Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode: Shooting the Shit About Editors Quiet Quitting and the Unpaid Labour of Agents
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra
Date: February 9, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the often-unspoken challenges and frustrations of working in the publishing industry, especially from the perspective of literary agents and authors. Topics include the phenomena of editors “quiet quitting” on projects, the financial and emotional costs of agenting, the realities of unpaid labor, transparent author income, and the value of professional development versus writing talent. The co-hosts intersperse their candid industry commentary with laughter, personal experiences, and shoutouts to trending bookish social media posts.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. TV, Pop Culture, and Book Adaptations

• Hosts open with light chit-chat about TV shows based on books (e.g., Sansa's show, book-to-screen adaptations) and the FOMO around cultural phenomena.
• Bianca: “I want to dissect the storytelling… I want to do it for my nerdy purposes.” (02:31)
• They discuss balancing family, work, and “couch time” for creative replenishment.

2. Publishing Industry Pet Peeves & Quiet Quitting

The Problem of Editor “Quiet Quitting” on Option Projects

• Carly raises major frustration over editors not officially passing on option projects but also not communicating clearly—leaving agents and authors in limbo.

  “I’m calling it quiet quitting on this option project because they haven’t officially passed on it, but they’re also not saying no, which is just so annoying and so frustrating.” (07:23–07:59)

• CeCe recounts a similar anecdote where a lack of communication led to tension after a book was sold elsewhere, with the original editor being surprised.

  “And like, to be clear, like, to anyone listening, this is not common behavior. Like, most lovely editors will respond and will be, you know, honest about whether they want something or not. It is the author's choice… Communication in this industry is not what it should be.” (08:59)

• Key insight: Contractual timelines are often ignored, and poor communication from publishers creates stress and financial risk for agents and authors alike.

3. Unpaid Labour and Economic Realities for Agents

The Nonfiction Creator Who Opted Out

• CeCe shares a story of approaching a promising nonfiction creator who analyzed the economics of book writing and ultimately declined due to time and opportunity cost.

  “They were like, I talk to my friends about how much money they make off their books… And I can make more money off these other products… What I think I don't have is the time it would take to write such a thoughtful book.” (12:08–12:40)

• Carly adds: The “brand recognition” and long-term business value of publishing a book isn’t always outweighed by immediate monetary gaps.

• Insight: Writing a book demands passion and a vision that isn’t always compatible with other business models—authors must weigh the real costs and benefits.

4. Industry Transparency: Viral Money Posts & Book Sales Reality Checks

Laura McKowen’s Post on Book Advances and Royalties

• The hosts discuss Laura McKowen’s transparent breakdown of her income, expenses, and units sold.

  “The average book in America sells 200 copies per year and a thousand copies over its lifetime… She talks about the money going out—agent, freelance editor, publicist… she was out of pocket at this point to invest in all of these things.” (16:58–20:22)

• Notable frustration: BookScan’s incomplete data fails to reflect true sales performance.

  “It did not capture even close to 85% of her sales… The idea that people attach such importance to Bookscan…” (20:22)

• CeCe's rant:

  “People who complain when authors promote their book... I wish that you live in a world with no chocolate. Okay, that is my wish for you.” (22:41)

5. Navigating Writer Resources & Professionalization in Publishing

Where Should Emerging Writers Look for Reliable Information?

• Carly reflects on the overwhelming amount of (and past scarcity of) information available now, contrasting then-vs-now learning curves.

• CeCe’s advice:

  “Learning about the business of publishing is really important… but first, work on your talent… So that would be my first comment. Like, first I would work on writing, writing, writing, storytelling, storytelling, storytelling.” (28:17–28:39)

• Practical Tips:

  • Find structure—courses, in-person/virtual networking, and credible sources.
  • Be skeptical and fact-check even industry “experts.”
  • Use social media to build community, not just a following.
  • Conferences and workshops are invaluable but require a strategic investment.

• Career/Hobby Divide:

  “If you want something to be a career, you have to invest some form of capital in it. Right? Whether it's your human capital, your labor, your financial capital, there has to be an investment made.” (33:18–34:57)

6. The Unpaid, High-Risk Labor of Literary Agents

Viral Post by Editor Yadon Israel on Agent Labor

• Summary: Yadon Israel’s Instagram highlights that agents only earn if a sale is made—no salary or guarantee.

  “When you work with an agent, you're entering into a shared risk agreement. They... invest labor. You provide intellectual property and you both hope it converts.” (38:00–41:40)

• CeCe expands:

  “There's labor on both sides... Never make changes your agent asks for unless you really love the vision.” (41:40)

• Carly observes:

  “Different agents experience this financial risk differently, which directly affects how much energy they can afford to put into you… Over the years by just having more experience… I do it faster, arguably probably better.” (41:40–42:51)

• Critical insight: The agent-client relationship and degree of attention are shaped by agent experience, financial circumstances, and life stage—there is no one-size-fits-all.

7. Miscellaneous Updates & Substack/Instagram Highlights

• Shoutouts to viral, comedic bookish posts (e.g., “excuse a girl for catching a vibe”).
• Announcements about upcoming literary events and substack content, including essays on beta readers, self-publishing to Big Five deals, and writing collaborations with spouses.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On psychological acuity in writing:

  “Plot is what happens. Interiority is how your protagonist processes what happens. And psychological acuity is why it matters.” — CeCe (00:00–00:48)

• On editor quiet quitting:

  “I’m calling it quiet quitting on this option project… so annoying and so frustrating.” — Carly (07:23)

• On publishing communication:

  “Communication in this industry is not what it should be.” — CeCe (08:59)

• On agent unpaid labor:

  “When you work with an agent, you're entering into a shared risk agreement… you both hope it converts.” — Yadon Israel, paraphrased by hosts (38:00–40:00)

• On writers treating writing as a career:

  “If you want something to be a career, you have to invest some form of capital in it…” — Carly (33:18)

• On online criticism:

  “I wish that you live in a world with no chocolate. Okay, that is my wish for you.” — CeCe (22:41)

Memorable Moments

• CeCe’s passionate rant about industry negativity:
  “Apologize. And stop doing that because it’s not okay. Authors should promote their work online… I wish you a world with no chocolate.” (22:08–23:08)

• Carly on talent before business acumen for writers:
  “I actually think it's putting the cart before the horse to learn about the business first… every agent I talk to says the same thing, which is the overwhelming number of books in the slush pile are not where they need to be in terms of the skill.” (28:17–28:39)

• Pragmatic breakdown of an author’s costs versus advance:
  “She said I don’t have to do those things, but I wanted to because I was anxious as hell and it was my first book… She was out of pocket at this point… to invest in all of these things.” (16:58–20:22)

• Mutual appreciation for book community humor and transparency.

• Quick-fire industry advice, candid professional confessions, and encouragement for intentional career-building.

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 00:00 — Opening; Interiority & psychological acuity in writing
• 01:28 — Host banter: TV, reading, storytelling obsessions
• 05:17 — Publishing pet peeves and quiet quitting editors
• 10:09 — Approaching nonfiction creators & industry economics
• 16:14 — Viral posts: humor & industry transparency
• 19:00 — Breakdown of Laura McKowen’s book earnings post
• 28:10 — Advice for emerging writers: business knowledge vs. craft
• 38:00 — Agent labor: risks, commission, and viral editor post
• 45:44 — Wrap-up, future topics teased

Tone & Style

• The episode is candid, sometimes irreverent, always supportive of emerging writers.
• Hosts blend practical advice with real-talk about publishing’s ongoing frustrations and realities.
• Encouragement is balanced with a call for self-awareness, professional investment, and clear-eyed expectations about the industry.

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking a forthright look at the business behind writing and publishing. With humor and unvarnished honesty, Bianca, Carly, and CeCe pull back the curtain on the unseen labor of agents, the communication woes with editors, the sobering economics of authorship, and the importance of both artistic skill and intentional professional development. The episode also celebrates fellow industry voices and continues its tradition of amplifying transparency and good humor within the book community.