loved it.
- [86:20]
Interviewer
Amazing.
- [86:21]
Host
I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel.
- [86:42]
Advertiser
Exclusively on Apple Podcasts.
- [86:44]
Host
Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how.
- [86:56]
Interviewer
We can support and serve you moving forward.
- [86:58]
Host
And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that.
- [87:01]
Advertiser
You are loved, you are worthy, and you matter.
- [87:05]
Host
And now it's time to go out there and do something great.
- [87:16]
Shankar Vedantam
Are you on the right track? What do you want to be remembered for? Is this really all there is? Asking big questions about your life can feel overwhelming, but the Hidden Brain Podcast, hosted by me, Shankar Vedantam, is here to help you get started. All through the month of July, Hidden Brain will bring you our your 2.0 series with a special focus on purpose, passion and meaning. If you're feeling adrift, alone or burned out, this series is for you. Join us.
- [87:50]
Reese's Voice
If this were a Reese's TV ad, you'd be staring at a Reese's Peanut Butter cup. And sure my voice is peanut buttery smooth, but still, you need to see the peanut butter cups, right? No, I can really just say Reese's and you'll go get some. Okay Reese's, Reese's Reese's really working. Actually Reese's Reese's this I'm on into something Reese's, Reese's Reese's Reese's.