My guest this week is a historian columnist television presenter and vocal advocate for better sex for women!

I first encountered Dr Kate Lister when I stumbled across her brilliant instagram account @whoresofyore, along with half a million others.

In a world where even back in the late 20-teens where we thought the work was, if not done, then at least going in the right direction - laughs hollowly - it was still radical for someone to stand up and say that women demanding better sex didn’t arrive with the 21st century. It has, as Kate has dedicated her life to proving, been a very long fight indeed.

Kate is the host of the award winning history podcast Betwixt The Sheets, she writes a weekly column in i-news and has appeared on countless history programmes including House Through Time and Victorian Murder Club with Lucy Worsley.

Kate’s brilliant new book Flick - a history of female pleasure - takes us from Mesopotamia to trad wives by way of orgasms, oral sex, masturbation, frigidity, sexual fluidity and much more. It is a 300 page battle cry against the idea that when it comes to sex women want to just ‘lie back and think of England’

Kate joined me to talk about sex as the great leveller, slut shaming, virginity and how sex has been used for millennia to control women. We also discussed her perimenopausal period hell, why midlife women could benefit from pleasure education, the price of doing all the emotional labour in the bedroom and why she wouldn’t recommend putting vaginal oestrogen cream on your face!

* You can buy all the books mentioned in this podcast at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The Shift bookshop on Bookshop.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, including Flick by Dr Kate Lister as well as the book that inspired this podcast, The Shift: how I lost and found myself after 40 - and you can too, by Sam Baker.

* If you enjoyed this episode and you fancy buying me a coffee, pop over to my page on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠buymeacoffee.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

• And if you'd like to support the work that goes into making this podcast and get a weekly newsletter plus loads more content including exclusive transcripts of the podcast, why not join The Shift community, come and have a look around at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.theshiftwithsambaker.substack.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

• The Shift is created, hosted and produced by Sam Baker and edited by Juliette Nicholls at Pineapple Audio Productions.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices