Podcast Summary
Podcast: The Spiritual Life with Fr. James Martin, S.J.
Episode: Praying with the Bible during Lent
Date: February 17, 2026
Host: Fr. James Martin, S.J. (with producer Maggie Van Dorn)
Guest: Ben Witherington III (New Testament scholar, Professor at Asbury Theological Seminary)

Overview

This episode delves into the intersection of prayer, Scripture, and the Lenten journey, featuring a conversation with renowned New Testament scholar Ben Witherington III. The discussion explores practical approaches to praying with the Bible, how to find freshness in familiar scripture passages, and profound personal experiences of faith and loss. It also touches on differences and common ground between Catholic and Protestant scriptural traditions during Lent, and offers spiritual wisdom for listeners seeking to deepen their faith and prayer life.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Introductions, Background, and the Role of Scripture

• [00:50-02:06]
  • Fr. James Martin introduces Ben Witherington, recounting how he became familiar with his scholarship, which makes complex topics accessible.
  • Maggie Van Dorn details Ben’s credentials and contributions to understanding the historical Jesus, Paul, and the early Church.
  • The distinction between the historical Jesus and the Christ of faith is outlined as a key theme in biblical studies.

“We have four portraits of Jesus and no one portrait of Jesus would be adequate to really depict the magnificent things that Jesus said and did and who he was.”
– Ben Witherington [07:52]

Lent’s Three Pillars: Prayer, Fasting, Almsgiving – Biblical Foundations

• [08:27-10:28]
  • Discussion on Lent’s spiritual practices:
    • Prayer: Clearly biblically based; modeled and taught by Jesus.
    • Fasting: Scriptural encouragement found in many Gospel passages.
    • Almsgiving: Linked to Paul’s collection for the Jerusalem church (1 Corinthians), as well as ongoing church tradition.
  • Witherington notes these practices were brought together in the Lenten season predominantly through monastic traditions.

Ben Witherington’s Personal Spiritual Journey

• [10:28-18:06]
  • Raised as a “cradle Methodist” with both traditional and spontaneous prayer.
  • College years prompted deep questioning due to political unrest and church stances on issues like the Vietnam War.
  • A mystical personal experience: hearing his name audibly called when alone at college which reignited and personalized his faith:

    “I literally heard somebody say Ben. And I looked around. There was nobody there...I started praying and saying, Lord, if this is you, I'm here. Take me and show me the way.”
    – Ben Witherington [14:25-15:14]

  • This led to a deeper embrace of prayer as personal communication, not just recitations.

Prayer Practice, Grief, and Scripture in Daily Life

• [18:06-24:39]
  • Witherington continues evening prayer traditions and participates in communal worship and Eucharist.
  • Prayer is also shaped by Bible meditation, letting scripture “start a conversation” with God.
  • Profound grief – the loss of his daughter Christie:
    • He processed via prayer and scriptural reflection, finding solace in Jairus’ daughter story (Mark 5), looking forward to reunion:

      “I look forward to the day when I hear Jesus say on the Day of Resurrection to my Christie, so I can hold her in my arms again. Now that's a prayer experience, you know, but it was prompted by the Scriptures.”
      – Ben Witherington [22:49]

How God Speaks Through Scripture, and Approaching the Bible Freshly

• [25:19-33:17]

  • Listeners should approach Scripture with an open heart and mind for “fresh light,” quoting John Wesley.

  • Music and poetry, including the hymn “Be Thou My Vision” and George Herbert’s poem "Prayer," also lead him into deeper relationship and prayer.

    "It's the soul in paraphrase. That's what prayer is."
    – Ben Witherington (quoting Herbert) [28:24-29:56]

  • Advice for those unfamiliar with Scripture:

    • Start simple – Psalms, parables, familiar stories.
    • Example from grandfather’s Bible: Psalm 23 as a touchstone.

    “Start with passages that resonate with where they are...if you want your word to be winsome and you want to win some by being winsome, then come to passages that are entree level.”
    – Ben Witherington [31:28]

Making Scripture Accessible and Overcoming Intimidation

• [33:53-34:56]
  • A study Bible with clear notes can demystify difficult passages.
  • Avoid overwhelming newcomers with technical commentaries.

The Historical Bedrock of Christianity—Scripture’s Realism

• [34:56-41:24]

  • Christianity is a “historically founded religion.” Witherington shares archaeological stories from travels in Turkey (e.g., discovering an inscription for Sergius Paulus in Pisidian Antioch).

    “There is an irreducible amount of historical bedrock on which the Christian faith is based. It's not just a spiritual philosophy, it's a historical religion.”
    – Ben Witherington [35:43]

  • The reality of biblical places grounds faith in history for both scholars and lay pilgrims.

Sola Scriptura – Its Meaning and Relevance for Catholics

• [41:24-43:47]
  • The phrase was used by medieval Catholic thinkers before the Protestant Reformation to reclaim Scripture’s primary authority over human hierarchy:

    “The people who came up with this phrase were all Catholics...What sola scriptura really means is that the primary source of authority for any Christian is the Bible.”
    – Ben Witherington [41:51]

  • Tradition, reason, and experience are important, but secondary to Scripture.
  • Acknowledgement that attitudes have shifted post-Vatican II; younger Catholics often engage more deeply with the Bible.

Audience Questions: Finding Freshness in Familiar Mass Readings

• [46:55-48:06]
  • Question: "How do I hear the readings at Mass with freshness, when I've heard them many times before?"
    • Fr. Jim: Approach Scripture with trust, openness, and expectation for new insight. Recounts being surprised by an overlooked phrase in the “Rich Young Man” story (Mk 10:21).
    • Witherington: Suggests using different translations, especially Eugene Peterson’s paraphrase “The Message,” to gain "aha" moments and new perspective:

      “So many times his paraphrase gets right to the heart of what's being said. And you have an aha moment.”
      – Ben Witherington [47:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Prayer and Scripture:
  “I open the Bible and believe wholeheartedly. This is God's word. So he's got something to say to me if he wants to start a conversation with me, point me to the right passage, you know, and I will read it and I will reflect on it.”
  – Ben Witherington [18:33]

• On Loss and Hope:
  “My instant reply was, my daughter is not lost. I know right where to find her. She's with Jesus, period, you know.”
  – Ben Witherington [21:42]

• On Lent’s Traditions:
  "Are they biblically based? Well, yes...Connecting them specifically to Lent is not. That's something, so far as I can see, that first happens in the monasteries..."
  – Ben Witherington [08:43]

• On Reading Scripture with New Eyes:
  “You need to come with an open heart and an open mind and ask, what fresh light...will you bring forth for me today from your word?”
  – Ben Witherington [25:34]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro to Ben Witherington and Scripture Scholarship: [00:50–05:29]
• Lent’s Pillars & Biblical Practice: [05:48–10:28]
• Personal Testimony and Mystical Experience: [10:28–18:06]
• Grief, Prayer, and Scriptural Comfort: [21:19–24:39]
• Practical Approaches to Prayer with the Bible: [28:09–33:17]
• Making the Bible Approachable: [33:53–34:56]
• Archaeology and the Historical Reality of Scripture: [34:56–41:24]
• Sola Scriptura—Catholic and Protestant Perspectives: [41:24–43:47]
• Hearing Familiar Readings with Freshness: [46:55–48:06]

Overall Tone and Takeaways

Warm, honest, and deeply informed, the conversation balances scholarly rigor with moving personal stories. Both Fr. Martin and Witherington encourage listeners:

• To approach prayer and scripture with childlike openness and curiosity,
• To use both heart and intellect,
• And to let the living word of God continually shape and deepen one’s experience and trust during Lent—and always.

Useful Resources

• Eugene Peterson’s The Message – For fresh perspectives on Scripture.
• “When a Daughter Dies” by Ben Witherington – On processing grief through prayer.
• Sheldon Vanauken's A Severe Mercy and C.S. Lewis's A Grief Observed – Spiritual reflections on loss.

For further reading, visit: www.americamagazine.org/thespirituallife