Podcast Summary: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode: Insights from Lisa Unger

Date: March 5, 2026
Host: Bianca Marais
Special Guest: Lisa Unger (NYT bestselling author)

Episode Overview

This episode features a deep-dive conversation between host Bianca Marais and acclaimed thriller author Lisa Unger. The discussion centers around Lisa Unger’s secrets to longevity in publishing, her approach to authentic character-driven stories, the challenges and strategies of balancing social media with creativity, her organic writing process, and the emotional layering in her novels. With thoughtful audience questions and poignant readings from Unger’s new book Served Him Right, this episode offers a wealth of advice and inspiration for emerging writers.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Longevity and Adaptability in the Publishing Industry

[02:24]–[06:24]

• Lisa’s Career Timeline:
  Lisa has published 23 novels since 2002, with her 24th turned in and 25th in progress. She notes the immense industry change (formats, trends, market).
• Rolling with Change:
  Lisa emphasized industry volatility: agents part ways, editors shift, publishing trends change, and new technology disrupts formats.
  • Quote:
    “There are these dizzying highs and these crushing lows...And yet every day I get up and I write, and the same thing is true.” — Lisa Unger [05:35]
• Zen Focus:
  Lisa’s mantra for survival is consistency:
  • Quote:
    “On the worst day, hopefully you write. What do you do in the best day? You better sit down and write.” — Lisa Unger [06:10]
• Advice for Writers:
  • Focus on constant improvement—"I believe that I can be a better writer than I was yesterday."
  • Don’t be misled by highlight reels; longevity is sustained by devotion to the craft over trends.

2. Reader Engagement vs. Creativity in the Age of Social Media

[06:24]–[11:16]

• Balancing Act:
  Lisa discusses her loyal fanbase and her reputation as a supportive “literary citizen.” However, she is candid about the dangers of social media for writers.
  • Social media can be the “enemy of creativity.” — Lisa Unger [08:16]
• Authenticity vs. Accessibility:
  She tries to maintain authenticity but prioritizes creative work.
  • Cal Newport’s ‘Deep Work’: Lisa structures her day to put “deep work” (writing) first (5am–noon), with “shallow work” (engagement/marketing) later.
    • Quote:
      “The work of writing, that is my deep work… Marketing and engagement, that is my shallow work.” — Lisa Unger [10:19]
• Relationship with Readers:
  • Once a book is published, it becomes the reader’s—it morphs into something different for each reader. Her true engagement is via her stories.

3. Layering and Depth in Thrillers

[11:16]–[14:52]

• Bianca reads two striking excerpts from Served Him Right highlighting Unger’s rage and philosophical depth within a murder mystery structure.
  • On violence and addiction in rural America (overdoses, domestic violence)
  • On humanity’s complex relationship with nature (toxicity, mortality, addiction)
• Putting ‘Rage on the Page’:
  Lisa acknowledges writing from places of rage and complexity:
  • Quote:
    “I got to own it. There's a lot of rage in that book, for sure.” — Lisa Unger [12:45]
  • Quote, Bianca:
    “There’s so much depth and layering in between the murder and mystery element.” [14:50]
• Development Over Time:
  When asked if this layering is a recent development, Lisa reflects on her upbringing as a “literary omnivore” and traveling outsider, which made books her home:
  • “If I could read it, if I could reach it, I could read it.” — Lisa Unger [15:32]
  • Her dark imagination “metabolizes” the darkness she perceives in reality into fiction.

4. Authentic Multi-POV Storytelling

[20:40]–[24:00]

• Distinct Voices:
  Lisa masterfully writes multiple first-person POVs (6–7 per novel), each authentic and distinct by background, language, and experience.
• Process:
  • She does not use vision boards, software, or plot charts.
  • Characters’ voices emerge organically and are internally unique for her, just as real people are in life.
    • Quote:
      “I don’t understand that question. Do you get confused between your sister and your mother and your friend?” — Lisa Unger [22:35]
  • Writing is an “ebb and flow;” on off days, she steps away until inspiration returns.

5. Organic Discovery & Empathy Through Research

[24:29]–[26:54]

• Writing from Lived and Unlived Experience:
  • Characters reveal themselves fully—sometimes with surprises (e.g., a character in a wheelchair).
  • Lisa prioritizes extensive research and sensitivity, consulting experts to portray experiences respectfully.
    • Quote:
      “You need to do months of research trying to understand that experience so that I can portray it with love and authenticity on the page.” — Lisa Unger [25:23]
• The Joy of Discovery:
  • For Lisa, the joy in writing comes from following characters’ surprises—“that’s part of the joy for me. It is discovery, inhabiting character, bringing people authentically to the page.” [26:36]
• Fiction & Empathy:
  • Stepping into fictional worlds creates real empathy—a necessity in today’s world.
    • Quote:
      “We are creators of empathy...The world needs [empathy] more than ever.” — Bianca Marais [26:54]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “People still read, people still want stories, like in whatever format.” — Lisa Unger [03:55]
• “What sustains me is the work on the page—head down, nose to the keyboard for 25 years.” — Lisa Unger [02:22]
• “Social media is an inauthentic platform, but I’ve worked to try and find a way to be authentic within that platform.” — Lisa Unger [08:29]
• “If I know what's going to happen in this story, I have no desire to write it.” — Bianca Marais [24:00]
• “That’s how empathy is created. We are creators of empathy, the world needs now more than ever.” — Bianca Marais [26:54]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:24] Longevity and change in publishing
• [06:24] Reader engagement, social media, prioritizing creativity
• [11:16] Layering, depth, rage in Unger’s fiction (bianca reads excerpts)
• [14:52] Lisa’s literary background and how it shaped her style
• [20:40] Writing multi-POV fiction authentically
• [24:29] Research, empathy, and the organic emergence of character
• [26:54] The role of fiction in fostering empathy

Conclusion

Lisa Unger’s interview is a masterclass in sustained creativity, authenticity, and the inner life of a multi-decade author navigating a tumultuous industry. Writers are encouraged to:

• Prioritize the work,
• Stay true to their authentic process,
• Value character-above-plot,
• Resist the pull of shallow, distracting engagement,
• And remember that fiction’s greatest gift is its power to foster empathy and understanding.