Podcast Summary: "Delving Deeply Into Your Antagonist's Psyche"

Podcast Information:

• Title: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
• Host/Authors: Bianca Marais, Carly Waters, and CeCe Lyra
• Episode: Delving Deeply Into Your Antagonist's Psyche
• Release Date: February 20, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "Delving Deeply Into Your Antagonist's Psyche," Bianca Marais, along with her cohosts Carly Waters and CeCe Lyra from P.S. Literary Agency, navigates the intricate process of crafting compelling antagonists in storytelling. Targeted at emerging writers, the discussion centers on enhancing character development, specifically focusing on antagonists, through the critique of submitted query letters and opening pages.

Featured Segments

1. Promotion of Upcoming Class: Starting It Right ([00:00] - [03:10])

CeCe Lyra kicks off by announcing a four-day class titled "Starting It Right," aimed at teaching writers how to craft effective story beginnings. The class includes an interactive component where participants can submit their opening scenes for live critique.

Cece Lira: “This is going to be a four-day class so come prepared to take lots of notes.”

2. Giveaway Announcement ([01:19] - [03:10])

Bianca Murray introduces a giveaway for listeners to win an appearance on the "Books with Hooks" segment, allowing them to discuss their work on the show.

Bianca Murray: “If you're interested, sign up now. And don't worry if you can't attend one or more live sessions because the recording will be sent to everyone who is registered.”

3. Books with Hooks Segment: Critiquing "Sag Harbor" by Frank Besser ([03:10] - [16:37])

The trio delves into their first query letter from Frank Besser, providing detailed critiques on his manuscript "Sag Harbor," a multi-POV Gothic horror novel.

• Word Count Concerns: CeCe expresses skepticism about the feasibility of a 61,000-word multi-POV narrative, questioning how effectively each character's psyche can be explored within the limited word count.

  Cece Lira ([06:49]): “When it comes to multi POV, it's a challenge to be able to accomplish that.”

• Clarifying Time Period: CeCe advises including the specific year in the plot paragraph to ground the story historically, enhancing societal context and character motivations.

  Cece Lira ([06:49]): “I would include the year there. So I would put whatever the year is... because everything about our society changes depending on the time period.”

• Focus on Main Character's Perspective: The critique highlights confusion over whose story is being primarily told, suggesting that the plot paragraphs should center more clearly on Elizabeth if she is the main protagonist.

  Cece Lira ([06:49]): “If that's the case, I would rewrite the plot paragraphs to always be focused on her.”

4. Books with Hooks Segment: Critiquing "Kill Your Darlings" by Jade Wright ([26:46] - [50:30])

The hosts analyze Jade Wright's query letter for her novel "Kill Your Darlings," a psychological thriller exploring the dark side of literary ambition.

• Originality and Hook Issues: Carly points out the lack of originality in the premise, noting that a similar title by Peter Swanson could pose challenges in differentiating the work.

  Carly Waters ([29:05]): “Unfortunately, there is a New York Times bestselling author named Peter Swanson, who has a book coming out in 2025 with this title.”

• Antagonist Development: Both Carly and CeCe discuss the portrayal of Caleb, the antagonist, criticizing his lack of depth and self-awareness, which hampers readers' ability to connect or feel curious about his psyche.

  Carly Waters ([32:11]): “This man is the least self-aware human on the planet... If he’s supposed to be a serial killer, he needs to be portrayed as intelligent and complex.”

• Narrative Perspective Confusion: The ambiguity in the point of view (POV) makes it difficult for readers to empathize with Caleb or understand his motivations, diluting the antagonist's impact.

  Carly Waters ([35:12]): “I just wasn't quite sure how we're supposed to feel about him other than the ick factor.”

• Emotional Depth and Avoiding Cliches: CeCe emphasizes the importance of avoiding clichéd expressions and encourages deeper psychological insight into the antagonist's motivations and vulnerabilities.

  Cece Lira ([43:23]): “I want to know how she specifically Views that... you have to go deeper.”

5. Insights and Advice on Crafting Antagonists ([16:37] - [50:30])

Throughout the critiques, Bianca, Carly, and CeCe offer valuable advice on developing antagonists:

• Balancing Character Traits: They stress the need for antagonists to possess a balance of traits that make them multi-dimensional, thereby fostering a sense of curiosity and engagement from the reader.

  Carly Waters ([48:49]): “We need to think about the difference between you, the way that you open, whether we're talking about the show or whether we're talking about the book, and the way that your novel is opening and the way that we think about Joe Goldberg.”

• Avoiding Predictability: The hosts advise against starting stories in a way that foresees the antagonist's actions, recommending instead to build suspense and layers that reveal the antagonist's complexities gradually.

  Cece Lira ([21:18]): “Everything before the story's climax is fair game in a query letter.”

• Enhancing Plot Clarity: Emphasis is placed on ensuring that query letters clearly communicate the plot's stakes and the antagonist's role within the narrative to capture an agent's attention effectively.

  Cece Lira ([06:49]): “It's just too obvious, right? Like, it's a little too plot convenient.”

Conclusion

The episode offers a comprehensive exploration of the nuances involved in creating compelling antagonists. Through meticulous critique of actual query letters, Bianca, Carly, and CeCe provide emerging writers with actionable insights into character development, narrative structure, and the significance of balancing emotional depth with plot progression. Their discussions underscore the importance of crafting antagonists who are not only formidable but also psychologically intricate, thereby enriching the overall storytelling experience.

Notable Quotes:

1. Cece Lira on Multi-POV Challenges ([06:49]):

   “When it comes to multi POV, it's a challenge to be able to accomplish that.”

2. Carly Waters on Originality Issues ([29:05]):

   “Unfortunately, there is a New York Times bestselling author named Peter Swanson, who has a book coming out in 2025 with this title.”

3. Cece Lira on Emotional Curiosity vs. Empathy ([14:30]):

   “But you're starting with the on the nose interiority... I'm feeling empathy, not feeling curiosity.”

4. Carly Waters on Complex Antagonist ([48:49]):

   “We need to think about the difference between you, the way that you open... and the way that your novel is opening and the way that we think about Joe Goldberg.”

5. Bianca Murray on Writer's Empathy ([25:20]):

   “I'm just feeling like this is a newbie writer getting their Bambi legs under them, trying to figure out, like, what's the way forward here.”

Final Thoughts: This episode serves as a vital resource for writers aiming to deepen their understanding of antagonist development. By dissecting real-world examples and offering constructive feedback, Bianca, Carly, and CeCe empower writers to create antagonists that are not only challenging but also resonate deeply with readers.