The SkyePod – Episode: James Ryan Smith
Host: Skye Jethani
Guest: James Ryan Smith
Release Date: February 14, 2025

In this enlightening episode of The SkyePod, host Skye Jethani sits down with James Ryan Smith, a distinguished professor of theology at Friends University and the director of the Apprentice Institute for Christian Formation. Their conversation delves deep into the realms of spiritual formation, the influential work of Dallas Willard, and the evolving landscape of Christian discipleship.

1. Introduction to James Ryan Smith and His Work

Skye Jethani opens the discussion by highlighting James Ryan Smith's extensive contributions to Christian literature, particularly his "Good and Beautiful" series. Skye mentions Smith's biography of Rich Mullins, underscoring Smith's profound connections within the Christian community.

Notable Quote:
James Ryan Smith shares his gratitude, saying, “Anytime I can spend time with you. He's a blessing” (00:23).

2. The Apprentice Institute for Christian Formation

Smith elaborates on the Apprentice Institute for Christian Formation, an initiative aimed at fostering holistic spiritual development. The institute offers undergraduate and master's degrees in Christian spiritual formation and soul care, reflecting Smith’s dedication to educating students at all levels.

Key Points:

• Educational Programs: Undergraduate and master's degrees focusing on Christian spiritual formation.
• Annual Conferences: The Apprentice Gathering, an annual event featuring writers and speakers on God, faith, and formation, consistently selling out in recent years.
• Digital Presence: Offers a podcast titled Things Above and solo devotionals based on Colossians 3.

Notable Quote:
Smith humorously remarks on the institute’s acronym, “the Apprentice Institute. It’s the Apprentice Institute for Christian Formation. And we... are going to take over the world, clearly” (01:50).

3. The Evolution of Spiritual Formation in Christianity

Reflecting on his long-term involvement in spiritual formation, Smith discusses the movement’s growth within the Protestant and evangelical churches. He recounts the early challenges faced when spiritual formation was met with suspicion and resistance, often being misconstrued as mysticism or overly Catholic.

Key Points:

• Founding Roots: Smith was a founding member of Renovare alongside Richard Foster and Dallas Willard.
• Early Resistance: Faced pushback in the late '80s and early '90s, with critics labeling spiritual formation as new age or demonic.
• Growth Over Time: Emphasizes that spiritual formation has grown steadily despite initial skepticism.

Notable Quote:
Smith describes the early opposition, “spiritual formation in the Catholic tradition meant the training of priests... people were like, we can't meditate” (06:13).

4. The Tipping Point: Acceptance of Spiritual Formation

Smith identifies 2005 as a pivotal year when spiritual formation gained widespread acceptance. This shift was influenced by Dallas Willard’s Divine Conspiracy and increased demand for deeper spiritual life, culminating in a massive Renovare conference in Denver that reflected the movement’s newfound momentum.

Key Points:

• Influential Works: Dallas Willard’s Spirit of the Disciplines (1988) and Divine Conspiracy (1998) played crucial roles in deepening the theological foundation of spiritual formation.
• Massive Conferences: The 2005 Renovare International Conference in Denver drew 2,500 attendees, signaling a significant shift in acceptance.
• Cultural Shift: Over time, the fear surrounding spiritual practices diminished as Christians sought more holistic discipleship.

Notable Quote:
Smith recounts, “We had a renovare international conference in Denver. It was at a big downtown coliseum, 2500 people... I'm hungry for a deeper life with God and that's why I'm here” (10:32).

5. Introducing Dallas Willard

The conversation turns to Dallas Willard, a central figure in modern Christian thought. Smith shares his personal journey with Willard, from initially struggling to grasp his teachings to eventually understanding and embracing his profound insights.

Key Points:

• First Encounter: Smith attended a lecture by Willard during his time as a student at Friends University, initially finding Willard’s language challenging.
• Collaborative Efforts: Became a teaching assistant for Willard’s courses at Fuller Spirituality Ministry, gaining deeper exposure to his philosophies.
• Vocational Influence: Willard’s background in philosophy enriched his theological teachings, providing a unique framework for Christian formation.

Notable Quote:
Reflecting on his early interactions, Smith admits, “I couldn't understand him... his vocabulary was different” (11:10).

6. Personal Experiences and Growth Through Dallas Willard’s Teachings

Smith describes the transformative impact of Willard’s teachings on his own understanding of spiritual formation. The pivotal moment came during a course segment on the Sermon on the Mount, where Smith began to fully grasp Willard’s definitions and concepts.

Key Points:

• Terminology Differences: Willard redefined common Christian terms, such as “grace” and “kingdom,” to encompass broader theological meanings.
• Evolution of Understanding: It took several years and multiple courses for Smith to fully internalize Willard’s teachings.
• Educational Tools: References to resources like “The Dallas Dictionary” highlight the need to correctly interpret Willard’s terminology for proper comprehension.

Notable Quote:
Smith explains the breakthrough, “So I think it was somewhere in the third year when all. Suddenly the lights were going on. And now that makes sense” (15:19).

7. Dallas Willard’s Teaching Style and Humility

Sky and Smith discuss Willard’s unique and humble approach to teaching. Despite his profound insights, Willard remained modest, often shunning elaborate introductions and focusing solely on conveying his message.

Key Points:

• Humility: Willard consistently attributed his teachings to the Holy Spirit rather than personal achievement.
• Teaching Method: Utilized significant pauses to allow listeners to absorb information, demonstrating confidence in the substance of his message.
• Personal Anecdotes: Smith shares stories illustrating Willard’s humility, such as his reluctance to be quoted excessively and his practical disregard for personal appearance concerns.

Notable Quotes:
Smith recounts Willard’s humility, “It was God, you know. Right. He genuinely believed that what he was saying and doing was not him” (21:04).
He also shares a personal story: “He was wearing these navy blue slacks and I noticed... he was going to keep those old slacks and he's going to have them stitched up and it doesn't bother him” (25:53).

8. Understanding Dallas Willard’s Philosophical Influence

Willard’s background in philosophy, particularly his studies in Husserl, significantly influenced his theological perspectives. This philosophical foundation allowed him to integrate deep theological concepts seamlessly into Christian formation.

Key Points:

• Philosophical Training: Willard’s expertise in phenomenology provided a robust framework for his spiritual teachings.
• Unique Perspective: His ability to bridge philosophy and theology made his work particularly distinctive and impactful.
• Mentorship: Despite his profound knowledge, Willard remained approachable and focused on fostering genuine spiritual growth rather than academic acclaim.

Notable Quote:
Smith reflects on Willard’s uniqueness, “He was a unique trailblazing guy from, from the beginning. And so now I'm hanging out with him and in, in greater I'm like, I'm working with him and in, in greater I'm like, I'm working with him” (18:01).

9. Conclusion: Legacy of Dallas Willard and Spiritual Formation

The episode concludes with a reflection on Dallas Willard’s enduring legacy in Christian spiritual formation. Smith emphasizes the importance of understanding Willard’s terminology and philosophical underpinnings to fully appreciate and apply his teachings.

Key Points:

• Enduring Influence: Willard’s teachings continue to shape contemporary Christian thought and practice.
• Holistic Discipleship: His emphasis on a life fully integrated with spiritual disciplines remains a cornerstone of modern Christian formation.
• Continued Relevance: As spiritual formation gains broader acceptance, Willard’s insights remain as pertinent as ever for those seeking deeper spiritual lives.

Notable Quote:
Smith encapsulates Willard’s essence, “He knows it was from the Holy Spirit. It was not him... so he just didn't need to impress people” (21:04).

Final Thoughts

This episode of The SkyePod offers a profound exploration of spiritual formation through the lens of James Ryan Smith’s experiences and his interactions with Dallas Willard. Listeners gain valuable insights into the challenges and triumphs of integrating deep spiritual practices within modern Christianity, underscored by the enduring wisdom of one of its most influential thinkers.