Tuned In and Turned On: The Truth About Love, Trauma & Conscious Relationships with Stefanos Sifandos

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Spiritual Hustler – "Tuned In and Turned On: The Truth About Love, Trauma & Conscious Relationships" with Stefanos Sifandos

Host: Jessica Zweig
Guest: Stefanos Sifandos
Date: April 21, 2026

---

Episode Overview

In this powerful and deeply honest conversation, Jessica Zweig welcomes relationship expert and author Stefanos Sifandos to discuss his new book, Tuned In and Turned On, the journey from trauma to healing, and what it means to create conscious relationships. Together, they explore the interplay of feminine and masculine energy, the truth about navigating intimacy, the difference between sex and sacred sexuality, and the gritty realities behind personal and relational transformation. Stefanos shares personal stories of pain, growth, fatherhood, and love—inviting listeners, especially entrepreneurial women, to consider how their nervous systems, past traumas, and patterns impact the way they lead, love, and show up in the world.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Finding Purpose through Pain

• Stefanos’ Turning Point
  • Stefanos shares a profound moment of darkness (13:41), describing an experience where he contemplated ending his life by swimming out into the ocean, overwhelmed by pain and uncertainty.
    • "I made a prayer with God and I said, if I'm meant to be here in this life and to continue, give me a sign. And… I said, show me dolphins right now." (15:00)
  • Seeing dolphins became the sign he needed to keep going, ultimately leading him to seek healing rather than escape.

Compensatory Behaviors and the Path to Healing

• Early Coping Mechanisms and Addictions
  • Stefanos discusses using food and fantasy (escapist movies) as a child, then adrenaline, crime, and sex as he grew into adulthood.
    • "A compensatory strategy is really a form of escaping the present moment that feels like it's too much on the nervous system and on the mind." (18:48)
  • These strategies, he explains, are about avoiding pain and seeking control when life feels overwhelming.

Toxic Patterns and the Work of Acceptance

• Naming the Shadow
  • Stefanos identifies 15 toxic patterns in his book—aggression, neglect, avoidance, codependence, and more.
    • Jess challenges the use of the word “toxic,” and Stefanos clarifies:
    • "What I mean when I say toxic, really, I'm talking about unhealthy, unproductive patterns that have their use by date, but we're still applying them… serving your ego, serving your personality of what's familiar and what's protective." (28:23)
• Change and Acceptance
  • Change emerges by embracing discomfort and being real about our “ugly” sides. Acceptance, rather than resistance, is what ultimately moves us forward.

Consciousness, Triggers, and Nervous System Regulation

• Regulating for Resilience
  • Stefanos explains that regulation and “clocking more time in calm” outside of intense moments is as crucial as in-the-moment strategies. Childhood trauma shapes adult nervous system responses.
    • "I'm more resourced in the moment to delay the reactivity… I can't access those tools when I'm overwhelmed and under-resourced. So my work is in the proactive aspect." (30:39)
• Parenthood as a Mirror
  • As a father, Stefanos explores how raising his daughter triggers old patterns and fears, connecting back to unsafety and volatility in his own childhood (35:19–38:56).

Sacred Relationships & Sexuality

• The Difference Between Sex and Sacred Sexuality
  • Stefanos discusses intentional, sacred sexuality beyond technique—emphasizing honesty, clearing resentments, and creating space for attraction.
    • "How can you be attracted to someone that you're angry at secretly and you're not telling them? … Magnetism diminishes, attraction diminishes." (44:09)
  • Suggests practical routines for couples: monthly withhold-sharing rituals to clear the air and rekindle intimacy.
• Intimacy as a Container for Transformation
  • Jess highlights how long-term relationships are the ultimate arena for inner growth.
    • "My relationship with my husband has been my greatest container for my own growth. … I really believe that's where we do our deepest healing work." (59:46)

When Your Partner Isn't ‘Conscious’ – Meeting People Where They Are

• Breaking Old Stories about Partners
  • Stefanos challenges “my partner just isn’t conscious” narratives, asking:
    • "Is it really true? … There's the vulnerability piece, and there's the personal values piece." (49:51)
  • Advice: Share from true vulnerability (fears, longing, not just surface needs) without attachment to the outcome.
    • "Get him to do nothing. For the intrinsic value and sake of just sharing your truth and letting it land." (54:27)
  • Evaluate your own non-negotiables and be open to the reality that deep partnership looks different for everyone.

For Those Seeking Partnership

• Navigating Loneliness and Standards
  • To women looking for love: Don’t lower your standards, but consider loosening rigid “conditions” or checklists.
    • Sharing Christine’s story, Stefanos advises surrendering those lists to higher guidance (60:49).
• Facing Radical Acceptance
  • Stefanos on the paradox of desire and surrender:
    • "Maybe, and this is the uncomfortable truth… you will never be in the partnership you want. … And it's the loneliness and the fear and the unworthiness. Paradoxically, you go with that… that's when you get the thing you want." (63:06, 66:01)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Acceptance & Vulnerability:
  • "There needs to be a level of acceptance. … Until we do that, until we embrace all of ourselves and move in wholeness, we don't change, we don't grow." – Stefanos (28:22)
• On Practicing Calm:
  • "The more proactive I am in clocking more time in calm, when those moments arise… then I can access tools..." – Stefanos (36:36)
• On Relationship as Mirror:
  • "We're not regulated and attuned and loving within myself, [it] doesn't pass on to anyone else. … The best thing I can do is just be a safer space for myself and for people that come into contact with me." – Stefanos (70:58)
• On Surrender and Calling In Love:
  • "Don’t lower your standards, but lower your conditions." – Stefanos (60:49)
  • "That's the paradox, that... that's the codes." – Jessica (65:50)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [13:41] – Stefanos’ rock bottom and dolphin moment
• [18:48] – Childhood coping and compensatory behaviors
• [24:45] – On calling ourselves in and the role of discomfort
• [28:23] – The charge of 'toxic' patterns
• [30:39] – Nervous system regulation and proactive healing
• [35:19–38:56] – Fatherhood, triggers, intergenerational trauma
• [44:09] – The impact of withholds & resentments in relationships
• [49:51] – If your partner “isn’t conscious”
• [54:27] – Sharing truth without attachment
• [60:49] – Guidance for women seeking partnership
• [66:01] – Radical acceptance and the paradox of receiving love
• [70:58] – Legacy, New Earth, being a safe space

---

Closing Reflections and Resources

• Book Recommendation:
  • Tuned In and Turned On – Stefanos Sifandos
  • Bonus: Reverse interview with his wife, Christine Hassler, and audiobook in Stefanos' voice ([73:22])
• Other Notable Book Mentions:
  • Walking with the Himalayan Masters by Swami Rama (67:37)
  • Tony Robbins and Ray Dalio books (68:13, 68:49)
• Connect with Stefanos:
  • Instagram
  • Website for book and bonuses: tunedinandturnedonbook.com

---

Episode Tone and Language

This episode features openhearted, authentic dialogue, with both Jessica and Stefanos modeling the kind of vulnerable self-inquiry and radical honesty they champion. Their tone is supportive, nonjudgmental, and richly encouraging—inviting listeners not just to heal, but to lead and love from a whole new place.

---

For more details and resources, check the show notes for links to Stefanos’ book, additional bonuses, and social media handles. This episode is essential listening for anyone craving deeper self-acceptance, more authentic relationships, and a new vision of conscious partnership.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Spiritual Hustler podcast. I'm your host, Jessica Zweig, multi seven figure serial entrepreneur, best selling author and branding and business coach. And this is a show where we are redefining the word hustle. Reclaiming our true feminine nature of magnetism and putting down the self judgments and shame around loving to work and making a lot of money at it. On this show, you're going to learn how to stop hustling and start spiritually hustling by pressing play. You are now, now part of a new movement of women who don't hustle for money. We hustle for meaning. We don't hustle from lack, we hustle for love. We don't hustle from survival. We hustle for humanity's thriving. We hustle toward healing the ancestral programming of fear and step into a new understanding of safety in the body to receive. This shift isn't going to only heal your life, it's going to make you a whole lot richer too. This is the Spiritual Hustler podcast. Well, hello my spiritual Hustlers and welcome back to the podcast. I am your host, Jess and as always, I am so excited to be with you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in. I am so grateful for your presence. This podcast space is my heart. I just feel you all the time in the ether, in the multi dimension, this community of lightworker women across the planet. We have listeners on every single freaking continent. Shout out to my international girlies. I'm sitting here in my Nashville studio and just can feel you over there on the other side of the planet. I'm just very clear that what has taken place inside of this podcast community is special. It's different, it's rare, it's real, it's rooted. It is comprised of women who are doing their work, who are heart centered and making a difference in the world with, yeah, their businesses. Like of course we talk about that here. That's the hustling side of the podcast. Like how to build a brand, how to build a team, how to launch a product. We go through all of that here in the podcast, how to grow wealth. But it's so much deeper than the things we do. Like we're making a difference in the world, we're creating real impact, we're creating a ripple effect in the ether because of who we are, because of our beingness, because of our light, because of our truth, because of the fact that we are spiritual beings here, having this human experience connected to a much higher frequency of love and the feminine. And we talk about that too, on the podcast, we go deep into the human experience, which is comprised of so much complexity and pain and trauma, and we get really real about that kind of thing on the show so that we can make sense of it, so we can feel less crazy, so we can feel more empowered and less alone. And sometimes that comes in the same breath as to how to build a brand and grow an online community. And today's guest is really here to take us probably as deep as I have maybe ever gone on the podcast. I have a really, really special guest for you today, and I love when I get to bring in what I call the sacred masculine. I love the masculine. I know I talk a lot about the feminine, you guys. I talk a lot about the masculine too, if you know my work. We have to, as female entrepreneurs, be constantly calibrating and integrating both the divine feminine qualities of being a feminine leader as much as the divine masculine qualities of being a female leader. And what that really, really takes to come into coherence and integrate the sacred union of our power. Because we need both. We need both to lead and to love, to create structure and to create flow. We need to be assertive and we need to surrender. We need to be linear and we need to be quantum. This is really the essence of the duality, if you will, of the spiritual Hustler podcast. And my guest today is one of the most beautiful examples of the sacred masculine. He's not here to be put on a pedestal, trust me. This conversation with Stephanos Sofandos is by far one of the realest, most raw, honest, authentic conversations about love, about relationships, about shadow, about breaking down all of the parts of yourself that no longer or ever served you to be honest so that you can come into coherence with truth and with love and to leave a legacy, whether that's in the form of your family, your children, the work that you do with your community, what you leave behind with the planet. I asked Stephanos at the end of the interview, the question I ask every guest, which is, what does it mean to you to be a co creator of the New Earth Rising? And his answer, in my view, really encapsulated this whole conversation. And it was an answer unlike any answer I've ever gotten on the pod. Okay, you guys, here's the truth that most female entrepreneurs never hear. Your nervous system is running your entire business, your entire life, not your mindset. So you can have all the vision and all the strategy, but if your body is carrying chronic stress, inflammation or pain, everything is always going to Feel harder than it needs to be. And this is where Microflow comes in. Now this brand, I swear by Microflow, it has changed my entire life. It's founded by root cause health expert Christy Nalt. And Microflow creates the cleanest micro dosing supplement on the market. Okay. It's 100 organic, third party lab tested, Raiki infused and intentionally formulated for women. Now, each blend is designed to support brain heart coherence, your nervous system regulation and neuroplasticity, which helps you at the end of the day shift out of survival and into sustainable growth. And here is what's actually happening. Microflow helps quiet the default mode network in your brain. It's the autopilot in your mind, while activating neurogenesis so that you can build new pathways wired for creativity, clarity and resilience. This is why thousands and thousands of people who've used Microflow has said that it is the one thing that has drastically, clearly, evidently changed their life. And now Microflow has introduced a brand new blend that I am also obsessed with called Rapid Relief. Which is the next evolution of holistic pain support. Now, Rapid Relief works with your body, not against it. It supports your innate healing intelligence so that discomfort can finally resolve at the root without harsh downstream effects. Think of this as like your new one stop shop, Midol, Advil, Tylenol. But better because it's formulated with Microflow magic micro doses, regeneratively farmed CBD and ancient botanicals. I've used it every single week since I've got it. It helps calm inflammation, soften tension and restore the flow back into your body. Now, for female entrepreneurs navigating long days, nervous system overload or burnout recovery. You guys cannot not have Rapid Relief in your medicine cabinet. Start with the Exude and Surrender bundle and add Rapid Relief when your body needs extra support. And explore Theta for deeper, somatic and ceremonial work. If you are ready to increase your capacity by upgrading the technology of your nervous system, then you've got to get down with Microflow. Get the whole bundle, get the whole stack. It will be the most life changing tool you could possibly ever, ever work with. Visit microflow healing.com and use code jessica10 for $10 off of your order. That's microflowhealing.com and use code jessicA10 for $10 off of your order. All right, you guys, we're going to talk about one of my favorite topics, which is clothes. Now listen, hear me out when I say this. Your outer world is a reflection of your inner world. Okay? Sit with that for a second. And let's talk about my sister, Tally Kogan. All right, many of you know who she is. She's been my stylist for over 10 years. But she is not just a stylist. She is an activation. A fashion alchemist and true soul whisperer. Tali helps women from across the country embody their next level. Yes, through style, activating the manifesting power of what you wear and how you feel every single day when you walk out of your closet. Whether you're stepping into a rebrand, launching your next big offer, or are simply tired of hiding behind the same three comfortable outfits. Okay, she is the woman that you call I've worked with Tali for over a decade and she is the magic behind my signature style. I never go to an event, host a retreat, do a brand shoot without consulting with her. And she has not just changed how I dress, she's changed how I see myself. It's impacted not just my confidence and my energy, which is true, but my entire business. Her signature two day experience is called Calling Forth the Queen, which is a luxurious soul led styling and photo shoot journey for the the woman who is ready not just for a new wardrobe, but for an entirely new identity. You'll leave with countless styled looks for speaking engagements, podcast interviews, travel and everyday life. Plus over 100 stunning high end editorial brand photos to use across your platform. And yes, I said 100. If you've been feeling the nudge to elevate your brand, your identity, your entire life life babe. This is your sign. Head to tallykogan.com to book your transformational session right now. Because as Tali often says, you can have anything you want in life if you dress for it. It's true. Mention Jessica when you book your Calling Forth the Queen session and receive your own crown, a complimentary Melcari jewelry stack of three pieces styled just for you valued at over three seven hundred and fifty dollars. Yep, when you mention the word Jessica when you book your Calling Forth the Queen session, you're going to receive $750 of Malkari jewelry just because you came from my community. So head to tkogan.com today and step forth into your inner queen. And I encourage you to listen to this whole thing and really stay open to what might come up for you today. Listening to it. Because when someone really sit their raw, unapologetic authenticity is unafraid to really share all the parts of themselves that have transmuted their pain into purpose, as Stephanos has done in his work and as he's going to do today. I think it gives us all just such a really radical deep breath that we're all doing our best, that life is for you, not against you. Even in the moments you don't think it is if you don't know who Steph is. He's an internationally recognized author and a master teacher and relationship expert, really bridging the world of modern science and ancient wisdom. He's been in the space for two decades, has guided thousands of people from Olympic gold medalists to special forces soldiers. This guy has seen it all. He kind of struck me as a guy that was like, nothing shocks me. I've been to the depths and back. I got you. I get it. And he's really a. An expert, trained behavioral scientist and educator on the emergence of psychology, philosophy, and embodiment. And he's deeply rooted in spirituality, but most of all, his heart. And he just published his latest book, Tuned in and turned on. I read it, you guys. It was phenomenal. I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to talk to someone this honest. And I just know that you are going to get so much out of this conversation. I'm actually going to leave a link to buy his book, because when you buy his book with this special link, you're actually going to get a handful of bonuses, including a video of his wife, Christine Hassler, who's a dear sister of mine, interviewing him on the book. And I really cannot wait for you to go buy the book and listen to this episode. And I know after you listen to this episode, you're going to run to go get it. So take a deep breath, open your mind, open your heart. Don't be surprised if a couple tears come up today, because they certainly did for me, and take in what I believe is one of the most profound conversations I've ever had on this show. And so, without further ado, here is my incredible conversation with Stephanos Sofandos Stefanos. It's so good to have you. We're just going to flow.

[B]

Yeah, of course.

[A]

Honestly, I am. It's so full circle to have you. I've followed your work. I followed your journey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm so excited for this new book of yours. What you have created, I think, for the divine masculine, the divine feminine, like, it's needed. And this book is pretty incredible.

[B]

I appreciate you taking time to read it, of course.

[A]

I mean, this is a podcast. I want to go, like, I want to get turned on with you, and that's not an appropriate way. Like, let's get turned on. But before we get turned on. Everyone wants. Who doesn't want to be turned on? We're gonna tune in, right? And I would love for you to actually take us all back to the moment where you saw those dolphins, because I think that really paints the picture of where you were before you became the man that we all know today. So can you take us back to that moment?

[B]

The moment was just filled with a great deal of uncertainty and apathy and hopelessness and helplessness. I really. I really regressed to a very. To a state of my own psychology that just said, fuck it. Like, I can't anymore. Or I thought I could just, like, I'm done. I'm done with life, you know? And so I really. I love the ocean. Was in the ocean, I thought, well, unfortunately, Australia has a lot of sharks, so I know that I wanted to die by getting eaten by a shark, but I thought, I'm just going to swim out. I'm just gonna keep. Keep swimming. And I'm a fairly. I'm a very competent swimmer. I'm fairly strong swimmer. And I just thought, I'm just gonna keep, Keep going. There's no way I'll get to Rottnest, which is an island, you know, about 18 kilometers away or thereabouts. Like, I'm not that good. So I'm just gonna keep swimming and just let it all go, you know, and eventually, you know, which might, by the way, many years later, this is a few months ago. Just gonna fast forward for a second. I don't know what I was thinking because I. I nearly suffocated a few months ago.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Eating food. So I have a long story short. I have a narrow esophagus.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I've had that for years. And I got it checked out, and I did MRIs, and anyway, I have a narrow esophagus. So there's certain foods I eat, and I eat in a particular way fast. And then it clogs up. And so for years I've had this thing. Sometimes it gets stuck. I have to regurgitate it. Not to be too much information, but. And it's fine. It's uncomfortable, but it's fine. Anyway, this time I couldn't dislodge it. And I was. It was stuck and I couldn't breathe.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

So I was suffocating. And this was in my kitchen in. At home. And I managed to scream for Christine's name because I knew she was there. Sure. I'm so happy my daughter wasn't there. And during that time, it was like two, three minutes sort of journey here, right? And I'm like, if I don't get this thing out, I'm gonna die. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pass out because I can't breathe. Cause I was like, I get a little. Just a little bit of air in. It was stuck with peanut butter and something. I needed peanut butter for so long. Like, why are we eating peanut butter? But I was rushing around. That's the thing. Like, I rush sometimes. And I called Christine because I didn't want to die alone. Like, I literally thought, I don't. I can't. I'm not a. I'm not going to die like this. I cannot die like this. But if I do, I don't want to die. This is the thought I was having. And then I thought, this is the worst way to die, like, to suffocate. So I'm sort of just fast forwarding to go back. I don't know what the fuck I was thinking to go and want to swim out and drown myself. Right. Because it is horrible. It is so uncomfortable. Anyway, I managed to get it out, and I was very relieved. But that's where I was back then. At that moment. The symbolism of the dolphins were actually seeing the dolphins. I made a prayer with God and I said, if I'm meant to be here in this life and to continue, give me a sign. And so nothing. I thought, okay, I need to be specific. Because if I'm actually going to swim out and do this, I need some certainty. Because there was so much uncertainty. I said, show me dolphins right now. Dolphins. I thought, well, can't go swim out and drown. That was the. But I was just in a very low point. I think many people can relate to that. We get to a low point and we just. We don't know what to do and where to turn. To me, it was a logical. At least how I saw it was. It was a rational decision. Too much pain, right? I don't know how to be with the pain. I don't want to take drugs. I don't want to take other distractions. Like I'm doing all this inner work. But it doesn't seem to be moving anything. At least that's what I thought. I'm praying I'm here, but I'm just in this constant pain. I don't think I'm any good to anyone. And then the stories start compounding, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Then after a while, you believe your stories, right? And not everyone gets to that point, but many of us get to that point where it's just, life is really hard.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I didn't want to give up. I just didn't know what else to do.

[A]

And you went on to do quite a. Quite a bit. I mean, this journey that you've. You've been on, you wrote in the book, instead of hating the man that I had become, I needed to nurture the child that I'd been like. Many of us, like most of us, have experienced a really traumatic and painful childhood. It sounds like your parents weren't very loving. You were shamed for your body, and you went on this path that masked all of that pain with a lot of different types of behaviors. And this book really takes us in, like, I love the title, like, turned on and tuned in. And we begin with the inner. The inner healing that you really get so vulnerable in this book, Stefanos. And I really want to commend you for that. It's very brave thing to do to peel back the curtain and tell your story and you talk about, you know, all of the different habits that you kind of adopted as a man in pain.

[B]

As a compensation.

[A]

As a compensation. Exactly what were some of those compensations? If we can talk about that and then we'll get into the healing work. But I think it's really powerful for people. I want them to read this book. But you show a side of yourself that I didn't know that one wouldn't know unless they go this deep with you in a book. What were those compensating behaviors?

[B]

Yeah, for me. So from a very young age, before some of the more adult behaviors came into play, it was food and fantasy. So fantasy in the form of watching fantasy based movies and adventure movies and sci fi movies, like escapism, essentially, that was my escapism. A compensatory strategy is really a form of escaping the present moment that feels like it's too much on the nervous system and on the mind. It's an intensity that's felt that needs to be moved away from. And we either move away from it by becoming, quote, unquote unconscious or dead, as an example, as more extreme example. Or we distract, and we can distract with pleasure. So greater the pain, greater the pleasure. Right. And so food can increase pleasure in the body or escaping in fantasy and dreaming of places and watching heroes, you know, conquer and do things. And so for a little boy, that was awesome. But that also became a compulsion. Right. And so carry that on even today. Like my relationship with food today is really. Yeah, yeah. It's still challenging like, for example, I'm working with someone dialing in my nutrition and we're making some changes to my training. And, you know, he's asking me to train less, which that's hard for me to do, but I'm doing it. But honestly, everything he's asking me to do is easy except the playing with my nutrition, the food part, that the food pass.

[A]

So it never really goes away.

[B]

I don't think. I don't know. I don't think so.

[A]

Yeah, I agree.

[B]

I think it just. Your relationship to things change and I have greater capacity to be with that now, hence why I'm. I'm on this. And I want to make some changes, you know, aesthetically, physiologically, but also from a health perspective. I mean, I eat very healthy anyway. It's not really a challenge. It's more volume of food and going to food as an emotional resource, you know, and not leaning into that and being more in the still parts of myself. But as a child, it was that as I grew older, it became adrenaline, it became dopamine. I really, I mean, it's always dopamine, so to speak, but it was high octane adventuring. It was engaging in criminal. Really. It is. And yeah.

[A]

What was one of the worst crimes that you. What'd you do? Was it just petty or did. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

I wouldn't, I wouldn't.

[A]

Well, but there was like a rush in on a high and committing the crime.

[B]

I wouldn't call it petty. There was some. Oh, wow, there's some heavy stuff there. Okay. Yeah. And I was just very fortunate to not be caught.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

And I'm very grateful. And there was a moment in my life, in my early 20s, early mid-20s, where something happened. I thought that was really close. I think I've got to get out. Anyway, as that change, it was fighting, it was trying to make money. It was sex, novelty, variety, more women, more pursuit. That was really what became the crux for me. It was seeking validation and intimacy and closeness and connection through really casual encounters and mistaking that peak experience for something that was deeper meaningful than what it was. I'm not saying that casual encounters can be very meaningful where you are in your life, depending on how you approach it, with what level of intent and so forth.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

But I was way skewed and way off in my perception because ultimately I just wanted to be loved. That was the regression of that little child that we were speaking about or that. That little boy that needed to be nursed. I just wanted to be loved. And I Was looking for it in really the wrong places again, as many of us do.

[A]

Yeah, this is sort of meta, but I'm just gonna go there. Like, listening to you, you know, reading your book, seeing the work that you do today and that you've been doing for quite some time, going back in time, hearing this person, this wounded boy, this. This young man that hadn't healed, at this stage in doing the work that you do today. Like, my show is for women. Right. Like, I have a large audience, but I have often the.

[B]

The.

[A]

The masculine comes through and this sacred masculine, the healed masculine. It's so important to witness that level of vulnerability. Like, I thought your book really exposed in the most powerful way the real work that we're all invited to do. Because your book is for men and for women, but. And relationships. But it's just a gift to have men in their hearts who have gone this deep, who've looked in the mirror, who've taken responsibility and then have alchemized not everything perfectly, but have alchemized it enough to take their medicine and pour it back. And I just want to say thank you for that because it's a model and an example that we need in the world. Not just women, but the world needs it. And I just was sort of listening to this story and watching who you were and seeing who you are and how you've lived that so out loud and how important that is for all of us as an invitation of what's possible. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, for sure. I appreciate that.

[A]

I really, truly just wanted to say that. And you know, you talk about. I'm just. I've read the book, so I'm going to be looking down, but there's 15 toxic patterns that you name in the book that come from this, like, wounded part of ourselves. I mean, aggression, neglect, toxic communication patterns, self destruction. And then you also talk about what I feel so many of us, in an elusive way, experience as toxic behaviors, which is lack of responsibility, avoidance, negative self talk, codependence, a resistance towards personal growth. I see a lot of this in the community of women that I coach as well. And you named it as a toxic pattern. And I don't disagree, but I think there's a charge to that word, of course, such a charge. And how do we lovingly call ourselves out, to call ourselves in?

[B]

Yeah. If I may add something to what you said earlier around the meta piece, because I really. I'm a big believer. Like, I am a massive work in progress. I do not claim to, and I'm not saying that you were claiming this for me in any capacity. Just want to be very clear. There is a lot of stuff that I work on now as an adult, as a husband, as a father. I believe that every meaningful big intentional experience we have in our lives, such as having a child, for me, it brings up versions and layers of ourselves we get to play with. Right. And so this feeds into your question about how do we lovingly, you know, I say, call ourselves forward, right? Into. Into that version of ourselves that we see ourselves to be and that we want to be, that we desire to be, that we long for.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I think part of that is more than likely, you know, what defines the characteristics of your audience per se. My sense is they're probably, and please just correct me if this is inaccurate, but they're striving for something more. They want more out of their lives, out of their relationships. They're entrepreneurs. They're creative at the very least. Right. They're inspired. They want more from life. They play a big life. Right. And so when you play a big life, life will give you big things to be challenged. Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because it's at that edge of meeting yourself there that you grow beyond the limitations that you think you have. And so that live. That you believe, live in you. And so for me, I think it's inevitable that you're going to go through a phase of extreme or a version of discomfort intensity when it comes to

[A]

change or many phases.

[B]

Yeah, it's almost inevitable. And so it's going to be really difficult. And. But it's a difficulty that defines you. And when we fight the difficulty. Right. When we fight that natural phase of evolution or growth, we stay longer in it.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

The personality just latches on and says, nope, I'm not. I'm not changing out of what's familiar. I would rather be in pain and suffer and not. And. And not grow, because that's unfamiliar and I'd rather stay in what's familiar and I'm locked down. And the more you fight that and you don't embrace the challenge and the pain and the difficulty and the new identities that are coming through, the more difficult it is. And so there needs to be a level of acceptance. There needs to be this, this interaction, this. We can call it a war. Sometimes at some stages, it is a war with the ego or the personality. Right. Not because the ego and the personality are bad. They play a necessary evil, they play a necessary part in your life, but because that's what helps you transition from where you are. Where you've been to where you want to go. And in my life, I've found that every time I fight, that every time I resist, it doesn't end up well. I mean, I, I lean more. We go back, I go back to my own survival strategies. Reactivity, impatience, aggression, anger, despondency, apathy. I see the world through a negative light. Like these are my survival strategies to, to keep me aware and keep people at a distance, keep intimacy at a distance. Because people weren't safe when I grew up. And so I don't think people are going to be safe now as I'm going through this pressure cooker or this overwhelm. However, the more I see that as, oh, this is just a natural part of my growth and I can just relax into that a little bit more, it moves through me faster, it changes quicker.

[A]

Right, of course.

[B]

And it's not about speed, it's not about pace of change, but it is about this deeper acceptance of self. Because I spent so many years, I think we all do this in some capacity only embracing and showing the world the convenient parts of ourselves.

[A]

Of course, yes.

[B]

Because who wants to show the. The ugly cheetah? Or who wants to show the part that holds shame about their bodies? Or who wants to show the part that's really jealous? Or who wants to show the part that has this deep fear of being seen? No one does. And so. But until we do that, until we embrace all of ourselves and move in wholeness, we don't change, we don't grow. So back to the. I'll say one more thing to. You know, I purposely called it toxic traits because I know it carries a charge in society and I like to stir people up sometimes. I'm not a. I'm not a controversial person per se. I don't consider myself. I still like my archetype, but I don't. But I do like to challenge, sure, even how I see the world. And, and the moment I hear the word toxic, I'm like, ah. Because it is loaded. And it is, in my opinion, it's just an opinion. It has been misused and misunderstood. However, it carries some weight. And what I mean when I say toxic, really, I'm talking about unhealthy, unproductive patterns that have their use by date. But we're still applying them, right? We're still using them in the way we interact with the world and how we relate. So that's why it's unhealthy, because it's not actually serving who you want to become. It's just serving your ego, serving your personality of what's familiar and what's protective. That's it. Right? That's all it is.

[A]

So it's beautiful. So I want to go back to what you said about what I said about the meta comment because it's. It's really so true that nobody. We're all works in progress and there's no there there. You know, I've done a lot of work myself and I said to my therapist, I hired a new therapist this year and I was like, I've basically just hired you to help me free myself from my own bullshit. Like I'm still as much as work as I've done. I'm still here in many ways. And I'm curious to know the word conscious can also be like sexy. And everyone's striving to be a conscious person. It's just trendy today. But there's real gravity in choosing that path. It's not easy. And I'm interested to know when you have those moments, Stefanos, where you're feeling triggered and you're feeling angry and defaulting into your old survival patterns, you there's a choice point. I'm curious to know what are your practices like? How do you tune back in despite all of the work that you've done? You still get tripped up on your own bullshit. What does that look like for you in action? Can you give me a scenario?

[B]

Sure. I still get codependent. I get over reliant on someone else changing their behavior so that I can feel better. Still get reactive in the moment, in moments, not all the time, but often enough to notice it. To be honest, the in moment tools or practices really only become more effective when I'm proactively working on myself outside of those moments of intensity. So let me explain what I mean by that. I'm trying to clock more time in personhood. I'm trying to clock more time in a regulated nervous system, trying to clock more time in seeing the world and myself in a more expanded way outside of the moments of intensity. Because quite frankly, and to be very honest, I'm the type of person that collapses time and expands time simultaneously very quickly in the moment. And I very quickly go to survival strategies. However, the more I proactively work on myself when I'm not in a reactive position or I'm not in intensity or I'm not confronted with conflict or I'm not annoyed or whatever it may be, I'm more resource in the moment to delay the reactivity, to then engage In a simple practice like let me just breathe slow for three minutes, right. Or let me communicate with clarity. Hey, daddy's just going to walk out the room just for a moment because having some big feelings. I'll be right back in less than a minute. I can't access those tools that are really obvious for most people when I'm overwhelmed and under resourced. So my work for me, I actually think this is for all of us to some degree at least is in the proactive aspect. So what does that look like? That looks like making sure that my day, I don't stack in my calendar because of my neurodivergent brain. I don't stack my calendar back, back to, back to the last minute before I'm going to go to have dinner with my, my family, right. And I'm still frazzled. I'm not. I have to have intermissions. I have to have a little more space in my day. I need to practice regularly and remind, hey, I'm just going to go outside, I'm in the middle of work, everything's fine. I'm just going to go outside and put my feet in the grass for a moment and look at the sun and just breathe for two minutes and clock more time in exposing my nervous system to what regulation looks like because for me, I didn't grow up with that. I grew up with constant volatility, constant and violence. And so there wasn't space for that. So I had to create space and I had to compress space. And so that still lives that, that during those formative years where we're so susceptible to information coming to us, our nervous systems are shaped and they carry on into adult world, into adult lives. And so I'm still living like that to some degree because actually having. This was yesterday. Yeah, yesterday I was just, I just checked into my mum and you know, I said how's, how are you and dad and Baba. I didn't say dad, I said I'm half Greek, half Italian. So. And she was telling me a little bit thing and I thought I just want to ask some questions about some things. And I just started asking her questions about my childhood from 1 to 5. More curious because I just. Some things that are happening with my daughter, she's not sleeping so well sometimes and it really, it affects things, you know, and it's, and it's not her, it's how my nervous system is interacting with, with her. Right. Would be very clear. This has nothing to do with my daughter in the sense that, you know, it's not her fault. I'm not blaming her. It's how I'm interacting with things. And I started. I wanted to get some clarity, to start to understand in a deeper way, like, what was my upbringing like during those years. And so we just went. My mother and I just went down the rabbit hole. It was really interesting. And. And I. There were just moments where she was writing back and telling me what was happening. And I'll share some of it in a second. I just started crying. I'm like, man, like as a little kid. And I wasn't feeling sorry for myself. I was just feeling the. The tension and the fear. What I. What I felt and experienced back then. I was. I was asking her about my sleep and how I was. Because my daughter and I are very familiar, are very similar.

[A]

How old is she now?

[B]

She's 4.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Beautiful.

[B]

Yeah. So we're very, very similar in many respects, right? Yeah. We're both pretty. Can be emotionally dysregulated. Very right. Brain dominant emotionally.

[A]

Her father's daughter.

[B]

Yeah. 100%.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

She looks like me too. She looks a little bit like Christine as well, for sure. But we're very alike. And so that's what triggers me is I'm seeing so much, you know, when I. When I get triggered. I'm not always like that, but, you know, enough to me want to make some changes about it. And I was just asking about my sleep. And I'll give you an example, right? And this is. I've made peace with my father. My father and I are really close. This is, you know, I'm 44 years old, so it's taken some time. I actually probably took. Probably at the age of about 34, 35. Like, I. I made peace with my dad. I'm at more peace with my dad than I am with my mum. That's another story.

[A]

We're like the same person. But continue.

[B]

Yeah. And so I'll give you an example. Like, I wasn't sleeping very well at night for a few different reasons. Had some lung stuff and I had eczema and some skin stuff. I just wasn't sleeping well. And so I would cough or I'd wake up and my dad would just yell. Like, shut the fuck up. Like, he would just yell and we'd all sleep in the same room. We just. We didn't have much, you know, and so he would just fucking yell. And then my mum would yell at him. Right. I mean, I feel like fucking crying.

[A]

I want to cry too. Yeah.

[B]

It's just. And but that was constant, you know, like, I would drop a spoon and he would lose his shit. We couldn't, you know, we couldn't move in the morning because if he woke up, he would just start yelling and banging and throwing stuff, and it was just crazy. And so I have a very jacked up nervous system. So when my daughter is in a tantrum, I start getting jacked up. And when I said before, I should probably explain this because I think it's helpful. When I said before, I collapse time and expand time somatically, not. Not intellectually. So it's not verbal, it's not a thought process that comes later. But somatically I go to. My freedom's been taken away from me. Is she going to become a drug addict when she's a teenager? Like, what's my life going to be like? What? Like, I start catastrophizing my life and her life and, and all these, like, she gonna have friends? Is she gonna struggle making friends? Like, all in fractions of a second.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so my survival strategy. Cause everyone's different. Some people just shut down and I have the shutdown. I can shut down as well. But I go to anger. Cause anger for me is control. I didn't have the capacity to be in control when I was younger. I was very disempowered, very scared. But as an adult, I'm very empowered. I get scared as an adult, sure. But I move through my fear and I. And I go like. I use anger as a means to control. So it's not like I scream at my daughter. I don't do that. I may raise my voice. And I feel terribly guilty about that. I don't. I don't do anything like my father used to do. But inside I'm rattled. And so I lose my patience with her instead of like really sitting with her. And this isn't 100% of the time, but it happens. And so for me, I get angry, I get frustrated as a means to control. And that's the reactive survival pattern for me. For other people, it's different, right? And for some people, it's also very familiar. And so my work is in. Again, like go back full circle to your question. Is the more proactive I am in clocking more time, in calm. When those moments arise, there's a massive. There's a. Not a massive, but there's a bigger delay. So then I can access tools, like I said, in real time. And I can remind myself, oh, this is my little boy that's just rattled right now. And it's my adult self that's seeking control as a protector. And I can. I can pull back from that because she's a little girl. She's just doing the thing, and she's my daughter. And that was then. This is now. Now is different. And that can calm in the moment. So I can be calm for her and for me and for my little boy. Right. The. The part of me that. That lives in my psychology, that's smaller. We're all dictated to by that. If anyone thinks that they're adults, they're not. Right. They're just 100 big bodies, little kids and big bodies.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Till you make the unseen scene.

[A]

We're the same per. We're obviously not, but we're so the same person. So I had a very volatile father, a very codependent mother. I grew up in a ton of fear. My default is anger because it's my source of control. I became very empowered later in life. And successful. And successful. And I've forgiven my father. And I have a beautiful. Really? I'm 44 as well, but it's my mom that I still fully haven't fully fucking healed from. Wild. And then as you're, you know, mapping back to your book. I wrote a book, the Light Work, and it's divided into three sections. Inner light, outer light, future light. So it's like inner work, outer relationships, then? Like the sacred. Yeah.

[B]

Which is.

[A]

Yeah, right. It's the journey. It's so wild. Keep going. Meta Stephanos Listening to you, this is really in the threading, the thread of, like, the inner work, which you've just so beautifully defined of, how you really practice that to this day, what it's rooted in, how you can map it. Your relationship with your daughter is such a beautiful example, and thank you for sharing that. So much of your work is rooted in relationships. And I kind of mapped the inner work in my story of, like, we can do all of this work, but when we go out into the world and become intimate with others, it's really where it can get us tripped up all over again.

[B]

Yeah. Rubber. Rubber hits the road.

[A]

Exactly. It's where the rubber hits the road. And you've been with your partner for a while, and I've been with mine. And I know that there's a lot of women listening that are on different stages of their journey within romantic relationships, whether they're single, whether they're just now getting started into a romantic partnership. And it's exciting, but there's this sacredness that you really talk about intimacy you talk about the distinction between like having sex and like sacred sexuality, which I love and I'd love to crack into that. And I'd also love to talk about the ways that we maintain that, that intimacy because I think we can get bored. I think we can become afraid of it. If we're in the early stages of it, we might avoid it because it's too much and we know subconsciously how much it's going to trigger us. So let's start with the difference between sex and sacred sexuality because I think it's a very big, beautiful part of this book and your work in the world.

[B]

Yeah. I'll just share with you a distinction as well. Not a distinction, rather I think a piece of information that could be useful because I try so hard and I put a lot of energy and effort to essentially just be a more present father, which obviously entails doing my own inner work that also comes with some level of exhaustion or some level of, you know, it's tiring. And the unfortunate part is. And you know, and my wife and I, we work on this, we're very cognizant of it is sometimes that leaks out into our relationship. And so it's like I have compassion fatigue because I've had so much that I'm. And then I lose that compassion momentarily for my wife or you know, we feel an experience disconnection because of the work we're doing with our daughter. And again, I don't want to paint her as this terrible little four year old that runs around being a tyrant.

[A]

Yeah, she's beautiful.

[B]

And when. And let's be. Yeah, yeah, when she sleeps, she's a very different child. Her disposition is very different behavior.

[A]

But are we all, when we sleep and don't sleep.

[B]

For sure. For sure.

[A]

If I ever see a, like a three year old having a tantrum like a little girl at a restaurant, I'm like, I feel you, girl. I wish I could do that. It's no longer socially acceptable for me to do that.

[B]

But you go or just haven't slept. I mean, totally.

[A]

Yeah, that totally being resourced.

[B]

Yeah. So I just wanted to just share that because it's, it's something that. And I think it feeds into your question around how do you sustain connection and intimacy and long term partnership and so forth. And there are, I think a few foundational truths that need to be shared amongst couples. But I'll go and answer or explore your question around, you know, sex and sacred sexuality. I think there's two parts of sacred sexuality. The practice of Intercourse and the practice of physical intimacy. Right. And so then, then there's techniques that are associated with that. Whether that's, you know, karma sutra based, whether that's Taoist, whether it's something else. Right. Tantra. Not. Not relevant. But there's that component of it that you could say makes the act of sex more intentional, more deliberate, deeper in its physical capacity, but also in its spiritual and emotional capacity. And I'm not going to sit here and say, hey, do this technique and do that technique. I mean, go on the Internet, get a book. It's easy, Right. It's in my book as well. There are practices there, but there's not. That's not, to me, the most important part of that, of that term, sacred sexuality or intentional sexuality or healthy sexuality. Right. For me, what's more important, and this is also connected to our ability to maintain and increase connection, intimacy, attraction, magnetism over time. At the beginning, learning how to do it in a healthy way, letting it grow naturally, letting that attraction grow naturally, fostering a healthy connection and nurturing that as well is most couples. And Christine and I have suffered this as well because we've been so busy in our lives, in our entrepreneurial journeys, in our parenthood and in survival mode at times. Right?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Where we neglect the intentional practice of revealing truth in the relationship. Let me be a little more granular now.

[A]

Great.

[B]

When we have withholds, when we have judgments, when we have resentments in a relationship that are not expressed and not voice, and there's no agreements or platform for those to be expressed, magnetism diminishes, attraction diminishes. How can you be attracted to someone that you're angry at secretly and you're not telling them.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you may not even know because you're just in this habit, in this loop of every little thing that they do that annoys you, you don't say it because you don't want to roc the boat, because you're already overstretched. Because most couples, the world that we live in, the western world that we live in, we're so stretched under resourced. Double jobs, triple jobs. Like we're, in so many ways we are. Right. And so there's no. There's no space for, hey, I don't want any more conflict. But that conflict still lives in you.

[A]

Totally.

[B]

So you either have a deliberate practice of what, as an example, once a month, get together, and on a Tuesday evening, you will share all your withholds or your judgments, all the stories you're making up about your husband about yourself, about what's happening in your life. And he's a soundboard. He listens, he attunes, he repeats back. He empathizes, he doesn't defend, he doesn't. It may not even be about him. Some parts may be, some parts may not be. He doesn't defend, he doesn't justify, doesn't try to fix. He just listens. He's there. And you have communication tools such as imago dialogue, nonviolent communication. There are many different communication tools you can utilize. And you have agreements around that. And then let that be until you're fully shared, fully expressed. Then on Thursday, he does the same thing, right? And you guys have a space to create space in your body. So let go of the psychological heaviness and baggage that we hold on to just from the day to day. Just try it, right? Just try it. And then tell me, send me a message on dm, whatever, on Insta. Tell me if attraction doesn't grow from the repetition of that practice. Because you're not holding on to baggage now you've got space to actually see your partner as a human, right? And to remember why you're attracted to them and to actually see instead of holding on to the things that you're angry about. You see the way they do things for you or the way they move through the world, or you forgot how nice their jaw is or how lovely their hair is or whatever. Whatever it is, right? It doesn't matter. Yeah, but you create space for magnetism and attraction to be present because you're not holding on to the heaviness of this person's not safe. Because I have a resentment towards them that's unspoken. Because unconsciously what that means is if I can't speak my resentment to you, you're unsafe. You won't listen, you're untrustworthy. I mean, no, let's be real for a sec. No one wants to have sex with someone that's familiar that they've been with for years. Because you've already. You're already against that fight. You're already fighting, so to speak, against familiarity or against novelty and variety. So you're not going to want to have sex with someone that's not new to you, you know nothing about. There's no fantasy that you can really build because you know so much. You know so much about them. That's another conversation. And you're holding something against them that you don't even know that you may be holding against them. How is that going to be attract. How is attraction going to be there. This is why people veer so they look for novelty and variety outside of the relationship. I did that for so many years because I wasn't looking at myself. I wasn't speaking my truth. Truth. There's no truth in relationships these days because people get scared to speak their truth because they're scared of the rejection or the humiliation. So they create novelty and variety either in sexual partners or emotional affairs or whatever outside the relationship or in their own creative endeavors, their own entrepreneurial journeys, their friends group. They're going to travel and do mountaineering, whatever they do. There's nothing wrong with any of that stuff, by the way. It's a come from.

[A]

Except for the cheating.

[B]

Sure. Yeah, of course. Yes, absolutely. It's the. It's the come from. And even that. Just again, not to be controversial, but there's nothing wrong with any of it. Actually, there's nothing wrong with the cheating either. Where it's misaligned is that you're doing that and not being truthful.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I'm doing that and not being truthful. I'm traveling and climbing mountains, which. That feels okay, right? Like that's okay. That's acceptable. But am I running from something? Because that's not acceptable either, actually, just because I'm climbing a mountain or I'm going on trips, or I'm justifying my time away because it's on business. But underneath that am I relieved and reprieved to be away. As an example, let's. Let's be real for a second because some people I work with, couples where cheating. Couples have both cheated. That's actually not the issue. Right. They're actually both okay with that. I can forgive that. They can both forgive each other for that. And there's been extensive cheating. What they're not okay with is how they treat each other. And the cheating is just a byproduct of that. And against an escapism. We're just not real with ourselves. We don't create the space to be real with ourselves and with each other, I should say. And so when we create that space and we commit to that, something shifts in the relationship. And that's where magnetism and attraction can, can grow and flow is. Then you both get creative, you know, then you can. Yeah, I have, I have friends that do role play with each other and they've been together 20 plus years and they will role play, but they also have a very, very clear practice and an agreement of when something feels off, they speak it. Right. I don't hold it in right. Judgments, resentments, withholds that they may have.

[A]

So I want to. This is amazing. So I want to double click into this, creating the space, taking this time. This is a beautiful. Everything you spoke is so true. But I know that there are women listening, and I've gotten this question a lot in my own community because I have a very. I've been with my husband for 13 years. We've done so much work together. We are devoted to the path of growth, super conscious. We do this work in our own way. I love it. And I know clearly you walk this walk with Christine and this is what you bring to your clients, but there's women listening right now who are like, yeah, my husband would never do that. I would. I couldn't do, like, a full download with him on Tuesday, and then he goes on Thursday. Like, he's. And I love him and I want to be with him, but I. He's not that. He couldn't meet me there. What do you say to her? What's. Where does she go from? I get this question all the time, Stefan. I was like, what do you do if your man isn't as conscious as you?

[B]

Yeah, I get this question a lot as well.

[A]

Yeah. How do you answer it?

[B]

Is it really true? That's the first thing I'm gonna say. Is it true? Like, is it really, really true?

[A]

So good. Because I had that story about Brian.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it was that story that I was reiterating that was.

[B]

You didn't leave with that just a moment ago.

[A]

I didn't? No, I didn't.

[B]

You just.

[A]

You just said that I have a conscious man.

[B]

Well, yeah. You also just said, you know, we've been together 13 years and we've done deep work together.

[A]

You're right. But it took about seven or eight for us to co create that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We're in very different places.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. So the first thing is. And this is a very individual thing. Right. I think there's. There's two components to this. There's the vulnerability piece, and there's the personal values piece. And so as a partner, if this is really important to you, how can you share that from a vulnerable place, like a really open, transparent place within you? Hey, this matters to me because doing this with you is important to me, because being on this journey together does

[A]

this for me versus how I used to do it? Which was like, scold him. Make him wrong.

[B]

Yeah, you're a piece of shit.

[A]

Shame him. Tell him I would leave him behind. Market it, though. Wrong way.

[B]

Continue. Yeah. We're all selling, right? So. So I think really exposing. Because there's something beautiful that happens when we choose to expose ourselves and we. It's risk. Vulnerability is risk. Vulnerability is not safe. People think, oh, like, if I can be vulnerable with someone, I'm safe. No, actually, you're not safe. That's whole point of vulnerability. So you're not experiencing the fullness of yourself because you're not getting unsafe and risking him saying, you know what, thanks for sharing, I'm not interested, or humiliating you or pushing back or being defensive, which then, because we go, all of us have everything, lives on a spectrum. I was talking about catastrophizing earlier, right? And so this isn't a competition, but everyone catastrophizes, some more than others, right? And so there's some level of catastrophizing that takes places because worst case scenario, thinking to some degree, you may not loop it, you may not be really high on the spectrum of that, but some degree of that, and that's what, what causes resistance in sharing so openly. It's like, well, will he humiliate me? Will he leave me? Will the relationship break up? That's another failed relationship. Oh, and I'm ex. I'm, you know, X, X years old. I'm 40 years old or 35 years old, whatever. Have women coming to me like, I'm 24 and I'm. I'm running out of time. Bless them. Like, again, these are the stories that, you know, you're not. You can be 54, you're not running out of time. No one's running out of time for love. Like, no one's. No. I've seen people get together at 80s plus and be deeply connected. It's beautiful.

[A]

So beautiful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's very real. It's very, very, you know, the belief and the stories we tell ourselves inform what we see in the world as well. So the first part is really being open and vulnerable. And that's a personal practice. The paradox is. Right. You believe in personal development. Not when I say you're not. A person believes. A woman believes in personal development so much. Yeah. She's not doing the thing that she wants him to do.

[A]

Right? Totally. I totally. I would use my vulnerability as a weapon. Like, I would get angry and like, I would say what I wanted. And even though I. I felt like it was an invitation, it was infused like a doorway. It was infused with my judgment of him. You know, Like I, I would say, like, this really matters to me. These are my values. In order for us to. To thrive. I need you to go on this journey with me because of. Here's why. This is my deepest desire. I don't want to do this alone. I want to do this in co creation, all of those things. And I got better at like putting it on him. Like, you need to do this for you. It was like, I want this for us, but it was still rash in anger. Does that make sense?

[B]

Yeah, you have to ask. And then he's not just doing it with you and he's not interested in it the way that you are. And I think lay is even deeper of vulnerability when you. Because you touched on something like. Like what are the fears of being alone? Speak to your aloneness. Speak to your aloneness when you were a child, when you felt isolated, and it reminds you of that, that level of vulnerability.

[A]

You're making me cry. If I could go back to that version of me and us, like, that is really what, where it came from.

[B]

Yeah, of course. Of course it was. You just wanted to be sane.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Want to be alone.

[A]

Totally didn't want to be alone.

[B]

We don't know what we don't know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like hindsight's easy. Yeah.

[A]

So she's listening right now and she's like, okay, I'm vulnerable. I'm gonna go to him.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm gonna tell him, you know, my fears, my sense of, you know, sadness around not having this connection. I want my excitement about it and my. Yes, okay, enjoy. To get him. No, no, no.

[B]

Get him to do nothing.

[A]

To get him to do nothing.

[B]

For the intrinsic value and sake of just sharing your truth and letting it land and how it lands. It lands. So the other parts of that is not attachment and deeper acceptance, but the second part is the personal values. I spoke to. How important is growth to you? How important is it that your husband takes an interest or your partner takes interest in the yoga retreat that you're in or in the path of Christianity that you're following? Like, is it a non negotiable value in your life? Is that calling so high and so truthful to you that if he's not on that path with you, you can't be with him? That's not an ultimatum. That's a personal choice. I also want to say that I've worked with so many couples where I can't tell you how many women have said, personal growth is so important to me. He's just not interested. But fuck, I love him. He looks after me. He's tender. He sees me he listens to me. Just doesn't like some of the practices or the philosophies or the, the spirituality that I'm into. But we just, I just love him and I'm okay with that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's. It's not a. Our coupledom is not a non negotiable in that way. Like so him being interested in what I'm interested in, being on the same path in the way that I'm. Is not a non negotiable for me because he, he fills me up in so many other ways.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And then there are other scenarios where that's not the case.

[A]

Right.

[B]

I have friends that like, I need my woman to be deep. I need her to love and follow Christianity in the way that I do. That's just a clarity that he has to give you an example.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And he's not a rigid person. He's not dogmatic, he's not being extreme. I know him personally. I'm giving you an example of someone I know. Right. It's a beautiful. It just matters to him. And he's clear on that. And so he shares that.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's important to him. Now the thing that we miss, like the non attachment and the acceptance piece is important, but the thing that we miss is that people change. You know, who you were 13 years ago when you first got married, or 14, whenever, however long it was. Right. You just know you're different. And I would say that how you were with him, you know, seven, eight years ago, whenever it was, was perfect.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Couldn't happen any other way.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Because look where you are now.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And you know, perfect.

[A]

And I, I really did thank you for that, all of that. I, I love what you said about unattaching because I actually did. Like I, I was trying to force it down his throat. Angry about it, resentful, marketing it. I work with Annie lala. She always used to say, like, you can't market like you do. Selling a program to your husband, like let go of all of that and accepted him. I did. And unattached from the outcome that I thought I needed from him and just went on and lived my own life and practiced my own practices and was very much like that. You were the muse, woman. I. I was the muse.

[B]

You lived your life and he saw that.

[A]

That was the point.

[B]

You got excited.

[A]

That's exactly.

[B]

Inspired.

[A]

That's exactly right.

[B]

Guys, you a couple personal questions.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Just around when you were younger, when you were younger, did you experience judgment from people around you all the time? Yeah. And like, people wanted you to change and be different my whole life and not be yourself.

[A]

Yeah. From like, little girl to, like, graduating

[B]

post college and I don't know your husband's journey. Did he ever experience, knowing him, did he ever experience any of that?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Can you see how someone that he's committed to and that he liked and this isn't having to go at you, by the way, because I do the same thing that you're talking about. Dealt with Christine as well. Like, I wanted to be different. Yeah. Because of my own insecurities or my own survival patterns of my own sense of control. Can you see how in those times I'm using you as an example and myself. Right. Because it's a very common question, get asked in podcasts all the time. Can you see how you trying to force him to change is him just re experiencing the trauma of his childhood around being judged and like, why can't I just be me? I just want to be. I just want to be me. Can't you just love me for me? I don't want to do those things right now. I just want to be me. Stop trying to change me. And then he has to contort himself and wear masks, and then he builds, what, resentment?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what does that do?

[A]

Erodes the connection and magnetism and connect space.

[B]

No.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And more distance, I should say.

[A]

Yeah. No, I mean, he's shout out to Brian. He's here. He's grateful. I. I know. I really do. I really do see this. And I loved how you unfolded what's possible, because I get that question all the time. And I think it's, you know, what you were saying at the very beginning, no one wants to show. It's all a highlight reel. No one's showing the truth of the dimensionality of really what it took and what it takes. And my relationship with my husband has been my greatest container for my own growth. And I think that's really what you invite in the book around relating and relationships being a place. Yes. Where that intimacy. And I love the way you broke down the distinction of sacred sexuality, but it is the greatest container for you to look at the. In the mirror and heal that. That inner child and do that work in union. I really believe that's where we do our deepest. Our deepest healing work.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

It really, really is. And so what do you have to say? Just a few last questions for you. I could talk to you forever. To the women that don't have a relationship right now, because being single, back to my coach, you probably know Annie Lala, she lives in Austin. She was on my podcast. She's like, don't say the word single. Just say, I'm available for love. And I loved that. But there are women in my community I'm friends with that have been without a partner for a while that are really trying to call that in and feel like either they know that their, you know, stuff is in their own way, or they're really seeking. Actually, let's just stick on the spiritual partner. They're looking for that in a man, and they can't find it. And their standards have risen because they're maybe a little bit older in their lives and they know what they want and they know who they are, but there's a hunger and a loneliness, and she wants to be turned on. What do you say to her?

[B]

Yeah. So to the. To the woman that is open to love and seeking love, don't lower your standards. Don't lower your standards, but lower your conditions. And so look at. I'll share a story that Christine shares, and she would share it far better than me, because it's her story, but I've heard it enough, and it was part of what brought us together as well. She had a list. She had a checklist of what a man needs to look like. When I came into her life, I did not meet that checklist. Like, some aspects of it, sure. But before I came into her life, she tore up that checklist and said, God, I'm clearly not choosing. Choose for me, you know? And so I think that's very powerful. And to be clear about the standards and the conditions, it's that the conditions of those checklists, of the stories we have of how it needs to look. Who am I to tell you what kind of partner or relationship you want? No, I'm no one. I'm not. Definitely not. Do not take advice from anyone about what you want, you know, what you long for and what you desire as a woman, as a man, as whatever, whoever you are in the world, wanting what you want. And be open to looking at what you want. If it's not quote, unquote, working for you, if there's a mismatch and a disconnection between your deepest desires and what's actualizing in your life in a physical way, in a material way. Just be open to looking at that without judgment. But if you're lonely, great. Go into the loneliness, explore it for a little bit. Don't think that having a spiritual partner is going to fix your loneliness, because it fucking won't. 100%. I guarantee I put all my net worth on it. Give my left arm. I like my left arm. Take my left arm off, I put it on there. Will not satisfy you, guarantee you. So these are the opportunities that we have. And unfortunately, there isn't a nice answer that maybe you don't need a spiritual man. What does a spiritual man even mean? That example I gave before. There. There are several that I. That example specifically about a woman being really deeply on a spiritual journey, on her personal growth journey, and her partner really not being in that space at all yet there's such a deep love and affection they have for each other. The way that she wants to be cared for, he cares for her. We think we want things. This is for all of us, but do we really want those things?

[A]

Right.

[B]

So again, I'm not saying you don't want a spiritual man going to define what that is for you, but if something's not working, per se, there's that mismatch. It's a beautiful opportunity to just sit with yourself. And I get it. I've been there. How long do I have to sit with myself for? I've done, quote, unquote, so much work. I've been doing this for 10 years. Yeah, true. All of that is true. And there's a level of resistance there and non acceptance and judgment. And whenever we're in judgment, non acceptance and resistance, there's blocks. Of course, this blocks the things that we say we want.

[A]

Yeah. So good. When someone's done reading the book, turned on and tuned in, what do you want? They've read it cover to cover, they closed the book. If you could say in a few sentences what you want that person to know or remember when they're done reading,

[B]

to remember their worthiness, to remember the value that they are, to carry an intelligent hope in their heart that the life that they want is very possible. And there are a lot of stories. You know, there are a lot of stories of clients and my own. My own story, but really the stories of so many different clients that I've worked with over the last 25 years or so where there's been such profound shifts. Some very subtle, some really sort of big and overt, but very relatable stories of desperation and fear and life not working and chaos that transmutes into something very, very different. And it's very. It's very possible. It really is. And everyone, you know, something to. To. To what you said earlier, and this may be an uncomfortable truth that I constantly wrestle with myself. When you asked about. She's been single for a while and she's lonely and she's. She wants that partnership and that relationship. That's the vision she has for herself. And I said to you. One of the things I said, I said, who am I to tell you you should have that you shouldn't when you're going to have it? I don't know. But none of us have that control. Maybe, and this is the uncomfortable truth, you will never be in the partnership you want. I don't say that to be harsh or to be rude or mean. I say it because that. That is a gateway when you. When you step into that, not as that's your focus. I'm never going to have a partner. I'm never going to have the relationship I want. But you step into the what if? And you can really go into the stuff that brings up for you, and you go into that vortex and you dig that hole. And it's the loneliness and the fear and the unworthiness. Paradoxically, you go with that. There's an equilibration that takes place. There's a freedom that comes from actually accepting that that's when you get the thing that you want.

[A]

That's the paradox, that. That's the codes. Thank you for dropping that.

[B]

Yeah. Call it that.

[A]

I like that you call it the paradox. I call it the code. I saw it.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

So. So understanding.

[B]

That's the heroines and the hero's journey. That's the. That's hard to do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I. I had to wrestle with. I'm never going to be in a relationship. No one's ever going to love me because I'm not. Not going to tell people what I've done. I'm not going to pretend I didn't have sex with prostitutes, that I didn't cheat. I'm not going to pretend about my life. I had to realize. And I actually thought, well, is anyone going to want to be with me? Who's going to want to be with that? Like, that's. That's untrustworthy. They're going to think, am I going to do that again? I had to go. I had to face that gauntlet of I'm. I'm never going to be with anyone, but can I be okay or even not okay with that? But that's a real. That's a possible reality, because I'm not. I'm so committed to the truth. Like, I have to be committed to the truth. I can't pretend none of that stuff happened.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So I ran the risk that's the risk. That's the fear. That's the vulnerability. So I invite people into those risks. There's something there.

[A]

There's so much there.

[B]

Yeah. So much there. Well, better said. Yes.

[A]

So much. Everything is there.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Even better said.

[A]

Stefanos, you're amazing. Thank you. Thank you.

[B]

Reflection of you.

[A]

Thank you, truly. This. I could talk to you forever. Thank you for coming today. It is such a gift. The work that you do, the presence that you are. This book that you've released, we tuned in and this conversation, like I said, I think turned a lot of people on. That was the whole point. I have just a few final quick fire questions for you. Do you have a favorite spiritual book and a favorite business book?

[B]

Walking with the Himalayan Masters is a beautiful book by. There's two books, actually. It's both by Swami Rama, Living with the Himalayan Masters and Walking with a Himalayan Masters. Actually, sorry. Living with Himalayan Masters is by one of his proteges. Anyway, Walking with Himalayan Masters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Business book. I might have to get back to you on that. I'm not sure.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Yeah. But, yeah, I'm not.

[A]

You've just built a such an amazing business. I thank you, truly. You have. You're. You're an entrepreneur.

[B]

I very much. I love. I embrace that title. I love it. I'm very, very creative. I will say, there's one book. Is it the best business book I've read? Probably not, but it came at a really pivotal time in my life, in my sort of like, early to mid-30s, when I was in massive transition. It was a Tony Robbins book. It was. It was at the seven. It must have come out, like 10 years ago. It was one. It was a Tony Robbins were a big, thick one.

[A]

Yeah, I can see it.

[B]

Yeah. Be hard back. Anyway, that was really pivotal for me at that time. It was very inspiring.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

At that time for me. So that was. That was something.

[A]

Sometimes those books, they're like, not our favorites, but the books that we needed when we needed it and they changed the course.

[B]

Yeah. And Ray. And Ray Dalio's book, New World Order or New. New. That. That's a great book as well. I mean, that's. I guess that's a little bit less business, but more geopolitical and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Macroeconomics. But yeah. Good.

[A]

I love him.

[B]

Yeah, he's so good.

[A]

Okay. Do you believe in aliens? Yeah, of course you do.

[B]

100%.

[A]

I'm a very public Pleiadian, so I just love to ask that question. Do you. You know, you're obviously on this beautiful path of your own spiritual practice and consciousness. But is there a specific deity, guide, angel, ancestor, avatar, archetype that you personally have a relationship with?

[B]

I'm a. I really tune in to Advaita Vedanta. And so as a, you know, as a sect of Hinduism, I guess it comes with many different deities and gods and so forth. But then I, I also, you know, I also follow the path of agapistic ethics which is essentially the, the ethics of Christ. And then I know. I think I'm a little bit of a polyspiritualist, if you like.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

Polyspiritualist, Spiritualist. Nothing specific comes to mind. You know, I. Very randomly though. Do you know the superhero? Well, He's a superhero. Dr. Manhattan?

[A]

No.

[B]

Do you know Dr. Man? He's an interesting superhero. And there are times in my life where I've been very disarmed or down. I'll often have his, his archetype in my mind. And I'll see him as a. As a support. Yeah, he's an interesting. He's a very interesting character. And his powers are very interesting as well.

[A]

I have to look. Dr. Manhattan.

[B]

Dr. Manhattan. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I will.

[A]

I'll clock that.

[B]

It's a little random.

[A]

No, it's not random at all. It's actually very full. Archangel. Jesus Christ. Dr. Manhattan. It goes full circle to what you were saying about yourself as a little boy and what you loved then. Very, very beautiful, actually. Okay, final question. What does it mean to you to be a co. Creator of the New Earth Rising at this time?

[B]

I've been thinking a lot about legacy since I had my daughter. Well, my wife had a daughter. To be more accurate. I contributed to it. I've really been sitting with Legacy. And where I have arrived thus far is that it is my duty, particularly for my daughter. But I definitely expand this into, you know, my wife, particularly my wife as well. Because, you know, we often hurt people that we love the most. And so it's very important that I'm. I'm more present to this there, but also to the world. Like what I want my legacy to be. And what I want my legacy to be, which is, answers your question directly, is that when I'm making human contact with sentient beings that I'm leaving them better than what they were. Meaning. Meaning this. I'm gonna be very specific here. That their nervous systems feel relaxed. That there's an attunement that takes place, that they feel safer. But I really have been thinking about my daughter a lot. When I leave this earth, I would love nothing, nothing more for my daughter to remember me as. You know, daddy was safe and I have a long way to go. I think what that does is it's not about her or about people. It's about what lives in my nervous system. So there has to be a commitment to that deeper inner work specifically around my nervous system. Because if I'm not regulated and if I'm not settled and attuned and loving within myself doesn't pass on to anyone else. And so I think when you ask about the co creation, the best thing I can do is just be a safer space for myself and for people that come into contact with me. You know, I don't think there's much more else I can do than that. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah.

[A]

Thank you so much. Appreciate it for all of it. Yeah, I appreciate you. I know everyone listening does too. This is incredible. Everyone go buy Stefanos book. We'll put it in the show notes. Go follow him on the gram.

[B]

Your.

[A]

Your content by the way is so beautiful. So of service. It's such a deep reflection of who you are.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Matches.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's not always the case. Thank you for that final answer and thank you for everything that you shared today.

[B]

Yeah. Appreciate you.

[A]

Yeah. Appreciate you.

[B]

Can I share something on the book if that's okay.

[A]

Please do.

[B]

Yeah. There's. You can get the book at tunedin and turnedonbook.com a stack of bonuses there that are really, really special and one of them is Christine and I having a. It's like a reverse interview about the book. Christine interview. She came up with a name as well, by the way. She did of the book, of course. Yeah.

[A]

Of course. She.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's brilliant.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. And there's. That's a really special, you know, bonus, so to speak. And that's. It's really quite heartwarming. And it was. We were putting it off because we're just so busy and. And it was just the perfect timing when we actually did it. We actually were quite connected and it was just. It was just a really beautiful. I really like that. And then the audiobook as well. I, I do record it in my voice.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

And yeah, I'm really happy I was able to do that. And there was. There's a lot more in that because when I was reading it I just kept adding things to it.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

The audio may be inaudible maybe.

[A]

What a gift. Absolutely. I love that you got to read your own book.

[B]

And I was really grateful.

[A]

Are magic. And that's such a beautiful as an author myself. You know, you pour a lot of attention into those bonuses.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, they go. They're on. They're on purpose. And so the fact that you have those available is amazing and complimentary as well. Yeah. So we'll send everybody and the link in the show notes and again, appreciate it. Thank you, my friend.

[B]

Yeah.