The Shit No One Tells You About Writing

Episode: Shooting the Shit About What Carly and CeCe Want To Fix In The Publishing Industry and (of course!) Heated Rivalry
Hosts: Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra
Date: January 19, 2026

Episode Overview

This special “Shooting the Shit” episode features literary agents Carly Watters and CeCe Lyra in an open, candid discussion (“hence the great title,” as CeCe quips at [01:28]). With Bianca absent, the duo cover a range of topics important to emerging writers, including needed changes in the publishing industry, personal anecdotes about memory and title-stealing, some pop-culture TV-and-book chat (“Heated Rivalry”), fresh discussions about marketing and agenting, industry stats, and insightful answers to audience questions on agent guides and more. The tone is unfiltered, witty, and deeply knowledgeable—perfect for writers seeking advice and a window into the business.

Key Topics and Insights

1. Podcast Structure & Tone

• Carly and CeCe joke about their lack of organization, missing Bianca’s “General Z” energy, and maintaining a loosely structured, conversational show ([01:00–02:00]).
• “It's a show where we shoot the shit. Hence, hence the great title.” – CeCe ([01:28])

2. Engaging with the Writer Community

• Both hosts discuss the difficulties of managing DMs and social media engagement, drawing the line between being influencers versus thought leaders ([02:47–04:13]).
• “I love having a literary community but sometimes I feel like backed into the corner of being a quote unquote influencer… I want to reply to everybody and I can’t.” – Carly ([03:39])

3. CeCe’s Mea Culpa – The Importance of Memory & Attribution

• CeCe admits to misremembering and unintentionally taking credit for a client’s book title, exploring the unreliability of memory and the importance of owning up to mistakes:
  • “Your brain is a liar.” – Carly ([05:37])
  • “I took credit for my client’s work. Horrible, horrible agent moment. Guys, I’m so sorry. This is, like, unacceptable.” – CeCe ([05:54–06:00])
  • Retraction was handled with grace, humor, and full transparency ([05:37–07:56]).

4. Personal Updates and Work-Life Balance

• The hosts chat about fitness routines, winter slowness, husbands who bring coffee to bed, busy schedules, and their shared love of books over working out ([08:01–10:25]).
  • “Reading a book, way more fun than working out.” – CeCe ([09:46])

5. Publishing News – Deep Dive and Author Events

• CeCe and Carly discuss the upcoming Deep Dive event, lineup highlights, and notable sessions on genre-blending, short stories being adapted for Hollywood, and more ([10:26–13:50]).
• Carly plugs client E.J. Dixon’s NYC book launch, noting the importance of literary community events ([14:03–15:15]).

6. Heated Rivalry – TV and Book Crossovers

• Carly shares her excitement about the TV adaptation of “Heated Rivalry,” discovering her client Harrison Brown’s cameo, and the joy of seeing authentic connections between literature, television, and community pride ([16:04–17:49]).
  • “So I was just so excited to see a client in a hit TV show…feeling lots of national pride over Heated Rivalry.” – Carly ([17:06])

7. Major Segment: What Carly and CeCe Want to Fix in Publishing ([20:53–34:46])

The hosts volley back and forth with specific (often controversial!) ideas for industry reform:

Carly’s and CeCe’s Fixes:

• Transparency in Marketing Budgets: Authors should know what support their book is getting ([21:04]).
• Pay Publishing Employees More: From diversity to overtime, “this is the crux of almost all the issues.” – Carly ([21:28])
• Raise Book Prices: To both address inflation and fund better pay ([21:49]).
• Remove Sales Tax on Books: Promotes reading and access; inspired by examples like Brazil ([25:13]).
• In-house Fact-Checking: Nonfiction books especially need stronger vetting ([26:14]).
• Higher & Escalating Royalties Across Formats: Better pay for authors ([27:22]).
• More On-the-Job Training: Upskilling, especially in publishing marketing and contracts ([27:49–29:03]).
• Escrow for Advances: Advance money should earn interest for the author while contracts are finalized ([29:18]).
• Editors Should Get Contracts Training: Reduces friction with agents and improves deals ([30:25]).
• Publishers Shouldn’t Auto-Grab Audio Rights: Audio deals should mean more money, not be presumed ([32:27]).
• Industry Needs More Publishers: Reduce the “oligopsony”—too few buyers, too many sellers ([34:25]).
  • “Publishing is an oligopsony…If we had more competition, a lot of things would naturally be fixed.” – CeCe ([34:25])
• No Taxes on Books: Books foster empathy & critical thinking; incentivize reading with price breaks ([25:13–26:06]).

8. Substack & Social Media Highlights ([34:46–37:23])

• Previewed upcoming essays on starting stories at the right place, the impact of social media on writers’ productivity, changing genre/POV, and sustainability in publishing.
  • “Books increase empathy and books increase critical thinking. We need more books, we need more readers.” – CeCe ([25:15])

9. Discussion: Matt Haig’s Instagram Post & Authorial Vulnerability ([37:23–41:45])

• Matt Haig’s Instagram post about the dark side of literary fame and the toll of critical public attention sparks an empathetic conversation.
  • “Some people wonder, why isn’t this author writing more? … there’s so much pressure that comes with being a successful author.” – Carly ([41:45])
  • “The internet has become a massive version of the old town square where people were suffering…” – CeCe ([40:15])

10. Agent Guides: Evolving Book-Pitching on Social Media ([41:45–49:37])

• Analysis of visual “agent guides” (slide decks, Canva images, etc.) and whether they're effective or could backfire for querying writers.
  • “The best way to land an agent: write a fantastic query letter and fantastic first pages…that will make us go, yes, please.” – CeCe ([49:37])
  • “I do think anything with a timestamp can potentially make something feel ‘stale.’ ...but I would probably just be reposting it.” – Carly ([45:20])

11. Industry Sales Stats: 2025 Category Performance ([49:51–53:36])

• Discussion of year-over-year shifts for various genres:
  • Adult fiction up 1%
  • Science fiction up 22.1%
  • Fantasy down 8.7%
  • Self-help up 14.7%
  • Biography/autobiography/memoir down 7%
  • Children’s/YA genres up and down by ~1–4%
  • “So much of this has to do with single titles… and I do not like this about our industry, but…” – CeCe ([52:29])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• CeCe wrestles with unreliable memory:
  “My brain, all of our brains, are liars...I took credit for my client’s work. Horrible, horrible agent moment.” ([05:37–06:00])

• On the publishing labor crisis:
  “If employees are paid more, we’d get diversity, less burnout, less scarcity mentality.” – Carly ([21:28])

• On the enduring importance of great writing:
  “[Fancy pitch decks, apps] will come in handy when promoting your book. They're typically not going to land you the agent of your dreams… The best way to land an agent: write a fantastic query letter and fantastic first pages.” – CeCe ([49:37])

• On the perils of literary fame:
  “There’s so much pressure that comes with being a successful author, and there’s a lot of pressure that they feel on their shoulders.” – Carly ([41:45])

• On publishing “oligopsony”:
  “If we had more major publishers, so many of these issues would be fixed… I want to stop saying the word!” – CeCe ([34:25])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:00] – Banter on podcast structure, creativity, and disorganization
• [02:47] – Social media engagement, influencer vs. thought leader discussion
• [05:37] – CeCe’s mea culpa: memory, book titles, and apology
• [08:01] – Personal check-in: routines, books, Deep Dive event
• [16:04] – TV/book crossover: Heated Rivalry and national pride
• [20:53] – Main segment: Fixing the publishing industry (tennis match-style)
• [34:46] – Substack and essay previews
• [37:23] – Matt Haig, mental health, and the cost of success
• [41:45] – Agent guides, visual pitching, querying advice
• [49:51] – Sales stats: genre/market analysis

Final Thoughts

The hosts’ mix of candor, industry expertise, and warm, self-effacing humor makes this episode a goldmine for emerging and established writers alike. With transparency as a through-line—whether regarding publishing structures, personal foibles, or the realities of “making it”—Carly and CeCe offer actionable insights and comforting solidarity for writers navigating an often-opaque business.

Listen Next

Check out the next Substack, follow CeCe and Carly on their personal socials—not the podcast account!—and watch for updates on future guests and more “Shooting the Shit” sessions.