← The Side Hustle Show
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- [00:01]
A
If you create content online, if you sell anything online in person, over the phone, and you want to make stronger connections, you want to reach more people and ultimately make some more money, stick around in this one to learn how to do it by speaking directly to the nine buyers. These are nine specific customer Personas, each with unique needs. But there are some quick and simple ways to resonate with them to get better results in your business. Help me out with this one. Is a professional copywriter. She's the author of the Nine Buyers System from Nine Buyers System.com Melanie Warren, welcome to the side hustle show.
- [00:36]
B
Hi. I'm super excited to be here.
- [00:37]
A
Me as well. Melanie. Her work has helped sell millions of dollars worth of products and services, and she has graciously agreed to stop by and give us the goods for free. Today we're going three rounds with Melanie. First up is that nine buyer system. How we can better tailor our content and messaging to meet our customers where they're at. After that, we're playing donate a business idea and and wrapping up with the triple threat. That is a marketing tactic that's working right now. Curious to get your take on the state of the copywriting industry as it relates to AI, a new or new to you tool that you're loving right now. And finally, your favorite book from the last 12 months. So as you're listening in, you gotta think, well, which buyer am I? And you gotta think, well, what buyer type is my target audience? And, you know, we like to think of ourselves as logical beings, logical creatures, but, you know, I think when it comes comes down to it, a lot of buying decisions need to check that emotion box first and then we're going to justify it with the logic box second. So the first buyer on the list here is this respect me buyer. Can you talk me through what this buyer is like and what they need or want to hear?
- [01:42]
B
Yes. So there are nine types. And what's important about that is we are holistic beings. So like everything else in life, we're whole people. And then of course, everything is on a spectrum. So anything that I say that sounds absolute, go ahead and pepper that in with your own lived experience. Because we grow and change. But specifically, the respect me buyer cares very much about other people recognizing their importance. So if you've ever got into a disagreement with your significant other and that person felt disrespected, what they are saying is, in this moment, I don't feel important to you or important in this scenario. Could you please help me feel like I matter?
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A
Yeah.
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B
If you can get that idea across in your copy. The way this usually gets talked about in copy is don't talk down to people. But that depends on where you are. And you're like, well, but I'm an expert at whatever my thing is, and that person doesn't know about that. So I might accidentally be talking down to them. Am I doing this wrong? And the answer is, as long as you have the overriding idea that my customer is important, I agree they know that they're important. And I agree with that belief. You should be okay.
- [02:58]
A
Any specific language frameworks that you've seen work well in that to not talk down to someone and make them feel important and respected.
- [03:07]
B
Yes. I use ideas like, you can pace their reality. The experience you're having right now is. So maybe you just did a sales call with them last week and you're reaching out one more time. Mention it. Because if you mention somebody else's reality, that's a way to demonstrate that you believe that their experience is important. So everything I'm going to tell you is very simple like that, and we just often overlook it. How can I acknowledge the experience you're having? And the fact that I acknowledged it demonstrates that I respect it.
- [03:38]
A
I feel like there's going to be a lot of parenting parallels here. Have these conversations with the kids. Like, okay, I feel, you know, I understand you're feeling very disappointed right now. This isn't what you wanted to have happened. You see them as equals and not trying to talk down to kids.
- [03:52]
B
It's a big deal. I raised five children, and when it was happening, it took a real long time because the oldest one and then the youngest one, there's 12 years between them. So when you sign on for parenting at that duration, you learn a few things.
- [04:04]
A
Sure, sure. I'm trying to think of this in the framework of if I'm a video creator or a podcaster, how to make the audience feel important and respected and meeting people where they're at. I don't know if you have any examples of language that people use there.
- [04:22]
B
We're doing some stuff right now that is going to be video ads, and that means that I am making the copy right now and some number of months in the future. Sure. The audience is going to hear it, see it, feel it. So I have to make sure to be timely because if I record it right now and they see it at the end of January and Christmas has come and gone, I am not pacing their reality, therefore, not demonstrating that I respect the one thing I would try to minimize is overtly saying, I respect X. Just in case you don't have positional authority in their lives just yet. They might not want to hear that. Here's a good example. I just got an email from the guy who sold me my car years ago, and it's paid for because that's how I roll. And he, in this email, says, just wanted to reach out to let you know that I'm interested in buying your car from you. That's not pacing my reality. It doesn't respect the fact that I am the sort of person who drives a car until it lays down on its last gasp. My last three cars, I drove to over 200,000 miles each. And I told him that when I bought the car that that's why I was buying this particular car. I will not be replying to that email. I do not feel like he's respecting my decision around that.
- [05:37]
A
All right, that's fair. So trying to. I like that. Framing their reality, or here's where I see you, and sometimes you're going to miss, but if you can't hit it, then all of a sudden you get people nodding along and being like, o, oh, yeah. That is where I'm at today. All right, buyer number two is the love Me buyer who is looking for love and appreciation. Talk to me about this Persona.
- [05:55]
B
That one, I would say straight up, it makes a big difference. If you genuinely love and care for that person, say it now. If you don't know them, then find something else that they care about to say that you love and appreciate. So it's authentic. So it would be weird if you said, I love your dog. That's a little weird. There's no way that's genuine. But if you said we had a mutual passion, like right now we're doing a podcast, and so we had a mutual care for getting important messages out to the world. And so I can say I really love that we are doing this and that resonates with you because it's true for you and therefore is true. Because what's true for your audience or whoever you're speaking to is the truth in that moment. And you just have to always be aware of that.
- [06:37]
A
So finding some common ground of some. It may not be I love your dog, but like, hey, we. We both love dogs.
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B
Exactly.
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C
Ok.
- [06:44]
A
Okay. All right. Anything else there?
- [06:45]
B
Certain niches do better than others. Like, if you're in the personal development niche, you are going to find a lot of people that tend towards this bias and hopefully you have a big heart. Anyway, and so talk about it. Other niches, not so much. Like my son buys, he likes to build his own computers, so he buys his own parts. Imagine how weird an email would be. That said, I just really love the X342 and I think you're going to love it too. One 35 year old man to another, like, why are we doing that?
- [07:14]
A
Do I need to speak to every single one of these? Or depending on the niche, depending on what I'm offering, I imagine there's going to be more heavily weighted in certain categories than others.
- [07:26]
B
Oh yeah, absolutely. So there's two answers to this. The one answer is no. Pick the one that you think is most representative of the niche that you're in and write to them. The other answer is yes. And here's why. I talked before about how we are holistic beings. So here's what happens. You need all of these different kinds of emotional inputs in order for it to feel right to you. So I don't mean it to be something like, oh my gosh, I'm just sending out a hundred word email. There's absolutely no way I can hit all nine of these types. What am I even doing?
- [08:02]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How am I gonna check all these boxes at once?
- [08:05]
B
Right? But in that case, I know of at least one person who did this thing with really great success. So imagine this. You sold them the item and now you really need them to use the item because they can't buy more unless they use it. You sold them a supplement, you sold them toothpaste, something. All right, so now you need a consumption sequence. So the first email, it's a subtle move. The first email says, this is such an important decision that you have made to respect and I am so glad that you did this. And so maybe read chapter one or maybe take the vitamin for three days or something, right? The next email says, people are loving this thing that you just bought. Here's some testimonials from people that loved it. If you love it too, feel free to hashtag us on social media and post your testimonial, whatever. And you can do a 9 email consumption sequence to keep people engaged because the first one might not grab their attention, but maybe the third one will. So that's a strategy I would use. If you have some sort of a longer sequence, focus on one of the buyer types in each sequence.
- [09:14]
A
Okay, I like this. I like this. I try to get people to experience the benefit that they originally bought it for, right? Like how do you take action? Get that quick win and Feel some positive emotion and some positive momentum towards the thing and then hopefully gather testimonials and leveraging other people's testimonials to get the, hey, you know, there's, there's safety in numbers here. You're not alone here. You know, it's normal to post a testimonial and help spread the word here. That is the second buyer Persona that love me buyer number three is the celebrate me buyer. This is somebody who, you know, sees themselves as self confident, as competitive, as a winner who wants to be celebrated. What am I including in my marketing to. To reach this person or to speak to them?
- [10:00]
B
This one is about status. And that's not always a negative thing. People want to feel like they're somebody. And so anything in the copy that shows them how they might look to themselves in the mirror or to other people. Because there's also the whole, we all want to feel like we're somebody, so why not say millions of people have bought this thing? It'll work for you too. And I just want to really congratulate you on making the right choice. I'm like, when was the last time you bought something? And on the confirmation page, it didn't say, congratulations, you made the right choice. That's status language right there.
- [10:39]
A
Yeah, this was a shift that we made a few, you know, a lot of the confirmation pages, like the thank you page, it would say thank you, like, hey, you're doing me a favor. So we shifted that language to congratulations. Like it's now it's you focused to say, hey, you made, you made the right call. This is going to be great. Here's the next step. Versus is like, hey, thanks. You know, you did be a solid. It's like, I, I mean, I do appreciate that. But turning it back to the customer reader subscriber.
- [11:02]
B
Yeah, that's a funny thing too. It's so tempting, like, welcome to our thing because you worked so hard on your thing and of course it's good. And of course you want people to have it and to know that you appreciate them for having bought the thing. Yeah, that is all normal, but it comes off a little strange to the buyer who is so wrapped up in their personal experience, as they should be. We're all marching through our own little private journeys here, and anything that CR tracks that dream is a little bit confusing. So it's smart. I'm congratulating you for having done this thing. Even though you'll see it on every page, it's not surprising language. They're looking forward to that familiarity.
- [11:40]
A
Somebody who I think does a good job of this is Chandler Bolt at Self Publishing, where he would send out this nicely packaged, you know, welcome box to new students, new customers. And the first thing you open it up, there's like a certificate that says, you know, congratulations, future author or something. You just took the first step toward publishing your book and it's like, oh, it kind of reaffirms that buying decision. Like, oh, yeah, I made the right call. Rebuild some of that self confidence that may have waned a little bit in the two or three days after hitting purchase until this box shows up.
- [12:10]
B
Yeah, it makes a huge difference, especially if you sell a product where people have to work to get the benefit.
- [12:15]
A
Yeah, it's going to take some effort. Like, okay, I got to keep and keep reaffirming that.
- [12:19]
B
Oh, you have to. If I buy a new shirt and it's my color, I put the shirt on, I'm a new woman. But if I decide I'm going to write a book, I have to convince myself it's a good idea. I have to convince my partner it's a good idea. I have to convince the kids not to bother me because mommy's writing a book. And the doubt that you go through anytime you're bringing something into the world is a normal part of the experience. So they're going to have to feel that, but they don't have to feel it alone. And to have that ignored is just also scary too. Because then it makes it seem, oh, maybe there's something wrong with me as a person. And there's. There's not. You're just doing the work of bringing something into reality.
- [12:53]
A
That's number three, the celebrate me buyer. Number four is the support me buyer.
- [12:57]
C
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A
G-U-S-T-O.com Sidehustle Buyer number four is the support me buyer worried about what does that mean? Support me? Just like, is somebody going to hold my hand through this? Am I going to be able to do this? What are they thinking?
- [15:21]
B
Yeah, you want the person to feel fully empowered. If you have any questions, reach out. This is why your guarantee is so important. Needs to be as generous as it reasonably can be so that the person feels like there's a chance they're going to be successful at this thing because otherwise they're not going to go with it. Especially if it's a significant purchase. If it's a spur of the moment small dollar item, they're not expecting a ton of support. But if you've sold a high ticket item, they have to feel like you're going to be there, you're not going to smother Them. You trust them to be independent and have their own journey. But if they need you at all, you're right there. Here's our email, here's our website, here's our phone number. Here's more resources. Here's the textbook. Like, our FAQ is on point. Like, all of it.
- [16:06]
A
Okay. Okay. Yeah, I'm thinking about. I mean, I'm the person who checks that, you know, return policy, exchange policy. What's the guarantee? Like, what. It's like the risk reversal type of thing. Like, what if this doesn't work out for me? So I guess I could raise my hand. Like, not necessarily fully support me type of person. Like, yeah, I can figure it out on my own, but just in case, I want to make sure that I'm going to be able to get out of this if it doesn't end up working.
- [16:31]
B
Absolutely.
- [16:32]
A
And even, even like, booking hotels now, which is super annoying because now it's like, here's the price book. Now pay now, no cancellation. And then it's like, well, here's the higher price if you want to be able to cancel later. You're like, ah, I don't know. You just. You can never make plans anymore. I'm not really sure. It's like, you see this all the time and it's, you know, okay, which one, which one appeals to which buyer?
- [16:49]
B
Absolutely. I saw this thing recently. I like to go to the Highland Games in my state.
- [16:54]
A
Oh, this is like telephone pole flipping, like Scottish games type of stuff.
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B
Yes. Men in kilts, throwing boulders.
- [17:00]
A
Yeah, yeah.
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B
It's a whole thing. It's a whole weekend event. I absolutely love to go. I go every year. And this time around, when I bought the ticket, not only had they doubled the price, but below each ticket was small print in a box. You normally click yes just out of reflex, and it says, do you want to insure this ticket? It'll be $3. I start to notice something's going wrong when I realize that checkbox is below every single ticket and I had bought a bunch of them. And the fine print says, this is not insurance in case you decide you don't want to come.
- [17:33]
A
Okay.
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B
This is insurance in a situation where we, as the organizers of the event, decide to cancel the event.
- [17:40]
A
Wow. Okay.
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B
Right. And I did not feel that that was supportive behavior. It. It kind of seemed like a money grab, so I didn't check the box.
- [17:49]
A
Yeah. Oh, yeah. I gotta roll the dice. Gotta take that risk.
- [17:52]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:53]
A
What we see commonly in, like, the online course community, the support me component is, well, you have, there's, there's office hours you can ask. You know, sometimes you have like live texting access 24 7. You know, shoot me a question. You see like, you know, here's our free Facebook group community. So you kind of see like these different elements that people layer on for that additional support. Maybe it's live chat, maybe it's over the phone, maybe it's email, but some level of ongoing support. Like, if you're, if you need us, we're going to be here for you.
- [18:26]
B
Absolutely.
- [18:26]
A
All right. Number five is the teach me buyer. And I mean, sometimes I'm in this camp, but a lot of times lately it's like, I just want it done for me. I don't know, I don't necessarily care how you do it, but can you just do it for me?
- [18:38]
B
I love a magic pill as much as anybody. I'm not really a potion buyer, but I'm very much a magic pill buyer. But this person don't necessarily think about long copy for this, but think about the features and the unique mechanisms. So there is a group of people that very much wants to know how it works, and then that is why it's going to work for them. And so that's the unique mechanism part. But there's also a group of people that will tell you they only want to know what's in the box. It's got this many bolts, they're this size. It's got a lever that goes up, down, it's, it's red. Those kinds of things really matter.
- [19:18]
A
Okay.
- [19:18]
B
And I am not this buyer, so this one's harder for me. But I always try to match up my unique mechanism and my features with some sort of emotional driven benefit. And that's how I make this one work. So the fact that the bolts, that there are three of them and that they are a certain size means that you can grip them easily. It means that if you lose one, you will always have a spare. Always saying what it means to the other person as you are teaching them. So it's not just a sometimes you can sell a done with you or a DIY kind of stuff. So that naturally fits into this. But no matter what you're selling, they're going to want to know a little bit about it for their own curiosity. But also if they ever have to explain this to anybody else in case someone sees that credit card bill and they're like, what did you buy? Why did you buy it? Do we need this whatever it is more than we need groceries and rent? So they need to be able to back it up.
- [20:15]
A
Okay, so this is the person who wants to see that full list of features or what's included. And like a detail oriented person. Well, there's 12 hours of video content. There's this community based support group so you can get all your questions answered. We're trying to match that to some emotional benefit so you can see this result that you want so you can achieve the desired outcome. We're going to tell you what the thing is, but we're also going to tell you why it's in there. Like why it's important.
- [20:44]
B
Exactly. This is where you would also put. These are all categories of proof ultimately. But this is heavily on the demonstration proof. 98% saw success with it. We did independent studies with it and the magic ingredient worked 100% of the time. Whatever you've got, put it in there.
- [21:01]
A
Oh, okay. Some sort of evidence based. Now that appeals to me more like that level of scientific rigor, to the extent that that exists to say, wow, this has been proven time and time again. It's a foolproof system. If they could do it, you could do it. That definitely does appeal for me.
- [21:20]
B
Exactly. And isn't that funny? So this one's really interesting because it sounds so straightforward and log, but for someone who cares about that, there is like a bodily sensation. There's almost like a relief that comes with it. Like, oh, there's science. Somebody took the time to think about it. That feels right to me. So some of the sales strategies and the copywriting strategies are about fear and greed and about how maybe like building the gap, which I also think is a good idea. Like you should be able to show people where they are and where they want to be and help them bridge the gap. But this sensation of something being right uniquely for me is a very specific thing that I think doesn't get talked about enough. And the nine Buyers system specifically addresses that.
- [22:07]
A
Yeah, I like how we're not talking anything yet about scarcity and fear tactics or anything like this. It's like, no, no. How do we convince you on the positive side that this is the right decision for you or this is the place where you belong. That's number five. That teach me buyer. The logical proof, evidence. Combat their feeling of being overwhelmed with. Here's what's inside. Here's why that helps you. Number six we have is the Reassure Me buyer. This seems like warm and fuzzy, like I'm looking for making sure I made the safe choice or the right choice.
- [22:37]
B
This one's very warm. And fuzzy and lay it on thick. Don't be shy about this one at all. Especially if you're more of a logic based person. You're like, oh my gosh, I just laid out all my proof. I have a unique mechanism. This is undeniably the right choice. What do you mean? You want me to straight up tell people it's going to be fine, but you need to mention it at least once. They need to know that you have thought about it and that it's fine and that you care.
- [23:00]
A
Is there a specific phrase or language that you would use here?
- [23:04]
B
I go as straightforward with all of this as I possibly can. But sometimes I will put in, you know, that frame that goes, I felt that way at first myself, but then.
- [23:16]
A
I discovered, yeah, feel, felt, found.
- [23:19]
B
Yes, use it because it works really great. And I find that people will even repeat back some of this stuff to me later and not realize that's what they're doing. But because it's so relatable, it's normal for you to have a fear, a worry, some shred of doubt and then to have an experience that changed your mind. So that is a relatable story. It's a very human story and you can't really overuse that framework.
- [23:46]
A
Okay, this has got to be for certain brands. I'm thinking of a real tough, masculine, spartan race type of brand is probably not going to need to include something like this. People are not necessarily looking for belonging and safety. Aside from they go, okay, there's a big group of people that are going to go through this pain and suffering with me. But this feel, felt, found framework, this was taught in sales training, overcoming objections. Hey, I understand you're feeling this certain objection or you have this fear over hitting by. In fact, when I was starting out, I felt the same way. And here's ultimately what we found or what we found from dealing with hundreds of customers at this point, it's kind of like walking through, you know, here's why your concern is valid and here's what we've done to address that concern and still get people the positive result. Reassuring.
- [24:31]
B
There is also this concept of a safety and excitement scale because everything's on a spectrum. And so if you have a really tough brand like that, you're going to do a race, everybody's going to go together and you are going to test yourself to the absolute limits. Well, if I believe that I am some tough guy and I've done all these things before, how do I know that this is going to be worth it? Is it going to be as extreme as you promised? Am I going to get as muddy as you promised? Am I going to test my ultimate, ultimate limits? Even someone like me who's bad to the bone? Are you sure? So you can reassure them by showing pictures and video clips of other people who did the event and came out just absolutely plastered in mud and grinning from ear to ear because that's the outcome they're looking for. So how can you show them that they're going to get the outcome that they're imagining? It's not just your words, it's everything else that you're doing in your marketing to show they'll get the outcome that you promised.
- [25:25]
A
Okay. And if you can include some sort of visual cues here, I think that may be helpful.
- [25:30]
B
Yeah. Oh, so that's another really important thing is I'm a writer. I like words. And often, as hard as this is for me, words are not the best way to get across the ideas. So what I do is I write a lot of words and then I give them to other people who are in other departments and they turn the words into visuals. And maybe there's a color theme and maybe there's a video and maybe there's some sort of sound and then I can go back to the copy and cut half or even more of it because the ideas have made it in without the use of words.
- [26:03]
A
Is there an element here of safety in numbers where you know, if you have been doing a thing for a while and be like, hey, you know, hundreds of happy customers can't be wrong. Or we've already got a community of a thousand people, come on in, the water's warm. Like this feeling of belonging and safety rather than somebody kind of sticking their neck out for the first time and it feels like really vulnerable.
- [26:23]
B
There are people who like to be first timers. I like to be in the first wave of a thing. So if I take a course, I want it to be someone who's doing it for the first or second time.
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A
And you want like to be that.
- [26:37]
B
Beta tester crowd, but that's just me and other people want it when all the kinks are smoothed out, when the worksheets are beautiful, when the community's active and flowing and they want all of that. And so what you need to do is pick the person that you like working with the most. If you want somebody who is going to come into an existing community and help it continue to grow and be stable, that's the person you talk to. If you want somebody who's Going to be in the rough and tumble with you and they don't care about a worksheet and you're just trying to beta test this thing. Then you speak to that person. So that one is a choice that you get to make.
- [27:15]
A
Okay. And you can tell it either way. Like, hey, it's early. I need feedback. You're going to work directly with me. There's different ways that you could spin that. So that's your number six, the reassure me Persona, buyer Persona. Number seven is the entertain me person. This is like, I'm picturing like orange on some of these personality tests. Like, optimistic, happy, fun loving, adventurous type of person. What do you see effective in speaking to these people?
- [27:38]
B
Okay, so I like to try to make things fun, but I am not the most fun. My friends are very fun. You give them an opportunity at a stage and they are making it happen. So I like to dance and I've been on dance teams for years that I am far from the best performer on the team. That's all of my other teammates. They're in the front row. If they forget the choreo, it doesn't matter. It's all personality. And they you. There's so many people that want to have that experience, even if they're not the entertainer on the stage. They either want to think of themselves like that or, you know, they're just stomping through life a dreary, boring. A lot of us are sleepwalking through life. And if you see a cat video, sometimes that's enough to make your day. And so if you have that in your personality as the business owner and you're willing to infuse a little bit of that in your copy. Of course, not every brand lends itself to that, but for example, my son writes for SaaS. Software is a service you don't think of as an entertaining thing, but he does posts for them on LinkedIn that have a little bit of wit. Not all the way up to humor, not slap your knee funny, but just a little bit of lightness to them. And that's enough to set that company apart, because nobody else in the industry is doing that. So you don't have to go super extreme with it, but just a touch of showing that you're human and that it would be worth it to stop the scroll and to read that little bit of what you have to say.
- [29:07]
A
Got it? Got it. And you see this on YouTube all the time with a pattern interrupt where it's just kind of like breaks you out of that whatever the Thing is, it's like, oh, it kind of re engages your attention. You see it in emails, people putting in GIFs or meme breaks in their emails just to break it up and show a little bit of your personality. And I don't know, I think that's a lot of fun and kind of helps people relate to the creator as a person.
- [29:33]
B
Yep. Another interesting thing about this entire concept is all nine types. We know all the regular sales techniques. There have been many books written on them. And whether you prefer one or the other, we know a lot of that stuff works. And part of that is what we talked about before. Painting a picture gap, a little bit of the pain. And the question becomes, you painted a dream, you widened the gap. But why or why not? Why did they buy? It's really such an interesting question. And so these kinds of things could be the thing that tips them over. So if I show up and I do a little song and dance for you, does that mean you're going to buy my vitamins? No, that's ridiculous. But if you set up everything else, you showed me the proof, you demonstrated that it will give me the outcome I want. It's reasonably priced, it's guaranteed. The support is there if you need it. And by the way, we are the humorous brand that stopped your scroll. For this kind of buyer, that might be just enough.
- [30:37]
A
Yeah, I'm trying to think of some examples. Like probably like Meundies is like a playful example. Like all their branding is cutesy and double entendres and stuff. There's probably other examples of other brands, brands that kind of where there's a clear personality around it, behind it even like, look at it like Wendy's on Twitter where they're just constantly trolling other fast food chains. And it's just makes people more feel a greater affinity towards that brand.
- [30:59]
B
Yeah, because what are they really selling? Fast food hamburgers. What's interesting about that? But they went out of their way to make it more engaging.
- [31:07]
A
Very good. All right, that's the entertain me buyer. I really like that one. And I think people can have some fun with that. Number eight is the empower person Persona. What's up with them?
- [31:15]
B
This person wants control. And so maybe I don't want to have to email customer service to get the thing refunded. Maybe I just want to go to the website myself, click the button and have it magically happen. You were talking about hotels. Okay, well, maybe I don't want to have to call the reservation center again and be on hold for who Knows how many hours maybe I just want to be able to go and take care of that myself.
- [31:37]
A
Yeah, I was canceling a service recently and it was like, you need to. Here's the calendly link to set up a cancellation call. Like, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? Like, I just want to click the button. And I was like, it just totally reaffirmed my position. It's like, I do not want to do business with you anymore. It's like, yeah, I want to be in control. And so the language could be around, hey, this is a self driven kind of thing. You're going to have access 24. 7. Is that how you would kind of frame it?
- [32:01]
B
So the ability to change your own flights without having to wait on hold, to cancel a hotel, to get a refund, all of that is really important. And to just communicate to people that they have that ability that they are not helpless, that they are not alone, that they. It is in some ways the opposite of support. And in some ways it's very much like support because the ability to do things on your own does feel supportive in that specific way. So sometimes people just want to be able to do it themselves.
- [32:30]
A
Got it. Okay. So speaking to that person, hey, you can do it. We're here to help if you need something. But you're in the driver's seat here.
- [32:36]
B
Yeah, that's really interesting too because we were talking earlier about things that. Products where you have to do the work to get the outcome. And so you say, we're here for you. We've got a community, everything you need. And oh, by the way, here's every tool, here's every worksheet. You are in the driver's seat. So now you've got both sides. So you are talking to either two different people or you are talking to both sides of that person's deep seated worry. And they might never tell you that's what they're worried about. So it's good to just casually mention it.
- [33:03]
A
I find a lot of people almost in the permission seeking Persona, if I don't know which category that would fall.
- [33:10]
B
Under, that's probably closest to this one.
- [33:13]
A
Yeah, they want some level of somebody else to say it's okay to go do that thing, to start that business, to begin this workout program, to do whatever it's, to buy this product. You know, am I, am I allowed to do that? Am I going to fail? Like, there's this fear of failure. There's this fear of like, well, I've never done it before. So who am I am. I. Am I going to be okay to do that? And I kind of felt that same way, like, quitting my job, my one and only corporate job. Is this allowed? This is what I went to school to do. This is what you're supposed to do. I followed the path, and there was still this moment of fear and anxiety over, can I really cut my own paycheck? Sure, it's been working, but is it going to continue to work? And nobody was really there to push that empowerment button and say, okay, now you're in charge here.
- [34:01]
B
Yeah. People wonder, can I empower other people in that way? Am I disrespecting the fact that they're adults by doing that? And the answer is just go ahead and say it. Because there are times in our lives when we just need someone to say, it's okay, you've got this. I trust you, I believe in you. You can do this. And it might seem a little weird because you don't know that person. I'm going to write in an email, you have full power to do this thing. But, yes, just go ahead and put it in there. Someone is going to need to hear that.
- [34:31]
A
Yeah, that's what we're trying to do with the show. Empower people to go out and make extra money. So this is a really important one. If you're trying to instill some kind of behavioral change, some kind of lifestyle change. Number nine is this invite me buyer who is, you know, maybe I relate to this person as well. They're kind of like, more methodical in their decision making, perhaps. Like, I'm going to think about this, like the I want to think about it person.
- [34:53]
B
This one I struggled with quite a bit because it is so on the nose. If you thought the other ones were clear and simple, this one's crazy. You have to let people know that you're throwing a party on Thursday night, and it would mean a lot to you if they would come. Please come. You have to say it, because people won't figure that out on their own. Everybody thinks they're imposing, even if it's money. Like, I'm going to sell you this cheesecake. I own a bakery. I'm going to sell you this cheesecake. Like, I don't know, maybe it was a special order. Maybe it's not for me, for. Maybe it's the display model. You have to tell people, please come, please buy. And you have to say it in multiple places, too. You might say it at the top of your sales that if you have one of those leads that's like horse for sale.
- [35:38]
A
Okay.
- [35:38]
B
Which happens sometimes. You just have to straight up sell things. And then you'll say it in your conclusion. You're like, hey, and there's no risk. And you get two for one. And like, bye now. And then you're going to need to say it on the button copy. You're probably going to have to say it on your confirmation page you just bought. So make sure people are very clear that they are invited to do whatever it is interesting.
- [35:59]
A
Yeah. Make it may seem obvious to you, but it might not be obvious to the buyer. And this is where you may have, you know, some heat map testing or even like recorded. There's some services where you can get a screen recording of different users on the page, like to see where the confusion may set in. But I think this is really interesting. I'll get comments on blog posts, like, we'll do a product review. Well, how do I sign up? And you're like, really? There was like 17 links in the article. Like, you could click any of that. Any of that. Sign up. It's like, did you, did you try? It's really, really interesting to see. Okay, maybe. Maybe we didn't make it obvious enough. Maybe we needed a bigger button or something.
- [36:34]
B
Yeah. A lot of times I think, because I'm in my own stuff so much and so I think I've been clear and sometimes I even wonder. Some of my links say, click here to do X. I'm like, do I really need to tell people to click here, do X? And the answer is yeah, at least once. So I'm thinking of a certain set of emails that I have go out and the pattern is always two links and the one hot links. Some sort of phrase or a benefit or something that I think has some sort of emotional appeal or fits one of these types. And the second link is always click here to get X outcome. Because they won't know otherwise.
- [37:07]
A
Yeah. One of the really interesting things that we did a few years ago was for years none of the links were underlined on the site because I thought it just, you know, for aesthetics.
- [37:16]
B
It's passe underlining. It's come and gone.
- [37:19]
A
Yeah. To have like a, you know, it's a different color. Like people will know that's a link. Right. It's like, well, we swapped out. Why don't we just test it? Right? And we tested underlining and like all of a sudden, you know, the clicks went up 20% or something. Like affiliate earnings went up some percent. And like, I really dang you know, this, this cost thousands of thousands of dollars. I should have done this years and years ago. But making it, it, making it obvious, what can you do for that person who is on the fence? That's slow to decide. I need to think about it. They really want to be invited. Is there some sort of follow up or reassurance? How do you get them over the fence?
- [37:56]
B
That's where card abandonment works really great. And again, you could do a really long sequence. You could do nine emails and use this for card abandonment. But I would flip it and do the ninth one first and it would be, I saw that you left that sweater in your cart. Here's a 20% off coupon if you want it. And then you could do like a testimonial where someone says, oh, I just love X brand of family apparel. They're the best one. You can do all of this in demonstration in the bottom and then you can send a couple more follow ups because usually card abandonment sequences are, they're not that great if they have one at all. They're not that special. And so this would be a good way to boost those a little bit.
- [38:33]
A
Oh, okay. I'm thinking, I guess if you are promoting a course through an email sequence and somebody hit the landing page but they didn't buy, maybe you're able to retarget them through email. At a certain point you could tag them like, hey, they hit the thing but they didn't get the buyer tag ultimately. And you could come back with them with a specific question. Hey, we noticed you didn't buy. It's still available if you want it. Hey, maybe here's a limited time discount. I think all that is some interesting things that you can do. And you see it on social where it's just like trying to breathe life. Especially if it's an evergreen offer, like trying to breathe new life into this thing. Like, hey, maybe you're new here. This is what I do. You're welcome on the inside, you're invited. Making it really obvious how people can do business with you.
- [39:17]
B
Exactly. That's another good point that you make, is that if you have a really big campaign and you've sent a whole bunch of promotional emails that said the headline was RUSP is and oh, by the way, we're the best. And you will get this outcome. And that's your headline and your promise. You sent it over and over and over again. Well, by the time you get to the end of the funnel, what are you going to say that's new for the tire Kickers. And then in comes these nine ideas. A new idea is we love our customers more than anybody else. We make sure to invite you multiple times. We have fantastic guarantee. All of these things are ways to to refresh that big idea that you've been trying to get across all this time.
- [39:57]
A
Okay. All right. Those were the nine buyer Personas, of course. We'll have details on all of those at the show notes for this episode and we'll be right back with Melanie in just a moment, including donate a business idea coming up right after this.
- [40:11]
C
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- [41:22]
A
All right, we're back with Melanie from NineBuyerSystem.com for round two. This is the donate a business idea round. This could be something that you would start yourself if you had more hours. This is something that you see listeners could run with. This is something that ought to exist in the world. We'll tee it up like that and let you go.
- [41:38]
B
If I had more hours in the day, I would do a knitting site. I love to knit. I don't think there's. There's a lot of free videos that are out there on YouTube, which is something I go back and forth. I'm like, is there really a marketplace for this? But I think there is if you tied it to community and if you did some sort of an of the month club around it and if you tied it to something else because you Think about knitting when you are a family member's having a baby, that's a specific kind of club. Maybe you do bibs or booties or something. Or if you do a knitting swap, you could do your little piece of it. I used to do this with quilting. You would do your square and then you would send your square plus some scraps of the fabric to the next person in your chain. And then by the end, you got back 12 squares and you had a finished item.
- [42:27]
A
Oh, okay. So it like, it would like rotate. Everybody would do. Okay, got it, got it, got it.
- [42:31]
B
Yes. So it took one month to do it, but everybody did one piece and then sent it to everybody else. Such a fun way to learn from other people and see how they go about this craft form that you all care about so much. And if it was tied with, we bring in like coffee clubs, do this, we pair with special growers in Peru and we have a special roaster in wherever. And it's women only and it's part of a co op. And so. So there's a lot of fun things I think you could do around that.
- [42:58]
A
Yeah, this is an interesting one. So less on the knitting education side. We're going to assume you already know how to knit, but we're going to build a community element of other people. There might not be enough knitters in your, in your hometown, but you might want to interact with them on a national or international level. Maybe it was Shane Sams who had somebody in his community who was doing like a murder mystery quilting membership or something where every month it's so cool, you know, you would build, you do the pattern and slowly the plot would evolve. It sounds really familiar. It sounds like maybe this could be something, something similar here.
- [43:32]
B
I love that for people there is a certain audience. I research obscure things. But for fiction, there is a break point where women stop reading so heavily on the romance side and they start reading on the mystery side. It might have a little bit of an element of romance to it, but the mystery is the primary driver. And if you think about stage of life when you tend to have disposable income and you tend to have a little more time on your hands that you could take up a hobby like knitting, which is not an inexpensive hobby, and then you tie that to what you know that they tend to buy for books, it makes a lot of sense that there would be a handicraft. In your case, you were mentioning quilting, which is also not an inexpensive hobby. Tied to mystery novels, not tied to History not tied to biographies, not tied to coming of age romance, but specifically tied to mysteries. That makes a lot of sense for that demographic.
- [44:25]
A
Yeah, this concentric circles of mystery lovers plus knitters. And you know that little overlap in the middle where it's like, dang, this, you know, this is a no brainer. This must be the thing for me because it checks both of those boxes.
- [44:36]
B
It's so specific. And if you run a solopreneurship or have a small team, you don't need to invent the next big thing. That's going to be huge. You need a big enough community that you can run a stable business. Grows over time. So it doesn't have to be an outrageous idea. And the more niche the better.
- [44:51]
A
All right, how much you charge in for this thing?
- [44:53]
B
Right.
- [44:53]
A
We just invented a thing ten years ago. If you said, I'm going to start a knitting site, I'm thinking advertising, you know, yarn affiliate sales. But this one is like, well, maybe we're going to sell you monthly templates on a membership basis or something. So it sounds like you kind of have a recurring revenue model here.
- [45:10]
B
Right. And we know that people tend to stay in any membership about 90 days. So if you are pricing it out such that you can recoup in that amount of time, you could be okay. And then you would have affiliate links because why not have a relationship with your vendors? Yeah, you can create your own patterns. They don't have to be hard. And then they can start to develop a collection. Because we all know that things like they used to send out plates and you came, the first plate came free with a special holder to put on your wall and people would stay in until they had collected all the plates rates. So you could do a little something like that. I think there's a lot of potential with that.
- [45:47]
A
I was in this really interesting session on these recurring services and pricing models and it was like if you look at Disney plus and Netflix and Hulu and Spotify and YouTube Premium, they're all between whatever, 10 and $25 a month. And it's like this is intentionally designed to be 1% or less of your monthly income. And it's like the reason they're priced that way is it becomes a utility. It just becomes like, I'm not going to cancel my water bill, I'm not going to cancel electricity. It's just like, this is just something that I pay for. It's like whatever, it's 1%, it's going to be fine. So they have really, really sticky customer Bases and hopefully much longer than 90 days. That's how I might be thinking about pricing in this type of recurring knitting pattern service, mystery, novel type of business, and then going out to find customers for that. I guess there's probably already some knitting communities where you could start to build a reputation and build a little bit of a following there.
- [46:48]
B
Exactly. And this sort of thing, when you put your hands into something, it puts your heart into the thing. And so that automatically makes the community stickier. If you turned to the woman next to you and said, I've tangled up these yarns, I just don't know, and she takes it out of your hand with permission, of course, and then unstitches that little section and then gets you going again. You feel a bond with her. And now that person is your friend. And so the community, I think, would be inherently sticky.
- [47:15]
A
Okay. All right, well, keep us posted on the future Melanie Warren knitting site. We'll happy to. We'll add it to the show notes once. Once it's live. Round three is the triple threat. First up here is a marketing tactic that, that is working right now. This could be for you and your agency. This could be for other copywriters. Copywriting in the age of AI. What's going on right now?
- [47:38]
B
Oh, AI and I are close.
- [47:40]
A
You're not mortal enemies.
- [47:42]
B
Not mortal enemies. Because I love it. As an idea assistant, I will come up with, okay, I think this maybe could be connected to this. Or what if it was the opposite of that? If I break apart this idea, how does that work? Oh, this happened. I needed to do a copy review and I didn't have time to do it manually. And so I used to be. You could only put in small chunks of text. I put in must have been 20 pages, and I put it all in there. And I'm like, tell me what the sales argument is and tell me where the holes are. So I don't have it right for me, but I do use it for that kind of stuff. So. Fantastic. So highly recommended.
- [48:20]
A
Okay, I'll put that down actually, as the second. Second part here. A tool that you're loving. We could say, well, ChatGPT is an idea assistant. So AI is an IA, an idea assistant. And that's how I tend to use it in a lot of cases as well. Here's what, you know, what are some creative ways to do xyz? Like, you know, here's the idea that we are. Here's the list we already came up with. And then it'll inevitably throw out two or Three that you hadn't thought of. It's like, oh, okay, those are great. We'll make sure to include those.
- [48:49]
B
Okay, so that was number two. I jumped ahead. Number one, a tactic I'm enjoying right now. We talked about how my son writes for sass, which tends to be dry. And so we thought, well, what is the opposite of that? The opposite of that is humorous. And so we are working on building their LinkedIn following. And I noticed people who are in software don't necessarily comment or interact on social media. I'm starting to see movement on that. People are reposting, they're commenting. Like, this brightened my day. So the idea of taking the opposite of what would be expected in your niche or industry and just trying that to see if you can maybe get a little movement there. So recommend it.
- [49:26]
A
Okay. Okay. I'm just trying to think of other examples where. Okay, yeah, this is traditionally a dry industry. We're talking about finance or accounting or law or software, and we're going to inject a little bit of humor. That playbook may still work if you could find a way to break through the clutter and break people's pattern of expectations.
- [49:44]
B
So the knitting thing, that doesn't make sense, really, because I'm going to be sending you yarn through the mail and then hoping that you pick up the needles yourself. But if I match it to some sort of a community thing, maybe we all get on Zoom and do it together. Now, that is the opposite of the normal expectation. That is a way to differentiate yourself. So it would take a little doing, I think, to implement it. But what is not normally done, what am I not seeing here that could be here, gives you a way to have ideas so that you're thinking up and out rather than narrow and narrower about what's already been done.
- [50:17]
A
Okay. A good book to read on this subject would be Zag. I forget the author. But in a sea of plainness, how can you do the opposite? It talks about in a time when all the car companies are racing to build bigger and heavier excursions and expeditions and SUVs and Suburbans, mini Cooper comes out with a really small suv. Okay, we're going to. We're not going to compete in that space, but we're going to come up with something completely different and opposite. Around the same time, the Prius launches and they've carved out a completely opposite space. And maybe there's something to think about in what you're doing. What is the standard in your industry? And how can you differentiate? How can you position yourself a little bit differently. All right, so now, speaking of books, the last segment of the Triple Threat is your favorite book from the last 12 months.
- [51:03]
B
I read a lot. A lot, a lot. And one of the things that I've been doing is, is studying fiction because that is a way to introduce storytelling into the marketing you're already doing. We do it with testimonials and stuff, but in marketing you've got very few words and you have to get across big ideas and they have to matter. And to do that, you can take that from fiction. But I love to cook and I really love to eat. And so the book that I've enjoying right now is called Sourdough and it's Robin Sloan and it is exactly what it promises. It is a book about a woman who is an engineer and is gifted a sourdough starter and her adventures of the sourdough taking on a personality of its own. And how she starts her own business at a food market around this idea of I'm going to bake my own bread, talking about zagging like a random. She had a stable job as an engineer, but now she's going to be a sourdough baker. And how and why that changes her life.
- [52:01]
A
Okay, Sourdough, we'll add it to the list. Never heard of it. And this is a work of fiction by Rob Cuban Sloan. All right, well, very good, Melanie. This has been awesome. Thanks so much for joining me. Taking the time to walk us through the nine buyers and brainstorm a little bit of new startup business ideas. New side hustle ideas going on. You can find melanie@9buyersystem.com you can grab the book over there. You can also find it on Amazon. We will link Melanie's profile up on LinkedIn so you can connect with her over there as well. Thanks so much for stopping by for sharing your insight. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone. As always, you can hit upside hustlenation.com deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. Thank you for supporting the advertisers that support the show. That is it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you find value in the show, the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend. So fire off that text message maybe to a friend of yours who's struggling to sell their thing and, well, have you thought about your buyer Persona is number three.
- [52:58]
C
You know, maybe, maybe they need to.
- [52:59]
A
Hear that and I appreciate you helping spread the word. Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen and I'll catch you in the next edition of the Side Hustle Show. Hustle on.