Harry Potter and the Chamber of Hot Takes

Summary

The SkyePod – “Harry Potter and the Chamber of Hot Takes (Part 2)”

Release Date: March 26, 2026
Host: Skye Jethani (Intro only)
Guests/Panelists: Mike (Producer), Caitlin Chess, Noah (Caitlin’s fiancé)

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Overview

This lively follow-up to The SkyePod’s previous Harry Potter hot takes episode leans fully into “millennial nerd-dom.” Skye Jethani steps aside, handing the mic to three true Potterheads: Producer Mike, Caitlin Chess, and Noah. Each panelist grew up along with Harry Potter, bringing deep fandom, strong opinions, and some spicy (yet affectionate) criticisms about characters, adaptations, and fan debates within J.K. Rowling’s world. The crew fields listener questions, rewinds through nostalgic memories, and dives into complicated themes like character morality, the portrayal of choice, and underappreciated arcs—all with plenty of friendly roasting and laughter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Establishing Fandom Credentials

[01:46–07:13]

• Mike and Noah’s Potter Roots: Both read the series at roughly Harry’s age during publication, buying new releases day-one.
  • Mike: Read annually every summer, over a dozen reads through the series.
  • Noah: Powered through Book 7 in one-and-a-half days, “cried at the end.”
• Caitlin’s Perspective: Joined later, but equally enthusiastic.
• Favorite Books:
  • Noah: Order of the Phoenix — loved the angst and length for his teen self. "If it’s the longest book and it’s the angstiest, it must be the best." [05:24, Noah]
  • Mike: Half-Blood Prince — highlights the complexity of Harry and Dumbledore’s relationship and backstory, especially Snape’s arc.
  • Caitlin: Goblet of Fire — “the hinge book,” mixing early whimsy with the first real taste of tragedy. "I really did turn to Noah and I was like, oh, this is not a kids’ book anymore." [08:08, Caitlin]

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2. Least Favorite Book & Character

[07:13–10:55]

• Noah: Least favorite book—Prisoner of Azkaban (largely because it was “a little too dark” for him at age 7; the Dementors scared him).
• Caitlin: Emphasizes Peter Pettigrew is the “least favorite character,” both for his betrayal and his disturbing portrayal in the movies. "That was fair. You picked up objectively, like, gross bad guy." [09:02, Caitlin]
• Umbridge: Universally panned. "Her entire character is unsettling." [09:44, Noah]
• Mike: “I don’t have a least favorite book. Maybe the second. But I still really like that one too.” [10:51, Mike]
• Fun Aside: Mike named his childhood dog “Padfoot.” "And I regret that every time I have to introduce that dog to someone because they're pretty millennial. Cringe." [13:35, Caitlin/Mike]

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3. Patronus Personalities

[10:55–12:14]

• Panel agrees: Patronuses would likely be “agreeable dogs” (e.g., golden retriever—"I would love to. My golden retriever." [11:31, Noah]) but welcome listener suggestions.
• Pottermore quizzes: Mentioned with brief disbelief and amusement.

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4. Cringeworthy Fandom Moments

[12:14–13:41]

• Noah: Confesses to a hidden, probably awful “Harry Potter rap” written in middle school. Dressed up as Harry Potter for events (not just randomly!).
• Mike: Named a black dog “Padfoot” after Sirius Black.
• Group notes the “millennial cringe” of such overt nerdy tributes.

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5. Character Debates: Hot Takes and Listener Questions

A. Ginny Weasley: Overlooked or Undercooked?

[14:09–17:36]

• Movie Ginny: Universally panned as “underwritten” and “bad.”
• Book Ginny:
  • Caitlin: "I don’t think she was super fleshed out. I didn’t find her that interesting... I want the hero, main character guy…to not be with someone who’s such a fan of him, and she’s, like, such a fan of him the whole time."
  • Mike and Noah: Defend Book Ginny’s development—by Book 6-7 she's “in charge of the resistance,” “wins Quidditch Cup,” “the most popular girl in school.” Not a pushover.
  • Counterpoint: Caitlin still craves a love interest who challenges Harry.

B. Snape: Hero, Villain, or Something Grayer?

[17:44–22:40]

• Panel consensus: Snape is the best developed and most interesting character—nuanced, complicated, sometimes cruel but not a straightforward “bad guy.”
  • Noah: "I don’t know that it redeems everything he’s done, but I don’t think he treated Harry that bad…It’s a classic, I’m in school and I have a mean teacher." [19:56, Noah]
  • Mike: Emphasizes the value of complex characters in kids’ literature, introducing nuance and moral complexity: "Most people…do good things, they do really bad things. It’s probably a lesson that…we need in our polarized age…" [21:51, Mike]
  • Caitlin: Enjoys the realistic portrayal of someone whose unresolved feelings and bitterness shape their life, but is relieved Rowling doesn’t make him a secret pure hero.

C. Neville Longbottom: Underrated MVP

[22:47–25:40]

• Noah: Recaps the prophecy and how Neville could have been "The Chosen One," but Voldemort's choices gave Harry that role. "The Chosen One narrative…isn’t because there is anything special about Harry…He becomes special because the evil…ends up…creating its own demise." [24:10, Noah]
• Caitlin: The omission of Neville’s full backstory in the movies “changes how the story makes sense…That’s actually like a really substantive [difference].” [25:19, Caitlin]
• Panel praises: Neville’s heroism (killing Nagini), the arc of quiet resilience, and the powerful idea that overlooked characters can be just as important.

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6. Choice & Destiny: The Big Christian and Moral Themes

[25:46–26:56]

• Mike: Points to the theme of choice vs. destiny as “the big theme throughout the entire series.”
  • Quotes Dumbledore: "It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities."
  • Connects to Christian debates on free will and predestination.
  • Highlights how characters’ choices (including redemption, like Harry extending Voldemort mercy) reinforce that it’s never too late to change.
• Noah: Did not realize the pervasiveness of that theme until recent rereads.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Noah: "Order of the Phoenix... understands all my 14-year-old angst." [05:07]
• Mike: "My summer tradition every year was to reread the series from when I was probably in sixth grade through high school into college." [06:50]
• Caitlin: "Goblet of Fire... it's still fun, kid, and also gets really serious towards the end... Oh, this is not a kid's book anymore." [08:08]
• Noah: "Peter Pettigrew transforming from a rat into a person freaked me out... when I was like nine and that happened. Also though, he does betray Harry's parents." [09:02]
• Caitlin: "I want the hero, main character guy…to not be with someone who’s such a fan of him, and she’s…such a fan of him the whole time." [15:47]
• Mike: "Best written character, totally…to introduce a main character who is complicated... [is] probably a lesson that even in our today's age…we need to be reminded..." [21:51]
• Noah: "The Chosen One narrative around Harry isn't actually because there is anything special about him. The evil... ends up creating its own demise... Neville... could have been Harry…" [24:10]

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Important Timestamps

• [01:46] – Mike and Noah prove their childhood Potter fandom
• [05:05–06:14] – Favorite and least favorite books, with deep dives
• [08:08] – Caitlin’s turning-point moment with Goblet of Fire
• [12:14–13:41] – Confessions of cringy Harry Potter fandom moments
• [14:09–17:36] – Debate: Is Ginny Weasley an interesting love interest?
• [17:44–22:40] – Snape’s morality: hero, villain, or complicated?
• [22:47–25:40] – Why Neville Longbottom matters; prophecy and overlooked characters
• [25:46–26:44] – The centrality of choice, mercy, and redemption in the series

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Tone & Style

The episode is marked by wit, warmth, playful self-deprecation, and genuine literary affection. The panel guides listeners through their own childhood nostalgia, sharpens their critiques (but always with love for the source material), and encourages the audience to reflect not just on what makes the Harry Potter universe special, but on the deeper themes that connect it to adulthood and faith.

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End of free episode. (Next portion available for Holy Post Plus subscribers.)

Transcript

[Sky]

Hello and welcome to the Skypod brought to you by Holy Post Media and Nimbus Racing Broom Company. Many of you tuned in for our episode that I did with Caitlin on our Harry Potter hot takes. And in response to that, we saw

[Noah]

a lot of comments.

[Sky]

People kind of went nuts and some of you were annoyed with me because I hadn't read all the Harry Potter books. I'm a little bit older than the generation that really absorbed that whole phenomenon. And you had tons of more questions for Caitlin and demanded a part two, a follow up. So what you want, you will get. Here at Holy Post Media, we've decided to do a second edition of Harry Potter hot takes. But this time I am not going to be a participant because I'm too old. I'm not a millennial. I'm not. What is it called? A true blood Muggle blood. Whatever it is, pure blood. I'm not one of those. So what we decided to do was take some of your questions and other hot takes around Harry Potter, respond to them. But this time you're going to hear from producer Mike, who I found out was actually the same age as Harry Potter when the books came out. So he, like read the books at the same age Harry would have been. He's a huge nerd with this stuff. Caitlyn is back, of course, because she loves Harry Potter. And special additional guest is Noah, Caitlyn's fiance, who's also a huge Harry Potter fan. So in this episode you get three millennials, three huge Harry Potter fans, to go even deeper into nerd dumb with you on the Wizarding World. Here is that episode and we look forward to seeing your comments. I am not promising a part three, but we'll see. Enjoy.

[Noah]

Because I am very Ron coated in that way. I've got the red hair and I'm terrified of spiders.

[Caitlin Chess]

You are terrified of spiders.

[Noah]

I am.

[Mike]

Welcome to Harry Potter Part two, this time with real Harry Potter fans.

[Caitlin Chess]

Everyone is a Harry Potter fan.

[Mike]

Everyone is a Harry Potter fan. We kick sky out of here. No way. And I'm here with Caitlin Chess to talk a little bit more about Harry Potter. And then very special guest, Noah. Hello, Mike. Hello, Caitlin. Noah, I forget, how do you do you know Caitlin? Have you met before?

[Noah]

Well, yeah, well enough. I think we're well acquainted.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Caitlin Chess]

We're gonna sign some legal documents.

[Mike]

Yeah. Wow. Timeshare or something like that time.

[Caitlin Chess]

Lifetime.

[Mike]

Lifetime share.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Well, I'm so excited.

[Noah]

Moving into Godric's Hollow together.

[Mike]

Wow. We're already getting in. We're already getting in no, this is gonna be so good. We were overwhelmed by the response last time to the sky pod on Harry

[Caitlin Chess]

Potter, which we sort of anticipated.

[Mike]

Yeah, but not even. I was still shocked. I mean, 156 comments on that episode.

[Caitlin Chess]

The last time. People had thoughts.

[Mike]

People had thoughts, opinions, strong takes. But there was a general consensus that people wanted me and Noah to come on to talk about it some more, so.

[Noah]

So we thought we'd have you on as well.

[Sky]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Chess]

Oh, how kind of you. Thank you.

[Mike]

I did say right before we recorded, like, no, I don't think we need.

[Noah]

We should call Caitlyn.

[Caitlin Chess]

I'm just sort of third wheeling.

[Mike]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Caitlin Chess]

Real.

[Noah]

Yeah. We had. We have Harry, we have Ron.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

And of course, the lovely Hermione.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Chess]

Thank you. You're welcome.

[Mike]

All right. So, Noah, I think you and I need to prove our fandom a little bit though.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

So when did you first start reading Harry Potter?

[Noah]

I mean, right as they came out. I was. Maybe it was what the first one was in 97. I was like four at that point.

[Mike]

But I mean, were you reading them like. Because no one in America is a genius.

[Noah]

No, no, no, no. But I was reading them. I mean, I remember because it was like a huge phenomenon and I was smack dab in the like perfect time because the first one's what, 260, 309 pages. There we go. I was gonna say someone can correct

[Caitlin Chess]

me, but it didn't get big until later. By the time it got big, you

[Noah]

were probably reading it, I think, around what, like maybe book three. Culturally. And about that time I was probably six. So then. Yeah, I could read them and I blast through the first three and then. Yeah, yeah. And you were.

[Mike]

So I first read them when I was in fifth grade, which would have been 99 or so 2000. I was. However old you are in fifth grade, I don't know.

[Noah]

As old as Harry.

[Mike]

Yeah. So I was about Harry's age and at that time the first three were out and so I read through all of them and then I think the fourth one came out about a year later and bought it the very first day it came out. And that was like my experience then. I'm sure you were the same where like pre order the book, picked it up the day it came out.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

And within 24 hours.

[Noah]

Done.

[Mike]

Done.

[Noah]

It was read. Yeah. I sat on the couch in my parents dining room the day book seven came out and just morning to night read it in probably a day and a half. Yeah, yeah. Cried at the end.

[Mike]

You Know, I know. Oh, like so many of the books I cried with at the end. So true Harry Potter fans here. Not like a latecomer on the bandwagon.

[Caitlin Chess]

Okay.

[Noah]

Not, not completely of her own.

[Mike]

That's true. That's true.

[Noah]

We covered that one. Yeah.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

All right. So that's fun. And yeah, I was like essentially Harry Potter's age. I grew up like basically every time the book came out, I was about what Harry's age was. So that was, that was fun. So then, Noah, favorite book in the series?

[Noah]

Order of the Phoenix.

[Mike]

Okay. Yeah, interesting.

[Noah]

I think it came out in maybe 2004 and I don't think I totally understood it when I read it. But then when I went back and read it in probably middle school, I think I was just like, this is the best book ever. Cause it understands all my 14 year old angst.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

And it's the longest book. And So I think 14 being angsty. Loving this series. I think I was like, if it's the longest book and it's the angstiest, it must be the best. So I think I just. And I've just carried that into adulthood. I don't think I've ever challenged that assumption.

[Mike]

It's funny because I love the book, but it's the, the teenage hormones anginess

[Caitlin Chess]

that you can't do.

[Mike]

It kind of gets on my nerves. That's fair.

[Caitlin Chess]

As an adult, I felt the same way.

[Mike]

It's a little much. I think mine is the Half Blood Prince number six here. Really? Yeah. It's just so good, the Harry Dumbledore relationship. You get more backstory on Snape. I mean, the tragedy at the end of Dumbledore crying. But I think it's just a really well written book. There's mystery throughout all of it. You're trying to figure out what's going on. Yeah, I love it. It's a good one.

[Noah]

That's just so interesting because I also love the Dumbledore scene at the end of the fifth.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

It's like one of my favorite chapters when he's talking to Harry about like, these are my regrets. I wanted to love you and I didn't do it. Well, it's like, I think that's.

[Mike]

Yeah. I mean, just about the Dumbledore scene at the end of every single book.

[Caitlin Chess]

He's always good.

[Mike]

So stinking good. And sad, I think. And sad. We'll talk more about this, but we. So in light of the. The last conversation, I read the first Harry Potter book to Oliver and jay, my almost 8 year old, almost 5 year old. Jay is probably a little too young for it.

[Noah]

He's getting some of it. Yeah, he's getting some of it.

[Mike]

Not paying a lot of attention. Oliver loved it, but I finished it and I was just like, this book is so good. I mean, it's probably been eight years now since I've read it. But my summer tradition every year was to reread the series from when I was probably in sixth grade through high school into college. So I bet, like, especially the first three, I've read well over a dozen times.

[Caitlin Chess]

Wow.

[Mike]

By this time. So, okay, I think we've proven our fandom, Noah. But then a couple other questions. Do you have a least favorite book or character?

[Caitlin Chess]

Oh, both. I think you should say both. Really?

[Noah]

What do you think they are?

[Caitlin Chess]

I don't know.

[Noah]

It's fun. Like, you know, what is it? Couples quiz.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

What is my least favorite book? Well, let me think. You didn't say your favorite book. Which one is your favorite?

[Caitlin Chess]

Maybe I said this in the one we did with sky, but my favorite is the Goblet of Fire, partially. Cause it's like the Hinge book. It's still fun, kid. And also gets really serious towards the end. And I like, I feel this way sometimes watching TV shows where I'm like, I really like when they're still doing the serial kind of thing of like, okay, this episode, there's a problem at the beginning and it's solved by the end. Like once you get into the, like, oh, it's this big overarching story. I enjoy that. But I kind of like the simplicity of just like the first few books. You kind of like, the main problem of that book is resolved in the book. You're not just in the big Voldemort storyline. And I like that with the Goblet of Fire that there's these discreet little challenges they're doing and there's still some of the high school love stuff and it's still cute. Until, I mean, reading that whatever. A few months ago, whenever that was getting to the end and Cedric dying and it like, I really did turn to Noah and I was like, oh, this is not a kid's book anymore. Like, it's so dark. And his dad, like. And then watching the movie and his dad is like, ugh, that's tough.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

I think. Thank you. I think least favorite character, Honestly, not even based off the book. The third movie came out and Peter Pettigrew transforming from a rat into a person freaked me out.

[Caitlin Chess]

I mean, that was fair. You picked up objectively, like, gross bad guy.

[Noah]

Yeah, totally, totally. But so I don't. I think that's why I'm admitting it's not. It's not a, like, well thought through. It's just a visceral response to it and remembering when I was like nine and that happened. Also though he does betray Harry's parents. So, like, not like someone besides Voldemort.

[Caitlin Chess]

He's not that cute. He's not even kind of admirable in like the scale. Scale of what he's doing. He's just evil and gross.

[Noah]

Grayback's evil.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

The werewolf.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Evil. Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah. I mean, if we're just talking like truly like the most evil characters, it's. Umbridge is like Umbridge.

[Caitlin Chess]

There's like a cringe. Like there's just something that like gets in your body with Unsettling.

[Noah]

Her entire character is unsettling.

[Caitlin Chess]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I think she might be my least. My least favorite. Okay, wait.

[Caitlin Chess]

Least favorite book?

[Noah]

Least favorite book? It's like choose. You know, it's not like any of them are awful, but I think least favorite might. It might be Prisoner of Azkaban.

[Caitlin Chess]

Really?

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Well, shocking.

[Noah]

I know. I know.

[Caitlin Chess]

Because if not because Peter Pettigrew's in it.

[Noah]

Yeah. Well, not because I don't enjoy the book. I think reading it. I think it's because when I read it was when I was about 6 years old, 7 years old, and so I think it was just dark enough compared to the first two.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

That the first two are dark, but not as dark for some reason with the dementors and sucking the soul out that I got a little nervous and I think it was. It felt a little too dark for my 8 year old, 7 year old self. So I was like, ooh, is this bad?

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Chess]

Yeah.

[Noah]

And then I liked it anyway, so. Yeah.

[Caitlin Chess]

Yeah.

[Mike]

I don't have a least favorite book.

[Noah]

You're a true fan. That's what you just proved.

[Mike]

I don't know, like my least favorite book. They're all so good. Maybe. Yeah.

[Noah]

That's a fanfic for sure.

[Mike]

Maybe the second. But I still really like that one too, so.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah. All right. What about. What would your patronus be?

[Noah]

What would my patronus be? What do you think? I.

[Mike]

All right. This is not the Newlywed Game. No. I don't know.

[Caitlin Chess]

Oh, I think it would be a

[Noah]

creature that has fur on it. Like an otter or a dog or a cat. We don't.

[Caitlin Chess]

I think you'd be like. I think it would. You would Be. Your patronus would be like a really agreeable dog.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Caitlin Chess]

Like really.

[Noah]

Like a golden retriever.

[Caitlin Chess]

Like a golden retriever. Yeah.

[Noah]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I would love to. My golden retriever.

[Caitlin Chess]

A civic dog. Like our dog. We're gonna get Jack.

[Noah]

There you go. Jack.

[Caitlin Chess]

Jack. Who's your patronus?

[Mike]

I don't think that's how Patronuses work. No, it can be specific dog.

[Caitlin Chess]

Is it just an animal? Is it always animal?

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah. I haven't taken the Pottermore quiz or whatever, so.

[Caitlin Chess]

What?

[Mike]

Yeah. That's a thing?

[Caitlin Chess]

Yeah.

[Noah]

You can take a Patronus quiz and a house quiz.

[Mike]

We can not right now.

[Caitlin Chess]

I'm just looking up what it is.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Chess]

Okay.

[Noah]

Do you know what your patronus is?

[Mike]

I don't know. I've thought about this before and I've never come up with a good answer that I like. Cuz I've also thought about maybe a dog.

[Noah]

Dog.

[Caitlin Chess]

A dog's good.

[Noah]

Yep.

[Mike]

But that feels like kind of a boring answer too. So you could choose. Maybe people in the comments can say what they.

[Noah]

Yeah, what do we think based on this episode.

[Mike]

Exactly. That'd be good. Okay, and then last one. What is the cringiest thing you have done inspired by your Harry Potter fandom?

[Noah]

Oh, I know somewhere deep in the Google Docs of 2006 in middle school, there's a Harry Potter rap that I wrote. I guarantee there's like the worst lyrics ever to no beat at all.

[Mike]

No, some things we. We should still keep off the podcast.

[Noah]

We should still edit out. Yeah, you can edit out.

[Caitlin Chess]

What?

[Noah]

No, I guarantee that's got to be somewhere.

[Caitlin Chess]

I have a. I have a few questions. Did you write raps about lots of things?

[Noah]

No, no, no. Just some things. Yeah.

[Mike]

Not just Harry Potter. Lord of the Rings, maybe Star Wars.

[Noah]

I don't think I. I don't think I. What'd you say?

[Mike]

Star Wars.

[Noah]

Star Wars? No, I don't think so. No. But. But I do think just like. I don't know, I think in. Somewhere in. I remember, like that is a super cringy thing.

[Caitlin Chess]

That's hilarious.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah. Because I dressed up like Harry Potter. But that's not cringy. You know, you draw the lightning mark and you go to school and.

[Mike]

Was it Halloween?

[Noah]

Yeah. Like it was just Wednesday. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I dressed up like Harry Potter for an event where you might dress up like someone else.

[Mike]

We got a dog and he was a big black dog and we named him Padfoot.

[Caitlin Chess]

And we've met.

[Noah]

That's all.

[Mike]

We've met.

[Noah]

Yeah, yeah.

[Mike]

And I regret that every time I have to introduce that dog to someone

[Caitlin Chess]

because they're pretty millennial. Cringe.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

What. What's his name? So. Yeah, that's. That's probably mine.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah. Okay. Should we get into the more serious topics? Yeah, no, that was good. All right. Yeah. I think we need to revisit some of the characters from last time that you and sky briefly touched on, but didn't give it the full debate. So I have three characters I want us to talk about. The first one. Let's do it. Ginny, Caitlin. Now, you said in the last episode that I think we can all agree Movie Ginny, not great. Underwritten.

[Noah]

Bad.

[Caitlin Chess]

Really bad. She literally. There's so many scenes in the movies where she's just sort of standing there.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Chess]

And then, like, Harry bumps into her and somehow is, like, charmed. And it's like, what is she. She just. What is she doing?

[Mike]

But you try to claim that. Book Jenny also bad.

[Caitlin Chess]

I love that you've set this up to where, like, two men who as boys read this and clearly might have liked Ginny are about to defend her when I'm like, mm, I didn't like her that much.

[Mike]

I just w. Why do you think Book Jenny was also bad?

[Caitlin Chess]

I don't think she was bad. I don't think she was super fleshed out. I didn't find her that interesting. And to be fair, J.K. rowling does have the problem of some of the characters. We've talked about this. We talked about this a little bit in the last thing I did with Sky. Even the houses are kind of, like, super simplistic. And we talked last time about. Or maybe we didn't, about how there's some. I mean, some of the names of characters are, like, weird, cringy, clear indicators of their ethnicity. Like, there's some just, like, very weird, straightforward things. So I'm not. It's not that Ginny is uniquely, maybe one dimensional, but I just kind of thought there wasn't a lot going on there. And my biggest beef that I'm not sure how clearly I said in the last one, is I just, like. Just dispositionally, I want the, like, hero, main character guy who's, like, doing all this stuff to not be with someone who's, like, such a fan of him, and she's, like, such a fan of him the whole time. And I wanted him to be. Sky pointed this out, I think, and maybe some of the comments pointed out. It's not so much that I wanted him to end up with Hermione. It's that I wanted him to end up with someone who would bicker with him and challenge him and, like, you know, push up against him. And it just kind of felt like she was just like, wow, Harry Potter.

[Mike]

Okay, Yeah, I have a rebuttal ready. But, Noah, you. What do you respond to that?

[Noah]

I agree with the movie Ginny takes. I don't think that she does a ton, but the book Ginny, I think, does have a little bit more personality. And I think you're right that she sort of has those starry eyes for Harry in the beginning, but then later, I think she gains more of a backbone.

[Mike]

She grows up.

[Noah]

Yeah, she grows up and she fights in the resistance when she leaves Year seven.

[Mike]

She's in charge of the resistance when Harry's gone. She also won the Quidditch cup when Harry missed it and was maybe even, like, a better Quidditch player than him.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

She was deemed, like, in the sixth book, the most popular girl in the school that everyone was.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Caitlin Chess]

So it goes back to. That goes back to Sky's critique, which is like, why is the coolest, best guy always with the coolest best girl?

[Mike]

I'm not fighting against that critique. And so, like, I just think. And even, like, when. When Harry broke up with her at the end of the sixth book to protect her, she did not, like, cry or like, oh, no, say with me. Like, she understood and, like.

[Caitlin Chess]

But see, that's the thing I want. I want him to be with someone that, like, fights back a little bit.

[Mike]

Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, I get that. I get that, but I felt like in that scene, it wasn't like, it was showing strength in her own way to be like, oh, I understand why you're doing this. And I'm not just some fan girl that's now going to, like, become despondent. In fact, I.

[Noah]

She's not like a Shriek. That's not all she is and is, Girlfriend Hogwarts.

[Caitlin Chess]

That's fair. That's fair. I do think this is clarified for me that, like, what was missing there was. I love when Hermione is, like, pushing him, critiquing him, being like, you have messed this up. And, like, I just want a partner for him that will call him out on stuff. If there had been, like, one instance of that, I think I would feel better about her.

[Noah]

But. Okay, yeah, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. I think Book Ginny has some value. And movie Ginny, you're right.

[Mike]

I don't think she has no Offense to the actor. It just was up there. Yeah. Now let's talk about Snape. So the big debate is essentially, is Snape a good guy or a bad guy? You guys briefly talked about this, but not a lot.

[Caitlin Chess]

Are you please gonna tell us what we.

[Mike]

No, I.

[Caitlin Chess]

No, no, no. I wanna. Are you gonna share with the audience what your children thought? Because this was funny to me.

[Noah]

Oh, you share children thought, the audience.

[Mike]

This is funny. So this is so funny. Like reading the book through their eyes that, like, we're halfway through the book and it's laying it on thick that Snape's still the bad guy in the first book.

[Caitlin Chess]

So thick that as an adult reading it, I was like, I think he's good.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Clearly he's not the bad guy. And I'm so glad, Noah, you reminded Caitlin when she was bragging about predicting all of these twists and turns. So these books were written for 10 year olds?

[Caitlin Chess]

You really did. I was like, I got all this stuff. And you were like, these are children's books.

[Noah]

Well, there was like, yeah, there was. I was able to convince you enough that, like, no, he's a bad guy. Like, he just killed Dumbledore. She's not gonna let that pass. And then she did.

[Caitlin Chess]

I literally was like, I think he had another reason.

[Noah]

Yeah, he had another reason.

[Caitlin Chess]

See what you did in that, you pushed back on me. I was like, I'm so proud that I got this stuff. And you were like, it's a children's book and that's what I want for Harry.

[Mike]

Okay.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

All right. All right. But I need to sit in between. Give you two. Good grief. Okay, let's keep this on the train tracks here. Well. Oh, and my kids thought that Oliver's like, I think Snape is Voldemort. Because he was like, he had put together that, like, I think Voldemort's still around, not fully dead. Snape's a bad guy. Oh, I bet Voldemort.

[Noah]

That would have been a decent twist. Yeah. I mean, in the first book, he's Professor Quirrell.

[Caitlin Chess]

Exactly.

[Noah]

So, like, there's totally.

[Mike]

He's not that far off. Yeah. I was impressed.

[Noah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Mike]

So, I mean, not Caitlyn being able to totally figure it out, but yeah,

[Caitlin Chess]

he's got some years.

[Mike]

Yeah.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Okay. But yeah. Do you guys think Snape. We will set aside for now the weird fandom that has come to exist around Snape.

[Noah]

Oh, sure, yeah.

[Mike]

Yeah. So let's put a pin in that. But in general, do you see him, like, yeah, Complicated, obviously. Great character, but mostly good. Or he was kind of a bully and a jerk and he did some good things, but he's still a bad guy.

[Noah]

I. Personal perspective. Love that chapter. Love the Snape chapter. Love when it. I don't know that it redeems everything he's done, but I don't think he treated Harry that bad. I mean, he's not kind of. But when we really think about what did he do to Harry, he treated him unkindly, which is like a classic. I'm in school and I have a mean teacher.

[Mike]

You could even make the argument that was part of his cover if he was overly nice to him. Right.

[Caitlin Chess]

Totally abusive.

[Noah]

Yeah, he wasn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so, I mean, I don't know that it, like, redeems his bad behavior, but also, I don't really know what counts as bad behavior and what counts as, like, I'm. You know. This is a reminder of this woman I loved who got together with the popular guy. So, listen, I'm not. You're not a Snape apologist, but if you're mad when the popular guy just gets the, you know, Lily and James, that's kind of what happens. They are.

[Caitlin Chess]

You gotta forgive them.

[Noah]

That's true. That's true.

[Caitlin Chess]

No, I. It's interesting. I saw someone comment after sky and I had the conversation about how they were upset that people, you know, make Snape out to be so great when. Remember, he, like, has this grudge against this kid and, like, was trying. Like, even in the scene when you realize he was there when she died, especially in the movie, it is weird that, like, the baby's crying there and he's holding this dead woman and being like. And it makes the whole thing weird. Agree with that person. However, I do think it doesn't seem like Rowling's trying to be like, oh, psych. He was good all along. It was like, many people complicated. Some good, some bad. And she's not always great, actually, in these books at making complicated people. Like, some of the people are way too straightforwardly evil or good. And I like that there's someone who, the whole time you're like, I'm not really sure where they'll actually land. I think they have some character traits that are not always great, but they also come through in these important moments. Like, that's more realistic to how life is.

[Mike]

I agree. I mean, he is the best written character, totally character development. And I think, like, for children's books, so many children's books, it is good guys, bad guys. Good versus evil. And to introduce a main character who is complicated, to hopefully introduce children to, like, oh, most of the people you interact with are complicated people. They do good things. They do really bad things. And it's probably a lesson that even in our today's age of being so polarized that we need to be reminded that we are. It's not good guys versus bad guys. It's complicated people trying to do their best and often making mistakes along the way.

[Caitlin Chess]

And it's kind of a classic trope in, like, in, like, classic literature that a man is, like, still pining after this woman and that's shaping his life. We think it's weird in this children's book, and it is a little weird, but it's also not uncommon to use that in telling a story.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

Okay. And then let's talk about Neville, because he might be the most underrated character.

[Caitlin Chess]

So cute.

[Mike]

Noah, refresh the audience. Remind us, like, the prophecy and everything around Neville give us. I know I'm putting you on the spot here.

[Noah]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike]

Can you give us a quick recap?

[Noah]

The Dark Lord. There's one who rises with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord. But the Dark Lord knows him not, and he will mark him as his. Wow.

[Mike]

I didn't expect you.

[Noah]

Something like that.

[Mike]

That was amazing.

[Caitlin Chess]

That's.

[Noah]

Something like that.

[Mike]

It's basically. Right.

[Noah]

Trelawney voice.

[Mike]

I was impressed with myself. I knew how many pages. The Sorcerer.

[Noah]

That was more impressive.

[Mike]

I think that was more.

[Noah]

Because I think you got the exact. And I'm.

[Mike]

I know I got the exact number.

[Noah]

Right.

[Mike]

But that is some more impressive.

[Noah]

It's like, I got the verse, you got the.

[Mike]

Yeah, the reference.

[Noah]

Reference chapter number.

[Mike]

Okay. So, yeah, there was a prophecy. And basically what it was. Right. That the prophecy could have applied to either Harry or Neville. Right. And so. And Voldemort had to choose between the two.

[Noah]

Yeah.

[Mike]

And what's interesting is that this was not in the movies at all. Right.

[Noah]

And.

[Mike]

And I think, like, tell. You were talking a little bit about this before we started recording of, like, why that's so fascinating that Harry didn't necessarily have some intrinsic value that made him the Chosen One. Yeah. But rather, it was forces outside of himself that determined that.

[Noah]

Right. Well, yeah, I just think Neville is a fantastic contrast to Harry because. Yeah, they mention it a lot in the books, but it's really interesting how Voldemort chooses the person who defeats him. And so it's. Yeah.

[Mike]

We.

[Noah]

You know, the Chosen One narrative around Harry isn't actually because There is anything special about him. The moment he's born, he becomes special because the evil that wants to basically gain all the power and use it for evil purposes ends up like, eating its own tail, creating its own demise. And I like that. That's emphasized by the character of Neville, who could have been Harry and wasn't and then gets some redemption in the end where, like, he does grow into being a part of the heroic story Harry couldn't have destroyed when the Horcrux is without Neville. And so in a way, he still fulfills a role of like, good triumphing over evil. And I think that's awesome.

[Caitlin Chess]

I love that you pointed that out because I was telling you about the conversation sky and I had about what did we miss that was in the movie or that wasn't in the movie, that was in the book. And I forget what we even talked about. It was like a few kind of random things, but that's actually like a really substantive. That changes how the story makes sense. I mean. Cause Neville's in the movies and he does play the role of like, you know, he's bungling and messing things up. And then like in the end he has this great moment of heroism and there is. Does it even talk in the movies about his parents at all?

[Noah]

He mentions his parents in like the fifth one. He says. He points them out in the picture and says, voldemort did something to my parents.

[Caitlin Chess]

But that's kind of it because in the books there's the whole, like, they go to the hospital and discover his parents are there and what happened to them. And that really does change. That has a more substantive effect on the themes of the story not being in the movies than being in the book.

[Noah]

Yeah,

[Mike]

This leads me to like, I think a big theme throughout the entire series is the theme of choice and the choices. We make the choices. And like, whether it's Voldemort choosing Harry over Neville because Dumbledore even has this famous quote. It is our choices that show what we truly are far more than our abilities. And I love that. And I think it represents so much throughout the series, the Malfoy's choices and how they go about that. We see that in Harry and Hermione and Ron and. And we're going to get to the Christian themes. I think this is part of it, of where free will and predestination and our abilities and all they kind of merge together. And I love that Rawling emphasizes so much throughout the series the importance of our choices and that it's never too late to change. Even like at the very end, Harry gives Voldemort a chance to repent. He says, show remorse. And I thought, that's a powerful scene right there. So I don't know, did that theme stand out to either one of you as you were reading through the books?

[Noah]

You know, I don't think until we've until we really talked about it a couple days ago, I don't think I noticed how big that theme of choice was. But as you talk about it now, I even think about, like one of the key moments in the seventh book

[Sky]

where Ron decides, don't worry, this is not the end of the episode. There's actually plenty more. But to listen to the rest, you need to be a Holy Post plus subscriber. So head over to holeypost.com skypod and sign up for just $5 a month. Not only will you get uninterrupted episodes of the Sky Pod, which means you'll never have to hear this dumb announcement again, but you'll also get access to everything else at Holy Post plus, including episodes of Getting Schooled by Caitlin, Chess bonus interviews, live streams, the Holy Post Book Club, exclusive merchandise, and a whole bunch more. And you'll get the warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing that you're supporting our work of creating smart, pro neighbor Christian content. So head over to holypost.com skypod and subscribe today.