The SkyePod - Drew's News

Summary

The SkyePod - Drew's News Release Date: December 20, 2024 Host: Skye Jethani Guest: Drew Dick

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Introduction to Drew's News

In this engaging episode of The SkyePod, host Skye Jethani welcomes Drew Dick for a special edition of "Drew's News." The segment focuses on unusual and quirky news stories that Drew curates from his social media feeds, setting the stage for a lively discussion filled with humor and insightful commentary.

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Story 1: Archaeologists Claim to Discover Santa's Tomb

Summary: Drew introduces the first story about archaeologists in Turkey who allege the discovery of Santa Claus's tomb. This revelation ties back to the historical figure of St. Nicholas, exploring the origins of the Santa Claus mythology.

Notable Quotes:

• Drew Dick [01:22]: "If you have children in the room that love Santa Claus, get them out now because this could be very disturbing."
• Skye Jethani [01:46]: "They probably found it a long time ago, and they're waiting till they knew it was going to make the press."

Discussion Highlights:

• Historical Context: Skye and Drew delve into the life of St. Nicholas, a third-century figure known for his generosity, which inspired the modern Santa Claus.
• Cultural Impact: They discuss how discoveries like the alleged tomb can influence contemporary beliefs and traditions surrounding Santa.
• Pop Culture Reference: The conversation touches upon the movie Violent Night, which portrays St. Nicholas as a warrior, blending historical and fictional elements.

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Balancing Santa Claus Mythology in Parenting

Summary: The hosts explore how they navigate the Santa Claus narrative with their children, balancing tradition with truth.

Notable Quotes:

• Skye Jethani [04:08]: "Santa Claus is another name for this true person, St. Nicholas."
• Drew Dick [04:01]: "We tell them about Santa, but we give them the correct spelling, which is S a T, a N."

Discussion Highlights:

• Approach to Mythology: Sky emphasizes reinforcing the real-life generosity of St. Nicholas over the fictional aspects of Santa Claus.
• Parental Challenges: Both hosts share their strategies to maintain authenticity while preserving the magic of the holiday season for their children.
• Cultural Critique: Sky voices concerns about attributing gift-giving to fictional characters, highlighting the importance of honesty in parenting.

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Pet Peeves in Preaching and Sermons

Summary: A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing common annoyances with preaching styles and sermon content, offering both critique and empathy towards pastors.

Notable Quotes:

• Drew Dick [07:32]: "I hate it when pastors start a sermon, they're like, good morning, everyone. And then they don't get the response they want."
• Sky Jethani [10:49]: "Is it all just performance or is there actual substance to it?"

Discussion Highlights:

• Common Criticisms: The hosts identify issues such as forced participation ("turn to the person next to you and say..."), superficial content, and preachers seeking personal validation.
• Personal Experiences: Sky shares an anecdote about a preacher with a distracting physical tic, illustrating how minor habits can detract from the message.
• Preaching vs. Teaching: A deep dive into the distinction between preaching (proclaiming) and teaching (explaining), emphasizing that sermons often become performance pieces rather than meaningful spiritual guidance.

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Reflections on Effective Preaching

Summary: Skye and Drew reflect on what makes preaching effective, proposing that sermons should inspire and draw listeners closer to God rather than focusing on the preacher's performance.

Notable Quotes:

• Skye Jethani [13:01]: "Preaching is best. I mean, teaching is best done in small groups, in relational settings."
• Drew Dick [16:41]: "It's a gift. It's really, really wonderful. But it's rare."

Discussion Highlights:

• Inspirational Focus: The goal of preaching should be to inspire listeners about God's nature and teachings, not to showcase the preacher's abilities.
• Selflessness in Ministry: Sky discusses the importance of preachers being vessels for God's message rather than seeking personal approval.
• Challenges for Preachers: Acknowledgment of the difficulties preachers face, including the pressure to deliver compelling sermons weekly and the emotional toll it can take.

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Conclusion

While the episode teeters on the brink of concluding with Sky promoting subscription services, the core discussion revolves around blending quirky news with profound reflections on faith, parenting, and effective communication in religious settings. Listeners gain both entertainment and thoughtful insights into navigating modern traditions and the responsibilities of spiritual leadership.

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Note: This summary omits promotional content and focuses solely on the episode's substantive discussions.

Transcript

[Sky Jethani]

Thankfully, Drew, you and I are always pure enough. So, hello, everyone. Welcome to the sky pod, brought to you by Holy Post Media. Today, Drew Dick is with us for another edition of Drew's News, where you feed me news stories and we talk about them and react. And this isn't, like, important news for the most part. It's weird news that Drew finds comes through your social media feed. It's just you always pick really weird stuff.

[Drew Dick]

There's a mix guy. Come on, let's be fair, okay? Some of these are important. Some of them are downright ridiculous.

[Sky Jethani]

We like the variety. That's why we're here.

[Drew Dick]

Keep you on your toes.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so story number one, what are.

[Drew Dick]

You jumping right in, huh?

[Sky Jethani]

We are just going for it, Drew.

[Drew Dick]

I was hoping for some warmup. We'll see how I do here. Well, this first one's sort of a timely one because I don't know when this is going to come out, but we're right before Christmas here recording it. And I will say this for listeners. If you have children in the room that love Santa Claus, get them out now because this could be very disturbing.

[Sky Jethani]

Is he being indicted?

[Drew Dick]

Worse. Worse, if you can believe it. So here's the story. Archaeologists in Turkey, they have uncovered Santa's tomb. And I love this story, right, St. Nicholas, because these archaeologists, they bust out this news two weeks before Christmas, and I'm like, congrats, guys. You told everyone Santa's dead?

[Sky Jethani]

No. You know what? They probably found it a long time ago, and they're waiting till they knew it was going to make the press and get a lot of attention.

[Drew Dick]

It's all about the time they were sick on this.

[Sky Jethani]

How did they know it was Santa's tomb? I'm assuming the casket was, like, gift wrapped with a bow on it or something. Oh, this one. This. This must be Santa's.

[Drew Dick]

It was the big beard. No, and here's the weird thing. They haven't, like, definitively said it's. It's St. Nicholas's tomb yet. But, I mean, the first clue is that this was, like, underneath the church called St. Nicholas Church. I'm like, why didn't you look there in the first place? So, anyway.

[Sky Jethani]

Well, okay, but there must be some, like, tradition that says this is where he was buried. And they. They must have excavated and found a tomb or multiple tombs. I don't know. There's lots of tombs under churches. Haven't you seen Indiana Jones?

[Drew Dick]

Exactly.

[Sky Jethani]

That's how it works.

[Drew Dick]

Yeah. And usually someone dies when you open it, but. So, yeah, Interesting story. Okay. He was a real dude. You know, for people that don't know he lived in the third century. We don't know actually a lot about him, but he was known for his generosity. That's kind of where the Santa Claus story comes from. And he was at the. The original ecumenical council of the church, the council of Nicaea, 325. And apparently he opposed Arius, the early heretic. There is a story that he slapped or punched Arius, but that is unsubstantiated. So.

[Sky Jethani]

Okay. Which is part of. Did you see the movie Violent Night?

[Drew Dick]

No, I know what you're talking about.

[Sky Jethani]

But yeah, so it's. It's a violent movie. It's rated R. It's. It's ridiculous. But it was kind of entertaining. But it was kind of. It was built on this mythology that the real Saint Nicholas was actually a warrior and fought in wars and, you know, the early centuries of the church or whatever. And so he still has that ability and uses it to rescue this family whose home is taken over by terrorists at Christmas Eve.

[Drew Dick]

But. Amazing, amazing.

[Sky Jethani]

Wait, but this raises a question for me. Like, you still have younger kids?

[Drew Dick]

Yeah.

[Sky Jethani]

Do you, do you guys. Do you and Grace actually. Do you promote the Santa Claus mythology? Do you actively oppose it or do you just kind of stay neutral?

[Drew Dick]

Yeah, we tell them about Santa, but we give them the correct spelling, which is S a T, a N.

[Sky Jethani]

Oh, that's terrible. That's. That's terrible. I mean, that's like the church lady thing where she talks about that because he wears red and.

[Drew Dick]

What do you mean? Didn't even think of that? No. Okay. So, yeah, no, we never gave them the full, like, oh, you know, Santa's real. He's going to bring the presidents down the chimney. But we're not like the. The anti Santa people, you know, So I don't know, but I. They've just never believed we actually talked about this recently. They're like, ah, we never believe that. Okay. But they got to be careful because some of their friends do. Right?

[Sky Jethani]

And so that's always the hard part. That's always the hard. We. We did not actively push the Santa thing. We didn't oppose it either. We just kind of let it be. And then when my kids would ask me, or we actually got a storybook about St. Nicholas that. That gets into some of his generosity and his care for. For children and stuff like that, and I tried to reinforce that, well, Santa Claus is another name for this true person, St. Nicholas. And we kind of. And so it was my way of threading the needle a little bit. But here my beef, like some people will say, you really shouldn't push a Santa Claus myth because when they eventually discover the truth, it's gonna, it'll lead to deconstructing everything else. You taught them that.

[Drew Dick]

What else were you lying about, dad?

[Sky Jethani]

Right. Well, now I don't believe in the resurrection, you know, whatever. And I, I never thought that was a big worry. But my bigger beef was I did not like giving credit to a fictional character for the gifts that I freaking bought them.

[Drew Dick]

Come on, man. Yeah, exactly. I'm buying these things. Yeah, I got a beard. Yeah, I want, I want credit anyway.

[Sky Jethani]

So I don't, I don't, I don't like that. That was my problem with it. And the elf on the shelf thing. The elf on the shelf thing is straight from hell. I just, I, I, I hate that idea and we never did it. But I, it's like I have enough stress as a parent dealing with especially younger kids and all the stress of the season and this, the school programs and what. I don't need to be thinking about where to put this dumb elf every day. And then you have to make it super cute and post it on social media. And it's like, I, this is just tyranny. It's absolutely.

[Drew Dick]

I know about that elf on the shelf thing until years ago. So, yeah, maybe it's not a Canadian thing. I don't know. We didn't have it up there. But.

[Sky Jethani]

A Mountie on a. Mountie on a.

[Drew Dick]

It's a Mountie that comes down the chimney and gives presents to the kids.

[Sky Jethani]

Okay, story number two.

[Drew Dick]

Story. We're cruising.

[Sky Jethani]

Okay, we're cruising.

[Drew Dick]

This isn't a story per se. This was a conversation that was on X, which I thought was interesting. So a pastor out there in the Chicago land area, you know this guy? We know him. Joe. Oh, yeah.

[Sky Jethani]

Joe Thorne, you said?

[Drew Dick]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Sky Jethani]

I haven't seen him in a very, very long time. Is he still the big beard?

[Drew Dick]

He's got the big beard. He's got the tattoos.

[Sky Jethani]

Speaking of Santa.

[Drew Dick]

Right. I mean, he's kind of a Santa figure. He's not, not portly, but he has probably smoked more cigars than Winston Churchill and Fidel Castro combined. That's Joe's awesome. Anyway, he posed a question online, which I thought was interesting. He asked people, of course, he's a preacher himself, but he asked people, what are the things that preachers say and do that you find most off putting and distracting in a Sermon. And as you can imagine, man, the floodgates opened, and, like, one person said, like, I hate it when pastors start a sermon. They're like, good morning, everyone. And then they don't get the response they want. They're like, you can do better than that. Good morning.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah. Yeah, I. I'm probably been guilty of that in the past when I was a pastor. Yeah, when you're the guest speaker, you don't. You don't do that because you don't know if it's the best they can do. Maybe that's the best they can do. So you don't, you know, berate them about that. So I don't do that anymore.

[Drew Dick]

So what are your pet peeves?

[Sky Jethani]

Oh, gosh. How much time do we have? How much time do we have, Drew? I mean, you know, nobody's more.

[Drew Dick]

We can take the hour.

[Sky Jethani]

Like, my dad is a doctor, and it's fascinating when he goes off on other doctors about, like, whether it's in a movie or television or it's actual real people who are telling him about what their doctors did. My dad will roll his eyes and. What an idiot. You know, we're always critical of our own vocations and because we know about them. So what are my pet peeves? There's very superficial things, and then there's more, you know, substantive critiques. One of my pet peeves are, well, there's. And I'm guilty of this, too. We all have our verbal and physical tics, like, just things we do and. And we don't realize until you see it in video or you write. But I won't name names, but many, many, many, many years ago, there was a preacher that I would see. I'm trying to be very careful and not revealing too much. Anyway, he had this really awkward tick that he used to do where when he spoke, he would regularly grab and adjust his crotch.

[Drew Dick]

Unfortunate tick.

[Sky Jethani]

It's something you'd think of, like a coach doing or. And he was kind of a jock like, that. He. And he would just regularly grab his pants and, like, give himself some room, and it's so distracting that you just can't.

[Drew Dick]

Where's his wife? That's what I want to know. His wife needs to be like, hey, I don't know, dude.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah, but, I mean, people loved him, and he had a very fruitful ministry, and relationally was incredible. Like, he had a lot of things, and so everyone kind of just forgave this thing. But he just. I don't know why, but he regularly did that. And like I said, every speaker has their thing. I have mine. My kids point it out all the time. But that one was just, like, a really distracting, really weird one that I.

[Drew Dick]

Feel like now any pet peeve we mention is gonna pale in comparison to that one.

[Sky Jethani]

Like, I said, this. This is pet peeve. It's not substantive. I can critique. Really. I will maybe get into that. Do you have one or something that you.

[Drew Dick]

I've got a couple.

[Sky Jethani]

Okay.

[Drew Dick]

What's.

[Sky Jethani]

Yours?

[Drew Dick]

And mine aren't as legitimate because I'm not really a preacher. I mean, I've preached, but I'm not really a preacher. So I kind of feel bad, too, because I get it. It's hard, especially when you have to do it every week. But one that I hate is where the preacher will say, turn to the person next to you and say. And it's usually some flowery nonsense or Christianese like, God thinks you're a beautiful rainbow, or I don't know what it is. And it's so condescending and irritating. And I refuse. I'm just like, nope, I'm not going to say it. That's weird. And it's sort of like a lot of the pet peeves people mentioned actually fell into that kind of forced participation bucket.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah. I started reading through some of the responses, and it was either that or things that were, again, not substantive about the. So, I mean, if I could. My biggest. Not critique, but the lens through which I am evaluating a sermon is, is it all sizzle or is there any stake here? Right. Is. Is it all just performance or is there actual substance to it? And in a lot of places, people will walk away going, wow, that was amazing. And I'm going, it was fluff. Like there was nothing to it. And. And I think another dynamic here is we've done a very poor job in much of the American church differentiating preaching and teaching. Like, for example, when I was on staff at our church for a good long time, my title was teaching pastor. And yet what I did mostly was preach. And. And we just think, what's the essential difference? We think they're synonymous. They're not. So, I mean, you know Greek, you probably know it better than I do.

[Drew Dick]

It's been a while, but yeah, okay.

[Sky Jethani]

The Greek word for teach is didasco. Right. To. To. It's where we get didactic from. It's to explain something. And the word for preach is caruso, or to proclaim. And so here's a simple illustration. Like, if you're at the airport and there's an announcement made like, Flight 500 from Portland has arrived. That's preaching, right? It's an announcement that something has happened to, like, explain the aerodynamics of lift and drag and how ailerons work and all that, to explain how the plane landed. That's teaching, Right. So early in the Gospels, Jesus commands his disciples to go out and preach. The kingdom of God has arrived. These guys didn't know anything yet. They hadn't even. They were, you know, making mistakes left, right, and center. He doesn't give them the command to teach, go and make disciples, teaching them to obey all kinds until after the resurrection, until after they had more proficiency in understanding what was really going on. So I think what we do, which is a significant error, is we treat the pulpit like it's a teaching venue.

[Drew Dick]

Oh, interesting.

[Sky Jethani]

And there's a mountain of research that says monologuing to a passive group of people is a horrible way to teach anything. Very little is retained, very little transformation happens. But it's a great way to announce something.

[Drew Dick]

Yeah.

[Sky Jethani]

And so the way I kind of apply this today is preaching is best. I mean, teaching is best done in small groups, in relational settings, in dialogical engagement, back and forth, where you really come to a deep, deeper understanding and hopefully application of what it is you are engaging. But the goal of preaching should not be to teach. The goal of preaching should be to inspire, and that's a different goal. And. And there's certain things that, you know, it does require clear and good communication and things, but it's just. I think we get. We do the wrong thing in the wrong setting and it gets messy.

[Drew Dick]

But that's interesting. And I bet, you know, different people have different gifts when it comes to that. Right. Some people are totally great proclaimers, great preachers, but they're not teachers, and vice versa.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah. And then the other big evaluative framing is, do you walk away from the sermon inspired by who God is inspired to draw closer to him, inspired by his power or his love, his mercy, his good whatever, inspired about God? Or do you walk away inspired about the preacher?

[Drew Dick]

Right. Man, that guy can preach.

[Sky Jethani]

Exactly. Or what an amazing story he told about how, you know, he rescued that dog from, you know, that. Whatever. It's just like it. And that leads to kind of the deepest spiritual component here. And I. And I by no means have arrived at this point, but it's. It's an aspiration for me. You can kind of tell discern whether a preacher is sharing a message because they genuinely are there to serve the people that they're shepherding or teaching or speaking to or whatever, or if the people are really there because the preacher needs them. In other words, is the preacher doing this because they are longing to receive something from the audience, or is the preacher there truly to give something to them? And I remember talking to John Ortberg about this many, many, many years ago, where he was. He told me the story of going somewhere where Dallas Willard was speaking. And the metaphor he used is. He said it felt like Dallas went out on that stage and he was holding, like, a helium balloon. And the balloon is what the message God had given him to share with these people. And he kind of held it out and he just released it. And everyone had their attention on the balloon. And then Dallas just walked off the stage and was indifferent to whether they liked him or didn't like him, whether they were inspired by him or not. The point was I ob. I obeyed God and I gave them the balloon. And that's. That's. And, like, that's where you get to a place of. It's not about me, it's about them. And it's about the thing that God has. Has called me to give to them. And in many. I think in a lot of our settings, there's. Preachers are. We're very insecure people. We love an audience. We want the positive feedback. We're really there on some level for ourselves and to reach a level of maturity where it really is about giving to these people what God wants given to them. And I'm just a vessel through which that happens. But it could be anybody. That's a rare thing to find. And I have been in settings where I have encountered preachers who are like that. And it's a gift. It's really, really wonderful. But it's rare.

[Drew Dick]

And it's hard, though, because, I mean, just. Yeah. And it's not even necessarily like an egotistical thing, like, oh, I want to be the best communicator in the world. But you just want it to go off well. You want people to think that you're good at what you did. Right. Right. And so, yeah, I guess I feel for preacher preachers, too, because. And, I mean, sometimes you got to give a sermon that people aren't going to like, and then it's especially complicated when your livelihood is dependent upon your performance to some degree. And. Yeah.

[Sky Jethani]

I'll tell you one last story about, like, when I was maybe 30, I don't know, I was still pretty young, and I had. We were going through a series in the church And I would. It was. Me and the senior pastor were kind of like, sharing the pulpit from week to week, different parts of this series. I think it was through the Sermon on the Mount. And it felt on my week to do the passage in Matthew 7 about the day of Judgment, right where Jesus is away from me. You evildoers, I never knew you.

[Drew Dick]

He gave you the easy one.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah, I was gonna give you. And I was stressed for two weeks about writing that sermon and delivering that sermon. And I tied. I still remember I titled the sermon a Message no one Wants to Hear, which had double meaning. Like, you don't want to hear Jesus say, away from me. You ever just. And you don't want to hear what I'm going to say about it. Like, no one wants to hear this message. So I was super stressed about it. I. I was young, you know, I just. All this. All the stuff. And so I. I did the sermon. And then afterwards, as one does, you're in the lobby in the foyer of the church and greeting people, and, you know, and this older gentleman comes up to me, and he is just, like, really earnest, really, really earnest. And I shake his hand, and he grabs. He grabs my hand in both of his, like, really holding onto me. And he's looking me dead in the eye. And. And he says to me, he's like, I just want you to know how deeply, deeply meaningful it was to me that you wore a tie today. And he was being totally serious. And here. I know.

[Drew Dick]

It's just.

[Sky Jethani]

It was. Honestly, it was what I needed to hear because, like, it kind of broke my ego a little bit to, like. I felt like I worked and prayed hard about this sermon, and I really, you know, poured my soul into it. And I was super stressed about it, and I was really, really worried about how people were going to respond to me. And to know that, like, he probably didn't hear a frigging thing I said the whole time, because he was.

[Drew Dick]

Because I always wore that tie.

[Sky Jethani]

I always. I always tended to preach pretty casual in my dress and that. I don't know why that day I wore a tie. And, like, he was so fixated on the tie. That's what he walked away with. And I'm like, okay, you know, you can do what you do, and maybe you do it faithfully, maybe you don't. You just don't know what they're hearing, what they're engaging, what they're going to latch onto, what they're not. God is going to do, what he's going to do or not do what he's going to. It's beyond your control. And that. I just. I've always remember that story because it was. It's sort of like my. I'm going to release this balloon thing. I don't know how people are going to respond to it, but. Okay.

[Drew Dick]

And why aren't you wearing a tie now, Sky?

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah.

[Drew Dick]

Come on. Did you learn nothing? I. I preached at a buddy's church. He invited me to come and preach, and he introduced me, and he's like, I'm really looking forward to this. Drew is absolutely hilarious. He's going to have you laughing. I had no jokes planned. I.

[Sky Jethani]

And you did something like what? Psalm 90. Life is flee. We're about a breath. It's all meaningless. Ecclesiastes. What. What?

[Drew Dick]

It was. It was Galatians, you know, the fruit of the spirit passage. Anyway, but I had, like. I'm like, dude, you totally screwed me here. I'm. They're looking at me, just hoping that I'm going to entertain them. And. Yeah, it must have been a massive disappointment.

[Sky Jethani]

Sometimes it's. You can feel really honored when somebody. You're a guest somewhere and somebody gives you just a super glowing introduction, but part of you is like, dude, lower expectations a little bit. Like, that's.

[Drew Dick]

Lower the bar a bit, right? Yeah. Hilarious. Okay, one more. One more pet peeve I got to get off my chest, though.

[Sky Jethani]

Okay.

[Drew Dick]

And this. I feel like this is a new one. And maybe it's like prosperity gospel preacher folks or. But they'll say this before they make what they think is a particularly good point. They'll say, watch this. Have you ever seen that?

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Drew Dick]

Okay, you're not doing skateboard tricks for your mom here. Okay? This is. You're proclaiming the word of God. Watch this, Mom.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah.

[Drew Dick]

Maybe that's just me.

[Sky Jethani]

No, I get it. I. I think when. When you. I don't know. I could. I don't want to criticize things that aren't worth criticizing, but. Yes, I understand. I understand what you mean. And. And that also gets back to. Just put that two words. You are elevating expectations.

[Drew Dick]

Yes. And yourself. Like, look at how cool this.

[Sky Jethani]

Right.

[Drew Dick]

This hermeneutical maneuver I'm going to make is. It's that impressive anyway.

[Sky Jethani]

Right.

[Drew Dick]

But, yeah, like I said, though, I also have a lot of grace for preachers because I remember my seminary Prof. Saying, like, when you preach every week, it's like passing fence posts on the highway. They just come whipping at you. Right. And it's really tough and it's hard. I mean, yeah, it's like you got to come up with a sermon every week, you know, 30, 40 minutes. Of course, yeah, we can talk about whether same dude should be doing that every week. But it's tough and it's easy for armchair critics like me to go, you're doing this wrong. You're doing that right.

[Sky Jethani]

It is really, really hard. And in the seasons where I was preaching every week, it definitely takes a toll. But. And I've. We're not going to get into this right now. I've written and we've talked about in the past, like I, I've gotten in trouble with, with preachers because I just, I don't think it is as effective a model of disciple making as we think it is.

[Drew Dick]

Yeah, we do over estimate.

[Sky Jethani]

Yeah. People go nuts. Me. So you're right. It's very. The preacher. I think it's malformative for their own soul if they're the one in that role too frequently and people become too dependent on them. I think it's not the best use of the church's time and resources for the formation. I think I could critique it all day long, but I think there's a place for it. I appreciate when it's done very faithfully. I still do it with some regularity, but I just think there are too many pastors who need to preach and not enough people who actually need them to preach. And that's, that's the missed.

[Drew Dick]

Yeah.

[Sky Jethani]

Connection. So.

[Drew Dick]

Yeah, no, I hear you. Okay, we're jumping into another one. This is.

[Sky Jethani]

All right, Was this number three?

[Drew Dick]

I don't even know if we should do this. Let's. Let's see how it goes. Okay. This is like this super long article. I didn't even read it. I listened to it. It's a cop out, but it was like 30 minutes or something. And it's called Modernity's Self Destruct Button. This is written by you read it. Oh, man. Okay, I'm eager to hear your take. I sent it to my wife, Grace, and she thought it was.

[Sky Jethani]

Don't worry, this is not the end of the episode. There's actually plenty more. But to listen to the rest, you need to be a Holy Post plus subscriber. So head over to holeypost.com skypod and sign up for just $5 a month. Not only will you get uninterrupted episodes of the Skypod, which means you'll never have to hear this dumb announcement again, but you'll also get access to everything else. @ Holy Post + including episodes of Getting Schooled by Caitlin, Chess, bonus interviews, live streams, the Holy Post Book Club, exclusive merchandise and a whole bunch more. And you'll get the warm, fuzzy feeling of knowing that you're supporting our work of creating smart, pro neighbor Christian content. So head over to holypost.com skypod and subscribe today.