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The Speed of Culture Podcast
Master Class: How Mastercard is building for a world where AI makes the decisions
00:33:52
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- [00:02]
Matt Britton
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Matt Britton
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Rustam Dastore
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- [01:34]
Rustam Dastore
I remember telling my boss it'll be
- [01:37]
Matt Britton
good for the brand when leads were slow.
- [01:40]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah, it it wasn't.
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- [01:56]
Rustam Dastore
During World War II, the Allies flew this bomber called the B17. Very successful. They made about 12,000 of them. 8,000 came home. 4,000 never returned tragically last in combat. So the 8,000 that came home. Researchers plotted bullet holes on the fuselage and wings and tail and said, these are the places most likely to get hit. We should reinforce them. And that sounded logical until one person said, wait a second, that doesn't make sense. Because these planes came back home, we should be reinforcing the places that were not hit because, you know, the ones that went down, that's where they took the hits. And I feel AI and marketing that analogy holds True. What I'm seeing today is a lot of reinforcing what works, and that's a good thing. But I think the real opportunity for marketing is what we couldn't do pre AI.
- [02:46]
Matt Britton
To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, Founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Culture. We are live in Vegas here at the Speed of Culture podcast. And today we are thrilled to welcome my friend Rustom Dastore, the EVP head of Marketing and Communications Americas at mastercard. Rustam continues to help mastercard stay culturally relevant more recently with its can winning Gaga campaign and its leadership across sports, music and experience driven marketing. Rustam, so great to see you here in Vegas.
- [03:28]
Rustam Dastore
Likewise. Thanks for having me.
- [03:29]
Matt Britton
Yeah, absolutely. It's such a great way to start off the year, being here at ces. Just being here and part of the energy obviously gets you so motivated to dive into the year. Are there specific things here that you're particularly excited about?
- [03:42]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah, tons. You know, I've started realizing that marketing is as much about technology as anything else.
- [03:48]
Matt Britton
Yeah.
- [03:48]
Rustam Dastore
Today you can't sort of separate marketing from technology, marketing from data. So what better place to kick the year off? You know, first week you're here in Vegas, Consumer Electronics show, and just get a sense of what's out there and what can inspire us to do cool things this year, next year and onwards.
- [04:04]
Matt Britton
And of course, when you talk about marketing and technology, you can't put a sentence out there without mentioning the letters A and I.
- [04:10]
Rustam Dastore
That's right.
- [04:11]
Matt Britton
So I would love to hear what your take is in terms of how AI has evolved. We spoke about six months ago and it's only gotten more, you know, central to the marketing framework. Moving forward, what is your overall take on where AI is today, here in 2026, in terms of the way brands should be thinking about marketing and where you think it's headed?
- [04:31]
Rustam Dastore
Look, it's a super exciting moment for marketers and marketing and for brands because we're at this pivotal moment where once again, everything's going to change. Yeah. It's not an exaggeration to say that the last time we had this moment was like 25 years ago with the digital revolution happening. Right. It's interesting to hear the conversations around the marketing community. It's a lot about workforce flow, automation, process improvement, efficiency, which I think is great. But I do Think there's a risk that we're not seeing the forest for the trees. Okay, so let's take a step outside the category and then come back in. Sure. Have you heard of this concept called survivorship bias?
- [05:08]
Matt Britton
Vaguely.
- [05:09]
Rustam Dastore
Vaguely.
- [05:09]
Matt Britton
I vaguely remember us speaking about it.
- [05:11]
Rustam Dastore
Sure. So let me tell you a little and unpack it a little bit for you in the audience. Survivorship bias is a concept that came out of World War II. So during World War II, the Allies flew this bomber called the B17. Very successful. They made about 12,000 of them. Between 1936 and 1945, 8,000 came home. 4,000 never returned, tragically lost in combat. So the 8,000 that came home, researchers plotted bullet holes on the fuselage and wings and tail and said, these are the places most likely to get hit. We should reinforce them. And that sounded logical until one person said, wait a second. That doesn't make sense. Because these planes came back home, we should be reinforcing the places that were not hit because, you know, the ones that went down, that's where they took the hits. And I feel AI and marketing, that analogy holds true. What I'm seeing today is a lot of reinforcing what works. We know copywriting works. We know art direction works. We know market research works. Let's just automate it, make it more efficient, which is an end in itself, and that's a good thing. But I think the real opportunity for marketing is what we couldn't do pre AI. What AI will allow us to now do that we could not.
- [06:23]
Matt Britton
The blue ocean, so to speak.
- [06:25]
Rustam Dastore
So to speak. Right. So we don't want to get trapped in this survivorship bias moment. We want to start thinking about what can we now do that we could never do in the past? And I think that's where the game really is.
- [06:37]
Matt Britton
So how do you, as a leader, get your teams to think differently? Because you're right, we are sort of in this hamster wheel, if you will, to continue to optimize and look at what's working. But to zoom outside that and say, wow, what are the completely new possibilities AI can unlock? I would imagine it takes a new way of thinking and a new way of leading.
- [06:56]
Rustam Dastore
It does indeed. To your point, is absolutely spot on. It takes a new way of thinking because for me, where marketing adds real value to an organization is that we're closest to the consumer.
- [07:05]
Matt Britton
Right.
- [07:06]
Rustam Dastore
We're the eyes, years sight of the company in the outside world. Today, your cell phone probably knows more about you as a consumer than your wife and kids do.
- [07:16]
Matt Britton
Right.
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Rustam Dastore
There's just so much data available. Marketers should really be able to harness these data streams to get signals, bring them into the company and then have those signals shape product development, pricing, loyalty and of course, selling. We could not do this pre AI because when you've got a scale business like we have, there are just too many people with too many individual personalized journeys that we could turn those into identifiable signals that could drive business outcomes.
- [07:46]
Matt Britton
And personalization is really a huge unlock there.
- [07:48]
Rustam Dastore
Personalization for sure. But more than personalization to me it's about hyper relevance.
- [07:52]
Matt Britton
Right, right.
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Rustam Dastore
I can personalize for you and yet miss the boat because I'm not relevant. Right. So what relevance does and AI can help with is making it very, very motivating for you to take a course of action that I want you to take. So I think that's a step change in the way marketers have to think and act. And I think AI can really make that big unlock that we haven't been able to do before.
- [08:16]
Matt Britton
So where does the magic happen? So say you have access to all these signals on a consumer, on Mary Smith, who lives in Chicago. Right. So you have all these signals. You're right. Mobile device is a great source of it. How do you make sure that the application of those signals aren't just personalization but actually do unlock relevance?
- [08:36]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah, look, what is relevance firstly? Right. Relevance is location, relevance is mood, relevance is need. So you have now multiple data sets that give you clues about time too. Time is another one, money is another one. But the reality is in some cases you have first party data, in some cases you don't have first party data. But what AI can allow you to do is start passing out data sets, aggregating data sets, and out of that, helping you build structures, systems, practices, campaigns that are far more motivating than what we have today. We're also able to test and learn and move in a very agile manner than ever before. So for instance, 24 hours ago I was in New York. Today I'm in Vegas. The weather in New York was cold and snowy. The weather here is dry and slightly warmer. Now that is a contextual difference that a marketer would not know about me in the classical traditional sense. But looking at AI data streams and where I am and what I'm doing, you can instantly cater to my need here today relative to what it was 24 hours ago and what it would be 24 hours from now. That is relevance. That is what marketing now has to move towards.
- [09:46]
Matt Britton
Yeah.
- [09:46]
Rustam Dastore
So that's, I think the difference that we now have to start teasing out.
- [09:50]
Matt Britton
And obviously a big part of that approach at Unlock is creativity. And there's so much talk about what the future of creativity looks like in the age of AI. Because of course, if I wanted to have a bunch of dancing pigs out there in front of the Bellagio fountain, I don't have to figure out how to have the right shot, so to speak. I just have to have the idea and I can prompt it and I can see it and I can optimize. And that's different than what creative used to meant because it used to be as much about how to solve the problem as it is about identifying the problem to be solved. By now I think it's much more the latter.
- [10:22]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah, look, technology is an incredible competitive advantage until your competitor has it too, right? So if you and I are sitting here today, you've got technology assisting you and I don't, I'm in trouble. You're going to win. But once I get the same technology, then it comes back to humanity. Then we go full circle and come back to the old ways of doing things, which is how do I out think, outcompete out act you? I don't think this is ever going to go away. So there's a lot of talk about whether humanity just disappears in an AI enabled world. I don't believe that for a very simple reason that human beings are wired for human connection. We create all these complex connections amongst ourselves, right? Language, religion, marriage, nationalism to bind us together. I don't think AI is going to unbundle any or all of that. So I think once the technology becomes table stakes and everyone has it, we're
- [11:15]
Matt Britton
already basically there, right?
- [11:16]
Rustam Dastore
We're basically there. It's the new pen or the new tool. And now we've got to be practitioners at using that in more creative ways. So I'm not of the opinion that humanity would just disappear.
- [11:28]
Matt Britton
Well, that's good because I like spending time with people like you. So we're kicking off the year and if you are going to set an organization that can take advantage of this and lean into vanity, what are some of the skill sets, especially with some of the younger marketers that you bring on your team, that you really look for as people, that you can really gain conviction that these are people, I'm going to make bets on that I can future proof my business moving forward.
- [11:50]
Rustam Dastore
Look, we started talking about this a few minutes ago that we're at this pivotal juncture, right? It is not an exaggeration to say the world five years, ten years from now will look very, very different. We don't know exactly what that AI enabled world will look like. What we do have some certainty about is to succeed with AI, you've got to be able to succeed with data. So for young people today to really understand data is critical.
- [12:14]
Matt Britton
How it's collected, couldn't agree more.
- [12:15]
Rustam Dastore
How it's sorted, how it's stored, how it's deployed, what it enables. If you're a young person looking to get into marketing, or anything for that matter, at this point in time, learn how data works. That would be my advice.
- [12:29]
Matt Britton
And of course, in your role leading marketing at mastercard, you were in a very envious role when it comes to data. We'd love to talk a little bit about MasterCard, its business model and how you're leveraging some of these trends and tools that we're talking about to really drive the brand and business forward.
- [12:45]
Rustam Dastore
So we don't hold any first party data, that stays with the bank. I always have to start off with that caveat. What we see is data in aggregate and data anonymized. We process about 150 billion transactions a year, so we have a great depth of aggregated anonymized. And that data allows you to see trends, it allows you to see spending patterns, it tells you what the health of the economy is, it tells you where consumer spending is going, what segments in society are spending more or less, how corridor spending is working. So AI can only help make that sharper and then help businesses that leverage that data smarter in how they go to market.
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Matt Britton
Got it.
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Rustam Dastore
So that is our view with how we treat data.
- [13:26]
Matt Britton
So based upon that, what are some of the things that aggregated data has uncovered that has led you to kind of make bets in certain areas, especially when it comes to injecting the MasterCard brand into consumer culture.
- [13:39]
Rustam Dastore
So one of the trends we've seen post Covid is a higher propensity for affluent people to spend. So that then shapes product portfolios. So there are more affluent products. Now that issuing banks, whether ours or competitors, are issuing out there, those propositions have become more meaningful, more expensive too.
- [13:56]
Matt Britton
For the consumer, the annual fees are more expensive, bigger rewards.
- [13:59]
Rustam Dastore
That's right. And the reward structure is commensurate with the fee increase.
- [14:02]
Matt Britton
Yeah.
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Rustam Dastore
What we're also seeing is that people are cash rich, time starved. So even the benefits evolution that's happening on card products, etc. Is more towards time saving the affluent consumer. For the affluent consumer at the base of the pyramid, at the more everyday spend Level, you're just seeing more ways to pay. You're seeing more propensity with the likes of an Apple Card or an Apple Pay. You're seeing more contactless usage, you're seeing more cards on file, you're seeing more e commerce spending. So these are all things that then shape how we as a business and we as a marketing organization evolve our processes and practices.
- [14:37]
Matt Britton
I mean, it's interesting. Is that a good thing for the MasterCard business model that you have more ways to pay? Because it used to be you just wanted your card in someone's wallet, but now that's really not really the balance you're trying to win.
- [14:48]
Rustam Dastore
For us, the more ways to pay the better. As long as the payment is a digital payment, anything that gets you away from cash is a good thing for us. And remember, consumer payments is only one element of our business. Another massive element of our business is commercial payments, money movement, wire transfer, small business enablement, cybersecurity data and analytics. So we look at the entire value exchange between how people get paid and pay and try and find where is our role in this in making it safer, simpler, smoother.
- [15:18]
Matt Britton
Right. One thing you talked about was that especially the affluent consumer, their cash rich and time starved and one place they are spending their discretionary expenditures are is experiences. And we've seen a huge experience boom post Covid. And I know that MasterCard has really leaned into.
- [15:34]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah.
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Matt Britton
Experiences under the priceless banner of the brand. Why are experiences something that continues to be so important for the MasterCard brand? And what are some of the areas that you think have been really effective in terms of consumer passion points?
- [15:46]
Rustam Dastore
Sure. So look, experiential marketing is something we've been doing for a while now. What we found is that traditional advertising sort of had its moment and then the efficacy of it started declining.
- [15:56]
Matt Britton
Right.
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Rustam Dastore
So you were buying a lot of media, you were communicating a lot, but nobody was listening. When you go to experiential marketing, you're giving people access to something that's rare for them. We talked about the Gaga campaign the last time we were together. It's easy to buy a ticket to a Gaga concert, but there's no way you could get in a Gaga video. I mean, that's only something that we can unlock for you. Now we can only do that for about 30 or 40 people. But when you take those 30 or 40 experiences and use social media to communicate them, the power of the brand then becomes available to a lot more people.
- [16:28]
Matt Britton
Yeah, it's a storytelling playbook that's Right.
- [16:30]
Rustam Dastore
And people sort of start seeing themselves in your journey and in your brand and say, okay, they did that for that person, they could do something else for me. So how do I now participate with the brand, engage the brand and make available those experiences that they're offering and
- [16:44]
Matt Britton
some of the experiences that you lean into. You mentioned Gaga. So obviously it's music. Sports.
- [16:48]
Rustam Dastore
Sports is a massive one.
- [16:49]
Matt Britton
And why is that continue to grow and become so important for Ms. Look,
- [16:53]
Rustam Dastore
it's no secret that media has fragmented massively over the years. We went from four networks on TV to cable, which led to fragmentation, deregulation of radio, more fragmentation, the Internet, social media, streaming. Today the media is so fragmented and polarized that for a marketer it is extremely challenging to operate multiple pieces of content, multiple media plans, attribution models, brand safety. But the world of sports has gone in the opposite direction. More consolidation. Whether it's basketball, baseball, football and Formula one, they've really sort of taken control of their ecosystems. So distribution rights, broadcast rights, licensing, merchandising, fan experience. So real scale, scale and vertical integration and common data streams so you can follow a consumer very accurately from one element to the other, one channel to the other, and build on that engagement that you've got. So I can't reinforce how important a through line of data is to anything market.
- [17:55]
Matt Britton
It's not just slapping your logo at the stadium or not at all. That's what it used to be.
- [17:59]
Rustam Dastore
It used to be and for many years that was great, it worked very well. But today you want to be a lot more efficient with your dollar and you want to be a lot more pointed with how you deploy it.
- [18:09]
Matt Britton
We'll be right back with the speed of culture after a few words from our sponsors.
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- [20:14]
Matt Britton
I also think in sports, the athlete now has the opportunity to become a storyteller in their own right. For sure. When I was growing up, we just had to wait until they were on TV on Sunday to watch Magic Johnson play basketball. But now you can follow an Anthony Edwards, you can follow you know of Victor Wembanyama, NBA star on Twitter and you can see what they post and you actually see them walking into the arena and what they're wearing, and that becomes a great palette for storytelling.
- [20:40]
Rustam Dastore
So we work with Lando Norris, who's the winner of the Formula one Driver championship last year. He's both a social influencer as much as he's a performing sportsman.
- [20:49]
Matt Britton
Right.
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Rustam Dastore
He's got about 10 million followers on social media, and everything he does, from who he dates to the clothes he wears, the car he drives, where he vacations, is of tremendous interest. And then that gives you different ways to engage his audience. So in him, he's a brand in himself, and he has an audience of his own that is extremely important to mine and tap into as well.
- [21:09]
Matt Britton
Yeah. And when you talk about how just traditional media has changed over time and it's proliferated in so many different ways, the creator and the creator economy is something that obviously is growing in importance because they have a lot of the things that we've talked about they have the ability to storytell, they have the contextual aspect. The person that's following them has vested in their life. So I would imagine that's also a big part of extending to the extent
- [21:32]
Rustam Dastore
that we're building products for creators. We see the creators of today as small businesses.
- [21:37]
Matt Britton
Right.
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Rustam Dastore
And at the scale at which they're growing, Mr. Beast is no longer a small business. They're a medium sized to big business.
- [21:42]
Matt Britton
Right.
- [21:43]
Rustam Dastore
So a creator is actually today's small business that's ready for scale. So we've got products like the business builder product and the creator card that are catering to their specific needs.
- [21:53]
Matt Britton
So it allows them to fund their
- [21:56]
Rustam Dastore
business, allows them to fund their business, gives them mentorship, gives them access to a community and really gets them to sort of scale up very quickly.
- [22:03]
Matt Britton
That's fantastic. So, you know, we're here entering 2026 and that's what I love about CES as it kicks off the year. There's so many possibilities. Where do you see the MasterCard business in five years from now? Like what will be different than exists today based on upon all these changes?
- [22:18]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah, I mean, as I mentioned, you know, most people know us for our consumer business, but we have a massive commercial business and we have a massive services business as well. So increasingly our brand is more than consumer payments. We're a true technology company that can impact many things from cybersecurity to AI to data analytics. We do marketing as a service. All of these are things that grow the enterprise at large. And what it means to be a partner of mastercard evolves and grows with it. So my job as a marketer for the company is to lift all of these boats through the strength of the MasterCard brand. And that's what we're doing.
- [22:52]
Matt Britton
So if I'm a business and I want to drive growth moving forward, what are some of the ways I can lean into MasterCard?
- [22:58]
Rustam Dastore
Well, let's start with data. Right. As I mentioned, we're processing 150 billion transactions that are available to you in an aggregate anonymized manner to spot trends and to spot patterns. Those could be very helpful for a small business when it comes to forecasting, when it comes to financing, when it comes to what to stock and what not to stock, when it comes to how to market, those are huge benefits.
- [23:20]
Matt Britton
People are talking with their, with their wallets. Which is the best, right? It's the best way. I mean, there's a lot about Kalshi. I don't know if you're following these prediction markets now. But one thing that they really unlocked is that polling is nowhere near as accurate as the way that people spend their money. And if they're making big bets on something, there's probably something behind it.
- [23:39]
Rustam Dastore
Exactly right, exactly. Cybersecurity is another area. Every business today that goes digital has to be thinking about cybersecurity. And that's where we have an enormous play, an enormous footprint. So that's another area where we have small businesses, medium sized businesses, large businesses really protect the environment in which they operate digitally.
- [23:57]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Right.
- [23:57]
Matt Britton
And that's obviously in the world of AI, there's going to be a discussion yesterday. I mean, but it's also only a matter of time before AI is going to have some type of cataclysmic, unfortunately impact on a business or on culture or society at large. That is really going to wake us up. And I think the nefarious actors are going to be able to deploy AI in some pretty scary ways which make cybersecurity more important than ever before.
- [24:19]
Rustam Dastore
That's right. Even in our personal lives, we should be very conscious of cybersecurity.
- [24:23]
Matt Britton
So curious, how are you using AI on a day to day basis to both enrich your mind, keep in touch with what's going on, and also to deploy it to make you more efficient in your day to day roles.
- [24:35]
Rustam Dastore
It's interesting. We recently did a study and I'll tell you three patterns that came out and then I'll talk specifically about myself. There are three ways, and this won't come as a surprise, that people are using AI in a step change manner. The first is shopping. Just being better informed shoppers.
- [24:48]
Matt Britton
Are you starting to see that a lot?
- [24:50]
Rustam Dastore
Yes, we are.
- [24:50]
Matt Britton
That consumers are using chatbots to purchase
- [24:53]
Rustam Dastore
100%, to make decisions, shopping decisions. The second is travel, which is massive. And the third is financial literacy. So these are the three areas that have pulled away right now from everything else in terms of how consumers are using AI. For me, all three are relevant. I'm doing all three. I always tell the story about last year we went on a family trip to Chicago. I planned the whole itinerary in ChatGPT. First time, no one in the family had an argument. We all got what we want out of it. It was within budget.
- [25:20]
Matt Britton
This is what my family likes, this is what they're interested in. Put something on the calendar.
- [25:24]
Rustam Dastore
You chose the right hotel, the right flights, the right restaurants, the did it
- [25:27]
Matt Britton
book it for you or did you.
- [25:28]
Rustam Dastore
Not yet. That's next. Because now we have something called agent pay, which is a token that enables AI platforms to do that booking for you. So last year I still had to go through the manual process of going on JetBlue.com, going to the hotel, so on and so forth, that won't be necessary.
- [25:44]
Matt Britton
But that if you think about the implications of that, I mean, all these brands that you would have normally and you do today, but you're saying, you know, tomorrow. And I fully agree with you, whether you're going to the Marriott Bonvoy site to book your hotel or JetBlue's website to book, those sites aren't visited in that consumer journey anymore. And you're relying upon an agent to make those decisions, which means for those brands, the way they have to build their brand is completely different.
- [26:08]
Rustam Dastore
Well, I'd go a step further and say, do brands really need websites anymore? Right. Or is this just system to system communication is a query you put into ChatGPT just communicated to a DMP that an airline has JSON or XML being the medium where you don't even need a website.
- [26:27]
Matt Britton
But then if that's the case, who does a brand market to?
- [26:31]
Rustam Dastore
An agent, right?
- [26:32]
Matt Britton
So, but what does marketing to an agent look like?
- [26:34]
Rustam Dastore
Well, no different than marketing to any influencer, except that the influencer is not a human being, it's a machine. And so you've got a plan for what it's like to communicate with the machine.
- [26:44]
Matt Britton
So this year and this past year, about 80% of my inbound inquiries for public speaking came from ChatGPT, for example. So people used to find me on traditional Google searches, and now they're searching for AI consumer speaker on, and then they find me. So in order for me to have that agent, whether it's ChatGPT, Gemini, Claude, whatever, recommend me, I need to have a lot of content out there. But you're saying I'm making that content for the agent? Not really necessarily even making the content
- [27:10]
Rustam Dastore
for the consumer, you actually might not need a lot of content. You just might need the right content in the right place. So you might need to harness all your content, put it into a dmp, have that dmp, almost like an intelligent decision machine, have that connected through APIs into the right environment, and then the API will call on that data that says for this purpose, Matt's the right guy, and you get into their search stream.
- [27:34]
Matt Britton
But that also means that ultimately the arbiter of the consumer decision is an agent. And a consumer is going to be trusting these agents for where to travel, for what to buy, et cetera.
- [27:46]
Rustam Dastore
Yes, but that is not new for marketers, for instance, when we market products to ultra high net worth consumers, people who have 10 million or more in investable assets invariably is through a financial advisor or a wealth manager. Right. When high end apparel sellers or high end furniture makers market to wealthy people, it's through a stylist or a.
- [28:06]
Matt Britton
Right. And hotels market to travel agents. Exactly right.
- [28:09]
Rustam Dastore
So this is not new.
- [28:10]
Matt Britton
Except it's not a human.
- [28:11]
Rustam Dastore
It's not a human. Which is kind of a big deal. Which is kind of a big deal. And you've got to plan for that and structure for that. And that's where things like technical branding will become very important.
- [28:20]
Matt Britton
What is technical branding?
- [28:21]
Rustam Dastore
So today when we look at branding, it's very physical and tactile. Right. A logo, colors, fonts, tone and manner. But in an AI environment, that doesn't matter. So you've got to have your brand differentiate in an algorithm. That's going to require technical branding, which we haven't even scratched the surface of.
- [28:39]
Matt Britton
This is the first time I've heard
- [28:41]
Rustam Dastore
that phrase, probably not the last. You might hear it a few times this week. Another area, Matt, is content. So it's very easy for content to be spoofed outside.
- [28:50]
Matt Britton
Yeah.
- [28:51]
Rustam Dastore
So you're going to have to start thinking about tokenized content that's hashed and with cryptography, that's verifiable so that an agent knows you're already trusted. Content, not a fraudster. Spoofing.
- [29:04]
Matt Britton
Right. Because there's just like we saw. I remember there was a company called Demand Media. It was like a content farm. They were like the first company to try to game the Google algorithms. You're going to see that happen all over again and it scales. Right.
- [29:15]
Rustam Dastore
So again, these are all things that marketers are going to have to get savvy on, learn, which we will, and just get better at doing. But it is a mindset shift in
- [29:24]
Matt Britton
terms of how you market, especially for the cmo. So let's talk about that. I mean, what does all this mean for the future role of the cmo? How's it going to be different moving forward?
- [29:33]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah, as I said a few minutes ago, it's a very exciting time for a cmo because once again you can deliver true relevance to an organization, but it does mean harnessing technology very differently.
- [29:46]
Matt Britton
Yeah. You clearly understand technology or a lot of CMOs that I've interacted with, they're much more about those big anthemic brand spots and working with a Madison Avenue ad agency, which I think is important. But the picture you're painting Makes it seem less important.
- [30:00]
Rustam Dastore
But I think that's starting to happen. Like, more and more CMOs that I talk to are already in this mindset. And I think most people see this as very exciting. And there's a huge creativity unlocked. That creativity might manifest itself differently. I think agencies themselves are going to have to think about creativity differently. But I think we're on that journey.
- [30:19]
Matt Britton
So let's talk about your journey and how you ended up in the role you're in today. Obviously, the world's very competitive. You've been at MasterCard now for 12 years. Almost 12 years. Yeah. Moving your way up. And you've worked at some pretty fascinating places prior. What are some of the areas you think you successfully leaned into across your career journey that put you in a position that you're in today?
- [30:40]
Rustam Dastore
Look, curiosity is everything, especially in marketing. The more curious you are, the more you learn. The more you learn, the more opportunities you get. You know, being resilient, to take a few knocks and get back up and not let it phase you. I always say the worst disappointment should not last more than three months. If it's going beyond three months, you've got an attitude problem. So anything that disappoints you, get it over in three months and move on with your life. I think that's extremely important. And just be willing to lean in, go places, meet people, have conversations. Even if you're tired, go have that dinner with someone who invites you to.
- [31:12]
Matt Britton
Especially when you're younger in your career, you don't have family obligations. You should never be home. Go to every single event. One thing I find is people think sometimes they know what's gonna happen at that dinner. Cause they have a vision. I'm gonna go to this dinner. This is what's gonna happen. And it's not worth it. The reality is you have no idea who's gonna show up, what you're gonna talk about, what's gonna happen. So you create this world that gives you comfort in making a decision not to go when that's the worst decision.
- [31:38]
Rustam Dastore
I got my first job in marketing, sitting in a lawyer's reception area waiting for a lawyer's appointment. I just happened to chat with the guy next to me, and he was the CFO of a major ad agency, and I handed him my resume. That's how I got my first job. Talk about right time, right place, right? So unless you get yourself out there, you're never gonna know what happens. Hustle culture is a real thing.
- [32:02]
Matt Britton
Yeah. And you never really know at the time. I was watching one of my favorite artists ever is Billy Joel, and I was watching his documentary, and he went to this small radio station in Philadelphia and recorded a demo for the song Captain Jack. And then he went out to la. And the world was different back then. But what he didn't know is that song became so popular, people kept asking for the song to be played. And then a record label caught wind of it and tracked him down to la. And that was his break. And he probably had so many reasons not to go and do that demo. And if he didn't, and we might not know Billy Joel as we know him today. Like, you just have to put yourself out there, do every interview, do everything you can to open up those opportunities.
- [32:40]
Rustam Dastore
Exactly. And once again, we bring this full circle to AI. Right. In a world where the technology is table stakes, that's what's going to differentiate us.
- [32:47]
Matt Britton
Right.
- [32:48]
Rustam Dastore
Everyone's going to have the tool. You're not the only guy in town with ChatGPT anymore. So once everyone has it, the difference is going to be your hustle.
- [32:56]
Matt Britton
Right, Your hustle. And also, I think your ability to storytell around yourself. Like, you have a way of looking at the world, which I can tell you, as somebody who interviews hundreds of people a year, is distinct. Like, you look at, you're a good storyteller. You seem to understand where the world is headed, and I think you need that. You need a distinct element to bring to the table, because if you're seeing the things everyone else is, then you again, commoditize yourself.
- [33:19]
LinkedIn Advertiser
Yeah.
- [33:19]
Rustam Dastore
Part of it is also my journey in living in so many different countries, so many different cultures. Right. I was born and raised in India. I came to Arizona about 100 miles from here as a student in the 90s. I then moved to Boston. I then moved to New York. I moved to London, I went to Singapore. I came back to the us so I've lived in three continents and multiple countries. I now oversee Latin America as well. So that gives you a perspective that the world is a complex, large place. And the more open you are to being agile and flexible and learning and not thinking that the world revolves around you, the better off you're gonna be for it. Yeah.
- [33:55]
Matt Britton
I remember last time we spoke, you had told the story about how a soda or something that we take so for granted here in America is a luxury in other areas in the. So really being able to understand that, I think is hugely important. So how do you spend your time? Because I think a lot of people listening to this interview are going to want to know this. Keeping your finger on the pulse of where everything's headed.
- [34:17]
Rustam Dastore
Again, curiosity. I'm a voracious reader. I watch hours and hours of YouTube in my free time. It's great for learning new things. It's great for sort of exposing yourself to new ideas. I like hearing things that make me uncomfortable.
- [34:31]
Matt Britton
Interesting.
- [34:32]
Rustam Dastore
Whether it's socially, politically, economically. I want to hear the stuff that eliminates the blind spots that I have, and then I can decide whether to embrace that or not. But I don't believe in this culture of just live within your echo chamber, or your echo chamber, rather. So just talk to people like you. I think you got to talk to people who make you uncomfortable. You got to hear things that make your hair stand a little bit. That's essential to covering those blind spots.
- [34:57]
Matt Britton
Yeah, absolutely. So we hear CES overlooking the beautiful Bellagio fountains kicking off the year. What are some of the exciting innovations at CES that you're particularly interested in seeing?
- [35:08]
Rustam Dastore
Yeah, again, we started this conversation about marketing and technology. Right. So I'm interested in seeing what's out there that really gives me a signal about consumers. So every connected device today is a data sourcing device. That should give marketers signals as to what consumers want. I'm curious to see what's out there that makes me smarter about consumers. It helps me reach them in better ways, and that's why I'm here.
- [35:30]
Matt Britton
Awesome. We always wrap up our podcast asking our guests if there's a saying or mantra that helps guide their professional journey. I have a feeling that you have no shortage of them, but just want to know what comes to mind for you.
- [35:40]
Rustam Dastore
So I heard something recently that had a profound impact on me. It's a core. You ready for it?
- [35:47]
Matt Britton
Let's do it.
- [35:48]
Rustam Dastore
The one thing I've learned about life is that it goes on. The one thing I've learned about life is that it goes on. And so we get so caught up in the moment. We're so concerned about the world, our families, our careers. But life goes on. Yeah, Good things happen. Bad things happen. The sun rises again tomorrow. Life goes on. And I thought for someone who's sort of midlife as to where I am right now, that was profoundly moving and
- [36:13]
Matt Britton
impactful and to unpack that for a second. And I mean, that is about resilience, right? It is about moving on. It is about knowing there's a new day and always more to uncover.
- [36:23]
Rustam Dastore
That's right. Yeah, it very much is. And I think we need that resilience today.
- [36:27]
Matt Britton
We really do. It's a world full of opportunities, but also a world full of if you choose to worry and doomsday scenarios and all these things. It all depends upon the scroll that you want to look into, the feed that you want to shape your life. I guess so to speak. So awesome. Well, to no surprise, it's been a fantastic discussion. I can't wait for our audience to hear it. I just want to wish you nothing but Success here in 2026 and beyond.
- [36:48]
Rustam Dastore
Thank you Matt.
- [36:49]
Matt Britton
Absolutely. On behalf of Susie and adwee team, we are here live in Vegas. Special thanks to Rustin Dastor, the EVP of Marketing Communications at mastercard, for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe Rate Review the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. See you next time everyone. Take care. Bye bye. The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Suzy as part of the Ad Week Podcast Network and a Guest Creator Network. You can listen subscribe to all Ad Weeks podcast by visiting adweek.compodcast to find out more about Suzy, head to susie.com and make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening.
- [37:48]
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Rustam Dastore
I remember telling my boss it'll be
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Matt Britton
good for the brand when leads were slow.
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Rustam Dastore
Yeah, it it wasn't.
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- [38:21]
Matt Britton
What makes a leader worth following?
- [38:23]
Rustam Dastore
What should you really care about in your job? As technology is changing so quickly, is
- [38:28]
Matt Britton
it just gonna be about machines talking to other machines? I mean, should you quit your job and start something on your own? What would that take?
- [38:34]
Rustam Dastore
What does success and risk look like when we're all at the starting gate together?
- [38:38]
Matt Britton
These are the questions we answer each week on Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler.
- [38:43]
Rustam Dastore
Join us each week and subscribe at your favorite podcast platform and YouTube.
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Matt Britton
We'll tell stories, we'll hear from some of the best, and we'll try to figure this out together.
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Rustam Dastore
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