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The Side Hustle Show
720: From $50k in Debt to Mortgage-Free Millionaire and a 3-Day Workweek
00:47:54
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- [00:01]
A
Owning your time, that is a goal I'm pretty sure we all share. And today my goal is to give you some concrete steps you can take to reclaim some of that time. What's up? What's up? Nick Loper here. Welcome to the side Hustle Show. It's the business podcast you can actually apply. And today I'm joined by a good friend of mine who went from $50,000 in debt to mortgage free multimillionaire in a three day work week. His new book is own youn Time 10 Financial Steps to put your family first and escape the corporate grind from marriagekids and money. Com. Andy Hill, welcome to the Side Hustle Show.
- [00:40]
B
Thank you for that nice introduction, Nick. Good to see you, man.
- [00:43]
A
It has been a long time coming. We have known each other probably the last 10 years and what sticks out in my mind, you're one of the first people to introduce me to this interesting branch of, of the fire movement, the financial independence retire early movement, this interesting branch called Coast Fire. And when I first saw this, I'm like, okay, I'm a West coast kid, maybe this is for me. But it has nothing to do with geography, does it?
- [01:07]
B
No, it doesn't have anything to do with. I mean, it'd be kind of nice to like, you know, enjoy both of those things, the coast and the independence. Right? So, yeah, we'll talk about it a little bit. I'm sure you're familiar with financial independence that is essentially saving and investing a certain amount of money where you can essentially live off of a 4% withdrawal rate or a 5% withdrawal rate of that portfolio and not have to work anymore, which is a really cool concept. The problem with that concept, at least that I found in my life, is that that's a whole lot of money to save when you can only flex that frugality muscle so much. This concept meets the fire idea in sort of a halfway where it's like, okay, what can I do to save and invest so much that at a certain point I can stop contributing and let that grow to my goal fire number. But maybe 10 or 20 or 30 years from now. So, for example, my wife and I saved and invested around $500,000 by age 40. And if we just purely left that alone for the next two decades, based on past market growth, including inflation, including any investment fees, that could get us to around $2 million by the time we reach 60 and in our comfortable living expenses, that would be plenty to retire on. So with that realization, that Coast Fire realization that would allow us to do things like, hey, maybe we don't need to work as much. Hey, maybe we don't need to send so much of this to our 401 or our Roth IRA or things like that. Because retirement, that box is checked. So that is coast Fire. And that realization has allowed my wife and I to take on what we both like now is a three day work week, working part time as we're raising our kids.
- [02:52]
A
Yeah, that's really, really cool. And a kind of a different, different frame. Because traditional fire, depending on where you're at, could be really daunting. Like, oh, I only need to save 25 times my annual expenses. Like, easier said than done. In a lot of cases, we get.
- [03:05]
B
To 2 million by 30, right?
- [03:07]
A
Yeah. And so coast fire is kind of the idea of, well, let me front load this retirement savings as much as I can and then let compound interest work in my favor. I can kind of take my foot off the gas in terms of being as aggressive on the savings and investing. It's kind of this combination of, yes, don't rob your future self, but also a little bit of yolo, a little bit of like, hey, I don't have to save all this money. I can enjoy life today knowing that, you know, rule of 72, 7% interest is going to double every decade. And like you said, okay, that 500,000 should double to 2 million over the course of the next two decades. So I think that's a really interesting.
- [03:48]
B
Absolutely. And I think it pairs well with a small business that you enjoy doing that could be plenty for your family to live on, which is a great portion of our conversation. Hopefully we can talk about today.
- [03:59]
A
Yeah. So let's go there next. So you're building this media brand on the side under the marriage, kids and money umbrella, personal finance for the family. And you've done an awesome job building that brand. Podcast, YouTube website. Very. I mean, similar to Side Hustle Nation in that space and kind of scaling back from corporate work. Like, as the investment balance increases, as the side hustle increases now down the other slope, the work hours can decrease. And it sounds like it was maybe not an all or nothing, but it's like, okay, I can slowly kind of build my own escape route here.
- [04:34]
B
My goal was to have some sort of outlet outside of work that made me feel good. It started out as a hobby really, and then I figured out I can make a little bit of money from it. But then the, the passion started to build and I said, well, how can I do this as my full time thing? Maybe Replace that corporate job that I'm not really enjoying, where I have to travel on nights and weekends, and I've got these little kids, and I feel like I'm missing their lives. So how can I transition out of that and then maybe just make the side hustle my thing? For me, it was a combination of validation, just making sure that I could actually make money from this side hustle, not just saying, hey, here's my idea. Let me leap and go for it. Actually getting paid for it and having people give me money. Also, number two was a big pile of FU money. Just saying, hey, I've got money in a bank that's liquid and available. So if I do say goodbye to my job, I have this money set aside that's going to make me feel warm and cozy when things don't feel so warm and cozy.
- [05:33]
A
Did you have a rule of thumb? This was going to be 12 months of expenses. As an entrepreneur, I tend to keep more cash in that emergency fund than a lot of experts would recommend. Oh, you only need three months. Oh, you only need six months. I feel more comfortable with a couple years. You never know what the future holds.
- [05:52]
B
We had saved around $100,000 of money in our FU money. So that was a little bit more than 12 months of expenses for us at the time, where you can say, oh, my gosh, even if I completely mess this up for a whole year, I'll have money to figure it out.
- [06:07]
A
And.
- [06:07]
B
And worst case scenario, I come clawing back and say, hey, can I have my job back? Or I go to a different place, which is not too much different from the position I was in in the first place.
- [06:17]
A
Yeah, you said a couple things. One was, well, it started as a hobby. It started as something fun to do, and I became passionate about it over time, which is something we've heard over. Don't start a business around your passion, but start a business around something you good at. And the passion follows. I experienced the same thing painting houses. Like, you know, it's hard to be passionate about painting houses, but after doing it for a couple summers, you almost can't notice. Oh, look at the up under the eaves. I'm gonna scrape that off. Let me come back and give these guys an estimate. It is really interesting that you say that. And then there's a chapter in Own youn Time where you're talking about, well, as a kid, I loved making videos. I want to be a filmmaker. And now the YouTube channel, Marriage, Kids and Money. YouTube channel closing in on 50,000 subscribers. It's like, it's kind of come full circle. I think that's. It's really interesting because we've had some guests kind of go through that exercise. Well, what did you love doing as a kid? That's probably a hint that that might make an interesting side project.
- [07:15]
B
It is. And I think I suppressed those dreams for a while, Nick, where I'm like, okay, no, it's time to be an adult. Go make money, get that insurance. Like, go get the thing. And then I let the kid back out and he was like, go make those videos again. That's fun. Here's people making money making those videos. Why don't you see what they're doing?
- [07:32]
C
That's where.
- [07:33]
B
Yeah, I became pretty passionate about it.
- [07:35]
A
Yeah. Super fun. So today, the brand is monetized with brand sponsorships, with affiliate marketing, with YouTube revenue, with financial coaching. What came first? Like, talk to me about, like, the early traction and trying to step away from corporate and like, well, I got to build up some extra income stream before I fully comfortable making that leap.
- [07:55]
B
Yeah. The first way that I made money was a surprise. I got approached at a conference and a company said to me, hey, we love your show. We would like to sponsor it. And I said, cool, that's awesome. I didn't even know anything about sponsorships on podcasts or anything like that. And they said, how much do you charge? What are your rates or what's your rate card? And I'm like, I will have to get back to you on that, because I didn't have a rate card and I didn't know what rates were. I didn't know what to charge. Is $10 too little? Is 5,000 too much?
- [08:22]
A
Yeah. You're going to pay me to do this work I was going to do anyways.
- [08:25]
B
Exactly. I was going to do it anyway. That was like an epiphany moment for me. Somebody's going to pay me money to do this and keep talking. Wow. And that was a light bulb moment for me to say, okay, this is how I can make. I've leaned into YouTube a lot more over the past five to seven years, and that has become my main way of creating income. And you mentioned those streams. The main one right now is through affiliate marketing. Secondarily is through sponsorships and then ads, through YouTube, which is the third. And then I connect with people to help them with financial coaching. I have that AFC accreditation to help families with their financial situations.
- [09:04]
A
Let's Talk about the YouTube channel for a little bit. And if there are any particular videos that come to mind that have driven affiliate revenue or that have kind of popped off and some of the strategy.
- [09:15]
B
Behind that, I try to follow an evergreen SEO based video creation strategy. So when there are opportunities for people who are looking for information online and they type in the right words, I want to be the guy that's there to serve them up that information. Around my family finance niche.
- [09:33]
A
Holy crap. A million views on this Tello video from just a year ago.
- [09:38]
B
Absolutely. So there's a story around that I.
- [09:40]
A
Don'T even know what Tello is.
- [09:42]
B
It is a low cost MVNO cell phone provider that my family's been using for past three or four years. I created a review on it maybe three or four years ago. The company liked it so much that said, hey, can we send people to this? And so they're buying ads on my video essentially.
- [10:02]
A
Oh my gosh, that's awesome.
- [10:03]
B
That's why that one is up there. I get revenue from that. But I don't think YouTube gives you as much because it is paid. So I still have made some money from it.
- [10:13]
A
Sure. You're not making the YouTube like AdSense ad revenue, but you're still getting your affiliate cut if people sign up.
- [10:19]
B
Exactly. So that's been a big one for me, interviewing experts in our field and then trying to bring them on to talk about engaging interesting stuff around the topics that we've talked about. Coast fire, growing your net worth, financial independence.
- [10:33]
A
Okay, here's another affiliate example. Like best free budget apps, YNAB review, Rocket Money review. So kind of like review content on YouTube and some of these, you know, are evergreen topics and they look like they're doing really well.
- [10:47]
B
Yeah, those are the big topics. So I like to dive into fintech stuff and to talk about reviews maybe versus content. Pitting this one versus this one. Which one would I suggest? I like the affiliate model because I don't feel beholden to these companies and I could be really honest like my Rocket Money review. I don't want to talk too bad about Rocket Money. It's not like it doesn't end up being like hey, you should definitely get Rocket Money. I still have my affiliate link in there. But I like the affiliate model because you can be honest and if it's a total sponsored video, then I feel like, well, I gotta say all these rosy great things about them. So I try to do pros. There are great things about Rocket Money and then there's also some things that I think that they can improve on.
- [11:27]
A
Yeah, yeah, I know over 60,000 on Monarch Review I'm a fan of Monarch as well.
- [11:32]
B
Yeah, Monarch's great. I've had it for about two or three years now. And as soon as Mint went away, I'm like, oh my gosh, I feel like a death has happened in my life. And Monarch definitely filled that void.
- [11:44]
A
Is there a certain keyword research process that goes into, well, what video am I going to create next? Or is it more just like, look, here's a tool that I've been using. I want to create the video about it.
- [11:55]
B
A little bit of both, Nick. So things that I have used or that I know like or trust within our industry, let me try it, let me use it personally, let me experience it for years or even weeks and then give it a shot. And then keyword research based on that. Like, what are people actually looking for when they're interested in learning more about Monarch or Tello or Rocket money, things like that. And then just trying to provide some content based on that, working on the in depth detail. I think people appreciate with regard to the videos, both the looks of, hey, what's great about it, what's not that great about it and then being honest because I think people know when they watch a video that there's an affiliate. I don't think they're expecting everybody just to create free content online with no objective information. I try to create that transparency note in the beginning, total transparency. Before we go into this thing. I make money on affiliate links. Here's my affiliate link. If you want to use it, great. If you don't, don't worry about it. Here's my, here's my opinion. So they watch the video anyway and then you can make money on ads based on the YouTube content or you can make money on affiliate. I, you know, sometimes get both, which is great.
- [13:02]
A
Are you comfortable sharing like a typical month's YouTube affiliate earnings? Andy's response, plus how his controversial decision to pay off his 3% mortgage early.
- [13:12]
C
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- [14:39]
A
There's got to be a better way.
- [14:41]
C
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- [15:48]
B
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Affiliate earnings right now are between 5 and $7,000. And then YouTube ads is around $2,000. Sponsorships are usually around like 3 to $4,000. So this is, you know, a 10k plus per month venture for me, which is great.
- [16:07]
A
You're, like, so casual about it. Like, those are fantastic numbers.
- [16:11]
B
Thank you. I appreciate it. I mean, it took a long time. Like when I started with that first story of that podcast advertising. I think I made $500 in the first six months. So, you know, so it's definitely a journey. This has been 10 years. I started in 2016, and we're talking in 2026 now. So.
- [16:27]
A
Yeah, that's really cool. I appreciate you sharing. Appreciate that. Transparency.
- [16:31]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [16:32]
A
I need to make more of these, like, evergreen review videos because it's like, they can have a really long shelf life. One of the bits of advice that I was given recently related to this type of content on YouTube was looking at the top two or three videos on these, like, evergreen type of review type of content videos and looking at how they have structured their information. What's their hook? Can I introduce some element of doubt or intrigue or open a loop that maybe they didn't to kind of like, you know, open a little bit of a question. Right. And so maybe the algorithm starts to show this or, you know, it increases the watch time and, you know, you're trying to unseat some of these in the. In the search results for people looking for information on this topic. There was a guy, he was doing a lot of, like, incorporation services. And, well, even Whitney Bonds came on and had this. She was like, oh, I made this video on, like, how to set up an LLC or something, and it was like 300,000 views. And she was like, that one video probably made $100,000 in commissions for this LLC formation service. I was like, dang, I got to figure this out.
- [17:39]
B
That's amazing. Yeah. I think the affiliate is wide open, and I hope people continue to make it an opportunity for growth, because that just lifts all boats, honestly.
- [17:49]
A
Yeah, that's kind of cool. After you hit publish, is it just relying on the algorithm or your existing audience to kind of give it the initial nudge or anything else proactive that you're doing to market these things?
- [18:01]
B
Yeah. I have found, and I learned this from Dennis Trufen, who's a great creator in our industry, that some videos make sense to not publish to your audience, and some videos make sense to publish to your audience. For example, I'll do an interview with, let's say, J.L. collins, who's a really incredible author that talks about financial independence. And I'll know that my audience will love that video right away, and then they'll click on it. So it should be fed up to those folks. That being said, a specific video on Rocket Money versus YNAB is very specific to YouTube search, as opposed to, like, being fed up to my audience. My audience who follows me. What is it? Almost 50,000 might be like, what is this? I don't care about that. Like, but somebody who's specifically searching for that will care about it.
- [18:50]
A
And then this will be somewhat self serving. But it looks like a lot of what would be traditionally audio content for the Marriage, Kids and Money podcast has been repurposed as interview content over here on YouTube. Yes. And you're doing a nice job of packaging this up and, you know, making it appear, but it's still longer form. It's not an eight minute product review. It's still like 20, 30, 40 minutes in some cases.
- [19:14]
B
Yeah. Some of the longer ones I was surprised with. But then I think back to SEO specifically. Like, so one of my top interviews is with JL Collins. Very googleable fella, you know, so people who are looking to learn more about his ideas, are they smart? Is this something I should follow? Would maybe find that interview, you know, Brian Preston over there in the bottom left corner. Again, Money Guy show, Very popular fella. Now if I were to do a long form video with somebody who doesn't have such a big name, those don't always do as well in the search. So that's what at least what I found from an SEO standpoint.
- [19:50]
A
Okay, that's helpful. And a lot of my guests maybe don't have the same level of searchability or notoriety. A lot of my video titles are like how to start a window cleaning business. Because people aren't going to know necessarily the entrepreneur behind it, but they may be searching for that specific topic.
- [20:07]
B
Yeah. But then on the opposite end, I have found with a video like that, if you use numbers, people like to see numbers. So like I went from broke to making $50,000 on my window cleaning business, that that becomes a little bit. Oh, interesting. Tell me more about that.
- [20:21]
A
Okay, now another topic that you cover quite a bit is paying off your mortgage early.
- [20:28]
B
Yeah.
- [20:28]
A
Which if there is a more hot button topic in the world of personal finance, I don't know, I don't know what it is because I don't know. I'll tee that up. Why, Why'd you pay it off early?
- [20:38]
B
My wife and I were looking for more time freedom. We were very tight with our corporate jobs and we had two small kids. My wife wanted to be able to stay at home with our son and our daughter at the time because she was working a full time job and said, this is just too much. By paying off our mortgage, we significantly lowered our expenses and that allowed us to live on my one single income during that time period. So that was a family decision that allowed us to grab back more of our time as opposed to is this the most mathematically designed decision for us to build the most wealth? That being said, if I had to do it all over again, I would suggest that people hit coast fire first, which is checking that box of retirement and saying, hey, my future retirement is all set. I'm going to take care of myself when I'm old and gray and then pay off the. Which could potentially be a low interest mortgage. We paid off a 3% mortgage. And right now I know that sounds like sacrilege in this world of 6 to 7% mortgages if you're getting them today for people holding on to a 2% or 3% mortgage. So I see it as a way to lower your expenses as you get towards a life that feels more comfortable and do that in the latter portion of your financial journey as opposed to something to do right away.
- [21:58]
C
Okay.
- [21:59]
A
Yes. Make sure that your future self is taken care of. Because there's, there's like this lockup of illiquidity and it feels like throwing money into the ether. It's fun to watch the balance go down, but it's also like until you hit zero, it's like it didn't really do anything. The payment is still the same.
- [22:18]
B
Yeah, I can't spend my $600,000 house. We own $600,000 and there's no mortgage on it. And it's really nice to look at my net worth chart, but I can't touch it, I can't use it. And even I'm even thinking now this is probably not something that we're going to even utilize until we're in our maybe 80s and we decide to like downsize or It's a generational wealth gift to my children. With regard to the asset at the moment, it was more around how do we lower our expenses to enjoy our life now so that my wife has the ability to stay at home with our kids and maybe I can follow her in a short order in the next five years, which I did, I moved to part time work and she moved to part time work when our kids went off to school.
- [23:00]
A
Okay, so it's like, how do we reduce our overhead? Well, look, here's one of our biggest expenses and if we can use some of our today cash flow to eliminate that, even if the math, you know, oh, I could probably do better than 3% like putting it over here. But like that doesn't help my monthly nut.
- [23:17]
B
Exactly, exactly. And by paying off our mortgage, our financial independence number became a lot Easier to hit too, let's say. I'm not gonna mess up the specific numbers, but it was between 8 or $10,000, cost of our life. And then time we paid off our mortgage, it was closer to $6,000. Okay. Wow, that's a lot easier to save up for our future retirement needs or even just to live life today. So if we only need to make $6,000 or $7,000, sounds like both you and I could split some part time work and be able to afford our lives.
- [23:49]
A
Yeah, it's one of these things where like, nobody ever really regrets, oh, I wish I hadn't paid off my house. It's kind of this weight off your shoulders kind of a thing. But it is hard for. I hear you, man math analytical person to be like, I know, oh, look, I can jump ahead on the amortization table and like, you know, increase the percentage that's going to principal instead of interest, but it's like, or I can make 8 to 10% over here. It's definitely something that I struggle with. So how do you like reconcile that where it's like, well, maybe I could have taken the half a million dollars that went into the house and tripled it in the market over the last decade.
- [24:27]
B
So the tripled it part is what I am less concerned on. Especially now that we've exceeded a million dollar net worth and moved up from there. I don't think I equate $10 million with Andy being happier. I equate a life of control of my time and my week with Andy being happier. I feel like I could have 10 million, $100 million, but if I have a frenetic life where I'm not enjoying myself, then the net worth means nothing. I would rather move towards a life of peace and prosperity and joy and family connection and being able to be there for my children when it matters than having more money in the bank.
- [25:11]
A
Yeah, tell me about this three day work week. And it sounds great, but there's also a lot of discipline required not to let work expand to the time available.
- [25:23]
B
This has come over time too. I left my corporate job and then I essentially gained those hours working in my new business because I wanted it to be super successful. So I probably started working, you know, 40 to 50 hours doing that when I started, you know, but over time, my goal, my North Star, was to say, okay, I'm trying to be, you know, a hard worker. I'm trying to be a good husband, I'm trying to be a good dad. I'm trying to be There for my aging parents. I want to volunteer in my community. I want to take care of my health. I found that trying to do all of those things all at once, the calendar ran out of time. So I said, okay, well, what can I take away that will still allow me to have these multiple identities and enjoy my life to the fullest? Well, I could still be a worker, because that's important, but I could work less. So my goal from that point forward till today was how can I move from 40 to 50 hours doing my Solopreneur business to 20 to 25 hours? How do I move that way? And so over these five years, I've tried to pursue things that are helping me to make money while I sleep so that I am making up those hours that I'm not working. Like we talked about affiliate marketing, sponsorships, things like that. Evergreen content.
- [26:36]
A
Okay. Versus I'm going to try and fill up my coaching calendar.
- [26:39]
B
Exactly.
- [26:39]
A
To draw a distinction between passive income versus active income.
- [26:43]
B
You got it, man. That's really the way that I'm able to earn a decent income. I don't make as much as I did in my corporate career. Our household income was $180,000 when we stopped doing full time work in 2020. And when I left that year, our income went to like $90,000. So it was like half. It was cut in half. But we were saving and investing a ton, so we had that muscle flexed. That being said, the first couple of years were pretty tough. As I was ramping up my business, I've been able to grow my salary. I pay myself a salary through my business, I've been able to grow that to $100,000 now in year five, six. So. But that came over time, you know, so probably went from $40,000. Paying myself $40,000 to $100,000 five, six years later, totally.
- [27:27]
A
Again, maybe one part therapy session. But how do you combat the. Not even the shiny object, but like the to do list is never done. There's never enough hours in the day. I'm still trying to come to terms with this. You know, 20 years into running a business, it's like there's more stuff that I want to do but like trying to maintain the discipline where like, oh, my dad invited me to go skiing on Friday. So I should probably say yes to that because that's more important than whatever else I need to do. It's hard.
- [27:55]
B
Well, I think the first part is just recognizing isn't that cool that you like what you do that much, that you'd Want to do it all the time. That's awesome. That means you've built something that you like, that you like to tinker with, that you like to grow, which is so cool. But I think the second thing of that is, do you want to have other identities? Do you want to be known personally or internally as somebody else outside of worker? Like, I think that I. I had for a really long time just recognized myself as worker. I would introduce myself. Hi, I'm Andy. I'm a corporate event sales guy. It's like, yeah, cool. What. What else are you, you know? And I've come to appreciate the fact that I love being recognized as a great husband, as a great father, as a son who's there for my aging parents, as a guy who takes care of his health like an athlete. Like, I used to feel like an athlete in high school, and I didn't feel like an athlete for a really long time. I'm like, I want to feel like an athlete again. I want to dedicate five to seven hours of my week to exercising and taking care of my body. I just became interested in adopting these other identities that it became exciting for me to lean into them. Now, as far as the discipline is concerned, I am like, habit tracker, crazy guy with a habit tracker app. I've got the full focus planner. I've got whiteboards, just things that help me to stay focused and then also pushing away distractions. So I've deleted all social media apps from my phone. I have a note in my Asana project management schedule to turn off my email from my phone on Thursday at the end of the day so that I'm not tempted to look at it on Friday, Saturday, Sunday, because I'll do that. It's a habit reflex. Pick up my phone, check my email. But then I get pulled into it, and then I stop. Another big pull that I did this year. As far as distraction is, I loved working at home, but it was a distraction to just creep into my office and start working. So I physically. I rented an office space this year, Nick. And it's a couple blocks from my house, which is great, but it is away. And I took my laptop there. My laptop is here. I can't work at home anymore. It's another little piece because I'm like, if I really say I'm a family guy, really say I'm an athlete or really say I'm a good husband, then, like, do it, you know? So I'm trying to make those boundaries where I have to do it because it is hard and you get distracted.
- [30:14]
A
Yeah, you had a line about building your personal identity around these habits and you have to prove it to yourself. Like, well, what am I going to do to prove that to myself? One day at a time. Really, really powerful stuff. And I'm impressed with what you built and the systematic way in which you did it. And maybe some unconventional ways too. Like, okay, we're going to be frugal, we're going to front load our savings, we're going to pay off the house. Even if the math doesn't necessarily justify it, a lot of people will equate entrepreneurship kind of jumping off the cliff and figuring out how to build your parachute on the way down. And what you've effectively done through the Side Hustle and through lowering the monthly expenses is like, well, what if we made the cliff a lot lower? Like what if we just make kind of a little hop off, a little step down versus like full on skydiving experience? I'm really impressed by that. Again, Own youn Time is the book marriage, kids and money.com we've got more with Andy in just a minute, including his business idea donation for side Hustle show listeners coming up right after this.
- [31:16]
C
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- [33:23]
A
We're back with andy Hill from marriagekidsandmoney.com for round two. This is the business idea donation round where this might be something you would start yourself. If you wanted to work more than three days a week. This would be something that you think listeners could run with. What opportunity do you see out there?
- [33:41]
B
I have discovered this idea through the recent process that I just talked about is moving my office and I came into a blank space here that was just four white walls. And I said, wow, okay, this feels like I'm kind of going back to the corporate world and it feels a little almost like icky. It's like that's what I want. And so I think a cool business idea this could be done virtually, it could be done with AI advancements, is to support people in this process of transforming their blank office space or blank bedroom or whatever and creating a inspirational place to be. So I worked on this with my wife in sort of a roundabout fashion. But I think a cool business idea to could be to formalize this in an app or a website and utilizing something like OpenAI to make that possible. So whether that's answering a question set or feeding information about what you think is cool or other areas that you find inspiration from design in and then feeding that into a website, app or algorithm to help kind of produce a cool environment. And then once that environment is developed, maybe feeding up the laundry list of the individual supplies or stores or partners that can help to create that environment. So for me, I've got a nice back wall here, I have some panels from this company called Woodup, I've got these LED lights, I have some shelves, I have different things that I'VE put behind me to help create a cool stud looking space as opposed to a boring corporate office. So this could be both a paid app or a paid subscription. Or it could be an affiliate play where you're connecting with those individual companies and making commission as you are helping people support their design. So I like it from an office space or a studio kind of perspective because this is what I'm most recently interested in. But it could also be from a bedroom perspective or some room in the house. What do you think?
- [35:56]
A
Yeah. So to clarify, the business is basically an office design service or a studio transformation service. Do you recall what you spent on all the different kind of like accessories to pretty it up?
- [36:12]
B
Yeah, probably spent about $1,000 so far. So if you think about maybe this is going to be in the 500 to $2,000 expense portion, there could be an affiliate play there because you're connecting with brands that can help make this possible, maybe even individuals that could help you make it come together, whether that's painting services. So it could be a product play or a service play as well. And that could lend into some commission based model.
- [36:41]
A
Yeah, this is really well timed because this is something like trying to improve this spare bedroom studio space this year because I like you get this cool lighting in the background. There's definitely room for improvement. I think all I did last year was I got new closet doors behind me. Like that was the thing. But I do want to show you this because I think this will blow your mind. The service side of this could end up being quite a bit bigger than you might be thinking. Because I came across this guy, Kevin Shenda, Kevin Shen on Twitter a couple years ago doing virtual studio design for, for YouTubers and YouTube podcasters and stuff like that. Starting and this is a couple of years ago pricing. I don't know what he is at today. Starting at $8,000, we're going to do this virtual design service and make you have a really cool YouTube background for video creators. And he was like, well, I'm already investing a thousand bucks in kind of the little accessories, you know, to, to make it look cool. He's basically, I'm going to remove the all of the decision points out of this service for you and just buy this stuff. And maybe he's got affiliate stuff on the back end, I don't know. Or maybe like order it for you. But definitely some precedence for something like this. Yeah. And at this time he was selling the studio design course, like lots of different ways to monetize. Right. Like we could do it for you. We could probably even coordinate the contractors to come over and do this, like the high ticket type of thing. Or if you want to do it yourself, like, hey, take the studio design course. So he's got a couple different angles that he's working here.
- [38:14]
B
I like that. Based on me spending the amount that I've spent not only just to rent the space, but to make it nice, I think this could be a high ticket area for people who are looking for a small business side hustle.
- [38:25]
A
Yeah. What's he charging now? Don't even say to ask. He can't afford it.
- [38:30]
B
He must be doing well.
- [38:31]
A
Absolutely. I kind of like that one. And again, it's top of mind with something that I'm trying to step up my video game this year a little bit as well.
- [38:40]
B
Yeah. I've been doing my channel for whatever, five or seven years, and I've been in my basement studio for a really long time. Nothing wrong with it. It's fine. I don't think. I think people are more drawn to your content than they are the background. But I don't know, it was just something where I'm like, okay, get out of the house a little bit. And then if you get an opportunity to make it look nice, then go for it.
- [39:00]
A
Yeah. The level of just production quality across the board has kind of risen. So the barrier to entry, the bar to appear legit, whether or not the content is good or not. I think there's a visual component, a visual hint to it. And I know I definitely think there's probably some demand there. Plus, I saw some stat. I don't know if this is true or not, but it's like, you know, asking recent high school grads, well, what do you want to be when you grow up? You know, a quarter of them say tiktokers and another quarter of them say YouTubers. And so it's like the demand is absolutely there.
- [39:34]
B
Absolutely, absolutely. And yeah, I mean, my son would mirror the same thing. He wants to be a professional runner or a YouTuber. I'm like, okay, buddy, I think you can make more Money doing the YouTube. But, yeah, go for it.
- [39:45]
A
Yes. So a studio design service, home office design service. I think there's definitely something there. And command some premium prices for it as well. And, yeah, maybe there's some smart ways to use AI to make life easier on the labor side. Let's go to round three. We call this the triple threat. The first component here is a marketing tactic that's working for you right now. Could be Related to the book could be related to marriage, kids and money.
- [40:11]
B
I'll have to lean back into utilizing and creating evergreen SEO focused content that is around your specific area of interest or your area of expertise, either to draw people into your service based business or your business where you, where you make money actually connecting with them or as a standalone way where you can earn money through that education or through that business.
- [40:40]
A
Are you bullish on the return of website traffic or are you thinking primarily video here?
- [40:45]
B
I'm not. I feel very sad about what has happened to websites and blogs with the Google AI change. That being said, Pivot is the name of the game with all this stuff, right? So how can you create that in video? How can you do that in social media content? How can you do that in whatever the next thing is that we don't even know about? So it's not to say that creating content and supporting people in an evergreen fashion is going away. It's just I think the form is changing. I did the almost daily TikTok thing for a while. I mean, I don't want this to be my life and that's how I kind of feel about daily content. It's almost like being somebody who provides the daily news, you know, it's like there's always going to be news. So it's a never ending mission. It's hard for me to want to try to create content in that fashion. And if that's the game, then I'm not sure I want to play it.
- [41:36]
A
Yeah, it's challenging. Just you got to recreate the product every day versus building it once and being able to leverage it for quite a while. Let's go to a new or new to you tool that you're loving right now.
- [41:49]
B
I'm going to say Riverside because it is continuing to modify itself in a way that has helped me to create more content. So in the beginning it was just like, hey, this is great ability for me to get high quality video and audio all in one place. But now I go on the back end and they have new tools over and over again. So I've become more and more of a fan. It helps me to get transcripts, it helps me to create short form videos. It helps me to scan different interviews that I've had in the past and find specific keywords that can work for blog posts in the future. They even have some AI tools that will help create thumbnails.
- [42:27]
A
Oh, to pull source material, quotes and stuff.
- [42:30]
B
Yeah. So if I'm like, hey, I want to start this show with A really punchy quote about X. I can go in there and find it. It's almost become a search tool within itself. But for my stuff, it's like my own Google for content. Kudos to Riverside for continuing to reiterate itself and make some changes over the years. I think I had Skype Ecamm for so long and then people have played with Zoom and different ones and I'm just continuing to be happy with Riverside for the value it's providing.
- [42:58]
A
Yeah, I'm with you. We're recording on Riverside right now. I've been using it exclusively for remote recordings for the show for the last 2 ish years, 2 and a half years maybe. And yeah, they keep adding to the product. We're actually trying to get Riverside as a sponsor, so we'll see if that deal comes through. How about your favorite book other than your own from the last 12 months?
- [43:20]
B
I'm going to go off topic from business and personal finance and say outlive. It has been a really great book and it's written by Peter Attia. It's about taking care of your health in the now so that you can live for a long time but also improve how you live for a long time. Not just longevity for years, but longevity for quality. And so with that, I've adopted a lot of the principles for my five to seven hours that I'm leaning into my athlete identity with regard to cardio exercise, with regard to strength training.
- [43:56]
A
Yeah, what were the big shifts for you?
- [43:58]
B
Yeah, for me, I would say for a long time I was a runner. And running is good. I like running. I feel outside, I'm breathing the fresh air. That's great. But I stopped lifting weights probably from when I was at the end of high school to like a year ago. And I love the strength training portion of it because it helps me sleep better. I found that when I do a good workout where I've actually lifted some weights that I just sleep like a rock. And my sleep was affected over the past few years and I was trying to experiment with it being like, what is going on? Why am I waking up in the middle of the night and I can't go back to bed? And so just kind of researching that, learning more, listening to different YouTube channels and, and finding him and different sources. I've just been tinkering and experimenting personally. And one of those pieces is lifting weights. And lifting weights helps me sleep really deeply. And then another piece that I've changed over the last six to nine months is just stopping alcohol altogether. I found that if I would drink late at night that I would wake up sometimes at like one or two in the morning just wide eyed and I could not go to bed for like six hours. And so I'd get tired at like 6am or 7am and go back to bed and then I'm like, oh my God, my day is ruined. My day is completely messed up.
- [45:17]
A
You know, for men of a certain vintage like you and I, we don't bounce back as quick as we did. You know, it's like, it's just the punishment is not worth the crime in a lot of cases these days.
- [45:27]
B
Yeah, man, Maybe it's my 44 showing, but like, yeah, it's just these certain things where I'm like, oh man, I love some sleep and whatever's gonna help me do that better let me keep learning about it. So I would highly recommend that book. Very, very life changing for me.
- [45:42]
A
The couple things that stood out to me from that book was one, you're probably not getting enough protein, which is like now you just walk down the aisles of Costco and everything has jacked up amounts of protein in it, which is like, I don't know if that's necessarily the right solution either, or they.
- [45:58]
B
Just write the label on it real big. Right Protein.
- [46:01]
A
Okay. But yeah, trying to get more of that. And then he had this bit about, well, if you want to be able to pick up your, your grandkid in 20, 30 years, like that's the equivalent of like a, you know, a 60 pound kettlebell squat today given like average rates of muscle decay. It's like, okay, you kind of put it in real terms, oh, you want to be able to lift your bag into the overhead bin. Well, that's, you know, 20 pounds now, so that's probably 50 pounds today, you know, or that's 20 pounds 30 years in the future. And it was kind of interesting from, from that standpoint. And then I did his, oh, you ought to get a DEXA scan, which was really interesting. And you show up in our area. It's like in the back of a van in some empty parking lot. Was kind of sketched, but it was really interesting data to see. And then more to get like a baseline and then do it again in.
- [46:50]
B
Six months and see, that's bone density. Is that what that is?
- [46:52]
A
It was bone density, it was body fat, it was bmi, it was lean mass, it was kind of eye opening and it kind of gives you an estimate of your like resting metabolic rate. Like how many calories should you be consuming on A daily basis. And so for the 40 or 50 bucks or whatever it costs, it was interesting from a data perspective to get a baseline and try and improve it over time.
- [47:16]
B
Oh, I'm going to do that. I love that it's changed the amount of protein I'm eating, the amount of exercise I'm doing. It's definitely helped my sleep. So I think it's a new way of looking at, what does he call it, medicine 2.0 or medicine 3.0. That's the smart way to move.
- [47:30]
A
Yes. All right. That is Outlive by Peter Attia. We'll link that up in the show notes along with Own youn Time, available at Amazon. Wherever books are sold out today, go grab yourself a copy. You've got marriage, kids and money. If you got the podcast, you got the YouTube content, what's next for you? What are you excited about this year, man?
- [47:50]
B
I'm just trying to be honest and live that three day work week and four day weekend that is really my experiment this year. I've been experimenting with it late last year and I love it. So I want to keep experimenting with it. I might find that, hey, add another half day here or you need to work a little bit more in order to make this business grow. And that's fine too. As my kids get a little older, they need me less too in their preteens and teens years. So this identity of present father, which I've worn on my sleeve as a prideful thing, my daughter's like, hey, can you drop me off with my friends and I'll see you in three days?
- [48:30]
A
Yeah, see you later, Dad.
- [48:32]
B
I would say what's up for the future is just the ability to be flexible. This doesn't have to be a rigid thing. If three days works now, then that's cool. If I want to increase it later, that's cool too. So I have that option for flexibility is what my goal is.
- [48:45]
A
Live that four day weekend lifestyle. I love how you put that. Well, Andy, this has been awesome. Appreciate you stopping by. If you are new to the show or if you're a longtime listener, I want to invite you to build your own side Hustle show playlist at Hustle show. How it works is you answer a few short multiple choice questions. You can do it on your phone. Probably take you less than a minute. And then we're going to kickstart your side Hustle journey this year with eight to ten of our greatest hits episodes based on your answers. You go learn what works. You can add those to your device. Tune in, figure it out and go make some more money this year. Again, that is Hustle show for that personalized playlist. Big thanks to Andy for sharing his insight. Thanks to our sponsors for helping make this content free for everyone. Sidehustlenation.com deals is where to go to find all the latest offers from our sponsors in one place. That is it for me. Thank you so much for tuning in. Until next time, let's go out there and make something happen and I'll catch you in the next edition of the side Hustle Show. Hustle on the.