675: Rating 10 Popular Passive Income Ideas with Pat Flynn

Summary

The Side Hustle Show Episode 675: Rating 10 Popular Passive Income Ideas with Pat Flynn

Introduction

In Episode 675 of The Side Hustle Show, host Nick Loper welcomes Pat Flynn, renowned for his Smart Passive Income platform and author of the new book "Lean Learning: How to Achieve More by Learning Less." The episode delves into a comprehensive evaluation of ten popular passive income ideas, with Pat Flynn providing insights and ratings based on their current viability and effectiveness.

1. Book Publishing

Rating: 2/10

Pat Flynn and Kap Lynn commence their discussion by evaluating book publishing as a passive income stream. Kap Lynn highlights the significant time investment required to write and publish a book, noting that "creating the thing takes a long time" ([00:48]). He emphasizes that while books can serve as business cards enhancing credibility, direct revenue from book sales is typically modest unless leveraged to promote other products or services. For instance, successful authors like Tim Ferriss ("The 4-Hour Workweek") and James Clear ("Atomic Habits") generate ongoing royalties, but this model generally rates low in direct passive income potential.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "A book takes a long time. For the purpose of passive income, direct passive income from a book, I would give it more like a two." ([00:48])

2. Online Courses

Rating: 7/10

Kap Lynn assigns online courses a rating of seven, acknowledging their potential for scalability and recurring revenue. He points out that the landscape for online courses has evolved, with an abundance of information available. To stand out, courses must target specific niches and offer unique value propositions. Transitioning from traditional pre-recorded formats to cohort-based models, which incorporate community and accountability, has proven effective in maintaining engagement and delivering results ([03:40]).

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "If you have the right audience and you're targeting the right people, whether you use ads or not, it can be very, very fruitful." ([04:45])

3. Blogging

Rating: 1/10

Once a top contender for passive income, blogging now receives a disappointing rating of one. Kap Lynn laments the diminishing visibility of blogs due to changes in search engine algorithms and the rise of AI-generated summaries that overshadow organic search results ([06:16]). He observes that platforms like YouTube and podcasts have eclipsed traditional blogging in terms of audience engagement and accessibility.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "If I could rank it below one, I would. It's sad." ([06:26])

4. Real Estate

Rating: 6/10

Real estate, particularly single-family rental properties, is rated six. Kap Lynn acknowledges its potential for consistent cash flow and appreciation but cites the high initial capital, ongoing management responsibilities, and risks associated with tenant turnover ([08:58]). He notes that while some investors successfully scale their portfolios, many find the demands overwhelming compared to online business ventures.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "I would put it at a six. It is for those who enjoy that kind of stuff, but other people, there are maybe better ways to spend their time." ([10:00])

5. E-Commerce

Rating: 7/10

E-commerce earns a rating of seven, reflecting its balance between effort and potential rewards. Kap Lynn shares his experience with Switchpod, a handheld selfie stick sold on Amazon and his website, emphasizing the benefits of leveraging third-party logistics (3PL) to minimize hands-on management ([12:16]). He also discusses white labeling as a less capital-intensive alternative, allowing entrepreneurs to brand existing products without the complexities of manufacturing.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "E-commerce is very passive. We are generating revenue through it and it is an asset now." ([13:46])

6. Software or Apps

Rating: 9/10

Software and app development receive a near-perfect rating of nine. Kap Lynn underscores the scalability and low incremental costs associated with digital products. He shares his own journey with Fuse Box (formerly Smart Podcast Player), highlighting the enduring revenue from plugin registrations and the minimal maintenance required once the product is established ([22:25]). Additionally, he discusses the importance of maintaining and updating software to ensure longevity and user satisfaction.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "It's like Dropbox. I can't live without Dropbox. I'm going to pay that monthly." ([22:40])

7. Product Licensing

Rating: 6/10

Product licensing is rated six, acknowledging its passive nature but also recognizing the complexities involved. Kap Lynn explains how inventors can license their ideas to established companies, earning royalties without the need for manufacturing or distribution ([24:36]). However, he cautions about the legal intricacies and the necessity of securing fair agreements to avoid exploitation.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "It's probably the most passive idea we've talked about so far because literally after you sign that deal and agreement, it's basically hands off." ([26:44])

8. YouTube

Rating: 9/10

YouTube is highly rated at nine, reflecting its vast reach and potential for substantial passive income. Kap Lynn shares his success with the Pocket Monster channel, which boasts 1.65 million subscribers and nearly a billion views, generating a five-figure monthly income ([28:53]). He discusses strategies such as maintaining separate channels for different content types (e.g., long-form vs. shorts) to cater to varied audiences. The platform's ability to accumulate evergreen content that continues to generate views and revenue over time is a significant advantage.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "You can create a deep relationship with your audience there. And with that deep relationship with that trust that you build, you can build anything really." ([33:11])

9. Affiliate Marketing

Rating: 10/10

Affiliate marketing secures the top spot with a perfect rating of ten. Kap Lynn highlights its low barrier to entry and the ability to start earning commissions immediately by promoting products aligned with one's audience ([33:14]). He emphasizes the importance of authenticity and providing genuine value, which fosters trust and encourages conversions. Additionally, affiliate marketing can lead to deeper partnerships and advisory roles with companies, enhancing both income potential and professional relationships.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "Affiliate marketing, I think is a 10. It's the easiest to start with." ([33:14])

10. Advisorships

Rating: 7/10

Advisorships receive a rating of seven, recognizing their potential for passive income albeit with certain commitment levels. Kap Lynn describes his role as an advisor for multiple companies, where he offers strategic insights and feedback in exchange for equity or royalties ([38:07]). While the financial rewards can be significant if the company succeeds, the initial setup and ongoing participation require dedication and expertise.

Notable Quote:

Kap Lynn: "Advisorship doesn't really come in until either the company sells, gets acquired or IPOs." ([38:43])

Key Takeaways

1. Scalability and Automation: Passive income streams that leverage automation and require lower ongoing management, such as software/apps and affiliate marketing, tend to offer higher ratings.

2. Initial Investment vs. Returns: Ideas like real estate and e-commerce require substantial upfront investment and ongoing effort, which may impact their viability for some entrepreneurs.

3. Niche Targeting: Success in areas like online courses and YouTube hinges on effectively targeting and engaging specific niches to stand out in a crowded marketplace.

4. Diversification: Combining multiple passive income streams can mitigate risks and enhance overall revenue stability.

5. Authenticity and Value: Building trust and providing genuine value, particularly in affiliate marketing and content creation, are critical for long-term success.

Conclusion

Episode 675 provides a thorough analysis of prevalent passive income strategies, with insights from both Pat Flynn and Kap Lynn. The discussion emphasizes the importance of aligning income strategies with personal strengths, available resources, and market demands. While some methods require significant upfront effort and investment, others offer more scalable and automated potential, catering to a diverse range of entrepreneurial aspirations.

For listeners seeking to embark on their passive income journeys, the episode serves as a valuable guide to prioritizing efforts on the most effective and sustainable opportunities.

Transcript

[Nick Loper]

Today we're looking at 10 popular passive income ideas to see which might make.

[Pat Flynn]

The most sense for you.

[Nick Loper]

And to help me do it is.

[Pat Flynn]

Mr. Smart passive income himself, Kap Lynn. Welcome to the side Hustle show.

[Kap Lynn]

Nick, thank you so much for having me. Longtime listener and you know, you and I have been friends for a while. It's just I'm so honored to be back on the show and here hanging out with you.

[Pat Flynn]

Well, I'm honored to have you. I mean, nobody has had a bigger influence on the creation in the early years of side Hustle Nation than yourself. So I've been. It's been such a fun journey and a sincere thank you to everything that you do.

[Kap Lynn]

My pleasure, My pleasure.

[Pat Flynn]

The new book is Lean Learning how to Achieve More by Learning Less. And it's coming out this week, so why don't we start there? Smart passive income idea number one. What grade would you give book publishing here? I know you've got experience in the self publishing world, in the traditional publishing world. What's your take on this one?

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, so when I think of passive income, there's always going to be an investment of time to create the thing. Nothing, of course, as you teach and as I teach, nothing just happens overnight. And there's sort of two levels to this. Right. There is the how long does it take to create. Create the thing. And then actually after it's created, how passive is it? Actually? A book takes a long time. I will say. Are we ranking from like 1 to 10? 10 being a great idea, 1 being not so great or.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, sure. You could do a letter grade.

[Nick Loper]

Number grade.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, let's do one through 10.

[Kap Lynn]

I would say for the purpose of passive income, direct passive income from a book, I would give it more like a two and I give it a two because it is a gosh, it is an adventure and a journey to create the book. You likely need more of an audience first before you actually then sell the book. To write a book and then sell it and build an audience with a book is a little bit more difficult, although possible. And then the revenue from the book itself is not going to be that grand. I mean, that's not why you should be writing a book, for the revenue. Although I knew some people who do have some business models around books and they're writing multiple books on Amazon and that is working for some people.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah.

[Kap Lynn]

In general, the revenue for a book is more likely to come from, well, what is the book then lead to? Does it lead to something else that is more passive? Like a. Like A course or some program or something. A software that you might have. That's where it could really. You could turn off the afterburners, but a long time to create not very much direct revenue. A 2 out of 10.

[Pat Flynn]

Get everybody real fired up to start dusting off the keyboards and start writing a book.

[Kap Lynn]

Maybe it's because I just finished this one and it's like been such a slog.

[Pat Flynn]

Multi year journey. Yeah, yeah.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh gosh, two and a half years. And you know, I'm, I'm talking about it so much. It's just like don't start here. But it is something beautiful. It is something that can land more speaking gigs. It is something that could lead to more sales of other things for sure.

[Pat Flynn]

But you're still collecting royalties off of Will It Fly and superfans like it is.

[Nick Loper]

Once it's out there.

[Pat Flynn]

Like it's out there and it's. You create. Did it create it once, sell it over and over again?

[Kap Lynn]

True, very true. I mean we, we know Four Hour Work Week is still selling for Tim Ferriss. Atomic Habits is still selling for James Clear. That's very passive. And the royalties I'm sure not bad.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, there's, there's something to that. The people I see having the most success in self publishing are the serial authors of the world where it's just like they're cranking out book after book. Chris Gillebo probably an example of this, where it's just like. Or in the fiction space where it's just like, hey, the next book in the series is coming out. If you have a. Oh yeah, build up a legion of fans who.

[Kap Lynn]

She falls in love with a wolf this time. Not a V empire like the next part of the series.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, yeah, whatever it is. But in the, in the, in the non fiction world. Think of it, you know, the book has a business card like Pat said. What does it lead into? Does it lead into a chorus? Does it lead into speaking engagements? Does it. It's like the, the Tony Robbins example. You can buy the book for $10 or you can go to the $10,000 walk across hot coals three day.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah.

[Pat Flynn]

Think of it as one product in the, in the pricing tier. But, but Pat gives publishing a 2. The second passive income idea on our list is online courses. We talked a little bit about this on the show recently. But what's your, what's your take here on the current state of online courses?

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, I would put this more at a 7. So much on the higher end because it is something that allows you to create once and then sell over and over and over again. And if you have the right audience and you're targeting the right people, whether you use ads or not, it can be very, very fruitful. However, you have to battle a couple things that we're dealing with today versus how it once was. When you and I first started, things like online courses were super valuable because that information didn't exist before. Right. It's now packaged and conveniently placed here in this course and that's worth a person's money in exchange for the value of what's inside. Now, as I talk about my book, Lean Learning, information itself just isn't as valuable as it once was. Right. If you had an Encyclopedia Britannica in your home before, it was valuable. Now that's a waste because everybody has access to all the same information now. So if you just crank out an online course expecting to just put information that is again, freely available pretty much anywhere else and package it in a course, unless you have A, a rabid fan base or B, you somehow position that material in a way that is specific to a group of people. So riches are in the niches, as I often say.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah.

[Kap Lynn]

Then it's going to be very difficult to get any movement on that. It doesn't, in my opinion, take a lot of time to create. If you know exactly what you're talking about and you use, you can even use tools like AI to help you outline and create things. But unless there's some personality into it or something unique about it for who it is you're selling it to, it's going to be very, very tough because I think a lot of people are in the camp of I don't need more information today.

[Pat Flynn]

Right, Right. It's like, how do I structure it? We've seen that shift from straight up pre recorded video courses to more of cohort based systems where it's like, we're gonna, we're all gonna start this thing on June 1st. We're all gonna go through it together and there's some level of accountability or one on one or group coaching versus straight, you know, prerecorded evergreen Online material.

[Kap Lynn]

Exactly, exactly. That's actually what we did in at SPI. So we were selling online courses from 2017 to 2020 and we've switched more toward what we call a community powered course model, which is groups of people going through these courses at a time. You can still take them on your own if you'd like. And they're all in a membership now. But yeah, the ones that are working really well where people are getting real results. And the value is absolutely there are. When people go through it together with others in a cohort style with a start date and an end date and some accountability along the way.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, it's an interest. Interesting place to be as a, as a purveyor of information or a seller of information in a. In an age when information is so overwhelmingly available. And maybe this kind of leads into the next one. The next one on this list. Number three is blogging. This was like, you know, at the top of everyone's passive income list, you know, 10, 15 years ago.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh yeah.

[Pat Flynn]

And just with the algorithm updates and the Reddit in the search results and the AI answer snippets. A much tougher game in this, in this space.

[Kap Lynn]

Yes, I would rank blogging. If I could rank it below one, I would.

[Pat Flynn]

Wow. Wow.

[Kap Lynn]

At this point. It's sad.

[Pat Flynn]

As a longtime blogger.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh man. Yes. I mean, that's how I got my start. It's how everything started. And you were missing out on opportunities by just sticking with text alone. Does this mean it's not possible? No. There are people who are amazing bloggers who, they have that voice and they. That's their favorite medium and that's okay. But in terms of getting more rapid results and leaning into the platforms that are working, like YouTube or audio podcasts, you're definitely missing out that opportunity to meet audiences where they're at. Right. Not force people to read stuff when they're elsewhere. That's why I think these other platforms are more beneficial. And I would rank those higher, which we might get into. But in terms of blogging, you had mentioned the exact reasons why it's not working anymore. Search engine optimization has changed. When I look up for something in Google, I don't see the first organic search results anymore. I see, number one, an AI summary from Google. The answer. Then I find a number of ads and sponsored posts. Then I see, of course the first organic posts are then going to be Reddit and anything that is from anybody that is more like us is going to be buried not on the first page, but like 40 search results down at least, or something like that. Again, that's a general sort of blanket statement, but it makes blogging in that method harder. We're even seeing a lot more text being put into now email newsletters rather than more publicly facing blogs, but rather as a medium or middle funnel kind of situation versus a top of funnel. That being said, a lot of email service providers now are providing top of funnel through the email medium in likes of Kids, Creator, Network or Substack and its little, you know, way to kind of promote newsletters amongst each other. So yeah, this is why I think there's more opportunities that are better than blogging. And sadly, I'd give it a one.

[Pat Flynn]

Interesting. So if you're, if you're a, a text focused creator or if that's your sweet spot, maybe shift to a newsletter type of business or even a paywall type of newsletter through Substack or something like that.

[Kap Lynn]

That would be my recommendation. Yes. And that forces you to go, okay, how do I compete with these others who are getting people's emails and become the person that when a person wakes up in the morning and my email gets sent through, what's going to make them open my email? Because they're in an inbox. We know people are in inboxes still. Yeah, that's what we have to our advantage. Doing emails versus blogging. Where are people even looking up this kind of stuff and finding blogs anymore? No, they're on YouTube and Reddit and other places like that.

[Pat Flynn]

Yep. Yeah, we'll get into some of those. So that was number three. Got a rating of one. Blogging did. Number four on the list of passive income ideas is real estate. And real estate comes in a lot of different flavors, but let's call it single family rental properties for the sake of simplicity here.

[Kap Lynn]

So this leads me to like the bigger pockets community and those kinds of people. I've had conversations with, with people there recently. I have participated in real estate as well, getting a single family home as a rental that I can then kind of experiment with. And I found out quickly that that just wasn't for me. There were a lot of fees and, you know, connecting with a management company. Overall, my time, I for me was better spent in the online business space and creating things in this world versus that world. That being said, there are a lot of people who do very well there and it's kind of up to you how well and how far you want to go. I know people who have hundreds of homes and multifamily homes and even commercial buildings who have built empires, but they're also leading teams of hundreds of people and are overwhelmed with that. And for some that's awesome, and for others it's not necessarily a road you want to go down, while others just have a few rental properties for some extra cash or something like a, like an Airbnb situation for some extra cash flow, which is fine. I would put it at a six. It is for Those who enjoy that kind of stuff, but other people, there are maybe better ways to spend their time.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, potential cash flow, potential appreciation, potential tax benefits. But you know, for every person shouting the benefits of passive income through real estate, a graveyard of burnt out landlords saying it was anything but for sure.

[Kap Lynn]

And the capital to begin, the time and energy and effort to begin that is a lot higher than, you know, creating something online or building a YouTube channel or something like that. For sure.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. I was talking with somebody in the, in the personal finance space of a similar question. He said, yes, wealthy people park their money in real estate as an inflation hedge. But he was like, in your situation specifically, your ROI is going to be so much better spent doing what you do. Pouring more fuel on the creator business on the fire. Yeah. Just because it's so lean, low overhead and you can see the immediate impact there.

[Kap Lynn]

Right. My trouble with real estate is how slow it is in terms of, well, and of course like if you sell a home, if you're selling homes versus like having a home for a rental, either way you need tenants and ideally you just want the tenants to stay there forever and have that passive income continue. However, it's now no longer completely under your control. What happens? Because if something happens to the home or they're the tenants aren't great and they move out, it's like now you have to then answer to that in order to keep the passive income going. And all passive income streams require some upkeep of sorts. And again, real estate can be very beneficial. But for me, in my liking, I would put it at a six. And you know, I, I feel there's better opportunities for sure for passive income.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, we've got some fun, a fun series of what I call unconventional rental businesses. Yeah, houses are expensive, but here are some other assets that you can get into for a lot less. And it started with, you know, somebody doing bounce house inflatables like, and that was his inspiration is like, well, he wanted to get into real estate investing. Here's a different kind of house that I could buy for a lot less.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, that's great.

[Pat Flynn]

But we did mobility scooters, we've done photo booths, we did a guy who was doing moving boxes in Sacramento. We had a woman doing bridesmaid dresses in Australia. These other, other rental assets where it's like, yeah, there's a little bit of labor involved and some upfront cost, but a lot less than a house. But some interesting ones. Number five on our list of passive income ideas is E Commerce. And you've got some experience here with the Switchpod. I do a handheld selfie stick basically. But is this thing still selling?

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, it is still selling. It's very passive. I mean it's not totally hands off. It's for sale on Amazon and our Switchpod Co website. This is in partnership with my buddy Caleb, my videographer. We invented something and I think E commerce could be split into a couple different realms. I mean, we went the hard route for sure. And this was more of an experimental play for both of us to try something we hadn't tried before. And we had this idea, it wasn't done before. The idea behind the tripod is these legs can fold into each other and become a handle for you to easily kind of open and close and do your filming on the go. So that's what the Switchpod is. And it worked really well. We launched it in 2019 on Kickstarter and we had generated $415,000 in 60 days from that launch. But it was not an overnight thing for sure. It took time to invent and create and iterate and fail on and, you know, quite a bit of investment, you know, 25 to 30k of our own dollars put into that. But it is now for sale in a semi passive manner and we're generating revenue through it and it is an asset now that, you know, has a value and if we wanted to, we could sell it and, you know, we're open to that potentially. That being said, there are ways to do E commerce that are much easier, using tools like white labeling to be able to take a product that already exists, maybe change it just a little bit or add a logo to it and then create a brand around that. This is how much of what's being sold on Amazon. That's how it's working. TikTok Shop as well. And that is not having to invent the product, but you're, you're molding it to a particular audience in a way. And that works really well. There's a lot of people who are very, very well known in that world.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. And maybe less upfront. I mean, still going to have a capital intensive business with minimum order quantities and stuff if you're getting something manufactured. But perhaps less than inventing something completely from scratch and going through design iterations and everything.

[Kap Lynn]

Correct, correct. And of course there's. Okay, do you, where do you house these? Like, do you have a warehouse? Do you store them in your home and do you have to package and ship them yourself? These are all thoughts that reduce the passiveness of this. Yeah, it can be fun to do that. But we use, with Switchpod, we use a third party logistics company, A3PL, to be able to just automate any sales that come in through either our website or Amazon. They get the address, they ship it out, we just pay a minimal fee for that. And that's again what keeps us as passive as possible. Even though it eats into our profits, we want it to be as passive and we're not going to lean into it and scale it up in a way that takes more of our time.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, I think of every layer of assistance that you have through either fulfillment by Amazon or through a three pl, somebody, somebody's taking a fee for warehousing this thing. Somebody's taking a fee for packing that off the shelf and packing it. But it's. If the design is to be hands off, then it's worth it. Especially if you got the margin to.

[Kap Lynn]

Play with for sure.

[Pat Flynn]

Now for the direct to consumer examples that we've seen, it's like they've got a bake in kind of customer acquisition. And so I was like, well it's going to cost us 5, 10, 20, sometimes more just to acquire a customer and hope in the case of Switchpods, like, well, it's kind of a one time purchase unless like somebody's running a whole videography team.

[Kap Lynn]

Right.

[Pat Flynn]

And so some of the other successful products that we've seen have kind of almost a, some level of baked it. Not necessarily like a full like subscribe and save type of deal, but like. Yeah, but like a consumable type of thing.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, yeah, that, that works really, really well. Like I know a person who does protein powder and it's like these people subscribe every month because they need their protein powder and they're, they're kind of in a ritual with it, which is, which is amazing. There are some things like that for other products like you know, you know, batteries, etc. The things that people use and then have to like re up into.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, like a native deodorant or something like soaps.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. So E commerce is a big world, but I would give it a seven because there's definitely opportunity there. I think there's a lot of, a lot to be said with how passive you could potentially make it as well as just, just the joy of seeing somebody use the thing like physically. Yeah, there was so much joy in having people buy the Switchpod and then literally use it and see it and get value from it versus like okay, now you bought the course, but you still have to spend a month to dive into it and put into practice.

[Pat Flynn]

Right, Right. Yeah. It's like instant, instant gratification. You see it out into the wild. I think that's cool.

[Kap Lynn]

Correct, correct.

[Pat Flynn]

The other important thing that you brought up here is, yes, it's an evergreen asset that can make sales relatively passively, but the business itself is an asset that has equity. And that's what I love about building these little businesses is like, yes, I'm working for cash flow in the near term, but I'm also working for equity. And that's kind of like the big wealth unlock where it leads to some, some bigger outcomes, but.

[Kap Lynn]

Right, it's like real estate online versus in the house.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, exactly. All right, so E comm was rated a 7. Number 6 on our list of passive income ideas is software or apps. We're going to get Pat's reaction to that, plus the rest of our passive income ideas coming up right after this. One strategy I didn't fully embrace or.

[Nick Loper]

Maybe wasn't fully aware of when I was starting out was this idea of the piggyback principle. In the startup phase, that means you don't have to start completely from scratch, but instead you can take advantage of existing tools, templates, playbooks, best practices from the people who've gone before you. A perfect example of this is our partner, Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses, from household names to side hustlers on their way to becoming household names. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store and start selling. Plus, Shopify is packed with helpful AI tools to accelerate your workflow. We're talking product descriptions, page headlines and even enhancing your product photography. You can even easily create email and social media campaigns to reach your target.

[Pat Flynn]

Customers wherever they're scrolling or strolling.

[Nick Loper]

If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into. With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com sidehustle go to shopify.com sidehustlez shopify.com sidehustleen for such.

[Darina Coolia]

An important channel like phone, the software powering this important channel was super outdated and clunky. We wanted to make it delightful and make it very easy for businesses to connect with their customers through voice and text.

[Pat Flynn]

That's Darina Coolia, co founder of our sponsor, OpenPhone.

[Nick Loper]

Trusted by more than 60,000 customers, this is the number one business phone system.

[Pat Flynn]

That streamlines and scales your customer communications.

[Darina Coolia]

We bring your calls, your messages, your contacts in one simple place. And we allow you to bring in your team so you as a business owner don't end up being the bottleneck. And we really make it easy for you to deliver that incredible experience right.

[Pat Flynn]

It's all about speed, streamlined communication, team access into one centralized place. I think that makes a lot of sense.

[Darina Coolia]

Something that all of our customers love is ability to have a shared phone number, which really is great for calling and texting. So when someone calls you or texts you, there's multiple that can team up on responding and everyone is in the loop about that conversation. This visibility is so critical, especially as you scale.

[Pat Flynn]

And the ability to text a business is like a new and novel thing that as a customer, I really appreciate.

[Darina Coolia]

One thing that we've launched at OpenPhone, which is, I think a game changer is Sona, which is our voice AI agent. It basically helps you never have a single missed call. It can handle responses to any common questions, basically any questions that you train it on, and then can capture that information so you can quickly follow up. We are helping businesses never lose a customer because a missed call is a lost opportunity.

[Pat Flynn]

Now, OpenPhone has automatic AI call summaries, so you don't have to worry about.

[Nick Loper]

Taking notes while you're on the call.

[Pat Flynn]

But another cool feature is what Darina called AI call tagging. Basically allowing you to quickly filter for the calls that were sales objections or customer complaints or requests for a discount so you can review those and see what worked, what didn't, and train team members on the most effective tactics and language in those cases. And it's all in the name of building a better, faster and friendlier customer experience.

[Darina Coolia]

I want all OpenPhone customers to have five stars only.

[Pat Flynn]

Right now, OpenPhone is offering Side Hustle show listeners 20% off your first six months at openphone.com sidehustle that's O P E N P H O N E. And if you have existing numbers with.

[Nick Loper]

Another service, OpenPhone will port them over.

[Pat Flynn]

At no extra charge. OpenPhone, no missed calls, no missed customers.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh, this is something that when you can nail it, I mean, it could be a game changer. It is. So I have experience with software and I failed completely one time and I had spent $20,000 diving into it too quickly. And that was the big lesson. I was chasing dollars with software versus chasing building a solution for a group of people. This is back in 2013, 2014. I was almost. You watch those old cartoons and the dollar signs are coming out of the eyeballs. That was me, and I needed that lesson. It really grounded me to have failed on that. Building a WordPress plugin that really went nowhere. I didn't even take it to market because I had tried to keep this whole thing secret. And then I eventually let people know about it, and they were like, this is not good. I would never buy this. If only I had learned to practice what I now teach in my book, Will It Fly? Which is to share these ideas, have them poke holes in it, get those ideas up front before you build or spend money anyway. Software companies, though, I mean, I would put this at a nine. It's going to take a little bit more time, but you can work with a minimum viable software or product. I'm reminded of a very, very popular podcast episode on my show with Dane Maxwell, who was a. You remember Dane? Dane talked about. The example he used was somebody who was like a building inspector who every time they went to inspect a building, they took out a sheet of paper, and they'd have to manually put all this stuff in. And then it took some time to, like, scan it and do it. Like, there was so much labor. He was able to build an iPad app that would do all this for you, where you could take pictures of buildings and it would measure it for you, and then you can keep track of it in a portfolio. And he created a software, very minimal, by the way, but it just did the job that these people would pay, like, $99 a month to use. And he was able to get hundreds and then thousands of people to use this software product and then ended up selling that again as an asset to another company that took it to a whole new level.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Monthly cash flow plus equity in the business. Yeah. Recurring revenue.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh, gosh. It was. It's like the dre. And with software, it's nice because when you nail it, then it's just like, okay, your product's there. A, you just have to sell more of it. You don't have to touch anything. It's just done automatically once people buy it.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. It's ones and zeros. The incremental cost is next to nothing.

[Kap Lynn]

Exactly. And B, similar to a physical product. And the joy that I was talking about there, people can get immediate value from the tool that you create for them. The utility of it happens almost immediately with. With software. And when it. When you can bake in the software into a person's process. Like, imagine a Dropbox. Like, I can't live without Dropbox. I'm going to pay that monthly.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. It becomes, it becomes very sticky.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh, yeah.

[Pat Flynn]

There's certain tools like that where it's like the switching costs are so high, it's like, fine, here comes the other annual, annual billing here for sure.

[Kap Lynn]

So the upside is huge because, you know, if it's sticky, then you get another a hundred people the next month and they stick. And then you get another hundred the next month and it can just continue to stack. The only issue with software is as passive as it can become, if you let it become too passive, it's going to become out of date. Or there's also going to be maybe some bugs that, that pop up or some outlier cases that you're going to have to squish.

[Pat Flynn]

Sure, yeah. There's maintenance. Yeah.

[Kap Lynn]

Right. So it's not a release of software and then you're on the beach with your laptop enjoying cocktails kind of thing. It's going to require some upkeep, but it's not a trade your time for dollars situation at all. And there might be seasons where, you know, something blows up, the servers crash and it's like Now I'm working 16 hours a day to fix this thing. That kind of stuff can happen. But the software opportunity is huge and you know, more and more people, I even, I saw Ryan Dice recently from Digital Marketer. He retired Digital Marketer. He's going into software now.

[Pat Flynn]

Oh, okay.

[Kap Lynn]

There's a huge play there.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Fuse Box, formerly smart podcast player, still is the embedded podcast player on, on the side Hustle Nation website.

[Kap Lynn]

Amazing.

[Pat Flynn]

Do you still own that business?

[Kap Lynn]

I do, I do.

[Pat Flynn]

Okay. All right, See, there's passive plugin registration fees every year coming, coming from at least one user over here.

[Kap Lynn]

Thank you.

[Pat Flynn]

All right. And we've got actually a recent episode this year on using AI to build out some of these software tools with Pete McPherson. And I'll link that up in the show notes. You don't necessarily need to know how to code to get bring something to market, which is really, really eye opening episode.

[Kap Lynn]

That's right.

[Pat Flynn]

Number seven on our list is product licensing. Do you have any experience in this space?

[Kap Lynn]

I do not, but I know some people who do. So there's, there's some levels to this. Right. On one level, I inter interviewed a person who was the inventor of the Rumpelstiltskin. No, not Rumpelstiltskin. What's the bear? Teddy Ruxpin.

[Pat Flynn]

Oh, okay, yeah, okay. Yeah, I remember those commercials.

[Kap Lynn]

That was the weirdest thing I've ever said on podcast. Teddy Ruxpin, which was Like a, a little bear from the 80s and 90s that would like talk back to you. It had like a plastic heart that would light up. This was this person's idea that he then sold to a company and got a license to. Basically he was getting royalties on everyone that was sold. I don't know what the percentage was exactly, but I mean, he had the idea, he shared it with a company who wanted the idea. He was able to make a deal and great. He was giving some examples to. I wish I remember the name off the top of my head, but this was one of the first hundred episodes, I think, of the podcast and I'm close to 900 now, so I'll find it in a sec. I definitely want to give him credit, but he was talking about like, what if you had an idea for a tool but you didn't have any manufacturing idea, you didn't have molds, you never done that before. But you had this great idea, you could go to a company and present it and license that idea to them and make, make a rev.

[Pat Flynn]

Share.

[Kap Lynn]

Is that, is that kind of in the realm of what you're talking about? With, with.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. And I'm wondering if the person you're thinking of is Stephen Key from Invent. Right?

[Kap Lynn]

Stephen Key. That's right. That, that's exactly right.

[Pat Flynn]

From his, you know, world headquarters up at Lake Tahoe, he's kind of overseeing and helping a bunch of other inventors in this space where it's like, yeah, you might get, you know, a 3 to 5% royalty licensing agreement, but you had zero startup costs aside from maybe a sample or you know, some prototype, you know, a provisional patent application and then sending it out to these companies that already have the manufacturing know how and the distribution channels. And it's like, right, that's a really, really compelling versus because we kind of pitched it against the white labeling or private labeling, Amazon FBA model, where it's so capital intensive. And even when you do have a product that hits, you're plowing everything back into extra inventory for sometimes years.

[Kap Lynn]

Yep.

[Pat Flynn]

It's like, well here, let, let somebody else deal with that. If you, if you get a kick out of just coming up with the ideas like, like some. Let somebody else handle all those hard parts and just do the fun stuff.

[Kap Lynn]

Right? It's probably the most passive idea we've talked about so far because literally after you sign that deal and agreement, it's, it's basically hands off at that point. And how cool is it to just say like, oh, I, you know, this was my idea, but now another company owns it, but you get some shares. That's. That's really cool. Where I was going before, in terms of. There's another level to this is there's a lot of people who have information. Like they might have a course or program to license that to somebody who now has an audience. Right. There's a world where your information inserts itself into somebody else's course, for example, who might have an audience in a baked in marketplace, for example. And they will pay you sort of a fee to essentially license your material. So it's not just the idea. It could be your actual material can be used and using that inside of, you know, I spoke with somebody a number of years ago, but he took his material and it became a part of this company's sort of employee onboarding process.

[Pat Flynn]

Oh, okay. Okay.

[Kap Lynn]

Just use his material instead of. Instead of their own. They just licensed it.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. Somebody else has already created it. They done a nice job.

[Kap Lynn]

Right?

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. We don't have to reinvent the wheel here.

[Kap Lynn]

Right, Right. So, like, thinking, you know, more broadly about how your material could make sense for other industries and other companies, it might be a value for you to offer a license to use that versus, you know, them creating it on their own and in it not being as good because you were the expert on that.

[Pat Flynn]

Interesting. Yeah. Maybe there's a B2B corporate. Corporate training side hustle in licensing some of your material.

[Kap Lynn]

The tough part is making sure you read all the documents, you have a good attorney, you make sure that you don't fall into traps, because people do fall into traps in here because they don't know what they're doing and they're being taken advantage of. And that's the big worry here. So for this, I would give it a six, because even though there's less cost upfront, it is, you know, manual labor to figure out and to work with an attorney perhaps, is maybe where the most cost would be upfront with these ideas. And you have to learn how to communicate your ideas and present and, you know, probably come up with a slide deck and all those kinds of things. Right. I mean, Shark Tank is maybe a version of this. Right. Where you can share maybe some parts of your business in exchange for somebody who has those connections.

[Pat Flynn]

Very good. That was number seven, product licensing. Number eight. Talk to me about YouTube. Talk to me about becoming the biggest Pokemon influencer around.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah. 2020 came around. We were all sitting here. My kids were getting into Pokemon, so I decided to start a collection with them. And through My collection. I started to find other YouTubers and I got, you know, my entrepreneurial brain and turned on and I was like, wow, there's a lot of YouTubers here who are doing really great things, but they're all kind of doing the same thing. I think based on my experience, I could come and bring something more interesting and tell some better stories, which is exactly what I did. And so now Fast forward to 2025. First video came out in early 2021. We have 1.65 million subscribers. We are approaching 1 billion views on our long form channel and it has now accounted for a 5 figure per month income.

[Pat Flynn]

A billion views open in Pokemon packs. Deep pocket monster.

[Kap Lynn]

I'm a 42 year old man opening cardboard with, with some shine on it sometimes. And now there's also a shorts channel that was created, kind of siloed off off of that.

[Pat Flynn]

Okay.

[Kap Lynn]

Which in and of itself is 1.6 million subs. And in and of itself is a lower 5 figure per month income as well.

[Pat Flynn]

Interesting.

[Kap Lynn]

Not passive.

[Pat Flynn]

No. Yeah, not passive, but. So that's one of my questions, actually. Two questions. So first, you, you would recommend splitting off a shorts channel versus diluting the main channel?

[Kap Lynn]

No, not always. Not always. If it's the same audience. Exactly. It should be actually on the same channel. I, I broke it off for two reasons. Number one, okay, a family who's watching me complete a set in 24 hours for a 45 to 1 hour length video is different than the person who's doom scrolling at night looking at somebody who just wants to see a pack opened in 60 seconds. It's, it's, it's a different audience, even though it's Pokemon. That being said, there is some overlap in general, especially for you podcasters out there. If you have a podcast, there's a video podcast and you have, you know, all of it should be on. On one episode. On, on one. If you take clips from it, for example, it just all helps that channel that that's the best practice from the mouths of YouTube, actually. Okay, so, so that answers that first question. But, but secondly, it's not passive at all. Because I mean, if I were to stop all the Pokemon stuff today, I would still likely see because the videos are presented in a more evergreen fashion. These are stories being told. These are challenges. They're not. Here's the new set that just came out that then this video will mean nothing to you in a month.

[Pat Flynn]

Right.

[Kap Lynn]

Kind of video, which is what most other people were doing. I could stop and it would continue to generate probably five figures a month for the next couple years. If I were to stop now completely.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, I was gonna say because the videos that you released, you know, a couple years ago, they're still racking up views passively, right? To. To keep feeding the beast, keep feeding the algorithm, they gotta come up with new, new content all the time.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, it feels like that. And, and you definitely, as a creator get drawn to that. Especially when you see income coming in, you see views, you see comments there. There is a trap that many creators fall into where they then experience burnout. And thankfully the Pokemon thing for me is still on the side. I have specific days of the week where that's all I'm working on and it's just basically one and a half days per week. Whereas SPI is still my major thing because of the videos and the way that they're filmed. They are evergreen. There is one video that was filmed, for example, in 2022 where I went to Hawaii and I went to a convention and I finished this really difficult set in 48 hours. It brought the community together. There was a little crying at the end. It was super emotional. And that video, I think has 12 or 13 million views and has accounted for over a hundred thousand dollars in ad revenue. Just one video, that's nuts. And it slowly ramped up to that over time. And other videos have done just as well and some videos don't, but you know, we're going to keep casting that bait out there and hopefully catching some big fish.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, that's really cool. Deep Pocket monster. Go check them out. Some of these fun Pokemon card challenges.

[Kap Lynn]

So I have to give it a nine. And the reason is not just because I'm biased toward YouTube, but also the ability for you on YouTube to whether it's on long form video or on short form video, and I've proven it on both. You can create a deep relationship with your audience there. And with that deep relationship with that trust that you build, you can build anything really. You can sell merch like what we're going to start doing soon, or sell a product or do affiliate marketing. I'm the number one affiliate for a binder company out of. Out in the uk and I generate a few thousand dollars per month and they just send me a check every month because I've put more customers in their hands. Right? Affiliate marketing in Pokemon with a binder. It's crazy, but it's all the stuff that I've learned in the past in business and entrepreneurship and all these other endeavors now being put in a New space. So everything you learn, everything you do can stack and move forward into the next thing. And it has proven to be the case here with Pokemon now, which is kind of cool.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. Do you want to do affiliates? Affiliate marketing is number nine.

[Kap Lynn]

Sure. Number nine. Affiliate marketing, I think is a 10, and I think it's a 10. Because number one, the ability for you to find a product that makes sense for your audience, that serves them, and it doesn't have to be your own product. In fact, that's the definition of affiliate marketing. You're promoting or recommending other people's products. If you can find the right product, it's incredible because it can become as if it were your own in the way that you promote it, in the way that you sell it, and even in the revenue that you could generate from it, depending on how well those commissions are, whether it's a physical product or a digital product. You can do this on day one of your content as well. That being said, of course, you don't want to be salesy on day one.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know if I would come out straight out of the gate, like if that's my only play, but.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, right. But I mean, I could argue against that and say, well, Nick, if you found somebody on day one who needed help with something and you had a product that can help them, would you say, you know what? I just started. I have this thing that can help you. But you know what? I don't have a hundred subscribers yet, so I'm not even going to tell you.

[Pat Flynn]

Right, sure, sure.

[Kap Lynn]

Again, authentically sharing these things so that you help people is always going to be the case, whether you're just starting out or. Or not. So the other thing about this is the affiliate marketing you do can lead to incredible partnerships with the companies that you're promoting. I have become not just an affiliate for companies, but I have become advisors for some of these companies like Kit and Circle. I'm now owning a piece of that company. A small percentage, by the way.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, this. This was going to be number 10 on my list.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh, okay. Well, we'll get there in a sec. With affiliate marketing, it's cool too, because if you create, for example, how to content on how to use this product, like I once created a video on how to use descript. That video, which was published four years ago, still continues to generate views because it's a good video on how to use descript. I have one for how to use Kit, how to use Canva, all these Things that then inject an affiliate link at the end. And by the way, you have to be upfront with that. It's FTC regulations. You have to be upfront with the affiliate relationship. There's. But even so, those videos still continue to generate more views and therefore more revenue because they're putting more customers in. And that Descript video, one of them has generated over a hundred thousand dollars in affiliate revenue over the years. I talked about some of the AI stuff in that tool before. AI was like a big thing, isn't it?

[Pat Flynn]

Isn't it such a magical tool? It's, it's super cool.

[Kap Lynn]

It's amazing. I had once been a advisor to lead into number 10, but we'll get into that. I was an advisor for Squadcast, which then got bought out by description. So I also now own shares of Descript, which is kind of cool. But I would give affiliate marketing a 10. It's the easiest to start with. You can start in the beginning and even if nobody sees your content in the beginning, as you grow, people will go back to episode one, they'll go back to your older YouTube videos and see those recommendations that are again, hopefully genuine, that can help people and then you can get a commission for that over time. And like, if you can help people and make sales at the same time, like, that's the most beautiful thing because everybody wins.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. One of my favorite affiliate examples of going like really, really deep on one product is Matt Wolf and his like thrivecart obsession where he started a dedicated, like how to use ThriveCart website, like a whole website. He had a ThriveCart Facebook group, he had a ThriveCart YouTube channel, he had a ThriveCart like newsletter. It was just like going nuts. And I think he was doing ThriveCart, you know, paid ad. It was just like, hey, I found something that I really like. I found something that my audience likes. I'm going all in. And he was close to like a million dollars in lifetime commissions when we recorded.

[Kap Lynn]

That's amazing. The cool thing about that is Matt is better able to sell that product than the company itself because he's a user, he's somebody who has experience with it. It's somebody just like the person making a buying decision. And when you can position yourself as the go to resource for that tool and even in a way a help desk, it just positions you as again, somebody who is knowledgeable about it enough to trust going through that link and going through that recommendation and also somebody who then can get on the radar of the higher UPS at that company to then create those deeper relationships.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. So this leads perfectly into number 10. Affiliate marketing was number nine. Got a 10 out of 10 rating from PAT. Number 10 is advisorships. This, you know, positioning yourself as a, as a really trusted user of the, of the product and then getting, getting a seat at the table here.

[Kap Lynn]

Yes. So this isn't something that's very common, but it is and should be more common because we have any of us creators have some amazing, incredible superpowers that a lot of these companies would want to get behind. It might be connections, it might be knowledge, it might be the ability to break things and see and for, you know, have some foresight on a product, its market. These are all valuable things that companies would love to have. And you could work with a company in a more consultant kind of way, but more as an advisor. There is a lot less work involved, but you can still have just as an impact, a great of an impact. And the cool thing is I am now an advisor for 12 different companies and it feels like in a way that they're like they're kind of my companies, but I don't have to do any work in the companies. I just show up once a month to a meeting in general, sometimes more, sometimes there's some emergencies and I have to fly out to certain things to. But in general it's very low lift for being able to make the right introductions to be able to comment on certain things and new features and kind of provide honest feedback and also give ideas. This is the kind of responsibility.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. And this is on top of your affiliate relationships?

[Kap Lynn]

On top of the affiliate relationship, yeah. That, that's like, that's the cool part. And so the sort of meta hack here is like, okay, I can have some influence on where the company goes. I can offer like some feature ideas that then make it easier for me as the affiliate to sell. And so I'm making more money that way as well, which is kind of cool.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, double dip.

[Kap Lynn]

But in general, the money from advisorship doesn't really come in until either the company sells, gets acquired or IPOs. Only in one of those companies do I see like a profit share come in every single quarter. But that's, that's pretty rare. And in general it's like a percent or less of the company. But you have these shares now.

[Pat Flynn]

Okay.

[Kap Lynn]

And these stock options and, or just actual stock and, and you know, sometimes there's liquidation periods where you can sell those off. But in general, for the amount of work, especially if you're at that level and you like your name comes with authority and they can use that.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. In your particular niche for sure.

[Kap Lynn]

Right. It's also just really fun and you get insider looks at things that you wouldn't have otherwise. And a few times the companies I've worked with have paid off big. I mean, I'm talking six figure checks, kind of just like, hey guys, we sold the company. Cool. You'll see a check in the mail in a few weeks. Boom. It's like, oh my gosh.

[Pat Flynn]

And very, very little downside. It sounds like aside from, you know, attending the board meetings or like, you know, occasionally providing your guidance and feedback.

[Kap Lynn]

Right, right. That being said, I don't want people to think that this is easy. It does require a lot of mental lift in situations where you want to actually show up and serve. I mean, you are now part owner of a company, if you will. You need to step up and provide with what you can provide. There have been many cases I've seen where people are advisors just because they're top affiliates and they're, they, they just don't do anything. And it like the companies regret, regret doing that. And you don't want to be a regret for a company. So yeah, that, that's advisorship and, and a fun, neat way to offer more value to a company and even get something big in return one day, potentially.

[Pat Flynn]

All right, what's your rating for that one?

[Kap Lynn]

That one would be a seven.

[Pat Flynn]

Very good. We've got more with Pat in just a moment, including his business idea donation for side Hustle show listeners coming up right after this.

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[Pat Flynn]

I need to make my next hire.

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[Pat Flynn]

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[Pat Flynn]

All right, we're back with Pat Flynn from Smart Passive Income and the author of the new book Lean Learning. We're about to do some Lean Learning ourselves as we move on to round two, which is Donate a Business Idea this is something that you might start if you had more hours in the day or an opportunity you think listeners could run with.

[Kap Lynn]

Yes. And I am not the inventor of this idea, but I've heard about it and I was like if I didn't have all my other things going on, I would totally do this if I was in a cash crunch for sure. So the idea is related to garbage cans. So those of us who are homeowners, or even if you're renting, you know how once a week you have to remember to take the garbage from the side of your house and put it on the front so that the trash guys can get it. Or else you have a full trash can.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. Another week is building up. Yeah.

[Kap Lynn]

It's such a pain, right? It's such a pain to forget that there's a company that I saw and I can't remember where. It literally was just a passing instagram I saw, and I was like, this is a great idea. It is to provide a service to a homeowner or people renting that you will come on trash day and take the trash cans from the side of their house to the front, and you will be there on time to remember to do that every single time in time. And you will turn, bring the trash cans back later that day. So a homeowner does no longer needs to do that. And I think I remember seeing that people were charging like 50 to $100 a month to do this. And imagine just doing this just for your block alone.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, yeah. Even if it's like a little tiny fraction of your subdivision, because there's like, okay, if it takes 60 seconds to do per house, then times a hundred houses, like, there's. There's some time involved. But, yeah, I imagine once people get used to paying for it, it could be a pretty sticky recurring service.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah. And once a week, just your workday is Tuesday, because that's trash day. Right. And the other days of the week, maybe one of the days you are marketing and expanding your team and you're trying to go out and. And take over the whole world in this way. I don't know. Or it's just limited to the amount of money you need so that you can eat comfortably or whatever it might be. I'll add another one related to trash, because this actually happened here in my neighborhood, and I haven't seen anything since. On trash day, I got a knock on the door once, and it was a little kid who said, hey, mister, I saw that your trash can was broken because, you know, the trash people, like, go violent with our trash bins. And there was a crack in it, and he said, For $20, I can replace it for you. And I was like, that's it? Like, you'll replace it for me? He's like, yeah. So I literally gave him 20 bucks. He's like, okay, I'll ring the doorbell in 15 minutes and show you.

[Pat Flynn]

Okay.

[Kap Lynn]

And in 15 minutes, he. It was done. I don't know where he got him, but he went to the trash factory place. Again, I'm not in that world.

[Pat Flynn]

Just borrowed it from your neighbor. He's just going to go domino effect, like, down the street.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's funny. No, but I mean, they were all brand new, and he got. He got a stack of them, I'm sure for a good price, and was able to replace them around the neighborhood. And I like, it's. It's. I still have One on. On my black trash bin. And I was like, man, this is a great idea. And. And something that you could do with your kids or something that like a young teenager could do. I love those ideas because at least it's getting you started. It's not passive, but I mean, one day a week for, you know, imagine how many houses it's. Instead of a paper route, I'm going to take trash out for people and. And make some dollars every month.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. When you opened with garbage can, I thought you were going to say garbage can cleaning service, which has become a thing. And there's been, you know, trucks that will do it. There's obviously the lower overhead way to do it with just a, you know, pressure washer or a hose too. But yeah, lots of people doing that too. And we even came across a guy who, like, started his own garbage route. Like, people were complaining that the garbage service was inconsistent or they were leaving trash everywhere.

[Kap Lynn]

Oh, wow.

[Pat Flynn]

I could do a better job. So he goes and buys this used garbage truck and, like, starts signing up. I think he, like, pre sold his neighborhood. So he's like, didn't have as big of a upfront risk in buying this used garbage truck, but, you know, trash, you know, figure out this, like, recurring problem. Right. Solve a recurring problem. Here's a recipe for some recurring revenue.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah. Amen.

[Pat Flynn]

All right, round three is what I call the triple threat. First aspect of this is a marketing tactic that's working right now. Could be in any. Any one of these businesses that we talked about.

[Kap Lynn]

Yes. So short form video in a series is working really well. I'm actually doing this right now to help promote my book, Lean Learning. 21 days leading up to the launch, I started a mini video series. Series are great. This is where I was not performing well before because I was just kind of randomly creating videos every single day. What random idea do I have? Okay, I'll try to create it. And I wasn't doing anything on TikTok, rather a series like opening a pack a day and seeing what I get, which is my short pocket monster series. Or a golfer, Brian DeChambeau, who for every day he shot a golf ball over his house to try to make a hole in one in his backyard. And whatever day it was was the number of balls he got. And I think it was like, on day 37, he. He hit it.

[Pat Flynn]

Wow.

[Kap Lynn]

There's a guy sailing with Phoenix right now. He's world famous because he quit his job working at a tire company to buy a sail belt. He liquidated his 401k, bought a sailboat and is sailing from Oregon to Hawaii. He's on day 19.

[Pat Flynn]

Oh, yes, yes. I saw this. Yeah. Yeah.

[Kap Lynn]

And it's like the whole world is like, okay, I'm gonna check in, make sure he's safe every day and his day 20s tomorrow, day 21. A series helps a person have an expectation of what they're subscribing for with some mystery behind it. What's going to happen tomorrow? Right. That's a big secret. And so for me, leading up to the launch of Lean Learning, I'm creating videos, and I'm still. Still experimenting. I'm not getting millions of views, like on my Pokemon channel, but I am seeing some views. One of the videos hit 90,000 views of what it's like to be an author and lead into my launch on June 3rd. And I'll continue that all the way through a week after to see if we hit the New York Times list. That'll be like, the big reveal. And whether I hit it or not, I may or may hit it. There is a chance. But if I hit it or not, it's still going to be a momentous moment to kind of teach a lesson. And if we hit it, great, we'll celebrate. If not, it'll be a good lesson for everybody. On, well, this isn't the most important thing. So creating a video series again daily and. And getting those reps in, because I know daily sounds scary. I mean, John Lee Dumas did that with podcasting, and I was like, I don't have no idea how you're doing that for the Pokemon channel. I started in just doing it for 60 days, and I said, I'm just going to try it for 60 days, see what happens. By day 30, I was seeing only. Still a few hundred views per video, but. But my editing time went from 45 minutes per video to about 12. I was able to completely master editing because I was doing it every day. I was getting the reps in. I was also collecting data every day, 30 pieces of data on what was working and what wasn't. And by day 35, one video hit 750,000 views on that Pokemon Shorts channel. And then everything just kind of blew up and exploded from there to a point now where I'm getting invited to Detroit Lions games to open Pokemon cards on their field, or UFC fights from UFC fighters who now are following my Pokemon channel. Like, it's. It's. It's insane. But it happened because I showed up daily.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, the creative constraint of forcing yourself to do it every day versus, like, I just. Whenever I come up with an idea, I'll put out another short.

[Kap Lynn]

Right? Exactly. It's almost like I'm just gonna create it and it's gonna be messy. And maybe, you know, I'll do another small one tomorrow and another small one tomorrow. And sometimes these things blow up when you give it that much of a chance. So short form video leading into something has been working really well, or at least even just building an audience. There was a guy, another guy named Tim Nacki who blew up because every day he was betting on online blackjack, which is not a great way to make passive income, by the way. I don't condone that.

[Pat Flynn]

Do you know Colin from a blackjack apprenticeship? He called it a, a hard way to make easy money.

[Kap Lynn]

I love that. I mean, I like blackjack and it's fun. But he was betting 10 cents per follower every day.

[Pat Flynn]

Okay, so there's a, a natural viral loop here.

[Kap Lynn]

Correct. And he got. Got up to a million followers. So he, he bet at one point a hundred thousand dollars per per roll or whatever. You know, that's, that was insane. And he was able to actually generate a million dollars in profit. Again, that's not. He got lucky because it would have been very easy to just lose out on that.

[Pat Flynn]

From what I've learned is like, even if you're counting cards perfectly, it only flips the odds to like maybe 51, 49. Like, it's not a huge advantage.

[Kap Lynn]

Right. And you, you would need to go through a lot of money in order for that to seem favorable over time. Yeah. Because the less there are, the less likely that percentage is going to hold truth. So again, the big idea being what's going to happen tomorrow? What's going to happen tomorrow? Is it going to be the big loss? Is it going to be the big win? I have to, I have to subscribe to figure out. Because people don't subscribe as a thank you for the video. Video they just watched or the podcast they just listened to. That's a big misconception. That's like. That's a light.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, yeah. That's the anticipation of what's coming next.

[Kap Lynn]

Exactly. And so if you can help them understand what's coming next. Okay, and then tomorrow I'm going to do this, or here's the series and another one's coming. People are more likely to subscribe and then over time build a relationship with you, which you can then can, you know, hopefully do some amazing things with. And with. With great power comes great Responsibility.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah. Short form video in a series. Really cool idea. We had a woman on, Jacqueline Mitchell, who was doing a hundred dollars a day for a hundred day personal challenge like I just gotta get my side hustle butt into gear. And she ended up doing it, posted the video for a hundred days. She made a little over $10,000 over the course of that.

[Kap Lynn]

That's amazing.

[Pat Flynn]

But in the, over the course of the 100 days, of course she gains a following because it's a really compelling storyline and she starts opening up to new income streams that weren't even an option to her at the beginning. Now she's getting brand deals and UGC contracts and Amazon affiliate commission and all sorts of stuff, but just by virtue of putting in, putting in the work. So short form video in a series. That's the marketing tactic that's working right now. Let's go to number two, a new or new to you tool that you're loving right now.

[Kap Lynn]

So I'm loving Poppy and I don't know if you've seen this. I mean there's a ton of AI tools, right? And, and I don't know this one. So this one is interesting because it's almost like a visual dashboard. If you imagine a visual dashboard and chat box within that visual dashboard, well, now I can copy paste a website and then with a line connect that website to this chat box. I can also upload a PDF file and connect a line to the same very chat box. I can upload five of my newsletters and connect those five newsletters in a group to my chat box. I can upload or connect five YouTube videos about a particular topic and put them all in a group and then connect it with a little line to this chat box, this, this question box. And then that question box now is reading into those sources that I just linked to it. Then I can say something like, please help me draft a newsletter in the style of Unstuck, which is my newsletter. It knows the style because it has now five of them connected using the ideas from these five YouTube videos. And I can record a voice audio along with it to kind of explain what I'm trying to get out of it. Hit a button and then it's tied to those sources. It sees my newsletters, just creates it in an instant.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, so you've trained it on here. Here's what a good newsletter looks like. Here's some examples of that.

[Kap Lynn]

Right.

[Pat Flynn]

But now make it, make it about this new topic.

[Kap Lynn]

Exactly. So one thing I'm trying to do to promote lean learning as well, is to create a video essay. I'd never done a video essay before. So in Poppy, I have found all these different video essays about everything from video games to, you know, broken YouTubers to whoever, and I connected them all to this chat window and now I'm like, please give me a proper structure for what makes a. A viral video essay. And based on all that that it's connected to, it is now pulling from actual examples and it's even sourcing them for me so that I can learn as I go. I'm not trying to just like, hey, create a script for me. I want to learn about this. And then. And then work with again AI as a partner, if you will, or creative utility. And Poppy is working really well. So getpoppy. AI, I think is the URL.

[Pat Flynn]

Very cool. We'll link that one up in. In the show notes for this episode. And number three of the Triple Threat is your favorite book from the last 12 months.

[Kap Lynn]

Favorite book, buy your time back by Dan Martell.

[Pat Flynn]

I can't tell you how many people it's like, that's the most popular answer this year. Yeah.

[Kap Lynn]

Have they really? Wow. I'll have to let him know. He's a good friend of mine.

[Pat Flynn]

It's gotta be super impactful.

[Kap Lynn]

It is very impactful. I think it speaks very much in alignment with what I talk about in Lean learning, which isn't wasting your time on learning things that don't matter. Right. It's not about like the big thesis behind lean learning is we have to get away from just in case learning. And we need just in time learning. What is it that we're focusing on now, for example, like building a garbage company. And let me just learn about things related to that. Nothing else matters except this knowing and trusting that when you reach the next phase, that those resources will be there because they're everywhere now. We have access, free access to all of it. But Dan's book is great and he's been very. A mentor from afar, if you will, not just in books, but just as a person with his family and all that he's doing. I mean he's like 50 years is like rock hard bodies, like inspirational in so many different ways. So look up to him and happy to mention him here.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, very cool. Buy back your time. We'll link that up in the show notes as well, along with Pat's new book, Lean Learning. You can grab your copy or learn more [e-mail] you can check Pat out at the smart passive income podcast. Smartpassiveincome.com Big thanks to Pat for sharing his insight. Thank you for being a beacon of positivity and integrity and inspiration for a decade plus.

[Nick Loper]

17 years or something in the online business.

[Kap Lynn]

Yeah, 17 years.

[Pat Flynn]

Yeah, that's just nuts. But really appreciate you and all that you do. Big thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone. You can hit up Sidehustlenation.com deals for all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. Thank you for supporting the advertisers that support the show. Really does make a difference. That is it for me. If you're finding value in the show, the greatest compliment is to share it with a friend. It's as easy as firing off that text message. Hey, you could get a kick out of this. Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time let's go out there and make something happen and I'll catch you in the next edition of the side Hustle show. Hustle on the.