← The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Beginning With The Three Cs
00:39:41
Books with Hooks, Bianca, Carly and Cece
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- [00:00]
Carly Waters
As a literary agent, you know, there's only one thing I like talking about more than books, and that's money. More importantly, cash that stays in your pocket. I'm on the lookout for our listeners at all times. I'm combing deal memos and book publishing contracts for hidden ways that writers are on the hook. And that's why we are thrilled to partner with Chime. Who's changing the way people bank? They offer the most rewarding fee Free banking built just for you. That's right, built for you. Not the 1% Chime members can benefit from up to $1,150 in annual rewards fee. Free direct deposit unlocks the most rewarding way to bank at Chime. Chime is rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. That's real humans 24 7. You're not just switching banks. You're upgrading to America's number one choice for banking with a Chime checking account. They're not like traditional old banks that charge you overdraft and monthly fees. And if you're like me and travel a bunch and love premium travel perks like airport lounge access, you've got it. And the 247 travel concierge included with your Chime card. My younger self would have loved a fast track to airport lounge access. The you get 5% cash back on Chimecard in a category of your choice like gas or groceries for your next writer's retreat. You get savings that grow faster with 3.75 APY. That's nine times higher than the national average. You can even get up to $500 of your pay. When you say with my pay. They also have SpotMe which lets you overdraft up to $200 fee free. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to bank join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime to.comtsnatya that's chime.comtsnatya it only takes a few minutes to sign up.
- [01:28]
Cece Lira
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- [01:50]
Bianca Murray
Hi there and welcome to our show the shit no one tells you about. I'M best selling author Bianca Murray and I'm joined by Cece Lehrer of Wendy Sherman Associates and Karlie Waters of P.S. literary. Hi everyone, welcome back to another Books with Hook segment. As per usual, we are diving straight in. Karlie, will you please kick us off with your query letter?
- [02:15]
Carly Waters
Dear Tsnatya Crew, thank you for continuously providing writers a space to learn and grow with valuable resources each week. I've been an avid listener for four years. This podcast has greatly impacted my writing for the better. I've queried 20 agents for this project but have received a combination of form rejections or no responses. Since then, I've rewritten my query letter and rewrote the beginning of my manuscript as perhaps I was starting in the wrong place. Your insights and critiques would be of great value to me. Before I begin another round of querying, thank you so much for your time and for continuing to create my favorite podcast. I mean it's I'm not trying to flatter you guys. Lol. Anyway, let's get to the gray letter Dear Carly, Based on your interest in emotional, well paced stories, I'm seeking representation for my debut romance novel, Summers at blossom. Complete at 93,000 words told in dual timelines, readers of Carly Fortune's Every Summer after and Christina Lauren's Love and Other Words will devour the second chance romance set in the Midwest. After ending her engagement minutes before the wedding, Ruby Rhubarb Blossom runs to the one place she never thought she'd return to Blossom Manor, her estranged aunt's vineyard estate. Rather than return home and answer questions about why she left, Ruby strikes a deal with her aunt. She'll live on the quaint northern Michigan Peninsula for two months, but in return she must plan the 4th of July fundraiser for the vineyard. What should be an easy task proves more difficult when Ruby discovers Milo Anders, her first love to be the property manager and her right hand man in event planning. Forced to work closely together, they explore both new and familiar destinations reminiscent of past feelings and memories of teenage summers that Ruby wishes to forget. Eleven years prior and amidst her parents divorce, teenage Ruby is sent to stay with her aunt at Blossom Manor. What follows are four transformative summers spent exploring the peninsula and battling her feelings of abandonment. By spending time with the neighbor boy, Milo, he shows her the secret locations only locals know about and introduces her to a new group of friends. As years pass, Ruby can't deny that her summertime boy might be something more than just platonic friendship. As Ruby and Milo take the next step in their relationship Tragedy strikes. Suddenly, Milo finds himself motherless and Ruby believes she's to blame. So she runs back home with the intention of never returning to Blossom Manor or the boy who taught her to love. Eight years later, Ruby finds herself in her heart falling into familiar patterns. Only she's unsure whether Milo could ever forgive her for the night that ruined everything. With her family business relying on the success of the fundraiser, Ruby must stay on the peninsula for two months and decide whether to confront her past or leave it all behind once and for all. I'm an English major at Arizona State University. When I'm not writing, I can be found knitting, reading and binge watching reality television or working as a barista. Having grown up in Michigan, my love for Michigan Summers is ever growing and something worth sharing. Summersum is my first novel. I'm currently working on the next. Thank you for your time and consideration. May I send you the full manuscript? Best, Sarah.
- [05:07]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Carly. Okay, without that preamble part, what's the word? Can't they.
- [05:13]
Carly Waters
Sarah, let us know. It is 445 words, so definitely coming in on the long side there. Okay, let's get into it. So the comps, definitely bestseller comps, but I don't know if I'm making excuses for bestseller comps for this one with the like second chance romance going back to the small town situation on the beach. I mean, every summer after can work, but it's now a television show. So it's one of those things where it's like, you know, take it with a grain of salt in terms of the size of that comp. Christina Lawrence. I actually haven't read this particular book. One of my favorite romance novels is actually Christina Lauren's the Honeymooners. I love that book. But I haven't read this one, so I can't speak to this one in particular. So, you know, I'm giving them like, yeah, you know, I think they're okay. 93, 000 words long. Ish. You know, for romance, ideally, you know, it'd be more around like the 80,000 words, a little bit tighter. 93 is kind of long. The title, Summers at Blossom, it feels like we're missing something. Like Summer's at Blossom Creek, Summers at Blossom Dent. Like, I don't know, I just feel like Summers at Blossom, I didn't really do a lot for me. I don't know, it's kind of like it's fine, you know, again, it's fine. You know, if you feel like it's doing the job and you can't think of anything better, run with it. But I think it's just like, you know, potentially we could be doing better there. Okay? So for me, the main issue is the stakes seem very low. Even though it seems very sweet. Like, you know, she doesn't have to go to Blossom, man, or she chooses to go there and then happens to have to do this fourth of July fundraiser. Like, it's a lot of just, like, happenstance and it's tough, you know, and I like, the whole worlds collide with the, you know, teenage boyfriend situation. I think that's really sweet. It's a lot of just forced proximity in a way that I don't think is earned, and I find that a little bit challenging. I also feel like the setup here, I find it very chaotic and not very organized. Like, I think the idea is that we have, like, the present section, then we have the past section, and then we have the, like, why are these two storylines, you know, intertwined? And why do they deserve to be there? I think the intention is there. I don't think the execution is there because we end up having two paragraphs about the present, one paragraph about the past, and then there's kind of the section of, like, eight years later. You know, I think the heart of the novel is really at the end, which is kind of too bad. The whole tragedy strikes. Milo finds himself motherless. Ruby believes she's to blame. We don't know why, and then heads back home. Intention of never coming back and, you know, unsure whether Milo can ever forgive her for the night that ruined everything. But the thing about a story like this is that it's going to be about the yearning and the love on the page. Because even though if the heart of the question is, like, can a first love forgive tragedy? What's at stake if they don't end up together? Right. There's a million books about these. This concept of sliding doors. Like, what happens if I took this direction instead of that direction? What if I never went back to Blossom and, you know, never reunited with my past love? It's like, why do these two have to be together and we have to earn forced proximity? And I don't think we have yet. The stakes feel really buried. And I'm just. Yeah, I don't know. I'm just feeling like it's a bit chaotic. I'm not really clear on the way that we've organized the query almost. I don't really understand why it has to be four summers that we go back to. It says we go back four times does something happen really that's really important each year? And if so, do like, do we need to kind of know about it in the query letter or why can't it just be one summer? Because that's the summer that the tragedy strikes. Because I think that's why this manuscript length might be a bit bloated. Because if we go back four summers, like, what are we learning over these four summers that we can't just make like one summer, that jam packed year where all of this stuff happens. So that's kind of my, my gut take on this. I really want to like this. I think it's probably on like the sweeter side of romance, but we still need the stakes and I just haven't figured out where they are.
- [09:12]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Carly. Okay, Cece handing it across to you.
- [09:16]
Cece Lira
Okay, just a really quick note. That title should be in either all caps, like every single letter in all caps or italics. I personally prefer all caps, but both are fair game. You did use quotation marks. It is a very minor thing. You are not going to query letter jail. But it really does help with readability and sometimes the small tweaks can go a long way. I really appreciated the context of, you know, how many agents you query, the fact that you didn't necessarily get the response you were hoping for. And I'm trying to like, crack why based on the query letter first. We're going to talk about the pages in a minute. So because, because you gave us that context, I'm going to share an opinion. I think that the current unfolding of the plot in the query letter is reading a little bit choppy. I think you should separate it into two paragraphs. Paragraph number one, 2015, teenage Ruby. And then you can go into the plot and then paragraph two, 2026, after ending her engagement. And then you go into the plot and you have like two very distinct paragraphs where we learn about the protagonist's place in the world, the disruption, the inciting incident, and the stakes. I am fully aware this is much easier said than done, but. But that is the job, right? And right now you're going back and forth in the query letter, which to me is reading as a little choppy and distracting. And that might be a reason why you're not getting the response you want. Another thing to consider is right now the stakes are a little internal. This is very common in sweet romance novels and a lot of them can pull it off. To Carly's point, which I absolutely agree with. Whether or not we're into the story is Going to come down to the yearning on the page. Like, you have to create yearning on the page. So the query letter, however, that's not. That's not the query letter's job. No query letter has yearning on the page. So if I'm an agent and I'm reading this and I'm really looking for romance, right. I might go, hmm, internal stakes, a challenge. But if I'm looking for those kinds of story, I might still request. It'll depend on other factors, including the pages I actually kept. Kept expecting. This is my little terrorist of a brain that loves adding conflict to things. I kept expecting her ex to show up to complicate things, because I think that's a really good plot point to add because it helps to have a story where, you know, in the beginning, something happened with her first relationship. And of course, it's very dramatic. She walked out on him, or maybe they walked out on each other. She's wearing a wedding dress. And then she starts building this whole thing with Milo. Well, rebuilding, because they have their. Their past timeline, history. And then her ex shows up to complicate things further in to other complications. So I kept expecting that to happen. I'm not saying you should do that, but FYI, that's where my brain went. I'm like, I kept expecting that beat. I do think it's on the longer side. So, again, in addition to everything I'm saying, I would tighten
- [12:03]
Carly Waters
is one of
- [12:04]
Cece Lira
those things where you really want a short and snappy query letter when you just don't need that much world building. Because it is a very straightforward and sweet story. Thank you for sharing with us.
- [12:12]
Bianca Murray
Thank you. Cece, something that you said there, and what I really enjoyed about the beginning of this query letter is that the author gave us context. So we love the lovely words you say about us. As we said before, these are not necessary to get on the show. What I would love to see more at the top of your query letter is more of this context. Whether it's my beta readers don't get this, or I've tried to rewrite this however many times or whatever it is, because just giving us that kind of context allows us to really zone in on diagnosing where the issues might be. So for those of you who are considering submitting to the podcast, please feel free to include that context paragraph at the top. We will not consider it part of the word count. It just really helps guide, you know, what we're looking at. Okay, Carly, back to you. What was in the opening pages?
- [13:07]
Carly Waters
All right. So we start with our protagonist, who has escaped on her wedding day. Former wedding day, wedding day that didn't happen. She has her wedding dress on. She's driving away from the wedding towards Blossom Manor in the wedding dress itself. So she's been on the road for a while. She's getting frustrated about having to kind of drive in it. She's wiping her mascara all over the dress. And then she gets to the manor. It's empty because the aunt who owns the manor was at the supposed wedding. And so she's not there. She gets a message from her mother saying to call her. Her mother calls, and they have a bit of an interaction about, you know, my mom's probably just checking on me. And then the mom says, I'm not sure throwing yourself into a project is the best thing for you right now. The 4th of July event is a huge fundraiser for the vineyard. You know, are you sure you want to take on something like that? And so we kind of get the introduction of the party that she's going to have to deal with. And then she says that her. The mom says that the brother's on the way and she needs to go get the brother from the airport. And she still has the wedding dress on, and she's trying to, like, hack it off of her. The only other thing she's packed is the honeymoon clothes for Hawaii. So she's just kind of really out of sorts and on her way to get her brother.
- [14:19]
Bianca Murray
Okay, Carly, thank you. Right, give us your take on that.
- [14:23]
Carly Waters
All right, So I actually really like this concept of her driving in the wedding dress. I think that's a really fun opening. I'll read you a little bit of it. I can't get this stupid dress off. Only it isn't stupid. It's possibly the most beautiful dress I've ever worn and definitely the most expensive I've ever owned. And it was such a waste. It never made its debut down the aisle. Even worse, driving in a wedding dress is among my top three most annoying things. And then she kind of goes on to talk about other annoying things. I think the whole thing is pretty strong. I mean, potentially a stronger line could just be, driving in a wedding dress is among my top three most annoying things. But then you'd have to go into the listicle kind of after. So I like it, like, right away, you're like, why is she driving in a wedding dress? Usually a bride wouldn't drive themselves on the day. So your mind starts to go to all the places of, why would she be in A wedding dress. We obviously know. Anybody that's read Jack a copy in terms of a future reader will know the wedding didn't happen. So we're just kind of like, in the moment with her. I think in a way that the reader. Reader can really be there with her. We can imagine what it would be like to be in a wedding dress, be uncomfortable and having to drive and being upset and wiping our mascara all over our dress. So I really. I really liked that. So, okay, let's get to the actual book of it. One thing I think would be really important is really establishing what the place looks like. It seems like Blossom Manor is very important as a place. Almost seems very. Almost like a character in the story.
- [15:42]
Cece Lira
Right?
- [15:42]
Carly Waters
Like, there's a reason that they go back there. There's a. You know, there's a reason for it all. It's a family business. And I. I didn't of moment where we really just, like, took in what it looks like. Is it really quaint and small? Is it really big and expansive? I just wasn't able to even envision what it was actually like, and I really would have wanted to do that. I'm a little bit confused because in the query letter, it says that the ant is estranged and. Estranged from who? Because when we're in these opening pages, it's like, well, the aunt seems very close to everybody. The mom has been chatting with the aunt, and then she's at the aunt's house. So who is the aunt estranged from? I'm very unclear about that. I'm also not sure at all. And this really threw me for a loop why the mom is talking about the fundraiser. Like, I felt like, as a reader, I missed something. I was like, well, was I supposed to know? Like, should I go back and read a few more paragraphs up? You know, did I glaze over something? Why are we talking about the fundraiser? Like, is that really what the mom would say after her daughter ran away from the wedding? And presumably this is the first time she's talking to her mother after this happened. Or did the mom. Did they talk before she got in the car? Like, these are the things that my mind is kind of thinking about, because I just cannot imagine the first thing that a mom would say was, I'm not sure throwing yourself into the project is the best thing for you right now. And then she goes the 4th of July party, like. Like, as if none of this, like, broken engagement stuff, even, like, she literally ran away from the wedding. Is nobody concerned about who's paying the caterers how all the guests are going home, how to return all the gifts. And not that you have to do that whole, you know, thing on the page, but I'm just. It's a little bit confusing to me that we've moved on so fast from the actual wedding when it seems like it was really crucial to the situation of kind of getting her there. So all in all, it just feels really rushed. Just rushing the information to the reader in a way that kind of felt like a bit of a fire hose, where I'm like, what am I supposed to be taking in right now? You know, a line that says, I can't play in the 4th of July party? I could barely manage Blossom Wine Shop back home. Shouldn't the line be, I can. I can't plan the fourth of July party. I could barely plan my own wedding some, you know, something that, like, grounds us to the situation more than, like, just moving past it so fast, because I'm like, what's the point of her walking away from the wedding if we aren't actually going to address the emotions that got her to that mental state? So I just felt little unsure. I didn't really know the ground I was supposed to be standing on. And those are my thoughts.
- [18:13]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Carly. Before I hand across to cece, there's just two things that I just want to say about what you've just said. Saying the top three most annoying things is driving in a wedding dress that to me, intimates that this person has done this before now. So I was like, is this a runaway bride situation where she's driven in a wedding dress multiple times, and this is why it's in her top three most annoying things. So just something there to be aware of. And then also, I agree with Carly. We needed the mom to say something about, you know, did she leave the guy at the altar? Did he leave her at the altar? Like, and that can be used as a curiosity seed. You know, the mom can just say, whoever this guy's name is, is, you know, he. Whatever. Just give us something. You don't even have to give us a context. Just make us curious so that later when we find out what actually happened on the day, it feels like more of a. A payoff than anything else. Okay, cece handing it across to you.
- [19:15]
Cece Lira
Yeah. Building off that, I feel like her interiority, like, in addition to her mom not addressing it, the fact that she, you know, is with. Is wearing her wedding dress and not getting married when they spoke, her interiority isn't addressing it at all. And that's just not realistic to me. I don't think we think of her fiance once. And that's just not. I mean, not only is it not realistic, it's also not in your best interest because you really want the reader to connect with that protagonist and you want her to be experiencing messy emotions and messy thoughts, to Bianca's point, as curiosity seeds first. Right. Because that's just a smart way to leverage that. So it's not just a dialogue. It's also her. The access to her psyche that I don't think is reading. Right. I want to go back to the great paragraph of context that this writer gave us. At the start of the query letter, she mentioned that she didn't get the response she wanted when she queried. So she rewrote her pages because she had a theory that she might be starting in the wrong place. So this is something that's actually, like, I feel very strongly about. There are two different things to consider. One, yes, is starting in the right place that refers to the location in your story. The other is starting in the right way. You can get the place right, but get the way wrong. You can get the way right, but get the place wrong. The first is much more common than the second, the right place to start your story. Actually, right is the wrong word because the implication is that there's one right way and there's multiple best places to start a story, but one you know, the best place is always a moment that depicts your protagonist's current position in their world, not planet Earth, their little ecosystem, followed by a disruption. And that has to include the protagonist's reaction to the disruption. That then leads to a revelation of greater depth of existing power dynamics or change of existing power dynamics, which then should result in a shift in the protagonist's story, forward expectations. The best place to start your story, that is a separate thing, is one that honors the three C's connection, context, and curiosity. Right now, I cannot tell you whether this is the best place because the best way is not being honored. Like, there's. You are focusing way too much on, let me tell you, all the information. Like, it's context heavy, but it's not curiosity heavy, and it's definitely not connection heavy. Connection comes down to vulnerability, and she's not being vulnerable here. In fact, she's leaking the tension. I'll give you an example. She walks into Blossom Manor, and then we have a line that reads more so. I'm terrified to find out if Milo is still here. Unable to admit to myself that I hope he stayed frozen in time, awaiting my return. Realistically, he's moved on. This seems really on the nose because we know from the query letter that that is exactly what's going to happen. So the protagonist is kind of like, anticipating the thing, which I think makes me go, okay, well, clearly she doesn't care about this guy she left at the altar because she's not thinking about him, and she's already thinking about a different guy. So, like, I'm not feeling that vulnerability. I'm not feeling the messy emotions of, oh, my God, it's a big deal she left someone at the altar. It's not. It's not a big deal to her at all. So it's not a big deal to me, the reader. And two, she's anticipating the disruption. No, no, she should not be anticipating the disruption. She should be anticipating. Anticipating is a wonderful thing, but she shouldn't get it right, necessarily. So that, to me, is something that I just went. If it had been a query letter for me, I would not have requested. Not to be harsh, just to be honest here. Because of that reason, I would have been like, this author is still figuring out their story. I'll give you another example. We have a paragraph that talks about the different names she goes by. One person calls her Rue, another calls her Ruby. Third group calls her Barb. And then Milo has a special name for her as well. We get that information. That is context. Great. Where's the connection? The connection would be, okay, how does she feel about having different names to different people? Some people would be like, it's always given her a loose sense of her identity, always made her feel like she was never, you know, the same person to everyone. And that maybe bothers her. Maybe it gives her, like, conflicting emotions. Other people would be like that. They love that. They love that their names illustrate the multitudes they contain. Or something else. The point is giving me information without giving me how it makes her feel about herself, you know, how it's tied to her identity could be a missed opportunity. I think that at the heart of all of our notes is the following. You are pitching a story that relies on making the reader experience big emotions. Big emotions. Yearning, longing, desire, fear. And she's not experiencing big emotions at all in a scene that has a very strong setup because it is a person who is wearing her wedding dress, not at her wedding. You know, like, that is a strong setup. So. But you're not leveraging. So, yeah, I would. I would take a look at your pages once more.
- [24:03]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Cece, in those list of names. She did give one tiny context, which I really enjoyed. She said to her work colleagues. To her dismay, she is called Bob. And that part I really liked. Because sometimes you do get a nickname that you're like what the hell is this? And you don't feel like you can tell everyone, please don't call me that. So that was one bit of context. Something that I would just like to point out to the writer is what I suspect is that this book was first written in past tense and it was revised to be in present tense because there are a whole bunch of paragraphs that should be written in present tense that are actually in past. And you know, if you're writing in present tense, you really want that immediacy. But if you go from immediacy to distance, immediacy to distance, it can if
- [24:51]
Carly Waters
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- [26:04]
Bianca Murray
register for the next Beta Reader matchup with the Matchup emails going out on the 8th of September. As per usual, you'll be submitting 3000 words from your work in progress, and I'll be matching you up with writers in similar time zones and or genres. Many of the beta reader groups turn into writing groups with a lot of longevity, which is always marvelous. To see See. To sign up, go to my website Biancamarae Ca and go to the beta reader Matchup page. I look forward to matching. You can be a bit confusing. So and this is something I've experienced myself while writing, when I change things, when I've changed tenses and there's like bits that I forgot to change. So that's just from my personal experience. Look out for that. Okay, before we move on to our next query letter, first a word from our sponsors. Okay, cece, we're back. Can you please read us your query letter?
- [27:07]
Cece Lira
Dear Ms. Lira, I am excited to share my manuscript the Girl who Forgot Her Name an upmarket fiction complete at 99,000 words. In the story, the emotional turmoil of the luckiest girl alive meets the grit and growing pains of a girl within a girl within a girl and the redemption of sparks like stars. Based on your interests in bipoc stories with dysfunctional families, morally gray women and moral and ethical dilemmas, I believe this will interest you in Elite Princeton, New Jersey 23 year old Madison is living the American dream. Adopted From Nigeria at 13, the world sees a fully adjusted college student and face of her white parents Save a Child Foundation. But Madison is haunted by her past, or technically, the lack of one because she has no recollection of her life before adoption or even her birth name. But it's fine. No, really, it's all fine. Girls like her don't end up with perfect lives like this, so she spends her days being flawless and nights searching her drug fueled dreams for glimpses of her past. Enter Mario Koker, a Nigerian transfer student whose presence triggers memories Madison soon finds were intentionally suppressed by her parents. Now determined to find out who she is or who she was, when the Nigerian government starts a registry to help expatriate adoptees search for family members, she will embark on a journey that takes her from the white picket fences of Princeton, New Jersey to the sun kissed savannahs of Kebi, Nigeria, where she will finally learn the devastating circumstances that led to her adoption and decide whether gaining the life she left behind is worth sacrificing the life and family she has now. Phew. That was a very long sentence. I am a Nigerian American, passionate about stories that center the experience of African women both on the continent and in the diaspora. I Am a graduate of We Need Diverse Books, Black Creatives Revision Workshop, and an awardee of the Paraplus Fellowship. Under my pen name, I have short stories published in Porterhouse Review, I'll Magazine, and Afro Tondo. Thank you for your time. Redacted query word count 352.
- [29:20]
Bianca Murray
Awesome, Cece. Okay, give us your take on that.
- [29:24]
Cece Lira
Okay, again, readability. And this is a tiny, tiny thing, but it's. It actually will help everyone. Listening. Comp title should be in all caps or I'm going to say this again or italics. Don't do both. It affects readability. It could also affect formatting. I looked at your comps. The Luckiest Girl Alive obviously has great sales, but it is on the older side. And it's also like a really big. I don't know. I think it's too big for this. A girl within a girl within a girl. I could not find sales for this one. So I don't, like. I don't know what's happening there. Maybe my research skills are not great. Sparks like stars. I do not like saying this because I'm a huge fan of the Pearl that Broke Its Shell by the same author, Nadia Hashimi, but perhaps find a different comp. Because this one doesn't have stellar sales. I feel sad that it doesn't have stellar sales, at least according to bookscan. The plot. I have very little sense of how the plot escalates. Like, I have very, very little sense. But I'm in because the premise seems really cool and the family dynamics are messy, and I have a. I just. I'm just curious to know more. Which is proof that sometimes you don't follow, like, the formulaic query ladder. Sometimes you don't necessarily add things like the plot escalation, but it doesn't matter because, like, you got someone to feel curiosity, and curiosity at the end of the day is what matters most. So I'm in. The premise is so strong. The inciting incident is so strong. So I'm like, yes, I want to know. I would again, if this were in my inbox. I would be scrolling to read and devour the pages. Because you did your job. Like, you've. You've made me curious. So congratulations.
- [30:58]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Cece. Okay. Carly, were you equally curious?
- [31:02]
Carly Waters
Absolutely. My. My main issue with that first paragraph is the number of times the word girl is mentioned. Like, I. I don't love our title. The Girl who Forgot Her Name, Number one. It sounds a little. It sounds a bit young. You know, the word girl. And we've had so Many books over the years with the word girl in them, you know, between your comps and your title, the word girl is mentioned 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 times. That's a lot of times. So I don't know, it's just. It comes off a little bit clunky all in one paragraph. And I don't think the title is, you know, the best one we could possibly ever go with. So I would suggest looking at the title, the things in brackets. You know, you have like, quote, dysfunctional families, end quote. I think just because you're quoting Cece, but I don't think you need to have the quotes there just because those are things that people like. And even though you're quoting Cece, it just. It just seemed like a lot of quotes. So I don't know, maybe that's just me, but I think we just didn't need to kind of clutter up the paragraph with the quotation marks. Interesting word choice there. With the night searching her drug fueled dreams, right? Because we're like, well, is it self imposed? Or like, what kind of drug? Or is that just like a metaphor for how she's feeling? But all in all, like, it sounds really interesting. I don't have a ton of notes. I agree with Cece. It does its job. And I say this all the time on the show. Sometimes a query letter just does its job and we don't have to nitpick it to death. You know, if this came across the right agent at the right time, they would definitely read it and I would definitely keep reading. So, you know, if there's anything. Take Cece's advice and try to build out that plot escalation about what actually happens in the book. But consider. Two agents hooked.
- [32:38]
Bianca Murray
Yay. Fold the alt, though. Okay, Cece, we're handing it back to you. What was in the pages.
- [32:45]
Cece Lira
I have to get a celebratory hat because I have my Grinch hat for when I'm being mean. But I need, like, a party hat. Like a cool party hat that doesn't hurt my chin. Party hats always have that annoying string. Okay, here's what happens in the pages. Our protagonist is speaking in front of a packed ballroom. She is in control. She is looking into, you know, the audience. Also looking to the news camera that's there. And she's talking about the work her family does. And she says things like, for those of you at home, no, you do not need to adjust your television. I am indeed black. And she pauses because she knew laughter would follow. And laughter does follow. Corner of her eye, though, she sees a woman who is, like, cutting up steak, you know, in a very, like, noisy, disruptive fashion. Everyone else has either finished their dinner or has been respectful enough to not be, you know, doing that while she's speaking. And so we. We have her. Her speech interspersed with observations and interiority and movement. And she talks about how her dad is an award winning photojournalist, and someone interrupts and says, and soon to be mayor of Princeton. And she goes, yes, exactly. And she talks about how her dad found her in her village and decided to adopt her. And then she met her mom. And she knows. She says, my parents are determined to help other kids, too, so please donate to this beautiful cause. And she finishes her speech by, you know, asking this really, like, heartfelt question, like, does anyone out there even care? And look softly into people's eyes very intentionally. And then her interiority goes, bingo. Because she can see that, you know, she got people to listen to her message. So again, we can see the control and the intentionality in her words. And we can also see the performance she is putting on. Not to say that it's fake, but just to say that, you know, there is that great distinction between interiority and projection. And then she leaves the stage, and people are like, oh, my gosh, your parents must be so proud. That was so powerful. The steak lady gives her a hug, she leaves the ballroom, and then she gets a piece of the steak that she stole from the steak lady and then, like, eats it, gobbles it up. Then she gets a text message that says, where are you? And she shoots a text back. I'm outside. Meet me at the Carp. That is what we know.
- [34:58]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Cece. I really loved the surprise of her stealing that steak. I must be honest, that surprise there was awesome. Okay, what is your take on the pages?
- [35:08]
Cece Lira
100% agree. The surprise was awesome. I think the pages are really, really strong. I think this is. Yeah, again, very. I want to make this clear. The pages are very strong. You've done an amazing job. I think you could tweak it a little bit to make it even more amazing. But there's a difference between, like, this isn't working and you need to work on it, and this is working really well. And, hey, I'm going to give you notes to make it even better if they resonate with you. So we have her in control as she's delivering the speech, being very intentional about how her words are perceived. I love that. But I am not sensing any strong or messy emotions. For example, when she puts on what she calls the Wakanda esque accent, how does that make her feel? You know, is it something that bothers her? Does she find it humiliating? Does she find it annoying? Does she think that she's winning at the own game people created? Does she think something else? Like, where are the messy emotions? Same with when she says bingo. In her mind, I wanted, like, does she feel powerful in that moment? You know, I wanted framework of the first time she did the speech and how green she was to now, and she's an expert. I wanted a sense of anticipation of how she'll be rewarded for this, assuming she will be, or the fact that she wished she were going to be rewarded for this, but she never is, or whatever else is still to come. When she thinks about the kids and she talks about the kids, the kids that, you know, she was one of those kids once upon a time, is she thinking about them as she goes, you know, I encourage you to donate. Is she thinking that her parents will be pleased with her? I guess I wanted more depth and more access to her psyche. When someone says, your parents must be so proud of you, like I, I guess, are they, in her view, how does it make her feel? How does hearing these words make her feel? Growing up, especially kids who are known as golden children but have way more going on in their interiority, they hear that all the time. Your parents must be so proud. And often actually what they feel is rage and anger. Like, you know, sometimes it's rage that people expect people to be grateful. And I'm not saying that would be her emotions, but I definitely think she would have messy emotions because that's, that's, that's just how human beings are. She just responds, thank you. You know, when people says it was powerful. But how does she take in the words? I wanted to see her take in the words. I just wanted more depth, including when she is alone and she takes the stake, which, yes, I loved. I took a look at the luckiest girl alive, the beginning. And I actually recommend that you do that. I recommend that you read the first page. Honestly, even the first page will be enough because she actually has a. The author has a not similar beginning, but like a beginning where the protagonist is looking at naive and you know, is saying one thing but thinking another. Like, you have that great difference. And there are so many messy emotions woven in with like the few words, only a few words. She feels panic, she feels alert, she feels anger. She thinks of stabbing the man like I wanted her to think of stabbing the Steak lady. You know, like, like as a thought, as a scary thought, how the word husband lands on her. That's in the Luckiest Girl Alive too. So I guess if you take a look at your comps, and this is something I recommend all authors do, like, take a look at the beginning of your comps and map out the emotions there, especially the messy emotions, and then take a look at the emotions in your manuscript. I am not saying they have to match at all, but I am saying it's an interesting exercise to be aware of the level of emotionality you're delivering versus the level of emotionality that your comps are delivering. At the end of the day, people think of comps as like, like, how do I find a great comp? People comp something because of the setting. People comp something because of the dual timeline. And these are not bad reasons to comp. But when someone says, oh, my gosh, if you loved Lady Tremaine, you have to read insert, I'm expecting that that new book is going to deliver the same emotional experience as Lady Tremaine. Like, that's just the expectation when people talk about comps, because emotions are the data that sell a book, which is what makes this thing so subjective. So I strongly recommend taking a look at that beginning because it'll really, really help you elevate your pages even further.
- [39:07]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Cece. Yeah, I agree about that interiority and especially the pride comment. You know, when, when the woman goes, your parents must be so proud. It feels to me like their pride is transactional because they're proud of her, because she is doing this for them, making them money and making them look good, you know, And I feel like there is a part of her that would kind of know that even at the beginning, like, even if it's just a thought. Yes, they're very proud when, when I earn the money or whatever. So, yeah, that, that messiness there, I'd also like to see come out. Okay. Carly handing it across to you.
- [39:44]
Carly Waters
Yeah, I think those are great notes. As always. Cece brings such intelligent discourse to our conversation. I always appreciate her thoughts. For me, it was like the pacing of that interiority and the, the places that she chose to actively put it in and actively leave it out. Because when I got to the line of, like, I thought I knew where we were going, where, like the self awareness, I'm trying to say, I guess I, I, I knew that she was self aware to a certain extent. And I was really trying to figure out how self aware is. She is this first time she's doing this presentation, and then I'm like, oh, no, clearly, like she's got this on locked. And then there's the line of. As always, my chest tightened at the sight of it, meaning the picture of herself. I adverted my gaze back to the steak lady, who, despite the grim picture, was now tearing into her golden hasselback potato, the bechamel sauce giving her lips a creamy shine. You know, the way that she was able to kind of take in the whole room. And that, like, amount of emotional maturity I thought was just fascinating and made her a really interesting character. And then we get to the line about I put on my best Wakanda esque accent. And then I felt that like, like that was really tough to read because, like, clearly this is such a performance that she's doing for this primarily white audience. And then when we didn't get her interiority on that, I was like, okay, so how. I wasn't exactly sure how she wanted me to feel. But then again, as we read on, I'm like, okay, I can, you know, I understand that she's very in control of the situation and I agree with Cece. I'd love to know, like, where she felt power throughout the pace of this, because I just wasn't always clear about what I was supposed to feel. But then I was thinking and reflecting on it, like, I think the unsettledness is part of the book. And so, you know, you can take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt and please do. Because if you want the reader to feel unsettled about how much self awareness she has or how much power that she thinks she has, I think you're doing a great job. So by no means do I think you need to spell all of this out. Just know that there were parts that felt unsettled and that's good, you know, And I think the writing is really strong. You know, I highl paragraph these guys did about, you know, leaving and grabbing that. That piece of steak and, and yeah, I just, I thought it was really, really well done. I don't have any major notes as far as I can tell. This is a great place to start.
- [41:55]
Bianca Murray
Thank you, Carly. Right, so for those of you who are wanting to submit two books with hooks, you can do so on our website. The shit about writing, again, that context, bit of information. Like, we're not asking for a synopsis here, people. We're asking for a few lines of context. But also, if you go, I'm not sure I'm starting in the right place. It might even be helpful to say before I started, actually, at the wedding, for example, talking about the first query I started as she was walking down the aisle. And now this is where I'm starting just to just to contextualize things for us a bit more. All right, so next week we have our author interview, and in two weeks we're back with another book. Sort of books. Bye, everyone. Cece Lira is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates. If you'd like to query CeCe, please refer to the submission guidelines at www.wsherman.com. carly Waters is a literary agent at P.S. literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency, and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS Literary Agency.