Liza Colón-Zayas of "The Bear" speaks honestly about her struggles with faith

Summary

The Spiritual Life with Fr. James Martin, S.J.
Episode: “Liza Colón-Zayas of ‘The Bear’ speaks honestly about her struggles with faith”
Date: May 12, 2026
Host: Fr. James Martin, S.J. (A); Producer: Maggie Van Dorn (C); Guest: Liza Colón-Zayas (B)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid conversation between Fr. James Martin and Emmy-winning actress Liza Colón-Zayas, best known for her role in “The Bear.” Liza opens up about her tumultuous faith journey—from a Catholic childhood through involvement in a fundamentalist cult, agnosticism, and finding meaning in ancestry and meditation. The episode centers on authenticity, struggle, ancestral connection, and the search for a spiritual life outside traditional religious narratives. The conversation is especially notable for Liza’s vulnerability regarding trauma, spiritual uncertainty, and her evolving image of God.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Liza’s Early Life, Catholic Roots, and Spiritual Wounding

• Catholic Upbringing with Trauma

  • Liza grew up the youngest of five in a Puerto Rican Catholic family in the Bronx. She attended Catholic school until financial hardship forced her transfer ([10:02]).
  • “It was terrifying because in that day…you would get beat, you know, really kind of brutally.”
    — Liza ([10:42])
  • Corporal punishment by teachers instilled fear and a deep suspicion of Catholic authorities.

• Adolescence and Vulnerability to Evangelical Cults

  • Turbulent family life and a search for belonging followed, leading Liza in her teens to read the Bible, then join an evangelical group that was “a hardcore cult” ([11:43]).
  • Her family’s efforts to reach out (“snatch me, put me in a van, and take me to get [deprogrammed]”) failed as the cult isolated her further ([18:57], [19:26]).
  • “My… defect in my character, that I was too weak to serve God or too sinful. It saved my life.”
    — Liza ([19:57])
  • Leaving the cult was fueled by homesickness and the yearning for a fuller, more joyful life.

Faith, Doubt, and Redefining Spirituality

• Agnosticism and Images of God

  • Now, Liza considers herself agnostic: “I’m not arrogant enough to say that there is no God. I take Neil deGrasse Tyson’s line…if there is, [God is] either all good or all powerful, but [not] both.” ([20:12])
  • Cites her personal “negative image of God” from the cult: “God as the parole officer” ([14:52]), vengeful and focused on punishment.
  • Rejection of eternal damnation for loved ones, especially her “beautiful, loving, supportive, gay uncles” ([15:23]).

• Lessons from Mother Teresa

  • Portraying Mother Teresa (in “The Last Days of Judas Iscariot”) revealed that even the most outwardly devout experience deep inner dryness ([21:53]).
  • “She had a crisis of faith. And yet she… still did the work…So respect, but man, to show up…I thought if you just do the work, you’ll get there and…one day you’ll wake up…No. That was wild.”
    — Liza ([21:53])

• Practices Today: Meditation and Gratitude

  • Liza doesn’t affiliate with groups due to trauma, but daily meditation (using apps) and gratitude help her counter anxiety and cynicism ([23:20]).
  • “I have to believe that we all have a purpose.”
    — Liza ([23:20])
  • “Just breathe and be in the moment because I constantly feel anxious…It’s to just get quiet and…trust that…there is enough goodness in the world.”
    — Liza ([24:17])

Ancestry, Intergenerational Trauma, and Advocacy

• Connecting with Ancestors and Identity

  • Liza describes pride in Puerto Rican heritage and surviving ancestral rituals—“there’s a beauty in…not getting completely colonized” ([33:25]).
  • Featured on “Finding Your Roots,” she learned more about her ancestors’ sacrifices and feels “grateful to at least give the ancestors names for the sacrifices that they made” ([26:22]).
  • A moving encounter with a stranger who communicated a message from her grandfather reinforced her sense of being guided and supported ([29:30]).
  • “I believe the ancestors are there. So I don’t know how to put these conflicting things that I believe and don’t believe into one context.”
    — Liza ([30:31])

• Advocacy and Faith as Social Justice

  • “When faith is at its best, it reflects social justice.”
    — Liza ([30:57])
  • Liza feels called to advocacy for Puerto Rico but admits to often feeling “like I’m always running on fumes.”

The Catholic Church, Abuse, and Accountability

• Family Trauma involving Clergy
  • Liza recounts her brother’s sexual abuse by a priest, and the long, unresolved battle for justice ([33:32]).
  • Liza’s message to the Church: “Do the right thing. Handle the settlements. You know, I think — I know — that’s what Jesus would expect of Christians. That’s it.”
    — Liza ([34:52])
  • Fr. Martin issues a heartfelt apology on behalf of the Church, and Liza expresses trust in him.

Dealing with Success and Imposter Syndrome

• Navigating Success with Spiritual Tools
  • Post-Emmy, Liza copes with “imposter syndrome” by returning to her breath, gratitude, and self-compassion ([36:39]).
  • “Imposter syndrome comes tiptoeing all the time…I get afraid that people are gonna see through me and see that I’m a fluke.”
    — Liza ([36:39])

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “If you really feel in your heart and soul that you are an artist and that you can channel humanity, then do it.”
  — Liza ([07:17])

• “I won’t do groups. So I started listening to apps or, you know, YouTube yoga…Just breathe and be in the moment because I constantly feel anxious.”
  — Liza ([24:17])

• “I have to believe that we all have a purpose.”
  — Liza ([23:20])

• “When faith is at its best, it reflects social justice.”
  — Liza ([30:57])

• “My defect in my character…saved my life.”
  — Liza, on leaving the cult ([19:57])

• “She was living a spiritual life, so we’re happy to have her on.”
  — Fr. James Martin ([04:51])

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Liza Introduced, Her Career & Relationship with Fr. Martin: [01:39]–[04:13]
• Liza’s Upbringing and Cult Experience: [10:02]–[19:58]
• Current Spirituality, Agnosticism, Image of God: [20:12]–[21:53]
• Mother Teresa & ‘Spiritual Dryness’: [21:53]–[22:40]
• Meditation, Gratitude Practices: [23:20]–[25:45]
• Ancestry, ‘Finding Your Roots’ Stories: [25:57]–[31:45]
• Puerto Rican Catholicism, Santería: [32:16]–[33:25]
• Family Abuse, Church Accountability: [33:32]–[34:56]
• Imposter Syndrome & Coping With Success: [36:24]–[37:54]
• Audience Question: Faith & Financial Risk: [38:23]–[40:56]

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Audience Question (Leap of Faith & Family Security)

Question: How to justify taking a spiritually fulfilling job that means a pay cut for the family?
— Michael ([38:23])

• Fr. Martin: “It’s a tension…you may not be able to take the most fulfilling job…but…you don’t want to just get a job that’s all about the money. Talking to your spouse…really important.”
• Liza: “Only you and your partner can make it…How greatly will your family suffer?…Maybe you can do the things that are fulfilling on the side…If those compromises are reasonable…try the new thing. List the pros and cons very specifically.” ([39:26])

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Tone and Language

The tone throughout is warm, honest, and empathetic, with a blend of frankness and reflection. Liza’s language is direct and personal, often self-effacing but also empowered. Both Fr. Martin and Maggie Van Dorn provide a supportive, nonjudgmental space for Liza’s vulnerability.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is an unvarnished, deeply personal account of one woman’s spiritual journey through wounds, searching, and new forms of meaning. It stands out for its authentic wrestling with doubt, trauma, and reconstruction of spirituality—offering listeners permission to question, heal, and find their own forms of spiritual life, wherever they may be.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

It reminded me that I need to advocate more for Puerto Rico and educate myself more and lend my voice to some of those causes, make things more equitable. And I think that when, when faith is at its best, it reflects social justice.

[A]

Welcome to the spiritual life. I'm Father Jim Martin. On this podcast, we reflect on how people experience God in their prayer and in their daily lives. And I am joined by my always wonderful producer, Maggie Van Dorn. Maggie, good to be with you.

[C]

It's great to be with you, Jim. And I'm really excited for the guest we have today. This is an interview unlike any other, and that guest is Liza Colon Zaias.

[A]

Yes. My good friend. I think it's the first time I've interviewed a really good friend, and it's a lot of fun. So why don't you tell us for those who don't know about Liza?

[C]

Sure. So Liza Colon Zayas is an American actress and playwright. She was born and raised in the Bronx, New York City, and began her career off Broadway. Liza broke into mainstream theater when she wrote, produced, and starred in a one woman show titled Sista Supreme, a semi autobiographical play in which she chronicles growing up as a Latina woman in New York during the 1970s and 1980s. But Eliza is best known for playing Tina Marrero on the comedy drama series the Bear, for which she won the Primetime Emmy award for outstanding Supporting Actress in a comedy series. In 2024, she became the first Latina to win a Primetime Emmy in that category. So, Jim, how did you first get to know Liza Colonzeus before she was this huge star?

[A]

Yeah, and I have to say, no one, except maybe her mom and her husband, were as excited as I was about the Emmy. It was so great. Way back when, I think in 2004, I was asked to be a theological consultant to a play that was going up off Broadway called the Last Days of Judas Iscariot. And it was written by Stephen Edley Girgis, who ended up also winning a Pulitzer Prize for another one of his plays. It was directed by Philip Seymour Hoffman, the late Philip Seymour Hoffman, and it starred people Like Sam Rockwell, Eric Boghossian. And Liza was playing Mother Teresa.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Yeah. The conceit of the play was.

[C]

Yeah, tell us about the play.

[A]

Yeah, it was putting Judas on trial for the death of Jesus. Right. For betraying Jesus. And they had sort of expert witnesses. And one of the roles that Liza played was Mother Teresa, and she was a phenomenal Puerto Rican accented Mother Teresa. And so I became friends with Liza and her husband David, who's also an actor. People probably know him best, I think, for his role on Dexter. They're a wonderful couple. And, you know, she shared with me her spiritual journey at the time, and it ended up in a book I wrote called A Jesuit Off Broadway. And we've kept in touch. And I really, as soon as we started the show, I said, I really want to have lies on, because it's a really fascinating journey. And as you said, it is an unusual one. And it's the first person on the spiritual life that we've had, you know, who really is struggling with faith, you know, in a serious way, and who describes herself as an agnostic. And I thought, you know, not only for our viewers to come to know Liza herself, to come to know what that journey is like, because that's the journey that so many people are on today.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's incredibly valuable to have someone who is able to share authentically not just their joys, but their pains and their struggles. And, you know, as someone just listening into the conversation, there is a lot of faith present here. It might not be described in super conventional or even totally Catholic terms, but, you know, she speaks a lot about the role of her guardian angels and her ancestors. And, yeah, there's a palpable spirituality I recognize, at least in Liza.

[A]

Yeah, she's living a spiritual life, so we're happy to have her on.

[C]

Now, the audience question that we present to both Father Jim and Liza comes from Michael, and this is a tough one. And Michael asks, how do I justify taking a leap of faith in a new job that is spiritually fulfilling and beneficial to humanity while putting my family at risk due to pay cuts? So stick around, because Father Jim and Liza will tackle that question together later on in the show. And if you have a question you'd like to ask Father Jim, you can write to us at the spiritual [e-mail] well, thanks, Maggie.

[A]

And now onto our conversation with my good friend Liza Colon Zayas. So, Liza Colonzayas, welcome to the spiritual life.

[B]

Thank you, Father Jim.

[A]

So good to have you. And thank you for coming in, too, of course.

[B]

I was happy to get the request from you.

[A]

Well, Liza, we have known each other for a long time. I won't say how long. And I'm really so happy for your recent successes. As you know, you've had success before in different ways. But I would say, if I'm right, nothing like. So, to begin with, I want to ask you not so much a spiritual question, but kind of a life question. What enabled you to persevere in your career?

[B]

I. I had a deep feeling that I can do this really, really with all my heart and soul. And then I had a community of people, and I call them guardian angels, who kept me out of very dark places. So I had that community, and I didn't have any other skills, so I had to stay in it.

[A]

Well, I remember when we met on the set of the last days of Judas Iscariot. I remember talking to a lot of actors, and one of the things that one of them said to me was, it's so difficult because when you go into an audition, you know, they look at you or you say three words and then you're rejected. Right. And it's kind of this personal rejection. Is that what enabled you to kind of continue through this sort of belief in your talents and your love of acting? Because I would imagine it's so. It could be so discouraging.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. You know, when young people ask me, like, what how do I do this? Like, you got to get okay with rejection. If you're willing to, like, go through, like, a thousand. For me, that's not an exaggeration. On my journey, then. Yes, but you just gotta be in rooms. You have to be around people who believe in you, because this is a business and you can be treated as a product. But we have to believe that we have so much more to offer and that we are unique. And stop comparing yourself to other people. You have to be around people who help you do that, and if they don't eliminate them from your circle, if you really feel in your heart and soul that you are an artist and that you can channel humanity, then do it.

[A]

Now, you talked about your guardian angels. Do you mean actual guardian angels, or do you mean people in your life or both?

[B]

Both. I mean, because of my. I don't know what I believe in, I will say that, like, it's a combination of, like, ancestors looking out for me and then just beautiful people who had compassion and empathy and kept me around and encourage me. Those guardian angels, even not just for acting. If it was like When I was first struggling, my first year of college, this counselor named Dr. Joe Jackson, and even though, like, I was a hot mess and he thought I was high all the time, but I wasn't. I was allergic and on Benadryl because we had a cat, but I was struggling in life, and he would just sit and listen to me and give me guidance. And I didn't find out till way later that he thought I was high on drugs, but he was there. And. Yeah, so people like that.

[A]

That's beautiful. It's amazing when we meet people who are doing this and they don't expect any reward. Right? I mean, you're not well known at that time. You're a college student. And he's doing it just out of the goodness of his heart. Now, we talked about this when we were on the set of Judas and when I was writing that book at Jesuit, Off Broadway. You have a really interesting religious upbringing, so can we open that up? And can you talk about your Catholicism, your Catholic mom and my religious.

[B]

My whole upbringing, it's a lot of plot twists, so I'm gonna try to reduce it as much as possible. I was the youngest of five Catholic family, grandparents, and my dad left when I was a year old, but the youngest of five, and we used to go to Catholic school, so I went pre K, you know, and then up until, I think, the third or fourth grade. And it was terrifying because in that day, you know, you would get beat, you know, really kind of brutally.

[A]

And did you get beaten?

[B]

I did. In the second grade? Well, in the first grade. Partly. In every grade.

[A]

By your teachers or.

[B]

Yeah, the first time was I misunderstood a direction and, you know, I was little and I was made an example of and got spanked in front of the class. And so that's how it started. So my fear of any Catholic authority figures was right then and there and carried through. And then my mom had to take us out because she couldn't afford to have all five kids as a single mother struggling in Catholic school, so we had to go to public school. In my teenage years, due to a lot of instability and turbulence in the family, I started, you know, drinking and getting high and.

[A]

And just for our listeners, this is in the Bronx.

[B]

This is in the. Yeah, we lived in the Bronx. And my mom was searching for something, and, I don't know, my cousin gave me a Bible, so I started reading the Bible. And then one day I was walking down the street on Fordham Road, and these young evangelical, you know, maybe 20 somethings approached me and started Talking to me about Jesus and getting saved and all of this. And eventually I. I went with them and I became a born again Christian. Fast forward to. They were a hardcore cult. And my mother, by the time my mom started seeing the results of that, like rejecting family, rejecting anything that could be secular, and the whole point is to isolate you from your family, it was too late. I was already deep into it. Left my home at 18 with them, went with them to one of their locations out in Philly. I was there for nine months. I thought my family didn't care about me, but they, my. Their attempts to reach out were being shut down. So I was never getting their letters or their phone calls. Further isolating that. But inside, like, I felt like I was living a double life. Because they're, you know, we're human beings. We're supposed to be looking for joy. Yeah, sure, yes, to be in service, but, like, joy. And it was joyless and it was miserable, but I had to put on a happy face. And if you didn't, it's because you were lacking in your faith and you were shamed. Eventually, we went to the next level, which means you're moving to a different house that was in Brooklyn. And being back in New York stirred up a lot of feelings of missing my family and missing life and wanting to be in a relationship and go to the beach. I don't know. Just the most basic things of being alive. And it got to a point where I. I finally left that cult. But I wasn't deprogrammed in my mind. So I always thought, this, this is temporary. I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna devote my life to their version of serving Jesus, which, that's maybe for another time, what that looked like. But in that way, I was slowly able to get rest, get sleep, be taken care of, and eventually slowly break out of the fear of God. Like an unhealthy fear of God. And now I'm at a place where I don't believe if there is a God, there's no fear, there's no punishment, you know, otherwise, it's blackmail.

[A]

Do you know you gave me years ago. I don't know if you remember this. One of my favorite negative images of God, which I use with people, meaning you gave me an image that I say, this is the way God is not. And your image, I don't know if you remember, it was God as the parole officer. And I use it because it is not simply God is the judge. It's, you've already done something bad. You know, was this the God that was presented to you in the. In the cult? Sort of the God, the sort of vengeful judge judging God?

[B]

It was very focused on the apocalypse and end times. And it's like, oh, it's in the Bible, so therefore it's fact. How does the rest of the world not see this now? You know, but not knowing that the Bible had been written, rewritten, retranslated 50 ways from Sunday. And so now I'm like, okay, there are principles, sure, that I. And values that I respect, but there is no way I'm gonna believe that my beautiful, loving, supportive, gay uncles are being punished for all of eternity. I don't accept that.

[A]

Yeah, I don't accept that either. So I'm curious. What do you think you were looking for in the cult and what enabled you to leave? You mentioned being around your family. I'm curious. Like, the entrance and the exit.

[B]

Well, you know, my family was in turmoil, and so they presented this group like they were called the Church of Bible Understanding. They were young. They looked happy. They looked accepting. They had a communal lifestyle, and that represented a stable family to me, and that's what I needed, you know, And I was struggling with a lot of shame from my upbringing in ways that I was traumatized and it wasn't processed. We couldn't even talk about these things. And so I felt like this was a new. I was giving a new start and recreating myself rather than being able to honestly process pain and hurt.

[A]

And what enabled you to leave was sort of seeing your family and being part of the community again in New York.

[B]

And, yeah, being in New York, going into Manhattan every day, and just, you know, familiarity and knowing that that sanctuary was a train ride away. And so one day, the guy who used to take the train home because you traveled in pairs to keep an eye on each other. And so the guy who had picked me up to take me to the train showed up to my job, and I wasn't there. I bolted and I went home.

[A]

Were there any repercussions? Meaning, like, did they come after you in any way?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And in fact, I was home for two weeks, and it was endless phone calls. And then one day, they just showed up at my mom's house. And the guilt, you know, the fear of burning in hell as a backslider got me back in the van and going with them, but it wasn't enough to keep me there. I left again because I got a taste of, like, I cannot continue to live, like, this lack of sleep Shame being used basically to recruit. And I was really good at it. And ultimately it was to serve this man who would. He would dress like Che Guevara and claim that all of this money was going to help orphans in Haiti. And meanwhile, he's building a mansion.

[A]

Yeah, we've heard that story before. Where was your mom in all this? Because your mom's still a devout Catholic,

[B]

and, yeah, she was overwhelmed and I guess feeling helpless. They actually at one point tried to get one of these, a deprogrammer. So they invited, you know, they tried to get together and meet me in Brooklyn and try to take me out to lunch. And their plan was to snatch me, put me in a van, and take me to get.

[A]

This is your family's plan?

[B]

Yeah, so it was my mom, my siblings and I. You know, since you're never allowed to be alone with family members. It didn't. They couldn't do it, but it didn't last. And ultimately, like, my. What I looked at was like a defect in my character, that I was too weak to serve God or too sinful. It saved my life.

[A]

Leaving.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So where are you now, would you say? Because we've talked over the years about your journey, and I know our listeners would be interested in the rest of the journey and where you are now spiritually, with your image of God and Jesus and all that.

[B]

This is the way I make sense of it, I guess. I'm an agnostic now. I'm not arrogant enough to say that there is no God. I take Neil DeGrasse Tyson's line, which is, I don't know if there is or isn't a God, but if there is, he is either all good or all powerful, but he is in both. And that's where I stand, that if there is God, he's all good and means well, but not all powerful. And that makes sense to me.

[A]

Yeah, that's the famous sort of philosophical conundrum. Yeah. He's either all powerful, you know, and if he's all powerful, then, you know, why would bad things happen? Or he's not all powerful, but he's all good, and therefore he can't prevent things from happening. Yeah. It's interesting for me, and I know we've talked about this personally. For me, it's kind of an invitation to believe in a God that you don't understand, you know, can you still believe in that God even though we don't understand that mystery completely? I'm curious. What would you say you learned from playing Mother Teresa now? So for listeners we first met, as I mentioned on the set of this play, the Last Days of Judas Iscariot, very first time we met. And you were, as I remember, a Puerto Rican Mother Teresa. Right. And I thought you did such a great job and you were sort of in the midst of this journey. Right. This spiritual journey. So what did you learn from that and from her? As someone who is kind of an agnostic, you know, and was back then,

[B]

I had no idea that she had a crisis of faith. And yet she. But she still did the work. You know, she has some views that I was like, eh, I don't know. But at the end of the day, she did the work for the most helpless. So respect, but man, to show up, I'm thinking like, oh, if you just do the work, you'll get there and somehow one day you'll wake up and you'll be like, oh, all Zenned out and no. And so, yeah, that was wild to see somebody who is so devoted and yet doesn't even believe it anymore.

[A]

Well, or she didn't have. I think my way of saying it would be she believed it, but she didn't have any of these experiences. She was just kind of dry inside. So for listeners who don't know, she had this crisis of faith where she. She had these very powerful, as you know, spiritual experiences early on and then nothing. It was very dry and she had to just kind of go on fumes, kind of spiritual fumes and just out of a sense of duty and fidelity and. Yeah, no, I loved your take on Mother Teresa. There are clips of you online too, doing that. So what would you say your spiritual practices are today and how would you define your. Your own spirituality?

[B]

I don't. I take it a day at a time. I try to meditate every day, but I'm not doing it every day. But I have my meditation apps. I did it today. And I really find myself constantly going back to gratitude and listening for gratitude. And that's how I try to stay out of falling into just deep, dark cynicism. I have to believe that we all have a purpose.

[A]

Tell me about your meditation. How did that start and what do you do and what's it like and what happens?

[B]

You know, I would just dabble in yoga every now and then. I never formally kind of went to a center where people do these things. I'm deathly afraid of groups and spiritual

[A]

groups as a result of your.

[B]

As a result of being in a cult.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I don't trust any of them. I'm like Individuals, you, Father Jim, my dear friend, who I respect and miss. Yeah, that I could do, but I won't do groups. So I started listening to abs or, you know, YouTube yoga, because I needed to stretch. And I was kidding. And then it just. It went on from there. And, you know, to this day, I have to be reminded that to just breathe. Breathe and be in the moment because I constantly feel anxious. And we live in a world of such so much confusion and darkness. And that's how I discovered it is to just get quiet and get internal and try to trust that. That. That there is enough goodness in the world.

[A]

When you meditate, is it a question of sort of letting go and emptying yourself? Is that because different people meditate in different ways? I'm just curious what your. What's going on inside of you?

[B]

What's going on inside of me is to just try to listen. Is to just try to listen to the person guiding me. That's all I could get through. And try not to judge myself for forgetting anxious and a gazillion thoughts. You know, that's, for me, the goal. If I could do that, just listen to the other person.

[A]

That's beautiful. And what are the fruits of that meditation for you?

[B]

I find that I'm more patient, I'm less reactionary for a while, and I'm more empathetic to others.

[A]

I like when you say for a while because you're very. It's a very human way of saying it. Yeah, because we're all imperfect. I'm really curious. You participated. And I saw the episode of the show Finding youg Roots with Henry Louis Gates Jr. Which I loved, and you talked about your ancestors before, kind of feeling supported from them. What was that experience like, and what did you learn about your ancestors and how did it change you?

[B]

I'm grateful to at least gives. Give the ancestors names for the sacrifices that they made, for the things that they endured, and that not just for myself, but for those who come behind me, my nieces, nephews, the grandkids, they can see that as Puerto Ricans, we came, we gave, we served, we gave so much. We have so much to be proud of. And I'm grateful that somehow, through me, that information has come forward.

[A]

For those who haven't seen you, can you tell us sort of the story of your ancestors in brief, briefly?

[B]

All my ancestors, well, they launched from Puerto Rico to the United States. My grandmother came to this country in 1919 by boat. She was 17. And she came with her sisters and I think a niece. My Grandmother, maternal grandmother, arrived in the 50s with my mom, who was 11 years old. Let's see. My mother's father was serving as a merchant marine. My father's brother had died In World War II fighting over Japan, and he has a Purple Heart, posthumously. Given that whole story, I mean, there's so many parts of these stories that are heartbreaking. My grandfather wrote a post in the newspaper announcing a meeting, a march in Puerto Rico to fight for independence. He was working alongside the Pedro Albizu Campos, who was a Harvard lawyer and spoke many languages and served in World War I. Anyway, all of these great people, there are connections to great people. My great, great, great grandmother was an enslaved woman who was sold to Puerto Rico, to Spaniards in Puerto Rico after the French abolished slavery. So she was sent from the island of Guadalupe. That's how my grandfather learned to speak French. No one talked about that. No one talked about that.

[A]

No one talked about how your grandfather knew French growing up, you mean?

[B]

Yeah, he was taught by his father. Wow. Anyway, all that to say that there's still so much for me to process. I feel grateful and sometimes even unworthy for these blessings. Often unworthy. I'm like, but why me?

[A]

Do you ever think of them looking down on you?

[B]

I do. I do. I was long, long time ago. Nobody knew me. I was meeting a friend of mine at a bar who was in from out of town, and this young woman came up to me out of nowhere. Never met her, didn't know her. And she said, I, I don't want you to think I'm crazy, but I see things. I was like, okay. And she described my grandfather fully. She was like, I don't understand what he's saying. He's speaking another language. She was like, but I'm feeling like he is so proud of you. And that was my grandfather. He was my father figure. So that's what gives me. I believe that that is real. That's why I say, I believe the ancestors are there. So I don't know how to put these conflicting things that I believe and don't believe into one context.

[A]

Well, in the Catholic Church, we also talk about the communion of saints. And, you know, I believe people are praying for us and looking down or, you know, or wherever they are, looking around at us. I think that's really beautiful. Just. Do you feel like it changed you? Because I would imagine an encounter like that when I saw the show. It changes you somehow. I mean, I'm curious if it makes you more, I don't know, confident, more settled, more whatever. What would you say? How did it change you?

[B]

It reminded me that I need to advocate more for Puerto Rico and educate myself more and lend my voice to some of those causes. I'm woefully deficient in being an activist in that way because I feel like I'm always running on fumes. I don't know why. I just do. So it showed me to really, what did I learn? Try to make it. Make things more equitable. And I think that when faith is at its best, it reflects social justice.

[A]

Amen. Trying to give it back. You know, as you're talking about your Puerto Rican ancestry, which I knew about and know more about now, having watched the show, I'm curious how that affected your spirituality growing up, to go back a little bit, because there's a certain kind, I think, of Puerto Rican Catholic spirituality in a sense. You know, your mom you've talked about a lot. How did that influence you growing up and how does it influence you today? If you could talk about, like, kind of Puerto Rican Catholic upbringing, what would you say?

[B]

I taken the African roots of what my grandmother would also, who was seriously Catholic, but also, you know, she. Every now and then there was a santero coming over and doing a ritual. And I didn't really understand it, but I was intrigued, even as a little kid. And then my mom, you know, a few times she would take me to Santeras and I would witness some rituals in the African garb. And now I look at it as a pride that survived those traditions of the Africans, survived all of that trauma. And so there's a beauty in that and in what we, as Puerto Ricans have somehow not gotten completely colonized about and just accepting the enslaver's version of God and the Bible, but holding onto those as well.

[A]

So with all that, where are you, I would say, in your relationship with the Catholic Church, per se?

[B]

It's further complicated. My brother, when he was a child, was supposed to be taught by a priest because my brother was dyslexic and he was supposed to be, you know, tutored. And this priest sexually abused him. And he ended up a life of substance abuse for a long, long time and then eventually getting clean. But then when he got sick and with cancer, he died in 2021. During that time, he had been fighting for settlement for his abuse. And it just went on and on. And even with taking a deposition from a man who was a known sexual predator and moved around for those reasons, I want the Catholic Church to do right by this, by these survivors. Do the Right thing. Handle the settlements. You know, I think I know that's what Jesus would expect of Christians. That's it.

[A]

Well, thank you for sharing that and I apologize on behalf of the church for all that.

[B]

Thank you, Father Jim. I know, I know. That's why I trust you, you know, and I know that. Let's get more like you to shed light.

[A]

Thank you. Thanks for sharing that. We're gonna pause for a short break, but we will be right back. I just got up there and I was just like, oh, my God, thank you. Thank you. And then I heard someone, anyone, please help. So he's like Superman being able to carry me off the mount.

[B]

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[C]

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[A]

Let me ask you something. We, I'm curious, we talked about sort of persevering at the beginning and what kind of spirituality that takes. What is it like to deal with success? And what kind of a spirituality do you have to have to deal with that? And what do you find helpful?

[B]

I find it helpful, again, to take out a little bit of time to breathe because it's been ingrained in me that. Everything is limited, you know, so I have to remind myself to breathe, that there's abundance, that people really, truly respect my skills. I always add, you know, imposter syndrome comes tiptoeing all the time. So to breathe and to trust. Yeah. And I think I need to say just a, a little like, imposter syndrome is real. And so I get afraid that people are gonna see through me and see that I'm a fluke.

[A]

That's interesting. I would imagine. Well, maybe I'm wrong, but I would imagine that would be something that would be for, you know, an actor just beginning. But you've, you know, you've acted for so long. The imposter syndrome is I'm not as good of an actor as people Think or.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, they've been bamboozled.

[A]

Well, all of your fans would disagree, Liza. So we have. We're going to wrap up. We have an audience question, which is a fun part, and I'm going to answer it, and then you can answer it. So this is from Michael. And Michael asks, how do I justify taking a leap of faith in a new job that is spiritually fulfilling and beneficial to humanity while putting my family at risk due to pay cuts? So that's a big question.

[B]

Wow, that is.

[A]

So I am going to try to answer that. As someone who takes a vow of poverty and doesn't have a family, I think Liza's answer might be a little more practical. You know, I think it's a balance. I would say you obviously have to care for your family. You have to care for yourself. Everybody needs, you know, to eat and have a roof over their head and clothes on their back. So I think it's a tension. You may not be able to take the most fulfilling job that you have that you can get because you have these responsibilities. By the same token, you don't want to just get a job that's just all about the money. And of course, talking to your spouse or your partner or whoever you're living with that you consider your family is really important, too. So, Liza, this is a tough question. This is maybe one of our hardest audience questions, so I'm going to put it to you. But you're someone with a family, so how do I justify taking a leap of faith in a new job that is spiritually fulfilling and beneficial to humanity while putting my family at risk due to pay cuts? And actually, I would imagine a lot of actors ask you that question.

[B]

Hmm, that's a tough one. And only you and your partner can make it. I would say you have to pay attention to the numbers, the hard numbers, and you two have to work that out. Is there a way? I mean, how greatly will your family suffer? That's real. My husband was a cop when we were starting, and it was really hard. He would work midnight shifts so that he can audition and. And be an actor and sacrifice sleep. I would say, you know, if it's a great loss of income, then maybe you can do the things that are fulfilling on this side. But if there is a way to compromise, depending on how toxic and soul crushing your job is or the job you're contemplating is, then maybe if those compromises are reasonable enough, then try the new thing. It's listing the pros and cons very specifically. That's that's what I would tell you and your family to do.

[A]

Well, great advice. Eliza Colon Zayas, my good friend for many years, thank you for coming in the spiritual life. I want to thank you for a lot of things. Thank you for just being a good friend. Thank you for being so honest about your journey. This is really the first episode we've had where someone's kind of struggling with their faith and I'm really happy that you were able to be honest with our listeners and our viewers. So thanks very much and God bless you.

[B]

Father Jim, your dear friend.

[A]

My pleasure. I was so grateful that she was so honest and transparent as I knew she would be. But I really think it's important for listeners and viewers to come to know somebody like Liza because a lot of people are on, you know, the path that she's on, you know, struggling with faith and wondering where God is in all of this and, you know, talking honestly about her journey and where she is and where she finds her spirituality. So I was so, so grateful for her honesty and her openness and her transparency and her love and also personally for her friendship, too.

[C]

Yeah, I think that if we have all the answers figured out, we're probably not living an authentic spiritual life.

[A]

Yeah. And I was happy that she raised as many questions, you know, as she had answers for us. So I've written an article at America Media on Agnosticism and Struggling with youh Faith. And the link is in the show notes. Also, I'd like to let you know that I have a new book out, a memoir called Work in Progress. It's the story of finding work through a variety of crazy summer jobs like busboy, dishwasher, caddy, factory worker and many more. And eventually finding God. Basically, it's a light hearted spiritual memoir about growing up in the 60s, 70s and 80s and is available in print, ebook and audio anywhere. Books are sold. I really hope you enjoy Work in Progress. The Spiritual Life with Father James Martin is produced by Maggie Van Doren, Sebastian Gomes and myself, production assistants from Kevin Christoerobles and Will Gualtieri. Adam Buckmuller engineered the show. The theme score is courtesy of Teddy Abrams and Nate Farrington. You can follow me across social media. Amesmart Martin, sj Thank you so much and God bless you. Ready or not, summer is coming and Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance is on now. Right now through May 25th. Get up to 70% off everything home at Wayfair. Plus score amazing doorbuster deals. All sail long and surprise flash deals on Memorial day. We're talking thousands of products at every style and budget. Now is the time to save big on must haves for your patio, backyard, and beyond. These savings won't last, so don't wait. Shop Wayfair's Memorial Day clearance now through May 25th.

[C]

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