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- [00:00]
Opening/Closing Narrator
So you don't shine the devil with your rock and roll on Knows that country music's gonna save your soul the devil runs his grooving them rhythm and blues that sound, it's gonna get you started in the air.
- [00:20]
Damon Bolte
Welcome back to the Speakeasy. I'm Damon Bolte.
- [00:23]
Greg Benson
And I'm Greg Benson. And welcome back, Damon. It's good to have you, man. How you been?
- [00:27]
Damon Bolte
I've been well. Yeah, thanks. Yeah. Taking, taking some weeks off of the show and just trying to play catch up on a bunch of other projects and things and life stuff and.
- [00:40]
Greg Benson
Are you saying that life is difficult these days,
- [00:44]
Damon Bolte
dude? Okay, so I got a new beat.
- [00:48]
Greg Benson
This feels like a yes.
- [00:50]
Damon Bolte
So I, I, Something terrible happened in this sounds like total, like first class problems. I, I traded in my vehicle for a, for a fancy suv that's diesel.
- [01:05]
Robbie Dow
Nice.
- [01:05]
Damon Bolte
So not real.
- [01:06]
Greg Benson
That ain't cheap these days, huh?
- [01:08]
Damon Bolte
Dude, in California, it's almost $9 a gallon.
- [01:12]
Greg Benson
Jesus Christ.
- [01:14]
Damon Bolte
You know, with all the that's going on in the world, I'm just like, God damn. I didn't even think about it when I was getting it, but it's pretty cool. Anyway, you didn't think that we were
- [01:23]
Greg Benson
going to get at a pointless war in Iran like 8 weeks ago? Come on, man. Someone on ki saw that coming. I don't know why the rest of us did. Well, that all sucks. That all sucks. But you want to hear some good news? You want to hear a good innovation I heard of recently?
- [01:36]
Damon Bolte
Sure.
- [01:37]
Greg Benson
There is a spot in Verona, Italy that is trying this new thing.
- [01:42]
Damon Bolte
Verona.
- [01:43]
Greg Benson
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And fair Verona, as I've heard it called, Fair Verona, right where we lay our scene. They're inviting people to put their phones in a box that goes away. It is a locked box. You don't get to touch it during the meal. And if you do that, they reward you with a free bottle of wine, which I think is genius number one, because we're all, we're all addicted to these stupid fucking things. So, like, that is, you know, anytime you have a forced incentive to part with it and enjoy the company around you is great. I also kind of love the fact that it's not just we invite you to do this. It's like, hey, if you do this, we'll give you this free bottle of wine. It creates that nice Pavlovian association between saying goodbye to your phone for the next two hours and getting this wonderful free thing. Exactly. Riverside. I don't know why. Subscribe to the YouTube if you want to see the weird thing that I just did gave me a weird birthday party here. But, yeah, I think it's a genius idea. I read this article and I was like, I am going to do this the next time I hang out with my family. Sounds great. I don't know. What about you?
- [02:48]
Damon Bolte
I love that. I mean, it reminds me of when we put the cell phone scrambler in the bar at Prime Meat so people couldn't use their phones. But. But incentivizing with. Not just a quiet good time with strangers. Some wine also. It's great on the business end, too, because I'm sure, you know, wine in Italy or in France, the stuff that we get here, there's so many import fees and taxes and all that stuff, and it's basically a gesture that's free for them.
- [03:17]
Greg Benson
You know, the greatest bottle of wine I've ever tasted was in Tuscany, and it cost €2. Yeah, it was so good.
- [03:23]
Damon Bolte
Hey, so I was gonna ask. Is that. Was that like an April Fool's joke or.
- [03:27]
Greg Benson
I'm pretty sure this was real. I actually didn't check and see if it came out on April 1st. Now I'm gonna have to go back and check and see if it's not real. I'm sure there are lots of places that are gonna start doing this because this sounds like a lovely idea, and frankly, I don't know. Man, this must be what smoking was like in the 1960s when all those studies started coming out that it's. It turns out it's really bad for you. And I think as a society, all. Everyone must have been like, oh, fuck, this isn't good. Oh, we've been doing this since I was 12 years old. You know, it's kind of the. I feel like we're kind of in a. Same cultural moment here. So anything that can help us kind of break that addictive cycle, I'm for.
- [04:04]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, I think. I do think cigarettes are making a comeback, though. I mean, I think that the. The vape and. Or the douche flute, you know, I think that has taken a. That has taken a hit. And people are wanting to. You know, people are wanting to smoke analog. You know, they're wanting to get back to. Times are hard. I mean, people are like. People are like, oh, yeah, you should. You shouldn't smoke. You shouldn't smoke. You know, you shouldn't do this. And they're like, well, you know, news. Isn't that great.
- [04:32]
Greg Benson
Yeah, you know what?
- [04:34]
Damon Bolte
Sure.
- [04:35]
Greg Benson
Sure. Why not? Cigarettes are cool again. Drinking isn't cool. I don't know. What's cool anymore. But you know who is cool? The guy whose voice we've been hearing for the last few minutes here. He is the former beverage director of a little bar here in Brooklyn that you might have heard of called Grand Army. And now he's the owner and the beverage director of a bar called Bespoke in Wilmington, North Carolina. We got Robbie Dow. Robbie, thanks for being here, man.
- [04:58]
Robbie Dow
Thanks for having me. Pumped to be here. Longtime listener, first time caller.
- [05:04]
Greg Benson
So have you taken up smoking or are you still, you know, on the, on that, that health. Health nut trend of not doing it?
- [05:11]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, you know, I, you know, in celebratory fashion, you know, with buds sometimes, you know, not all the time, but you know, I can't say, can't say. I don't from time to time, you know, times are hard.
- [05:25]
Greg Benson
We all know if you've been drinking, it doesn't count. I'm pretty sure that's right. Surgeon general's official stance these days.
- [05:32]
Damon Bolte
That's exactly why I haven't been smoking for 30 years.
- [05:38]
Robbie Dow
But on the point of before I forgot, you were mentioning the technology stuff in the news and in bar news kind of with phones and things like that. And I know we're going to get into it here in a second, but you know, Bespoke being an all day concept, we do have people there during the day on laptops and tablets and then so handling the transition into dark, sexy bar vibes, we have a like strict 6pm cutoff of laptops and tablets.
- [06:10]
Damon Bolte
Oh, cool.
- [06:11]
Robbie Dow
Which is obviously something not all bars have to deal with, but just keeping that transition lean, we do have that as like a policy so that people don't.
- [06:21]
Damon Bolte
Well, that's a pretty late cutoff time too.
- [06:23]
Robbie Dow
Yeah. I mean that's super fast. That's super.
- [06:25]
Damon Bolte
It really is.
- [06:26]
Robbie Dow
Yeah.
- [06:27]
Greg Benson
And then you give them a grace period until 6:15 when you turn on the electromagnet and just permanently destroy all of their devices. So being very polite about it.
- [06:35]
Robbie Dow
Yeah. And we give them a heads up. You know, we try by like 5:30, like, hey, you know, just so you know, we do no screens. No screens going into the nighttime. But yeah, you know, one of the cool things about it being a daytime concept is we do have kind of that after work congregating business. Negroni crowd. So.
- [06:54]
Damon Bolte
Which is cool. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's the thing. So the listeners know, I've actually, I've been to Bespoke. I got to go there kind of early, I guess. Pretty early on, right, Robby?
- [07:08]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, I Would say that was like. Yeah, we had probably been open for a few months at that time.
- [07:13]
Damon Bolte
Right. And yes, in the show notes, Greg, I believe you had a question for me.
- [07:22]
Greg Benson
Oh, well, I just wanted to ask you because you said your review and I'm not blowing smoke up your ass just because you're in the room here. Robbie. Damon actually called Bespoke a perfect bar. So I want to get into the whole, you know, day to night look thing that you've got going on, but I want to get the overview from an actual patron, not a paid spokesperson, just a fan, Damon Bolte on what kind of the. The concept he saw there is and then get your, you know, your take on what you were building there. So.
- [07:51]
Robbie Dow
Yeah.
- [07:51]
Greg Benson
Damon, what, what made it. This is, I guess a question for you. What made it a perfect bar?
- [07:56]
Damon Bolte
You know, I, I love, I love Amari and I love vintage spirits and I, and I just love a bar that like, is warm and inviting and like it. Dude, the drinks are perfect. Like the, the back bar is amazing. Just the, the. The set, like the architecture of the place and like the way that some of the stuff is hidden, like the unsexy stuff, like a panel of light switches or you know, like the stuff that you try to hide a lot of times or you don't. Or a lot of people don't in a bar where it's kind of like, yeah, if you're really like, if you got your eyes up on everything. Which I tend to do that because it's the business we're in and. Yeah. And all that. So like, you know, I'll notice those things where I'm like, how would I have fixed that problem visually? Or like, where would I have put this thing instead of right there? Or like, you know, what's the flow of this room? Like bathrooms, Big, big thing, you know?
- [08:57]
Greg Benson
You know.
- [08:57]
Damon Bolte
And then he takes me back in the kind of the office area and they've got a Klein belt machine and a band saw. And I'm like, yeah, like every, every other thing that he shows me, I'm like, God damn it, this is awesome. You walk in and you're immediately comfortable. And yeah, they're like, we were there during the earlier part of the day. You got people in there hanging out, like on their laptops. But you know, it wasn't like I didn't hear anyone like doing the thing, like speakerphone, like, we gotta go down. What are you doing afterwards?
- [09:30]
Greg Benson
You know, that's what the electromagnets for, man. That's why that's why they have I
- [09:34]
Robbie Dow
gotta get one of these.
- [09:35]
Greg Benson
So anyway, I just endlessly useful for that. And like, you know that stupid fork that you drop behind the lowboy, it works for that too. It's such a multi purpose tool.
- [09:45]
Damon Bolte
You wouldn't drop a fork behind the lowboy though, because it's so. Everything's fit perfectly. There's no room to trap anything behind. It's just great. Anyway, it's an awesome bar and you know, Amari and kind of aperitivo focused.
- [09:59]
Robbie Dow
It's just.
- [10:00]
Damon Bolte
Yeah, it's like all the things that I like anyway done to perfection in one space. That's all.
- [10:08]
Greg Benson
Councilman, your rebuttal?
- [10:12]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, no, I. I think that was well said. Obviously I'm biased and love the. Love the space and yeah, you know, the. The whole setup, maybe to my own detriment, you know, just obsessed over the. The details and the height of the bar top, the height of equipment. And I think, you know, as all of us know that have worked behind a bar, you go to so many places that aren't ergonomically set up or you know, just like the bar is there and then you're like, okay, the bar is here. Now we have to buy equipment. So they just buy equip. Like gotta buy rails. You go buy rails to fit around it. But I kind of went the back way and you know, working with contractors and you know, setting up the rails in these distances and they were like, you know, it would be a lot easier, you know, because we. We did our. Our rails are all dremeled into the wood and like flat right in. In. In like recessed into the wood instead of just an attachment bolt on so that it's like one continuation of a countertop. And they were like, you know, we could just not do that and do this. And I. I mean the. The thing was, is that I was like more willing to be flexible on you know, the H Vac and this. But I was like, you know, the. The sinks, the rinsers, the bar top, the grates. I was like, I'm. I'm not. Not compromising there. So. Yeah, it was. It was really cool. And you know, Damon, when he visited too, I'm sure he saw. I mean there's a ton of grand army in that space. There's a ton of, you know, other bars in that space. You know, elements of things. I mean a lot of people come into Bespoke and say this is the most New York place I've felt like outside of New York. So I mean I guess I take that as, like, a compliment. You know, New York is my second home forever, so I love that. But, yeah, I would say the. The details. The details of the space are really special. But it's. When you walk in, it's meant to very much be an approachable neighborhood joint, neighborhood watering hole.
- [12:08]
Damon Bolte
That's. To me, there. There are some things that I want to point out, like. Like. Or to piggyback on really, like the. The drain rail, like, being recessed into the bar top. Those are the things that, like, you know, I've done a lot of consulting for bars and restaurants, breweries and stuff like that. And like, you know, when you start working with the general contractors or you're working with a budget first, that's your. Your first hurdle. But then a lot of the people who design spaces are not, like, pretty much all of them. None of them are bartenders or chefs, you know, and, like, you're like, who's going to be working here? And, like, who should really be consulting on this project? Someone who actually does this as a job, you know, like, understanding where ice walls go or just all like your
- [12:55]
Robbie Dow
dishwasher and just like, maybe dumb sink, dishwasher.
- [12:58]
Damon Bolte
All the things, you know, and it's the. The kind of unsexy stuff, you know, when you think about, like, romanticizing the idea of, like, a restaurant or bar, winery, any of those kinds of businesses, any business, really. It's like. And, you know, there are certain things that New York will have you do based on, like you said, like the space itself and.
- [13:19]
Robbie Dow
And lack of space.
- [13:21]
Damon Bolte
Exactly, exactly. And that's kind of like your space ends up being, like, I've said this more recently, but your. Your actual physical space ends up being kind of like your most important business partner. Because if the space isn't comfortable, there are certain bars that. That have been. That have come and gone in New York City that we've all been to where it was like.
- [13:43]
Robbie Dow
It's like.
- [13:43]
Damon Bolte
It's got like a big name behind it or big names behind it. It's got some capital, but, man, they got this. This spot that, like, nev. There was one. There was one bar I got behind. There was 18 inches of clearance from the back bar to where you could stand, to where the. The. The doors. The lowboy doors couldn't even open all the way. You know, they would hit the ice walls. So, you know, especially with, like, with your spot, there is this beautiful, like, kind of open space. There are some imperfections, like, in the tile work on the floor, but I would almost say that they're intentional, you know, because they're so perfectly imperfect.
- [14:19]
Greg Benson
Well, I mean, yeah, it's the whole thing that you were talking about. It's like I think if I see a perfectly maintained tile floor at a place, I actually do feel like, was this designed by an AI, but like the, it's the, it's the little, it's the little things that tell you that this is an actual lived in space. And this, this all kind of adds up to the sort of ephemeral quality of identity which I know, Robbie, you and I were talking about. Talking about because you named a number of things when we were chatting before the show as part of the identity of Bespoke, including, and I'm quoting you here, the coldest beer in town. So what was your process for like building this?
- [14:56]
Robbie Dow
So I guess a little precursor to that. I was very fortunate to work in what I consider to be. And we can talk a little bit more about this further, but what I consider to be two of America's like top neighborhood bar atmospheres in the Crinkleton, the original Crinkleton and Chapel Hill and also Grand Army. And you know, I think we came from, you know, a history with like cocktails and cocktail revival where it was very more speakeasy esque, more dark, hidden, exclusive vibe. And both of these places that I mentioned that I had the privilege of working at were very much, you know, right on the corner, right, accessible to the public, open, airy, breezy windows, things like that. So that was always a huge part of my interest as a consumer, but also what I wanted to do with the bar here in Wilmington. So yeah, Bespoke is a cool all day concept neighborhood bar that has a heavy influence of bitter Italian drinking culture. Really robust draft cocktail program, full ice program, you know, freezers in each. Well, so you're getting frozen glassware at all times. You know, really, really, really just cool all around spot. And then we're a coffee, coffee shop during the day or your neighbor neighborhood bar and coffee shop during the day. So.
- [16:31]
Damon Bolte
Well, it really is like very like European in that way. Right, because like your, your cafes are bars, your bars are cafes, 100% kind of thing. So.
- [16:39]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, 100, 100. And you know, you're mentioning of like the Budweiser and things like that is, you know, I very much wanted to have some of those traditions of that all day drinking culture, Bitter light, Spritzee, Amari, that world. But also like we're very much, you know, in the way that grand army was. We're very much an American bar and American neighborhood bar, which I think is like, one of the most beautiful parts of, like, American bar culture, is like, you know, really have some great historic bars, historic bar culture, approachable spots, fun spots. And, yeah, you know, it's. You don't have to be in either camp. You know, you can kind of embrace the qualities of both. So, you know, I think that that is one of the things, like the. The frosty mug, the. The coldest Budweiser in town, you know, is like a huge part of our program. And, like, we're very much a cocktail bar, and we're really serious, but we sell a bunch of really, really cold Budweiser that when you get it, there's a little.
- [17:43]
Greg Benson
Yeah.
- [17:44]
Robbie Dow
On the top. I mean, it's a thoroughly frosted mug. We have glycol lines running at 31. So the Budweiser is, like, literally as close as it cold as it can go without freezing. Shout out. Draft choice in New York City came down to Wilmington to do the install. And.
- [18:01]
Damon Bolte
Yeah.
- [18:01]
Robbie Dow
You know, just trying to. Trying to combine both worlds and.
- [18:07]
Damon Bolte
Yeah.
- [18:08]
Robbie Dow
You know, try to achieve that kind of. I know you hear it sometimes here and there, but kind of that highbrow, lowbrow intersection, you know, of. What we're trying to do is keep. Keep the menu fun, light, nostalgic, approachable, keep the venue warming and comfortable to anyone, regardless of their experience in drinking. And behind the scenes, though, is very serious and very particular.
- [18:33]
Damon Bolte
Yeah, to me, the way. The way I thought about it and the way I think about it, everything you look at, you're just kind of like, how can we make this the best possible way possible? Right? You know, like, yeah, we're gonna have Budweiser on tap. Let's make it fucking, like, almost frozen, like.
- [18:51]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, like.
- [18:51]
Damon Bolte
Yeah, I know there's a big mug. What do you want your experience to be like? And the only way you can get that is to have someone experienced in the bar world that understands both. I say that we're all professional drinkers because we're really. We're really good at it and we take it seriously. In diners, I would say, too. But you have to have someone like that running the. The show to, like, really capture those. Those areas and then turn it up to 11, you know, and, like, make it just, like, the most badass thing you could do possible. And that's just one. I feel like some of those things get swept in or they just get overlooked again. You know, it's like. It's again, like, you said it's all in the details. And just kind of like figuring out, like, if we're gonna do this thing, like, let's like, lean in so hard on it. And I know we're talking about Budweiser on tap right now.
- [19:45]
Greg Benson
Well, I mean, it's. It's almost to me, like what the Budweiser on tap symbolizes. Right. Like, I got to try a little bit. Fatia Bruto did a in house Amaro for Peter Luger Steakhouse here in Brooklyn. I don't know if you guys saw this Lugermeister. Yeah, yeah, I got to try a little bit of it last night. It's fucking great. You know what? I wanted to cleanse all of that, like, kind of sweet, very complex flavor off my palate. After I was done, I was like, man, really, just a nice, frosty. I'm more of a Miller High Life man myself. But something like that, to really kind of cleanse the palate, which I would almost. And, Robbie, I want to hear your take on this. I would almost push back on the fact that that's high low, because to me, high low is kind of like we're gonna do a super fancy, like, hypnotic and coke. Nothing against that, but this is more an acknowledgement of the fact that human beings contain multitudes. And it's possible to want, in one breath, this extremely esoteric, very flavorful, very regional Amaro. And in the next breath be like, all right, it's Corona time. You know, I'm going to find my beach.
- [20:50]
Damon Bolte
What. What do you.
- [20:51]
Greg Benson
What do you think about that?
- [20:52]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, no, totally. And I. And I totally. I totally hear what you're saying. Yeah. I could see the extreme of high loud, highbrow, low brow being a little bit more specific like that. But, yeah, you know, I think that. I think that it really keeps things, you know, covering a wide range of guests, too. You know, when. When you do that. And I know that there's like these big, you know, arguments of, like, who pulls the best Guinness? Who pulls the best Guinness in New York City? I'm like, man, who pulls the best Budweiser? Who wants to step up and pull a better Budweiser than me? You know, I don't think it's out there. And, you know, Budweiser. Budweiser is one of those things, you know, like, where vessel, you know, changes things to. And, you know, with the source of it, where, you know, high life, we all know better. In a bottle. Yeah, great. In the bottle. I'd rather have it in a bottle than I Can or a draft high life. But Budweiser is way better on tap. And I don't really know. I don't really know why. I don't, I don't have an explanation.
- [21:57]
Damon Bolte
I do, you know, I don't, you
- [21:59]
Robbie Dow
know, maybe Damon specifically for that product, why that one's so much better. But it is very good.
- [22:06]
Greg Benson
If you're hearing the sound of my voice right now, I've got some bad news for you. You are only getting about 60 to 70% of the conversation that we had today with our guest. But if you want to hear the whole thing, you can join us and become a regular on our Patreon. That's right. To hear the rest of the conversation, join us on our Patreon, become one of our regulars, and you'll receive all kinds of perks, including ad free listening, so you won't have to hear us do this again. And in addition to ad free listening and longer shows, you are also going to get cocktail recipes from all of our guests, access to our live monthly hangouts, and a free cocktail kit each and every month from our good friends at Shaker and Spoon. Head over to Patreon and become a regular of the Speakeasy.
- [22:42]
Robbie Dow
We'd love to have you there.
- [22:43]
Damon Bolte
Cheers.
- [22:48]
Greg Benson
I want to kind of circle back to something that we touched on because this fascinates me. So you are a cafe during the day, in a bar at night. And so many people have either wanted to do this concept or tried to do it and found out that it's a lot harder than you would think it would be because it's one of these things that makes logical sense. Right? It's like the existence of aliens. Like, the universe is so vast, they have to be out there. And then you look around, you're like, okay, so, so where are they? It's the same thing. It's like you're paying rent on the space for 24 hours. Whether you're using it during the day or not. Just turn into a coffee shop during the day. Every bar should be doing this. And then you look around and you're like, and yet, and yet there aren't really that many of these. So what is your strategy for succeeding where lots of others have tried and failed?
- [23:41]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, I think that is an awesome question. I think that the, the big thing I think, to think, first of all, if you look at the reason a lot of them fail, and then I'll talk a little bit how I we ended up here is that I think that bar people and coffee people are A little bit siloed in their worlds. And so a lot of times when you see these concepts exist, you have a coffee person who's good at that, who's like, we also want to be a bar and serve this and then. But they don't have that background or they're a bar and they're like, well, we want to serve coffee. And it turns out, well, your coffee program is pretty mid because you don't come from that background. So which is like fine. You know, I mean, you know, people are still trying and I think that that's great. But the way I ended up here was that the space in the spot was a pre existing coffee shop first. So that was, that was something that the community knew was on that corner and we're coming to this spot for. And then I added in the business change hands. I bought the business totally close, rebranded, change of concept and it retained its identity of being open in the morning but then adding the bar program in the evening and I mean, and all day. You know, I mean we. We're home of the 7am Negroni, you know, which I don't think many places. Yeah, the, the current earliest one is 7:28. A guy from Miami stopped in and had two at 7:28. So that's our record currently for.
- [25:20]
Damon Bolte
I'm not from Miami. Wait, I must have been there later.
- [25:26]
Robbie Dow
But yeah, the answer to your question, yeah, the coffee, it was one of those things where like, you know, the. I have a. I have an amazing staff and amazing baristas and I think that's. I think the people. To answer your question is like the, the biggest thing in the world. And we're talking back to like Damon was talking earlier about concepts and consulting and things like that is like, you know, my background is more bar focused and so I was really good at efficiency and setup and I, you know, was able to do a lot for the coffee program, but I haven't had years of reps steaming milk over and over and over and over. You know. So like that's where the two of like, you know, getting proper consulting, talking to the right people, setting it up correctly, I think is a huge, is a huge point. So I think, to answer your question, I think it's hard when people that don't have both backgrounds try to do it. And if you do do that, I think you need to lean in and get the right support.
- [26:25]
Damon Bolte
And.
- [26:26]
Greg Benson
And I've. I've worked exactly one barista shift in my life. It was also, that was also the day that I Put in my two weeks notice at that bar. But one of the interesting things that I found is that it is a very similar practice to bartending in so many overt ways and a very different practice to bartending in so many subtle ways. And you don't realize where those non transferable skills are until you try and do it. So I like your observation that like coffee people and bar people are similar in so many ways that are visible on the surface, but very, very different underneath. You have to like hire specifically for both.
- [27:09]
Robbie Dow
Absolutely, absolutely. And it's been so cool. You know, I think that if you were to talk to our bartenders, you know, a lot of them had some initial stresses, you know, and things about learning, you know, about more about coffee and being put on the put, you know, having pressure put on them to steam milk and do that. Because that's another cool part of our program, you know, is we're not like, oh, coffee during the day, cocktails at night. It's like, no, we have coffee and cocktails during the day and it's a little smaller bar program during the day, a little more robust cough coffee program during the day. And then it kind of flips at night where it's like, we're still, you know, we're still serving coffee all night. Like if somebody, you know, last night we had live jazz. You know, live jazz attracts some people that, you know, want to come in and have a cappuccino and listen to jazz or a tea, like dope. Cool. We do that. And you know, I think another cool thing with this concept is we're very accessible. I mean, I think that some people would be like, you're taking a, you're making people try to drink more. It's like, well, we're also providing a place for people that don't drink to hang out at night. On the alternative, we have people tell us all the time, they're like, you know, I don't feel necessarily comfortable going to a dive bar because I don't drink, you know, or I can't go to so and so bar because I don't drink. But I can come here and get an espresso or in a Guinness. And yeah, so I, I think there's just more to it. But my employees, you know, starting off, I think that they, some of them were a little like, I don't know if I want to do that now. All of them love it and they love being able to like pull a cappuccino like, you know, and we serve, we serve like traditional Cafe Corretto, you know, where we use Maletti in a set. Hell yeah. Into. Into fresh pulled espresso and then a little soda water back. And so, I mean, I think that it's like, it's. I'm really blessed to have some great people.
- [29:05]
Greg Benson
I actually want to hear a little more about Wilmington because we've had a long run of people from, like, very non East Village spots on the show so far this year. A surprising them from North Carolina, which is a stunningly cool state. But I guess I would want to know a little bit about how you feel about the fact that this is an era where one doesn't need to pay Greenwich Village rent in order to have a place like this and have a clientele like that.
- [29:31]
Robbie Dow
Like I mentioned earlier, you know, New York will always, you know, have a huge, huge piece of my heart.
- [29:38]
Greg Benson
But it's like I always say, New York City sucks. So it's a real shame. It's the greatest place on earth.
- [29:43]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, that's. That's pretty. That's pretty awesome. Yeah, I know. It's. It's weird, you know, when you leave. When you leave the hive, you know, the hive mind, you gotta, you know, get just a little bit out of it. It's kind of crazy. I feel like New York's like a functioning organism. And it's. It's. It's amazing. It's a hard place to leave. It was a very, very tough move. And I know Damon can relate to that. Like, you know, getting out of the city and so, I mean, it's the cool. It's the coolest place in the world. I mean, I mean, I. It really is. And you're talking about the people and especially in this business. But, you know, I. I think also kind of like Damon, you know, I came from and grew up in an area that was not like New York City. So I always, you know, I grew up in the Triangle of North Carolina. I grew up north of Hillsborough, not too far from the original Crunkleton, and. But I grew up on an old family farm in the country. No neighborhood, lots of woods, you know, doing all that vibe. So I think that New York always had somewhat of an expiration date to me because I knew that one day I would want space. And I love cars. I want to be able to work on a car. I want to be able to drive cars and do all that for diesel. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Waste. Waste a bunch of money on gas. And, Greg, to kind of fully answer your question about Wilmington, you know, I. When I kind of had that epiphany or, you know, kind of where Damon ended up to were considered, you know, looking elsewhere. You know, I, I was, I knew I wanted to open a bar and, you know, going through Covid and doing all that kind of affirmed that, you know, and we can talk more. Covid. You know, Covid conversation could be its own, you know, documentary at this point about let's, let's not New York. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's not say we know, but yeah, let's just say after all that, you know, I was like, well, maybe I want to open a bar in New York. Started looking in New York. And I was like, well, if I'm looking in New York, I need to consider elsewhere. You know, then was, you know, considering looking at Wilmington, Charleston, Miami, San Juan. I knew I wanted to stay on the East Coast. Like the East Coast. And yeah, weirdly, when I was in New York City, I. I got into surfing at Rockaway. And so that was like a huge thing that I fell in love with while I was in New York and I wanted to keep doing it. And I love ocean culture and seafood and like all the cuisine that comes with that and the lifestyle. So that's a big thing with, with this concept as well. You know, this isn't like, you know, if I were to put us in the same world of kind of some of the other bitter bars, that kind of would do something, you know, places I love, you know, like, like a Dante or a Pisolino, very different. But in that, in that world, bespoke is way more relaxed and the Wilmington consumer is way more relaxed. You know, we have people, you know, coming in to get a Negroni that might have just been fishing or surfing or doing that, but also just people that are also in the working in business, downtown courthouse, all that. So yeah, I think, I think very, very much inspired by Wilmington to keep it the way it is and keep it approachable in neighborhood spot. But I do think bespoke is special and, you know, there's not really much like it, you know, it's way at those places I mentioned are still quite different than. Than Bespoke.
- [33:15]
Greg Benson
You, as we've talked about, have a very Amare aperitif spritz Forward program. And five, 10 years ago that would have made you a very esoteric spot. So I want to kind of take your temperature on this. Given that you are a neighborhood spot, given that you are, as we have discussed, not in the five boroughs, has that trend broken containment out into the mainstream or are there still A lot of explaining you have to do about what Amare are when people sit down at your bar.
- [33:44]
Robbie Dow
Yeah. I think, you know, when you have a concept kind of like this, or I guess anyone that has a concept that is not just we're a bar, but kind of has a touch to it or a direction, you know, it would be. It would be. Still be cool if you were like, oh, we do this thing and we do this, but, like, we just sell vodka sodas like that. You know, that's like something I'm sure that exists in the world and. But, you know, that's not. That's not the case. We're very, very, you know, you know, very full on Amare. And that's, like, what we sell more of than anything. And so I think, for one, I think that just speaks to, you know, how times have changed, maybe to your point of, like, exposure. I think Covid. Not to harp on that, but I mean, more and more people getting exposed to cocktails, making cocktails at home, and just how approachable some of these are just by concept as well as. Well, you know, and like something like a spritz and learning that they can do that and you can be with your friends and, like, you can do that, you know. Now, granted, you can't do it with, you know, you know, 45 psi dispensed the right way and really, you know, all, you know, whatever. But as far as just, like, interest in that and, you know, keeping it approachable. Yeah, man. People, we are not, like. We're selling, like, mostly menu stuff, very bitter, lots of Amaro. We do makeshift flights all the time. And, you know, people are house shot with the Budweiser. We do, like, an Amaro Rusty Nail from the freezer.
- [35:22]
Greg Benson
Nice.
- [35:22]
Robbie Dow
Which is equal parts Scotch, Drambooy, and Sfumato. And just like. So it tastes very much like a Rusty Nail, but it's, like, laced with sfumato vibes. And it is next to a frozen Budweiser and a frozen little shot glass. I mean, it's incredible. So, yeah, I mean, I think just even little things like that for that being the shot and beer, you're getting more and more people exposed. We sell a ton of Negronis on tap. Ton of Negronis on tap. And. Which is really, really cool. So, yeah, I think, you know, I think that there's a trend that more people are drinking bitter, for one. I think that, you know, something like a Negroni, I guess. You know, they're still juicy and they're still big, but I feel like you can have several of those or even two of those. And it just doesn't seem as decadent on the palate as some other things. And it goes well with food. You know, Negronis with dinner can work, you know, Negronis with snacks, Negronis with espresso and then spritz as well, you know, Negronis with Negronis, but also, you know, with all these, like, you know, more spritz, like cocktails. I mean, a little lower abv, you know, so if you're.
- [36:33]
Damon Bolte
Yeah.
- [36:33]
Robbie Dow
You know, having several cocktails and, you know, you're having a few spritzes is just a, you know, just a lighter, lighter drinking experience. It's more like you're having, like, you know, wine or beer, whereas sometimes with cocktails, it's a bigger commitment. Yeah. You know, so.
- [36:49]
Damon Bolte
So.
- [36:49]
Robbie Dow
But they don't lack in flavor because they're bitter and, you know, and they. Because they have some of that. That backbone. And then, you know, depending on how you prepare it, have great acidity or carbonation. So, yeah, it's. I think it's more and more, you know, I feel like Americans are drinking vermouth or drinking Amare, you know, doing these things that are both food friendly, sessionable. You get a lot of the same joy you get out of having a cocktail. I mean, you know, like, when you have vermouth, it's like vermouth's kind of like an Amaro kind of like the OG cocktails, you know, in a way, it's like, you know, on their own. Pretty exciting. Pretty exciting. You know, on the rocks, soda. Pretty exciting, you know, So I think that. I think that much like happened with IPAs years ago, which I think people are drinking less of now. I think that the. Once people get, you know, having a Negroni for the first time, and they're like, that's wild, you know, but then they are like, before you know it, that's their drink. So I think we've gone over the. The crest where, like, I'll see, like, a group of. I mean, seriously, you know, have a group of, like, young 20s cats come in and guys and girls, and they'll all get Negronis and spray all bitter, everything for like a group of six or eight, you know, it's pretty exciting. I think it's a good, good thing happening, so.
- [38:09]
Greg Benson
Oh, yeah, the kids are all right. That's nice to hear.
- [38:12]
Robbie Dow
Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. They. They. It's. They're definitely, you know, an interesting generation, but they're. They're pretty cool.
- [38:19]
Damon Bolte
Well, speaking of Kids, you know, you're, you're the boss at your place. And what's it like for you to you know, be training this next, next generations of bartenders and like what are some of like the lessons that you're trying to instill in them? And you know, like to me it seems like, like I said before, like you go to New York and you learn all these things and you take them with you wherever you go. Are there. Do you have a certain kind of like training program that you kind of mentioned, like kind of cross training with baristas and bartenders? What is there any, any certain things that you've kind of found in the, the kind of creation of bespoke and these, the earlier days here that you might be able to share with us that maybe we could learn from?
- [39:12]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, I think that some of the biggest things for one is like, you know, I think this is obvious in all backgrounds and fields, you know, is hiring, hiring cool people. You know, I think that more, more now than ever. You know, people can go to a lot of bars and get drinks. So it is a people business and taking care of people like you said, walking into a room and making people feel good. So I think guest interaction is a huge one. You can't really teach that. So having like the right, the right people that can handle volume and still do that, you know, that kind, you know, kind of age old stuff that you know, has been around for a while. But as far as training, you know it's, it's definitely, I'm sure for these guys definitely a little more intense than some of the other spots they come from just as far as demands and expectations and things like that. But I think I have had the benefit of I am still behind the bar as an owner and so there is a lot of, you know, I'm, I'm super intense about like tools back, you know, like we. They like jerk with me about stuff like little stuff like that wiping this station that, this, that really, really intense for me and those rules and, and they know that you know that's like a. From day one that was the expectations till the expectation and just doing that there beside them. You know we did have a lot of initial training. We have ongoing training and conversation. But a lot of, A lot of my connection with staff, you know, is just on the clock and working beside them. But you know we have very firm rules, we have a bunch of documents. Of course we talk a lot about round building wise, you know, classic bar stuff. But yeah, you know, I'm really Our program is very set on efficiency in terms of, you know, we're just bar service and. Which I think is a dying art. And I. And one of the things that I took away from the crumpleton, the original crumpleton, I think, is one of the best bars out there at this and, you know, was when I was there is there's no servers. We can be four deep, and it's just bartenders and you are controlling the room, pulling that, doing that. And so it has that kind of almost like dive bar sensation of you have to go up to the bar to get a drink or you do this. But it is cocktail focused, and cocktails are coming out fast. We have a combination of the draft stuff and making stuff, you know, a la minute and pulling some stuff from the freezer, et cetera. So a lot of our training comes into, like, executing timing of like, okay, if you're building three drinks, one shaken, one's a stirred martini and one's on tap, which, you know, which one is being finished, when is the big one. For me, you know, stuff like that was like, the really hard thing to get the, you know, this generation on is like, a lot of the whys of the little stuff of, like, you know, we want the martini to be absolutely as cold as possible, so that's going out this time. Or we want. We. If we have, you know, we're doing all this with a carbonated cocktail. We want that to be filled very close to the end so that the guest is getting this, like, carbonated cocktail. It's gonna, like, cut them. It's so bubbly instead of one that has been sitting for a minute and a half. So. And, yeah, and like I said, with the. The tools going back and things like that is, you know, my. My staff definitely jokes with, like, you know, I'll say, you know, if the. The building is burning and we've got to get out and. Or something crazy is going on, you know, tools have to go back first, and then. Then you can leave, you know, have
- [42:56]
Damon Bolte
they done anything to prank you yet? Like throw your. Your tools into the Klein Bell machine and frozen them into a block of ice?
- [43:04]
Robbie Dow
No, you shouldn't say stuff like this. They're probably. They probably. They would probably love that.
- [43:10]
Greg Benson
Listen, we. We just passed April Fool's Day. They're gonna forget it in the next 362 days.
- [43:15]
Robbie Dow
Like, no, but they. Yeah, we. And we definitely, you know, I think. I think to answer your question, too, is keeping it light and like, you know, having a culture where you're working, you know, and, and you know, like we all want, you know, it's like accountability and conversation, but not like crazy, you know, not like, you know, like, hey, just, you know, remember this or like we're doing this or you know, so that's been the. I think in a park from the space, but also just the attention to detail of what we're doing. And yeah, I think bar, I think bar service is a dying art. And it's a really cool thing when you can command a bar and you're getting your, you know, you're getting your butt kicked in a full room and you're crushing it because you have all these things dialed in. And that was a whole. To Damon's point earlier about the setup is like if you're getting beasted and you know the dishwasher's in a bad place or it's not working right or the dump sink or this and that, like you have to have that stuff set up to make that not a miserable experience. When it gets really busy. Busy.
- [44:17]
Damon Bolte
I would love to see it. When it's crushed at night time, I really encourage everyone out there to visit it. It. It's a cool little town, you know, city. And Wilmington, North Carolina, I did not know, I didn't know I'd never been to North Carolina. And for, for all the years, the 20 years that I lived in New York, I didn't really explore much of the eastern seaboard because I was just working. And that's kind of like the thing. Yeah, you're always getting crushed with work and. But then, you know, go to a place like Wilmington and open your own bar and it's like you're still going to work, but I think your quality of life seems a lot better. You seem, you seem very happy and chill and like. And it's showing in the fact that you've put out this great product and had the time to actually focus on a lot of the smaller details, you know, without having a room full of New Yorkers screaming at you with, you know, 100 bills in their hands trying to get your attention.
- [45:16]
Greg Benson
He's got the chill 20 year olds drinking Negronis in his spot. I like it. Yeah, well, this actually, this tees up our final question pretty well. This is something we always like to ask our guests at the end of the show. Where are you drinking these days? Where else in Wilmington do you like to go and, and have a little cocktail? Ice cold Budweiser, Cortado, what have you?
- [45:35]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, I would say favorite, favorite spot here in Wilmington for a while now. I spend a lot of time at. It's called the Rusty Nail. It is a old school dive here in Wilmington. And it's been around, I want to say, since the 40s or 50s. I mean, it's quite nice, quite old. And it was originally called Beatty's Tavern, but at some point changed hands and was the Rusty Nail and has been since. But it is a super cool spot and their specialty is live blues. So, you know, several nights a week they do blues and it's a big blues stop for a lot of east coast acts or traveling acts, you know, not the, obviously not the bigger ones that are playing at like massive venues. But anybody that would stop, stop at like a smaller, more intimate size spot, they generally will pencil in the Rusty Nail. So they, they do bring in some like really cool acts. But it is also like, you know, divey dive, you know, super old, eclectic pictures of old, like scrappy pictures of B.B. king on the wall. Like, I mean, it's very cool, very cool and old and weird, but like just so, so authentically itself. It's amazing. And yeah, there's not even any low boys, you know, there's just like coolers full of ice on the ground. So your beers are really cold, but they're just coming out of like a igloo cooler.
- [47:08]
Damon Bolte
Do they serve rusty nails there?
- [47:10]
Robbie Dow
They will actually, if you ask. They will, yeah, they will. Yeah.
- [47:15]
Damon Bolte
Well, I think it sounds like you, you have been giving them the homage with your Rosie Nail.
- [47:21]
Robbie Dow
Yes, I did. Yes, indeed.
- [47:22]
Damon Bolte
Somebody's got to do it.
- [47:24]
Robbie Dow
Somebody's, Somebody's got to do it. Shout out, shout out the Rusty Nail, you know. Nice.
- [47:29]
Greg Benson
Awesome, man. Well, hey, this has been great having you on the show. Great getting to hear about this. Great catching up with you. If people wanted to follow along with your exploits, if our listeners wanted to keep up with everything you and Bespoke are doing, where can they find you on this big, beautiful Internet of ours?
- [47:46]
Robbie Dow
Yeah, you can find me on Instagram at the Vodka Artist. Kind of funny. Long story, different podcast. We can kind of break down the origin of that one, but the Vodka Artist there on ig and then you can hit us up anytime@bespoke NC on Instagram as well. So, yeah, and of course, please stop by Come hang.
- [48:11]
Greg Benson
That is going to do it for us this week on the Speakeasy. However, if you still want to fill a little bit more of that cold Budweiser in your soul with Damon and me and Suther, you can become a regular on our Patreon. Our Patreon regulars get all sorts of great perks, including longer shows, ad free shows, cocktail recipes from all of our guests, a free cocktail kit each and every month from our good friends at Shaker and Spoon, and access to our live monthly hangouts. Those are the last Monday of every single month, so be sure to stay tuned for details and if you are a regular, we will see you there. That is also going to do it for us for this season. We're going to take the next couple of weeks off for spring break. Spring break. And we're back in May with some cool people who are opening a cool spot right here in New York City. But as my light is playing me off here in my little studio, that is going to do it for us this week. So until next time, Cheers, everybody.
- [49:05]
Robbie Dow
Cheers.
- [49:06]
Damon Bolte
Tutto pasa, tuto pasa.
- [49:08]
Opening/Closing Narrator
So you don't shine the devil with your rock and roll on Knows that country music's gonna save your soul the devil runs his grooving that rhythm and blows that sail it's gonna get you sun in the air.
- [49:33]
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