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- [00:00]
Nick Loper
You probably already know that Airbnb can help you earn some extra cash when you're not using your home. Maybe you're traveling for work, you're taking an extended vacation, or you're just snowboarding someplace warmer. But here's where it gets interesting. You don't have to do all the work yourself. You can tap into Airbnb's co host network. This is a team of local pros who handle the nitty gritty so you can focus on what matters most. Think of it like outsourcing for your side hustle. These professional co hosts help with everything from creating a killer listing that stands out to guest communication and even on the ground support. You provide the space, they handle the details, and you get paid. Personally, I'm a fan of income streams that don't require constant oversight. When I'm traveling for work, I'm at a conference or a mastermind, or if I'm on vacation, I'm trying to be present with my family. Here's a way to add an extra income stream without having to be glued to my phone the whole time. When you're ready to get started, see how much your space could be worth and get connected with an awesome co host@airbnb.com host all right, these are the.
- [01:04]
Joe MacKay
Three types of posts you need to make money on LinkedIn, how to do LinkedIn as a side hustler, and the common and costly mistake you're probably making on LinkedIn.
- [01:13]
Nick Loper
This is the side Hustle Show.
- [01:14]
Joe MacKay
It is the business podcast you can actually apply. Today's guest has taken his LinkedIn ghostwriting side hustle from zero to a multi six figure business, generating millions of impressions along the way. And he's here to fill us in on how to make money on LinkedIn this year from joemakkai.info Joe MacKay. Welcome to the Side Hustle Show.
- [01:34]
Guest
Thanks for having me, Nick. I'm really looking forward to our chat today.
- [01:37]
Joe MacKay
Me as well.
- [01:38]
Nick Loper
LinkedIn has long been ignored as a.
- [01:40]
Joe MacKay
Social platform for me. And after our LinkedIn lesson, Joe's got a business idea to donate, so be sure to stick around for that. Plus, we've got the triple threat. This is Joe's favorite tool, tactic and book from the last 12 months. But let's kick it off with those three types of post that every LinkedIn side hustler needs to do.
- [01:57]
Guest
So I try and keep things really, really simple. Like there is a lot of advice out there. For me, it is as simple as three types of posts. The first type of post that I look at is really about awareness. So this is usually going to be a story about you, about your side hustle, about where the idea came from, about why you love what you're doing, why you're passionate about it, maybe some of the struggles or the fails that you've had along the way. And so this kind of a story based post is really meant to reach as many people as possible, to drive awareness and to get your photo and your headline and your name in front of as many people as you can. So I think that's, that's kind of the starting point is, is going broad and telling a story.
- [02:36]
Joe MacKay
Okay, we'll go into some examples of all these. Yeah, sure, but, but go ahead.
- [02:40]
Guest
So the, the second type of post that I, I think of is really around educating your, your target audience. So we're starting to get a little bit narrower in who we're speaking to here. You want to try and demonstrate that you're the expert or, or you're the person that they should reach out to when they face the problem that you solve. So you're trying to either educate them around a problem that they might have and teach your target audience how to solve that problem. You might unpack how you got a result for a client or a great client story. You might share a mental model or a framework or something that you apply in your side hustle with clients. And so really that next kind of layer of your three layered content strategy is around building trust and demonstrating your expertise with a relevant audience. So it's less about kind of breadth and volume of eyeballs and more about focusing in on who you're talking to and targeting them more specifically.
- [03:33]
Joe MacKay
Okay, got it.
- [03:34]
Guest
And the third post that you really need to, and this is where I see a lot of people leaving money on the table is to make an offer. So a lot of people assume that by telling some stories and building some trust that customers will come to them. And that can happen. But it's really important to consistently and regularly remind people exactly what you do, who you help, how you help them, and then how they can work with you and kind of make that offer and put that in front of them with a clear, simple call to action that someone can follow. That might be send me a dm, that might be join my newsletter. So making that offer, making an offer of some kind and putting it in front of your target audience rather than hoping that they kind of come to you and know what action to take.
- [04:18]
Joe MacKay
Got it. So at the end of the post, or even it could be the whole post itself. This is an offer type of post. Hey, if you want more of this, I send out a newsletter every Thursday on this topic. Make sure you join so you never miss one. Send me a message, book a discovery call inviting people to take that next step to deepen their relationship or do business with you.
- [04:40]
Guest
Yeah, absolutely. So that call to action kind of sits at the end. Whether it's what I think of as a light lift call to action, which would be join my newsletter or follow me through to a really heavier lift, kind of a higher value call to action, which is, as you said, book a discovery call, book a strategy call. Depending obviously on your side hustle and the service you're offering. And what goes really well as kind of the content of those offer LED posts is customer testimonials, great client results that you've received where you can demonstrate ROI of whatever it is that you're offering. If you kind of start with that and potentially a story, a customer story around that and then have a call to action that follows. That's a really powerful combination.
- [05:21]
Joe MacKay
Okay, so I could put something like, I could reformat a story from the podcast and put that on LinkedIn as a text based post or maybe with some image we can talk about those type of tactics too. And then the, if you want more stories like this, make sure to follow the side hustle. Show some framework like that.
- [05:38]
Guest
Absolutely. So, you know, if someone gets to the bottom of your post, you've grabbed their attention, you've obviously piqued their interest. It's really important to give them a next step to take before they just go scrolling by.
- [05:49]
Nick Loper
Has LinkedIn gone like more algorithm based.
- [05:51]
Joe MacKay
Versus more follower based, where if you create something, you know, Maybe only have 100 connections or something like, I don't necessarily need those people to see it, but I would like the broader world to see it. If I hit that viral thread just right, like is that going to happen and do I have the ability to, you know, go beyond my existing network here?
- [06:12]
Guest
Yeah, absolutely. That that shift is coming to the algorithm on LinkedIn. It's, it's kind of arrived already and I think I'm seeing it getting more exaggerated. So you are more likely than ever to see, yeah, viral type, more algorithm led content versus content from your direct network. And I think that can be a good and a bad thing.
- [06:31]
Joe MacKay
Yeah, as a user it's getting bad because it's like, you know, Facebook, Instagram, like they're serving me up all sorts of stuff from accounts pages that I have never followed. Never really interacted with, but they're like, well, you, you watched this one ski video, so we think you're going to like this one too. And you're like, dang it, you're right. Or you looked at this one data map, I don't know, I love looking at these. And of course you spend a long time staring it and so they're like, oh, this guy's really engaged with this stuff. And so they show you more of that and it's good back. You're like, well, I didn't ask for that, I didn't follow this page. But for those content creators, they're able to reach a much wider audience than they otherwise would have. So I could see the positive side of it too.
- [07:09]
Guest
Yeah, it is certainly a mixed bag, but if you do have a small audience, it's possible to go viral. It's possible to reach much wider than your own kind of first degree network. But for me, I'm still trying to bring it back to your target audience and who is likely to buy from you. That's ultimately who you really want to get in front of. The eyeballs can feel good and going viral can feel good, but really you're there, especially on a platform like LinkedIn. And for side hustlers, you are trying to turn that into a commercial opportunity. So getting in front of the right audience is the most important thing.
- [07:41]
Joe MacKay
Are you proactively making connection requests or is it kind of relying on this content first strategy to grow that network or that follower base on the platform?
- [07:52]
Guest
I think you definitely need both. So I think one of the most powerful aspects of LinkedIn is this ability to search by industry, by job title, by company. So if you're selling a service or have an offer that kind of relates to a certain type of worker or someone who works in a specific industry or with a certain job title, it's a really powerful tool to do that proactive outreach and build your audience. Like take it into your own hands to build, curate an audience that's gonna be relevant to you. By sending those connection requests, then your content strategy is really what becomes your shop window, kind of becomes your, the proof point that you know what you're talking about. When they look at that connection request from you, when they see you show up in the feed, that's, that's where that kind of trust building comes in and hopefully you then able to put an offer in front of a relevant audience later. So I believe the two really need to sit together. You need to go out and build your own Audience and then create, tend to feed that audience and nurture them.
- [08:49]
Joe MacKay
Is there a rule of thumb for how many requests to send on a daily or weekly basis without hitting some spam and red flags?
- [08:57]
Guest
It's more of a rule of Microsoft than a rule of thumb. I think you can send 100 connection requests per week, and I think that doubles if you have LinkedIn Premium.
- [09:06]
Joe MacKay
Okay.
- [09:06]
Guest
If you're doing it manually, you'll just get told that you've hit the limit. There are some automation tools out there which LinkedIn is aware of and is cracking down on some of that stuff. I've never used kind of an automation tool to grow my audience. You can and they plug in, but I know that LinkedIn is tightening the screws on those.
- [09:24]
Joe MacKay
Got it. Okay. I want to go back to the top of the funnel, this awareness type of post. Can you give us some examples or frameworks of it's gotta be, you know, hook story? I imagine there's a handful tools in your tool belt that work really well to try and drive this initial awareness?
- [09:43]
Guest
Yeah, absolutely. Look, something that I'm seeing work really well at the moment because I think like, like all social media, LinkedIn can be a place of overblown positivity. You know, it feels like everyone's making seven figures in their sleep and conquering the world. And so talking about a challenge that you faced, talking about a fail that you had or a mistake that you made along the way in starting your side hustle or building your side hustle is a really great way to, like, people want to see that's compelling content. People do want to learn what happened, but it's also a way to be authentic and share, I guess, a little bit behind the scenes and build that trust kind of at the same time. So I try and use LinkedIn in a really honest way. There is obviously some polish and some curation that goes into putting something out in public. So I guess what I think of is we have a personal life and we have a private life. And if you can get close to that line, so if you can share something from your personal life, especially like as a side hustler or as a solopreneur, we are the brand, we are the business. If you can get close to that line where you're, you're kind of almost in your private life without breaching any trust or sharing anything that you're not comfortable sharing, okay, that can be a really rich vein of stories and ideas and things that you can share that will resonate with a wider audience.
- [10:57]
Joe MacKay
Okay. You know, the opening line that I see over and over again, you know, and you can probably apply this to just about any niche, is like, you know, a hundred million people use ChatGPT, but 99% of them are using it wrong. Or half of America has a side hustle, but 99% of the people aren't doing it right and then it kind of goes in. Is this just a factor of people ripping off what has worked for other people, like other viral threads or other viral posts and saying, how can I apply this to my. I guess that's one way to reverse engineer it.
- [11:26]
Guest
Yeah, look, there certainly are. And if you spend as much time as I have on LinkedIn over the last couple of years, you do start to spot these almost canned templated hooks. Yeah, the 99%, you know, really specific numbers and figures in opening hooks are really popular. So there is a lot of that. And I think that can, tactics like that can help. And you know, there's any number of creators you can go and purchase some, some hook templates or some post templates from. But I predict in 2025 we're going to see more focus on, I'm calling it norm core content. So more your crocs and socks style content, like content that is genuine, it's real. It may not be as polished, but it's based on kind of genuine insight, I guess is what I'm hoping at least to see take over more this year. There will always be that tendency to viral kind of templated style hooks, but I don't think it serves you in.
- [12:21]
Joe MacKay
The long term as somebody who creates a lot of content but never finds the time or prioritizes the time to post on social media, is there some where it's like, how can I take this, this long form podcast interview as one example and like, you know, crank it through some machine where it comes out as like a coherent, you know, LinkedIn formatted type of, type of post.
- [12:43]
Guest
So there's a few. So I mean, for video repurposing specifically, you've got Opus Pro, which does a really good job of taking long, long form content and creating clips.
- [12:52]
Joe MacKay
Okay.
- [12:52]
Guest
I think you're a Descript user. Descript has, has started offering that as well. So vertical video as a format on LinkedIn is really trending upwards. LinkedIn has installed a kind of a TikTok style video feed. So for you as someone who's going to have a lot of video content up your sleeve, some simple repurposing, some shorts, that kind of thing could work really well, in terms of going from a video into like a text based post, ChatGPT can be really helpful to help you kind of pull out key stories and moments. I tend to lean towards moments in a conversation, like if it's a podcast or for me if it's a coaching call with a solopreneur or with a client. The moments when I'm feeling like I'm leaning into the conversation and I can tell they're leaning in if I'm sharing an example or a framework or a story, my brain is kind of just is tracking those moments when it feels like something important is kind of passing through the airwaves, if that makes sense. So I use a lot of tools to help what I do. But I'm also the end of the day just trying to use my own antenna from the conversations I'm having to go, you know, that felt like a moment or that felt like an anecdote or a story or a model that would be relevant, would be, would be good to share. So for me it's that combination of tools and then that human element of just feeling the moment, I guess if that's kind of hard to explain.
- [14:09]
Joe MacKay
Yeah, I mean, and you can look through your own feed to see what is showing up, what is working and obviously apply that to your own voice, into your own niche.
- [14:19]
Guest
Absolutely. I think there is an element of reverse engineering that's possible and that's helpful. You know, see the types of posts that you resonate with and see what you could apply from your own history, your own story, your own lessons. But novel content I think is really important as well. You know, what's something that only you could write about or a post that only you could.
- [14:39]
Nick Loper
Create more LinkedIn tactics with Joe in.
- [14:42]
Joe MacKay
Just a moment, including what not to include in your posts, plus the best tips times to post right after this.
- [14:49]
Nick Loper
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- [17:13]
Joe MacKay
As far as the formatting, this is really helpful like oh, there may be a somewhat of a blue ocean in short form video on this platform because this hasn't historically been a short form video platform and so that's like you know, getting more eyeballs. Anything else? Best practices as far as images versus text versus video versus putting a link in the text. Like all these little nitty gritty tactics.
- [17:34]
Guest
Yeah, absolutely. So LinkedIn really wants to keep people on platform so posts that include external links will get punished by the algorithm. You know LinkedIn will try and suppress those to an extent. So if you include like a YouTube link in your post or a link to your sign up to your newsletter directly that can that will really harm your reach. The flip side is you're going to get a better conversion Rate if it's easy for someone to see your post and then click out to something. So that's sometimes a trade off that, that you might be willing to make. Adding images to posts certainly helps, particularly if they are a story led post. The classic LinkedIn selfies is a bit of a thing for a reason. It does seem to help the algorithm.
- [18:12]
Joe MacKay
Sorry, sorry, what do you mean by that?
- [18:13]
Guest
Well, it's just again, I've spent a lot of time in the big blue box and you'll see a lot of creators who are just adding random selfies to kind of every post and it's, it's a grab for, for reach and it like it definitely works just for me. It's, it's, where's that line of how you want to present your brand and what's relevant to the post or to the story. But adding a selfie, adding a photo of yourself will definitely improve the reach of that post.
- [18:37]
Joe MacKay
Interesting.
- [18:38]
Guest
Okay, yeah, what other tips can I share? So video is absolutely on the rise. Like I'm really leaning into video for 2025, short form video and then your text posts. I think the key is to avoid slabs of text like paragraphs. And paragraphs of text are just hard to digest. Use plenty of white space, you know, hit the enter button, give it lots of line breaks, short paragraphs, make it easy on the brain.
- [19:00]
Joe MacKay
And for yourself or for your clients, any rules regarding. Well, I got to post three times a day, I got to post three times a week. Like what kind of frequency are you finding works best?
- [19:10]
Guest
The kind of 8020 rule where you're going to get 80% of the value is three times a week. And for me I would suggest Monday, Wednesday, Friday, sometime before most people would start work in your own local time. So for me, like I try and schedule posts to go out at 8:30am where I am Monday, Wednesday, Friday. That's a really simple. And again, if you tie it back to that three posts that we're looking at, you could share roughly one of those each week on a Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And that's a really simple, manageable, effective content strategy that's going to help you kind of feed the algorithm the way it needs to be fed, but also not spend forever creating content for LinkedIn.
- [19:47]
Joe MacKay
Is there a way to batch schedule those like upload and schedule in advance or do they prefer you like drafting them in platform and just hitting enter like live?
- [19:57]
Guest
No. So scheduling is a thing so you can. Absolutely. There's a little clock icon when you, when you write a post, you'll see a little clock icon next to the post button and that's where you can schedule. So for me, I'm trying to batch at least a week in a time and get myself a week's Runway in advance. You can get it done really quick.
- [20:14]
Joe MacKay
Yeah. The second type of post we talked about, the awareness posts, these were norm core content. This could be short form videos. This could be struggles, fails. I used to think this, but now I think this. It could be trying to build awareness for who you are, what you do kind of thing. The education piece seems perhaps simpler. It's like, well, this is what. Especially if you're building a business around stuff you already know and do you know. Here's the seven steps to do xyz. It could be some results that you've gotten for a previous client. It could be a tool or tactic that is helping you. Like, I think the education piece is maybe easier to come up with than like, oh, what would be a viral idea in this niche? Like, oh, that's, that's more intimidating. But what do you see working on the education side?
- [20:58]
Guest
The secret sauce with this is that the best content, the most relevant content that's going to resonate with your target audience is not going to be created from scratch. It's going to be harvested. It's going to be found in the interactions you're already having with your customers. So like I was saying before, if I'm on a coaching call and I'm sharing a lesson or a client shares a problem or a question that they're facing with me, that question or that problem can kind of become the opening hook. And then my answer, the way I respond to that or how I help them solve that is the body of the post. And so I'm always looking at repurposing content not across formats or across platforms, but really across, like between delivery, between sales and between marketing, I think you can always be repurposing across those. So you might get onto a discovery call and the objections that you commonly hear or the questions you get before someone decides to purchase from you. Those can be fantastic ideas for content that builds trust. Answer those questions in content.
- [22:02]
Joe MacKay
Yeah, I really like this Q. And a type of creative process where especially if you're already going through the trouble of answering this question, it's like, okay, could you make a note or could you repurpose that to a new platform? Sure, you're going to have to reformat it. You're going to have to find an image or take a selfie and figure out how to answer that. But we had a guest years ago, he said, this is the single most important document that I keep on my computer. It's my questions database. It's the list of questions that people ask me. And the reason it's important is one, it fuels this future content, but second, it kind of gives you these little hints and clues as to what your perceived areas of expertise are, where even if you don't have a side hustle yet, well, what are people asking you questions about? That's something that they think you might have the answer to, that you probably know more about than the average person. At least more than the person asking you. And so I tried to do this for a while, like in a Google sheet, and it was like really tedious. So I just have in Facebook I have a saved label as questions and same thing in email, in Gmail, like I have a label as questions. So I can drag stuff over there when I get email questions. And you know, in my case, that turns into Q and A episodes, but it could just as easily turn into Q and A content here on. On LinkedIn under this education category.
- [23:17]
Guest
Yeah, absolutely. It's such an important way to think about harvesting content rather than starting from scratch. And you know, the hardest thing about creating any content is, is that blank page. And so whatever you can use to get past that is super valuable. The other one I would touch on this idea of trying to take people onto like the workshop, like give them a tour of the workshop of what it's like to work with you or to engage with your. To receive your service or your product or your offer, kind of showing them behind the scenes, whatever that might look like. So might be a shot of your, you know, where you record the podcast or a deliverable that you give to clients or what the onboarding document might look like. Things like that, assets, collateral, stuff that you've got lying around your side hustle that give people a tour of the workshop. I think really valuable content resources as well.
- [24:07]
Joe MacKay
Yeah. How the sausage gets made. My friends in E Commerce do this really well. Like, hey, new shipment just came in. Okay, great. Or we don't have any room in the warehouse. Now it's an excuse to throw a liquidation mini sale or something. Our local ski area does this really well. They're always. Even over the course of the summer, it's not ski season, nobody's thinking about this, but they're showing. Like, here's the improvements that we're making to our mountain look. We're airlifting in new chairlift poles with a helicopter. And it's like they got some cool drone footage of this.
- [24:36]
Nick Loper
And you may not have that, but.
- [24:37]
Joe MacKay
You might have it on a smaller scale. I like this behind the scenes type of content. I think that could be really cool, like building that trust, like another touch point to build up that trust. Now, Joe, the question that comes up a lot Specifically related to LinkedIn is, hey, I'm trying to start a side hustle. LinkedIn is like my professional workplace network for my day job where there may not be a lot of overlap between the two or I may not necessarily want my boss. Hey, I saw you posting about some random what's that all about? How do you toe the line of what do I post publicly? Where do I need to set up a separate profile for my side hustle? And I get that this is the kind of unique situation facing people trying to start something on the side.
- [25:26]
Guest
Yeah, a lot of people are in this situation for various reasons. They haven't had the conversation with their employer or it's not a possibility to have that conversation. I think you can still get a lot of value out of LinkedIn without doing anything above the surface, let's say. So I touched on before, you know, the ability to search by job title, by industry, by company. The direct message capabilities in LinkedIn and the people that you can reach and how focused you can get to a target audience is really valuable. So if you're in that situation where you're not necessarily wanting to publicize what you're doing, then get into the direct messages. It's got good search functionality on LinkedIn. You don't need. Sales Navigator. LinkedIn Premium, I think is, you know, about 70 bucks a month or 60 bucks a month. And with that you can get some better access to connect with people. And you can do a lot of really good work in building a prospect list and selling just in the DMs. So the way that I approach that, or I would suggest people approach that is a simple AB test. So when you send a connection request on LinkedIn, you can either send it just as is, or you can add a short note up to 300 characters to that request. And so I would do like a 50, 50 split. You know, send 10 connection requests without a message attached, send 10 with a simple message that, you know, talks to the pain point you solve or what a lot of customers talk to you about and kind of position your, your service and see which, which of the two kind of gets the best response rate and then lean into that strategy.
- [27:02]
Joe MacKay
Got It. And I imagine if you're creating content about your area of expertise at work, then it's, you know, okay, I'm building my professional network. I'm. To me, it's hard to imagine an employer getting all upset about that. And maybe where the, the challenging part comes in, it's like, well, I do. I do this for my day job, but now my LinkedIn profile is, like, completely out in left field, where I'm like, hey, it says founder of such and such other, you know, random company. And then that's like, where it starts to maybe look a little bit weird. And I, you know, can get on my soapbox and be like, look, your employer doesn't own you 24 hours a day. Like, what do they care? You know, what you're doing in your spare time? But, like, there's still that, like, social norms piece of, you know, workplace etiquette.
- [27:44]
Guest
Yeah, there is. Look, I was fortunate enough to just have a really open conversation, you know, as part of accepting the. The last day job offer I had before I went full time into my side hustle was to have that conversation that, you know, this is the side hustle that I've got. My LinkedIn channel is a key business tool for that side hustle. And that channel, I guess, belongs to me. And not every employer will be as understanding. But from my perspective, if you can be proactive, and if you can kind of stay ahead of it and be proactive with your communication, you know, have that conversation in advance, it's going to be a load off your shoulders. You know, rather than trying to wonder what your boss might be thinking, but do as much as you can on the side. Like, if, if you can find a way to have that conversation, then I think it's. It's valuable. And if, even if the answer is not what you hope, you'll have more information, you'll be in a position to then maybe make a more informed decision from there.
- [28:36]
Joe MacKay
One of the exciting things about this is, yeah, we're trying to, you know, cast a wide net with this awareness type of content. We're trying to narrow that funnel down with this educational type of content. And then we're trying to close the deal with this offer type of content. And depending on what your offer is, it may not take that many takers to build a meaningful side income. I don't know what was in your case, where it's like, okay, could we just hire you to do this for us? Like, people start raising their hand to say yes or for any of your clients can you share some of the results that you've seen where people started to build their connections and all of a sudden that translated into dollars and cents?
- [29:16]
Guest
Yeah, absolutely. For myself. So it started with me just sharing my own thoughts on LinkedIn regularly and getting a bit of traction and engagement and just really enjoying that process to then. I remember vividly my first client was a former boss who was a partner in a management consultancy firm. And it was $500 for 10 posts and we did an interview. I redrafted his profile and then shared 10 posts with him. And it scaled from there. And what I actually found was being in the position of a side hustle. So I spent 12 months where it was just a side hustle. It was my evenings, it was my weekends. I've got two young kids. That meant that I priced the service at a level that kind of reflected the value of that time to me, of my free time to myself. So my entry level package is a four figure investment per month and that's done for you Content and it's kind of, it's scaled from there. As you say, it doesn't take, depending on the service you offer, it doesn't take many prospects to build a really healthy side hustle that you can start thinking more seriously about. That was the case for me.
- [30:21]
Joe MacKay
Yeah, that's awesome. Congrats on building that. I like that. I don't know how you phrased it, but it was like, I want to make sure that I'm charging enough to justify the free time that I'm spending here because my alternative is hanging out with the family or my alternative is sleeping with young kids, or my alternative is, you know, doing any number of other hobbies. And so you got to make it worthwhile. And if it is seen as side hustle or extra income, then it's, hey, take it or leave it. You know, this is the price. I want to circle back to this most common mistake that you see people make with their profiles or with their content there.
- [30:59]
Guest
Yeah. So the common mistake does relate to the offer and that is this idea that we assume that everyone in our network knows exactly what to do next if they want to work with us. We assume that we're creating all this content, we're sending these messages, we've updated our profile, it's clear that we've got this side hustle, this business in X, whatever it is, and that just everyone knows where to find us and if they wanted to engage us or learn more, that they would know exactly what step to take. And that's just not the reality.
- [31:31]
Joe MacKay
And even if it is, it puts a lot of the onus on the prospect to take that leap of faith or, I don't know, unless the pain is really, really strong for them. It's like, okay, who is that guy again? I got to find their thing and sign up for the discovery call or whatever the next step is. But I don't know, I'm kind of with you there. I probably have been guilty of this. You almost have to be reminded of it. You know, there's probably some marketing, oh, you got to see the offer seven times before you take action on it. But there's there, there absolutely is something to this.
- [32:04]
Guest
Yeah. And so that's where this, this offer post, you know, making that offer, putting it in front of people regularly. And it can literally be the same post that you post once a month that says, here's what I do, here's the people that typically benefit most from my services. Here are some of the results I've received. You know, book a discovery call or go to this website if you, if you'd like to learn more. Send me a dm. One thing that's a really crispy good call to action to use is send me a DM with info like tell them exactly the message to send you so that they don't have to sit there in front of a blank page again and go, you know, dear Joe, I've been struggling with my business. Or, you know, take that out of their hands and just say, send me a DM with, you know, keyword, and I'll send you some more information. And just repeating that process regularly and not being shy about that because you're adding new audience all the time. People are busy, they're scrolling through content. And so putting that offer in front of them on a consistent basis is going to help you grow your business.
- [33:04]
Joe MacKay
Okay, is that automated, like, you see that all the time on Instagram, specifically like through manychat or something like Comment Hustle and I'll send you my free guide to xyz.
- [33:16]
Guest
You can automate that. I, I personally don't. I'm trying to just get, get a prospect to send me a DM and then I'm handling those myself individually. But there is, that is another trend that that's going on on LinkedIn at the moment is, yeah, comment keyword for a free copy of my guide. Again, commenting is really good for virality, but I've heard rumors that, that LinkedIn is cracking down on this, this kind of behavior as well. So I would be suggesting DM a keyword to me, kind of below the surface rather than a public comment.
- [33:50]
Joe MacKay
Yeah, that's fair, because it is obnoxious to see people really, really. But I like, I know how the game is played, so I could have some level of appreciation for it. But at the same time, like, really, is this what we're going to do right now? Okay. All right. Well, that was awesome. It was a great crash course on LinkedIn. You got me inspired to kind of spruce up my profile and maybe make a renewed effort to post anything over there. I know it's probably been years since I posted, but we can, we can do that after, after the call.
- [34:20]
Nick Loper
More with Joe in just a moment.
- [34:21]
Joe MacKay
Including his business idea donation for side Hustle show listeners right after this.
- [34:26]
Nick Loper
All right, it's sponsor time.
- [34:28]
Guest
Now.
- [34:28]
Nick Loper
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- [36:41]
Joe MacKay
Let's move on to round two. This is donate a business idea. This is something that you might start.
- [36:47]
Nick Loper
If you had more time.
- [36:48]
Joe MacKay
This is something that you wish existed in the world. This is something, you know, maybe you see an opportunity you think listeners could run with. And so with that I'll kick it back to you.
- [36:58]
Guest
Yeah, so I've spent a fair bit of time recently, like I would say a lot of people listening in ChatGPT and spend a lot of time at that very surface level, you know, sending it funny prompts, asking it random facts and figures. But more recently have dived deeper into building custom GPTs so you can train ChatGPT on your coaching calls, with clients, on your previous content, essentially building a personalized AI tool for yourself. And I could see a million and one different uses for this. It might be a custom recipe GPT, it might be activities to do with the kids on a rainy weekend, like custom GPT. I think it doesn't take much expertise to be a couple of steps ahead of where your average audience member or average GPT user is to have a lot of capability to build something that's bespoke to a like a one to one kind of custom GPT offer. And I can just see so many different uses for it.
- [38:00]
Joe MacKay
If I had thought there was some sort of character limit or internal memory and this could be just for ChatGPT specifically, where it's like you can upload 4,000 words of something, but it's like you're talking about here, what if we uploaded the last 600 episode transcripts from the side Hustle show or like some big body of work or here's a copy of my book. How would Nick answer these questions? That's kind of what you're trying to Ultimately build and so this is kind of a separate tool. I don't know where do you, where do you go to start with or something like that.
- [38:32]
Guest
Yeah, so you can go. And this is based on kind of chat GPT as it exists now in January 2025. But you can go into Explore GPTs and then you can hit the, there's a plus plus icon in the top right I think and you, you do need to have the, the paid version of ChatGPT and you can then add attachments to a knowledge base. You give it a set of master prompts basically that, that it will follow every time. Build, add some attachments in a knowledge base and all of a sudden you can create whatever kind of AI assistant you need. It's very powerful technology.
- [39:06]
Joe MacKay
And then the game plan would be to sell this to another company.
- [39:10]
Guest
Well potentially I could see side hustlers selling this to individuals. I could see people. Yeah selling it to companies. People who maybe are trying to streamline some of their. Whether it's their content creation or have questions answered like almost build an FAQ library from existing kind of resources and assets that they've got. I think there's endless possibilities.
- [39:32]
Joe MacKay
I do see. I mean maybe this is how they accomplish that. Some of like the live chat customer support widgets on certain websites you ask them a question and it used to be. I don't understand that. Let me connect you with a human. But more and more recently it's like hey, it looks like you're asking a question about this. Here's. They must have fed in some sort of large language model based on the. And it spit out a semi coherent answer without connecting to a human. And so maybe that's one potential application I'm trying to go the next step. The idea sounds cool, but who would be a customer base? Could you pre sell a customer who's just like I'm going to build this out because you may not even have access to this library of content or a custom health GPT. You know, given that it's you know, New Year's resolution season. Like oh, we're going to. If you want to optimize for you know, glucose, I don't know the anti inflammatory GPT or something and you know, build in, you know, upload everything that can be found about that specific topic.
- [40:37]
Guest
Yeah, I think where I'm seeing this is just for someone who has some time and is wanting to build a side hustle educating yourself on a tool as powerful as ChatGPT and being able to just be a few Steps ahead of your average person I think could be quite easily monetized in a whole bunch of ways. Like could just be one to one training sessions for boomer dad at home who wants to learn what this AI thing is about. It doesn't take too long to follow your nose on YouTube or wherever you can find information to get. Arm yourself with enough knowledge to create some really interesting stuff that you could then educate others on who are a few steps behind you on the same path.
- [41:17]
Joe MacKay
Okay. Now I'd heard of people using it almost as a co founder, as your business coach. So your spitballing ideas about and it may make sense to provide it with more context than is available on just like the public interface free version. And so you may need to do this plus icon project based thing like here's my financials, here's everything that's gone on in the business so far. Here's my biggest challenges like what do you recommend type of content?
- [41:49]
Guest
Yeah. And so I guess one really specific use case for me has been take some coaching call transcripts and some sales or discovery call transcripts, upload those and build essentially an ideal customer profile. So I create like an AI version of my ideal customer and I then send it email newsletters that I've got in draft. I share draft LinkedIn content with it. I position offers to it and say, you know, get its honest feedback based on everything that it knows. Build that Persona. Like literally build an AI avatar of who you're trying to talk to, who you're trying to target and then bounce ideas off it and see what it thinks.
- [42:27]
Joe MacKay
Yeah. Respond as if you are, you know, this target prospect. What do you think of this sales copier? What do you think of this?
- [42:33]
Guest
Well, literally so even deeper than that, you actually create and you give them, I give them names so that I don't kind of lose track. But my kind of ideal customer profile is called Sarah. And so she like she is that Persona. So she's got kind of that revenue detail. She's heard my coaching calls like she's, I've built a profile of my ideal audience and then I send stuff to her.
- [42:57]
Joe MacKay
Does she give you coherent responses? She give you helpful, helpful responses? Or it's like I'm just, I'm just talking with a robot here.
- [43:04]
Guest
Yeah. No, if you spend the time and there's kind of a process guide that I've outlined to feed it the right prompts to prepare it. And the key is to get that knowledge base and that master prompt. Right. And if you do that, the Results have, have really surprised me. I think one thing I would say is large language models have essentially just absorbed everything on the Internet and they really respond to you by kind of predicting what words generally follow other words in a sequence. So they're not as much as it can feel like. They're thinking critically and logically at the moment. As of whenever this podcast goes out, they're not actually thinking, they're just playing back kind of. They're playing a guessing game really, of what words logically fit in a sequence. But it's very useful.
- [43:48]
Joe MacKay
Okay. And so you can, instead of having it, you know, having consumed the entire archive of the Internet, you want to feed it very specific information to become an expert in your business or in one specific area narrative. All right, I've got a lot to we need to do another AI roundup episode. It's probably been a couple years. It's like, I know so much has changed and there's a lot more that I could be doing in that space to work smarter, not harder, even if it's just with repurposing help or all sorts of strategy. Other next top stuff. But that's fascinating. Custom GPT creation. Joe's business idea donation for you. Let's move on to round three, which is our triple threat. And we're going to start off with a marketing tactic that's working right now. Could be LinkedIn related, could be something else.
- [44:38]
Guest
Yeah. So the tactic that's working for me right now, we talked a lot about creating what I think of as broadcast content, publishing a LinkedIn post, sending an email newsletter, publishing a podcast episode. So one to many, something that's working really well for me. If we think about, I guess, the line of work that I'm in, which is sort of high ticket consultancy, I guess, and coaching sales are going to happen in one to one conversations. You know, it's highly unlikely that a broadcast piece of content is going to directly convert into a sale. So my goal is to get into one to one conversations with people that may want to buy from me. And so what I'm doing now is whether it's an email newsletter or a LinkedIn post that goes out, I'm grabbing it and I'm trying to find three to five people, I guess somewhere in my CRM, in my funnel, I guess I would use the term prospects and sending that piece of content to them one to one. And so it's a simple message like, hey Nick, I wrote this post about the three types of content you need to build your side hustle and I thought of you. And sending that kind of one on one to a small handful of people in my orbit has really rapidly increased the number of conversations I'm having with relevant people. Because you're giving a gift.
- [45:54]
Joe MacKay
Okay. Even if they may already be on your email list, even if they may already have it in their inbox. Like just one extra follow up to be like, hey, just want to make sure you saw this or hey, I thought of you when I wrote this or something.
- [46:04]
Guest
Yeah. You lead with some value, you give it a small gift and it sparks conversations more often than not. And so that's. And again, this idea of trying to harvest content ideas, never stare at a blank page. Use the stuff that you've already produced and then get the most mileage out of it that you possibly can.
- [46:22]
Joe MacKay
Anything that you're using. I don't know if your CRM has contact scoring or any criteria because you have a list of thousands of people. How are you picking who to send this to?
- [46:32]
Guest
Yeah, look, my CRM is a very simple spreadsheet. I have a last contact date and like a rough nurture date and I'm trying to keep those a few weeks apart. So I'm just sorting by who's kind of due or overdue for a nurture and then thinking about the content I've created recently and trying to line those two things up.
- [46:52]
Joe MacKay
Okay. All right. Just trying to stay top of mind and share some goodwill.
- [46:57]
Guest
Absolutely.
- [46:58]
Joe MacKay
All right. Sales happen one to one. How are you cultivating those one on one relationships? Inviting people to do business with you? Love that tactic. The next segment here is a new or new to you tool that you're loving right now. We talked chatgpt, we talked a few other tools, but anything that comes to mind here.
- [47:16]
Guest
Yeah. So this is a little bit maybe in the reverse of the idea of this segment, but I actually removed the mail app from my iPhone over the holidays and it has been a game changer. So I turned off notifications for mail or email and I actually found that was weirdly making me spend more time in email because I was always refreshing to see if anything had come in. And so I just made the switch over the, like just before Christmas, removed the mail app from my phone. And so email is now confined to a batch period of time, like maybe once in the morning, once in the afternoon each day on my computer. And that's it. And I've just found my headspace massively open up. I'm not half wondering in my phone if this could I have a Quick look and check. I'm just, it's really helped me compartmentalize my evenings and my time off.
- [48:06]
Joe MacKay
Yeah, that makes sense. And it sounds like it was email in your case, but it might be TikTok and somebody else's. It might be Instagram. Whatever is that thing that I'm just going in for a quick check and then 15 minutes later you're completely derailed and distracted. Especially if you've got kids, they see you staring at your phone all the time. It's not great. So what does that app that needs to get deleted? You know, maybe go cold turkey, see how much you miss it. And you know, I imagine there's some withdrawal symptoms early on. You know, hopefully you get over that. But that's a really interesting one. I don't know if people, I don't know if anyone has shared that. So I like that. And your favorite book from the last 12 months.
- [48:48]
Guest
Yeah. So this is one that's still on the bedside table. It's not quite finished, but I've taken a lot out of it already. Is Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Godara, who was the owner or sorry, not the owner, but the manager of eleven Square eleven Madison park in New York. So one of the best restaurants in the world. And he shares all his insights on how he built a world leading team, but really how he thinks about serving customers and being hospitable. And so I did some really interesting client gifting at the end of 2024 just using this idea like the thinking of unreasonable hospitality. Like what, what is a crazy nice thing I could do for, for my clients? Well, so I made a donation to a charity that I'm passionate about called Just Dig it on their behalf and send everyone a personalized video note. You know, I don't have thousands or hundreds of customers, but just spending that time to say hi and completely personalize, you know, one to one, tailored to them. And the response I got was really uplifting for me as well. It was a massive win win. And so that book has just taught me to think and for us, like if it's a side hustle or a solopreneur business, like we can do that stuff. You know, we are building personal connections with the people that we're serving and so leaning into that is really powerful on both sides, I reckon.
- [50:08]
Joe MacKay
Unreasonable Hospitality was the book recommendation. That is a new title to me. So we'll have to check that one out. We'll link it up in the show notes along with all the other resources mentioned in this episode, including Joe's newsletter. It's called the Thought Follower. You can find it@joe mackay.info m c k a y.info. follow along for more LinkedIn tips, other Solopreneur strategies. I think you're going to like it. We'll link that up. And Joe, thanks so much for joining me. This has been awesome. I'm taking a ton of notes on LinkedIn and everything else and appreciate your recommendations on what is working here this year. Now if you're new to the show, welcome. Thank you for tuning in. We've got hundreds. You know, if you're just starting here, you got hundreds of episodes in the back catalog to help you make more money. And if you're wondering where to start, I want to invite you to build your own personalized playlist. All you got to do is go to Hustle Show. How it works is you answer a few short multiple choice questions, you tell me a little bit about your side. Hustle interests, your goals, where you're at, where you want to go, and the machine is going to recommend 8 to 10 personalized episodes for you. And this is a newly updated list for this year. So again, that's Hustle show to get that custom curated playlist. Big thanks to Joe for sharing his insight. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone. You can hit up Sidehustlenation.com deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. Thank you for supporting the advertisers that support the show. So that's it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. If you're finding value in the show, the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend. So fire off that text message to somebody who needs to hear this and learn a little bit about upping their LinkedIn strategy. And until next time, let's go out there and make something happen. I'll catch you in the next edition of the side Hustle Show. Hustle on.