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- [00:00]
Drew Dick
I've told my kids that we'll have a fine relationship when they're adults, as long as they love me unconditionally and agree with all my opinions.
- [00:07]
Sky Jutani
Yeah, that's healthy. Hello, and welcome to the Sky Pod, brought to you by Holy Post Media and Bushwood Country Club. I'm Sky Jutani, and joining me this week is our good friend, Drew Dick. Hey, Drew.
- [00:33]
Drew Dick
Hey, Sky. Good to be back.
- [00:35]
Sky Jutani
You're here for a Drew's News episode where we cover the Internet with all kinds of issues and stories that you have found that you think we need to be talking about. And this is kind of a little glimpse into our weekly free Holy Post Media newsletter, which we call Drew's News. The Drew's Newsletter that you can sign up for free. Get it every week in your inbox where Drew selects stories from around the Internet, gives some commentary on them, makes you aware of them, links to other stuff that we are producing here at Holy Post Media. And. And this is kind of an audio version of that where we get to talk about it together.
- [01:05]
Drew Dick
Go a little deeper.
- [01:06]
Sky Jutani
Go a little deeper. Okay, Drew, what did you bring us from your journeys around the interwebs? What are we talking about today?
- [01:20]
Drew Dick
I love that it makes me sound like a world traveler journeying around the Internet when you're just sitting at home pathetically scrolling on your phone, but yes. Okay, the first one. First one's a fun one. Sky, I think you like this, and I know you've probably seen it, but the aliens have landed. First of all, I should say, and what I mean by that is the alien files, are they government undocumented? Well, if they are, you know what we'll do with them. Yeah, the government did this big. I haven't looked through it in all honesty, but they did a big dump of these formerly secretive files on UFOs.
- [01:57]
Sky Jutani
Big dump is the right term because there's just nothing of value there.
- [02:00]
Drew Dick
Okay. It's a nothing burger.
- [02:01]
Sky Jutani
I think it's a nothing burger. Although the word is that this is supposed to be the first of multiple caches of documents that they're going to be releasing in the coming weeks. And they're. The argument from the conspiracists online is this is a slow burn, and they're releasing the kind of not great, not super interesting stuff so they can build up to the bigger things. But, yeah, I don't know.
- [02:23]
Drew Dick
You got to know how to do this. You don't want to release the juicy stuff up front.
- [02:26]
Sky Jutani
I.
- [02:27]
Drew Dick
There's.
- [02:27]
Sky Jutani
So this has gotten so Weird. And I'm increasingly annoyed with all the online stuff and all the YouTubers and everybody because there's a lot of money that folks are making off of this now. And it just, it's getting gross to me and I'm getting more and more skeptical. I mean, there's some stories that I find really compelling, like the Navy pilots back in 2004. It's like some of those stories, like, wow, that's crazy stuff. And we've had confirmation from people like Barack Obama and others that there are certainly UAP in the atmosphere that the military has been tracking for a long time. We can't explain, but a lot of the other stuff that's out there and there's people making lots of documentaries and
- [03:06]
Drew Dick
YouTube clicks and all comes down to some grainy footage of a dog movie.
- [03:10]
Sky Jutani
I think there's a lot of opportunists out there that are really making a lot of money off of this phenomenon. And so I'm increasingly skeptical of a lot of this garbage. But anyway, sorry, go on with the story.
- [03:22]
Drew Dick
No, add me to the mix because here I am talking about it. But that's okay. So yeah, there's. The government's releasing these files, but that's actually not the story I'm talking about exactly. There's an even more bizarre story. Before the disclosures, apparently intelligent officials met with a group of Pentecostal like pastors slash youtubers.
- [03:43]
Sky Jutani
Pentecostal like pastors?
- [03:45]
Drew Dick
Yeah, I mean, and I don't know if they're actually part of the Pentecostal denomination. And I don't. Yeah, I love my Pentecostal brothers and sisters, but they were like people that had prophetic words and, you know, a little different. A little different. Anyway, so. And YouTubers and apparently the government or someone from the government or some people from the government met with them and warned them that this was coming. First of all, was before the release of these files and warned them that the revelations could cause some Christians to question their faith. So pastor and YouTuber Larry Ragland released a video on YouTube about the meeting. And he also. This is where it got a little weird. He reported that during this meeting, a very well known congressman from Missouri, Missouri called into the meeting and warned pastors. He said, they are preparing to tell us these aliens were the ones that seeded us here, that there is no God and Jesus was invented by them, the Bible was invented by them. And understandably the clip goes viral. Then Republican Representative Eric Burleson of Missouri admitted that he was the one in the meeting. But he said he didn't really say that. Then the pastor apologized, confessed that maybe he had conflated his own memory of the meeting with what the congressman said anyway. And it was so beautiful because it led to this amazing headline in Newsweek that a Congressman accepts Apology over Pastors Alien Inventing Jesus Comments. We live in interesting times.
- [05:16]
Sky Jutani
I actually think this story is a pretty good snapshot at the ridiculous. Ridiculousness of what's going on right now. Okay. On one hand, there is this very legitimate phenomenon of UAP unidentified Aerial phenomenon that the Pentagon military has been tracking for a long time and that legitimate officials have come out, including, like I said, former President Obama and others, verified this is true. We don't know what these things are. And, yeah, weird. Okay, so that's. Let's put that over to the side of that student. On the other side, you then have this whole ecosystem of people looking to build an audience who are trying to make outrageous claims of what's going on. And it takes a grain of truth and then inflates it to get all kinds of clicks. So, yes, apparently there was some kind of conference call with quote, unquote, pastors. I don't even know if some of them have congregations. Some, I think just.
- [06:14]
Drew Dick
You're just jealous you weren't invited.
- [06:15]
Sky Jutani
No, some just have YouTube audiences and they did talk about the UAP alien thing. And yes, this congressman was invited on, but he didn't say any of the things that this pastor claims he said. It makes me think, well, did that pastor say this stuff? Because he knew it would get a lot of clicks, it would get a lot of views when they start talking about it. Because that seems to be the underlying the truth is out there. Kind of the X Files thing is like, no, I don't think everyone involved in this is really just objectively interested in the truth. They're interested in and getting eyeballs and a lot of attention. Let me read something from this article which I think is interesting. One of the pastors on this call, Ragland, I don't know his first name is, said that pastors have been invited, this is a quote, to come to a private meeting with a group of men who were connected to the intelligence world, who were believers, but still very high security clearance. Connected to the intelligence world. That's like.
- [07:11]
Drew Dick
Right. What does that mean?
- [07:12]
Sky Jutani
Exactly? That is so loosey goosey. Like, if any of these people are connected to any intelligence intelligence, I'll be happy. But I don't know what it means to be connected to the intelligence world. And then Perry here's the thing Trump's
- [07:25]
Drew Dick
administration is known for kind of these connections to. How do I say this gently? Different sorts of religious leaders and pastors.
- [07:34]
Sky Jutani
That's the thing that. The other thing that caught my attention, I've read a number of these stories about this whole phenomenon, this claim that there was this meeting of pastors. When you look at the names that are listed there, they're not even the people who are kind of in Trump's circle of weird pastors. These are fringe people. Another example, Tennessee evangelist Perry Stone. All right, I don't know Perry Stone. I have no idea who this person is. But when you identify yourself as an evangelist, what I hear is guy who wants to be a Christian leader that can't even find enough kooks to call him a pastor and give him a congregation. Right. That's my negative assumption, which I could be completely wrong about. I admit that up front. He said on April 27 in a YouTube video, there's his congregation, the YouTube video, that he had been contacted by an unnamed friend. Okay. Regarding the meeting, quote, I'm not going to go into great detail, but there were a large number of pastors that had been invited to go to a certain state to hear some men in the United States government and others share with them a concern that they had, like, how much more vague can you get unnamed friend, large number of pastors to an uncertain state to hear some US like, come on, you got it.
- [08:45]
Drew Dick
But it just adds to the mystique.
- [08:46]
Sky Jutani
Exactly. And after a while, you're like, although
- [08:48]
Drew Dick
I think there was a meeting, but. Yeah, who are these?
- [08:51]
Sky Jutani
Well, no, but here's what it sounds like to me. It sounds to me like a bunch of Christians who are. Who are trying to build online followings decided to have a meeting to talk about UAP alien, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And somehow they got a US Congressman to call in. And what he ends up saying on this call is nothing that is newsworthy. But then they took that. We had this meeting, and we had someone from the US Government, a congressman, call in. They took that as a enough language of legitimacy to then go back to their YouTube channels and their social media followings and go, oh, we had this media and this. And they built a ton of audience. They got lots of follows and likes. They probably made some money off of their. You know, it's trending and there's nothing. It's a huge nothing burger. And it's also happening in the same week that the government, the Pentagon, drops this cache of nonsense about fuzzy images again. And so people who followed what I've said about this for a while, I'm deeply intrigued by this whole issue, and I do think it's fascinating because I think there are people that have true, legitimate standing, like Navy pilots and others that I find credible. But when this kind of stuff goes on and you have these kinds of charlatans, and it just discredits the entire conversation again, and I just think it gets us nowhere. So, yeah, and now that Trump. Trump himself is saying that he's ordered the release of all this stuff, and you go, okay, if there is one person, one administration that you don't want to be the one doing disclosure, it's the administration that's known for lying more than any administration in human history that has more reason to distract you.
- [10:35]
Drew Dick
Yeah, that's right.
- [10:36]
Sky Jutani
From Epstein, from the war in Iran, from skyrocketing prices, from the economy. Like, they will do anything to distract people. So it's just sad to me that we have so little trust in our officials that if there were something that were worthy of disclosure, I think a whole bunch of people would be like, it's just AI. It's ridiculous. It's distraction. No one would believe it.
- [10:59]
Drew Dick
Yeah. You know what, it's interesting, though. The. That quote about that he put in the mouth of the congressman, that wasn't really a thing, but saying that it would discredit the Bible, that it is. Is that his own fears? Is that just him creating some sensational language? I will say this, though. Okay? So if aliens turned out to be real, right? Like, there was, like, irrefutable evidence. And I agree with you. There are certain things that are very hard to explain, but nothing definitive as far as, oh, these are little green men. I'll be honest. It would rock my world a little. Okay. Like, I mean, my theological world, like, a lot of Christians are like, ah, that'd be no big deal. I'd just start baptizing the ET but let's face it, like, it would present certain epistemic or theological questions, right? Because the Bible portrays humanity as the pinnacle of God's creation or the imago dei, and suddenly there are these other perhaps more intelligent creatures out there, especially if they're, you know, flying out here. Do they have a redemption plan? It would represent something of a crisis. I'm not saying it would invalidate everything in the Bible, but it would be like, wow, this is a paradigm shift.
- [12:09]
Sky Jutani
I agree with you. I think we talked about this somewhere. Russell Moore wrote a piece in CT about this. If we were able to discover that there truly were extraterrestrial intelligent life. His argument is it wouldn't do any. It wouldn't affect Christian theology in any way. I disagree. I think it would, like you, it would raise a lot of questions. I don't think it would be completely debilitating to Christian theology, but it would pose a challenge. I think the more interesting challenge is not that there's. I mean, strictly speaking, as orthodox Christians, we do believe that there is non human intelligent life.
- [12:47]
Drew Dick
Right.
- [12:48]
Sky Jutani
God, it's an alien in other dimensions. Right. So that alone is not the strange part. I think what would be really altering is if. Not only if there was extraterrestrial life, but if there were evidence that that extraterrestrial life had been interacting with humans throughout human history, and that would change our view of our own history and past and origins and religions and things like that. I think that would be weird. Here's the part, though, from going back to your story. That pastor who made this claim, he said that, you know, he was wrong in attributing those ideas to what this congressman said. And the pastor said this quote. In that moment, I began to state things that I have always said. That is my opinion. That's all it is. It's my opinion that when this disclosure comes out, it will be spun that the aliens have always been here and they have seeded us and that they created the first religion and all that. So what the pastor is basically saying is he's had this assumption, this opinion for a long time, but rather than own it himself, he put these words in the mouth of the congressman, which, again, shows me you're not being careful. You're not being credible. You're spinning this to be as sensational as possible to get views and clicks and attention. That's just bad form. It's terrible.
- [14:08]
Drew Dick
No, an ultimate example of projecting. You got these fears or thoughts, and you project them onto someone who has more credibility. So, yeah, no, I. But I do understand those kind of fears that he has, that if there were irrefutable evidence of aliens, oh, man. How does that affect my faith and my theology and how I view the world and the universe?
- [14:32]
Sky Jutani
Yeah, I do tend to agree. Barack Obama came out recently and said something like, if we had aliens, spacecraft and alien bodies and all stuff, he's like, somebody over the last 70, 80 years would have taken a selfie and posted it and been like, the government's not great at keeping secrets.
- [14:52]
Drew Dick
Especially Independence Day.
- [14:54]
Sky Jutani
Well, yeah. I mean, so that, I think, is a mark on the side of there's probably less here than people think. And then these kinds of people who are making all kinds of money, attention, I think, is another mark on that side. On the flip side, you do have credible people, very credible people saying, no, there's. There's something weird happening here that we need to investigate. So somehow you got to hold all that intention. And I don't know what the outcome of all this is going to be, but I will say this much. I think the universe is way weirder than modernity has been, has taught us to think it is. And we're seeing that in some of the strange new developments in physics and cosmology. And there's. We still don't understand consciousness. I think there's a lot of mystery and weirdness to this created order. And this is just another piece of that weirdness. So the. The Charles Taylor talked about the disenchantment of the world that modernity brought along. I think the enchantment is breaking through again, both for scientists and for all of us, that there's a lot more going on. And we've been in denial about that for a long time. And I think this UAP phenomenon is part of that.
- [16:01]
Drew Dick
No, you're so right. Because. And like, I think of, you know, I'm in publishing, so I think of all the books that we. That the Christian world produced for, like, 30 years about why Christianity is true, why the supernatural is real, and all that stuff. And a lot of people are like, yeah, of course it is. So what? Right? And so it's. Yeah, and the questions have totally shifted because there's been a huge resurgence of belief in the supernatural now. It's often wacky stuff. Right. But maybe some of that is happening as people discover. Yeah, the universe is a little weirder than we used to think. Okay, well, you know what? Next time we'll. When they drop another batch of alien files, maybe we'll have another Drew's News.
- [16:39]
Sky Jutani
I don't think this is the last time we're going to be talking about it.
- [16:41]
Drew Dick
That's right. Awesome. Okay, moving on. This is a more important story. This is really serious. Hulu is launching, apparently a Christian college dating show called and this is perfect. Ring by Spring.
- [16:59]
Sky Jutani
No, no, no, no.
- [17:00]
Drew Dick
You're huge.
- [17:01]
Sky Jutani
It's called Ring by Spring Break.
- [17:04]
Drew Dick
Oh, no. Yes, that's right. Okay, so, yeah, this is the twist, right? The Ring by Spring Break. Because, okay, for those of you who didn't have the joys of growing up in the subculture of evangelicalism like I did, Ring by Spring is Something that, like in Christian colleges, Bible schools, people would say to reference the pressure that a lot of people felt to get married or at least get engaged by your graduation. Right. That's the ring by spring. But in this show, they're going to drop single Christian college students into a steamy spring break in Cabo where finding the one isn't a dream, it's a deadline. As faith battles temptations in paradise. Will they leave engaged or graduate alone? I hate this. Because that's not the Christian college experience.
- [17:48]
Sky Jutani
Yeah, this should have been. This should have been a short. No, no, no. This should have been a short term missions trip to Mexico over spring break. That would have been the full.
- [17:59]
Drew Dick
Can you convert the locals and seal the deal.
- [18:02]
Sky Jutani
Right. They should be building a church somewhere and, you know, having the engage with the opposite sex.
- [18:08]
Drew Dick
Tension of the Christian college dating experience is that you're on some campus where there's lifestyle covenants where you can't pair off. You maybe can't even hold hands. And so you have to navigate all those challenges. They're going to drop them on a steamy island somewhere. Come on.
- [18:25]
Sky Jutani
But, you know, okay, but you know, part of the reason they're doing that is because they want to deliberately put these young people in a setting where they're going to face temptation.
- [18:35]
Drew Dick
There you go.
- [18:36]
Sky Jutani
And then they can play up the tension between, you know, sexual desire and the Christian purity culture that they're bound by. And that's going to be part of the whole conceit of the show.
- [18:48]
Drew Dick
Yeah, I gotta admit, it's. It's good tv.
- [18:50]
Sky Jutani
They're all walking around in bikinis and swim trunks and, you know, showing off their abs and all that. So that's what's going to. That's it.
- [18:58]
Drew Dick
It's going to be so interesting and important to see what Christian college or colleges that they draw from. Right. Because it can be. I mean, you know, they run the gamut. It's like they're ones that are a little. Very similar maybe to a secular college and other ones that are very strict.
- [19:15]
Sky Jutani
You know, the full description you mentioned part of it, Ring by spring break drops single Christian college students into a steamy spring break in Cabo where finding the one isn't a dream, it's a deadline. The next part says, as faith battles temptations in paradise, will they leave engaged or graduate alone? Like it is. Really? I'm fascinated by this. I never watch these dating shows. I know other people are. I'm not the demographic they're after and all this, but I'M partly just curious how they depict the conservative Christian subculture in these settings. And here's the other thing that I hear this from my kids who've watched some of these kinds of shows. It's become pretty obvious whether it's the Bachelor and all the different permutations of that show, that these shows may have started way back when as programs where people were actually trying to find romance, a marriage, whatever it might be. But it's increasingly become a platform people go to to try to build their celebrity 100%. Right. So that's the other thing I wonder is how many of these college students, Christian college students, are going to go, oh, I'd love to do that. Not because I'm really interested in finding a spouse, but because I just want to be famous and I want to be a celebrity and I want to build my profile. And who knows, coming out of this, I could get other deals. And D, that's what it really feels like now, which is weird. But, Drew, let me ask you this. You went to a Christian college, correct?
- [20:38]
Drew Dick
No, I didn't. Well, I went to seminary.
- [20:41]
Sky Jutani
Yeah, but that's.
- [20:42]
Drew Dick
I went to Portland State University.
- [20:44]
Sky Jutani
Oh, that's definitely not a Christian college. Right, I forgot about that. I did not. I went to a large state university. Also, my wife went to a Christian college. But it feels to me like I can't criticize. I had the ring by spring. Like I got engaged my senior year of college. But it does feel like in the Christian evangelical subculture, especially at Christian colleges, they date in dog years. It's just everything goes faster.
- [21:12]
Drew Dick
Oh, I see.
- [21:13]
Sky Jutani
Right. Like one year of Christian dating is like seven years of non Christian dating.
- [21:18]
Drew Dick
Biblical one year.
- [21:22]
Sky Jutani
So I just, I wonder if this show is going to depict it as like a weird, odd, backwards way of operating. Or will they. Will they? Yep. Or will they give it any level of dignity and honor that there's a different way of thinking about marriage? I don't. Here's. I think what really bothered me when I read this report about Hulu doing this thing is I feel like these shows in general just really trivialize marriage. Oh, sure, right. And one of the things we as Christians should be holding up is marriage is a sacrament. And marriage is. Well, at least from a Catholic point of view. But marriage, whether you think it's a sacrament or not, marriage is a really important God ordained covenant and should be entered into with some sobriety and, and seriousness and sacredness and all that. And when you put it in a context like this, it just trivializes. It. So weird. And basically all they're doing is saying the only thing different about. About Christians when it comes to marriage is they don't want to have sex before they're married. That's it. That's the only difference. It's like, no, that's not the only difference. It's the entire definition, understanding, and purpose of marriage is fundamentally different than from what the consumeristic, secular world says marriage is about. But when you do ring by Spring Break and Cabo and you have all the same trappings of all these other shows, they're just saying these kids aren't going to have sex before marriage. That's the only difference. It's gross to me in the way it trivializes the whole thing. And that's sad to me, not to
- [22:58]
Drew Dick
mention what it does to dating dynamics and relational dynamics when you know that there are millions of people potentially watching this. If this was my kid that was going to Christian college, want to participate in this? I'd be like, absolutely not. No, I can't say that that'll be adults by then, but I would strongly discourage them from doing something like this. Because you're right, it trivializes marriage. Finding a spouse, one of the most important decisions of your life, into a reality. And we all know it's been said many times. But the biggest lie of reality TV is that it has anything to do with reality. Right. It's very produced. It's very. And I am pessimistic about. If they're really wanting to thoughtfully explore the subculture, it's probably Christians as exotic zoo animals and let's go look at these freaks up close and see their customs.
- [23:48]
Sky Jutani
Exactly. I've told all my kids, you're going to have your own lives, you're going to make your own decisions, you're going to have your own careers and vocations and callings, whatever it might be. And as your father, I'm here to bless you and support you and encourage you, and I'm proud of you. Nothing could possibly change that unless any of you became part of a reality TV show, especially one where it's like one of these dating shows, in which case I will consider myself a total failure as a father.
- [24:19]
Drew Dick
Well, now you know what they're going to do if they want to rebel, right?
- [24:21]
Sky Jutani
I know.
- [24:22]
Drew Dick
So I've told my kids that we'll have a fine relationship when they're adults, as long as they love me unconditionally and agree with all my opinions.
- [24:30]
Sky Jutani
Yeah, that's healthy.
- [24:32]
Drew Dick
That's reasonable, isn't it?
- [24:33]
Sky Jutani
I think so.
- [24:34]
Drew Dick
Okay. All right. Well, I think we solved it. You know what? I hate to say it, because I don't think I've ever watched a full episode of any of these reality TV shows. Not because I'm so righteous, but because they bore me. But I'm going to tune into this one. I'm curious. Okay. Speaking of young people, let's go to the next story. There was a NBC News article looking at Gen Z's discomfort with their the time in which they live. And a lot of them apparently want to live in the past.
- [25:09]
Sky Jutani
Yeah, it's really interesting.
- [25:11]
Drew Dick
I want to live in the past, too. Man, the 90s were great. The 80s, the 80s were even better. What do you think? What's going on, Sky? Okay. That seems like a bad sign, though.
- [25:19]
Sky Jutani
I know. Okay, let me ask you this, because we're very close in age. When you were growing up in the 80s and 90s, did you ever have the thought, oh, it would have been so cool to grow up in the 60s or the 50s?
- [25:31]
Drew Dick
Never.
- [25:32]
Sky Jutani
Yeah.
- [25:32]
Drew Dick
Just thanking God that I didn't grow up in the dinosaur era that my parents did.
- [25:37]
Sky Jutani
Yeah, I felt the same way. Like there were things. Like I would watch old movies or appreciate some old music from that era, but I never had the thought, oh, I wish I had grown up back then. I was. And we tended to think about the future optimistically. Right. There was all this thought of, oh, new things are going to emerge. Things are going to get better. And it's so interesting to me. I think where I first really noticed this is when Stranger Things became a really big hit.
- [26:05]
Drew Dick
Oh, yeah, right.
- [26:06]
Sky Jutani
And my kids were at a pretty good age. At least the older ones were at a perfect. Don't worry, this is not the end of the episode. There's actually plenty more. But to listen to the rest, you need to be a Holy Post plus subscriber. So head over to holeypost.com skypod and sign up. For just $5 a month. Not only will you get uninterrupted episodes of the Skypod, which means you'll never have to hear this dumb announcement again, but you'll also get access to everything else at Holy Post plus, including episodes of Getting Schooled by Caitlin Shess, bonus interviews, live streams, the Holy Post Book Club, exclusive merchandise, and a whole bunch more. And you'll get the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing that you're supporting our work of creating smart, pro neighbor Christian content. So head over to holypost.com skypod and subscribe.