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The Speed of Culture Podcast
Tap reset: How Lagunitas is redefining beer culture with non-alc brews
00:24:55
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- [00:00]
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- [00:58]
Hannah Dray
Experian.
- [01:03]
Experian Advertiser
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- [01:33]
Hannah Dray
If we choose not to move with that trend, we will get left behind. And I think for us, Lagunitas is a brand where innovation is in the heart of our DNA.
- [01:44]
Matt Britton
To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, Founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now, and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Culture up to the Speed of Culture podcast, we are thrilled to be joined by Hannah Dray, Chief Marketing Officer at Lagunitas Brewing Company. With a career that spans Heineken Lagunitas, Hannah has led brands through some of the most significant shifts in consumer culture. From embracing nostalgia driven branding to leading the charge in non alcoholic and functional beverages, she's steering Lagunitas through a rapidly evolving market that thanks so much for joining Hannah.
- [02:28]
Hannah Dray
Thank you so much for having me. It's awesome to be on your podcast for the very first time.
- [02:34]
Matt Britton
Absolutely. So we just Had a funny kind of banter before we started recording because I didn't actually know how to pronounce the brand. I thought it was Lagunitus and is Lagunitas. And I imagine when you are rolling out a brand that doesn't have the unaided awareness of a Heineken or a Budweiser, that in itself presents some branding challenges. So talk to me about the brand itself. I know it's part of Heineken, if I'm not mistaken. So how do you build the challenger brand within a large incumbent and even start to build enough awareness so people know how to pronounce the name?
- [03:07]
Hannah Dray
Yeah, certainly not an easy task to do at all, I think, first and foremost. So Lagunitas is a craft beer brand. It was established here in Petaluma in 1993. So we've actually been around for over 30 years now. And to your point that you just mentioned, one of the biggest challenges over the last two years since I've been coming in on the brand is really around how do we reestablish this brand? Actually, during the time that it was first starting out, because of its challenger approach, because of its kind of irreverent personality and going against the grain of what the norm of the beer industry was, it was able to shout above its weight and to really drive its awareness through a lot of kind of the differing behavior that it had. One of the things that we've been super focused on in the last year, year and a half or so is looking backwards and really thinking about, okay, what worked for us back then and how do we bring that back? So one of my biggest challenges as I look towards the future years is how do I get this band back to growth? And we've really dug deep into what were those iconic elements that people loved about this brand and how do we bring that back? So, really specifically, the bold IPA branding, when you see that install, people instantly associate it with the Lagunit brand. In the last year, we've brought that back onto our packaging and really executed across every single touch point and seen consumers really gravitate towards it. And likewise with our little something brand, for example, with the iconic pinup lady, she has been slightly adapted, but we bought her back this year onto the packaging standout naming and font that's really driven an increased rate of sale, which has been awesome. I think the other aspect that we have to lean into as challenger brands is we have to think differently. So especially here in the us, a big media market where huge budgets are required or previously have been required to really play in the game. I think here, what we've started to lean into is actually how do we use PR opportunities and amplification stunts to really punch above our weight? Just recently, actually, we took some consumer insights which showcase that Americans are really not partying anymore. In fact, only 4% of Americans are actually socializing on the weekend, which is horrifying. And we took the opportunity to create a nationwide search for America's first party legend and dubbed it kind of the American party crisis. But for us, it was about, okay, how do you bring an unconventional spin to that? How do you make it different? Because that's quite a generic insight that a lot of brands could lean into. So for us, it was, if you are the party legend, we're gonna crown you with a gold statue that you get one for yourself, and that we'd put in the brewery as well. We'd give you $5,000 to be able to continue your partying. And it was all about how do you create? And they would get to come and have a beer named after them as well. So it's really about how do we offer unique opportunities for consumers to connect with our brand so that we create more noise than potentially just spending on digital or on social media might do for us.
- [06:06]
Matt Britton
Yeah. And as much as obviously you want to lean to the heritage of the brand and the packaging and the story, as you kind of alluded to, the consumers change. Right. It's no secret that Gen Z just doesn't pursue alcohol whether they're partying or not the way that they used to. And so there's tremendous shift in tastes and preferences, especially coming out of COVID How are you, as a CMO of a company that sells beer, responding to that?
- [06:30]
Hannah Dray
I think that's a really interesting question. I think consumers definitely have changed. What's been fascinating for us and really important over the past year as we've looked at the changes in the category, is actually making sure it becomes an and and not an or so. Actually, what we've seen is that foundational brands, the major brands, whether like our IPA or like our little something something, deliver the foundational bullying for our business. However, yes, it is with those changing consumer behaviors that we see the need for innovation. And continual innovation is where we there drive growth for us. We were the first craft beer to introduce a non alk product. So our IPNA and then kind of five years ago introduced the first hop water. So Hopi refresher, that continues to be the market leader within that category, has the highest rate of sale and the highest distribution. And just this year we introduced a hazy IPNA as well. So recognizing that even consumers taste profiles, so they're not drinking as much, but also their taste profiles are shifting. They're looking for something that is slightly more accessible, slightly fruitier, versus potentially that hoppy bitterness that we do deliver within the IP and a product. So we're only making sure that we're offering them choice. And likewise with that hoppy refresher, I think what we've seen in the alcohol category is that non alk beer is really thriving and that's where you're seeing a ton of growth. But ultimately consumers are looking for choice. And so for us, the Hopi refresher, which is zero calories, zero carbs and zero alcohol, offers consumers an alternative taste profile, something different that they're still able to be part of those social occasions and deliver them.
- [08:12]
Matt Britton
Curiously, Han, I mean you talk about like only 4% of Americans went out the party and now we're saying they're drinking less alcohol. And obviously there's so many other stats are just about how people are pushing off marriage and this and that. And it seems that just like social media and the iPhone and now probably AI as well, is just making people, maybe they feel so much more connected, but they're so much more insular. I mean, what do you think the implications of this are more broadly just for like Gen Z as they age up? Because a lot of people think Gen Z still is like a young consumer. But this year, for the first time ever, the average age of a first time mom in the US is Gen Z. So now this completely new framework is entering the household and household decision purchasing as well. Like what are some of the longer term trends that you have your eye on with this demographic in ways that will continue to impact your brand.
- [09:02]
Hannah Dray
So for me, health and wellness and like functional best benefits are 100% where we need to be playing and where we need to focus our time. I think just earlier this year you saw PepsiCo buy the poppy brand for 2 billion. That for me is just the start of where we see this trend moving. I think more and more you're seeing consumers and not even just Gen Z. If you look at what's happening in the Midwest with like Delta 9, for example, that is a older millennial female consumer that is now able to shop and find buzz without the booze or.
- [09:35]
Matt Britton
Look at GLP1 Hannah and what that's doing to impact people's tastes.
- [09:38]
Hannah Dray
Yeah. And so I think for us, you mentioned this earlier, but moving with that trend is exceptionally important. If we choose not to move with that trend, we will get left behind. And I think for us, Lagunitas is a brand where innovation is in the heart of our DNA. And in fact, pioneering brewing, let's call it, has always been what we're about and we're able to create incredible liquids. We're very fortunate to have three very talented innovation brewers here locally. And so for me, that is going to be super important as we look forward. How do we continue to expand without losing the DNA of the brand as well? So how do we maintain that relevance of being alcohol adjacent, but offering consumers more variety and allowing them to, as I say, still socialize, but in the way that they now want to socialize and being part of that occasion with.
- [10:27]
Matt Britton
Them and with the changing consumer and some of the behaviors that we've discussed. Is there a shift in terms of on premise versus off premise consumption? And does that change the way that you obviously if someone's buying a beer at a bar or a nightclub, it's going to be packaged and merchandise differently than if they're getting it at Walmart. Does that shift make you impact your product mix and your packaging and even the way that you storytell?
- [10:50]
Hannah Dray
Yeah. So I think launching products and being channel specific has been at the heart of kind of how we've been transitioning this business. I think very much so you see a heavier shift in terms of scale with the off premise. Particularly, I think now with financial pressures starting to come in, consumers are able to get more bang for their buck. When it is in the off premise, it's all about how does this look and what does this say about me? And that's where the Lagonesis brand personality has been super important to bring back to the forefront of our new packaging and our new visual identity. We're fortunate and very objective about the fact that we have a product for everybody, no matter which occasion or which personality you're wanting to be. And so each and every single one of our products aims to really showcase our consumers different personalities, no matter where they find theirselves. And I think where we've started to lean is we've got three very clear buckets within our portfolio. One that is very much around our core. It's very much for our, like our main consumers who've been with us all these years. We've then got products where we see hierarch and flavor really come into the forefront. I think if you think about those consumers that are shopping within convenience stores, they're looking for smaller scale fat pack formats, they're looking for bang for their buck. So you get that higher abv, higher octane taste profile, very hoppy, really leading the way and then you've got this non alk space. In contrast, what I would say is in the on premise and we fundamentally believe that the on premise is super important to our category. We particularly believe, as I mentioned, about social connection here, about Lagunitas, it's about getting together with good friends, a good beer and of course your dog. So for us it's like, how can we move to the trend? People are looking for more sessionable products, they're looking for slightly easier drinking. And so this year we launched our hazy IPA brand which is a 5.5%, juicier, slightly citrusy driven, coming from kind of the Nelson and Crush hops in the on premise. And we have seen phenomenal performance of that. So for us this was something that we deliberately chose to launch in the on premise first. We knew that we're a brand, we're the number one craft beer brand within the on premise. It's our heartland, it's where we kind of established ourselves. And so we really wanted to again look back at what had worked for us. How do we real establish those consumer connections within real time and real moments and use that brand to start there? And we will look to transition that into the off premise nationally in the right way. But first and foremost it was all about how do we bring that to life in the on premise where consumers are likely to be wanting more than one or two beers but still want something that is easier drinking.
- [13:25]
Matt Britton
Yeah, it's interesting. It's an insight that I guess seems obvious when you think about it. I just had the chance to think about it like you have because this is what you do all day. But just the notion that when you're buying a beer at a bar or a nightclub, the optics matter. And if you're buying a beer at a store, beer, liquor store or big box retailer, the optics of the packaging matter. But then the product almost has to deliver because when you're home and you're consuming it, there are no optics. You're just with your family. And I know taste matters and the product has to perform regardless. But the consumer journey is different. And the way that you think about what products might thrive in an on premise versus off premise environment is such an interesting nuance to your role and something I really hadn't thought of.
- [14:09]
Hannah Dray
Yeah. And even to build on that, if you think about in the on premise, the simplicity. I think one of the benefits we have been synonymous with the IPA category and having established the IPA category is the bar call. When anyone goes into a bar is I'll have the IPA or I'll have the Hazy. So for us when we were creating that brand it was a no brainer and we have never expanded off of our flagship because it is the crown jewel. But for us it was a no brainer to make sure that this bar call was simple and very clear to consumers what they were getting. As you say, we're on the shop shelf. We've potentially got a little bit more time with that shopper to have a bit more fun and be a bit more playful with the naming conventions.
- [14:50]
Matt Britton
We'll be right back with the speed of culture after a few words from our sponsors.
- [14:54]
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- [15:26]
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- [16:25]
Hannah Dray
Experian.
- [16:30]
Matt Britton
So obviously as a marketer you have to get the brand and the product and the overall strategic pillars right. But then you obviously have to reach people, an increasingly crowded world and landscape. And you did mention the concept of storytelling which is obviously of paramount importance right now to every marketer. How do you approach storytelling? How do you Approach the ever evolving world of social media and people consuming on their mobile devices and everything that AI is bringing to the market in terms of hyper personalization, this new realm of expectations that we're undoubtedly going to be seeing from consumers.
- [17:02]
Hannah Dray
Great question. I think it's definitely challenging for us. I think it's been super important to put the consumer at the heart of it. We really like to lean on what are consumers talking about, what are they saying to us and how can we bring that into what we choose to execute. For example, and alongside kind of the Party Legends campaign that I was just talking to you about, we have seen numerous consumers really ask us, can you bring back brown sugar? Can you bring back brown sugar? Bring back sugar's original recipe. And so later this year to consumers delight and those fan favorites, they will be getting sugar coming to life in October through to the end of the year as a seasonal. But for us, it's all about how do we make sure that our real consumers are put at the heart of what we're doing. I think AI is super interesting, especially from a broader business perspective. I think there is a ton of opportunity from an efficiency, from kind of supporting with especially some of the more administrative aspects of our roles. I will say though, for Lagunitas as a brand that again really heroes those real connections and has authenticity at the heart of it, really encouraging consumers to be themselves. I think it is going to be exceptionally challenging for us to be able to leverage it from a creativity and storytelling perspective.
- [18:20]
Matt Britton
Even companies that want to do it are finding it challenging right now. In a way, it differentiates.
- [18:24]
Hannah Dray
Yeah. And for us there's some super simple things like if you look on our social media platforms, more often than not the majority of the people being showcased are my marketing department or our employees. Here it's about showcasing the real heart of the business. Likewise, we really connect with consumers we've just had. At the back end of last year, we executed a social stunt called Wedding Crashers where consumers have all been sending us their invites. I'm sure they send many big businesses invites to their weddings really looking for free items. But Lagunitas, being an irreverent brand and being a brand that does things in the unconventional and different way, actually decided to show up unannounced to their wedding because we were in fact invited. Of course we took them personalized beers, we bought a great party and a ton of energy with our Laginators. Again, putting those consumers at the heart of what we're doing and showcasing reality versus looking for something that can be created through AI is always going to be at the forefront of what we're doing.
- [19:24]
Matt Britton
And how big of a role do kind of creators and influencers play? I know that that may veer away from the authenticity of showing people in your office, but obviously they have scale and reach and influence that others don't. I was wondering where that fits into the overall mix.
- [19:38]
Hannah Dray
Absolutely. It's something this year that we've really started to bring to the heart of the brand plans. And I think, again, what's been super important, we've made a very clear priority to look at. Who are those influencers that are already connecting with us? I think as brands, you have to be very careful to make sure that whoever you choose to partner with, they really share your values. They really bring to life what you represent as a brand. And so, again, thinking about the fact that Lagunitas leans on unconventionality, it leans on being bold, it leans on being disruptive. For us, it isn't about necessarily just getting any influencer that can talk about our product. It's really about bringing the brand personality to life. And we've made a conscious effort as well to find the balance between local influences here in California, which is our heartland, but also making sure that we have influences that have that national relevance, too. And I'd also mention, I'm not sure if you're aware, we have an amphitheater series, which is kind of our music platform, and we have partnerships with the likes of NPR, Tiny Desk 2, and those are key aspects where we have artists that come to our amphitheater here in Peterunga that also operate as influencers. Just a few weeks ago, we had Morgan Jay, the comedian who mixes comedy and music, super unique. He was awesome. We just had him on board, and he's done a load of content, integrating Lagunitas, but also one of our local influences, into his content as well, which was super cool. So really looking at the different ways that we can lean into the different pillars of the brand as well. So not just unconventional, but the role of music to help with that scale.
- [21:14]
Matt Britton
Excellent. So I'd love to shift gears and talk about you and your role as we wrap up here. Hannah, obviously, the role of the CMO has changed so dramatically over the last decade and arguably over the last year even. And we've talked about a lot of things today, from your product roadmap to positioning and storytelling to retail and, of course, your channel strategy. How does the normal pie chart of your week play out? I mean, is it every week and every day Completely different. And how do you know where to prioritize your time in the role of the CMO here in 2025?
- [21:44]
Hannah Dray
There's definitely been a big transition there. I think there is. Especially at Lagunitas, there is no one day that is consistent. I think that is one of the things that I love about this role. The dynamism, the variety that you get to work on. On one day I can be talking about cannabis and THC products. On the next day I can be talking about non alk. So very different ends of the scale. Generally, I try to focus my time more specifically on either strategic work and of course, building and developing the team within my department. But I think one of the other fundamental aspects is having that connection across the business. I fundamentally believe that marketing is really the heart of any business. And I think having that connection with your supply chain, with your sales team, with your finance team, to make sure we're all in lockstep is super important.
- [22:31]
Matt Britton
Absolutely. And you know, just looking at your history and your career, prior to joining Lagunias, you were part of their parent company, Heineken. Obviously the powers that be at Heineken, putting you in charge of this sort of emerging brand and portfolio of products was not a decision that was taken. Likely. What are some of the attributes that you think you've built professionally over time that has put you in a position to the seat that you're in today and ultimately the seat that so many of our listeners want to get into, which is that of the cmo?
- [23:00]
Hannah Dray
Yeah. So I think one of the big attributes of myself that has probably put me in a very good position to take on this role is really getting uncomfortable with doing things that make me extremely uncomfortable. And I think I mean that in the best way. I think it really means stepping into the unknown, doing things that other people haven't necessarily foraged the path on just yet. I think if I look back to even the start of my career, I remember going for my first brand manager job, which was the brand manager of the Heineken sub. And I will tell you now, not a single other person applied for this role because it was a weird new product that needed a completely different marketing plan. It was all an E commerce and online focused strategy essentially, that I, by the way, had no experience in. And for me it was like, well, this is new. I'm going to learn a ton more. And I'm super curious to see where this can take us. It's talking with completely different customers we'd be talking with on the kind of some of the other brands. And I think I've bought that spirit through everything that I've done and all the roles that I've taken. Just before coming to Lagunitas, I was working on the Dos Equis brand where I introduced the first tequila based product. I mean, just working with the crt, integrating a spirits based product into a beer business was all a huge learning curve and something we had not done as a business. But I think having that courage to be able to step outside of your comfort zone, not be reckless, but think about, okay, how do I do this? And I think at times also drinking a little bit of the Kool Aid and believing that, okay, I don't have all the answers, but I think we can figure this out.
- [24:33]
Matt Britton
Nobody does, Hannah.
- [24:33]
Hannah Dray
Right.
- [24:34]
Matt Britton
And especially in a time when things are changing as rapidly as they are with your category and the consumer, arguably the biggest risk is not taking one and staying in place. And it seems like you're somebody who's willing to run into the fire when others aren't. And I think it's a good lesson for all the listeners is things are gonna change whether you like it or not, whether you think it's right or wrong. That's sort of the way the world goes, especially the business world in 2025. And if you're willing to dive in and admit that you don't know everything, but you're willing to learn, it's going to put you in a really top position in whatever organization you're trying to have an influence at.
- [25:06]
Hannah Dray
Yeah, absolutely. I think I know you kind of have spoken with a few different guests, and a lot of them have always spoken about kind of the path not being linear in terms of their mantras. I think for me, definitely taking that leap and enjoying the ride. Again, sometimes difficult to do when you're in the thick of it and kind of not being able to see a way out, but really just taking on those opportunities. It's not always the plan that you've written, but I think you are always learning, even when. When you're not winning. And so for me, throughout my career, I have often looked back and kind of felt, okay, that may have not been the easiest path, but I have learned a ton in doing so.
- [25:43]
Matt Britton
Yeah. And it always seems obvious in the rearview mirror, but you're never able to see that at the time, how it's likely to hold up. So we often ask our guests to wrap up the podcast if there's a saying or mantra that kind of encapsulates the professional journey to date and just want to know what comes to mind for you.
- [25:58]
Hannah Dray
Yeah. So as I just mentioned, I think for me it's all about taking that leap and enjoying the journey. I think I have not really left any opportunity unturned or have never said no to an opportunity. I don't believe that should contradict your values. However, I never planned to live in California. I never planned to stay in the US for eight years and here we are. And my career continues to go from strength to strength. And I think alongside that, Ted Lasso has obviously become famous for his yellow sign that has believe on it. And I think especially as a female in the industry and as somebody young in the industry as well, believing there are days you have to kind of just put on your big girl pants and go out there. And I think that is super important to anybody. Taking a risk and doing something that's uncomfortable is really about believing in yourself on those days that it may feel tough.
- [26:46]
Matt Britton
I think it's fantastic advice, especially for women in business that want to kind of call their way to the CMO role as you have. So congrats on your success and thank you not only for telling me how to pronounce your brand, but also on how to navigate an ever changing consumer and industry. And I'll continue to root for you from afar. So thanks for joining today.
- [27:05]
Hannah Dray
Thank you for having me.
- [27:06]
Matt Britton
Absolutely. On behalf of Susie and Edward Keen, thanks again to Hannah Dray, Chief Marketing Officer at Lagunitas Brewing Company for joining us today. Be sure to subscribe and review the Speediculture podcast on your favorite podcast platform. Till next time. See you everyone. Take care. The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Susan as part of the Adweek Podcast Network and Agast Creator Network. You can listen subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting Adweek.com podcasts to find out more about Suzy, head to Suzy.com and make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify or anywhere else podcasts are found. Click follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes. On behalf of the team here at Suzy, thanks for listening.
- [28:04]
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- [28:36]
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- [29:37]
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- [30:04]
Hannah Dray
Experian.