← The School of Greatness
The School of Greatness
Why Winning Didn't Fix Me: The Truth About Pain | Kevin Love
01:13:53
Kevin Love is one of the most decorated players in NBA history, and he'll tell you that none of it prepared him for the real work: learning to feel. In this conversation, you'll discover what it actually takes to build emotional resilience before you hit rock bottom, and why facing athletic mortality may be the most clarifying moment of a man's life.
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- [00:01]
Lewis Howes
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- [01:51]
Kevin Love
I just kept thinking achieving more would make me feel better. It would take these dark feelings away. And this feeling that still lives in the pit of my stom stomach. I will get rid of this anxiety because I will have achieved this. And yet that's kind of where depression arises when you think that your brain is going to change. You go back to that that baseline after that huge dopamine hit and that achievement and you're left with the same brain that you've always had without doing the work.
- [02:17]
Lewis Howes
He is a five time NBA All Star, an Olympic gold medalist, 2016 NBA champion, and one of the most important voices in the mental health conversation. Please welcome Kevin Love. You spent nine years not speaking to both your mom and dad.
- [02:33]
Kevin Love
A lot of times I say less friends, less bull. And in the case it happened to be my family. But on the other side of that, it was so many great moments in me finding myself and being comfortable in my own skin.
- [02:43]
Lewis Howes
What do you think is at the root that you need to really heal?
- [02:46]
Kevin Love
I think it's.
- [02:48]
Lewis Howes
I'm so glad that you're here. I've been trying to have you on for a while, but you're a busy guy. Always know playing in season. But we have a number of things in common. One, we're both athletes. Two, you know, you lived a long time in Ohio. You won a championship in Ohio.
- [03:04]
Kevin Love
Eight and a half years.
- [03:05]
Lewis Howes
I'm from Ohio. Thank you for your service of winning, bringing a championship to Ohio. We're both have two daughters.
- [03:13]
Kevin Love
Yes.
- [03:13]
Lewis Howes
And we both lost our fathers recently.
- [03:15]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [03:16]
Lewis Howes
And we both been through our own healing journeys and talking about what it means to be a man and deal with a lot of psychological and emotional wounds that we don't know how to navigate or we didn't know how to navigate until we started opening up. So I want to acknowledge you first, Kevin, for being a voice of possibilities for so many people, specifically men, that, you know, us growing up, we didn't have a space, typically around our parents or around our peers to talk about our feelings or emotions, to talk about the confusion in our heart and our minds of why we're feeling something. And so most of our childhood grew up being driven to prove people wrong, driven to figure out how to overcome the anger, emotion because we didn't know how to communicate anything else, and driven to succeed to prove our value. So I want to acknowledge you for the last seven, eight years, opening up about your own mental and emotional challenges, being public about it, and creating a space for lots of not only young men, but also women to start to say, what can I do to start looking within myself about these emotions and mental challenges, start using them as a voice to my peers or getting help and improve my life. So I want to acknowledge you for the journey you've been on.
- [04:42]
Kevin Love
No, I appreciate it. No, it's very meaningful to be here. I think it takes a tribe, takes an army, and it's an accumulation having people like yourself in the space speak about it. So how many episodes again have we done?
- [04:52]
Lewis Howes
I think we're like 1800, so.
- [04:54]
Kevin Love
1800. I'm very happy to be a part of this.
- [04:57]
Lewis Howes
That's great, man.
- [04:58]
Kevin Love
Just continuing to try and keep moving the needle forward.
- [05:01]
Lewis Howes
It's great, man.
- [05:02]
Kevin Love
Important work.
- [05:02]
Lewis Howes
And I'm curious because, you know, it's a couple things that are fresh for you in your mind right now. You just finished the season for yourself. We were talking about this idea of athlete mortality. You know, you don't know how many more years you have left if you're supposed to keep playing, if you're not supposed to keep playing, your heart says you should, but you have two young daughters. I know now that I want to be around my daughters a lot who are six months old. First off, what is the main thing you're feeling and thinking, you know, I guess a couple days after the season about your future?
- [05:34]
Kevin Love
Yeah, I think facing athletic mortality, as you know, or anybody that has ever gone through that, which most people who have ever played sports, whether it be they finish senior year, high school and they're done with their varsity team and their season ends and they're trying to figure out what they're doing next or if they're going to school and college or what they're going to study or what their life is going to look like after their sport. And in some cases, like my own, when I started playing organized basketball since probably five or six years old, that this has been my identity for 30 plus years and what that's going to look like after my career is over and finishing my 18th season. On Sunday we played the Lakers and final buzzer went off, went to the locker room and everybody went on their separate ways, all of these things. And not to say it happened in that moment because it had been leading up to that as well. In the season before, what is my life going to look like after, you know, I throw those sneakers over the telephone wire, right? I take those off, I lay the jersey up before one more time, what is my identity? Who am I? What is my life going to look like moving forward? Because yes, I am a father. There's going to be a lot of opportunities for me outside of the world of basketball. And I've been able to build this, this legacy piece which is the Kevin Love Fund, and trying to impact people's lives like you have. And it's still very scary because that identity piece is a real thing. And it almost feels like a death. Like I lost my, my father last year and it's not really like I'm comparing the two. Although that hits close to home because he also played in the NBA. He played college at two time All American, both in high school and college. But it does feel like it's a, a huge loss is coming. So I think that also adds into the anticipatory grief as well. And that's what I'm dealing with. So I want to balance my time with my family and my daughters. Do I Want to play another year and, and be away from them as they're changing. My oldest daughter's two and a half. She'll be three in June. Youngest turned one on Valentine's Day. How do I want to balance that time? Have I done enough? When I look back and regret. We talked about inaction and action and how that lives in regret, but there's a lot there that is being considered and I think that there's high and low in all of those emotions that have me contemplating and looking at a lot and look at myself in the mirror and asking myself, how am I really feeling in the this moment?
- [08:05]
Lewis Howes
How are you really feeling in this moment?
- [08:07]
Kevin Love
Confused.
- [08:08]
Lewis Howes
Really.
- [08:08]
Kevin Love
It's confused. I think that came up before we came on. It's like confusion is, you know, an emotion and something I don't choose to explore that often you want to be. So I think I'm confused. I'm living in a little bit of fear and it's not for lack of opportunity. But I don't know what my life is without basketball being that first love and that, that priority. I'm not saying now that I'm in fatherhood and I'm a husband, that it's not, it's not my number one priority. But I've always kept the main thing, the main thing. And I've chased that and everything else I've wanted in life has chased me right back. So what is my life going to look like outside of basketball? I don't know. So it's confusing to say I'm not scared would. Would be a lie. But on the other side of that, I'm just very grateful and hopeful that things will work out as they should because I've, I've, I've learned a lot and doing this work on myself, I'm a lot more comfortable in my own skin. And you know, I say only by admitting who we are do we get what we want. To be very honest about that. I'm very honest about how I'm feeling right now, but still, it's. I'd be lying to you if I said it wasn't a scary thing to consider. And it's, it's now crept into my conscious and subconscious every single day, really. Every day.
- [09:29]
Lewis Howes
What's the thing you're most afraid of? About the unknown?
- [09:33]
Kevin Love
Of I don't care about being forgotten. I mean, I think we live in a world now where even the biggest stories and news cycles will be, you know, kind of recycled and, and chewed up and spit out in, in a week, maybe. Two weeks, right. And I'm not worried about being remembered or how I'll be looked at within the NBA. I just. Or within the game of basketball. I think it's. Some of it may be trauma related, some of it may be just that anxiety of picking up the ball. All the way through middle school, high school, college, NBA to now just. I've almost played half my life in the NBA. So like, what is it going to be after the fact? Will my family be the same? Will my girls be taken care of? And I don't know, it's, it's, it's not necessarily an identity crisis. It's not necessarily something that, you know, scares me not having basketball in my life. It's just more the unknown, I think scares a lot of people and gives a lot of people anxiety. And I'm, I'm no different. I'm the same way.
- [10:44]
Lewis Howes
And there's probably a lot of people that are watching or listening that are like, whatever, younger, maybe haven't been successful yet, maybe don't have the money that might be watching this saying, this is Kevin Love. He's won all these accomplishments, he's a gold medalist, NBA champion, he's got all the money in the world related to most people. How could he have any stress or fear or worry based on everything he's created? He's healthy, he's handsome, he's got the family. How can he be stressful if he's stressed out and uncertain and fearful? And I'm a 20 year old and I've got no money and nothing going for me. I'm screwed. Some. There might be people thinking that. And what would you say to them who are saying, man, your, your life is made, Kevin.
- [11:24]
Kevin Love
Right. You know, I would say, you know, it happened. I can remember, I use this, these references all the time about Kate Spade and Anthony Bourdain dating all the way back to 2018. So it was really, you know, I had my panic attack, very public panic attack in 2017, November 5th of that year at home in Cleveland. And 2018 started the fun. But we went to the finals, lost. And I can remember 2017.
- [11:55]
Lewis Howes
He lost.
- [11:55]
Kevin Love
No, 2018. So 2017 was the start of the season and then 2018 was the final. So Anthony Bourdain had died the morning of game four.
- [12:03]
Lewis Howes
Really?
- [12:04]
Kevin Love
NBA Finals, really? And wow, I can just remember that. And he was a guy like I always mentioned it, I've mentioned a number of times, spoken at length about it. Like he's got, you know, he felt like he lived vicariously through him, he had the greatest job in the world. And it was in a great relationship and obviously had suffered with addiction, had come through that, and now was like, universally well liked and well loved and seemed like he had everything right. And yet I think it was Bryan Cranston who said it. I always reference him as, like, if you just look at all this and look at the face of depression, everybody's smiling, everybody's happy. There's all these comedians or these people in the public eye that seemingly have it all. Like Kate Spade had said, you know, I, I didn't speak about it because I thought it would hurt my brand. Right. And sounds familiar. And Brian Cranston had said, you know, success is not immune to depression. So, like, it doesn't matter who you are. There's, you know, I always say there's nobody benefits from withholding compassion. And epigenetics are real. We spoke about that as well. So at a cellular level, depending on who your family is, who you come from, you know, these generational cycles, it can quite literally live with inside of you. But again, I don't dismiss anybody's struggle because everybody has their own story. Everybody's going to go through grief, the loss of a parent, everybody's going to go through some sort of trauma at some point in their life, whether it be young and their brains are still growing and they're still understanding who they are, and their nervous system is growing as well. So I would hope that people understand that we are tribal beings and we're all in this together. So. And just like I've practiced gratitude within all of this.
- [13:46]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, and I think it's also, we were talking about the documentary Weight of Gold, which I mentioned so many times on this show. So I'm glad you brought it up because, you know, a lot of times high achieving individuals like yourself or anyone at an elite level, they've usually come from some type of wound or some type of trauma where they're driven to overcompensate. You know, that was me. To prove people wrong, to like, whatever, to go for this thing and, and stand up for their, their dreams. That conditioning can teach us how to be driven to accomplish, but it doesn't teach us how to navigate our emotions. No, it doesn't teach it a lot of. And it doesn't teach you how to navigate success once you have it.
- [14:28]
Kevin Love
Right.
- [14:28]
Lewis Howes
So this idea of the Weight of gold, the documentary which everyone should watch, talks about these Olympic gold medalists or medalists who go through extreme depression within months after their Olympic medal or the Olympics, and a lot of them commit suicide within the first year or two after the Olympics. So it doesn't. Just because you succeed doesn't mean you're happy.
- [14:47]
Kevin Love
Right.
- [14:47]
Lewis Howes
It doesn't mean you have peace in your heart. And part of that drive to success might be because you're lacking it. Right. And we think once we accomplish, we'll feel better, but that doesn't usually happen. You sometimes feel worse. Right. Did you ever feel worse the more you accomplished?
- [15:03]
Kevin Love
Yes. And I've talked about that, too. Because you think it's going to fill a void.
- [15:06]
Lewis Howes
Yes.
- [15:07]
Kevin Love
And you think that you're going to. You truly believe in your heart that I can just achieve my way out of depression or I will get rid of this anxiety because I will have achieved this. But, like, we're so good at. I was even talking to somebody about it the other day because I just finished my 18th season. They're like, how long do you want to go? I was like, well, when I first came into the league, it was 10 years. Then it became 12 years, then it became 15. At 18, I thought, might as well make it to 20. So you keep moving that goalpost and you keep dangling the carrot outside of what you consider success. I just kept thinking achieving more would, you know, make me feel better. It would take these heavy and dark feelings away. And this feeling that still lives in the pit of my stomach as we talked about every single day that I continued to work on. And yet that just wasn't the case. I mean, it was actually very unhealthy for me to keep thinking like that and keep thinking I was going to establish more, I was going to have to make more money, I was going to have to get all these accolades, or I was going to have to just keep putting numbers on the board in whatever area that I thought would give me fulfillment.
- [16:14]
Lewis Howes
Right.
- [16:14]
Kevin Love
And yet that's kind of where depression arises or, like, comes up from dormancy is when you think that your brain is going to change or you think your nervous system, all these things are going to change within you. And yet you establish. You go back to that baseline after that huge dopamine hit and that achievement, and you're left with the same brain that you've always had without doing the work. So it makes sense that you would get to even a more sunken place hoping that that would heal you, because
- [16:43]
Lewis Howes
you had an expectation, I'm going to feel better. I did all this work for years to accomplish. I slayed every dragon. I'm the winner of whatever this Game is why do I feel worse?
- [16:56]
Kevin Love
Right?
- [16:56]
Lewis Howes
It's because you had this expectation and you still are the same person with just more shiny objects.
- [17:02]
Kevin Love
And we talked about sprinters too, right? Imagine you run the 100 meter and you're training for your entire life. But even if you go from Olympics to Olympics and it's a four year window, then you're like, is this all there is? I thought this was supposed to heal me. I thought this was supposed to make me happy. And it's not to say that in that moment and long term you're not going to be very proud and feel a sort of way about it, but to think that inherently that in itself is going to heal you is just not the case.
- [17:31]
Lewis Howes
It's not the case.
- [17:32]
Kevin Love
And you see it time and time again.
- [17:34]
Lewis Howes
On a scale of 1 to 10 currently in your life, how much pain do you feel in your body, in your nervous system and your emotions? 10 being like unbearable pain. 1 being you have complete inner peace. Where are you on that scale?
- [17:52]
Kevin Love
So you know, I talked about my knees. My knees would. Yeah. Scale of 1 to 10.
- [17:57]
Lewis Howes
Not physical pain.
- [17:58]
Kevin Love
I would tell you different.
- [17:59]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, yeah. Not physical pain, but the nervous system. Emotional, psychological.
- [18:03]
Kevin Love
Okay. So I would say on a daily basis, I'm my nervous system. And that feeling I told you of like that pit of anxiety in my stomach probably hums it five or six.
- [18:14]
Lewis Howes
Okay.
- [18:15]
Kevin Love
Which to me is like healthy. And I always talk about, I don't know if it's the anxiety or it's like the appropriate fear, you know, that, that feeling of being out in public and agoraphobia and you know, public embarrassment or my I'm doing something wrong or people are going to look at me and people are going to figure me out. Like that has become a lot better. I'm. I mean, can't tell you since how much better I've gotten with that since I started doing the work in 2017, that I actually not only feel com. More comfortable in my own skin, but I always say like, you can't use me against me. Like I've, I've laid out most of my cards.
- [18:52]
Lewis Howes
You've emailed yourself.
- [18:54]
Kevin Love
Do you say this too?
- [18:55]
Lewis Howes
I mean, I've said it before, but
- [18:57]
Kevin Love
are you literally say about this 8 mile thing. I have it. Hold on a second. You, you do this too. I'm like, you got, you guys. I use it. I'm like, you know B. Rabbit when he's just like, I live in a trailer with my mom. I'm a bum. You know, I use this all the time. Because, like, you. What are you going to say, Papa Doc? You just going to sit there and be like, I got nothing I've said.
- [19:13]
Lewis Howes
I mean, I wrote a whole book about all this stuff I've been. The stuff I told you in here. Like, I've shared all this in a book. I've shared it publicly on the podcast. Like all my traumas and wounds and fears and insecurities. You can't out share my traumas of me and my shame.
- [19:27]
Kevin Love
Right.
- [19:28]
Lewis Howes
You know, I've shared my.
- [19:29]
Kevin Love
You can't, like, you can't hurt me. It's. If I've already lived all that, I've already put myself through the worse scenarios and worse.
- [19:38]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [19:39]
Kevin Love
So many times. And that conflict or how that would look come from somebody else, and I would just be like, yeah, okay, well, you're right. Yeah.
- [19:46]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [19:46]
Kevin Love
So, like, what else?
- [19:47]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:48]
Kevin Love
You want to. You're not. There's nothing you're going to do to hurt me. So that's why you're the only other person I've ever referenced. 8 mile. That's so funny. I love that because it's so true. It's so true.
- [19:58]
Lewis Howes
So you feel like you're at a five or a six every day, but
- [20:01]
Kevin Love
it's a healthy five or six, if that even exists.
- [20:04]
Lewis Howes
There's still, you say, pain in the pit of your stomach.
- [20:07]
Kevin Love
Yeah. Kind of chest area. And I take daily medications. Yeah. I have my SSRIs, and those help. Like the. The anxiety and that feeling isn't coming out my extremities. Right. And I'm not sweating and then having the anxiety that I'm. I'm have something is going on, and then sweat more and then I, you know, overheat, and then that becomes this whole thing where I have to remove myself. Wow.
- [20:29]
Lewis Howes
Did that used to happen a lot?
- [20:31]
Kevin Love
Yeah. Well, and also it would manifest as. As where I didn't have the language to be able to express myself when I was young. So anybody that knows me knows I was rage. Rage fits. And that was what I saw from my father at home because he also didn't know. He, you know, that emotional intelligence wasn't taught to him at an early age. He only saw and knew what he knew and how to. How to deal with it. And, you know, we learn all these things from our parents.
- [20:59]
Lewis Howes
I mean, speaking of your parents, you told me before that you spent nine years not speaking to both your mom and dad. Just roughly. Yeah, roughly nine years. And this is when you were winning an NBA championship? I believe you won an Olympic gold medal during that time.
- [21:14]
Kevin Love
So that was before Olympic gold medal is 2012.
- [21:16]
Lewis Howes
Okay, okay. So it's before you were still talking to them.
- [21:20]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [21:20]
Lewis Howes
Okay, gotcha. But after that, you stopped talking to them.
- [21:24]
Kevin Love
Yeah, it was really around the 2016 playoffs and, and finals. So we, you know, and that's. Family dynamics are, you know, they're layered, they're multifaceted, and they're, They're. They're tough. I mean, even my. My dad's side of the family, it's well documented with the. With the loves and even the Wilsons that, you know, within the frame of rock and roll. And what Brian Wilson and what Mike love, my uncle, I've spoken about at length, but also in their memoirs and autobiography, like, they, you know, there's a lot of trauma there. There's a lot of emotional depth there. And, you know, even the Wilsons themselves have taken it to, you know, different levels and the loves. And my uncle has done an incredible job in navigating rock and roll in that space. And. But he was, you know, he's been doing TM and transcendental meditation for, I don't know, 60 years. He's a, you know, one of the OGs in that and done. Done really great. But still, no, I mean, I think my dad caught a lot of that as well. And there were times where, you know, the household there was full of landmines. And, you know, if it's going to be screaming or something physical was going to happen, or it was, you know, just landmine, slam doors, screaming, all that stuff. So when.
- [22:43]
Lewis Howes
When did you feel like you needed to create a boundary and say, like, I need to cut them out or I need to have the boundary? Or, like, how did that come about inside of you to say, okay, enough is enough. This is not healthy for me to have this relationship at this season of life.
- [22:55]
Kevin Love
Yeah, I think it was from my end needing to take a look at myself and understand that I needed to grow, too. And sometimes if things aren't, excuse me, adding up, you need to start subtracting. And I thought that in that case, keeping my circle small, even a lot of times I say less friends, less bullshit. And in the case it happened to be my family. But on the other side of that, it was. It led to so many great moments in me finding myself and being comfortable in my own skin and going through that process where at the end of my father's life, which was last April, it was a beautiful moment of. And of course, everything wasn't figured out. And there were some things that we just wanted to put to the side and say, hey, let's focus on the good. Because obviously a couple things can be. I talked to Dr. Conti about it. Like, two things. So many things can be possible and true at the same time. Like, I didn't get what I needed, but I also had a great childhood and got what I needed as well, which was amazing. Like, I chose to. My dad just would have a 77th birthday on. On April 9th. I. We, my mom and I, my brother and sister all chose to celebrate him. That's cool. And there was reconciliation and there was forgiveness at the end of it. And he was the guy I looked at as, like, my hero growing up, and he was the one who handed me the basketball. But was he perfect? Was I have a perfect son? Was our relationship perfect? No. And, you know, I needed that time in order to find myself and. And to give myself, find the both. Both the good and the bad. But also it allowed me in my personal life to be a better father, both from his success and even more so his failures. The same thing happened with my career through the lens of his life and his career, and then I think just overall satisfaction and fulfillment looking at him. So again, in all of it, he taught me a lot. He's probably my greatest teacher.
- [25:01]
Lewis Howes
What was the greatest lesson he taught you? On the empowering side and maybe the side that you didn't enjoy as much of, what not to do.
- [25:09]
Kevin Love
So in terms of basketball, because I say that's where he had the. The biggest influence on me was how to approach the game. And also, like, aggressive will, like going out there. And it's become such a country club sport now, where it's like, if you can pay for the trainer, if you can pay for the strength and condition coach, if you can pay for travel, basketball and all, you know, all these things that we couldn't afford, right. That he put me in a place to have a particular mindset. I didn't have the language to be able to, like, express myself and how I was feeling, but he channeled all of that rage and anger and showing me how to play and through his mind and his. Also his failures. Like, he was very open and he admitted a lot about him not being able to. He didn't work hard enough. He was a free spirit. He was, you know, playing for the Lakers and then. And playing is a strong word with her. And then, you know, touring with the Beach Boys in the summertime. So, like, he wasn't there was no,
- [26:12]
Lewis Howes
he's living the dream though.
- [26:13]
Kevin Love
I mean he was living the dream but then, you know, his career only lasted just under five years and you know, he's, he think looked at me and sometimes I caught, you know, let's call it some heat and some ugliness from him because he probably saw me and so and thought I don't want my son to I guess fail, even though he made it in that way. But he didn't want me to end up like him. He wanted me to have a long career, chase the game, put in the work, be a self starter and where he is free spirited and just kind of went to the beat of his own drum. He wanted me to be a different way. So I think in that way he taught me something different. And also I think on the other side it was, I mean, both good and bad because like I, we have daughters now and my, my sister's the youngest of the three so I have older brother Colin, younger sister Emily. And he was so gentle with her. Right. So he also like taught me that whereas like not to be how he was with like my brother especially still does. But like looks like a love, looks exactly like my dad did when he was born and growing up. So I'm like, that probably has to be tough for him. And then, you know, for me I was the, the outlier, the high achiever and kind of the, the kid that was the golden child, number one player in the country. The kid that, you know, had to be protected. And while there some ways were instances where he didn't do that, in other ways he was the guy that would, you know, take the bullet for me, stand in front of me. So again, there's duality in, in both of it. There's a, there's a balance. But you know, it's, it's true that I did get what I need, but also didn't at the same time.
- [27:58]
Lewis Howes
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- [30:43]
Kevin Love
Yeah, he got really sick. Yeah, I got cancer. And you know I, I, I, you know, we had again talked about, and I mentioned it briefly at the beginning, that regret is tied up so much in inaction. I did not want to regret at the end of his life and then at the end of mine and in the short term, near term and long term, how I would feel about not having some of those conversations and forgiving like that would be drinking my own poison. Right. And then having some sort of reconciliation at the end of his life. So.
- [31:22]
Lewis Howes
And you got to have that.
- [31:23]
Kevin Love
Yeah, it was probably the last 16 months or so of his life. 16, 18 months. And then, you know, he went into hospice about the last six weeks of his life. And then, like I said, late April of last year had passed away.
- [31:37]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [31:37]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [31:38]
Lewis Howes
I mean, it's almost been a year then. How are you feeling one year after his passing?
- [31:43]
Kevin Love
Still confused. Last year was a, probably the, you know, personally, one of, if not the hardest year, you know, of, of of my life because he, you know, I had to watch his and get his leg amputated. And, you know, at a certain point, I forget that, what the statistics are. You know, you break your hip past the age of 75 or maybe even 70. So, like, and then you have a, a window, a window of months. I think it's six months or a year maybe. And, you know, he had broken his hip, so that sped up the, the process as well. So he had to get two surgeries within the course of four days. And that was in late October and then early November of, of, of last year. And then things just progressively got worse because it was apparent that he would never get out of his hospital bed again. So we moved him home and yeah, hospice. That's where my mom is just such an angel and a godsend. I don't know how she had the capacity to physical and emotional capacity to be able to actually take care of him. She was a career nurse. And I mean, just I look at her with a whole new lens after that because she kept him alive for so long and was on call for him 24 7. I mean, it was really an unbelievable feat to watch. That's longevity right there.
- [33:00]
Lewis Howes
Oh, my gosh. I've heard from a lot of people that say, you truly don't become a man until you've lost your father and until you have kids. And I lost my father four years ago, and you lost yours a year ago, and we both have young kids now. Right. Do you feel like in any way that's true for you, that you, like, now that you've lost your Father. And you're also a father. Do you feel like you're stepping into being a man more for sure.
- [33:27]
Kevin Love
Especially we. It's new for you having, having daughters. You're six months in, right, with, with. With twins. So I mean, you had two. Bang, bang.
- [33:36]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [33:38]
Kevin Love
And so I have a. Yeah, again, two and a half year old daughter and a year. A year old. And I think it's just completely changed my perspective and they say it softens you when you have daughters too. It's funny. Like I'll watch a news story because of course the news is so happy and. Or I'll watch a movie that. And I think it makes. I don't know what people would say or if there's like science or data behind this, but hopefully it means I'm emotionally intelligent. It's like I am such. More. So much more of like a wet person now that I have daughters. And I'm softer because of it. And I see things through a, A different lens when I see these stories about not only family conflict, but loss and movies with, you know, heavy emotional depth and, you know, familial adversity. Those type of things that hit so much different now that I've had kids and from the loss of my father as well, but also, you know, the, the good and bad in both from, you know, the, the relationship with my dad. It also just taught me so much in. In what. To be in a father in a big way. So I'm. I'm extremely grateful for that and I choose to celebrate that.
- [34:53]
Lewis Howes
That's cool.
- [34:54]
Kevin Love
You know, through that lens.
- [34:55]
Lewis Howes
That's cool, man. I want to go back to your, your pain, your nervous system pain. I'm curious. What do you think would take for you to create true inner peace into and to heal the different pain that you have that you're experiencing. And you've done a lot of work on this already. You've worked with like the top psychologists and therapists and Dr. Paul Conti and who's been on here. But what do you think is at the root that'll. That you need to really heal?
- [35:21]
Kevin Love
I think it's that. I think it's. Especially in considering where I'm at in my career as well. I think it's an accumulation of, of all of these things and stripping. Stripping it all back. But I do think it's. I was a precocious kid. I was an outlier. I was somebody who from the age of five or six when I started playing organized basketball and was playing three grades up with my brother you know, people were like, oh, that kid is, you know. Right. And it was pretty apparent what I could be. And I think unpacking and my dad put a lot of pressure on me, and so did the community that I was in. And I was a big fish in a smaller pond in Portland, Oregon, but I was the number one player in the country pretty. Pretty early. Or a top few player in the country pretty early. And was.
- [36:04]
Lewis Howes
That's a pressure also. It's like when someone says, okay, here's the number one.
- [36:07]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [36:08]
Lewis Howes
Person in the country. You're what, 16, 17 or 18.
- [36:11]
Kevin Love
Yeah. Maybe even younger. And I was.
- [36:13]
Lewis Howes
That's a lot of pressure.
- [36:14]
Kevin Love
Yeah. I think there was a. Probably 14, I would say, because we went to a. A the national championships in Orlando, Florida. And I came out of that, you know, ranked maybe the number two or number one guy in the country.
- [36:28]
Lewis Howes
For your age group or for, like, age group. This is aau. Is this, like this au.
- [36:32]
Kevin Love
So this for the. This for the country. And. Wow. It was. Yeah. Pretty well known then that I was, you know, going to be the next guy up. The next guy up.
- [36:41]
Lewis Howes
What does that feel like? You're 14 and you're essentially the number one player in the country. What does it do for your identity, your psychology? Like, does it excite you? Do you build a level of confidence that's like your ego explodes? Yes. Really?
- [36:53]
Kevin Love
All the above. And I guess where I'm like, you know, I talked about, like, having shame shivers, and I still think about it now, and I've seen a lot of people that I went to high school with since, and every time I see them, I'm like, in some cases, I apologize, but I'm like, we were all feeling certain big emotions at that time. I wish I could go back there and change this. But no, just like, you know, if I offloaded hurt, I apologize. Oh, man. Because I was feeling some sort of way. And like, of course, when you're young, it's like, you know, you talked about, like, you know, you want to put your arm around your boy and he's like, you know, get off me. Get off me for, you know, we use certain words for it. Yeah. Like, it's just. I'm happy to see at least, like, in my font and the work we do now, like, kids are so much more open to being vulnerable or open to change, which is really cool to see because I never had that and I never really had those conversations. There was one other friend, and it's my other best friend from back home is the Only guy I would have that with. But even then, I'm just like, at other people's expense, I would offload these things. And I look back and it kind of makes me sad, and I'm shameful of that. But I think, going back to your question, it's been unpacking, I don't know, 30, 25, 30 ish years of expectation as well. And factor that into quite literally everything and what that means for, you know, all of the emotionality that I've dealt with over the course of time. It's. It's. It's. You know, that word keeps coming back. It's confusing. It's very confusing. So unpacking that has been something that I think will help start that process. And then the unpacking needs to continue to happen with whatever trauma or whatever I was feeling at the time, whatever confusion and knowing that all of my feelings were valid, both good and bad. I need to keep telling myself that because I keep telling myself, like, who am I to think like that? It's just like the kids that you speak of, like, look, he has everything. Why does he feel like this? And it's like, you know, different. Different bucket, different scoreboard. Yeah, man. I don't think it matters. I think it transcends. Everybody has their story and how they. How they deal with it and how they feel.
- [39:11]
Lewis Howes
Do you think it would have been possible for you to have a quote, unquote healthier childhood, you know, a less traumatic childhood or a more healthy relationship with your emotions and your parents, and you still be able to accomplish what you've accomplished in your career?
- [39:28]
Kevin Love
See, that's a great question, because as an athlete, you know, this, like, my. I always say it was a gift and a curse because my anger, my rage that was, like, stemmed from the anxiety and the whatever darkness or not wanting to come out of the room or not having the emotional availability or intelligence or bandwidth or budgeting my stress? I, you know, I'd want to, like, stay in my room, in a dark room and then go practice and lift weights. And then I'd have to go to school. And then, like, you know, I wanted, like, a girlfriend to love me and then, like, be with my boys and be like. Like, it was. Some of it was healthy, some of it not so much, but it was. I feel like that especially the. The strong, heavy anxiety was such a driving force. So I'm like, it was a gift and a curse. It still is. I almost. I always ask the question, and I don't mean this to be, you Know, it might come up, it might not, but I'm like, did, did I leave stuff on the table? Because I, I. Not because I started getting the, the help, but, like, did any of the, the medication or, or any of the things that I did to heal heal, which is overwhelmingly a positive, but did it take away that, like, edge. Edge to go for it? I don't know.
- [40:52]
Lewis Howes
Really.
- [40:53]
Kevin Love
I don't know.
- [40:54]
Lewis Howes
I don't know. Do you think you've been less successful in your athletic career since starting the healing process?
- [40:59]
Kevin Love
I think just at my, my prime because of my body was just earlier, but that thought creeps in. I, I truly believe that, like, I, I was on the athletic decline as far as my, my right athletic prime goes.
- [41:13]
Lewis Howes
You were at the top. Yeah. Yeah.
- [41:14]
Kevin Love
Without a doubt. My life satisfaction is higher.
- [41:18]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [41:18]
Kevin Love
Right. Like, is there fulfillment needs that are there on every side? Sure. Like, but again, I think it's continuing to.
- [41:26]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. I'm curious where. What life would have been like if, you know, if you just had a healthier relationship with emotions and parents growing up and you were cultivated, an environment of being driven without anger. I wonder.
- [41:41]
Kevin Love
Well, it's like Michael Jordan, right? I just have to bring him up. I'm not saying anything, anything similar, but that mindset of like, he, he. I mean, I was only. Because I was talking about the Last Dance last night. I've watched it six times.
- [41:54]
Lewis Howes
I love it.
- [41:55]
Kevin Love
And he's like, I took that personal. Right. He would just keep making up enemies, whether it was real or not. He would just keep making up these things that happened, didn't happen. And so therefore, like, he's playing tricks on his mind to create.
- [42:09]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. Tom Brady did a lot of that too.
- [42:11]
Kevin Love
He did a lot of that too. Right. And he talks about it. I love his mindset too. He's like, what did he say? What was that like? Okay. And I think that, that you have to get your brain there. And you know, people say psych yourself up in a way that gets you to a point of reaching your athletic ceiling and capabilities, but the question is, I don't know. But do I think I would have been able to achieve what I achieved without that form of adversity. I would lean towards saying no. So I almost. And I almost feel like it's, it's a good way of telling kids like you, you can work on it, but also use channel. Find a way to channel it as a gift to put it elsewhere, put that energy elsewhere, harness it elsewhere. But I don't know how. At least at the Time. I didn't know if that was even possible. I still don't know if it's completely possible. Interesting. Both.
- [43:03]
Lewis Howes
You know, I mean, as a father now, I'm thinking the same thing. I'm like, I want my daughters to be successful in their life and accomplish, but I don't want them to have. I want them. I want to create controlled adversity.
- [43:13]
Kevin Love
Yes.
- [43:14]
Lewis Howes
That they need to learn how to overcome, but also give them a lot of love. You know what I'm saying? I don't want to, like, fracture their psychology, so they're like, I have to go prove myself to my dad or something. You know, it's like, that's not my intention. And I'm curious. Do you know anyone in the league or who's maybe retired or still playing that really has a lot of love and peace in their heart? Like, truly has love? Not saying they're perfect and maybe they have some challenges, but they just seem like they're super healthy in their nervous system, and yet they're just killers on the court. Do you know anyone like that who's like, man, they've just, like. They just seem peaceful and calm and harmonious. I just watched the documentary with. What's the guy's name? The former Laker Lamar Odom. I mean, I don't know if you've seen this one yet on Netflix. The.
- [44:01]
Kevin Love
Not saying I lived it with him, but Lamar and I. Yeah, we were on the world championship team together. Same agent. I was there. Yeah.
- [44:08]
Lewis Howes
I mean, did you watch the Untold Series with him?
- [44:10]
Kevin Love
Right.
- [44:11]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. He's still got some stuff inside of him, but it's like, oh, yeah, what was that?
- [44:15]
Kevin Love
A traumatic childhood. That was.
- [44:17]
Lewis Howes
Oh, yeah. Did he. I mean, what was that experience like with him then?
- [44:23]
Kevin Love
No, just being around him. I was. I was there when, you know, he first started his, you know, relationship with. With Chloe, which had to have been around 2009, 2010.
- [44:32]
Lewis Howes
And you guys were on the same team, which.
- [44:34]
Kevin Love
So. World championship team. We played in Istanbul and won a gold medal together.
- [44:38]
Lewis Howes
Okay. USA Team.
- [44:39]
Kevin Love
USA Team. So then played against some. The Lakers. We had the. We had the same agent. Basketball agent.
- [44:45]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [44:45]
Kevin Love
And so I got to know Lamar pretty well, and even through all the traumatic experiences that I learned about that he had and, you know, growing up, very traumatic. You could see where those. Where those came from, especially after watching that documentary. But, you know, you could also see the. The spiral in and all. And no one could prepare him for what was. What was coming. It was. It was really, really sad. And when you know somebody at that level, which I knew Lamar relatively well, it's painful to see you sympathize and you feel for him in a major way because, you know that's one of your brothers. It's like, you know, it's such an elite fraternity already.
- [45:25]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [45:26]
Kevin Love
With 450 players. But when you win a gold medal with somebody and you've gone and been in the trenches with them and this person has put his arm around you and, you know, helped you in your career, it's, it's, it's, it's tough to, to, to watch that, especially when now you know just how far it went.
- [45:45]
Lewis Howes
Oh, yeah, yeah, it was dark.
- [45:46]
Kevin Love
It's very dark.
- [45:47]
Lewis Howes
Is there anyone in the league then that you've seen or know that you're just like, oh, they seem to have it. Life figured out internally and they can go out and do well at an elite level or has everyone just got
- [46:00]
Kevin Love
no, you know, I think every. Yeah, everybody driven by pain. But I look at guys that, you know, of course, like, LeBron is an example, but like, Steph Curry is a great example.
- [46:10]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, he seems very peaceful inside.
- [46:12]
Kevin Love
He seems very peaceful inside. You know, he, he's very healthy. Family life healthy. He, you know, has, you know, a lot of what he does is based around faith and family. He just seems like he, he has an amazing foundation and even, what is he, 16 years into the league is still performing at his level. He's the one that I would circle outside of the realm of guys that I've, I've, I've played with, even though he was on that 2010 team as well. But, and I hated him for four years playing him in the finals. But he's somebody that I would circle as, you know, somebody who really has it together, you know, emotionally, spiritually, and has taken care of his body. So, like, just checked so many boxes.
- [46:56]
Lewis Howes
So it's possible to be world class. One of the best. It is. Yeah.
- [47:01]
Kevin Love
I think it's extremely rare.
- [47:02]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, exactly.
- [47:03]
Kevin Love
Extremely rare. But I think that his biggest fight right now is probably like father time and then time in general, just being around his family and around his kids. But I think that from the outside looking in and knowing Steph relatively well is he has a great work life balance, and he chases both with everything he seems to, he seems to have it like that is. It looks, that's what success for the most part should. Should look like. It looks right.
- [47:32]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, and he looks right. He's a good relationship with the parents, and it's like he seems like joyful
- [47:37]
Kevin Love
a lot of the time and he probably has, there's trauma in there and there's things that have happened but it truly seems like he's, he's in, he's in a good place and you don't get to where he is alpha also without. He's a great communicator.
- [47:49]
Lewis Howes
You can tell and one of the things that he, you know, you mentioned is faith. It's like after every shot he's connected to God or after every make it looks like. What's your relationship with God and faith?
- [48:02]
Kevin Love
For me it's always just I've had my own internal belief system. You know it's funny, I've studied Muslims, Buddhists, Christians, you know, we. I'm not gonna say I grew up Catholic, but I grew up going to church with, with my grandmother. But no, I just higher power. I guess I believe in that. I believe in, you know, good energy. I do have a internal belief system and a belief system that is strong but any which way faith leaning I'm you know, not exactly sure. Like my, my wife, my wife is Jewish and so like I'm kind of spread all over. I just love people.
- [48:47]
Lewis Howes
Guys, we gotta talk about your secret late night Internet searches. You know the ones. Bumpy leg rash, hair loss. Trying to figure out your body by endlessly searching for answers. We've all done it and it never works. Thankfully there's Amazon Health AI. It can connect your symptoms with your medical history to offer personalized care 24 7. So call off the search. Amazon Health AI is here. Health care just got less painful. It's time to spring into deals at Lowe's. Freshen up your yard with stay green premium 2 cubic foot mulch, 5 bags for $10. Then head inside and save up to 35% off select major appliances and to keep clothes, food and dishes fresh. Plus get an additional $100 off select laundry pairs. The season's best lineup is here at Lowe's. Valid through May 6th. While supplies last selection varies by location. Mulch offer excludes Alaska and Hawaii. See associate or lowe's.com for details. I guess it's just interesting because you mentioned Steph of like the one guy who is in the league who's, you know, I'm sure he's not the only one but the highest level of success who also is connected to faith. I wonder if that brings him a level of peace. I believe and healing that I'm curious to you know, ask him that one day. Like hey, is this. Do you feel like if you didn't have God or faith in your relationship, whatever that relationship is.
- [50:20]
Kevin Love
Right.
- [50:20]
Lewis Howes
Do you feel like you would have this much peace?
- [50:22]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [50:22]
Lewis Howes
I wonder what his answer would be.
- [50:24]
Kevin Love
I couldn't answer it for him, but I would. I would almost guarantee you with how him and Aisha met each other and how they grew up and how his parents raised him. I would bet. Interesting. That's the case. And those are great. Belief systems are amazing to have. I think a big part of it is you find it in different stages and times throughout your life. But, yeah, for me, I think it's, you know, just everybody has their different belief system.
- [50:55]
Lewis Howes
How do you. How do you plan to protect your peace going into this next season? You know, not literal season, but also season of life, whatever with whatever you choose to do.
- [51:06]
Kevin Love
Yeah, I think just doing my work early, I think it's leaning into. Yeah. Not only my therapy, but, you know, like the saying, kill the body, the mind will die. Take care of my body in case I do decide to play again. And there is a job there for me in a place that's going to make my family and I happy. Focus and be highly intentional on spending the time with my girls. Because at this age, I mean, you're starting to notice it now, too. Like, they change so fast.
- [51:35]
Lewis Howes
Crazy, man.
- [51:35]
Kevin Love
They change so fast. Every day they wake up, I'm like, yeah, even from. So my youngest daughter, she turned one on Valentine's Day. And even these couple months that have followed, the change has been astronomical. And then my two and a half year old, it's like every two weeks, it's, you know, you're not saying offagore anymore. You're saying Aquaphor. Like, bring back. Bring back. You saying words wrong.
- [51:58]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, yeah. The cute little.
- [51:59]
Kevin Love
Cute. Oh, my God. It's like the, you know, death of one stage, rebirth of another. But I'm like, I need that stage back. So I'm find myself scrolling my phone and looking at that. So that's what makes it hard being away. So I want to be highly intentional with my time spent with them. And then just, you know, also having balance, you know, away from the floor and, you know, different things that I love, whether it be, you know, writing or photography or travel or, you know, any of those things that getting out in the sun and letting the sun hit me in the morning, like, all these things that, you know, make me feel really good, both body, mind and spirit. So, like, I really want to focus on that. So no matter what happens, both good and bad, I will Be prepared for, for it.
- [52:42]
Lewis Howes
Has your mental routine changed over the last 18 seasons in the NBA where you know you used to prepare a certain way before big games, now you prepare differently or has it been consistent throughout and if so, what is that routine to get you mentally ready right before a game?
- [53:00]
Kevin Love
Yeah, I think it's all nervous system related now. Like if I'm, you know where as I used to listen to like you know, really like strong, heavy, like hard either, you know, rap or music that would, you know, inspire me to want to like channel that type of. Yeah, exactly. But like kind of lose my emotions in it now. It's like could still be that level of, of of you know, cadence within like a beat or a rhythm or that sort of thing. But typically like no words really or it'll be something that like just calms my nervous system. So I think music is a part of my family so therefore a huge part of my life is always on. So I think music plays a huge and sound plays a huge part in that as well as in terms of the senses. But mostly yeah, eat the same. Make sure I'm fueled, right. I shouldn't say eat the same as like my first few years because I didn't know what I was doing. But routine wise everything is always very punctual. Very, very much at the same time. A little superstitious in that way really.
- [54:04]
Lewis Howes
What's the food? What's the same meal?
- [54:06]
Kevin Love
You know, it's like start just like you know, white rice and chicken and avocado and just making it sure it's, it's balanced and get my hydration right. But it's so much more advanced now than it was when I came in in 0809.
- [54:17]
Lewis Howes
Just having a pizza or whatever.
- [54:19]
Kevin Love
Yeah, just whatever was there. You grabbed and got the, got the calories and hope it worked out for you and wonder why you crashed or you didn't. Right.
- [54:26]
Lewis Howes
So at this point, age, you know, you mentioned father time. That's something I'm trying to battle with as well is like fighting father time is like how can I extend my athletic journey towards my olympic dreams for LA 2028. The best way I can with a little over two years away and, and I'll be 45 at that time. So the idea of like how do I continue to stay mentally young and physically young to prevent injuries to give myself the ability to live a dream. How do you think about the, I guess mortality of your body in with 22 year olds who are just freak athletes in the NBA now like These guys are jumping out of the gym. They're just doing unbelievable athletic feats every night. How do you think about that, knowing, oh, maybe I don't have that little step that I used to have, maybe I'm not jumping that many more inches above the rim that I used to. How do you navigate that internally, knowing the end may be a year or two, three years away, but it's like it's here at some point, sooner than it is later.
- [55:36]
Kevin Love
I try to use this for sure. Study the game. Study film.
- [55:38]
Lewis Howes
Yes.
- [55:39]
Kevin Love
The film doesn't lie. Hopefully they haven't figured that out yet. So I have that advantage.
- [55:43]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [55:45]
Kevin Love
On them. But I think in terms of my body, it's like cortisol. Cortisol. Cortisol. Like, how do I keep the inflammation down? Because I always, you know, there's always some. Some sort of stress response or something that will set you off throughout the course of the day. But if you can try and limit that as much as possible while also knowing that you're going to be burning it at both ends if you're going in and lifting weights and, and doing sprints and putting all that stress on your body and your knees and your back over the course of time, it's certainly an accumulation. I have a lot of miles on me having played 18 seasons, plus, you know, working out in the summertime, plus playing, you know, USA Basketball. So, you know, for me, it's. It's keeping the inflammation down, it's eating right, it's sleeping right, having proper balance, so there's no burnout. But again, I'm never going to get those steps back that I once had. Just stabilizing. See where you can improve. Summertime off season is a. Is a. Is a great chance to do that, do that. Always being curious and trying to learn as much as you possibly can about, you know, how you can help your body, how you can help your body grow, mind grow, and hopefully you'll be able to teach those guys.
- [57:01]
Lewis Howes
So, man. Because I'm kind of in that season now as well, where I can see, see, I'm still able to be effective and I'm athletic.
- [57:07]
Kevin Love
Just can't do it.
- [57:07]
Lewis Howes
And it's like. But I'm not jumping 361leg off, landing on the same foot, like, you know, reaching back and doing all the crazy stuff used to when you're 26 and you can just recover like that. And so how do you think about it around confidence and psychologically knowing that you're. I don't want to Say you're not as good because you're better in other ways, but athletically, you're just, you know,
- [57:34]
Kevin Love
I didn't wish you had this mind with that body.
- [57:36]
Lewis Howes
Exactly.
- [57:36]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [57:36]
Lewis Howes
How do you. How do you deal with it psychologically to not let your confidence go down knowing that you're a different athlete? Let me say that.
- [57:45]
Kevin Love
Yeah, I think it's focusing. Like, I know that at a very elite level that I can still rebound the ball. At elite level, I can shoot the ball. Elite level, I can pass the ball. And also admitting, like, where I'm at in my career, but understanding where I add value.
- [58:01]
Lewis Howes
Right.
- [58:01]
Kevin Love
So focusing on those things. Fine tuning as well. I always say you can hear a great team. So, like, our young guys don't like to communicate. I didn't hear much this year.
- [58:10]
Lewis Howes
That's it, man.
- [58:11]
Kevin Love
So that was a great thing that, you know, I learned, especially when I got to the Cavs and had to be a championship team, is that we had to. We had to speak. We had to communicate, if not off the floor, then on the floor to get the best out of each other. So I think that's.
- [58:28]
Lewis Howes
It's a. Both and on and off, on and off.
- [58:31]
Kevin Love
I mean, you. You need it, but, you know, there's. There's exceptions to the rule. Like, of course, you know, Kobe and Shaq hated each other at some point, and yet they were just, you know, two of the top few players in the league at the same time, playing on the same team. So there's that. But we. No, we were great communicators, and we also had fun together and we trusted each other. So I think that was.
- [58:50]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, that was huge. I hear a lot of, you know, it's talk and touch. It's like, the more you talk with each other and the more you touch each other. You know, Steve Nash, he was like, didn't they do a study on him? Like, the most touches.
- [59:01]
Kevin Love
Yep.
- [59:02]
Lewis Howes
He was like, of the whole season. Right.
- [59:04]
Kevin Love
It was him, like, positive affirmations, basically.
- [59:06]
Lewis Howes
And he was the mvp. Like, he had the most touches, and he was always positively speaking into the players. And I think if the coach isn't interesting, it's a talk and touch. And I think that's something I'm thinking a lot of this season of my life in handball is like, I can cheer the whole game on the. If I'm on the bench and I'm not playing, I can be cheering and screaming positively for each player on. And that's what I do. If I'm not playing in the game. I'm like, you got this. Keep it up. I'm just speaking.
- [59:36]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [59:36]
Lewis Howes
And trying to encourage others to communicate because that's infectious leadership.
- [59:41]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [59:42]
Lewis Howes
And it's a workout, too. Screaming the whole. It's like, oh, yeah.
- [59:45]
Kevin Love
Oh, it's a. Yeah. I have that first. That first seat next to our coaching staff. It goes down the line and I, for the most part, try and be the first out to give everybody love.
- [59:56]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, it's good.
- [59:57]
Kevin Love
After a timeout or after end of a quarter, something like that, because I think that that is infectious. And you see more and more people jumping off the bench and going to do that. So celebrate your teammates. I think it's huge. And you need to be in that positive mindset because in athletics and in so many, like, you're. You're one play away. You're one play away. Like, it's just the reality of it all.
- [60:20]
Lewis Howes
From what?
- [60:20]
Kevin Love
From both. Okay. So if you're out there playing big minutes, if something were to happen, so you see it all the time, the next person is going to be up, coming to take your spot. Right. And if you're in a bad mindset and you're not celebrating that person, you're thinking, you know, like, screw this, screw the team and organization. They're not giving me my opportunity. Like, you're so much better off being in the other, like, growth type of mindset and celebrating others and celebrating your people in the locker room while establishing a healthy locker room and healthy space and healthy culture that when you have the opportunity, I think you're so much better off with that. You're going to have your teammates trust and they're going to be like, oh, I like playing with this guy. And those minutes are going to be there. So, like, you have to keep working. You have to be intentional about how you do it and how you navigate it.
- [61:07]
Lewis Howes
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- [63:03]
Kevin Love
I would say certainly the first thing that comes to mind is being outspoken about my mental health, how it's affected me and how I've come out the other side and the community and fund that I've created and impact not only on my, on others, but myself through it all. So that's one how important my relationships in my life have been to me. Like there's a family you're born to, the family you make along the way. Right. The family that I've made along the way and the relationships that I've, I've leaned into. And really specifically there's been people that have been with me over the course of time, meaning my two best friends from back home. And then I've been with the same agent, I've been with a few of the same people my entire career. But really the last 10 or so years, I say 10 because that was our 2016 team won the championship. And then in 2017, 18 was a really tough and trying year for me. After that, everything I learned about myself and those people who were continue to be there for me.
- [64:14]
Lewis Howes
You learn about the people who show up for you during those times and those who you thought would have.
- [64:19]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [64:20]
Lewis Howes
That you're probably no longer in your life.
- [64:21]
Kevin Love
I agree. So that's where, where that comes in as well. And also I would say now, because it's so fresh on my mind and because having lost a parent just this past year. Yeah. What fatherhood, what is. Taught me, you know, what is most important and how much fatherhood and being a parent changes your life. So I'd probably say those three things. So it's. Yeah, the mental health journey. It is relationships and friendships, and then it's.
- [64:54]
Lewis Howes
That's beautiful. And, you know, I hope you get to 20 if that's what you want or as long as you want to go towards. But if you could go from year 18 and if you could go into the future to the last day of your NBA career, your last game, where the shoes are out on the court, the jersey's hung up, what do you want this moment, until the very end of your NBA career to be the things you're remembered for separate from these first 18 years.
- [65:23]
Kevin Love
I think especially now, I've. Speaking of fulfillment, we talked about fulfillment and searching for that and wanting that. And what makes me happy now is, like, the impact that I've had on guys. I never thought I would be that
- [65:38]
Lewis Howes
guy, because I think coming into the
- [65:40]
Kevin Love
league, I was so. Had the blinders on and, you know, had some very selfish and narcissistic qualities, which, again, it's like, you. Sometimes you need. You. You need those, and you have to be a little off to be great or have an opportunity to be great, and you sacrifice a lot. And you think, I. You know, I deserve this because I've put in the work and I've had these breaks, and this is, you know, it's mine for the taking. So it's me, me, me. But again, that. One of the things I do look back at is, like, would it have been a less lonely existence? My first six years in the league in Minnesota, had I been like, all right, guys, like, wrap my arms around my teammates. We were losing so much. I'm like, I'm gonna go out and try and will us to victory, but if not, I'm. I'm gonna, you know, put up serious numbers, and either you guys are coming with me or you're not. So I was like, wow. You know, it's one. It was one of those things. So I didn't realize what it meant to sacrifice and be a great teammate until I got to Cleveland, Really. And it came with some.
- [66:46]
Lewis Howes
That's Ohio boys. Yeah.
- [66:47]
Kevin Love
You know, it's like, it came with some tough, tough learning experiences. But, no, if. If not for Cleveland, if not for Ohio, if not for the Cavaliers, having learned those lessons, Some the hard way, some not so hard, but some very much the hard way. Then I wouldn't be who I am today. And interesting, you know, leaving guys in a better place professionally and personally in their careers, because I never had that veteran my first six years of the league. Not. Not somebody like that.
- [67:15]
Lewis Howes
Who taught you this in Cleveland? Like, how did this come about where
- [67:19]
Kevin Love
you're like, Channing Fry and Richard Jefferson?
- [67:20]
Lewis Howes
Really?
- [67:21]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [67:21]
Lewis Howes
They were like, jefferson, huh?
- [67:22]
Kevin Love
Yeah. Which people would. Yeah. If, you know Rich, he's. Yeah, he actually has a true emotional, you know, depth and curiosity to him. And I just saw him the other day. He's been amazing. Obviously has this great personality, great TV personality, but, like, getting to know Rich has been amazing. And then Channing is somebody who I truly love and respect and is one of my best friends and somebody I've been through truly a lot with. And he's been very outspoken about his own struggle. So it's really those two, too, that. That helped me, you know, find myself in that way. And I thought, I want to. I want to be like them, and I want to be a great team, man. I want to live a. Leave a lasting impression on people. And, you know, they're just guys that I looked at as. As, you know, leaders in that way that helped me find myself.
- [68:14]
Lewis Howes
I want to ask you about this. You've been on a lot of different teams with USA Basketball teams to different teams in the league. Is it something different about winning a championship with a group of guys that makes you connect with that team differently than just all other teams?
- [68:29]
Kevin Love
For sure. And it's really top of mind now because, like I said, it's been 10 years. So we have our group chat, which it's six of us on there, that we're so close. Channing and Richard are on there as well.
- [68:40]
Lewis Howes
Come on.
- [68:41]
Kevin Love
We talk every day. We were texting this morning, and because of. I mean, a perfect example is, like, J. R Smith is. His daughter was born very prematurely, and we went through that with him, and, you know, we're all very much feeling for him and scared that he was going to, you know, lose his daughter at the time. So we were there for him through that, and she's happy and healthy. Channing Fry lost both his mom and dad in the same month.
- [69:13]
Lewis Howes
Wow.
- [69:14]
Kevin Love
So we were all there for him. Tristan Thompson lost his mother. Same thing. My. I lost my father. Same thing. Like, we all, you know, showed up, you know, for each other in. In, you know, major ways. Richard, same thing. You know, LeBron has, you know, Been very open with us about a lot on that checks chain and of course we keep it very fun and some of this stuff isn't suitable for me.
- [69:36]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, you've got the memes.
- [69:37]
Kevin Love
Oh, yeah. But we, you know, we show up for each other and that is, you know, such a major part of the friendship and the brotherhood that was the Cavs. But those are relationships that you develop over the course of your career. But specific to that team having gone through all those battles, having lost in 2015, having lost in 17 and 18, but winning in 16 in the manner that we did and how down three one. Right together. Yeah, we were. Nobody had ever done it before. We did it on the road. That was incredible. Yeah, I mean, we had many guys throughout the course of that run, including those seven games against the warriors, step up in a major way, so we'll always be connected. And now we're planning a 10 year reunion trip, so we'll see what happens.
- [70:22]
Lewis Howes
Oh, that's cool, man. I remember I was coming back from a USA handball trip in Buenos Aires when you guys won and I was losing my mind because I'm from Ohio. So I was like, ah, it was the greatest thing. It was the greatest feeling. It was just like, you know, we'd always suffered so. Cleveland Browns, Cleveland Cavs. It was like, we've just suffered.
- [70:44]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [70:45]
Lewis Howes
So, yeah, you guys really brought it back and so I acknowledge you guys for that. That was a lot of fun. This has been powerful, man. I'm really grateful for you opening up and hopefully we'll have you back on in the future. Sometime maybe when the last season is done, we'll come talk about and see how what that time felt like, what that time frame. Because you mentioned the one thing you want to do is to really have an impact on the guys that you're surrounded with over these next however many seasons you play left. And I think that's a great way to, you know, bookend your career is about impact. You know, you've had all the success in winning and you'll probably still win and succeed. But I think from you going through the healing journey, you know, starting a little over almost a decade ago and finishing your career, whenever that is being about impact and service, I think is going to be even more healing for you right on this process, whether it's one season or five or whatever you choose to do. So I'm excited to watch, man. I'm excited to see your journey and if I can serve in any way, please let me know. I appreciate it, but very Excited about this. I have two final questions for you before I ask them. I want people to follow you on social media and check out your fund.
- [72:00]
Kevin Love
Yes.
- [72:00]
Lewis Howes
Or the foundation. Can you share more about this and what this is all about?
- [72:05]
Kevin Love
Yeah. Kevin LoveFund is KevinLoveFund.org of course you can find me on. Just look for the, the memes everywhere on social media. Yeah, just, yeah, look for the, look for the memes and you'll find me.
- [72:16]
Lewis Howes
But the Kevin Love Fund. Why did you want to start this and who's it about serving?
- [72:22]
Kevin Love
So I think it, it all started after the 2017 panic attack and we started the fund with, you know, just the hopes of impacting people as we could, both mentally, emotionally, spiritually, physically. And you know what kept finding myself asking. I kept asking myself and others kept asking me, like, what would you tell your 15 year old self? Or what, you know, what, what do you wish you could, you know, talk about like that five year old giving the hug, you know, what do you wish that you could tell that person? I thought, you know, what I didn't have was the emotional language in order to be able to express myself in a healthy way, maybe especially as a young man and a young boy. So I thought, you know, what if there's a way to implement education where it isn't just the spoken word or isn't just language that we can help kids create a very healthy way of being able to express themselves if they don't have that. So we had started a curriculum, Kevin Loven started a curriculum that is based around vulnerable vulnerability and social emotional learning. And we started it in the classroom with the teachers showing what that looked like. And then among their peers there was, you know, many different, up to a dozen to first when we first started different lesson programs and lesson plans that we started with kids on how to, you know, show what they were going through or tell their story or tell a story with somebody going through something at an arm's distance. So it was, you know, creative writing, it was poetry, it was photography, it was music, certain things like that. And we've worked with many different great people that have showed us how, you know, they have done it along the way. And we partner with people like Sony and we work with Steph Curry and the Goat. And animation has a really cool way of being able to show true emotions and sometimes it's hiding in plain sight. The spiders, Spider verse, we did a short with them and that's cool. And so they've been a, a great partner in that. But we Just continue to, you know, evolve the. The curriculum. And we have something coming up in May where it's based around friendship. So we, we talked about that as well. And really leaning into relationships, how they impact everyone, healthy relationships moving forward and. And finding your tribe and.
- [74:46]
Lewis Howes
Yeah, man.
- [74:47]
Kevin Love
You know, making sure that, you know, you find that in a healthy way to combat any sort of thing that you're feeling.
- [74:53]
Lewis Howes
Yeah. The thing you got coming out in May, May 1, is called, called the Friend Effect is what I'm reading here. Creating community and building positive relationships. And it's a new free mental health lesson that's available for educators, school counselors, and coaches nationwide.
- [75:07]
Kevin Love
Right.
- [75:08]
Lewis Howes
And so it's starting on May 1st, first day of mental Health Awareness Month, and it's available for immediate access@kevinlovefund.org so I recommend people going and checking that out. You know, I wish we had stuff growing up where we could just express ourselves in a safe environment without the other guys making fun of us. It really affects a young boy's psyche when they just. And it's not their. The other kid's fault. They didn't know how to receive, you know, this emotions or this communication or someone putting their arm around them. They didn't know how to respond either. So I don't blame other kids. Like, we're all kind of at fault for this, but we just never had a place to. To share a voice of, like, our concerns without being told, shut up, suck it up. Like, stop crying. Don't be a little baby. Whatever it is that we all experience, especially as young men, to not express emotion, and it's counterintuitive to being successful in sports.
- [76:07]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [76:08]
Lewis Howes
Showing weakness, showing emotion, showing them you're tired, whatever it is, like, you can't show any of that.
- [76:12]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [76:12]
Lewis Howes
Just be a man. You know, it's like, how do you do that at eight years old? It's. It's impossible.
- [76:17]
Kevin Love
It is impossible. And like, you know, the. It's funny because, like, on the other side of that, you're. You're paying for it now.
- [76:23]
Lewis Howes
Oh, yeah. You pay a big price.
- [76:25]
Kevin Love
You pay a big price of your life.
- [76:27]
Lewis Howes
All your relationships suffer after that.
- [76:28]
Kevin Love
Yes.
- [76:29]
Lewis Howes
Every relationship.
- [76:30]
Kevin Love
Like, what do we always say, right? Like, you got to put your own oxygen mask on first if you don't. If you don't have that intervention early enough. And that's why, you know, we work on this at the fun. It's like, you need some safe space, and why not have it be around your peers and not having to go down the Hallway, not having to do it at home. And, you know, the more people that share, the more of, you know, a tribe and a community you create. And we've seen it work at a very high level. So very, very proud of that. Very proud of the work we're doing. And. And yeah, the focus on friendship is great, man. Finding your tribe. Yeah.
- [77:06]
Lewis Howes
I want people to check it out. Kevinlovefund.org you can also go there and make a donation. School of greatness is making a donation as well. Because we believe in. We really donate to a lot of youth programs and kids education. And for me, emotional intelligence and healing is the most important thing we can all invest in. So I'm really glad you're doing this, man. Make sure to check out EvanLove on social media to see where he's going next in his career as well. We'll all see where that's happening hopefully soon. The two final questions I have for you. This one is called the three truths and it's a hypothetical scenario. So imagine you get to live as long as you want to live in this life and you get to create and accomplish everything. You get to end your career as an NBA player the way you want to and build a life the way you want to after that. But for whatever reason, on your last day, many years away, you. You have to take all of your work with you. So this conversation, people don't have access to anything you shared publicly. Anything you create, it has to go with you to the next place. No one has access to your content anymore. But on the last day, you get to leave behind three final truths, which would be your personal lessons of life. What do you think going into the future would be those three truths for you that you would leave behind?
- [78:26]
Kevin Love
Nothing. Hans is like the things we don't say.
- [78:28]
Lewis Howes
Yeah.
- [78:28]
Kevin Love
If we hold on to that, it's going to manifest or come out in some sort of sort of way. And also, more often than not, I feel like it's not going to be good. So, like it's not healthy. It just, you know, again. And that doesn't have to be verbalized. It's just like I was saying at the fun. There's. There's different ways in order in ways to do that. So it's like the things we don't say. Things one are done joy soul lies in the doing set out to do. And try to live your life relentlessly curious, without fear or prejudice. That's great.
- [78:59]
Lewis Howes
You had those a lot that was clear for you. Final question. What's your Definition of greatness.
- [79:06]
Kevin Love
I think, you know, I always use the term and it's not mine. It's just something that I've tried to adopt and gear my life towards it. I'm not perfect. I, especially after the season, I'm like, I'm just gonna eat what I want and drink wine and like I don't care for 10 days, whatever it is. But you know, discipline is deciding between what you want now and what you want most. So. And I think discipline is the path to greatness. Like I've had to, you know, change my diet, change how I take care of my body, been, be more disciplined in my relationships, sleep better. The list goes on and on. And all of that is the, the destiny is all through that, that, that discipline. I know that like Ryan Holiday, discipline is destiny, right? Like I, I, I truly believe that. But I think deciding between what you want now and what you want most, I think that is, that is the path. It might not be the definition, but that is certainly the path to where you want to go is all through discipline.
- [80:04]
Lewis Howes
Kevin. Love my man.
- [80:05]
Kevin Love
Appreciate you.
- [80:05]
Lewis Howes
Thank you man.
- [80:06]
Kevin Love
Yeah.
- [80:06]
Lewis Howes
Wow. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you of no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great. Royal Caribbean takes next level to another level. Go all in on the world's boldest ships. Filled with mind blowing entertainment, world class dining and the largest water parks at sea. And just when you think it couldn't get any better, you'll stop at our award winning private island. Perfect day. Coco Cay. It's an unreal adventure for everyone in the family book today@royalcaribbean.com Big time, best time, all the time. Come seek the Royal Caribbean ships registry Bahamas. What would you do if your online store converted 36% more shoppers? You could take 36% more vacation. Another pina colada. Yes, please. Open a new retail location with 36% more square feet.
- [81:44]
Kevin Love
Fantastic.
- [81:45]
Lewis Howes
Hire 36% more help. You're hired. And you're hired. Shopify Health, the world's best. Converting checkout up to 36% better than
- [81:52]
Kevin Love
other e commerce platforms. What you do with those extra sales
- [81:55]
Lewis Howes
is up to you.
- [81:56]
Kevin Love
Switch to Shopify today@shopify.com setup and get a $1 trial. Shopify.com setup.