The Writing Trick That Landed Five Agent Offers

Summary

Episode Summary: The Writing Trick That Landed Five Agent Offers

Podcast: The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
Hosts: Bianca Marais, Carly Watters, CeCe Lyra
Guest: Molly Fader (aka Molly O’Keefe)
Release Date: July 23, 2026

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Overview of the Episode

This episode features an in-depth interview with novelist Molly Fader, whose most recent book, Lady X, sparked a bidding war between literary agents after a crucial adjustment to her query logline. Host Bianca Marais speaks with Molly about her long publishing journey, the bold professional moves behind Lady X, and the essential craft and industry lessons she’s learned along the way. The episode also dives into structure, intentional choices in narrative, generational themes, and "the trick" that made a difference when landing agent offers. Writers at every stage will find both inspiration and hard truths about revision, agent relationships, and the importance of the perfect pitch.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Molly’s Publishing Journey and Career Pivot

• Breaking up with a longtime agent: Molly recounts her emotional decision to part ways with the agent she’d worked with for her entire career after her new project (Lady X) didn’t resonate with them.
  • “She came back and she was like, Molly, I don't love this. ... I decided that I did, that I really believed in this idea. I was excited about it.” (05:07)
  • The agent breakup was tearful on both sides—a process framed almost as a personal relationship ending.
• The power of belief in your work: Molly emphasizes being willing to take risks for a story you truly believe in.

The Writing Shortcut ("Trick") That Landed Multiple Offers

• The Logline Transformation:
  Molly initially struggled to get agent traction until she reworked her logline to include the phrase “vigilante girl gang 1977,” capturing the heart and commercial hook of the story.
  • “The thing that I really, really worked on was that one sentence log line ... I reworked that log line to make sure that I got Vigilante Girl Gang 1977 in the logline. And then ... I had five phone calls and five offers for representation.” (06:26)
• Crafting the right hook:
  Bianca and Molly discuss the outsized importance of word choice and specificity when constructing a pitch for agents and editors.
  • Bianca: “Whereas you call them a vigilante girl gang. Boom, you've got the hook.” (11:03)
  • Molly: “I feel like every time I get to that place, it's because I'm missing the right word.” (11:25)
• Lesson for writers: The right “lightning in a bottle” logline serves as a rallying cry for everyone involved in sales and publishing—not just the author.

The Realities of Querying and Agent Selection

• Experience doesn’t guarantee ease:
  Despite her decades in publishing, Molly faced obstacles when querying a new project.
  • Bianca: “You go, okay, I've done so many books, it's not going to be a problem to find an agent and it's still difficult.” (07:56)
• The value of junior agents:
  Molly’s “young and hungry” agent, Sophie Cudd, proved invaluable—offering energy and editorial support.
  • “A young, hungry agent. It's a lot of fun.” (10:29)
  • Bianca: “When you have a junior agent who's hungry ... and is being mentored by a really great senior agent, that's the difference.” (09:50)
• Advice for querying writers:
  Both highlight the need to finish and revise a book thoroughly before submission.
  • “You need to write the whole book ... I, the idea that anyone would want to send out a proposal and get a deal at this point just doesn't ... you got to finish that book.” (08:42)

Crafting Compelling Structure & Prologues

• Dual timelines and interstitials:
  Molly shares the process (and pitfalls) of designing a novel with two point-of-view timelines and interspersed media (news clippings, op-eds, etc.).
  • “I knew it was going to be a dual timeline. Initially, it was not just the two POVs … I am definitely a writer who has to pare down.” (18:50)
  • “I wanted every interstitial to both comment upon what ... the reader had just read and foreshadow something else without giving anything away.” (19:13)
• Purposeful prologues:
  The book opens with a striking prologue designed to set tone and stakes, not as a crutch for weak first chapters.
  • “The stakes. You knew going in that someone was dead. That's never a bad thing.” (17:15)
  • Bianca: “Do not use a shitty Prologue as a band aid for opening chapters that are not doing the heavy lifting.” (15:58)

Ensuring Both Timelines Carry Their Weight

• Avoiding lopsided timelines:
  Molly consciously crafted the present-day plot so it would have urgency and conflict independent of uncovering history.
  • “It's not enough to support that present day timeline is finding out the secrets. So I knew that I needed to have the women in the present day timeline really going through their own things.” (21:39)
• Intentional stakes for main and secondary characters:
  The modern protagonist, Margot, undergoes significant personal upheaval—creating emotional resonance and raising the stakes beyond plot mechanics.

Characterization and Generational Themes

• Complex, “unlikeable" women:
  Some early readers disliked Margot’s POV, desiring a tougher immediate response to her husband’s betrayal.
  • “They wanted Margot to be tougher right off the bat. … putting yourself in those shoes, like, it's just so traumatic.” (25:57)
• Parallels between generations:
  Molly drew from her own parenting and observations about cycles of complicity and resistance in female experience.
  • “A group of her [my daughter’s] friends were getting harassed by this boy… All these things that I found coming out of my mouth that were the same things that my mother said to me… And my daughter and her friends were like, no.” (27:01)

The Power of Lore and Authentic Worldbuilding

• Creating a believable ‘Lady X’ legend:
  Readers have googled Lady X, believing the character might have been a real feminist vigilante.
  • Bianca: “I actually googled, was Lady X real? ... because you built her so brilliantly.” (28:42)
  • Molly: “That’s the hard work on those interstitials... It really does create that world, that lore. So, yeah, I just made her up.” (29:14)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On breaking up with your agent:
  “We got on the phone, and I immediately started crying, and I said, I think as you do. She started crying. And at the end of it, I said, I love you.” —Molly Feder (05:07)
• On loglines as a sales tool:
  “I reworked that log line to make sure that I got Vigilante Girl Gang 1977 in the logline. And then ... I had five phone calls and five offers for representation.” —Molly Feder (06:26)
• On the uses of prologues:
  “If it's trying to fix some really crummy first chapters, you've just created a mess.” —Molly Feder (17:15)
• On generational change:
  “And my daughter and her friends were like, no. And they went to the principal and the kid got in a lot of trouble… I just thought, oh my, if anything's really going to change, what I did there has to change.” —Molly Feder (27:01)
• On the satisfaction of writing justice:
  “Because the thing with fiction is you can see justice prevailing. And in real life, generally, that doesn't happen. And that's what's so satisfying about a book like this.” —Bianca Marais (30:41)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:07] Molly’s agent breakup and emotional career pivot
• [06:26] The logline “trick” that led to five agent offers
• [08:42] Why established authors still need to write full drafts before pitching
• [10:29] The hidden value and risks of young, junior agents
• [11:03] The impact of one perfect word in a logline
• [15:58] Prologues: When they work and when they don’t
• [18:50] Choices and challenges in dual timelines and interstitial structure
• [21:39] Keeping both timelines urgent and distinct
• [25:57] Handling “unlikeable” heroines and real generational differences in women’s fiction
• [27:01] Personal experience fueling narrative themes of complicity and activism
• [28:42] Building believable lore: making the fictional feel real

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Takeaway Lessons & Inspiration

• Polish your logline until it truly encapsulates your book’s hook in a single, irresistible phrase.
• Building the right team—a passionate agent, an invested editor—can be as crucial as writing the book itself.
• Never underestimate the power of revising, both on the page and in your career.
• Dual timelines and ambitious structure require careful planning to keep both arcs compelling.
• Don’t be afraid to depict “unlikeable” female characters and to draw on anger, generational conflict, and hope.

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For more deep dives on writing craft, query advice, and the realities of the publishing industry, visit the podcast’s website and support indie bookstores by purchasing featured titles through their affiliate links.

Transcript

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[Bianca Murray]

Hi there and welcome to our show the shit no one tells you about Writing. I'm best selling author Bianca Murray and I'm joined by Cece Lera of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of P.S. literary. Hi everyone. Welcome to another author interview on the podcast. Now normally I do a long rundown of introducing the person. This one just says today's guest lives in Toronto with her husband and two children. I know. She is also the podcast host of Day Drinking with Authors which is an awful lot of fun. It's my pleasure to welcome Molly Feder. Molly, welcome to the show.

[Molly Feder]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Bianca Murray]

I feel like the shorter the bio the more accomplished an author is. I. I have to pad. I always pad my bio. It's like she feeds squirrels and loves raccoons and and everything else. Is there anything else you would like to tell us that is not in the bio? That's important?

[Molly Feder]

You know, it's funny, I always feel like the shorter the bio, the more there is like, I'm hiding. She did time for murder.

[Bianca Murray]

I had a bio.

[Molly Feder]

I had a bio for a while that said, loves playing tennis with her husband. And my. My husband was always like, we've played tennis like twice. What are you doing? I'm like, I know, but I loved it.

[Bianca Murray]

My latest one says that I like playing escape room games in Toronto. So this is part of my murder mystery. But what it doesn't say is I'm the weakest member of the team and that I've got a really good escape room teammates, whereas I'm just the person that's like, communicate. You need to communicate. That's all I end up doing. I don't solve anything. I'm just telling people constantly to communicate.

[Molly Feder]

You're just the editor.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, I'm like the facilitator, right?

[Chime Representative]

Yeah.

[Bianca Murray]

Okay. So for those of you who are not watching on YouTube, I am holding up the COVID of the book that we're discussing today, Lady X. It's a beautiful cover. It's going to jump off a shelf, and then I'm just going to read you the flap copy so you know what we're talking about, and then Molly and I are going to dive in. So. Los Angeles, 2024. Margot Cooper's life explodes after she discovers that her A list actor husband sent explicit photos to multiple girls on social media. Desperate to get away from the world and the paparazzi, Margot flees to her childhood home with her teenage daughter in tow. But home isn't the sanctuary Margot was hoping for. In a cardboard box in the corner of the attic, she and her sister find damning evidence about a mysterious vigilante named Lady X, including a blurry newspaper photo from the 1970s of a woman who looks an awful lot like their mother. It turns out that Margot's husband isn't the only family member harboring secrets. New York City, 1977. Ginger Daughtry is living her best life with her two beloved roommates until one of them is assaulted. Astounded by the lack of response from the police, the young women take things into their own hands and find themselves igniting a movement that suddenly takes New York City by storm. Soon, what begins as a little bit of revenge against terrible men. Vandalism here and there, signed collectively. As Lady X starts to take on a life of its own, their enigmatic reputation spirals beyond their control, with copycat criminals running amok under the guise of the enigmatic Lady X. When a body is found fallen or pushed from five stories high, the Hunt reaches a boiling point, but Lady X has vanished into thin air. Okay, so, Molly, before we dive into that, can you just tell us a bit about your publishing journey? Because you've been doing this for a while. Have there been agent changes, editor changes? Take us through anything that our listeners might find useful?

[Molly Feder]

Well, yes, I. So I've been. I wrote previous to writing under the name Molly Fader. I wrote Romance for a million years under the name Molly o'. Keefe. So I've been in this business for quite some time. The kind of crazy story about Lady X is for someone who's been in this business for so long. I had written a proposal for this book, and I had sent it to the agent that I have had my entire career. And I loved, love, continue to love this agent dearly. She really, really took great care of me. And she came back and she was like, molly, I. I don't love this. And I think you need someone who loves it to sell it. And she was like, take. Take a week and we'll talk about it. And I was like, oh, my. Do I believe in this idea strong enough? You know, so, you know, do I believe in it so much that I'm willing to, you know, part ways with this agent who's been so, so very good to me? And I decided that I did, that I really believed in this idea. I was excited about it. And so we got on the phone, and I immediately started crying, and I said, I think as you do. She started crying. And at the end of it, I said, I love you. This really, like, heartbreaking breakup. So then I took some time and I really polished up the proposal as everybody, you know, I really worked. The thing that I really, really worked on was that one sentence log line, you know, so that I could put it in my query letter. And I sent out a batch of proposals, thinking, of course, with 25 years and 50 books behind my, you know, name, that this wouldn't be a problem. It was a bit of a problem. You know, a couple of nibbles, but nothing, you know, nothing completely promising. And then I went back and I reworked that log line to make sure that I got Vigilante Girl Gang 1977 in the logline. And then I was very lucky. I sent out the next batch, and I had, you know, five phone calls and five offers for representation. And, you know, my dream agency came back to me, and my dream agent said, you know, my roster is full, but we've just hired this young, hungry agent. Do you want to talk to her? And her name's Sophie Cudd from the book group. And so I had a conversation with her and I was like, you know, young and hungry. Let's, let's see how that goes. So yeah, so that's, that's how I got a new agent for this. And then in the small world of publishing, we sent it to one of my very first editors as a romance writer, Shauna Summers at Ballantine at Bantam, and she's who I'm working with now. So it's just, it is an incredible full circle moment with Lady X.

[Bianca Murray]

There is so much to unpack there. Firstly, the crying with your agent on the phone because it does feel like a breakup because if you find the right agent, it is such an intense relationship. Right. You are constantly making yourself vulnerable with this person more than you probably are with best friends in your career. And so it is a big deal when, when that happens. Two the yeah. You go, okay, I've, I've done so many books, it's not going to be a problem to find an agent and it's still difficult. But I really want to say for our listeners out there, do not go well. Molly just put together a proposal and she got an agent. So I'm going to do that. You can only do that when you have the chops and when you've got that writing experience.

[Sponsor/Host]

Right.

[Bianca Murray]

I mean, imagine you're doing that as a debut. Molly.

[Molly Feder]

No, you know, and it's so interesting. We, when I sent out the, the chapters and got a new agent, she was like, you need to write the whole book like before we go to editors. We, that it, we're going to put together the whole book. And I completely agreed. And the difference, the reality is that those first three chapters change so dramatically just by getting to the end of the book. You know, the vision that you had, the way that you were so sure it was going to work out in your head, completely different and it went through a series of changes. I was my first agent, wasn't a very hands on editorial agent and Sophie's been like incredible and crucial and has incredible ideas. So really changes. So yeah, I, I, the idea that anyone would want to send out a proposal and get a deal at this point just doesn't like you got to finish that book. I really do. You need to edit it. You need to get through a couple edits before. That's my take.

[Bianca Murray]

Sometimes more than a couple.

[Molly Feder]

Yeah, Always more than a couple.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, yeah.

[Molly Feder]

Never actually just once, just a couple.

[Bianca Murray]

So, so. And again, what you've said about the younger junior agent is so important because I think so many people are like, this is my dream agent. I want this top agent. Right. And they are so busy, they've got their existing clients. For them to take on new clients means they don't have much time to spend with a new client. And when you have a junior agent who's hungry to prove themselves and is being mentored by a really great senior agent, that's the difference. You don't just want a junior agent who. Who is floundering and no one's taking care of them. You want someone who's really being mentored by someone incredible and someone who is super hungry to work with you.

[Molly Feder]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, one of the things that is really, really important and because you're never the person I feel, really important, I feel, is that you're never the person in the room. Champion mean your book, you know, so you need all of the people who are going to champion your book to be as passionate about what you're doing as you. And so that's your agent. That is your editor, because your editor really has to fight in a room. Holy moly. So, yeah, you just a young, hungry agent. It's a lot of fun.

[Bianca Murray]

And coming back to that logline, you know, because when you said the vigilante girl gang, framing it that way, because, I mean, if you go, there's a group of three women in New York who decide to take things into their own hands, blah, blah, blah, women. Whereas you call them a vigilante girl gang. Boom, you've got the hook. And nothing has actually changed except the way you're describing them.

[Molly Feder]

Right, Exactly. The word choice in that log line, you know, and I. I can't speak for you. I can only speak for myself. But I have been in a thousand classes, a lot of workshops where it's like, we're going to work on this log line, and you work on it and you work on it and you think you get somewhere close and, you know, it feels right, but it doesn't. It lacks that like lightning in a bottle feel. And I feel like every time I get to that place, it's because I'm missing the right word. So you've got to go back and you've got to comb through it one more time and just see how much more dramatic you can make the language. Yeah. The problem. And then you write a book about a vigilante girl gang, and then the next book you're like, I don't even know another vigilante girl gang.

[Bianca Murray]

But you know, writers these days are so savvy. So I was lucky enough a few weeks ago to meet up with a writing group who had formed from some of our deep dive retreats and, you know, chatting to each other on social media. And so they were like, bianca, please come join us. They flew in from the US to Canada and got together and were like, just come join us for the day. And I did. And they begin with the logline. Like they all started off before they even started writing. They had this kick ass log line. They were like, here's my logline. And then they went into their pages. When it came turn for me to read, I was like, no, I don't need to read. And they were like, no, we want to hear what you're working on. And they were like, what's the log line? I was like, I don't know. I was like, my agent will hopefully figure that out. I was just like, it's kind of about this and it's kind of about that. And I was just so impressed that they were smarter about it because I think it helps shape the whole story if you've got that up front.

[Molly Feder]

I am a true believer in that. I really am.

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[Bianca Murray]

register for the next Beta Reader Matchup, with the Matchup emails going out on the 8th of September. As per usual, you'll be submitting 3000 words from your work in progress and I'll be matching you up with writer similar time zones and or genres. Many of the beta reader groups turn into writing groups with a lot of longevity, which is always marvelous to see. To sign up, go to my website Biancamarae Ca and go to the Beta Reader Matchup page. I look forward to matching you.

[Molly Feder]

I don't know so much that you have to have it at the beginning of your book. I do think that helps, like as a blueprint kind of thing. But you've got to have it at some point, like if you know, if you don't really know what your book is totally about until the end. That's fair. We've all been in that position. But I'm a firm believer in it. That's that. That sales brain that I've never been very good at. Because again, it helps you find champions. You know, it gives them the words to go into the rooms and. And do the fighting.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, totally. Okay, so let's begin with the prologue. I'm going to read it for everybody. Love a good prologue that works. Because remember on the podcast you're always like, no, we don't like this prologue. But that's because we say do not use a shitty Prologue as a band aid for opening chapters that are not doing the heavy lifting. So here we go. New York City is supernaturally dark. No street lights or traffic lights. The darkened buildings are looming black shadows in the indigo sky. The Milky Way is visible under southern Manhattan. And it's not natural. The night is loud with sirens and shouting. Something somewhere is burning across the street. People have gathered in the shadowy, dark park with beers and a guitar because it's cooler outside. And the rules don't apply during a citywide blackout. They don't seem to see the body on the sidewalk. They didn't hear it fall. The crescent moon is reflected in the growing puddle of blood around it. I'm sorry, she thinks, but she's not. Lady X is dead. She must be right? So let's again discuss intentionality. Did you begin with the prologue? Was it something that was added? Like, what is the purpose that it fulfills, that it had to be there and couldn't be taken out?

[Molly Feder]

So I agree 100% on the rules about the prologue. That said, I'm also very much a sucker for a prologue, so. And you're right, if it's not. If it's trying to. To fix some really crummy first chapters, it's a, you know, you've just created a mess. I knew going in that I was going to have to create these interstitials that created the lore around Lady X and, and sort of gave the reader a taste of who this made up person, you know, became. Like the, you know, when you're creating somebody who's kind of important culturally and socially. So I knew that I was going to have these interstitials. So initially it was like a, you know, a newspaper article, but that was so dry. So anyway, it just grew into this and it, you know, the stakes created the stakes. You knew going in that someone was dead. That's never a bad thing.

[Bianca Murray]

Sets the tone as well, which is. Which is awesome. Okay, so to discuss the structure of the novel, we've got. And I got to be careful, I pronounce this because everybody laughs at me because it's dual as opposed to Jewel.

[Molly Feder]

Usually say it.

[Bianca Murray]

I say Jewel. And then somebody emailed me and was like, what is a J E W E L timeline? So I'm like, okay, dual timeline and dual POV interspersed with like op eds, newspaper articles, etc. So did you know up front that that was kind of the structure you were going for? Was it something that, you know, came through in the edits? Let's speak a Bit about that as well.

[Molly Feder]

Yes. I knew it was going to be a dual timeline. Initially, it was not just the two POVs. The one woman in the past and one woman in the present. Initially in the past, like, I had a POV for everybody. I'm definitely a writer who has to pare down. I kind of start with every noodle I have at my disposal.

[Bianca Murray]

At the ambitious.

[Molly Feder]

Yeah, well, you know, I feel like you. You want every book to be ambitious. Right. Like, you're really trying to do something with every book, so you've got to see what. What works. So we pared that down and then the interstitials. I wanted every interstitial to both comment upon what they had, just what the reader had just read, and foreshadow something else without giving anything away. And some of them were just fun. Some of them I just threw in because I liked them. So, you know, every interstitial, the. The. The first rule of business was it has to create this larger than life character. It has to help create the larger than life character, and it has to keep the stakes high. And then it has to capture and encapsulate what they just read and make the pages turn to what's next. So it was an ambitious. I messed it up so many times. I still don't like when I'm reading it. I kind of skip over those because all they are is, like troubling memories to me. So, yeah, that was the hardest part. Yeah.

[Bianca Murray]

Getting that structure right is so difficult. And I'm working on something at the moment that also, for the first time, is going to require interstitials. And I've just decided I'm going to just write the story and then I'm going to come back and put in those interstitials because I'm not quite sure yet where the best place is for them. Because, like you say, it needs to do something more. It needs to move the story forward in terms of foreshadowing or whatever. So something that authors sometimes just need to play around with. And when you do a dual timeline, dual pov, there's always the risk that one timeline is going to be more compelling than the other. So it's so difficult to make sure that the readers aren't like, oh, my God, we now in this timeline, but actually I want to be in this time. So again, how do you ensure that's not the case? Do you have certain sort of action beats for each storyline that you feel like you need to hit? How do you make each one as compelling?

[Molly Feder]

You Know, it's really interesting and I'm a dual timeline fan, a reader fan. And so I was very cognizant of those books that I've read that I was like, oh, that timeline is a bummer. And there, there are reviews that people are like, man, they do not like Margot. So you know, even when you feel like you nail it other reader, you

[Bianca Murray]

know, readers can't please everyone all the time.

[Molly Feder]

Yeah. I knew that the, the present day timeline could not just be about the women finding out what happened in the past. And I feel like that is a very common mistake that writers do in dual timelines. So you, it, it's not enough to support that present day timeline is finding out the secrets. So I knew that I needed to have the women in the present day timeline really going through their own things. So having Margot's situation with her husband and kind of like coming into her own rage, that was the, the driving force with that. And also having her daughter Sky's, all the stuff that had happened with her at school. So with those two things being the real and also sky and, and Julia's forming friendship and their kind of quest to like find out who Lady X is. So I knew that I was working with those three things to keep the present day timeline afloat.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. Because the past timeline is super compelling in its, in its own right. And I thought it was so genius to have the movie star husband in the present timeline being accused of sexual harassment etc, because she could have gone home for any reason. You could have just had her there and her sister calls because the mom is not well, etc. So it could have just been mom's not well, I need you to come back. And they work through the boxes. But like you say, the stakes were raised so hugely by what this movie star husband does. And what I loved as well is that he was once very famous. Then he wasn't famous for the longest time because he wasn't getting parts and he was at home and, and whatever. And then suddenly his star rose again, which made it even more interesting. So again, was that something that you knew up front had to be the case. Why have it that he's not just his stars rising now? Why have it that he's, you know, he was famous then, wasn't then is again. Because I love looking at the intentionality of everything that a writer chooses to do.

[Molly Feder]

Well, I, I, that's a, that's a really great question. Wanted Margot to wrestle with not just having a husband. You know, Margot has every privilege. She is Rich, she is white. She, you know, has wealth and means and men. The, the man in her life still knocks her feet out from under her. So I wanted to show that, you know, women aren't necessarily safe in lots of different kinds of situations. So I, and I also wanted, as a woman who's 50, like wrestling with. This is not just a betrayal of me. This is a betrayal of everything we have built. This is my family. You know, I'm a 50 year old woman, I have two kids, I have a husband, and that's a lot of my identity. Like, I don't know a 50 year old woman in the same boat who, who isn't. So when something like this happens, you know, you can't just walk away, no matter how betrayed and gross and awful this person you married is. Like, you need a minute to go, how do I reframe who I am without this person? So I wanted, that was an interesting dilemma to me. And, and sort of showing an older, you know, a middle aged woman versus the young women in the, in the 70s was sort of interesting. Who's, whose whole. Who were dealing with some very big stuff, but who were like, let's burn it down. Like two women of those three were like, immediately burn it all down. And I just was really interested in Margot who was like, I can't. How, how do I burn it down? Can I burn it down? What does it mean if I burn it down and that she ends up burning it down? It's just satisfying to me.

[Bianca Murray]

But I can't understand that people had a problem with, with her pov. It just shows you how subjective this all is. Yeah, because excellent character arc. If she started off a certain way and ended up a certain way, then okay, fine, she's frustrating. You know, you kind of want to shake her. But like, you read to see how a character overcomes adversity and how they evolve and you know, how they grow in the process and what, some readers just didn't like that.

[Molly Feder]

Indeed. I mean, it's not a lot, but there are, there are, there are some who, yeah, they wanted, they wanted Margot to be tougher right off the bat. And you know, that's a, that's just not. I don't even think I would deal, you know, putting yourself in those shoes, like, it's just so traumatic. So anyway, it's an interesting, it's always interesting to see what readers are going to think about. It's also. Maybe younger readers too feel that way.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, talking about generational differences. So you have an Ensemble cast in each timeline. You know, great secondary characters that are super compelling, that affect the plot in so many ways. It's not just they're kind of there as puppets, they also have agency, they also affect the plot. And I love how we had the different generational perspectives. So even though sky is not like a POV character, we. So for our listener, sky is Margo's daughter. Just like, seeing her take on things compared to her mom's take on things was really great. There was a lot of social commentary there as well.

[Molly Feder]

Yeah, it's interesting. It, I mean, I don't know how your brain works as you're building a book, but I, I often walk around with like two or three kind of ideas or things that I'm thinking about. And obviously with this book, you know, we had just watched this election in the United States, the overturning of our Roe v. Wade. And so like a lot of women, I was just walking around very angry. You know, the Epstein 5. All of it, all of it, like a lot of women. And then at the same time, my daughter was in middle school and like every girl in middle school since the dawn of time, since the dawn of middle school was getting harassed by this boy. A group of her friends were getting harassed by this boy. And, and I, you know, you know, go to the teacher, I went to the teacher. You know, all these things that I found coming out of my mouth that were the same things that my mother said to me, right? Ignore him and it'll go away. Right. Like, to my great shame, I said this to my daughter. And my daughter and her friends were like, no. And they went to the principal and the kid got in a lot of trouble and was expelled for a little bit, got some help. Like they did the right thing. And I just thought, oh my, if anything's really going to change what I, what I did there has to change. Like we're, that was a part of the problem as much as like letting these boys grow into men who get away with this stuff is what mothers who, with daughters in middle schools have been helping make happen. So that was a real eye openening experience for me. And I was so proud of my daughter and proud of her friends for, for not putting up with it. So I had those two things kind of swimming around in my head that I wanted to talk about.

[Bianca Murray]

Yeah. And it's, it's amazing how what's going on in their personal lives for each of them is mirroring this greater political movement in the background. You know, for the 70s timeline and for the present day timeline, I actually googled, was Lady X real? You know, because you built her so brilliantly. You built the. The infamy so brilliantly that I was like, oh, this. This has to be real. So was that inspired by somebody at that time or you just made that shit up?

[Molly Feder]

I made that shit up. I mean, it was having those two ideas, my anger and my. The situation with my daughter and how I was, you know, a part of a long line of enablers. And then the Taylor Swift song vigilante shit came into the world. And so that was the sort of lightning strike that built. That put all of this together. But I knew. I mean, I do think the thing that the Lady X, I've heard that before, that I googled it. It's the hard work on those interstitials I really like as a person, as you're going into it, just work as hard as you can at nailing it because you. It really does create that. That world, that lore. So, yeah, I just made her up. But

[Bianca Murray]

such an excellent job when people are googling, is this real? You know, you've absolutely nailed it. We're. We're at our time somehow. So I'm holding up the book again, Lady X. You can get it on our bookshop.org affiliate page. And if you get it there, supports an independent bookstore and the podcast at the same time. Pick up this book. There is just. It's. There's so much happening. It's just. It's incredible. It'll give you all the feels. And yeah, it helped with. Give me a. Somewhere to vent for my own rage, which was awesome because the thing with fiction is you can see justice prevailing. And in real life, generally, that doesn't happen. And that's what's so satisfying about a book like this.

[Sponsor/Host]

Yeah.

[Molly Feder]

And as we're. As we're all like, we all need some hope, right? We really need some hope that this dark. These dark days will change. And I, you know, I really hope Lady X helps with that.

[Bianca Murray]

And that's it for today's episode. I hope you'll join us for next week's show. In the meantime, keep at it. Remember, it just takes one. Yes.