Podcast Summary: "Concrete vs. Abstract Curiosity"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
• Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Waters, and CeCe Lira
• Episode: Concrete vs. Abstract Curiosity
• Release Date: May 29, 2025
• Description: Aimed at emerging writers, this podcast delves into improving writing quality and understanding the publishing industry. Host Bianca Marais, alongside literary agents Carly Waters and CeCe Lira, provides expert insights, critiques query letters, and offers practical advice through segments like "Books with Hooks."

1. Episode Introduction

Bianca Marais welcomes listeners to the episode, introducing the co-hosts, Carly Waters and CeCe Lira from P.S. Literary Agency. She announces a special "Books with Hooks" segment featuring guest author Kate Visser.

2. Author Introduction and Query Letter Reading

Bianca Marais introduces Kate Visser, an author seeking representation. Kate expresses her excitement and gratitude for the opportunity to be on the show.

Kate Visser proceeds to read her query letter:

"Dear Carly, CeCe, and Bianca, thank you for all you do for the writing community... I am seeking representation for my crossover dark academia romantic fantasy 'Stage of Shadows,' complete at 96,000 words..."
[02:20]

The query outlines her novel's premise, set in a magical theater college where two students navigate love and life-threatening challenges.

3. Critique by Carly Waters

Carly Waters begins her critique by commending Kate's professionalism and the strong hook of her query letter.

"All right. Well done. I know it's nerve-wracking getting on the Show... I think the hook is really strong."
[05:41]

She highlights areas for improvement:

• Clarity in Character Descriptions:
  "I found the first paragraph quite easy to understand... But the Moira paragraph... that's kind of an example of like, is it a literal Switch on the wall..."
  [07:15]

• World-Building and Stakes:
  "I could see that you were very intentional with your word choice... But I do have questions about how sinister things are."
  [08:19]

Carly emphasizes the importance of balancing intrigue without causing confusion, especially in complex fantasy settings.

4. Critique by CeCe Lira

CeCe Lira echoes Carly's positive feedback on Kate's presentation voice and delves deeper into story structure.

"I have to echo Carly's comment about your voice. That was such a good reading... It was soothing and at the same time, like, eerie and match the story's mood."
[11:12]

Key points she addresses:

• Story Arcs Clarity:
  "Dolly story arc, very clear for me... Moira's arc is not clear for me."
  [11:36]

• Dual POV Investment:
  "In dual point of view stories, one of the main reasons why I will pass is that they didn't feel invested in both arcs."
  [12:25]

CeCe advises ensuring both protagonists have well-defined and engaging arcs to maintain reader interest.

5. Author's Response and Further Discussion

Kate Visser acknowledges the feedback and provides additional context about her characters and plot complexities.

"Moira was created by the school... She's destined to channel Everstory's ability to propagate stories within the human subconscious."
[14:21]

She elaborates on Moira's internal struggles and the overarching themes inspired by Carl Jung's theories. The discussion progresses into how to effectively incorporate these elements into the query without revealing spoilers.

6. In-Depth Analysis of the Query Letter

Carly Waters expresses both excitement and concern over the novel's ambitious scope.

"I feel like you're biting off a lot here. Not in a way that makes it impossible... But it's a bit sci-fi, a bit thriller, a bit fantasy."
[35:49]

CeCe Lira focuses on the protagonist's arcs, urging Kate to ensure Moira's journey is compelling and distinct.

"You have to really build the relationship between these two for me to believe that it would even be a question that she wouldn't save her little brother."
[21:21]

The agents discuss the necessity of moving critical plot points earlier in the narrative to maintain tension and reader engagement.

7. Discussion on Prologue and Story Structure

Kate summarizes her manuscript's opening pages, including the prologue and chapter one, highlighting their importance in setting the story's mood and introducing key characters.

"In the prologue, we open on a murder that's in progress... Then we go to chapter one, where we meet Dolly..."
[28:15]

CeCe Lira differentiates between abstract and concrete curiosity, advising Kate to incorporate specific mysteries to enhance reader engagement.

"Abstract curiosity is... it's not concrete. There's so many ways to do it."
[34:27]

She provides examples of concrete curiosity from other authors to guide Kate in refining her prologue.

8. Final Feedback and Next Steps

Carly Waters reiterates her excitement for Kate's potential while expressing concerns about the manuscript's complexity.

"I have two reasons why I am excited for you... But you have tentacles going in all these different directions."
[35:49]

CeCe Lira offers further encouragement and emphasizes the importance of emotional depth in storytelling.

"Are you willing to invest a little bit of time in going deeper in the emotions in your characters?"
[43:40]

Kate Visser responds positively, sharing her plans for further revisions and seeking additional feedback from beta readers.

"I'm open to that not being the case. I'm waiting to hear what my beta readers say."
[40:54]

9. Conclusion

The episode concludes with Kate Visser expressing gratitude for the valuable feedback and intentions to implement the suggestions. CeCe Lira offers to provide further assistance through her course, highlighting the supportive nature of the podcast community.

"I'm so excited. Thank you so much."
[44:44]

Bianca Marais wraps up the episode, encouraging listeners to subscribe for detailed critique notes and teasing upcoming segments.

Notable Quotes:

• Carly Waters on Query Clarity:
  "I think the hook is really strong. Any agents... definitely something you're going to want to pay attention to."
  [05:46]

• CeCe Lira on Story Arcs:
  "Both arcs should have very clear, fleshed out stories so that we can be very curious and invested in each one."
  [13:35]

• Carly Waters on Complexity:
  "I think it's a bit sci-fi, a bit thriller, a bit fantasy... If you can put this octopus to bed, you have an incredible project here."
  [35:49]

• CeCe Lira on Emotional Depth:
  "You're going to have to really build the relationship between these two for me to believe that it would even be a question that she wouldn't save her little brother."
  [21:21]

• Kate Visser on Revisions:
  "I feel like I was able to get that on the page. I'm open to that not being the case. I'm waiting to hear what my beta readers say."
  [40:54]

Conclusion: In this episode of "The Shit No One Tells You About Writing," author Kate Visser receives insightful critiques from literary agents Carly Waters and CeCe Lira. The discussion focuses on refining her query letter, clarifying character arcs, and balancing complex plot elements to enhance her manuscript's appeal. The episode underscores the importance of clear storytelling, emotional depth, and strategic query crafting in the publishing journey.