Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

August Bonus Episode – August 25, 2025
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra
Featured Guests:

• Jo Mori – Debut author of Lime Juice Money (US) / The Night Lagoon (UK)
• Shari Lapena – International bestselling thriller novelist

Episode Overview

This dynamic bonus episode focuses on two author interviews: debut novelist Jo Mori, whose Central American suspense novel explores themes of family secrets, hearing impairment, and survival; and Shari Lapena, acclaimed author of domestic thrillers, who delves into her process, career pivots, and the craft of writing effective suspense. The hosts and guests offer candid, practical advice for aspiring writers on querying, building a career, and constructing addictive, tension-filled fiction.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jo Mori: Debut Publication Journey

(Begins at 03:17)

Inspiration and Writing Process

• Jo’s Inspiration: The seed for Lime Juice Money came from a vivid image of a woman trapped in a Belizean jungle, “lonely, but not alone.”
  • “I’m a very visual writer…this novel came to me as a visual of a woman trapped in a jungle.” (16:47, Jo Mori)
• The character’s hearing impairment was layered in later, directly inspired by Jo’s own experience.
• The writing process took approximately two years, balancing creative vision with strategic approaches to publication.

Querying and Finding an Agent

• Entering Competitions: Jo strategically entered reputable writing contests, aiming to include accolades in her query letters. Success here generated agent interest.
  • “I used that momentum to then target agents that I had always had on my wish list.” (05:15, Jo Mori)
• Personalizing Queries: Drawing from her background in headhunting, Jo emphasized tailoring each query after thoroughly researching the agent.
  • “Absolutely critical…In your query letter, you want to be telling the agent, you know, making it really easy for them…positioning it for them and just doing the work for them." (09:32, Jo Mori)
• Tracking Submissions: Kept a detailed spreadsheet to organize contest entries, query progress, and feedback.
• Choosing the Right Agent: Despite multiple offers, Jo selected Maddie Milburn, aligning with her vision for the book.

Editorial Process & Market Positioning

• Revisions: After signing, structural edits focused notably on the middle of the book and one character arc; Jo physically cut and rearranged printed pages to visualize structure.
  • “I printed out that whole middle section and put it all over the bed…cut it to pieces and stuck it back together.” (11:21, Jo Mori)
• Differing Titles and Covers (UK vs US):
  • UK publishers re-titled the novel The Night Lagoon to emphasize family saga elements.
  • “The US were really keen to…lean much more into the sort of suspense crime element…and pitch it more like a sort of slow burn thriller.” (14:32, Jo Mori)

Crafting Lived Experience on the Page

• Portraying Hearing Loss: Jo describes experimenting with blanking out syllables and words to simulate degraded hearing, adding a “layer of unease and tension.”
  • “Your brain is working overtime to really piece together what’s going on… so I experimented with different ways of doing that, but eventually ended up with blanking out certain words and syllables[.]” (20:51, Jo Mori)

Authenticity through Research

• Despite writing convincingly about botany, Jo admits:
  • “They came into my garden to water my flowers for me...Because I kill everything, literally kill everything.” (24:06, Jo Mori)
• Extensive research into 1980s orchidology grounded the father’s character and settings.

Prologue & Voice

• The prologue was written early but only included after editorial discussion to set tone and intrigue.
  • “I wanted to have it there as a way of…giving that ambiance of the jungle from the beginning…” (28:47, Jo Mori)
• Jo enjoys “playing with language”, especially inventive verb use, aligning character voice (“lush, evocative” prose) with the protagonist’s creativity.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (Jo Mori Interview)

• On querying:
  “Finding an agent is a lot like dating and I think you've got to find the right person and that, you know, chemistry has to be there.” (05:15)
• On including competitions in query letters:
  “I entered competitions…just to sort of, again, just have something to write in a query letter and to stand out a bit from the crowd when that time came.” (07:42)
• On subjectivity of the industry:
  “The same book, it’s the exact same book, can be positioned completely different in different markets…” (16:15, Bianca Marais)

Memorable Prologue Reading

(25:54 – 28:34, Jo Mori)
Jo’s reading immerses listeners in a sensory-rich, ominous jungle setting, culminating with a body discovered clutching a brilliant orchid:

"The bones of four fingers are curled stiff, clutching at the torn single bloom of an orchid, a bright orange cattleya, its color screaming brighter than the sun.”

2. Shari Lapena: Writing Thrillers & Career Pivots

(Begins at 31:51)

Career Evolution

• Genre Pivot: Started with literary comedies before switching to thrillers, finding her natural voice and global appeal.
  • “I always liked thrillers…but I always thought they had really elaborate plots… I didn’t think I was capable of that…Then one day I just thought, you know, that’s what I’d like to write.” (34:25, Shari Lapena)

Industry Insights

• On Publishing Realities: Discusses how author track record can be an obstacle, especially for non-debuts.
  • “Don’t get too big in advance because if you don’t earn it out, you’re a pariah afterwards.” (37:48, Shari Lapena)
• Genre and Market Strategy: Switching genres and targeting a broader audience helped relaunch her career.
  • “My agent didn’t even bother with the Canadian publisher. She just went right to New York and sold it there as a New York type thriller, like as a global type of book.” (36:43)

Crafting Propulsive Suspense

• Pantser Method: Writes without plotting, enjoying daily surprises and authentic character-driven choices.
  • “For me, I love the first draft because…it’s like reading a story. I want to know what’s going to happen next.” (41:37)
• Domino Effect & Multiple POV:
  • "If something is slow, then I…just take this from another person's point of view and get more energy in it...Because different people know different things and they're all affected by different ways.” (45:22, 46:47)
• Organic Twists: Doesn’t retroactively insert clues, but “builds as if any character could have done it," ensuring endings feel both surprising and inevitable.
  • “As I’m doing it, I’m assuming all the way through, oh, I think this person might have done it. So I’m building it as if that person did it.” (49:13)

Deft Use of Psychological Depth and Misdirection

• Limited Third POVs: Balances reader connection with characters while keeping essential secrets concealed, using emotions and unreliable perceptions.
  • “You have their feelings, but you don’t give all of their thoughts. And you can give misleading thoughts and dialogue.” (53:05)
• Social Masks and Context:
  • Discussion of how social personas and limited perspectives are central to domestic suspense—“you don’t know what’s happening behind closed doors.” (58:22)
• Prologue Usage: Uses prologues intentionally, especially when a slow build precedes a major event; they set tone and promise suspense rather than act as “band-aids.” (59:40)
  • “You need to have something at the beginning showing there’s going to be a body that will be discovered. So that’s really why I do it…” (59:40)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (Shari Lapena Interview)

• On pantsing vs plotting:
  “If you know where it’s going, it can feel wooden or feel forced, especially twists that have to feel completely natural and organic to the plot.” (43:11)
• On authentic character psychology:
  “Everyone sees in any given scene, people will view it in different ways and see it differently and interpret it differently. And my characters do that all the time. So the poor reader is left with many different views of what’s happened.” (55:12)
• On the pitfalls of large advances:
  “There’s nothing worse, I think, than having a big advance and having the book flop and then where do you go from there?” (38:18)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:17 – Jo Mori explains her path from inception to publication.
• 05:15 – Jo discusses querying and contests.
• 09:32 – The importance of personalized query letters.
• 11:21 – The editing/submission process with HarperCollins.
• 14:32 – Discussion of US/UK title differences and market positioning.
• 16:47 – Jo’s visual process and the novel’s origin.
• 20:51 – Portraying hearing impairment on the page.
• 25:54 – Jo reads the haunting prologue.
• 28:47 – Decision to include the prologue.
• 31:51 – Shari Lapena’s introduction and background.
• 34:25 – Shari describes switching genres.
• 37:48 – Industry realities: advances, track record, and career strategy.
• 41:37 – The joys of pantsing and authentic character reactions.
• 45:22 – The power of multiple POVs for pacing and plotting.
• 49:13 – Keeping readers guessing and organic planting of clues.
• 53:05 – Balancing interiority, misdirection, and limited narration.
• 58:22 – Real-life inspiration for domestic suspense.
• 59:40 – On using prologues in suspense fiction.

Additional Tips for Writers

• Strategic Contest Entry: Target competitions with manageable fees and use results in queries to stand out.
• Query as a Live Document: Update comps and details continually for maximum relevance.
• Personality Matters: Querying and agent choice are about “chemistry” and aligned vision, not just enthusiasm.
• Line-Level Craft: Match voice, tone, and verb choices to character psychology and story “dress code.”
• Embrace Your Process: Both plotting and pantsing can work—use what keeps the writing authentic and vibrant.
• POV Mastery: Multiple limited third POVs create tension, pace, and space for psychological intrigue without revealing key secrets.

Episode Tone & Takeaways

True to the podcast’s ethos, this episode is brisk, honest, full of practical advice, craft insights, and supportive banter. Both main guests demystify the struggles and pleasures of launching—or reinventing—a writing career, offering listeners encouragement, industry wisdom, and actionable craft strategies.

For more, visit the podcast's website or follow the hosts on social media. Book links for both authors are offered via Bookshop.org to support indie bookstores and the show.