Can An Agent Picture a Movie Trailer After Reading Your Query Letter?

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Can An Agent Picture a Movie Trailer After Reading Your Query Letter?"

Release Date: December 26, 2024
Podcast: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Waters, CeCe Lyra

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Introduction

In this episode of "The Shit No One Tells You About Writing," host Bianca Marais is joined by literary agents Carly Waters and CeCe Lyra from P.S. Literary Agency. The episode delves into the nuanced art of crafting effective query letters, examining whether agents can visualize a movie trailer based solely on a writer's query. The discussion is anchored by their regular segment, Books with Hooks, where they critique query letters and opening pages submitted by emerging writers.

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Books with Hooks: First Query Letter Review

Query Letter Overview

"Savage Daughters" is a women's historical fantasy novel pitched by an emerging author. The manuscript spans 106,000 words and weaves a tale set in ancient Ireland, featuring two sisters, Eru and Banba, destined to protect their kingdom from invaders. The query encapsulates elements of mythology, family saga, and the early beginnings of patriarchy.

CeCe Lira’s Feedback

At [04:31], CeCe commends the author for effectively packing essential information into the first paragraph but notes areas needing refinement:

• World-Building vs. Character Focus: CeCe advises against starting with extensive world-building, recommending a focus on protagonists to foster reader connection.
• Plot Specificity: The critique highlights vagueness in plot details, questioning the nature of the sacrifices the sisters must make and the specifics of their vengeful paths.
• Emotional Depth: CeCe emphasizes the need for deeper emotional engagement, suggesting the author infuses more vulnerability and internal conflict within the characters.

A notable quote from CeCe at [08:50]:

“The choice must be clear and must be very specific. It can't be decide how much they're willing to sacrifice without me having any idea what that sacrifice looks like.”

Carly Waters’ Insights

At [08:54], Carly echoes CeCe’s sentiments, emphasizing the importance of uniqueness in the query's dramatic question:

• Avoiding Clichés: Carly advises making the sacrifice premise unique to distinguish the book from others with similar themes.
• Plot Over Themes: She stresses that while themes are important, plot details drive a query's effectiveness. Listing themes without showcasing their manifestation in the story diminishes the query's impact.

At [20:06], Carly adds:

“Themes don't sell books. Plot sells books.”

Bianca Marais’ Observations

Bianca praises the author's bio section for effectively conveying the author's connection to the subject matter, stating:

“Even if you don't have a ton of qualifications, just listing your connection to the work is so important.”

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Books with Hooks: Second Query Letter Review

Query Letter Overview

"Redacted" is a 114,000-word debut historical novel set in 1930s Hawaii. It narrates the intertwined lives of Rose Payne, a military wife, and PUA Tiaposo, a hula dancer, against the backdrop of racial tensions and the Massey rape and murder trials. The story explores themes of friendship across cultures and the impact of racially motivated crimes within the community.

Carly Waters’ Feedback

At [24:50], Carly addresses the length and clarity of the query:

• Length Consideration: At 497 words, the query is slightly lengthy, though not uncommon for complex historical narratives.
• Dual POV Clarity: She questions the clarity of the dual points of view, pondering whether they are equally represented.
• Historical Alignment: Carly inquires about the query’s alignment with historical facts, suggesting that the author clarify the novel’s connection to actual events.

A memorable quote from Carly at [27:39]:

“If you have to read something more than once, especially your opening pages, then they're not doing the job.”

CeCe Lira’s Insights

At [26:42], CeCe lauds the clear plot but notes the imbalance in character focus:

• Character Arc Equality: CeCe points out that Rose dominates the narrative, suggesting equal weight for PUA’s storyline to honor the dual POV structure.
• Prologue Effectiveness: She critiques the prologue for being confusing and suggests integrating tension within chapter one instead of relying on a separate prologue.

At [38:25], CeCe emphasizes the importance of tone consistency:

“Storytelling is seduction and seduction is a form of manipulation. The reader shouldn't feel manipulated; it should feel effortless and seamless and like magic.”

Bianca Marais’ Commentary

Bianca shares a personal anecdote regarding the challenges of prologues in novels, underscoring the importance of clarity and engagement from the outset. She reinforces the agents' feedback, highlighting the necessity for a strong, singular beginning to captivate readers immediately.

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Concluding Remarks

The episode underscores the critical elements of crafting compelling query letters: clarity, emotional depth, plot specificity, and the effective portrayal of dual perspectives. Bianca, Carly, and CeCe provide invaluable insights, emphasizing that a well-constructed query can indeed allow agents to visualize the story vividly, akin to imagining a movie trailer.

Bianca concludes with encouragement for writers to continuously refine their craft, reminding them of the importance of maintaining reader engagement from the very first sentence.

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Notable Quotes

• CeCe Lira [04:31]:
  “The choice must be clear and must be very specific. It can't be decide how much they're willing to sacrifice without me having any idea what that sacrifice looks like.”

• Carly Waters [20:06]:
  “Themes don't sell books. Plot sells books.”

• Carly Waters [27:39]:
  “If you have to read something more than once, especially your opening pages, then they're not doing the job.”

• CeCe Lira [38:25]:
  “Storytelling is seduction and seduction is a form of manipulation. The reader shouldn't feel manipulated; it should feel effortless and seamless and like magic.”

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Final Thoughts

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for emerging writers seeking to navigate the complexities of query letter writing. Through detailed critiques and expert advice, Bianca Marais, Carly Waters, and CeCe Lyra equip writers with the tools necessary to craft queries that not only convey their story effectively but also captivate and intrigue literary agents from the outset.

Transcript

[Bianca Marais]

Omg. Have you seen the Deep Dive Virtual retreat lineup for the 1st and 2nd of February? It's incredible. Gatekeepers galore. As well as the authors who managed to get past them, we've got the editors and agents who worked on phenomenal projects like Station 11, Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, Crazy Rich Asians, the Flight Attendant, Maame Wayward, the Wife Upstairs, the Tinder Swindler, Big Little Lies, the Perfect Couple, the Other Black Girl, and so much more. The presentation topics are brilliant, so practical and valuable regardless of where you are in your writing journey. One of our speakers, the brilliant Annabel Monaghan, who wrote the best selling Nora Goes Off Script, was a delegate at the very first Deep Dive Retreat and now she's kicking butt all over the place coming back to present. That could be you one day. Those of you who take part in the Thousand Words of Summer will also be super excited to see the fabulous Jamie Attenberg in the lineup as well. Trust me, you do not want to miss this. Head to our website theshitaboutwriting.com go to the deep Dive page to see more information and to register. We hope to see you there.

[Carly Waters]

Foreign.

[Bianca Marais]

Hi there and welcome to our show the Shit no One Tells you About Writing. I'm Bianca Marais and I'm joined by Carly Waters and Cece Lira from PS Literary Agency. We'll be kicking off today's episode with our usual Books with Hooks segment, after which we'll go to today's guest. Hi everyone, welcome back to another Books With Hooks. As always, we are going to dive straight in. See, Cece is kicking us off with the first query letter.

[Cece Lira]

Dear Cece, thank you for all the amazing advice you offer on the Shit no One tells you About Writing. It's with great excitement that I bring you this query letter. Savage Daughters is a women's historical fantasy novel at 106,000 words in which two sisters are fated to defend their kingdom from power hungry invaders and must ultimately decide how much they're willing to sacrifice to save their people and each other. Set in ancient Ireland, this duo POV family saga includes elements of mythology and ancient history. Circe meets the last Kingdom. This one is for Fans of Jennifer St. Catherine Arden, Juliet Mariller and lovers of Celtic culture. In 2200 BCE the women of ancient Ireland are guardians of the sacred, devoted to the great goddesses who sustain all of life. Yet in the changing of ages, as war chiefs arrive on the shores of Ireland hungry for spoils and conquest, the sacred ways of women are at risk of being fractured and broken forever. Eru, a priestess, and Banba, a warrior, are daughters of the Royal Horse Clan. Burdened with the same gift that drove her father to madness, ERU is haunted by visions of her people's doom and conceals her gift of prophecy. Meanwhile, Bonba dreams of being initiated as a warrior and fighting against the power hungry invaders determined to protect her kingdom and her people. When Banba is given the chance to prove herself, her survival comes with a price that sets her on a vengeful path. As the threat of the invaders grows, ERU must reveal her secret and wield her gift to protect the people she loves. Bound by blood and fate, the sisters must summon all of their strength to fight against the dark forces that threaten them. But it's no easy thing to be fated. Chosen by the goddesses to defend an uncertain future, and they must ultimately decide how much they're willing to sacrifice to save their people, their way of life, and each other. A tale of love, family, war, romance, revenge, loss and betrayal. A reimagining of Ireland's ancient origin and mythic history. Exploring the early beginnings of patriarchy I've run online courses for women about myths and traditions from Ireland and Britain for the past five years. I have an Instagram following of 60,000 followers who follow my work in this area as the subject matter aligns with my content and teachings. Thank you for your consideration.

[Carly Waters]

Tara.

[Cece Lira]

Braiding.

[Bianca Marais]

Awesome Cece. Thank you. Okay, what was our word count there and what was your take on that?

[Cece Lira]

Okay, the word count. This one came in at 409 words. The first paragraph is doing so much like it was. So impressive how the author met pack everything that we needed in there. So really great job. I want to talk about the plot paragraphs. As our listeners could hopefully tell, it starts with the world. You know, it starts with in 2200 BCE the women of ancient Ireland are guardians of the sacred, etc. Etc. I don't recommend beginning fantasy and or historical fiction with world building. You will be tempted to do so because the world is so important. So you'll be like let me establish the world. I feel like it's better to start with the protagonist, go from micro to macro and not the other way around because as humans we don't connect and imprint with concepts or worlds. We connect to people. And so I think it's really important to focus on the protagonist. Your second plot paragraph does that by establishing the dual protagonists and so we know exactly who they are and what their burdens are, emotionally speaking. But then we get to the third plot Paragraph, which is all about, you know, what happens in the story. I am not getting enough specificity there. So we have. Bonba is given the chance to prove herself, but her survival comes with a price that sets her on a vengeful path. What does that mean? Seriously? I have no clue. I'm like, okay, so she has the chance to prove herself, given that she wants to be a warrior. I can imagine what that looks like.

[Carly Waters]

But.

[Cece Lira]

But, like, what is the price that sets her on eventual path? I don't know. I truly have no idea. Like, is the price she's paying like a limb? Is it like, the love of her life? Is it. I don't know. She has to corrupt her morality. I don't know what that is. And what does a vengeful path looks like? Who is she trying to get revenge on and why? And then we move to eru, the second protagonist, and we have a line that reads, she must reveal her secret and wield her gift to protect the people she loves. I do know what the secret is, but, like, in what way is she wielding her gift to protect the people she loves? And after she reveals the secret, is she threatened in any way? Because I feel like she probably would be given that. Her father, I believe, also had that same gift. And anyway, I just needed more clarity. So all of these plot lines culminate into the major dramatic question, which reads, they must ultimately decide how much they're willing to sacrifice to save their people, their way of life, and each other. Most major dramatic questions involve a choice, and that is great. It is a very compelling way of framing a story's climax. But the choice must be clear and must be very specific. It can't be decide how much they're willing to sacrifice without me having any idea what that sacrifice looks like. Like I said, are we talking about one sister sacrificing the other? Are we talking about sacrificing a child? Are we talking about sacrificing, I don't know, like, her position of power. What are they sacrificing? I empathize with the author so much because historical is hard, fantasy is hard. This person is doing both. So, like, you have a big challenge here. So again, lots of empathy, lots of sensitivity. I just don't think that you're doing your story justice by starting in the way that you're starting and ending in the way that you're ending. I would very much revise the entry point into this query letter. And the major dramatic question, I think. I suspect that you don't want to Give away too much because you're like, I don't want to reveal my story spoilers. Now, please know that no one is more allergic to spoilers than me, but we do need actual plot points leading up to the climax. Like, we need those dominoes tipping over effect, to use Bianca's great term, because that will keep us invested. The best way to learn how to do this is to go to the novels that you love, the ones that are your comps, especially debuts. It's very important to look at debut debut authors and check out the pitch copy and check out, you know, how much of the plot was revealed then. And when in doubt, write out the whole thing, even with the terrible spoilers, and then cut. Right. Like, it's easier to cut than it is to add usually. So good luck.

[Bianca Marais]

Thank you, Cece. Okay, Kali, your thoughts?

[Carly Waters]

All right, so a couple notes for the first paragraph, which is the line that says, must ultimately decide how much they're willing to sacrifice to save their people and each other. I mean, this is a very familiar line for a lot of books, so I would try to figure out a way to make that one unique to you. When I see a line like that, I worry, because then I worry if the author can't convey what the special thing is about their book, how am I supposed to know the special thing about their book? And is there a special thing about their book?

[Cece Lira]

Right.

[Carly Waters]

This is your first paragraph, your first opportunity to give us this information. Right. So super, super important that I know little bit more about what's at stake and what is specifically unique about your book. All right, So, I mean, I agree with Cece's take that. I think we. We need to focus a little bit less about the world to start off with, because what ends up happening is it's a lot of factual information, and we need a little bit of plot infused in these moments as well. My last question is the list of themes at the bottom. A tale of love, family, war, romance, revenge, loss, and betrayal. These are all super interesting things, but lot of people on the show have heard me say this before, which is, themes don't sell books. Plot sells books. So I want to know what is specific about these themes and how they show up in plot. I don't want you to list me themes. I want you to tell me what happens to make these themes be realized. One of these on the list, I had no idea was, you know, in the book at all, which it said love. And I said, okay, where, like, in the romance, I'm like, where's the romance between who? I couldn't figure that piece out. And to me, like, fighting for love is like one of the, the most timeless plot points of all time. I mean, you know, it's inspired wars, it's inspired, you know, generations of films and books and tv, music, everything, right? So the fact that if love and romance is a theme that's just listed very important, that we would have the love story showing up in the actual plot itself. So I know how hard it is to sum up an entire book, especially a world building book, in one page. I absolutely understand that. But to me, romance and love is something you never want to neglect in a query letter.

[Bianca Marais]

Thank you, Carly. Something that I do want to point out is I think that author bio paragraph was really awesome and why they're writing about it because I know you are often saying, you know, even if you don't have a ton of qualifications, just listing your connection to the work is so important. And I think they did a really incredible job there. Okay, Cece, we're now going to ask you to please summarise what's in those opening pages.

[Cece Lira]

So Bonba is practicing fighting when her mom, who is a warrior, shows up and tells her that the warriors are preparing for departure. And then she tells her mom she's already packed. She lies about not being nervous and she wants to make her mom really proud. We have a second scene where they are riding into the borderlands, they being Bonba and the rest of the warriors, including her mom and her family. And her family's teasing her. They come across a king and queen and a young hunter is a little hostile towards Bonba, but she controls her temper and they settle by a roaring fire.

[Bianca Marais]

Great, Cece, thank you. Okay, do you feel like the opening pages are doing the heavy lifting, doing world building, setting the tone, getting us engaged with the characters?

[Cece Lira]

I feel like I have to buy the Grinch hat. So whenever I have to be mean to people, I'll put on my Grinch hat and you know, at least I'll be like showing self awareness that I sound really mean. You're not starting in the right place. You're not. She's alone, you know, practicing fighting. When her mom shows up, that's a disruption. But then her conversation with her mom is not doing the heavy lifting. I'll tell you why. One her mom asks, her mom tells her that the warriors are preparing for departure. She has already prepared, right? Like she's the outlier. Does the fact that she is over prepared make her feel proud? Is she hoping It'll make her mom feel proud. Is she worried that she'll come across as anxious and amateurish? Something else? I don't know. Why don't I know? Because we didn't get enough emotionality, at least not to my taste. Two, her mom asks her, you know how she's feeling. She lies. I love that. But we don't get any extra things on why she lies. And also, the fear that she's feeling is not calibrated in a way that is believable because fear comes first and then thought, like it's never thought. And then fear. Fear is a visceral emotion. Visceral emotion always comes first. I like that she wants to make her mom proud. I like that she wants to make the ancestors proud. But this is framed in a very factual, non emotional way. And it's not messy. It's supposed to be messy. She has been dreaming of this day for her whole life. What happens when someone has been dreaming of any event for the entirety of their lives is that they feel messy, layered, seemingly contradictory emotions. They are going to feel excitement and they're going to be looking forward to it, but they're also going to be terrified. And they're going to be surprised by the fact that they're terrified. Because if I've been waiting my whole life for this, why am I terrified? And then they might start having second thoughts. And they might, you know, kind of start, like, discussing with themselves, like, why are you having second thoughts? Like, you just will a normal. Not a normal, but like a human. Any human is going to have very messy, messy emotions at a time like this. And so it's very sweet that she wants to make her mom proud, but I need to know more. I need emotions that go beyond the surface level. Still, in the conversation with her mom, you know, her mom tells her like, that. Her mom starts essentially telling her what her job is going to be. Now, I am sure this is not the first time her mom is saying this to her. A, because the protagonist didn't register surprise, but also B, because it's not realistic. So how does she react to her mom telling her something she already knows? Is she going, mom, why aren't you telling the other warriors that? Why is it just me? Like, do you think I'm inept? Is she annoyed? Is she insecure? Is she, like, thankful that her mom is. Is giving her extra advice? I don't know. Right? So if she's trying to fill someone's shoes, and she clearly is, then her psyche needs to be a lot Messier, a lot deeper, a lot more vulnerable than it currently is. It's just not working in the way that it's supposed to. Okay, so then we go to the second scene. You are doing a much better job at the vulnerability in the second scene. In the second scene, my notes are go deeper, but at least you're going there. Like, we have her family teasing her, and so that's great because it does show her vulnerability. But then I want more depth. And I did prompt you with a few questions that you might find helpful in digging deeper into your protagonist's psyche. There is a second reference to her not doing the same thing that the group is doing. So there's a reference to the warriors preparing. And then she's already prepared in the very first scene. And in the second scene, you have a line that reads, bonba's kin jested and made idle conversation. But she's not a part of any of that. So is that intentional? Is it intentional? Like, do you want to show us that she doesn't belong? And if so, how does she feel? Does she feel left out? Does she feel special? Does she feel something else? There's a part where her amulet, which she got from her grandmother, thrums, and it only does that when danger is near. But then we don't get fear. And I feel like if she trusts the talisman, she would be afraid, and she would be, like, considering what to do. Should she warn people? Or maybe people can see the talisman, but I don't think so. I think she's the only one who can sense the thrumming. And so I wanted clarity on that. I just essentially kept highlighting a whole bunch of instances and being like, hey, can you give me more? These are the questions I have, and you needn't answer all the questions, but, like, give me a little bit more, because I need to feel like she's a fully developed character. I need to feel like she's a real person. I need to feel like, you know, if I were out in the real world, I could potentially run into her, and I would know who she is, and I would be able to predict her behaviors in various different situations. Another example of this is when she's meeting the king and queen. I didn't get any interiority clocking in her expectations with the reality. And that's just how life works, you know? Like, if, you know you're going on a journey and you're gonna meet a king and a queen, you imagine what they look like. You think of the stories you've heard. About them. And maybe they look different, maybe they look the same. Maybe, you know, something is surprising. You know, towards the end of the scene, you have the part where the warrior is hostile towards her and she has to control her temper. And I like that. I like that she had to, like, rein herself in because it shows a big difference between her behavior and her interiority. And that's always great. But we have no theories on why he's acting that way. And no, like, planning, like, what she'll do next. And I kind of wanted that. I kind of wanted more interiority. So essentially my notes are give me more, give me more, give me more. Which is a great place to start. I know that any author who submits to the podcast is looking for ways that they can elevate their story. And so for me, the way to elevate your story here is to rethink where you're starting. Either really, really add more depth to that conversation with her mom or start in the part where she's already in the borderlands and go deeper, go deeper in both scenes because it's just, you know, me. Wanting more is a great sign, but it's also a sign that there's still work to be done.

[April Cordo Wright]

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[Carly Waters]

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[April Cordo Wright]

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[Bianca Marais]

Thank you, Cece. Okay, Carly, what have you got to add to that?

[Carly Waters]

All right, so what I have to add is I. I really liked the world, and I think you did a great job. Just on a line level, I don't know, I felt like. I think this was just a really compelling, you know, time period and everything like that. I really like that part. I think the thing that was tripping me up a bit was that she sounded young. And there's nothing always wrong with somebody sounding young. But then I'm like, okay, why does she maybe sound a bit more coming of age? And then I was thinking, well, this was set a really long time ago, and age span, you know, lifespans were shorter, and so warriors would have been younger. And so I had to kind of, I don't know, do a little bit of, like, mental gymnastics around her age. And so I don't know if there, you know, it requires an explanation of exactly how old she is in the context of. Of, you know, their. I don't know, their. Their group or something like that. But I don't know, I think there's just something there to be discovered a little bit in terms of if she is coming of age, there should be a lot of interiority about how she is feeling within her position within the group and things like that, or why she's deferring to her mom or why she wants to rebel against her mom. Because again, if it is that she, you know, she's, you know, a younger teen or something like that, then there's the question of, like, is this YA historical why or why not? Or if it is adults, then it's coming of age and it has to be a bit more literary. And so I don't know. As I said, I do a lot of mental gymnastics because my job as an agent is thinking about how I can sell something and so I have to know how to kind of package something in a way that it is understandable to me, would be understandable in my pitch letter and so on and so forth. So I think a lot about characters, ages and how they're portrayed within the context of what we're trying to accomplish within the book. And I just had a bit of I had a lot of questions about how old she was and what she's trying to accomplish.

[Bianca Marais]

Great, Carly. Thank you so much to you both for for that assessment. We're now moving on to our second query letter. Will you please read that for us?

[April Cordo Wright]

Kali Dear Ms.

[Carly Waters]

Waters, your podcast with Bianca Marae Cece Lira has not only been an invaluable craft resource, but a source of weekly inspiration to get my novel written. For your dedication to the writer community and generosity with your knowledge, I sincerely thank you and your co hosts. Because of your interest in stories that spark cultural dialogue, I would love for you to consider redacted, my 114,000 word debut historical novel about a privileged military wife in a Hawaiian hula dancer whose unlikely friendship is tested when two racial crimes fracture 1930s territorial Hawaii. Written in dual point of view against the backdrop of the historic Massey rape and murder trials, Redacted tackles the theme of friendship across divided culture, similar to when the Apricots Bloom by Gina Wilkinson, as well as the impact of racially motivated crime within a community in David Joy's those We Thought We Knew, it would appeal to readers of Hula by Jasmine Olani Hackeys for its immersive treatment of an overlooked event in Hawaiian history. Newlywed Rose Payne is determined to be the perfect military wife as she follows her husband to Hawaii, but instead finds herself struggling with unfamiliar expectations and growing isolation. At the urging of Talia Massey, her volatile neighbor and fellow Navy spouse, Rose joins a hula class taught by 19 year old PUA Tiaposo, who is compelled to share her beloved hula with indifferent white women as she supports her family. Burdened by her own traumatic secret, Pua bitterly resents the heols who have taken over her island. The last thing Pua expects from Rose is a genuine love for hula and willingness to understand her island home. Conscious of social expectations, Rose tries to hold the two parts of her life separate. But those worlds collide the night a severely beaten Talia tells Rose that something terrible has happened. Talia accuses five local men of raping her and they are immediately put on trial, including Pua's boyfriend, Joe Kahawai. Rose is drawn to the ensuring vortex of white outrage even as she begins to question the truth of Talia's story. The court declares a mistrial, igniting Rachel, violence towards Pua's community, and widespread hysteria. Rose tries to uncover who really attacked Talia that night, but hesitates to voice her doubts out loud, even when pressured by Pua. When Joe is killed in an act of vigilantism, both women are forced to decide where they stand and how much they will sacrifice for their friendship. I have trained extensively as a hula dancer in a traditional Hawaiian halua and continued to dance at a hula studio near my home in Maryland. As a military spouse previously stationed in Hawaii with family roots in the island's plantation culture, I have a personal connection to both worlds. Redacted is the story that came out of this crossroads of cultures in my life. Attached are the first five pages of my manuscript. Thank you for your time and consideration. Sincerely, April Cordo Wright.

[Bianca Marais]

Thank you, Carly. Okay, word count there and your take on that.

[Carly Waters]

Okay. This one came in at 497 words, so just shy of 500. All right. There's a lot happening in this. In this pitch, and a lot happening in this book. It's definitely on the long side, right? 114,000 words is pretty long. I understand. You know, there's some world building. It's historical. I'm not saying it's impossible. You know, clearly you have pitched this book in this way because, you know, you think this is the length it needs to be, and it's not my job to tell you otherwise, but I'm just telling you, visually, it clocks in a little bit long. I think this is really interesting and really unique. I think what I was most curious about was how related to the history of this, of factual event this was. And I didn't go deep in terms of, you know, Wikipedia research on purpose because I do feel like the query letter should do the job of telling me how closely or loosely this is tied to certain events. So, you know, I'll leave that to you to maybe figure out if you need to kind of dial that in a little bit. But it. This is obviously, you know, very interesting, and this is obviously why I wrote a book about it. So I really liked it all. I think your author bio paragraph is really great. I think there's a lot of. Kind of juiciness that happens in the pitch and in the story. You name a lot of things that happen, which is great, and we kind of. We understand we can wrap our head around what is happening in this book. And I. I didn't have any of these kind of like, this is vague or what's happening here. You know, I. I think my only question really is this is a dual POV, so I'm kind of curious about who the dual POVs are. I'm assuming it's Rose and Pua, which obviously, you know, makes me question, you know, what kind of insights we're gonna get into these two women and your background and how that informs how you write about people that are not different than you. You know, that's obviously a question mark I have. But in terms of the plot itself, it seems just like a very interesting book.

[Bianca Marais]

Thank you, Carly. Okay, handing it across to Cece. Now.

[Cece Lira]

I'm always saying, oh, I can't shoot the movie trailer for this. I could shoot the movie trailer for this one. Like, the plot is really clear, so great job. I also assumed that it was Rose and Pua, I guess to me, though, the plot is very centered on Rose. And so if it is Rose and Pua or if it's Rose and anyone else, because it needs dual point of view. I would prefer to know, like, what Pua's story looks like as well. I know that the stories are connected, and I know that the worlds are colliding, which is great for dual point of view, but I kind of wanted just a very clear character arc for each of them, plot wise. And so I would revise that because, like Harley said, this is really great. Like, there seems to be a lot of potential here. And so I was really curious. It just all seems to revolve around Rose's viewpoint. So if it's dual point of view, you want both points of view to have equal weight in the query letter.

[Bianca Marais]

Thank you, Cece. Okay, Carly, will you please give us a summary of what's in those opening pages?

[Carly Waters]

All right, we start with a prologue, and this one is very intense. It's one page based on the query letter. I was kind of wondering, you know, if this was the scene where, you know, something bad happens to the neighbor. But it's basically that this female unnamed character is trying to get away. You know, there's a sense of danger here. She's kind of trying to get out of a car. We're near the water. It's very like, you know, staccato in terms of, you know, what's happening, but we get a sense of danger. And somebody says, you think you can get away with. Get away from me, and then you Know they're near the water's edge. And that's it for the prologue. So chapter one, we have Rose. We have a timestamp, May 1931, and we understand that she has traveled from the mainland of the USA to Hawaii on a boat to meet up with her husband. We get a little bit of backstory in terms of, you know, when she left and the last conversation that she had with her aunt. But it's mostly her just kind of looking at her new home, getting there, getting to the island. She's a bit clumsy. She falls, and the person that happens to be there is her husband. Yeah. And they kind of have a little chat, a little banter. That is where it ends.

[Bianca Marais]

Okay, so prologue. Let's discuss that.

[Carly Waters]

All right. So I, to be honest with you, had no idea what was happening in this prologue. As you could maybe tell from me trying to stumble to summarize it for everybody, it's very staccato in terms of, you know, just factual information. You know, like, she willed the strength of the ocean into her. Like, her hands tried again for the door handle. Crushed shells and red dirt turned below the running board. She knew if she jumped, the island could break her. You know, she was easing off the pedal. I don't know. There was just a lot of like, is she driving? Is somebody else driving? It sounds like she's driving. Maybe she's not. I don't know. I was just a little bit confused on what was happening. And I always feel like if I have to read something more than once, especially you're opening pages, like, then they're not doing the job. So I don't know. I think we do without this. To me, obviously, it's, it said, it's trying to suggest, like, there's something dangerous coming. Right. Like, that's what a lot of thriller esque prologues do. I think that this could completely just open with Rose's chapter. And, you know, I don't think any love would be lost. And if you want to have a sense of danger in the kind of opening pages, I think there is a way to have a sense of danger in the opening pages because, you know, she's traveling by boat from mainland United States to Hawaii. Like, the ocean is really dangerous. Boats could be, like, something could have happened on board. Like, there is a way to create an ominous vibe in these opening pages without having a prologue that's like, danger, danger, danger. Like a little red light alert that you're trying to kind of set off for the reader. So I think it can be scrapped. And I said no love would be lost because I definitely had to read it a number of times. And as I said, in my opinion, we don't need it. Okay, so chapter one. Rose. I really, I really, really liked this and I'll tell you why. I always like kind of like a fish out of water situation where, you know, she's. She's moving somewhere new. In some ways, people could interpret this as, you know, it's first day of school kind of vibe because it is like her starting her new life in Hawaii. But it is really interesting and it's done really well. I want to share something that I think not a lot of authors do really well in terms of debut material we see on the show. And something that I really liked in these pages, which is when you are trying to take your character for being in the moment and then just like quickly sliding back a little bit. And I'll show you how this author did that. And I thought she did it really well. So is she's on the railing of the boat, kind of like watching them come towards land. And she said, without warning, the ship lurched and I caught myself on the railing, a pin prick of pain shooting through my palm. A thick splinter had twisted loose from the polished wood. Carefully, I pressed it back into the wood grain so it was no longer out of place. Out of place. The echo of Aunt Helen's parting words bouncing around in my head. The crisp New England morning only a few weeks ago seemed a lifetime away. And so then she slips into this sense of being out of place, her kind of coming to a new land and that sort of thing. So I don't know, I thought that was just really, really well done. You know, the splinter on the wood, you know, the wood is out of place and she's out of place. And I don't know, I thought that was done really, really well. And so I just wanted to applaud that person because the author here, because.

[April Cordo Wright]

I think they did a really good job.

[Carly Waters]

My only other question mark was around her rapport with the husband because it seems like she's kind of a bit like, oh, this is all new to me. And so I. And again, I could be inferring here or not reading as closely as I could have, but whenever I say not reading as closely as I could have, I always want to emphasize the fact that agents are never reading as closely as they could have because we are always reading so much material. And so I'm often skimming, looking for things, you know, just trying to kind of figure out and get a sense of the scene. So I say this. It seems to me what I am inferring is that they got married. He kind of went to Hawaii first and then she's following him. I didn't get the sense that they were on the boat together, but I could have been mistaken. But they. But also I wasn't sure afterwards because then I thought the way they spoke to each other was kind of like an intimate banter. So they hadn't seen each. Like, think about how long it would take in the 30s for somebody to meet their husband in Hawaii. It would have been like she would have had to go from the east coast of the states to the west coast of the states, get on a boat, take the boat. So did they know each other for a long time? But it also seemed like the marriage was new. So like, that was a bit unfamiliar for her to have a husband. So I don't know, I had a lot of questions in terms of that. I don't know if it requires, you know, you answering all my questions in these opening pages, but I obviously want to share my questions with you because that's what came up for me. But yeah, I liked a little rapport though, because, you know, it suggested a level of comfort. Would it have been more interesting if they didn't get along? Probably. But again, it depends on the vibe that you're going for in this book of what is supposed to be kind of cute and historical and what is not supposed to be, you know, what is supposed to be a little bit more surprising. Again, because you have this prologue that's suggesting danger, danger, danger, danger. Like something's happening to this female character. And then we have this like, sweet moment of her making it across the ocean. We get the sense she had some sickness, like motion sickness on the boat. I don't know. And then they kind of like meet the husband and they have this like, cute, like little meet cute moment where he kind of picks her up and they were stumbling and they're kind of chit chatting about, you know, their life together, basically. So I don't know, I. I think that if the goal is to make this ominous ish of an opening, I would just make chapter one more ominous. Meaning again, some sort of like, danger on the boat, danger over the water, or maybe like coming, you know, when she meets the husband. Things didn't go that. That smoothly. Yeah, so those are some of my bits of advice for this one.

[Bianca Marais]

Yeah, I'm the same. When I start reading, I really need to understand what's happening? I need to. To understand who the POV character is. I need to orientate myself in the story. But Sally Rooney's latest, Intermezio, I had to read those first two pages probably ten times, and it was also written in this very staccato way. And then I thought, okay, I'm just being a doofus. So I handed it to my husband and I was like, okay, you read this and you tell me who the POV character is. Which one's the brother, which one's the youngest brother who's P O V O E N? And he was just as confused as I was. And there must have been a reason why she did that, because she is a masterful writer. But beyond putting the reader immediately on the back foot and making them feel like they're in quicksand and they don't know what the hell's going on, I couldn't figure out why she did that. So for any of our listeners who have figured that out, please let me know. But just to say to this author, there is hope. So if you are the Sally Rooney of the world and you begin a novel in a way that makes your reader go, I have no clue what's happening here, and everybody says this is a book of a generation, then, you know, anything is possible for the rest of us. Okay, Cece, your thoughts.

[Cece Lira]

I had the same experience trying to get into her latest. Like, I loved normal people so much that I was like, I'm going to love this. And I. Like, I stopped. I will probably go back because it's Sally Rooney, but this is a long way of saying, unless you are Sally Rooney, unless you already have a dedicated readership that is willing to, I guess, fight to stay in your book, please, please don't attempt to do it. It probably won't end well. I really like that Carly asked the question about, like, what. Like, what vibes do you want? What tone do you want? Like, do you want it to be Omus? Just because that wasn't. That wasn't clear for me. And, you know, a huge part of being an author is figuring out what you want your reader to feel and then manipulating that. The reader shouldn't feel manipulated. It should feel effortless and seamless and like magic. Much in the same way that a magician on stage shouldn't feel like they're manipulating the audience, it should feel magical. But that is what they're doing, right? Like, storytelling is seduction and seduction is a form of manipulation. And so you are not conveying the tone of your novel. In a way that I think is. Is clear. I think maybe you haven't figured it out, or if you have, you added this prologue later because maybe someone said, oh, this chapter one is too quiet. Because it is quite quiet. And you're like, let me add, you know, something that's ominous. Maybe that's what happened, maybe it's not. I have no idea. But I don't think the prologue is working. I was also very confused. So either nix the prologue or revise the prologue in chapter one. Like, there's. There's just. There's just so much opportunity on those pages to get me inside her head and make me feel really curious. But all those pages are doing is establishing factual information in a way that's really clear. Like, we're in scene, we know what's happening. The writing's polished, but I needed more depth and I needed more curiosity. I really think that tension here needs to be infused. And as I was thinking that I was writing down my notes like, we need more tension, I thought to myself, hmm, I wonder if that's why she added the prologue. You know, because someone said you need more tension. But unfortunately, that's not how it works. Even if the prologue has tons of tension and is working, chapter one still needs tons of tension. You know, essentially a prologue just means you have to have two fantastic beginnings. It doesn't mean that you get to not have a fantastic beginning or juicy beginning. And that's something that is at the heart of why prologues are so hard. Because if writing one fantastic beginning is hard, imagine writing two. You know, like, it's a bigger challenge. So we feel for you. We do. Like, we have so much empathy. It does need a lot of revising.

[Bianca Marais]

Thank you, Cece.

[Cece Lira]

Yeah.

[Bianca Marais]

And for our listeners, you've maybe heard me mention before that my book that's coming out in June had a prologue. I thought it was a pretty decent prologue. My editor disagreed, so that became, I think, chapter 18. So I feel your pain when it comes to prologues. I really feel your pain. Right. Carly and Cece, thank you so much for your wonderful insights. Next week we will have our author interview and in two weeks time we are back with another prolonged books with hooks. We'll see you then.

[April Cordo Wright]

A reminder that this is an unscripted program and our conversations have been edited and condensed and is not a full picture of our feedback or conversation directly with each author. As always, refer back to our written.

[Carly Waters]

Notes for the fulsome picture.

[April Cordo Wright]

Carly Waters and Cece Lira are agents at PS Literate. Agency, but their work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Carly and Cece on this podcast are solely that of them as podcast co hosts and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies or position of PS Literary Agency. A reminder about all the ways that.

[Carly Waters]

You can support us as a show.

[April Cordo Wright]

Rate us five stars on Apple Podcasts. Tell your writing friends about us. We'd love to help as many writers as possible and follow us on our Substack newsletter. Get our Stacked newsletter on a weekly basis. Bonus videos, articles, essays, advice and more. You can find it@the shitaboutwriting.substack.com that's theshitaboutwriting.substack.com.

[Bianca Marais]

And that's it for today's episode. I hope you'll join us for next week's show. In the meantime, keep at it. Remember, it just takes one. Yes omg. Have you seen the Deep Dive Virtual retreat lineup for the 1st and 2nd of February? It's incredible. Gatekeepers galore. As well as the authors who managed to get past them, we've got the editors and agents who worked on phenomenal projects like Station 11 Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, Crazy Rich Asians, the Flight Attendant, Maame Wayward, the Wife Upstairs, the Tinder Swindler, Big Little Lies, the Perfect Couple, the Other Black Girl, and so much more. The presentation topics are brilliant, so practical and valuable regardless of where you are in your writing journey. One of our speakers, the brilliant Annabel Monaghan who wrote the best selling Nora Goes Off Script, was Adele Delegate at the very first Deep Dive Retreat. And now she's kicking butt all over the place. Coming back to present. That could be you one day. Those of you who take part in the Thousand Words of Summer will also be super excited to see the fabulous Jamie Attenberg in the lineup as well. Trust me, you do not want to miss this. Head to our website, theshitaboutwriting.com go to the Deep Dive page to see more information and to register. We hope to see you there.