Zedd Opens Up: Why He's A Better DJ Sober & How Music Became His Therapy

Summary

Episode Summary: Zedd Opens Up: Why He's A Better DJ Sober & How Music Became His Therapy

Podcast Information:

• Title: The School of Greatness
• Host: Lewis Howes
• Guest: Zedd (Anton Zaslavski)
• Release Date: December 30, 2024

In this compelling episode of The School of Greatness, host Lewis Howes engages in an in-depth conversation with Grammy Award-winning DJ and music producer Zedd. The discussion delves into Zedd's profound relationship with music, his journey towards sobriety, and his perspectives on authenticity in the modern music industry.

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1. The Healing Power of Music

Lewis Howes begins the conversation by highlighting the inadvertent healing impact of Zedd's music on his listeners. He shares:

"You bring healing energy to the world every time you perform and make your music." (05:22)

Zedd responds humbly, explaining that his primary intention has always been to create music for himself rather than to heal others:

"I'm genuinely still doing the same thing I did when I was four years old. I sit at the piano and just play." (06:14)

Despite not consciously aiming to heal, Zedd acknowledges the unexpected positive effects his music has had on people's lives, including helping them through relationships and personal challenges.

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2. Purpose and Authenticity in Music Creation

Host: Howes probes deeper into Zedd's motivations behind creating music despite his immense success.

Zedd articulates that his music serves as a medium to express emotions without words, likening it to a natural, almost subconscious process:

"I will sit behind a piano, and I will just play without a plan... It's like when you look at something and you zone off." (08:11)

He emphasizes creating music for the sake of creation, not catering to audience demands or commercial success.

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3. Navigating Trends vs. Staying True to Art

Howes brings up the influence of social media and platforms like TikTok, which often push artists to chase trends for visibility rather than focusing on genuine artistic expression:

"Everything has changed for a lot of musicians... chasing trends or platform acceptance versus how am I truly feeling?" (11:00)

Zedd concurs, sharing his frustrations with how algorithms now prioritize repetition over creativity, leading many talented artists to mimic trends rather than innovate:

"It's a really difficult pill to swallow because I don't want music to go in the direction of being just the background to a video." (14:45)

He laments that this shift hampers true artistic expression and creativity within the industry.

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4. The Impact of Social Media and Algorithms

The conversation shifts to the challenges posed by evolving social media algorithms. Zedd recounts experiences where engagement metrics don't align with actual audience turnout:

"They just don't represent the real world and how people feel." (24:51)

He explains how despite low online engagement, his tours remain successful, indicating a disconnect between digital metrics and real-world support.

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5. Spiritual Experiences in Performances

Howes explores the notion of spirituality in live performances, asking Zedd if he experiences such moments on stage.

Zedd shares awe-inspiring observations of audience interactions, describing how collective energy during performances fosters a sense of unity and spiritual connection:

"It's like almost when you look at ants and you see them do something super coordinated... humans in a room slowly start spreading energy." (40:49)

He finds profound meaning in witnessing the audience's synchronized movements and emotional responses, reinforcing his belief in music's unifying power.

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6. Managing Success, Burnout, and Mental Health

Addressing the pressures of fame and success, Howes inquires about Zedd's strategies for navigating self-doubt and burnout.

Zedd emphasizes the importance of surrounding oneself with a supportive and genuine team:

"Building a good team that's there for you and not there for you to make money, for them to make money... having trust in people is really important." (61:00)

He also highlights the necessity of checking in on peers struggling with mental health, advocating for open conversations and support without judgment.

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7. Sobriety and Enhanced Performance

A pivotal part of the discussion revolves around Zedd's journey to reducing alcohol consumption and its impact on his performances.

Zedd recounts realizing that sobriety could enhance his DJ skills without compromising his ability to connect with the audience:

"The moment I played a sober show, I realized... what I thought the alcohol was giving me, it wasn't the alcohol. It was the adrenaline, the excitement." (66:00)

He describes how maintaining sobriety has led to better health, improved performance quality, and a more authentic connection with his fans.

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8. Lessons and Definition of Greatness

As the episode concludes, Zedd imparts three core lessons he wishes to leave behind:

1. Good People, Good Times: Importance of sharing experiences with loved ones.
2. Human Potential: Belief that dedication can help achieve any goal.
3. Value of Sleep: Emphasizing the critical role of rest in overall well-being.

When defining greatness, Zedd echoes the host's sentiments, focusing on pursuing unique talents and positively impacting others:

"Surrounding yourself with people that you love... following your dreams and following your guide... you have your own unique talents and energy." (84:32)

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Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity Over Trends: Staying true to one's artistic vision is paramount, even in the face of industry pressures to conform.
• Health and Sobriety Enhance Creativity: Reducing alcohol intake can lead to better performance and personal well-being.
• The Unifying Power of Music: Live performances foster a unique sense of community and spiritual connection among attendees.
• Supportive Networks are Crucial: Building a trustworthy and caring team is essential for navigating the challenges of fame and maintaining mental health.

Notable Quotes:

• "I'm more of the person that people see as Anton. I never see myself as Zed." — Zedd (43:35)
• "If you remove bad influences and surround yourself with people that keep you in check, it’s a good thing no matter who you are." — Zedd (60:25)
• "When you bring the energy, you're also going to feel that as well." — Zedd (73:44)

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Conclusion:

This episode offers a deep dive into Zedd's philosophy on music, authenticity, and personal growth. Listeners gain valuable insights into balancing success with personal well-being, the significance of genuine connections, and the enduring power of creating art for oneself. Zedd's candid reflections serve as an inspiring testament to pursuing greatness while maintaining integrity and health.

For more episodes that inspire and empower, subscribe to The School of Greatness on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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This summary is based on the transcript provided and captures the essence of the conversation between Lewis Howes and Zedd on December 30, 2024.

Transcript

[A]

My friend, thank you so much for being here. Back on the school of greatness. I am blessed and grateful every single day that I wake up. I get to wake up in a beautiful city. I get to wake up in a. In a dream home. I get to wake up with a beautiful woman next to me that brings me peace and love and joy every single day. And I just feel blessed. I feel so grateful. And even though there can be challenges, even though there might be stresses at time, and I know there's adversities that I get to face over and over in my life in different areas, I try to focus on the blessings and the gratitude as often as I can because I can easily go into frustration or lack or not enoughness. And I just want to remind you today of how grateful I am for you for being here and how blessed your life truly is.

[B]

Even if you're going through something challenging.

[A]

Right now, you have a beautiful opportunity to transform that challenge into a lesson, into a new way of being, into learning something that you didn't know before and being wiser than before. So I hope you are feeling good today, but if you're not, know that there's an opportunity for you to transform. And I'm excited for you on this journey of transformation together. We've got a big episode today with Zed. His name's Anton. He is one of the biggest music producers in the world. Massive hits, billions of streams with his songs, some of the biggest songs of the last decade. And I just had a great conversation with him, and I cannot wait for you to meet this individual. He has a very unique lifestyle. He's, you know, works all night, you know, multiple nights a week and sleeps during the day. He is constantly working with the biggest artists in the world. He's an artist. He's a musician, a producer. He's extremely talented. But getting to connect with him on a human level and learn about his heart. We talk about how you can use your art, use your music, use your service to heal others. And it was interesting to hear his response when I talked about how he is bringing healing energy to the world every time he performs and makes his music. It was really fascinating to hear what Anton said about that. We talked about so many different things about how to stay relevant, how he sees other people in the industry trying to chase relevancy and what they do that might be hurting their art. There's so many cool things in this episode. I really hope you enjoy this. Please share it with a friend that you think would be inspired by this episode. As well. You can copy and paste the link if you're on Apple or Spotify, just copy and paste the link to this episode, text it to a friend or two, and if this is your first time here, please click the Follow button on Spotify or Apple and leave us a review and share what your biggest takeaway was from this episode. And without further ado, let me introduce you to the one the only Zed experiences make life more meaningful and with Mastercards, priceless.com, you can immerse yourself in unforgettable experiences in dining, sports, art, entertainment.

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[A]

Welcome back everyone to the School of Greatness. I'm very excited about our guests. We have the inspiring, Grammy Award winning incredible individual Zed in the house. My man. Good to see you.

[C]

Good to see you. Thanks for having me.

[A]

You go by Zed, but your name's Anton. So we'll flip back and forth today. But a lot of people have listened to your music for the last decade plus and it's been their theme song. For a lot of people. Your music has been their life. They play it on repeat, they dance to it, they get into relationships to it, they go through breakups with your music. It's like help people throughout their entire lives for the last decade plus. And you have I was Telling you off camera that you, even though you're not aware of it, you bring healing.

[B]

Light to the world.

[A]

And you were like, huh? I don't really think about it that way. But your music, when people are dancing, they're at one of the highest frequencies of energy they can be in. So when you have anxiety, stress, depression, thoughts of suicide or whatever it might be that are holding you back, and you move your body and you dance to something that feels electric, that feels spiritual, you release all of the stress, the pain, the worry that you have in your life. Now if you're doing it on drugs and, you know, medicating yourself, maybe you're diminishing a little bit of, like, that spiritual high. But the energy you bring to people heals. And so I want to acknowledge you first for being a creative source of healing energy for. And I know you said that's not the way you think about it because you don't make art for others. What did you say to me off camera?

[C]

Yeah, it really feels really awesome to hear that, to hear you say that, because it's not really how I think about my own music and my art and my craft. I'm not a doctor. I'm not here to heal others or to help others. I'm genuinely still doing the same thing I did when I was four years old. I sit piano. Piano, and I just play. And the difference is that now I record and release. And back then I recorded and played it for my parents. Now to hear that my music has some sort of healing aspect to people, or like you said, people find each other, meet each other, get married, maybe have their, you know, dance or whatever to. My music is really awesome because I never think about it this way. I've also never thought about myself as somebody who's famous, and I don't think I ever will. And it sometimes feels really nice to hear that and to hear people tell me their personal stories, which, you know, happens all the time, where I meet somebody and they will just tell me, you know, what my music means to them. It feels really awesome. It feels healing to me to hear that, because it's never been my intention to make something, to achieve something or anything other than kind of make music as a. As therapy for myself. I set myself goals, sometimes really hard to reach ones, especially with this album that I just released, Tell Us. And my goal is just to fulfill whatever, you know, I want to achieve with this project. Then to hear that it's really healing to people or that they were able to dance or meet somebody Is really awesome. It's. It's a bonus. It's definitely not why I do it.

[A]

So what would you say is the purpose of you creating music today? Because you've been so successful? You've won a Grammy, you're up for another Grammy. You've won every other award under the sun. You've got billions of streams. Why keep making music today? What's the purpose?

[C]

The purpose for me to make music is just like the purpose of any hobby that anybody has. I've made music since I was a little kid, and it's been my way of. Of communicating emotion. So, you know, I'm not the one singing the words, so I'm not the one expressing something in words. The way I express my feelings is. Is through notes and chords and melodies and. And song structures and. And sound design. So it's a little bit of a more subtle way to express feelings, But a lot of the times, it just comes out of natural. I will sit behind a piano, and I will just play without a plan. There's no, I'm gonna write a song like this, or I'm gonna write a song that does that. It's just mindless. You shot. You know when you look at something and you zone off and you kind of see everything blurry? That's how my brain functions when I write music. I don't think at all. My hands just move themselves. And all of a sudden you kind of, like, wake up from having played something really awesome. Now, you don't know what you played necessarily, because your fingers just move along. It's kind of like. Think about it mathematically. It's kind of like motions, movements, and your fingers move, and all of a sudden you're like, whoa, that was cool. And then you kind of go back and try to find what you just played, because you don't really know what you just played because you're not recording.

[A]

It at this time. You're not, like, recording sound.

[C]

Sometimes I do hit record, and I just zone out and play. And then it's easy to go back. But most of the times if I'm in my room and I have a piano in my room, I kind of zone out and just play. And then you kind of wake up from having played something that catches your attention. So something that was good enough or different enough to catch it to catch your attention. Then you go back and try to figure out, what was this that I just played? And then if it's interesting, I will record it and I'll send it to my manager, and I Just he stores everything.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Because one day I might want to go back and revisit it. And I just send him little video clips of me playing the piano. So that's how most songs start. And then they can go into very many different directions. They could become just a song on my album. Like, a lot of the songs on my album currently have started in 21. Started in 2015.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And it took nearly a decade to finish. One could become something for a TV show. One could become a single. One could become a song for somebody else. Like we briefly spoke. I made a song with Max Martin or a couple. They started that way. They just started as I'll do something. And then I feel like this doesn't fit the direction I'm going. Max, do you like songs?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Maybe somebody else could use it. But the purpose of creating music is just to create for the sake of creating.

[A]

It's so interesting you say that because I had Rick Rubin on. I don't know if you know producer Rick Rubin, and that's what he talked about a lot, is like, don't create your music or your art for an audience. Creating it for yourself is the. The best way that you can put art out. And in a world where, you know, I'm not a musician or an artist in that. That form, I feel like I created my own art in a different way, but I'm not a traditional artist. But in the last five years, it feels like everything has changed for a lot of musicians, let's say, because of either TikTok or social media, where they feel like you have to chase a trend and make it for a platform to take off instead of, what am I truly feeling? What is. What is my life about right now? What do I want to express myself through the tonality, the expression, the musicality, the harmonies, the sound design. And it seems like most people are chasing trends or platform acceptance versus how am I truly feeling? And I'm making this for me, and it sounds like that's what you've done over the last nine years, is stay true to what is my expression. Whether anyone listens to this or not. But how do you go about thinking I need it to do somewhat well so that I make some money from this, or it's commercially acceptable because I'm a commercial artist versus I'm making art for me, and it doesn't matter if anyone listens to it.

[C]

It's a really difficult question to answer because I understand everybody's perspectives. I think it's easy for me to say that I Make music for myself because I've achieved most things that I wanted to achieve.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And I get the benefit of having a dedicated fan base that is open enough to listen to something new or different. And a good example is my album Telos, because, like I mentioned to you, I make music for myself. So the features might be bizarre for people who know me from the middle. Some of the artists are dead, Some of them are unknown. Like, most people will not have heard of the Olam, which is an Irish whistle pipe band that I love and I was obsessed with throughout the Pandemic. Honestly, my most listened to artists over the last two years and they make very different music, but they inspired me and they kind of pulled me through the Pandemic and really kind of showed me, wow, music can be so much deeper than I thought it was at the time. And the Pandemic was kind of a dark time, and I was not inspired to make music whatsoever. And then I heard the Olam and it kind of sparked all these things. So it was important for me to make a song with the Olam because they kind of pulled me through a dark time. So I didn't go to the artists that are the biggest that would give me the most exposure. I went to the artists that mean something to me personally.

[A]

That gave you the most heart.

[C]

They gave me the most heart. Or like, I've always wanted to make a song with Muse, for example, a band that I grew up with. My very first concert with my band when I was younger was a cover of Muse. That was the very first song we performed on stage. So what was the song? Plugin Baby.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

So for me to make a song with Muse is kind of like a full circle moment of being able to work with the artist that brought me here. Like, I wouldn't be sitting in that studio writing that song if it wasn't for Muse.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

So that whole album for me is. It's easy to make music for yourself when. And I'm speaking from my point of view, when you've had success in the past. When I started making music, the algorithm didn't exist the way it does today. So when somebody. And I know a lot of amazing musicians that spend their day recording TikToks, really. And personally, it feels depressing to see because I feel like they're so much better than chasing an algorithm. And I know that because they're talented musicians, but I also understand that that's what you need to do in order to make money, to be able to.

[A]

Stay relevant or something or.

[C]

Or Become relevant even. You know, it's a really difficult. We're living in a really difficult social media controlled world where art becomes the backseat to something else interesting. And to me, that's really a difficult pill to swallow because I don't want music to more and more go to the direction of it is the background to a video. But how much attention does the average listener even have to listen to a whole album?

[A]

Like very, very few people can do that.

[C]

Right. Most people don't even know the full song of the clip that they know inside out.

[A]

It's like 10 seconds.

[C]

That's pretty sad. And I know a lot of songs from clips and I've never heard the whole song and I don't even know who the artist is. It's just I know the clip that I've seen, right. So I kind of know the video.

[A]

You know, the sound of the 10 seconds or whatever.

[C]

And then there's something behind that.

[A]

But you don't know the beginning, the beginning, the middle, the end. That could be the beginning, that could be the end, that could be the middle.

[C]

I wouldn't even know. And the reason is that platforms, you know, I also understand the platforms. They're there to make money and make the shareholders happy, but it is inherently doing something to the world of music that I don't like. It makes. It forces artists to really spend their day creating TikToks and not spend their day trying to be creative and make music, because that's what's going to make their music, that's what's going to get their music heard. So if the artist can't afford living from just making the art, can you really blame them for filming TikToks?

[A]

Right. It's tricky.

[C]

It's a really tricky situation and I really don't like that we live in this world and I'm really, really lucky that I can make art for the sake of art, because I've built my platform at a time when the algorithms didn't really fully control it yet. A lot more things were editorial. A lot more things were, you know, you follow a person so you see what they post. And I feel like what is even the purpose of following anybody that's interesting or subscribing? Because you see what the algorithm shows you anyway.

[A]

Exactly.

[C]

It's a tricky thing. So I definitely understand artists who feel the need to sort of. Yeah. I don't know the right words to say it, but that feel the need to play the game.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To get exposure, but tricky balance.

[A]

I mean, have you ever Felt like because you've been on the scene for like almost 15 years where you've kind of taken, you know, you blew up around 15 years ago, roughly. You're in the early 20s, you know, and you had just a rocket to success with your music and relevancy.

[C]

Right.

[A]

As an artist, like, you became very relevant in your early 20s. Did you ever feel like, oh, I'm not as relevant and I need to be playing the game of social media or doing these specific collabs that maybe I don't really care about, but that's a big upcoming artist, so I need to be on the train of the collab game. Have you ever thought about that or is that really.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I have. I'll be honest. I. I remember sort of seeing your go to social media numbers. Right. For the listener or viewer who like doesn't know how social media was 10 years ago, let's just say a post, anything you post gets 100,000 likes. For an example on XYZ platform, I remember specifically it was like the same ish number. If it's a new song, it's a little bit more. If it's just a random photo, it's a little less. And all of a sudden it dipped by half just the next day. And I was so confused. I was like, did I say something wrong? Is that song not interesting? And all of a sudden all your numbers go down. But that also translates to ticket sales because less people see you posted and they are. When they see you played a show in their city, they're like, why didn't you? Like, I didn't even know you were playing a show here. But I'm sitting there like, but I just posted the same thing.

[A]

Interesting.

[C]

And I saw the numbers just kind of trickling down. Now you can always say, well, maybe you're just less relevant than you were before. But it's always weird when that happens like overnight. And to me, that's usually a sign that there's some change in an algorithm and that it prefers something else. And I think it's way more extreme now than it was 10 years ago. I mean, those changes, the sort of reach that you had back then was astronomically higher than the one you have today according to the followers you have. So if you have 10 million followers, I remember times when like, I don't know, even 10% of your followers would see a post. I feel like in today's world, that's probably amazing.

[A]

Yeah, anomaly now it's like 1%.

[C]

It's mostly like other people that See your posts, not your followers. It's all so algorithmic. And the issue with things being algorithmic in my mind is that what's being rewarded is repetition. Because something gets, goes viral. Everybody wants to go viral. So everybody will do the same thing that went viral and it kind of almost wants you to copy and everybody will do the same thing. So, you know, a lot of people complain about AI kind of, you know, doing bad to the world. And I'm not here to argue one way or another, but we're kind of doing the same thing by just forcing ourselves to do the same trend over and over. And somebody does something creative, everybody copies it. That's such a non creative way of art in general. And you know, your art doesn't have to be music. Your art could be just creating content. Yes. Being funny. But if you have to kind of play that game at some point, everybody kind of has to be like, okay, we can't do this, otherwise we're all going to suffer from that. Yeah, it's a really difficult. I don't know how that affects you and what you do or if it does at all.

[A]

A hundred percent. If you're seeing other. If I'm seeing other people in my industry, interview someone maybe or talk about a certain topic that's taking off, I feel like, oh, do I need to do the same thing or do I need to interview the same person and ask them similar things? But is that original or am I just kind of going with the trend? So I'm always trying to. It's a both. And I'm like, okay, that is an interesting person. Let me have them on. Even though maybe they've been everywhere already, but what's the new thing I can gain from them? So I try to really say what is a perspective that they haven't shared? One of the questions I asked you before we started rolling was what's something that people don't ask you they wish they asked you. What's on your heart and mind lately that you haven't talked about? I'm trying to get just a little bit of information to say what's really interesting you besides just saying the same things every time about. Tell me about this song.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Tell me about this person you work.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like you said these things a million times, probably. Yeah.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And so my goal is to connect to you emotionally and as a human being. To see what speaks to your heart.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because I truly. Yeah, you're welcome. And I truly believe whether people who are watching me, who have no clue who you Are. That's what they want. And people who are your fans or followers, that's what they want as well. They've heard you maybe say all these other things with the music shows.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, tell me how you produce this song. Okay, cool.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And.

[A]

But what's interesting to me is like, you had so much success at a early age. I know the weight that that carries for someone in their early 20s to have fame, money, and attention. And. And you just said when something is consistent, say 100,000 likes every post or whatever, and then it goes in half, you start to have this level of doubt or insecurity that you said. Did I say something wrong? Did I do something wrong? Do they not like me anymore? Am I less relevant? Is there a younger person coming up who's more talented than me? What are they doing that I'm not doing? You start to question. So my question for you would be then, how did you learn to navigate the self doubt while being on the top in the industry? But maybe things going in half or less, people showing up to shows for a season of time in your career, how did you navigate the emotional doubt?

[C]

Yeah. And to answer this question, I kind of didn't really finish where I was going with this.

[A]

Sure, go ahead.

[C]

But essentially, you see numbers go down, you start doubting yourself, you think you maybe did something wrong or everything. You said there might be somebody who's more relevant. So a fun way to kind of close that question is that I just played a tour, I just came off tour, and we're on the. You can call it the lowest point of engagement possible right now. You are right now.

[A]

Really.

[C]

I think every day I wake up, it will always be the lowest point of engagement because except for the things that go viral, it's just not the natural way. Social media. It's not the way social media works anymore.

[A]

The platforms have changed.

[C]

Yeah, the platforms have changed. So it's kind of normal. The irony is that we had the most successful tour we've ever played, really, with the most tickets sold, and we underbooked venues because we didn't.

[A]

That's great.

[C]

Thank you. No, it really is. And it kind of reminded me that all those numbers, they just don't represent the real world and they don't represent how people feel. It's a lot of echo chambers. And you start doubting yourself and you kind of have to let go of what those numbers say because they don't really represent life. So we take those numbers and kind of do our best to gauge how much interest there is in each city. And then we realize there's a lot more interest and people aren't liking and people aren't commenting. But they're there, they're showing up, they're showing up. And they might even find their own ways to know that you're playing a tour. So that was kind of a moment for me recently or the most recent when I was like, oh, those social media numbers don't really represent life.

[A]

These days.

[B]

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[A]

Distributor so you had your biggest tour ever.

[C]

Ever. And by the engagement I was like, I sometimes ask myself, how do people find out that I play shows if you don't see it? I don't know. I really don't. But there's probably other ways. And I remember thinking this way back.

[A]

Word of mouth. People just talking about word of mouth.

[C]

And like people follow their venues or people follow their own channels. And this is a really interesting thing about social media or the Internet in general. I feel like the greatest thing about the Internet compared to not having the Internet was that we felt internationally connected. You can have friends anywhere in the world, right? If you can't afford to travel, you can still be connected to anybody, anywhere. Yet I feel like we've never been more separated. And I don't mean this just like, because there's distancing. But I feel like our Internet is different per person. Your Internet, your view of the world is so different from mine because everybody gets shown something else. And I think a moment I realized this was his previous election because I have my feed and I've noticed that everything I see in my Twitter feed has nothing to do with any of my interests.

[A]

That's so funny. Why do they push another agenda that you don't care about?

[C]

And I feel like at some point Twitter did ask about your interests to better cater it to you, but yet everything I see is like the opposite of what I want to see. So my view of the world and who's going to become president was one way and somebody on my team was like, no, it's the exact opposite way. But I'm like, are we seeing the same things? And I think the answer is, no, we're not. Everybody sees their own things. So while we're so connected and we use the same platforms. We all live in our own little microcosm of what we see, of what the platform can make the most ad revenue off. We don't really see the same world. That's why there's so much division too, is because everybody sees their own version of reality. And how often do you see like just like it's so obvious, like you, you just believe all the lies and everybody says that about each other. It's like, well, maybe it's not that easy. Maybe it's pretty damn hard to figure out what's real and what's not because we all see different things 100%.

[A]

One of the things that I appreciate about my father, who's no longer here, when I was a kid growing up, he would always turn the commercials off when we were watching sports or TV together. He would turn the commercials off because he didn't want us to be targeted with messaging that he didn't believe our brains needed as like seven year old kids. Specifically around medications, drugs. He didn't want us to be programmed. Like so many people are sick in the world and you're gonna get sick too, so you need this medication. He didn't want us to think that way. And so still today I don't watch.

[C]

Commercials and this is an American TV thing.

[A]

It was my dad, you know, so my dad, I don't know many people that did this because my dad just didn't like the American commercials.

[C]

Because there's a lot of medication commercials.

[A]

Probably, I don't know, I don't know what the stats are, but I would say at least a third of commercials, really, 100%, at least.

[C]

I've never watched American television, so I'm very unaware that's.

[A]

I mean, turn off the commercials if you do, because at least a third are either food, like fast food, which is making you need the medication. You eat it all the time, right? You're eating it all the time. Have fast food once in a while, sure. But if it's everyday fast food, it's gonna make you sick and then you need the medication to take care of the sickness. That's their solution. And so we just wouldn't watch it. And I curate my social media like that. I only have programming of positive content, positive messages, positive people that I respect that are like saying something as a reminder to positively influence me.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

Otherwise I will not watch it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Like if it's anything about. Unless there's one random thing here and there, but it's Like I program my feeds.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

Or I delete something that I don't like or I'll remove it. Or I'll just whatever, swipe away or whatever it is.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And I think we need to take power back and responsibility back on what we're consuming.

[C]

That's true.

[A]

And how we're programming ourselves or allowing platforms to program us and create some type of barriers and boundaries around it. Turn it off, unfollow, whatever it is. Even if they feed you other things you don't want, you can, you can probably say remove this type of content over and over and hopefully they won't share it.

[C]

Right. But it's not even that easy though. I love, I love what you're doing. I love the suggestion a lot. I love being fed more positive and like inspiring content instead of dividing and sad and brutal content. With of course, the exception that we all want to know what's going on in the world.

[A]

Be informed but not entertained.

[C]

Right. Interesting.

[A]

Because when give me a newsletter that's telling me 5,000 people died today in this country. Cool. I'm sad that this happened and that's unfortunate. And I'm aware now. Don't show me the visuals. Yeah, yeah. Because then I'm being entertained and then in my whole body and my nervous system feels like this is happening everywhere all the time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's like it's a heightened emotion. If you see that every second. Or killing, anger, screaming. You're just. You're in fight or flight. Constantly. Educate me, inform me through the written word, but don't show me visually.

[C]

Right. Wow.

[A]

All the time. I'm sure you want to see. You're gonna see moments here and there. But it's like minimize that.

[C]

The issue is that the way platforms make their money is by seconds spent on x platform. Right.

[A]

100.

[C]

So it's this looper in like, how are we going to. As a society, how are we going to break out of a loop where the wrong things are being rewarded and then the next person benefits of your wrong. It's basically a circle of wrong. I mean, I don't have a solution. Maybe we could use AI to help.

[A]

Us figure this out.

[C]

But it does feel like a strange loop we're finding ourselves in because. And you know, part of the AI conversation. I mean, AI is scary, right? It is.

[A]

Because for you, as an artist and a musician, what is the benefit of AI versus the scary part of AI for you?

[C]

The benefit of AI is that there's a lot of tasks that go into Producing a song that are incredibly time intensive. And you sit there and go through 400 snare drums until you find the one that you like.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And you could just say, find me four snare drums, like X. And you don't have to spend the time. There's a lot of these tasks that you have to do. Clean up, remove all the silence. I mean, you name it, right? There's a lot of things that AI can be super helpful with, and it's.

[A]

Been beneficial for you. Already on your.

[C]

I think I just hate calling it AI, but we've used AI software tools. Yeah, right. It's always been there. Like, I've always used AI for example, an equalizer that shows me the frequencies that I need to cut is essentially AI. Sure. You can name it that or not. So I've used AI my whole career. And the more AI tools there are. As an example, you give me a random sound, a cowbell, your mug, Right. And I want to be able to synthesize that sound. I would have to have extensive knowledge of how to create that sound digitally from nothing. There's now software that lets you throw in any sound you want. It will resynthesize it to the point where you can change and alter anything about it. That's something that was completely impossible my entire life. And now I can actually play and not sample it. I'm saying, like, resynthesize it. There's a little bit of a nerd talk, but essentially it's really amazing. It lets us be so creative with something. That's a perfect example of AI being super helpful to me. One way AI is scary is that anybody can now write make me a song that sounds like Zed but make it better.

[A]

Oh, no.

[C]

And it will do it. That's crazy, right? So that's, of course, scary. And every single time somebody clicks generate, it gets better because it learns off itself.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

But it's also. It's fascinating. I mean, I have no idea how this will shape things. I also think that the human element and anything in civilization is something that will never want to get lost.

[A]

Yeah. It also goes back to, like, you built a brand, right? Zed. People think of a feeling and an emotion when they see or hear Zed. They know there's going to be, for most people, I think, a spiritual. Whether they're thinking consciously or not, there's a spiritual experience inside of them. When they see Zed or they hear the sound, they're like. They remember the feeling. I get chills thinking, but they remember the feeling the first time they hear it or that night in Vegas or when you came to their city and they had their girlfriend and their boyfriend and they had this incredible emotional, euphoric experience for two hours, and they maybe never felt that ever in their life again. And so when you build a brand, Zed, with the feeling of awe, it's hard to create something more powerful than the combination of a brand and the feeling together than just chatgpt saying, make me a better song than zed.

[C]

Right? Because there's probably. There's definitely better songs than the ones I make. But what you started our conversation with is that a lot of people have met their partners or danced or relieved stress or, you know, got over something during a show of mine or while a song of mine was playing. That connection to a human, I think, is so much stronger than knowing that a randomly generated song has, you know, is technically better, sounds better, is mixed cleaner, which I'm sure all of these things are true. And throughout my whole career, with the exception of one song that was out of my hands, I have mixed every single song I've ever released.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And I'm not the best mixer, you know, I have a lot of things to do. I write music. I produce music. I mix music. I perform a lot of shows. I have a Vegas residency. I program my own lighting with my team, of course. But I do a lot of things I don't spend all day mixing. So there's mixing engineers who are way better than I am and ever will be. But my choices, every single choice throughout the mix process of my songs has personality. It's because I like things this way. It's because I like snare to be too loud if I feel like it.

[A]

Right, right, right.

[C]

There's this Dream brothers song on my album where the clap is unbelievably wide. Again, a little bit of nerd talk, but it's essentially very strange. And I like the idea of having something so bizarre and weird. And if you gave that to a mixing engineer, he would immediately pan it to the center, because that's not normal. But I like it. It has character and has this moment of, like, I was in the car listening to it, and it felt like the claps were coming from, like, the side of the doors. And I was like, that's cool. That's a unique experience. I've never felt that. I've never heard it. I like it. It's different. So I think the connection to a human and a human making a decision is much more powerful than the Connection to something that's technically on paper, better by whichever metric you want to go by. So is handmade furniture obsolete because we have Ikea? No. People still care for an Etsy as well in a life, I hope. I love Etsy because there's people creating things by hand and I think there's a lot of appreciation for humans doing amazing things.

[A]

Yeah, I don't think it'll ever fully replace it because I think you need a story and personality behind the art. Maybe there'll be some one offs or some anomaly of like, oh, AI generated or whatever and people really appreciate it because it's a unique one off thing. But I think when you have a personality and you're able to build a brand around emotion and something that people love, it's hard to beat that.

[C]

I think you're right and I think this will hopefully never get old. And people still want to come to shows even though they can put VR solutions on and technically experience it anywhere, anytime they still want to be at a show. And I've actually witnessed this on my last tour while one of my openers was playing and I loved watching this. So my openers sometimes have to play pretty early because we only have so many hours we're allowed to make sound. So people are still trickling in and it's really fun.

[A]

Not you opening, but someone else coming to open the show.

[C]

Yeah, before I go on. And it is something that I've noticed that I really loved seeing. It was an empty hall. I think it was about 7,000 people in total. And people slowly trickle in and you can tell nobody knows each other. And then slowly one person likes the song, turns to the left, you can tell they don't know each other. And I was kind of watching from side stage and two songs later there's a group of like 10 people that are clearly like now jumping together. And like when one person jumps, everybody jumps. And you see these little like circles built throughout a venue and slowly but surely they all become one. It's like almost when you look at ants and you see them do something super coordinated, like how the hell do you guys know how to do this? That's how it feels when humans in a room slowly start spreading. Let's just call energy, for lack of a better word. And eventually I feel like a good show is when you captured all of the audience.

[A]

Oh man, that's got to be like a spiritual experience for you. It is. You see the whole audience move in unison or sing in unison or wave.

[C]

Or dance and they don't know each other, but they are all on the same wavelength. And slowly, throughout the course of a night, you can see how it spreads and how the circles become bigger. It's pretty amazing. I mean, humans are amazing. You know, we're incredible. We're one of a kind.

[A]

I had. I had the singer Hozier on. I don't know if you know.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

He. He's extremely talented, great music. And I asked him, like, if he ever has any. I asked him what's his most spiritual experience he's had on stage, because he's got the song, like, take Me to Church and all these different things. And I go, it's a spiritual experience for the audience, but also for him. And he gave me a really honest answer. He was kind of like, you know, I've kind of. I do it so often now. Like, I'm on the road all the time. I'm always performing. And it's like, I don't necessarily take it for granted, but it's like, it's hard to feel that feeling for him is kind of what he was saying. He's like, I recently did in Mexico City. The audience was incredible, and it was just, like, so loud, and everyone was singing my songs, and it was like, that kind of felt spiritual. But you kind of go through the motions sometimes, and you just forget about it. Do you feel like every show, sometimes you go through the motions, or do you have a spiritual experience certain nights? And when you do, is there something that you're creating energetically inside of you? Are you in a good zone with your habits and rituals and routine? Are you in a good state emotionally when that happens? Like, does that happen and what are you creating to make that happen?

[C]

I still feel surprised, slash, really moved by an audience singing along to my music, even though I know they will. I still go on stage, and I'm still unsure if people know the songs. And that's why I said, I never see myself as a celebrity. I never see myself as somebody whose music is widely known. Maybe because I've made music for so much longer, since I was a kid, without anyone knowing anything. I do that. I'm more used to it. I'm not sure. But I still. When I go on stage, I mean, a festival is probably the best example because festivals have multiple stages. There's lots of amazing artists playing at the same time. I still am always wondering whether somebody's going to shop at my stage.

[A]

Come on.

[C]

Yeah. Every time.

[A]

But you're freaking Zed, man.

[C]

I don't know. I mean, I still use the streams.

[A]

You get like massive hits grab me.

[C]

I know, but it's not really internalized in that way. I still see myself as Anton. And, you know, I meet my friends in video games just, like, randomly and, like, I don't see myself as the person that people see myself as.

[A]

Really?

[C]

No. And I don't think I ever will at this point.

[A]

I think that's actually beautiful.

[C]

Maybe it's a good thing, you know.

[A]

I think it's actually a really good thing. It probably makes you a healthy human being.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And you don't believe all the hype of yourself. I think that's. I think it's the worst thing that people can do is, like, believe their own hype. I think you can appreciate what you've created and how hard you've worked. And like, man, you've dedicated your life to your craft and you can not diminish that. You can appreciate and have self respect and self worth and know your value, but not believe the crazy hype of someone who's just like, oh, my God, you're incredible. You know?

[C]

Yeah, that happens a lot. I mean, I don't experience that very much again because I don't see myself this way. But I do see other people go through that, and I don't love seeing that. Maybe that's why I shy away from it too. I think the whole nature of, like, extreme fandoms and, like, celebrity and stuff. Yeah, yeah. People basically excusing any behavior of a person because they love that person. It's like anything that person does is amazing. I just don't think that's healthy to any industry, to any CEO, to any artist, to any actor, whatever that may be. I think always being sort of double checking, making sure you're not doing anything stupid is a good thing. I don't think having an army behind you supporting you through any move you do is a good thing. I don't think it's a good influence on you.

[A]

Is that a European kind of way you were raised? Because it seems like it might be. Or is that.

[C]

It's definitely possible. I mean, I'm very much a son of. Of parents that have raised me one way, and I'm that way still. I'm really thankful for how my parents raised me.

[A]

How did they raise you?

[C]

It may shock you, but they let me do anything I want.

[A]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. Like, if I didn't want to go to school, I would tell my mom, mom, I'm not going to go to school tomorrow. Once because I didn't study for my exam. And if I fail this exam, it's going to be bad for me. Okay, I'll call in and say you're sick or hey mom, I'm wasted with my friends. We're going to go out tonight. I'm not going to make it to school tomorrow. Are you sure? Okay. I'll call and say whenever. But I wouldn't really abuse it as much as you think I would. Having that power, I learned to. To appreciate it. And I used it. I don't want to sound bad saying this, but I used it strategically to get through school because I sucked at school.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I was not good. I was good at music and I would help my whole class, but I was not good at school. It's just not how my brain is wired. And maybe I'm using that as an excuse, but I've always been very pushed into creativity. Not by my parents, but like I always wanted to do something creative and whether that's, you know, I've always loved video games, I've always loved music, any sort of art. I just wasn't good with numbers. I loved ethics and you know, psychology and that kind of stuff. But I really didn't like most of school. But I didn't abuse it. I would, you know, strategically occasionally call in sick. But I learned to juggle power. Right. Because as a kid, deciding when you want to go to school or not is the most powerful thing you can have. As a kid, it's not really money you have to go to school, but you don't. That's pretty powerful as a kid. So I think it kind of maybe taught me to be careful with the power that I'm given and respected. Um, but, but yeah, to go back to the question you asked originally is like I still am so overwhelmed by people singing along to my music. Especially going from city to city or country to country or continent to continent. And it's pretty fascinating because every almost state is a different variation of human beings really. And you can feel it and see it. And I sometimes claimed I could hear a clip of an audience and I could tell you which country we're in by the pitch of them singing.

[A]

No way.

[C]

Philippines, Best singing crowd in the world. Like they're all amazing. Japan is like a close second. You know when you hear sing alongs you're like, well, it's gonna be either there or there. You know, Europe is maybe more a little bit of the soccer chan, like off pitch, but sounds bigger, louder. So each country has things that it has to do with weather the weather affects their mood and attitude. The language. The language affects how direct or distant or, you know, how you express yourself. Like, German is very distant, in my opinion. English. I remember when I came to America and I met Jimmy Iovine, who. Who signed me initially at the beginning of my career. And I wanted to say you. I want to say something to you, and I didn't. I realized there's no other way to say you in the English language than. Than you. While in French or Russian or German, there's multiple yous. There's a formal and an informal you. So you would always use the, you know, formal you because you show respect to the person. But I was sitting in front of Jimmy Iovine, this, like, legend who's signing me, and I was, like, saying you. That felt so weird to me. So every country has something that makes them some sort of ball of energy, and you perform there, and it just. This energy feels different everywhere you go. But anytime I hear people sing along or jump, it's it. It's not something that gets old to me, and I'm. I'm used to it, but it still doesn't make it any less amazing.

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[A]

What's the most spiritual experience you've had at a live show you've performed at?

[C]

Oh, man, there's going to be a bad answer because I'm. I'm unprepared for this. But there's been so many moments in my life on stage. Like, I remember playing Madison Square Garden. That was a really special moment because it was my first arena tour and I was on stage and I don't know Madison Square Garden well. I know it from hearing and seeing it. But up top in the center of the room, they have the ring and it says Madison Square Garden. I was just on stage and I kind of looked up and I saw that Madison Square Garden. I was like, wow, this is crazy. I'm actually here on stage and, like, playing in front of all these people. So that was a amazing moment. Playing Red Rocks. Have you heard of In Denver?

[A]

I've never been there, but I've always wanted to go.

[C]

I remember I. I was, or still am, a huge fan of Incubus, and they had a dvd. I don't know if it was like a bootleg. I got somewhere if it's a real DVD or VHS or whatever it was, but they were playing live at Red Rocks and it just looked so incredible. And I was a kid and I set myself the dream, one day I'm gonna be on that stage playing Red Rocks myself. So then when I finally was playing Red Rocks for the first time, it was another one of these moments of like, I can't believe these dreams. I set myself so high that I would never reach them. I end up actually reaching, and it feels bizarre because I tried to set myself goals I will never reach.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And throughout my life, I've kind of surpassed my goals. And I always have to keep reaching higher because I like having dreams now, like having goals. And I think it's important to have something you work towards or for whatever that is in anybody's life. But I like having the drive to achieve something, whatever that may be.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

When you're playing, I mean, now that you have this information that when you go to a different city, different state, different country, different continent, and, you know, there's different energy of an audience, like now, you know, You've been everywhere, you've played everywhere. Do you approach every show the same in terms of like setup, the lighting, the loudness of the sound, whatever it might be? Or are you thinking, oh, the Philippines rocks this way? So I'm going to change the lights to create a mood and an environment to let them shine. And I know in England they're kind of like rowdier bunch and they're kind of off tune or whatever and they're just more screaming rather than like on pitch. And so I'm going to make it like louder for them and like, you know, deeper, deeper bass and just let them rumble. And it doesn't need to sound the way I like it, but it's going to sound the way it makes them feel most alive. Have you ever thought about that?

[C]

I haven't thought about what you just said specifically to kind of put the audience on stage in a sense. That's really, really good approach. Really good thought. What I definitely do is I change my show depending on where I play. I played a show in Mexico a couple weeks ago and it was. And I didn't know this until I got there, but I was the only electronic artist that day. And it was a gigantic festival. To make it just the easiest is like their Coachella, huge artists. I was playing at the same time as Toto, which I would have loved to watch myself.

[A]

Toto the band.

[C]

Toto the band.

[A]

Like Africa.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Oh, man. I saw them play once. They're all really.

[C]

I would have loved that. I missed them because I played. I had to be on stage.

[A]

I stayed with the opener for oh my gosh, Journey.

[C]

Oh, cool.

[A]

And so there. Yeah, it was fun.

[C]

But it was this huge festival. First of all, my doubts came in. Who's gonna watch me when Toto's playing?

[A]

Really?

[C]

As always. Yeah, it will never change. It's just how I think about myself. But I made my set that day, like in the green room right before I went on stage because I had no idea what to expect. I was talking to the drummer of the Mars Volta. They were playing like an hour before. It's like, what kind of audience did you have? And it's like, oh, they really like rock. I'm like, okay, I have some more rock versions or remixes of rock songs. So I added a bunch more rock leaning songs. So I will adjust accordingly when I'm on my tour. Natello's tour was a work of art, a movie in a sense. I'm not going to change the movie because of the theater. It's Playing in. I made a movie, and I'm there to present the movie as close as possible. And I've been adjusting the set a little bit on tour, but it is kind of. I see it as a work of art that I created that I want people to see while in Vegas, like, if another artist shows up, I will always play a couple songs of that artist. You know, I mean, there's. I don't know, there's a bunch of things that have happened where I saw people making out in the front row. Like, an opening artist jumped in the crowd to make out with somebody I know. Like, this is a Vegas thing. And I immediately switched to Careless Whisperer by George Michael because I was like, that's a funny moment. I know most won't get it because they didn't see it, but, you know, in Vegas, it's much more spontaneous. There's no set list. There's no.

[A]

Like, it's whatever you feel in the moment.

[C]

Whatever you feel in the moment. And I think I told you off camera, but in Vegas, I feel like I'm more of. I'm there to make sure everybody has the best night of their lives. I'm not there to promote my album. I'm not there to show the newest drops that I've got. I'm there to sometimes test out new music because I want to get information about how a song I'm working on sounds. And I feel like Vegas Wolf sounds.

[A]

Weird but still give you feedback, too.

[C]

Also, they will film less because people are in their own. You know, they're drinking, they're partying, they're dancing. They're not necessarily there to film and upload it. And I don't want those things out. I just want to get information. So I sometimes will drop a song really quickly, get the information I need, and mix out. So every concert has a different purpose. Wow. My tour, My Telus tour is a work of art that I spent with my, Like, a month with my team working on the finest details in lighting. And I still think it's one of the most incredible shows visually possible. And I'm really, really proud of it. And I don't look. I'm not really looking into adding a new hit that just went viral because that's not the purpose of it now. A viral hit in Vegas, that makes much more sense. A festival in Japan I will maybe play. And, you know, you got to think about things. Like, a relatively unknown song of mine has been in a car commercial in Japan, so that song is significantly more popular in Japan. Than it is in other countries.

[A]

So you'll play it there?

[C]

I'll play it there. So you have to consider all these things when you go to different man. You don't have to.

[A]

You do. That's smart. Because, you know, I speak a lot as a speaker. I'll go on stage. I like to go early. It kind of sounds similar to what you're doing. And I'll either ask other speakers, how is the audience? But I like to go even earlier and ask people, like, in the hallway hours before. And I like to ask, just, like, people attending whether they know who I am or not. I like to just say, hey, what are you going through in your life right now?

[C]

That's amazing.

[A]

What's your biggest challenge you're going through? What are you facing? What's, like, something? And based on what they say, I'll try to use that as information as, like, this is a general collective of what a lot of people might be feeling and try to speak into that. And I'll even reference, you know, I talked to Susie in the audience, like, 10 hours ago, and she mentioned that she was really struggling in this part of her life. How many other people are feeling like they're struggling in this part of the.

[C]

Area of their life?

[A]

Then I can kind of speak in and try to relate to that audience more.

[C]

That's amazing.

[A]

It sounds like you do that as well with, hey, tell the other artists who opened up, how was the vibe? Are they low energy? Do I need to bring it up? They like more rock music, so it's really smart. You do that.

[C]

I always do that. And I always do that at festivals with artists who play after me. I was like, hey, just letting you know they really loved. Because some audiences love to sing, which, you know, tend to be the shows I do the best. And some audience just want to rage. Like, every festival is different. So it's really good information. If somebody shares that I always do with whoever's playing after me, it's like, hey, by the way, they really like XYZ type of music. They don't seem to know xyz. And it really helps the DJ after me to be able to cater a little bit better. And I really appreciate when people tell me that. Most of the times, people when I'm like, how's the crowd? They're like, they're amazing. You're gonna love it. And they're not. I wish they were just honest. Like, I'm not gonna be like, just tell me. You know, it only helps everybody. Yeah, like, hey, it's really rough. They. They only know the sing alongs. Like, maybe this wasn't on the radio. Maybe they're on. Or, like, there's many reasons. It's not a personal thing, but I think honesty is just really good. But to what you said, where you would go into the audience and ask Susie about something that's going on in her life and reference it, which sounded crazy to me, but I realized I actually have done this. I've done four nights in San Francisco on my tour, and after, I think the first night, I did a album signing, a meet and greet in a record store, and people, you know, came up to me and, like, told me their personal stories, which was, you know, a lengthy period of time where I got to hear people's connection to my music.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Which was really, really awesome. Which is how we started the conversation. And one. One person said, I've been supporting you since Zelda came out. Which was like, I want to say 2010. Like, before I was signed, it was the very early days. I'm like, wow, you've been there. I mean, I have probably had a couple thousand fans maybe in the world. Like, you were there since day one. So I was like, I'm gonna play Zelda for you tomorrow.

[A]

No way.

[C]

And I played it just for that one person. It was eight and a half thousand people in the room, but it was just for that one person. And. But there might have been more who were like, I was there since day one. But it was this human sort of connection that, you know, maybe an AI on stage wouldn't necessarily appreciate or do 100%.

[A]

This is fascinating. I've got a few more questions for you, but this has been really cool, Anton, I appreciate you opening up.

[C]

Likewise. Yeah, thank you.

[A]

You know, there's a. There's either a stereotype, a stigma, or just a feeling that you see some artists die young or just get burnt out or stressed out or overwhelmed, or they can't take the fame or money or just don't know how to manage at all. It seems like it can be daunting. You've seen a lot of younger artists struggle, things like that. How have you been able to navigate that yourself with either burnout, the success, the fame? And also how do you manage and navigate it when other artists that you know are struggling, whether they're mental health, suicidal thoughts, the overwhelm of needing to be relevant and they're not as relevant. Whatever is going on, how do you manage it personally? And then how do you navigate it? Because I know you've had friends who've, you know, taken their life. Yeah. How do you navigate that as well?

[C]

I think the most important thing in a life where you're always out there, lack of sleep, you're surrounded by alcohol and drugs, girls, whatever that may be, is the people you surround yourself with, the team you build. It's the single most important thing, building a good team that's there for you and not there for you to make money, for them to make money. People who care about you as a human being, first and foremost. Those are the building blocks of a long and successful career, starting at the very beginning. Everybody I work with, I've worked with since 2010 before I had any success, really. Having trust in people is really, really important. And again, building a team that cares for you is really important. And having a human connection to the team and not just having a person that works for you, but with you, that's number one. Same goes for your friends. Friends are an influence, and they can sway you either direction. I think surrounding yourself with people that keep you in check, they give you sometimes, is good, no matter who you are. Now, if you're one of these artists or if you're an actor, if you're in the public eye and you struggle with suicidal thoughts. I've been surrounded by people I'm lucky enough to have never had those thoughts, but some of my friends in the industry have. And I think it's really important to check in on people. And I know people check in on me, and I really appreciate it. And I never take that as like, why are you checking in on me? I don't need it. No, it's always a good thing. Just, you don't have to do much beyond, hey, what's been going on? Like, how are you feeling? I've had friends who've had suicidal thoughts during the pandemic who are in the industry. I have had friends of friends that told me, man, this guy, he drinks way too much and he cannot control it. And I reached out to them and we briefly spoke about the fact that I've recently cut down on alcohol consumption a lot. I mean, I will drink occasionally when my parents are in town. I'll have a glass of wine with them. That's fine. I'm not, you know, not black or white, but my default used to be to drink on stage.

[A]

Really? Always?

[C]

For over 10 years, every show.

[A]

Was it like a nerves thing or was it more just.

[C]

It was a mixture of. I think there are advantages to having alcohol in you because you feel like you're connecting more with the people that have alcohol in them. It loosens you up a little bit. It makes you less nervous. Because I still get nervous still. And I know this because I wear a wound tracker and every single show, and I don't put in when I start my show. It knows exactly when my show starts. So that tells me that it might.

[A]

Also just be excitement.

[C]

It is. I mean, it's partially excitement. Right. They're kind of linked in a sense. But I do know that I still get some sort of body reaction when I go on stage. And I thought for the longest time. First of all, probably 10 years ago, I told my touring team, if I ever drink too much, like, if I become an alcoholic, you have to tell me because I'll be the last person to know.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

If you're the alcoholic, and we've probably. Most of us have been around people like that, you don't know, and you're gonna argue you're not. So I told them right away because I drink a lot. This is years ago. Like, you have to tell me if it gets too much because I won't know.

[A]

Did they try? Did they tell you?

[C]

They didn't. And I still, like, I would consider myself a functioning alcoholic before they would. And I think I trust them enough to know that they would tell me if something was really wrong.

[A]

So what made you want to stop making as much?

[C]

What made me want to. Stupid answer. But I started writing down my calories every. Every single thing I eat or drink. Everything. I made a spreadsheet that is as easy to use as possible. And I had other DJs ask me for that because I'm not alone. There's other people going through whatever you're going through. Always. Anytime you want to Google something, somebody's Googled it before you. Right? That's the general gist. So I started writing down my calories because I wanted to lose fat and gain muscle. And I started going down the rabbit hole of, like, how do you do that? Well, it's all about, you know, it's the very shortest. Is calorie in, calorie out?

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I started writing down all my calories and little things you wouldn't even think, like, AG1 50 calories. You know, you have 10 of those things throughout the day. That's a full meal. So I started writing them down. And there was this one show where I was pretty hungry and I had to show at 1:30am starting. And I look at my sheet and I'm like, well, I can either drink or eat. Because a shot of alcohol, just for the ones who are interested, is just about 100 calories. Right?

[A]

One shot.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I guess you don't drink calories for one shot.

[C]

Yeah. And you can go through 10 shots a night, no problem.

[A]

Holy cow. That's two meals.

[C]

Yeah, it's. It's. You know, you can have your entire day's worth of nutrients.

[A]

Yeah. That's crazy.

[C]

So I looked at it and I was like, okay, well, I can't afford to drink today because I don't have the calories. And if you mix it with other things, it's even more sugar.

[A]

It's brighter drinks. It's like more calories.

[C]

Yeah, even more calories. So I looked at my sheet and I was like, okay, well, today, because I want to stay on track, you can undo a whole weeks of starving and doing well and working out by one silly night out. And I will even argue that it's worth it to do that occasionally.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

If the right circumstances are met. But in that sense, every night and every weekend. It was my default. Right. It wasn't even. It got to the point where I would show up, and I want to thank everybody who does this because it just shows how much they care. But I would show up to places and people would know my favorite drink, which was Jack and Coke Zero, for a long time.

[A]

There's all of it.

[C]

And it was premixed the moment I walked in, so I didn't even have to ask for it. Like, that's really good hospitality. But it became a norm. It became like, Anton's drinking and he's drinking Jack and Coke. I would have two before I go on throughout the two hour set. Probably two to three on and like one or two after.

[A]

Right.

[C]

We're talking about 7, 800 calories at least. More because it's mixed than, like, there's probably a shot or two in between. And you feel the next morning.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

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[A]

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[C]

So two things happened. I started realizing through wearing a whoop that when I drink alcohol my recovery was awful, even if I didn't feel that way. But I don't always trust how I don't trust how I feel. I don't trust my memory because I think it's really just in general human beings memories are pretty bad. I trust something that has no data, no personality. It's just there to tell me so if my heart is working overtime just to keep my body clean or cleanse it from the alcohol, something's going on that's probably not ideal. So I looked at it and I was like, I don't like that I'm not doing something good to my body, number one. Number two was I just didn't have room for calories. So there was this one show that I previously mentioned where I realized I'm not going to have any room for calories, so I'm going to have to play it sober. And that was going to be my first sober Vegas show. And Vegas is a much tougher audience than virtually any other place that you can play because not everybody bought a ticket to see you. Because people go to Vegas to go to Vegas as well. You're one element of the night. And I was really concerned because for the longest time I thought I wouldn't be able to play shows live. And One of the DJs that I was kind of tipped off on drinking way too much said that exact thing. I could never do this sober, right? And that's a really, really dangerous thing to say when you play a lot of shows. And I remember going on stage playing sober. 45ish minutes passed into my set and I had this like moment of waking up where I realized, wait, I'm sober. I felt drunk. I felt exactly the same drunk as I felt before. And that made me realize that what I thought the alcohol was giving me, it wasn't the alcohol ever. It was the adrenaline, it was the excitement. It was the connection to the people. And that moment, I was like, oh, my God, I can, of course, do this over. Because I was scared to lose this feeling. And I was scared that if I lose this feeling, I'm gonna suck on stage.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

And if I suck on stage, I will just retire, because why would I even do that? Right? I don't have to do it if I don't want to. And I had this fear that it's the end of my career if I stop drinking, essentially, because me sucking on stage, people come to US shows. I make no money, I can't afford my team, I'm retiring. It's a full.

[A]

I'm a realm. I'm dead.

[C]

I'm a relative, right? But the moment I played a sober show, I was like, wow, it's not the alcohol. I just thought, it's the alcohol. It's really just that I love what I do.

[A]

Dude, that's amazing.

[C]

That was such a big realization. And I immediately reached out to that other dj, and it's like, you should try playing sober. And tried playing sober for a week and then went back to drinking. Now, I can't convince somebody if somebody doesn't want to help, have help. I don't think you can change them. But I think it's important to at least check in, have a conversation, because for me, the realization that this excitement is the carrying point and not the outcome was so, so big, because I had the fears of end of my career if I stop drinking.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

That's pretty crazy to think about.

[A]

Sure.

[C]

But it was in me. It was a fear I genuinely had, because the moment I go on stage and I don't like what I'm doing, I'm gonna retire the next morning and cancel everything that's upcoming because I don't have to do anything I don't want to do. And I'm unbelievably lucky to be able to say that. And there's another DJ that will take my spot, you know, gladly. I don't want to take anybody's time away if what I'm doing isn't fulfilling me with happiness. And I really believe part of the reason why people love coming to my shows and coming back to my shows is because I love what I do. And I think it translates. I think people can tell that I love, and it gets them hyped, too. And then I see them hyped, and it gets me hyped. It's this ecosystem of, like, excitement sharing, right?

[A]

100%. Yeah.

[C]

If I'm the one who's not having a good time and I see people do this and I can tell they're not having a good time, I just think it's like for the better to just maybe not do it at all.

[A]

Wow. Yeah.

[C]

If you don't enjoy what you're doing.

[A]

I'm so glad you're saying this. And it's, it's beautiful that you can be a model for other DJs and artists to be able to, hey, you've done it with alcohol and without it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Just as effective, if not more effective because you're more present, you're more aware, all these different things.

[C]

Probably I'm a significantly better DJ sober.

[A]

That's interesting.

[C]

I can have a shot. It's going to be okay.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But just the realization that, wait, I'm better at my craft, I can deliver a better result for people who have spent their hard earned money coming to my show.

[A]

It's a duty in your head.

[C]

It's kind of. I kind of sure I can have a shot if there's something to celebrate. Nobody will take that personally. They will probably be stoked that I did that because they're doing the same. But it's almost my duty to do anything I can to deliver the best show possible, 100%.

[A]

I've got a couple final questions for you, Anton. I know you got to jump out of here soon, but to finish with that, 20, I don't know, 22, 23 years ago, I was going out to the clubs to Paul Oakenfold and Tiesto and Ferry Corston and kind of those guys back in the day. And I remember I would go, and I think I was probably the only one that was sober at every club I'd go to. Right. In my like 21, 22 year old self. Right. And I would go and maybe I'd Sprite or have like a Red Bull or water or something, but I would just. I didn't need alcohol to feel alive. And everyone had asked me like, are you drunk? Because I was just like jumping the whole night in it. And I was like, nah, man, just get high on life.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And the energy can bring you alive, I think.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you bring the energy, you're also going to feel that as well.

[C]

So that's a really amazing thing for you to say because I will also admit my own shortcomings in being in the audience perspective because I have a friend who hadn't had any alcohol until I believe, age 31 ish. And he was the hardest partier out.

[A]

Of all of us going crazy. Right.

[C]

Like, ah, you know, must have been high on life because there was nothing else to be high on. He also never done any drugs. And I will say I still am very inexperienced in going out and partying sober.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

First of all, I don't really go out. Sure, you don't go out at all ever.

[A]

Yeah, but.

[C]

And when I do, I still feel so much anxiety to do it. But I love hearing you say that because it kind of teaches me that the same perspective of you can probably be better at what I do on stage. I can probably have a better time. And I wake up the next day not feeling like. Because that's. I mean, you've never been hungover.

[A]

Never.

[C]

It's the. I mean, it's not the worst thing, food poisonings, but being hungover is so terrible, it ruins. And that was the other thing. Being hungover directly translates to you not being able to work out as well. And I was in the state of. I had a perfect equilibrium between work, health and working out. And every time I drank, it was like. And everything was off, you know, I couldn't work out. I would cancel my workout, I would skip one. And then like, everything, it had such a ripple effect on me that I think just cutting down on alcohol was huge.

[A]

I don't know if there's any benefit strong enough for the case of drinking a lot of alcohol. Like, if you want to have a glass of wine or a shot once in a while, cool, whatever. But I don't know if there's a benefit of like, hey, I'm getting hammered tonight. Beyond that moment, there's no other benefit. And it. What it does to your brain and your health of like, the consistency of that, there cannot be any good in that.

[C]

Do you think people will still be drinking alcohol 50 or 100 years from today?

[A]

100, really? Because people. People none of their own fault. I mean, I'm. And I'm not here to judge because I wouldn't. I've like, had sugar highs. Right. Like, my whole life. Like, that's been. My vice is like, okay, I'm gonna eat like a bucket of ice cream, which is equally as bad in certain ways. Right. It's got its own thing. I just think that whenever there's ability to do the easier way, if you're feeling anxious, stressed, overwhelmed, for me, it's like, let me go to sugar, let me go to comfort food. Whatever it is, whatever the easy way is, humans are going to Go that way if it's alcohol, because it doesn't seem like the big issue, and it makes you feel more relaxed. Like, whatever. Is the easier way of smoking cigarettes or. Or e cigs, like the easy way to numb something.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is what human beings are going to do.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Unless they're really trained on how to regulate their emotions. And if you don't know how to regulate emotions, then you don't know how to get through life. And you need something to stimulate and calm or soothe you and comfort you. It doesn't mean you're bad or wrong. It's not about good and bad or bad. It's about, does it serve you?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Does it serve you? Does it serve the people around you with you being drunk or high or on drugs and then the next day not able to deliver or perform or you're forgetful? Does it serve your life?

[C]

Yeah. I mean, it's a really good question to ask. You know, everybody's answer may be different. And I will admit that in my early 20s, I didn't get hungover at all. So if I, if you had asked me this question when I was 23, I would probably say, yeah, it does, because I'm no longer nervous. I'm. It's like, you know, socially, I'm much easier to, like, meet people. 100 serves me, serves me. And the next morning I wake up not feeling, like, interesting. I'm, I'm good. But you, you know, there comes an age where long term effects. Right?

[A]

Yeah. You pay the price.

[C]

You pay the price, and the price gets higher by the day, man. And at some point it's too much to pay, and that's when you have to start. So, like when I. When people ask me for advice, it depends. Like, hey, should I cut alcohol? It depends. Everything depends. Everything is in the nuance. If you're 21 years old and you go on a date with a girl and you want to not be so nervous and you guys want to have a glass of wine, there's nothing wrong with it, in my opinion.

[A]

Sure, sure. Yeah.

[C]

If you're asking me that question at 41 and you know you're going to miss your entire week of working out, and it's got all these side effects. Well, maybe the answer is no. Right. Everybody has to decide for themselves. I think everybody's case is different 100%. But what's really, really important is to kind of learn about yourself. Like, why do you do it? Do you trust people around you to tell you when you do it too much? Because I See it all the time. I know of people who, in my opinion, drink way too much, and I see patterns where I think they can't control it. And they're playing it off as like, it's funny or like, it's really not funny.

[A]

It sounds obnoxious. When we get to that level, it.

[C]

Is just a form of them being an alcoholic, you know, so it's a difficult thing to joke about. But I think it's good to have people around you that you trust to tell you when you're doing anything too much.

[A]

100% I'm getting from your team. We got to get you out of here. So I've got two final questions for you quickly. I could go for hours with you here, but I want people to. Number one, I want to go into your shows. So I want to go to Vegas or where, you know, if you're on tour, people gotta go to choose. Okay, cool. But I want people to go see you live, so where can they go to see you live?

[C]

So the easiest way to see my whole touring schedule is zet.net zed.net and it will always show my Vegas shows. I would typically say I'm in Vegas every two weekends, I believe we just realized. So I'm there all the time. So, you know, on all the bigger weekends, I will be there. And then my Telos tour is a little bit of a different thing that we just wrapped up, but we might announce a couple more shows, so.

[A]

Nice. Stay tuned.

[C]

You can follow me on socials, but I'm not sure you're gonna see what I post. So, you know, you might have to just check the website. But, yeah, I mean, I'm usually. I rarely take time off. I'm kind of always on tour. When I'm not, I'm in the studio. So there's a good chance that I'll be in your city.

[A]

Awesome. Very cool. So check it out. Zed met Zed over, over on social media everywhere. These are the two final questions for you before I ask them. Anton, I want to acknowledge you for being an example for so many people in your industry to continue to transform yourself. You know, you got the whoop on. You're talking about, like, eating healthier. I think that could be one of the biggest things that holds artists back who will continue to make it at your level, where they let go of their health. And so to see you take back control of your health and say, how can I continue to improve and not let the anxiety, the overwhel, the stress get to me and Feel like I need to do more, but how can I actually take a step back, reflect, work on my health a little bit better? I want to acknowledge you for that, man.

[C]

Thank you so much.

[A]

It's beautiful to see, because I hate to see talented people and good people burn themselves out.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So I appreciate and acknowledge you for that.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

And I also acknowledge you again for being a light to so many people and bringing healing energy to the world. Whether you're conscious of it or not, whether you're planning to do it or not, you're doing it. And hopefully you'll think a little bit more about that in the future. When you step out on stage and you say, how can I bring healing energy? I think you're going to notice something extremely powerful shift over time when you bring that intention to the audience and what you'll receive in return. Just the intention. I'm here to heal.

[C]

That's awesome.

[A]

I'm curious to see whether you take it or not.

[C]

I will take it. I will report back.

[A]

I see. Yeah, I love it.

[C]

It's just that I never think about it, but it doesn't mean it's not there.

[A]

100%. 100% healing energy. Two final questions. I got to be quick with you. One is if you could imagine you get to live as long as you want to live, but it's the last day on Earth for you. It's far out in the future, but it's the last day you get to accomplish every dream that you have from this moment until the last day you're here on Earth. But for whatever reason, on the last day, you have to take all of your work with you. This conversation, gone. All your music, gone. Anything you've ever said, gone. But you get to leave behind three lessons with the world that we would have to keep from you. What would be those three lessons that you would leave behind with the world?

[C]

Well, that's such a deep question. Let me think about this. Three lessons that I would leave. Okay, so one core principle of my life is good people, good times. That is lesson number one. It doesn't matter what you do or go through, as long as you go through it or do it with people you love, you will always have a good time. Probably the most important lesson I have to give at all. Second lesson is that I believe humans can achieve anything as long as you devote enough time and dedication to it. And I was having a conversation about perfect pitch, something that we're born with or not born with. And then I heard that in China, like an Exceedingly large number of people have perfect pitch. And I was like, well, what? Why are they born with perfect pitch? And I believe it has to do with the fact that their language is way more complex and has intonations built into the meaning of words. So it's not just the word, but at what pitch you say it. So that I'm just throwing out. A theory is that if you practice anything long enough, you can get really good at it. So people tell me, well, I'm 23. I wish I started piano earlier. Well, you start at 23 and you devote as much as you can to it. And I really think you can become a writer, a performer, anything you want. So the human capacity is unbelievable. And I think my lesson is that at any age you want, you can start anything. As long as you really devote yourself to it, you can become great at it. Lesson number three. Oh, what could be lesson number three? Sleep, silly one. But sleep matters so much. I've underestimated the effects of sleep and the need of sleep. Everything I do in my 24 hours minus the sleep suffers drastically when I don't get good sleep. So invest in a good pillow, invest in a good mattress and in a good chair for working throughout the day. I think if you look at the amount of money you spent on coffee and other things throughout your life. Overall, throughout your life, a good mattress and a good pillow is a good investment. So really take sleep seriously.

[A]

Awesome. Three good lessons. Final question, Anton, what's your definition of greatness?

[C]

My definition of greatness? Can you give me an example?

[A]

My definition is to pursue your unique talents and gifts. Or, excuse me, to maximize your unique talents and gifts in pursuit of your dreams. And in that pursuit, make the maximum impact on the people around you in a positive way. For me, that's greatness. But I've been practicing this for 12 years.

[C]

That's an incredible answer. I think anything I say will be in that same realm. And it really follows my. My life philosophy of surrounding yourself with people that you love, that inspire you, that you can inspire back. I wish I had a better definition that I can like, just say like that. But just to explain it, I think it's going to be almost a copy of yours. But really following your dreams and following your guide and not letting me or anyone else tell you what to do or how to do, but really do it the way you want to do it, because you're one of a kind and nobody's you. And you have your own unique talents and energy and completely follow the guide that. That is. Don't listen to me my man.

[A]

Appreciate you man.

[C]

I appreciate you.

[A]

Thank you so much for listening to this episode. If you enjoyed this and if you found value, make sure to share this with one friend. Just copy and paste the link and text a friend where you feel would be truly inspired by this episode as well. And also make sure to click the Follow button on Apple or Spotify wherever you're listening to this episode because we a massive episode coming up next that I do not want you to miss. So make sure to follow this and be on the lookout for the next episode coming with some massive content and guests. Also, I have a brand new book called Make Money Easy and if you are looking to create more financial freedom in your life, you want abundance in your life and you want to stop making money hard in your life. But you want to make it easier, you want to make it flow, you want to feel abundant, then make sure to go to make moneyeasybook.com right now and get yourself a copy. I really think this is going to help you transform your relationship with money this moment. Moving forward, we have some big guests and content coming up. Make sure you're following and stay tuned to the next episode on the School of Greatness. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links and if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness+channel exclusively on Apple Podcast Podcast.

[B]

Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review.

[A]

I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward.

[B]

And I want to remind you if.

[A]

No one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter and now it's time to go out there and do something great.

[C]

Sweetheart.

[B]

What about this one?

[C]

Um nah fam, that's a little sus. Shopping with teenagers can be hard between figuring out what they like and what they mean. But with Walmart at least shopping for their next pair of glasses is easy. With the Walmart app, you can virtually try on frames at home, upload prescriptions, and get new glasses delivered right to your door. It's an easier way to get stylish glasses they'll actually like.

[A]

Now these new glasses.

[B]

Total vibes.

[C]

Buying new glasses has a new look. Welcome to your Walmart. Valid prescription required.

[A]

When living with cancer, it's important to.

[B]

Be informed and know what to expect.

[A]

But finding the right information can feel overwhelming.

[B]

That's why understandcancertogether.com is here to help. We've gathered practical information and resources based.

[A]

On where you are in your cancer journey so that you can focus on.

[B]

The important conversations and decisions of today.

[A]

Understand CancerTogether.com helping you navigate life with cancer one moment at a time.