Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Episode Title: A Query That Ticks all of CeCe’s Psychological Acuity Boxes
Release Date: January 9, 2025
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, and CeCe Lyra
Introduction
In this engaging episode of The Shit No One Tells You About Writing, host Bianca Marais is joined by literary agents Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra from P.S. Literary Agency. The trio delves into the intricacies of crafting effective query letters and opening pages, aiming to provide emerging writers with invaluable insights into the publishing industry. The episode features the "Books with Hooks" segment, where Carly and CeCe critique submitted query letters and manuscript excerpts, offering constructive feedback to help writers refine their pitches.
Segment 1: Opening Discussions and Podcast Announcements (00:00 - 01:59)
Bianca kicks off the episode with a brief promotion of the "Ultimate Planner for Writers 2025," highlighting its features tailored for writers' needs. Carly Watters then announces her upcoming webinar on publishing predictions for 2025, emphasizing topics like AI deals and TikTok's influence on publishing.
Notable Quote:
- Carly Waters (00:41): "I've been told that my predictions are 'frighteningly accurate.'"
Segment 2: First Query Letter Critique – "Fragile Hostility" (02:00 - 15:00)
Carly introduces the first query letter submitted by Patricia Pat Canterbury. The manuscript, titled Fragile Hostility, is an 85,000-word upmarket story that blends themes of love, loss, and forgiveness. The narrative centers around Vince Kern, a wrongful death attorney torn between his demanding career and his struggling family farm in South Dakota.
Key Points of Discussion:
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Spelling Errors: CeCe emphasizes the importance of correctly spelling the agent's name to make a positive first impression.
CeCe Lira (06:45): "Just a reminder to everybody, my name is all over the show. You can always figure out how to spell my name." -
Clarity in Genre and Themes: CeCe points out inconsistencies in the query that make it unclear whether the novel is historical, contemporary, or a mix of genres.
CeCe Lira (08:02): "There's a great Grapes of Wrath mentioned... I don't know what time and place we're in." -
Character Motivation: The need for stronger motivations for Vince's decisions, especially his choice to prioritize work over family, is highlighted to enhance emotional depth.
CeCe Lira (09:52): "Why does he need this job? Is he struggling for money? Does he have to pay alimony?" -
Reducing Redundancy: Suggestions to eliminate repetitive phrases, such as the overuse of the word "forgiveness," to maintain narrative flow.
Carly Waters (09:08): "Think of yourself like a poet. We don't need to be duplicating words in such a short amount of space here."
Notable Quotes:
- Carly Waters (06:24): "This one clocked in at 463 words, so a little bit on the longer side."
- CeCe Lira (12:26): "I should look up what, you know, like every anniversary year."
Segment 3: Author Insights and Positive Feedback (15:00 - 22:23)
Bianca shares exciting news about authors who have transitioned from submitting to Books with Hooks to appearing on the podcast, showcasing the platform's effectiveness. Carly reveals that the word count of the first query is on the longer side and emphasizes the importance of concise pitching.
Notable Quote:
- Bianca Marais (05:30): "I continuously work to improve my writing skills through writing classes, instructional books, and constant reading."
Segment 4: Second Query Letter Critique – "Missing Eden" (22:24 - 41:45)
Laura Mulen presents her query for Missing Eden, an 85,000-word upmarket women's fiction novel. The story follows Lucy Riley's quest to find her missing roommate, Eden, intertwining themes of identity, belonging, and the complexities of college life.
Key Points of Discussion:
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Strong Hook but Weak Motivation: While the premise is compelling, CeCe and Carly discuss the lack of a strong, relatable motivation for Lucy's quest, which may hinder reader investment.
CeCe Lira (28:47): "A compelling motivation behind a hero's decision to embark on a quest is essential." -
Genre and Tone Confusion: CeCe notes that the query oscillates between genres, making it unclear whether it's a mystery, thriller, or women's fiction.
CeCe Lira (32:27): "To me, this is more of a mystery or a thriller than a women's fiction." -
Pacing and Plot Development: Concerns are raised about the pacing, with too much focus on the first semester of college before the inciting incident of Eden's disappearance.
CeCe Lira (32:47): "Spending way too much time on the page about this first semester where nothing happens." -
Psychological Acuity Praise: Despite critiques, Laura's writing is highly praised for its psychological depth and interiority, showcasing a strong grasp of character psychology.
Cece Lira (36:53): "This might be the best example of psychological acuity I've ever seen in a query letter."
Notable Quotes:
- Laura Mulen (25:55): "Missing Eden explores the untethered nature of our college years and how in the search for identity, a person can get lost."
- Carly Waters (15:58): "This is not starting in the right place. A thousand percent."
Segment 5: Additional Feedback and Writing Tips (41:46 - 48:01)
The agents provide further feedback on Laura's query, emphasizing the importance of starting the story at a compelling point and avoiding being overly descriptive or "on the nose." They also caution against excessive brand mentions, which can distract from character development and thematic depth.
Key Points of Discussion:
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Starting in Media Res: Laura is advised to consider alternative starting points that immediately engage the reader rather than beginning with a mundane scenario.
Laura Mulen (36:53): "This isn't starting in the right place." -
Avoiding "Namesplaining": CeCe highlights the issue of introducing characters with overly descriptive labels, recommending more subtle introductions to maintain reader engagement.
CeCe Lira (34:58): "Find an interesting and compelling way to tell me who these people are." -
Brand Mentions: The agents discuss the potential pitfalls of mentioning brands, as they can imply unintended social or economic statuses, which may distract from storytelling.
CeCe Lira (44:02): "Brands are symbols. Brands are symbols of something, right."
Notable Quotes:
- CeCe Lira (45:05): "We're talking about coming of age, it's very natural to think about your class within the kind of institutional system of something like education."
- Laura Mulen (41:22): "If you are going to name something, what does it mean? What are you trying to say?"
Conclusion
The episode wraps up with Bianca thanking the guests for their insights and reminding listeners about the availability of detailed critiques on their Substack newsletter. She also announces an upcoming author interview and encourages writers to continue honing their craft.
Notable Closing Remarks:
- Bianca Marais (47:10): "I hope you'll join us for next week's show. In the meantime, keep at it."
Final Thoughts
This episode offers a deep dive into the nuanced art of writing effective query letters and opening manuscripts. Through meticulous critiques and thoughtful discussions, Bianca, Carly, and CeCe provide emerging writers with actionable advice to enhance their submissions and better navigate the competitive landscape of publishing. Listeners gain valuable perspectives on balancing narrative elements, maintaining genre clarity, and infusing psychological depth into their characters, all while avoiding common pitfalls in writing and pitching their work.
Notable Quotes Summary:
- Carly Waters (00:41): "I've been told that my predictions are 'frighteningly accurate.'"
- CeCe Lira (06:45): "Just a reminder to everybody, my name is all over the show."
- CeCe Lira (08:02): "There's a great Grapes of Wrath mentioned... I don't know what time and place we're in."
- Carly Waters (06:24): "This one clocked in at 463 words, so a little bit on the longer side."
- CeCe Lira (09:52): "Why does he need this job? Is he struggling for money? Does he have to pay alimony?"
- CeCe Lira (12:26): "I should look up what, you know, like every anniversary year."
- Laura Mulen (25:55): "Missing Eden explores the untethered nature of our college years and how in the search for identity, a person can get lost."
- Carly Waters (15:58): "This is not starting in the right place. A thousand percent."
- CeCe Lira (34:58): "Find an interesting and compelling way to tell me who these people are."
- Bianca Marais (47:10): "I hope you'll join us for next week's show. In the meantime, keep at it."
Recommendations for Writers:
- Attention to Detail: Ensure accurate spelling of agent names and other critical details in your query to make a positive impression.
- Clear Genre Identification: Clearly define the genre and themes of your manuscript to help agents understand your work's market positioning.
- Strong Character Motivation: Develop compelling reasons for your protagonist's actions to engage readers emotionally.
- Avoid Redundancy: Be mindful of repetitive language that can dilute the impact of your narrative.
- Thoughtful Branding: Use brand mentions judiciously to enhance character development without distracting from the story.
By incorporating these insights, writers can enhance the effectiveness of their queries and increase their chances of securing representation and publication.