Stalky

Summary

The Secret World of Roald Dahl

Podcast: iHeartPodcasts
Host: Aaron Tracy
Episode: Stalky (Episode 3)
Date: February 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode, “Stalky,” explores the lesser-known Hollywood chapter of Roald Dahl’s life—his transformation from a war hero and spy to a struggling screenwriter, and how his brushes with fame, power, and repeated rejection shaped his path before he became a legendary children’s author. Through anecdotes of dazzling parties, disastrous film projects, and unlikely alliances with Walt Disney, Alfred Hitchcock, and the James Bond franchise, host Aaron Tracy examines how Dahl’s Hollywood struggles, ego, and experiences with collaborative failure eventually influenced not just his writing style but the very darkness and subversive spirit underlying his best-loved works.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Hollywood Arrival: Dahl’s Headlong Dive Into Stardom

• [02:08] Dahl, age 26, barely published, is swept to Hollywood to adapt his RAF fairy tale “The Gremlins.”
• He's thrown a surreal party in Beverly Hills. Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Charlie Chaplin, dress as Dahl’s Gremlins.
• Memorable moment: "Strolling through the party, champagne in hand, looking at his boyhood heroes and his greatest fantasies in these ridiculous costumes… Charlie Chaplin bows at his feet. What chance did the poor guy have?" —Aaron Tracy [03:15]
• [05:28] Discussion of the seductions and dangers of Hollywood for naïve young artists—how espionage and screenwriting both require manipulation and performance.

2. “The Gremlins” and Walt Disney: The Dream and the Clash

• [07:56] Backstory on the Gremlins story: tiny, sabotaging creatures who ultimately help the British during WWII.
• Hollywood at the time is hungry for patriotic escapism.
• [09:14] Sidney Bernstein, powerful producer and anti-fascist, puts the story into Walt Disney’s hands.
• Disney and Dahl’s creative differences:
  • Disney, collaborative and idealistic; Dahl, solitary, dark, and fiercely protective of his own vision.
  • [12:07] Disney throws a lavish Gremlins-themed party for Dahl at the Beverly Hills Hotel.
  • Disney calls Dahl “Stalky” because he can’t pronounce his name.
  • [13:07] Disney launches a full marketing blitz before the script is finished.
  • Dahl, controlling and arrogant (per his friend Antoinette Marsh), ultimately clashes with Disney’s collaborative process.
  • [15:12] Disney cancels the project, leaving Dahl furious and embarrassed.

"Dahl is just not capable of letting go of his vision at this point in his life... his ego just always gets in the way. And right now, because of his success with the Gremlin short story, he's 'more arrogant than ever.'" —Aaron Tracy [15:01]

3. Repeated Failures: The Curse of Hollywood and Perseverance

• [19:33] Dahl’s Hollywood experience mirrors tragic writer stories—F. Scott Fitzgerald is cited as a warning.
• Fitzgerald, a literary giant, also failed in Hollywood due to an inability to adapt to collaboration and studio politics.
• Similar heartbreak for Dahl: a promising Gregory Peck film (O Death, Where Is Thy Sting? A ling, a ling) falls apart $2 million into production.
• He keeps trying despite setbacks: “Hollywood is the only place where you can die of encouragement.” —Pauline Kael, quoted by Tracy [24:42]

4. Finding a Kindred Spirit: Alfred Hitchcock

• [25:57] Hitchcock discovers Dahl’s dark short stories and finds them perfect for his anthology show Alfred Hitchcock Presents.
• Lamb to the Slaughter and other twisted tales are adapted, showcasing Dahl’s talent for dark humor and shocking twists.
• Hitchcock, unlike Disney, is the ideal collaborator for Dahl—appreciates and enhances his twisted visions.
• The success leads Dahl to create his own TV series, Tales of the Unexpected.
• [29:59] "If a man falls into a sausage machine and is sold in the shops at so much a pound, that's funny. It is also tragic." —Roald Dahl [30:09]
• This period helps Dahl identify his true voice: stories that blend darkness with entertainment.

5. Triumph with James Bond: You Only Live Twice

• [31:51] In 1966, Dahl is hired to write the fifth Bond film despite his own mixed feelings and ego about adaptation.
• Dahl’s own spy background and friendship with Ian Fleming make him a natural, if reluctant, fit.
• He takes massive creative liberties, essentially tossing Fleming’s original plot.
• "It is notable that only Bond, the title and the location of an Ian Fleming book have been used by Mr. Dahl in writing his screenplay..." —Bosley Crowther, NY Times [37:45]
• The movie is wildly imaginative (ninja training, volcano lairs, piranhas), both silly and stylistically “Dahlian.”
• Despite the usual problems (Bond sexism, yellowface), the movie is a huge box office hit.
• Dahl finally pays off Hollywood-wise, achieving financial security and mass success.

"That's the only one I've had any real fun doing, and it was Sean Connery's last one he did, and we went to Japan and you live in such luxury when you do a Bond..." —Roald Dahl [41:53]

6. Disillusion with Adaptation: Chitty Chitty Bang Bang & Return to Original Work

• Next, Dahl adapts Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, another Fleming work.
• It’s a creative disaster; director rewrites his script, and Dahl is soured on screenwriting for good.
• This difficult chapter clarifies his strengths and the importance of creative autonomy.

7. Hollywood and Personal Life Collide: Meeting Patricia Neal

• Amid the highs and lows, Dahl’s Hollywood life puts him in the path of actress Patricia Neal, whom he later marries.
• Their troubled but eventful marriage—marked by both artistic achievement and private tragedy—will feature in the podcast’s continuing story.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Disney’s mentorship:
  "This silly young man in RAF uniform staying in a suite in the Beverly Hills Hotel." —Roald Dahl [11:55]

• On the jaw-dropping Gremlins party:
  "Charlie Chaplin bows at his feet. What chance did the poor guy have?" —Aaron Tracy [03:15]

• On the Hollywood experience:
  "Hollywood is the only place where you can die of encouragement." —Pauline Kael (quoted) [24:42]

• On working with Hitchcock vs. Disney:
  "He made no sense with Disney. Hitch is his destiny... it says a lot about Dahl’s range that he could write movies for both men." —Aaron Tracy [27:44]

• Explaining the “Dahlian” tone:
  "The whole vibe of the movie reminds you of Dahl’s children’s books, with a playful tone mixed with existential cruelty and danger." —Aaron Tracy [38:51]

• On his own Bond experience:
  "That was fun. That’s the only one I’ve had any real fun doing… and you live in such luxury when you do a Bond… enormous fun.” —Roald Dahl [41:53]

• Dahl’s signature darkness:
  "If a man falls into a sausage machine and is sold in the shops at so much a pound, that's funny. It is also tragic." —Roald Dahl [30:09]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:08] – Dahl’s Hollywood arrival and Gremlins party
• [05:28] – Parallels between screenwriting and spycraft
• [07:56] – Why Gremlins was perfect for wartime Hollywood
• [12:07] – Disney’s “welcome” to Dahl, early collaboration
• [14:37] – Dahl vs. Disney: creative differences and failure
• [19:33] – Hollywood failures and the F. Scott Fitzgerald parallel
• [25:57] – Partnership with Hitchcock and TV success
• [29:59] – Tales of the Unexpected and the “Dahlian” blend of humor/horror
• [31:51] – Dahl writes for James Bond: opportunity and conflict
• [37:45] – Critical reviews of You Only Live Twice; box office triumph
• [41:53] – Dahl reflects on Bond movie experience
• [43:52] – Chitty Chitty Bang Bang disappointment
• [45:24] – Meeting Patricia Neal, moving toward the next phase of Dahl’s life

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Episode Tone and Closing

Aaron Tracy delivers a playful yet sharp analysis, mixing admiration for Dahl’s talent with clear-eyed assessments of his ego, ambition, and failings. The episode moves briskly, mixing anecdotes, historical context, and direct quotations from Dahl and those who knew him. It leaves listeners eager for the next twist in Dahl’s wild personal and professional journey.

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Next time: Dahl’s Hollywood life sets the stage for his tumultuous marriage to Patricia Neal and the legendary literary career to come.

Transcript

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Here's what sometimes happens in Hollywood. It's a cautionary tale that we've all heard in a million books and movies and pop songs. A young, sometimes talented actor or filmmaker goes out to LA to pursue their dream, gets seduced by the flash and glamour of the industry before they've done the hard work of mastering their craft. And what does it always lead to they get chewed up and spit out. There's a reason the cliche exists. Roald Dahl is 26. He has one published story to his name, one. He's never read a screenplay before, let alone written one. But the most successful producer in Hollywood history? More on him in a sec. Has just flown Dahl all the way from D.C. to Beverly Hills, where he throws a lavish welcome party in Dahl's honor. The guest list is like the front row at the Oscars. Giant movie stars, beautiful actresses all looking ridiculous because they're dressed up as tiny green creatures. Why, you ask? Because those are the main characters in Dahl's short story, the Gremlins. Imagine the head trip for Dahl seeing all this, just strolling through the party, champagne in hand, looking at his boyhood heroes and his greatest fantasies in these ridiculous costumes based on creatures he thought up. Sitting in his underpants in his tiny walk up apartment in D.C. he doesn't know whether to laugh hysterically or cry at the absurd sight. A powerful producer throws his beefy arm around Dahl's shoulders. The producer ushers Dahl through the party and guides him over to a little man who's currently delighting a whole circle of giggling women by the bar. The producer wants to introduce Dahl. The little man turns around, sees that the producer is giving him the eye, looks Dahl up and down, then winks at him, followed by an exaggerated theatrical bow, as if welcoming the young writer into a secret society like everybody else. The little man is dressed up as a green monster, but despite the costume, Dahl recognizes him. Of course he does. He's the most beloved man in the country. What the hell is happening? When we talk in Future episodes about Dahl's sometimes problematic ego, try to remember that he's 26 years old with zero produced credits to his name. When a starry Hollywood party is thrown in his honor and Charlie Chaplin bows at his feet. What chance did the poor guy have? As we discussed in previous episodes, Dahl packed a lot into his 20s and 30s. He was starting to figure out where his passions lay. He suspected they were somewhere in the dark, twisty short stories he was writing. Which leads to the next completely crazy and intoxicating chapter that he wills into the story of his life. Welcome to Hollywood. For My Heart Podcast, Imagine Entertainment and Parallax. I'm Aaron Tracy, and this is the Secret World of Roald Dahl, Episode three. Imagine for a second that you're a young, ambitious short story writer being praised for the originality of your voice and your clever twist endings. And imagine that you've just spent years as a spy, learning how to seduce and manipulate and lie your way into the highest echelons of power. If you were such a person, where would you go when the war ends? Of course you would pack up and take your talents to the movies. The dream is intoxicating, especially back in that era.

[Cindy Crawford]

Oh, Ricky, look.

[Aaron Tracy]

Hollywood's out there. Like countless writers before him, Dahl was blinded by the promise of celebrity, money and mingling with the tan and beautiful. And honestly, after years in spycraft, where he lived in a world of smoke and mirrors, transitioning to another world of illusions does make some sense. Succeeding in Hollywood and succeeding in espionage require many of the same skills, like manipulation and seduction, for starters. Plus, after all the daily adrenaline he's become used to from flying aerial missions, then spying on the rich and powerful, I think it would have been too difficult for Dahl to transition directly to the sedentary life of a novelist, which is what he really wanted to be. Screenwriting is a different beast. It's an adrenaline rollercoaster. I've been doing it since right out of school. There are crazy high highs and awful low lows, and every day is different. So Dahl tries on yet another mask as he attempts to figure out who he is. Now he'll see if this one fits better than businessman, fighter, pal, or spy. This one is Hollywood power player. The short story directly responsible for bringing Dahl to LA is the one about the Gremlins, those menacing little green creatures destroying RAF planes. The one Eleanor Roosevelt liked so much she invited Dahl to the White House. The hero of Dahl's story, Gus, is an RAF pilot whose plane crashes because of a gremlin. He learns that the little creatures are avenging the destruction of forests where they live to make way for British airfields. Gus heroically convinces the Gremlins to redirect their energy into helping the war effort instead of sabotaging it. The Gremlins become allies of the Brits, using their expertise to repair planes and even make them faster. Dahl thought of the story as just a silly fairy tale about little creatures with horns and long tails who walk about on the wings of your aircraft, urinating in your fuse box. So all this hoopla around the story is kind of hard for him to believe. At the time Dahl writes the story, all the big Hollywood movie studios are on the lookout for patriotic films. Unlike the First World War, when the industry was still in its infancy and there was more ambiguity about the conflict, this war offers the opportunity for big, noisy, nationalistic movies to feed an existentially terrified audience. This war is Tailor made for the movies. It's an easy to digest good versus evil storyline. Those who love freedom versus fascists trying to conquer the world. Here's Charlie Chaplin in the Great Dictator. The hate of men will pass and

[Roald Dahl]

dictators die and the power they took from the people will return to the people.

[Aaron Tracy]

And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. Dahl is still working as a spy for the Irregulars when he writes the Gremlins. His employment requires him to run any story he wants to publish by the British government first so they can pass judgment and be sure no national secrets are being spilled. The government reader assigned to Dahl's story happens to be a very well connected businessman with a passion for film, Sidney Bernstein. Bernstein is a devout anti fascist desperately trying to help Jewish actors and filmmakers get the hell out of Germany right now. He's also a producing partner of Alfred Hitchcock. When Bernstein reads the Gremlins ahead of its publication, he instantly sees the potential. It's a little diamond of a story. Instead of just straight propaganda, which can be heavy handed and boring. Dahl's story is full of clever, inventive details, but it's still an inspiring tale of US and British cooperation to defeat fascism. Bernstein has just come off a consulting gig on Mrs. Miniver, William Wyler's best picture winner about how an unassuming British housewife is affected by the war.

[Roald Dahl]

It is a war of the people,

[Aaron Tracy]

of all the people, and it must be fought in the home and in

[Roald Dahl]

the heart of every man, woman and child who loves freedom.

[Aaron Tracy]

Mrs. Miniver is also the highest grossing film of 1942 with its huge success. Bernstein can kind of write his own ticket and get any material he wants into the hands of practically anybody he wants. He could have decided to give Dahl's story to Hitchcock and potentially save Dahl decades of pushing a boulder up a hill. Instead, he goes in a different direction. He decides the perfect fit for Dahl's Gremlins is a charismatic producer in his early 40s who happens to be on a hot streak. His name is Walt Disney. Animal anatomy is a thing that is not taught properly in the art schools.

[Roald Dahl]

So I started a special course in

[Aaron Tracy]

animal anatomy that's Walt Disney with weirdly specific insight into the kind of small details that differentiate his technique. Disney is only a handful of years removed from his giant industry changing success with Snow White. In just the past couple years he's made Pinocchio, Fantasia, Dumbo and Bambi. I'm going to make you stop and think about that for a second. When people debate the best run by an American filmmaker ever. Some argue for Hitchcock's six year period of nine absolute bangers, ending with Psycho or Billy Wilder's decade long run of eight classics, starting with Sunset Boulevard and ending with the Apartment. Personally, I advocate for Rob Reiner in the late 80s who had a string of five perfect movies in six years with when Harry Met Sally smack in the middle. Disney produces rather than directs, but he's the creative force behind his films, so you've got to put his miraculous period just before meeting Dahl up there with anyone. Like seemingly everyone who meets young Dahl, Disney takes right to him. He loves the Gremlin story, which somehow blends fantasy and horror with patriotism and heroics without feeling at all manipulative. Disney sees serious promise in a young writer, just like C.S. forster had. So he takes Dahl under his wing to show him how movies are made, which is pretty nuts. Dahl is 26. He's trying to make a career out of writing and specifically at this moment, screenwriting. When a typical young writer goes to Hollywood and gets really lucky, maybe a junior development exec at a mid sized production company lets him be an intern offering pointers while making him carry his golf clubs at Hillcrest. But if you've learned anything about Roald Dahl by this point in our season, it's that normal rules just don't apply. Dahl's introduction to Hollywood is getting mentored by the most creative and arguably the most successful producer the town has ever known. Right at the moment of his peak creativity. Disney puts the Gremlin story right into development. And rather than hire a professional screenwriter to come adapt it, an adult, he decides he wants to keep Dahl's unique voice. Here's Dahl talking about it on Desert Island Discs.

[Roald Dahl]

I went out to Hollywood at his expense with RAF permission and staying with a car provided by Walt, this silly young man in RAF uniform staying in a suite in the Beverly Hills Hotel.

[Aaron Tracy]

It's the same swanky hotel that's about to be a favorite of Marilyn Monroe, Howard Hughes and Frank Sinatra. And it's Disney who throws Dahl that welcome party where everyone dresses as a Gremlin from the top of this episode. According to writer Matthew Dennison, a Disney illustrator who meets Dahl at the time, all the girls in Hollywood went crazy for Dahl. And he basically starts dating all of them and flirting with a list actresses like Ginger Rogers and Marlene Dietrich heard here in angel in Paris.

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Bethenny Frankel]

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[Cindy Crawford]

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[Aaron Tracy]

Those are Dahl's evenings during the days he and Disney spend long hours in story conference working with illustrators and directors. Disney is crazy about Dahl, though he has a lot of trouble pronouncing his first name. So instead, in very Disney fashion, he calls his tall protege Stalky. As Walt and Stocky continue to break story for the Gremlins, Disney does what he's learned to do activate the publicity machine. He puts the little green creatures into advertisements and even creates a comic strip around them. Disney is basically willing the film into the public consciousness well before the screenplay is finished or craft services has laid out a single cracker. At first glance, Dahl and Disney seem to be total opposites. Dahl's work, even at the beginning, is dark and subversive, often satirical. Disney's is bright and idealistic. Dahl's stories have a creepy edge and explore greed and cruelty in the grotesque, leaving the reader with moral ambiguity. Disney makes movies with clear moral lessons and usually happy endings, aiming to inspire joy. It's the difference between the dark, alt skater kid in high school who listens to a lot of Billie Eilish and old Cure albums, and the upbeat, preppy cheerleader who loves Ariana Grande. As for their take on childhood, which is a key subject for both men, Dahl sees it as an existential battle against cruel adults. For Disney, it's idyllic, filled with wonder and innocence. But look closer and the two men do share a bunch of things in common. For starters, both create trippy, fantastical worlds, and both champion the underdog. Big time dolls Matilda, Charlie and James overcome huge challenges. So do Disney's Cinderella, Snow White and Dumbo. All of them rise above adversity, screaming at the world that it better not overlook them like Disney's Pinocchio. I'm real. I'm a real boy.

[Roald Dahl]

You're alive and you are a real boy.

[Aaron Tracy]

The biggest difference between Dahl and Disney and what's going to lead to their undoing is their very different approaches to work. Dahl is a writer's writer in the mode of great novelists. He likes to work alone, doing battle with the page, fulfilling his very personal vision. Disney is the ultimate collaborator. He works with teams of writers, directors, animators and musicians to bring ideas to life in a communal environment. So it's not a surprise that Dahl and Disney begin butting heads. Dahl is just not capable of letting go of his vision at this point in his life. He doesn't understand or doesn't care that filmmaking is collaborative. A screenplay is just a blueprint for a structure that will be built by lots and lots of people for his entire career, Dahl will have a hard time with anyone who dares to edit or change his vision. His ego just always gets in the way. And right now, because of his success with the Gremlin short story, he's quote, more arrogant than ever, according to his buddy Antoinette Marsh. So of course he believes there's no need to change anything. He doesn't want to, even if Walt Disney, the King himself is the one asking. Eventually, inevitably, Disney decides the collaboration, or lack thereof, just isn't working. And there are about a million other stories he could be working on. So after all the time, money and advanced publicity he's poured into this thing, Disney pulls the plug. Dahl is furious at first, then maybe a little embarrassed. He quickly tries to find another producer. But the war has wound down audiences. Tastes have begun to change. Troops are coming home completely traumatized. Two world changing nuclear bombs have been set off audiences. They don't want a story like the Gremlins anymore. A story that highlights cooperation and camaraderie. People start demanding more challenging, more morally ambiguous movies like film noir. Dahl is incredibly disappointed, but self aware enough to realize he's just gotten a crash course in Hollywood's inner workings from one of its all time master craftsmen. He's determined not to let that go to waste, he decides to keep at it.

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[Aaron Tracy]

Dahl's decision to keep fighting that uphill battle of a Hollywood career could have been game over. There are so many stories of gifted writers coming out to LA and falling on their faces. William Faulkner comes to mind. Aldous Huxley, Truman Capote. Maybe the most interesting and most tragic is F. Scott Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald had every reason to think he'd be a success in the movies. He was maybe the most gifted novelist in an era that included a hell of a lot of gifted novelists. And he loved film. He didn't just come to Hollywood for the paycheck like so many others. Part of what makes Fitzgerald's attempts at screenwriting so sad is that he seemed to put as much effort into it as he put into Tender Is the Night or the Great Gatsby One of the reasons we only have four and a half novels by Fitzgerald, each a masterpiece, is because he spent some of his prime years trying to break into movies. He blamed his failure on the studio system, which has always totally demeaned writers. Here's Robert De Niro as a studio head and Jack Nicholson as a union organizer. From Fitzgerald's unfinished novel, the Last Tycoon, I'll tell you three things. All writers are children, 50% are drunks, and up till very recently, writers in

[Roald Dahl]

Hollywood were gag men. Most of them still are gag men, but we call them writers. Uh huh. But there's still the farmers in this business. They grow the grain, but they're not.

[Aaron Tracy]

In at the Feast, Fitzgerald's pal Billy Wilder compares him to a great sculptor who's hired to do a plumbing job. Fitzgerald simply didn't know how to connect the pipes so the water could flow. In his entire Hollywood career, Fitzgerald only got a single screenwriting credit, and even on that one, he was totally rewritten by the producer. Like Dahl with his gremlins, many of Fitzgerald's projects were scrapped or he got fired off them. By the time Hollywood kicked him out, Fitzgerald was broke, alone, his body ravaged by alcohol, and years of his talent completely wasted. That's the potential future that awaits Dahl. Whenever there's a forking path and the universe splits in two directions. The path Dahl goes down is always, always the more interesting one. I want to jump forward to several years after the Disney debacle. Dahl is still trying without success to get a movie made. His agent brings him an offer from United Artists to write a screenplay called Wait for It. O Death, Where Is Thy Sting? A ling, a ling. The reason Dahl is interested in it, aside from the hefty check, is that it's based on a story by a very talented, very eccentric young director, Robert Altman. Here's Altman on the Dick Cavett show from 1971 on starting new projects.

[Roald Dahl]

No matter how easy it seems, it's always impossible. There's a thousand things that get in the way and then you go into making the picture and then finishing the thing and then going through this business of getting it open and seen properly and luckily the cycle. About the time you really get bored and tired with one thing, the next one comes up and you get a kind of a whole new shot of enthusiasm.

[Aaron Tracy]

Altman will bring that enthusiasm to some of the defining films of the 1970s that he directs, like MASH, McCabe and Mrs. Miller and Nashville. The idea for Singaling a Ling centers on A raid by World War I fighter pilots on the German Swiss border. Dahl, of course, has firsthand experience as a pilot in a world war, and he sees promise at Altman. Seems like a fit. He takes the gig. United Artists loves the script, Dahl writes, but they do not want Altman to direct it. Allman's too stubborn, too avant garde for the studio system, which he freely admits here on the Charlie Rose Show.

[Roald Dahl]

I think that had I had to always make successful films, I would have failed.

[Aaron Tracy]

But Allman is so angry at getting booted that he tries to get the entire project scrapped, which really angers Dahl, who's desperately trying to get his first movie made. Dahl hires a famous pit bull of a Hollywood agent, Swifty Lazar, to fight for him, and eventually all men gives in. A new director is brought on and filming in the movie actually begins with Gregory Peck, the legendary star of To Kill a Mockingbird and Roman Holiday in the lead. Dahl seems to have finally done it. After several failed attempts, he's finally going to have one of his screenplays produced. The curse of F. Scott Fitzgerald be damned. But then during the shoot, the head of United Artists watches the footage and doesn't like what he's seeing. He pulls the plug in the middle of production, just shuts the whole thing down. According to Dahl, $2 million had already been spent. Just like with the Gremlins, Dahl is left with yet another abandoned project and more of his hard fought writing that will never see the light of day. It's devastating for Dahl. He was so close, he could taste it. Cameras were rolling, a movie star was saying his words. And then nothing. He's ready to give up, to abandon this insane business that just keeps delivering heartbreak. But after some sleepless nights with that awful 3am wake up where you feel trapped, wondering if you're wasting your life on something that will never, ever happen. Dahl does an amazing thing. He walks it off. He puts the rejection behind him, chalking it up to an industry that is very much not a meritocracy, and decides to keep trying to. Producers and agents, after all, keep telling him how talented he is. And CS Forrester asked him if he knew he was a writer. He'll crack the code eventually. He has to. Too many people are telling him he will. Dahl becomes the living embodiment of my favorite quote about the industry from our greatest film critic, Pauline Kael. Hollywood is the only place where you can die of encouragement. So he soldiers on. He doesn't know it yet, but his script for that abandoned film will eventually do more for his career and for his finances than any other script he'll ever write. We'll come back to that. Over the next few years, Dahl has a number of other projects fall apart. Revered director Howard Hawks wants to work with him, but it comes to nothing. Dahl supposedly wins an incredible assignment to adapt the classic dystopian novel A Brave New World, but again, it doesn't work out. He also apparently tries his hand at adapting Moby Dick. No dice. Then, in the late 50s, Dahl finally hooks up with the person who feels like the platonic ideal of a collaborator for him, very much his long lost spiritual brother. And sometimes that's all it takes. Alfred Hitchcock started making movies in America in 1940. Fifteen years later, near the beginning of that wild six year run of classics, he somehow finds the time to host, produce and occasionally direct an anthology TV series on cbs. The show Alfred Hitchcock Presents is made up of thrillers, mysteries and creepy stories of all kinds. Here's the man himself.

[Roald Dahl]

Do you believe in ghosts?

[Aaron Tracy]

Of course not.

[Roald Dahl]

I knew you didn't.

[Aaron Tracy]

The show is hugely successful and becoming a major influence on series like the Twilight Zone and Black Mirror. Now, while most of Hitch's films are written by great playwrights like Thornton Wilder or novelists like John Steinbeck or established Hollywood heavyweights like Ben Hecht, John Michael Hayes and Ernest Lehman, Hitch needs way more writers and way more material for a weekly show. Skimming through Collier's magazine one week on the lookout for new blood, Hitch comes upon a story called the Smoker by a writer with a very unique name. Dahl's story is about a man who gambles with strangers. The stakes of the bet? They're pinky fingers. If they lose, they have to chop theirs off and hand it over. Dahl's sadistic hero amasses a disgusting collection. Hitch reads the story in one sitting and is completely tickled. It's just his blend of dark and funny and sadistic. Hitch buys the rights to the story immediately and asks what other tales Mr. Dahl has now? You have to remember that TV in the late 50s and early 60s is not what it is now. Prestige TV was an oxymoron the year Alfred Hitchcock Presents first airs. The top rated series are all inane variety and Talk shows number one in the nation. The $64,000 question before the massive scandal that revealed it was totally rigged. Others in the top 10, the Ed Sullivan show, you Bet yout Life, and I've Got A Secret. Hitchcock looks at the TV landscape and sees an opportunity for sophisticated scripted drama. He adapts Dahl's stories into episodes for three different seasons of his show. Watching them now, it's obvious the filmmaker and writer are a perfect match. Both delve into dark, unsettling themes. Both will have twist endings that throw their audience frills. They both create morally corrupt protagonists. Today we call them anti heroes. Decades before, the Sopranos and Breaking Bad did the same thing and people called it the great American art form. Hitch is the collaborator Dahl has been waiting for. He made no sense with Disney. Hitch is his destiny. He says a lot about Dahl's range, by the way, that he could write movies for both of those men. He's the only person in history to do it. One of Dahl's stories optioned by Hitch is called Lamb to the Slaughter, which centers on a wife who kills her husband with a frozen leg of lamb and then serves the murder weapon as dinner to the investigators searching for the killer. The story shares a lot in common with Hitch's Dial in for Murder and even more blatantly Rope, where chilling murders are committed by killers arrogant enough to keep the evidence right beneath the nose of the lead investigator. We've always said, you and I, that moral concepts of good and evil and right and wrong don't hold for the intellectually superior. Remember Rupert? Yes, I remember. Hitch and Dahl also share an interest in the psychological depths of their very flawed heroes. Jimmy Stewart in Hitch's Vertigo is obsessed with transforming a new woman in his life into his dead girlfriend. In Dahl's the Way up to Heaven, he creates a hero who's just as manipulative as Stewart's character, taking pleasure in tormenting the woman in his life. Dahl has such a good experience with Hitch's show that he's inspired to create his own anthology series. Near the end of his life called Tales of the Unexpected, Dahl takes a page from Hitch and introduces the stories on screen himself, though in his case he sits in a cozy armchair by a crackling fire with his writing board on his lap and a pencil in his hand. The image screams kindly grandfather novelist. Which of course is smartly undermined by the utter creepiness of his plots. Here's a typical clip from Dahl's opening

[Roald Dahl]

if a bucket of paint falls on a man's head, that's funny. If the bucket fractures his skull at the same time and kills him, that's not funny. It's tragic. And yet, if a man falls into a sausage machine and is sold in the shops at so much a pound, that's funny. It is also tragic.

[Aaron Tracy]

The show becomes a rare Hollywood success for Dahl One that took him decades to achieve. Dahl's show runs almost as long as Hitchcock's did, nine full seasons, and Dahl becomes famous as his host. But years before he conceives of that show, Dahl's still chasing his dreams of getting a movie made. You got to admire his persistence and his chutzpah. Dahl is on the lookout for a project with even greater auspices than Disney or Altman or Peck, something even less likely to fall apart. What's most amazing is he actually finds it in an assignment that he feels downright destined for now. Whenever I pitch a TV show or feature, I spend at least a minute of the very limited time you're given trying to explain why I'm the guy to write this particular project. Writers joke about this. It's kind of a silly thing. Buyers want to know that if they're giving you all this money to write a script, it's got to be something you are the perfect fit for. What goes unsaid, of course, is that you're a working writer who needs to pitch a new idea at least a couple times a year. And they can't all be perfect fits. For his next project, though, Dahl didn't need to do much convincing. In 1966, Albert Broccoli and Harry Saltzman, producers and owners of the James Bond franchise, approached Dahl with an offer. They want him to write the fifth Bond movie, you Only Live Twice. The producers had read and loved Dahl's script for O Death, Where Is Thy Sting? A ling, a ling. Sorry. And they had heard about Dahl's life as a British spy, possibly from Bond creator himself, Ian Fleming. Fleming passed away in his mid-50s from a heart attack two years before Dahl joined the franchise he created. Dahl and Fleming, you may remember, were buddies in D.C. in their 20s. Both writers, both working and espionage, both uncommonly handsome and charming. Though Dahl never felt comfortable around Fleming, Fleming was always too cool, too cosmopolitan, too above it all, Dahl always felt like his raggedy younger brother. But now Fleming is gone, and Dahl has seemingly been tapped to succeed him. While Dahl is privately thrilled about the opportunity to write Bond, he's a little embarrassed at how far away it is from his ambition to write great novels, as writer Matthew Dennison points out, while in public, Dahl maintains a snobby detachment toward Bond, like in A Letter to a Friend, where he refers to the movie as my silly James Bond film. Or when he tells his book publisher that he finds the whole enterprise exceptionally distasteful. This is a theme that will recur throughout Dahl's professional life. He becomes successful in something, but it's not the right thing. Like later killing it in children's literature when he'd rather be writing for adults. But Dahl is drawn to the glitz and glamour of Hollywood, and there is no glitzier franchise than J. James Bond. It clearly feeds his ego to have a Rolls Royce sent to his writing studio to ferry new drafts of his script to London. And remember, Dahl is still desperate to finally actually get a movie made. Now with any script, even with the greatest auspices attached or based on a popular piece of intellectual property. There is no such thing as a sure thing. A friend and I were once assigned to write the TV adaptation of the board game Risk, a beloved game with international name recognition. Recognition, but no human characters. We still came up with a pretty good idea, but the project fell apart. There are no guarantees in this business but for Dahl being presented with the fourth sequel to a cultural touchstone and money printing franchise starring the same A list actor in what appeared to be his final time as the title character, that is as close to a sure thing as Hollywood ever has to offer. And even though Dahl despises being rewritten himself, he doesn't seem to have any qualms about totally rewriting his old pal Ian Fleming. Honestly, it feels as if Dahl didn't even bother to read the book he's adapting on the film's release. New York Times critic Bosley Crather says it is notable that only Bond, the title and the location of an Ian Fleming book have been used by Mr. Dahl in writing his screenplay, which is maybe for the best. Fleming's novel is kind of dreadful, which Dahl takes his license to create his own completely banana story. In the film, we follow Bond as he fakes his own death and goes undercover to Japan to investigate the disappearance of American and Soviet spaceships which are threatening to ignite World War iii. Along the way, Bond trains with ninjas, infiltrates a secret lair that's housed inside a working volcano. Seriously. And encounters one of Bond's greatest villains, Blofeld, who makes his first full appearance in youn Only Live Twice. Here's Blofeld himself, complete with his blue eyed Persian lap cat.

[Roald Dahl]

You will see that my piranha fish get very hungry. They can strip a man to the bone in 30 seconds.

[Aaron Tracy]

And if that all sounds incredibly silly, it is ten times sillier when you watch actors try to pull it off with a straight face. There are lines in the movie like bad news from outer space and welcome to my ninja training school, which I transcribed. I kid you not from the same scene, but that's the contract the audience signs with a Bond movie when they buy a ticket, right? The zaniness isn't a defect, it's built in. Dahl knows that and he delivers. You can just tell how much fun Dahl is having while writing. He revels in the playfulness of Bond even more than the screenwriter of the earlier four films. Of course, there are some problematic elements in the film too, which is partly due to it being 1967, partly due to it being James Bond, and at least partly because it's from the mind of Roald Dahl. For instance, Bond's opening line in the film, why do Chinese girls taste different from all other girls? Or the long section when Bond disguises himself as a Japanese fisherman, yellowface and all. Though it should also be mentioned how many Asian characters and therefore Asian actors, have major roles in the film, which is very unusual for a major Hollywood movie at the time. And as for the typical Bond womanizing, there's a lot which of course is baked into the franchise. Though Dahl has to take some of the blame for not even bothering to give Bond's love interest a name, much less a personality, watching the movie now, knowing its screenwriter was very much a real life James Bond, makes the espionage plot a lot of fun. Dahl is clearly drawing on his own experiences. Much of the film is set in a foreign country country for the hero, where he has to immerse himself in the culture in order to stop a world war. And he seduces influential women as he goes. Just like Dahl had to navigate the elite social circles of D.C. and New York to extract information, build alliances, and do a hell of a lot of seducing. During his world war. The producers took a big gamble bringing Dahl into the franchise. The first four Bond films had all been hugely successful. Dr. No introduced the series From Russia With Love, outperformed it at the box office, which is super rare. Goldfinger came next and became a cultural phenomenon. Then Thunderball, the fourth in the series, which is still the biggest box office hit of any Bond ever, adjusted for inflation. So expectations are sky high for the next one. What's more, each of the first four are co written by Richard Maibaum. Maibaum is the one who established the formula of Bond. And when franchises are working, you do not change writers midstream. Just look at the Harry Potter films where seven of the eight movies were adapted by a single writer, Steve Kloves. But while Maybaum will stay with the franchise until his death, you gotta wonder if the producers are growing tired of him. Or not. Sure, he's up to the challenge of the fifth film, which is especially difficult because of how terrible the source material is and because there's now tons of competition from Bond knockoffs. The real test for Dahl in all of this is whether or not he's learned to collaborate. His inability to do so destroyed his film with Disney and contributed to his failures with Altman. But by this point Dahl has learned his lesson and become a great, generous collaborator. Just kidding. Collaboration is antithetical to Dahl's nature, so he takes another path when the producers of Bond bring in a second screenwriter, Harold Jack Bloom. Bloom is a veteran TV writer who comes in and basically rewrites all of the action scenes in the movie. Dahl is furious about this. He tries to completely rewrite Bloom until all of Bloom's action scenes are gone, and through sheer force of will, Bloom's credit drops from the prestigious screenplay buy to the sort of embarrassing additional story material buy It'll be the first time on any Bond movie that a writer has received solo written by credit. And in the end, whether or not Bloom deserves more credit than he got, the film does feel very Dahlian like with the villain Ernst Blofeld, who becomes iconic in Dahl's hands and calls to mind doll villains like miss Trunchbull and Matilda and the Grand High Witch and the witches. The whole vibe of the movie reminds you of Dahl's children's books, with a playful tone mixed with existential cruelty and danger.

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[Bethenny Frankel]

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[Aaron Tracy]

Dahl calls Bond the best experience of his Hollywood career. After many failed or aborted attempts, Dahl has finally achieved his goal. He's the writer of a major Hollywood hit. Here he is again on Desert Island Discs discussing the experience.

[Roald Dahl]

That was fun. That's the only one I've had any real fun doing, and it was Sean Connery's last one he did, and we went to Japan and you live in such luxury when you do a Bond and you go in helicopters everywhere, tops of mountains and everything. Enormous fun.

[Aaron Tracy]

The film does not receive rapes. But Bond movies aren't made for critics, and some reviewers do actually love it. Bosley Crowther again in the New York Times writes, this way out adventure picture should be the joy and delight of the youngsters and give pleasure to the reasonable adults who can find release in the majestically absurd. Which kind of doubles as a pretty good summation for all of Dahl's children's books. Actually, Pauline Kael enjoys the film too. Comparing it favorably to Stanley Kubrick. Kael writes, there was a little pre title sequence in youn Only Live Twice with an astronaut out in space. A daring little moment that I think was more fun than all of Kubrick's 2001. It had an element of the unexpected, of the shock of finding death in space. Lyrical. Even more important than critical reception for Dahl is the film's box office, which is huge. To this day, 27 movies in you only live twice is the fourth highest grossing bond film ever, adjusted for inflation, and in no small part because of that. It's a turning point in Dahl's career. After Bond, he never has to worry about money again. But of course it's a bit of a double edged sword. He's gotten the film made, but it's not the serious literature he still aspires to. Dahl is massively conflicted and doesn't quite know where to turn next. The producers have an idea. As soon as Bond is completed, they bring Dahl on to write another Ian Fleming adaptation. But rather than another Bond, which plays into Dahl's real life experiences, this new project takes advantage of Dahl's recent success with children's stories. The film is Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, starring Dick Van Dyke. What an unusual car.

[Bethenny Frankel]

It's called Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

[Cindy Crawford]

That's a curious name for a motor

[Bethenny Frankel]

car, but that's the sound it names. Listen.

[Aaron Tracy]

The movie centers on an eccentric inventor who transforms a broken down car into something that can fly. And while people still adore the film today, Dahl found it a terrible experience. It permanently soured him on filmmaking. He had a very difficult relationship with the film's director, Ken Hughes, who dared rewrite Dahl's script, which again veered far from Fleming's novel. Dahl is still struggling with what kind of writer he wants to be. He'll soon find that Hollywood actually kind of gives him a roadmap. Dahl's experiences in LA directly lead to the success he'll find writing for children. You could call it a necessary step in his evolution. His work with Disney, Too light. Chitty Chitty, too saccharine. Hitchcock, perfectly dark. Help him find the sweet spot that will define his children's books. Dark themes packaged in accessible, entertaining ways. It also helps him realize where his strengths and interests really lie. For one thing, in creating original worlds rather than adapting other people's work. And it teaches him the importance of creative control and autonomy. During all of Dahl's adventures in the screen trade, he becomes notorious for dating beautiful actresses. Dahl is 36 when he's invited to a dinner party one night at Lillian Hellman's house. Hellman is one of the most respected playwrights and screenwriters in the country. Also invited to the party is 26 year old Patricia Neal, a confident, beautiful, red headed movie star currently cast in one of Hellman's plays. Here she is years later in her most famous film, Breakfast at Tiffany's.

[Cindy Crawford]

I am a very stylish girl.

[Aaron Tracy]

What are you doing? Writing a check.

[Roald Dahl]

Don't look so bewildered. Surely you've noticed me writing checks before.

[Aaron Tracy]

Dahl will marry Neil. They'll have five children together. Their experiences during the marriage, writing bestsellers, winning Oscars, and enduring some of the most devastating traumas and tragedies imaginable will make all of Dahl's exploits so far look like child's play. Dahl's life with Neil is eventful, emotional and shocking enough to fill several books and movies, which it does. But this is not your typical love story. As Neel reveals in her memoir, written 35 years later, even on the day of their marriage, she knew she didn't love him. The reason for this? She's in love with someone else. And this other man, this rival Friedal, happens to be the most famous man in the world. The Secret World of Roald Dahl is produced by Imagine Audio and Parallax Studios for iHeart Podcasts. Created and written by me, Aaron Tracy Produced by Matt Schrader Post production by Windhill Studios with editing, scoring and sound design by Mark Henry Phillips Editing by Ryan Seaton Music by APM Executive producers Nathan Klokke, Kara Welker, Brian Grazer, Ron Howard and Aaron Tracy. Additional voice performances and recreation by Mark Henry Phillips and 11 Labs. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate and review the Secret World of Roald Dahl on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Copyright 2026 Imagine Entertainment, iHeartMedia and Parallel Foreign.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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