← The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
The Shit No One Tells You About Writing
When Intrigue Turns Into Confusion
00:30:59
Books with Hooks, Bianca, Carly and Cece
Loading summary
Transcript46 lines
- [00:01]
Bianca Marae
Have you been sitting on the fence about signing up for the Beta Reader matchup? Or have you signed up before but haven't yet found your writing soulmates? The next matchup is the last one for the summer, so don't snooze on it. Get matched up with those writing in a similar genre and or time zone so they can critique your work as you critique theirs. Your manuscript doesn't have to be complete to sign up for this 3,000 word evaluation. This particular matchup will be open to registrations from now until the 1st of June, with the matchup emails going out on the 2nd of June. For more information and to register, go to Biancamarae.com and go to the Beta Reader Matchup page.
- [00:45]
Cece Lera
What's up everyone? This is cece. So I recently grabbed lunch with an acquiring editor from HarperCollins who told me that the number of submissions she's been getting has nearly doubled. And I wasn't surprised at all because every agent and editor I know has been talking about how the volume of submission keeps increasing. So, personally, that is a wonderful thing because it's more reading for me, but it also means I have more chances of matching with authors. I consider it a privilege to review queries on books with hooks and of course, in my submissions inbox. But at the same time I talk to writers who tell me that they wish agents would read more than a few pages because, and I quote, my story gets better in chapter two. I have to be honest, this kills me. It's like me wanting chocolate chip cookies to have the nutritional value of kale. It's just not realistic. Like it or not, no agent, no acquiring editor is going to stick around to see if a submission gets better. It's not because we're mean, it's because we get dozens and dozens every day. I know it's harsh, but ambitious writers embrace harsh realities. So here it goes. It's your job to make your opening pages irresistible, to make agents crave it, to make agents want to read more. That's why I'm so excited about my upcoming course. Starting it how to begin your story in the best place and in the best way. I created this course after studying hundreds of books. I've mapped out elements that are present in the beginning of all all successful novels and memoirs. And I've designed checklists, actual checklists that you can use to ensure that your story's beginning is seducing your reader. We'll cover how to write a great first line, different types of beginnings, and how you can choose the best one, the best place to start and the best way to start. Yes, these are totally different things. When it makes sense to add a prologue and when it doesn't. How to frame your inciting incident in an appealing way, how to balance exposition and mystery, how to include context but not weigh it down with too much backstory and what to do if your story has more than one POV or timeline. Most of all, I'm going to show you how to make readers want to turn to Chapter two. Join me for this multi day course designed to help you break through the noise. You'll leave with a clear, actionable breakdown of exactly what goes into a terrific beginning. If you've already signed up, come prepared to take lots of notes. We're talking hundreds of slides with real world examples and specific techniques.
- [03:30]
Plus a super fun surprise that I
- [03:33]
can't wait to share. I hope to see you there.
- [03:46]
Bianca Marae
Hi there and welcome to our show the Shit no One Tells you About Writing. I'm best selling author Bianca and I'm joined by Cece Lera of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of P.S. literary. Hi everyone, welcome back to another bookswith. We are starting off as we usually do by diving straight in. Cece, can you please kick us off with your query letter?
- [04:12]
Cece Lera
Let's do this. Dear CeCe, Years after a tragic event tore them apart, two former best friends finally fall in love just as the past rises up, threatening to destroy their relationship forever. I am writing to seek representation for how to Be Good, a dual point of view, accessible literary novel of 94,000 words. It will appeal to readers who enjoyed the evolving intimacy of Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin, the morally complex characters in Heart the Lover by Lilly King, and the vivid sense of play Place in the Paper palace by Miranda Cowley Heller. I notice that you are looking for literary novels with morally ambiguous protagonists as well as dysfunctional families, and I think this will be of interest to you. Thank you for everything you do on the podcast. You have transformed the interiority in my writing. In particular, Esther and Louis grew up in households where love was conditional, so their unconditional love for each other was everything. Until at 13, Louis sent their classmate plunging from a cliff. Esther wanted to believe it was an accident, but she saw what happened. Their friendship tore apart. One sweltering summer. Ten years on, Esther and Louis return to the coastal English village where they grew up and where their friendship imploded. Both still live in the shadow of their overbearing families. Louis is shame hemmed into doubting his dream job offer. While Esther's mom insists she continue the career that's destroying her, rekindling a friendship with one person who truly understands is sweet relief. They become close. Neither mentions what happens on the cliffs. As the heat intensifies, they teeter on the edge of falling in love. But Louis's reluctance to talk about the incident that destroyed their original friendship unnerves Esther. She can't go on without knowing why he acted the way he did on those cliffs. But Louis can only live with himself by suppressing the memory. As summer wanes, he can save their friendship by giving Esther the explanation she must have or will revisiting the past destroy the closest bond they've ever known, this time forever. I've been writing for 15 years and have had some success with fiction competitions, including a place on a previously mislexia adult novel competition longlist. I currently work part time as a doctor in Oxford, England, so I can write on my days off and live on a village at the edge of the Cotswolds with my husband and imaginary cat. We're about to move and get a real one. Thank you for your consideration, Claire.
- [06:56]
Bianca Marae
Awesome, Cece. Thank you. What was the word count there? And then tell us your take on that.
- [07:01]
Cece Lera
The word count was drum rolls as I am counting as I look at the manuscript. 428 words on the long side. Although I must be honest, it didn't feel like a long query letter to me. It's one of those things where you could have a high word count, but the reading could feel like it went by really fast. It's kind of like time. Sometimes five minutes can feel like an hour, and five minutes can feel like 30 seconds. And so it's so much of it is how we feel. Okay, from the top, you are calling this an accessible literary novel. And then my brain just opened up like 12 different tabs when you said this. So part of me is like, wait, but that's suggesting that if you don't say it's accessible, that literary fiction isn't accessible. And I don't know that I like that. Part of me is like, well, just, who cares? Like, literary fiction is like all genres, something that's not for everyone. So maybe this person's saying that, you know, it has crossover appeal to readers of other categories. I don't know. I have 12 tabs open on my brain right now and I will not go through each of the 12 tabs because that is exhausting. I don't know how I feel about that term. To be clear, it would never Dissuade me from reading a query letter or appreciating the pages. Like, the point of this podcast is to dissect the query letter, which is what I'm doing. But this would not be something that would bother me if this were a slush pile situation. Really. Thank you so much for your kind words. As we record this, I am halfway through my interiority course, so the fact that I have transformed the interiority in your writing is really, really sweet. Thank you so much. I loved the disruption. Like, the whole, oh, these two people, you know, they grew up in houses where love was conditional, and then they have unconditional love for each other. Doesn't that seem sweet? So my brain is going down this road of, oh, this is going to be a sweet story. Oh, how sweet. And then one of them sees the other pushing someone off a cliff. Now, that is very surprising to the brain. The reader brain likes surprises. So that was very, very good. I really liked that. It made me wonder, though, as I finished reading about the plot, is it dual timeline? Because I don't know if there's enough plot in the present day timeline. Just because, like, okay, they rekindle and then what? Like, we spend however many words. I already forgot 94,000 words. Do we spend 90,000 words or 85,000 words with them? Just figuring out what happened in the past. Kind of like rehashing the past. It's not that you can't do that in literary fiction. There's so many literary novels out there that have very little plot and just tons of character, and it's all about the execution. So it's not that it's necessarily a problem, but something that I'm always on the lookout for is, you know, are there sufficient plot points to, I guess, keep the reader turning the pages? And then if the plot points are the reason to turn the pages, what else is going to be the reason? And we talk about that when we talk about the pages. I also really liked the comment about the imaginary cat. That was really sweet. So thank you for sharing.
- [09:42]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Cece. Okay, Carly, handing it across to you.
- [09:45]
Carly Waters
All right, so I really like this title, how to Be Good. I'm not entirely sure that I understand how it relates to the rest of the book necessarily, but it is a good title. And once we read the pages, I think it's a bit more clear. But in the query, I didn't really understand the title, but it is a good title, so I'm, like, a little bit torn about it. But good titles can get you Pretty far, especially at this stage. So good job for a good title. I agreed with cece, like, do we need this word accessible? What is it doing? Especially so early in the query letter? If you have any sort of word early in the query letter that can, you know, provide an agent with any reason to pause, you really have to think about whether you need that word. So if both of us are kind of stumbling on that word, that's something to think about. Now, dual pov that suggests that both sides, Esther and Lewis, we have their equal point of view into this situation. What I struggle with about here is everything hinges on Lewis sent their classmate plunging from a cliff. If we get Lewis's point of view about what happens, then we're going to know really early on the crux of everything. So the reader's kind of getting what they want really early. So then what's potentially the point of reading the rest of the book? Or if you do dual POV and don't tell us till the very end, what was the situation that led Lewis to send the classmate plunging off a cliff? Then you have the reader on the hook for the entire novel and the reader is going to think, well, why didn't you just tell me about what happened on the cliff? So I. Cece wants to jump in here. What do you think?
- [11:20]
Cece Lera
I mean, Wild Dark Shore did it, right? Like, we know, like we have everyone's POVs and we know what happened to Hank from the beginning. I mean, we don't know, but the characters know and they withhold it, the whole novel. And it works. So it's possible.
- [11:33]
Bianca Marae
That's the thing.
- [11:34]
Carly Waters
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [11:35]
Cece Lera
No, no, no. 100%. I'm just, I'm just saying, like, it's so hard to pull off, but it can't be done.
- [11:40]
Carly Waters
Yes, totally agree. Exactly. So hard to pull off. Totally can be done. And the fact that cece is citing a best selling novel written by a very talented author suggests that is such the caliber in which is required to be able to pull that off. So I, I never say that something can't be done. I always want to be surprised and I always want somebody to pull it off. But I'm just making sure that the author understands how high the bar is here. To pull this off without irritating the reader while keeping us entertained. It's just a tall order, right? There's no reason why anybody needs to shy away from a tall order by any means. But I can see how this could be a struggle. And I think this, there's a lot of ways that this could fall apart, I guess, would be my main note. And also the reader is gonna think, which is a classic love story question, which is, why can't these two just sit down and talk? Like, classic love story thing, where you're like, what is it that these people can fall in love with each other and yet not talk to each other? And literary fiction can do this really well because there's so much of that, like, cerebral, and we're in our own head. And it's possible. It's all possible. But the fact that this person had accessible literary fiction in the opening line makes me wonder how all of this is going to come together. Those are kind of all of the thoughts that are swimming in my head here in terms of the author bio. Genuine, like, genuinely love it. I have a question about. I've been writing for 15 years. That part I'm a bit like, huh, you've had some success with the fiction competitions. Dyslexia is a British women's magazine, which I know of. Why the 15 years? Like, is it a classic case of, like, I want to talk about how I've been writing for so long? Or because my agent brain thinks, what made you turn from casual hobby author to wanting to be a novelist? I wonder about that shift in the mentality and why now. I wonder about a lot of that. I'm assuming it's because maybe you were doing your medical training and now you have more time, and this is how you want to balance your life between medicine and creativity. But those are some things that go through my head.
- [13:40]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Carly. Okay, Cece, will you let us know what was in those opening pages?
- [13:46]
Cece Lera
Okay, let's do this. So we have Esther, our protagonist, just thinking, just in her head, dreaming of the surf. The fact that her ankle is hurt, that she won't be able to surf, that it's a problem. And then she sees something in her peripheral vision, and she looks and meters away, there's a pair of women in an orange picnic blanket. And what transpires is that they just got engaged. Yay. But they. One of the. You know, the one who got the ring, lost the ring, can't find the ring. And they're like, oh, my God, where's our ring? And Esther actually sees the ring, but doesn't tell them, just doesn't tell them at all. And she thinks to herself, you know, in her head, through interiority, she thinks that she doesn't have the. The gene to be a doctor. She doesn't use the term gene. But to be a Good doctor. You have to want the best for people. But she doesn't. She just doesn't have it. And then she goes back afterwards to get the ring, presumably, or to look for the ring, but the ring isn't there. And then she imagines the women finding the ring. And then she also thinks about the doctors that she works with, Lila and Kimberly, and how they really care about their patients. They remember their names and stuff, but, you know, Esther doesn't. And she really wants to quit, but she has the opportunity to do good as a doctor, so that's her situation.
- [15:07]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Cece. Sounds like a lot of interiority there. And you are the queen of interiority. So tell us what you think.
- [15:14]
Cece Lera
I want to make something clear before I go on to my notes. It's so well written. Like, it's very well written. This person can write very well. I did have, like, some line level stuff that I caught, like, some repetition that didn't feel intentional. But it's so minor. We're talking copy edits. Such minor things. It is very, very, very well written. I believe that I was inside a real person's head. I did. It is. It is incredibly well crafted. I think the submission is a really good opportunity to talk about surprise, the role of surprise in storytelling, especially in the first five pages. Surprise is essential for storytelling in all elements, including the beginning. And here we do have something that's very surprising. Our protagonist finds an engagement ring that these two people are clearly looking for. And instead of picking it up and giving it to them, our protagonist just keeps walking away. She doesn't give them the ring. Doesn't even say, hey, the ring is here. And that is surprising because as a reader, you expect her to go, hold on here, let me help you. However, in order for the surprise to truly be leveraged, you know, in order for you to take advantage of that, this great plot that you included, I need some indication in her interiority of how she's processing this. And I'm not saying I want the fulsome answer about, you know, why she's doing this with the root cause in her foundational wound. That'd be too much for the first five pages. But I want hints. I want little sprinkles of hints. For example, it could be a thought about how one year ago she would have been on her knees picking up the ring and handing it back to them with a smile on her face. But ever since what happened? She can't. Bam. Curiosity seed. Now I'm like, ooh, what happened a year ago? Or it could be a thought about how she's doing them a favor, how maybe they won't keep being engaged if they don't find the ring because marriage doesn't work. So now I know about her relationship to marriage. It could be something completely different. But my point is, in order for surprise to truly, truly, truly be leveraged to its fullest potential, I can't just have the character do something that's surprising. I need to see how they process that with some hints that make me curious. I don't need to understand why a character did what they did. That is not essential in the first five pages at all. I do need to have a sense of why they think they did it or what is orbiting around their why. Like, I don't have to agree with them at all, at all. At all. But I have to have those hazy contours of their reasons at reach so that I can go, hmm, okay. And I'm going to fit all these puzzles together, all these puzzle pieces together to make a person in my head. Okay? So my second note. We have her thinking a lot, a lot about how she isn't cut out for this doctor thing, you know, and there are. There's some really insightful paragraphs about this. Very well written. I highlighted it. Our substack supporters will be able to see it where I'm highlighting it and going, oh, my God, this is so insightful. I love this. So is great. Towards the end, there's another reference to it. You know, there's. I'm going to read a little bit from it. They really care about their patients. They remember their names. They remember their diagnoses. Esther doesn't remember details. Everyone seems to have a chest infection. And at this point, I'm like, okay. It is interesting that she's the outsider. Smart story setup. Everyone else is born to be a doctor in her mind, but she isn't. This feeling of being an outsider, very powerful. But what does she make of it? Like, I need a little bit more of what she makes of it, because this is literary fiction, right? And literary fiction. The truth is that since the plot isn't what keeps us turning the pages, it's the depth. It's not about moving the story forward so much as it is about moving the story deeper all the time. And I need that depth in order to think that, okay, I can spend 95,000 words. So, again, really strong writing. Very, very strong setup. I am. I am curious. Like, I did read this, and I go, huh? I would have kept on reading, like, good Job. I do wonder, however, whether. And again, this is why I need to know where. Where authors are in the process. But I do wonder, where are you in the whole process? You know, like, is this, like, a third draft? Is this a first draft? Like, where. Where are you in your process? Because if you're early on, then none of my notes probably are going to be surprising to you because you're like, yeah, I'm figuring this out. But if you're like, I'm querying, then I think that you might be querying too early because I don't quite see the depth in first five pages. Maybe it's. It's different later that I would need to see.
- [19:31]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Cece. Okay, Carly, across to you now.
- [19:35]
Carly Waters
All right. I feel like the query and the opening pages aren't fully matching up because I was pitched a book that was very focused on relationships and potentially this friendship, love story. And then I felt like these opening pages, I felt so distant from this character and her. The choice about why she chose to walk away from that engagement ring that she saw. She suggests that by watching this potential engagement that, you know, she. She has these. I don't know, kind of feelings about watching it, whether she should be helpful, whether she shouldn't. But we never really get to the heart of what was pitched to me in the query letter. Like, to me, if I saw this query letter, Man Box requested the pages which I sent to my Kindle, which I would read later, I would forget what book this was related to based on the query that I requested. Like, I. I'm feeling like these are very separate concepts, which makes me wonder. Yeah. Where we are in the process. Is this book finished? Are we pitching a book that is imagined to be versus the book that it is? I have a lot of thoughts about that. But coming back to the actual pages that are in front of me, I agree with cece. The most interesting point of these pages is when she finds the ring but walks by it. That is incredible. That is like, you know, claps to you. I don't know if you can hear me clapping on my microphone. That is great. I absolutely loved that part. That was very, very well done. The rest of it, I just felt so distant from her because she still felt so distant from her own life. And when you pitched me an accessible literary novel and I felt actually very far away from this character, I struggled with that a little bit. This is a classic case of this book was pitched to cece, and this book was not pitched to Carly. And there are reasons why you pitch different agents for different things. Because I really like the idea of a complic love story. But what I'm seeing here is really starts off very internal, suggesting to be internal. But again, I actually feel very distant from her because she feels like she's sleepwalking through her life. So I feel like I'm watching somebody sleepwalk through their life a little bit, which just felt really distant for me personally. Classic case of somebody's taste is one way somebody else's taste is gonna be different way. And that's why you pitch different agents. Because I think cece could see more of the interiority and the depth depth that was there that I could see as somebody who reads a bit more for where we're going in the novel in these opening pages. So those are my thoughts.
- [22:01]
Cece Lera
Thank you.
- [22:01]
Bianca Marae
Okay, now a word from our sponsors.
- [22:05]
Carly Waters
Travel season is almost here. I've got my packing list and I'm ready to go. We just got back from a family weekend trip to Quebec to work on our French. Up next, a summer trip to Germany to introduce the kids to the Alps and hear a new language. Plus our 10th anniversary trip to Italy later this year. I love hearing my Italian husband speak Italian. If you have travel coming up, join me in using Rosetta A. Stone to learn some local languages. There's something about summer that just feels like travel. Shake off the winter and get ready to move. Learning a new language is the perfect way to channel that momentum into a skill that opens up the world. Rosetta Stone has been a trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive methods help you naturally absorb your new language without memorizing random vocabulary lists or relying on translations. Instead, you learn by connecting words, visuals and meaning in context, the way language is meant to be learned. Working in the publishing business means my days are often packed with meetings and manuscripts, but I love how simple lessons are to fit into my schedule. Whether I have five minutes between emails or an hour on the weekend, I can access my lessons from my desktop or the mobile app. Since we're heading to Italy, I've been using my true accent, which gives me real time feedback on my pronunciation so I can sound more natural when we're visiting local vineyards. It's like having a personal coach to help me communicate with confidence. Rosetta Stone offers 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German and Japanese, so you can find one that fits your next big adventure. Ready to start learning a new language this summer? Visit Rosetta Stone.com today today to explore Rosetta Stone and choose the language that's right for you. Go to Rosetta Stone.com today now and begin your language learning journey. Between school drop offs, hitting the gym and diving into client calls, I don't have the mental bandwidth for a wardrobe crisis. I need pieces that feel effortless and comfortable but still look sharp. Quince has been my go to for that, especially now as I'm counting the down the days until the summer finally hits. Their elevated fabrics make me feel put together without liking. It's that rare combo when I know I look good whether I'm chasing around my kids or sitting down for a meeting. Right now I'm in the thick of balancing client work and triathlon training sessions, so my spring wardrobe has to do double duty. Quince makes that transition really easy with pieces that feel as good as they look. They're using high end quality 100 European linen, organic cotton and ultra soft denim which is exactly what I need when I want to look sharp without feeling restricted. I'm a huge fan of wear on repeat items and Quince's linen collection is the gold standard for that. Their lightweight pants, dresses and tops just started $30. They're breathable, effortless, which is a lifesaver. Whether I'm recording an episode, headed to the gym or just keeping up with my kids. It's an instant outfit that makes it getting out the door so much easier. If you're like me and appreciate a smart financial move, you're going to love their model. Because everything at Quinn's is priced 50 to 80% less than similar luxury brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen so you're actually paying for the quality and craftsmanship rather than a brand markup. It's a high end style that actually makes sense for a busy budget. I'm so eager for the weather to warm up so I can get my linen shorts on machine. Washable linen I can wear every day. Sign me up. I bought them in black so they'll look classy with a black slide sandal. Or I can pop on some running shoes and chase after the kids to the park. And the price I had to double check because I was shocked at how affordable they are. I can't wait to wear my black linen shorts. Refresh your everyday with luxury you'll actually use. Head to quince.com tisnotya for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q I N C E.com tsnatya for free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com tisnaya okay Carly, we're now handing
- [25:32]
Bianca Marae
it across to you. Let's hear your query letter.
- [25:35]
Carly Waters
Dear Carly and Cece, thank you so much for all you do for writers in Somewhere Only We Know my YA Contemporary romance with survival elements A girl who doesn't believe in love gets stranded on a deserted island with the one boy she tried to avoid. As they fight to survive, she's forced to confront the grief that made her stop believing in love and the boy she might be falling for. Complete at 62,000 words and said in the tropical islands of French Polynesia, it will appeal to fans of Nicola Yoon and K.L. walther. 18 year old Emmy Davis stopped believing in love the day her mom died two years ago. If she's learned anything from grief, it's this Letting people in only leads to losing them. And if that's the case, why bother? So when she heads to a South Pacific island for her high school grad trip, all she's looking for is a decent tan, time to herself and maybe a fruity drink with a tiny umbrella. What she's not prepared for is fellow hotel guests Ben Fox. Annoyingly hot and somehow impossible to ignore, Ben has troubles of his own and yet he's a master at getting under her skin in all the wrong or maybe right ways. She vows to avoid him, but when a snorkeling trip goes horribly wrong, she ends up stranded with him on a deserted island. Relying on Ben for survival means actually talking to him and trusting him, and she'd rather drink sand than do either. But with no food, water or rescue in sight, Emmy's arms length policy crumbles. As the days stretch on amidst the palm trees and turquoise water, their connection grows, making it harder to keep her guard up. Emmy must decide if falling for him is a bigger threat than the island itself or the only thing keeping them alive in a place that doesn't care if they make it home. I'm originally from Los Angeles, which inspired Emmy's hometown setting. My experience as a critical care nurse helped shape the physical realities of Emmy and Ben's struggle to survive. I'm a member of SCBWI and have a degree in English Creative Writing from the University of Southern California. Thank you for your time and consideration.
- [27:19]
Bianca Marae
Awesome Carly. Thank you. What was our word can there?
- [27:23]
Carly Waters
So we came in at 380 words. All right, so the title somewhere only we know this is a reference to a song that millennials know. I don't know if this is a reference that the gen is going to Be Gen Z's? Wouldn't be Gen Alphas reading this yet? How old are Gen Gen Alphas? Old Gen Alphas, Young Gen Z's? I don't know my YA age group at this point, but would they get this reference? Maybe, maybe not. Is that important? Maybe, maybe not. It could just be a lovely line and that's completely fine as well. So this gets stranded on a deserted island business. This requires immediate suspension of belief, which is tough. It is not impossible. And I actually think you do a really good job at this because we think in this day and age it's actually really impossible to be stranded on a deserted island. Obviously in the Polynesian islands, there are so many of them that I actually, I will, I will get to this. But I actually do believe this story. So, you know, you. I think you did a good job at the suspension of belief, which is good. The word count, 62,000 words. There's a. There's a lot to happen in 62,000 words, actually, which I think is a good thing. So I'm definitely excited to see how much we actually accomplish in 62,000 words. I think this, I think that's great. Time period. You don't suggest. Oh, you do say contemporary. Yeah, contemporary. So we're going to suggest that they have phones again, which comes back to this whole, would teenagers be willing to put down their phone for a snorkeling trip so that they could end up being deserted again? I think that you do a good job at this, but just flagging, you know, for some people that might be hard for them to believe. Hotel guest Ben Fox. What gives me a tiny bit of ick is that you don't actually say how old he is. You just say fellow hotel guest. I think you need to drop a teen. Is he a teen? Is he young? Like low twenties? I don't know. I'm like, do we need an age drop here just to frame this a little bit better as, you know, whether they're relationally suited. Question mark, you know, doesn't need to be answered necessarily. I'm just flagging that as something that I had a question mark about. I think one of my biggest question marks about this query, and I actually really like this query, is just the tone. Is this supposed to be cute? Is it supposed to be suspenseful? It could be both, but I'm actually not sure about the balance between these two things. I think it's going to be a really intense novel, which sounds great, but, you know, should we be thinking that they're not going to survive? Or is it a romance where it's a happily ever after ending? Because all romance have a happily ever after ending. So I'm just not sure our balance of suspense and happily ever after and what exactly that tone is going to be. Because there's a lot of cute travel novels, but the fact that they're for days with no food and water and rescue. And then you say in your author bio, your critical care nurse experience helped shape your understanding of this. I'm like, how dark are we going here? So I'm not sure. I. I'd like a little bit of a nod to how dark, how suspenseful, you know, in terms of that balance. I would love to know that, but I thought it was really strong.
- [30:21]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Carly. Okay, Cece, your thoughts?
- [30:24]
Cece Lera
I was really curious when I read this. I thought it was a really strong query letter. Good job. Good, good job. To the author. I have, like, the tiniest note for you. Like, it's so tiny. So there's a line that reads, relying on Ben for survival means actually talking to him and trusting him, and she'd rather drink sand than do either. Wouldn't it be relying on each other for survival? I mean, first, as a feminist, let us not say that it is just the girl relying on the boy. Right? Let's just say that. And as a feminist, cc, don't say girl. She's a woman.
- [30:53]
Bianca Marae
Woman.
- [30:54]
Cece Lera
I'm sorry. But also, it's not just the fact that she has to rely on him that's weighing on her. It's the fact that he has to rely on her. Having to help someone, having to be there for someone is a toll on people as well. So actually, emotionally speaking, I do think that we should be highlighting, you know, both sides of this. It is a very small thing. But again, point of the podcast, I guess, is to. To point out all the things big and small. But, yeah, really good job.
- [31:18]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Cece. Okay, Carly, what was in those opening pages?
- [31:23]
Carly Waters
All right, so we open with our main character at work. She is working at some sort of store. I'm assuming it's a retail experience of some kind. She's. Because she's folding clothes and there's jewelry. She also seems to work with her basket best friend. And the two of them are kind of chatting as they're working. Their shift's almost over. They're counting down the hours. Her best friend's boyfriend comes in. They chat to them a little bit. And then her mom, who we know has passed away, her friend comes into the store, which Triggers our protagonist to want to just run away and admits all this. They're kind of just chatting about their boyfriends in high school and the trip that she's going to be leaving on tomorrow. More.
- [32:01]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Carly. Okay, what was your take on that? Right place to start.
- [32:06]
Carly Waters
I really liked this. I thought that was really strong. I think the teen banter. I made a note about like the teen banter because I'm like, I'm, I'm like a 38 year old woman and I wrote like lol in my comments. So clearly I'm probably cringe for just like typing the words lol. But I did really like the banter. I thought it was very teen authentic to the best of my abilities as not being a teenager. But I really, I liked it. I thought it was really strong. I like the interaction between the two of them. I really liked the line because she's talking about how her friend, her best friend has a boyfriend now and she says, you know, but she's into him. So I'm trying to be supportive, even though I think it's a mistake. Most relationships are. I love that she just like, you know, has these strong opinions and she's just like, you know, don't want to bother with that. I think a lot of teen girls can relate to that moment where their best friend gets a boyfriend and they're like, well, don't want to deal with that. Overall, I thought it was really strong. I didn't really make a lot of notes. You know, I was really curious by the end about why when she sees her mom's former best friends, her mom passed away, you know, sees the mum's best friend walk in. Why? Her instinct wasn't to talk to her instinct was to run. Love that, you know, I mean, clearly she's a teenager and feeling all of her feelings. So I felt like this was a very accurate portrayal of a teen experience. And I didn't really have a lot of, you know, inline notes other than, you know, am I cringe for writing lol.
- [33:24]
Bianca Marae
Thank you, Carly. Okay, Cece, handing it across to you,
- [33:28]
Cece Lera
you are not cringe. Carly, as the youngest one of our group, you are not cringe. Because if you're cringe, we're cringe and we can't be cringe. Our first line, our first line reads, whoever said you can't outrun grief? Well, I've got a boarding pass and tanning oil that says otherwise. It's a good line. I like it. I don't think it's your first line. I worry it's a little too on the nose, thematically speaking. I would would have preferred to be surprised by her reason for going on this trip. I think the reader brain would most likely assume a teenager is really looking forward to getting away because she wants to get away from some boy or because she's looking forward to an adventure or, like, all these teen reasons. And then we could have had the surprise of her reason being grief when her mom's friend comes into the store. And that would have, like, recalibrated everything in my brain. And that would have been a more, in my opinion, of course, just, I guess, more powerful way of introducing the themes of grief and how she's trying to outrun grief. It just felt way too. When I say on the nose, I think, honestly, if I were a listener, I'd be like, this is very confusing to me. Like, I'm supposed to deliver pages that match the query letter, but it can't be on the nose. I just mean at the same time that you do have to deliver pages that match the query letter. We can't be unsurprised by all the five pages. Like, we need. We need to discover something in the first five pages. And so I think that if you were to set it up in the way that I'm suggesting or any other way that that would reveal surprise, it could be a little bit stronger. Also, when she was talking to her friend, like, the dialogue, I was curious about what she was not saying. I'm always looking for what's being left unsaid. The most obvious example of that is, you know, she's taking her friend. She's telling her friend, you know, take it up with my dad. Maybe you can convince him that you can come on the trip. But, like, is her interiority going? Actually, I'm looking forward to being alone, and she wants to kind of, like, maybe spare her friend's feelings, or maybe she's going to. I really do hope she'll talk to my dad because I really want her there. Like, just extra layers. And the layers don't have to be contradiction. It doesn't have to be like her saying A and meaning B. It could be her saying A and then her interiority giving us just more context on the intensity of A and the importance of A. But, yeah, otherwise, again, really strong. We had some really strong submissions today. I felt there was a whole paragraph, not even a paragraph more, that I highlighted. Substack supporters will see it where just the way you introduced a surprise, a disruption to the protagonist was really strong. You were zooming in and zooming out in a really masterful way, and it was very conversational and fun. So good job.
- [36:03]
Bianca Marae
Thank you so much, CeCe. Just a reminder to our listeners that we've now got the meet your dream agent segment in our substack and it's so interesting already to see the contradiction advice and the contradictory takes that we have in terms of query preferences and what an agent thinks about voicy queries compared to what another agent thinks. So this is an excellent way for you to get to know agents a lot better because they answer a ton of questions, some of them give excerpts from query letters they've received, but it's also a great way, again, to see the subjectivity that we're constantly speaking about.
- [36:42]
Cece Lera
Basically, you're saying it's a great way to be confused. It's a great way to be confused. Everyone go look at our substack. Go be confused.
- [36:49]
Bianca Marae
No, it's a great way to meet the perfect agent for you, because when you feel like your feelings on something aligns with someone else's feelings on something, then it feels like a love match. And the problem is with querying is that you don't know very much about agents. You can see their manuscript wish list and you can kind of follow them on socials, but you don't really get into the nitty gritty of the things that really make their hearts flutter when they get a query letter. So definitely subscribe to the substack for that to see the different takes on that and maybe you will find the one right? Carly and cc, thank you so much as always for your excellent advice and we will see you next week for our awesome associates. Hi everyone. If you'd like to query CC, please refer to the submission guidelines@www.wsherman.com. carly Waters is a literary agent at P.S. literary Agency, but her work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Carly on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS Literary Agency. Have you been sitting on the fence about signing up for the Beta reader matchup? Or have you signed up before but haven't yet found your writing soulmates? The next matchup is the last one for the summer, so don't snooze on it. Get matched up with those writing in a similar genre and or time zone so they can critique your work as you critique theirs. Your manuscript doesn't have to be complete to sign up for this 3000 work evaluation this particular matchup will be open to registrations from now until the 1st of June, with the matchup emails going out on the 2nd of June. For more information and to register, go to Biancamarae.com and go to the Beta Reader Matchup page.
- [38:49]
Cece Lera
What's up everyone? This is cece. So I recently grabbed lunch with an acquiring editor from HarperCollins who told me that the number of submissions she's been getting has nearly doubled. And I wasn't surprised at all because every agent and editor I know has been talking about how the volume of submission keeps increasing. So personally, that is a wonderful thing because it's more reading for me, but it also means I have more chances of matching with authors. I consider it a privilege to review queries on books with hooks and of course, in my Submissions inbox. But at the same time, I talk to writers who tell me that they wish agents would read more than a few pages because, and I quote, my story gets better in chapter two. I have to be honest, this kills me. It's like me wanting chocolate chip cookies to have the nutritional value of kale. It's just not realistic. Like it or not, no agent, no acquiring editor, is going to stick around to see if a submission gets better. It's not because we're mean. It's because we get dozens and dozens every day. I know it's harsh, but ambitious writers embrace harsh realities. So here it goes. It's your job to make your opening pages irresistible, to make agents crave it, to make agents want to read more. That's why so excited about my upcoming course, starting it how to begin your story in the best place and in the best way. I created this course after studying hundreds of books. I've mapped out elements that are present in the beginning of all successful novels and memoirs. And I've designed checklists, actual checklists that you can use to ensure that your story's beginning is seducing your reader. We'll cover how to write a great first line, different types of beginnings, and how you can choose the best one, the best place to start, and the best way to start. Yes, these are totally different things. When it makes sense to add a prologue and when it doesn't. How to frame your inciting incident in an appealing way, how to balance exposition and mystery, how to include context but but not weigh it down with too much backstory and what to do if your story has more than one POV or timeline. Most of all, I'm going to show you how to make readers want to turn to Chapter two. Join me for this multi day course designed to help you break through the noise. You'll leave with a clear, actionable breakdown of exactly what goes into a terrific beginning. If you've already signed up, come prepare to take lots of notes.
- [41:29]
Notes?
- [41:29]
We're talking hundreds of slides with real world examples and specific techniques.
- [41:34]
Plus a super fun surprise that I
- [41:36]
can't wait to share. I hope to see you there.