What Will America’s 250th Birthday Cake Look Like?

Summary

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The Sporkful – “What Will America’s 250th Birthday Cake Look Like?”

Host: Dan Pashman
Guest: Grace Pack (Cake Artist)
Date: June 15, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode celebrates a unique intersection of food, history, and creativity as America approaches its 250th birthday—dubbed America 250. Dan Pashman sits down with renowned cake artist Grace Pack, who conceived and is leading the construction of the nation’s official birthday cake for the occasion. The conversation covers her unusual path to cake artistry, the cake’s ambitious vision involving public participation, exploration of historic American recipes, and the dynamics of collaborative food spectacles. The latter half shifts to the “Great Nosh” food festival in New York, spotlighting inventive restaurant collaborations, including a pastrami taco and an Indian-inspired stuffed bagel.

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Grace Pack: How She Became America’s Cake Artist

[02:32]

• Self-Appointment:
  Grace identified a glaring omission—no cake planned for America’s milestone event. She reached out directly to the America 250 Commission and Congressional Caucus leaders to volunteer her services.

  “There is a grave omission. Our country's biggest birthday party is missing a birthday cake. I would love to make this birthday cake.” – Grace Pack [03:14]

• Background & Training:

  • Fine arts degree from NYU; early installations involving humorous, ephemeral food-based art.

    “I just sat on the floor, made sandcastles, but out of ice cream.” – Grace Pack [04:06]

  • Shifted to neuroscience for grad school but redirected to cake making after personal tragedies inspired her to seek hands-on, joyous work.

• Starting From Scratch:
  Despite minimal kitchen experience (never baked from scratch before culinary school), her confidence and willingness to look foolish fueled rapid progress.

  “I have a weird sense of confidence. Or I'm like, I don't know how to do this, but I'll figure it out.” – Grace Pack [09:10]

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Cake as Art: Philosophy and Practice

[05:09 – 11:11]

• Food, Humor, Impermanence, and Participation:

  • Pack views cakes as performative, participatory art—meant to be ephemeral and shared.
  • She delights in their destruction, insisting cakes fulfill their destiny when eaten.

    “The cake is meant to be eaten. That is the purpose of the cake.” – Grace Pack [11:11]

• Cake Sculpting on TV:

  • Gained expertise and visibility through food TV competitions (ex: “Is It Cake?”, “Candyland”).
  • Learned about structural engineering for enormous cakes—using steel, wood, and power tools.

• Flavor Philosophy:

  • Leans on classic and global inspirations; favorite: chocolate cake with passion fruit and pistachio Swiss meringue buttercreams.
  • Innovates flavor pairings, but always ensures both appearance and taste matter.

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America 250 Cake: Vision, Design, and Community

The Conviction for Participation

• A Collective Gift:
  Grace’s vision: “A gift to the nation, for the people, by the people” [15:27], making the cake a collaboration between herself, members of Congress, and children from across the country.

  • Congress members from all 50 states and territories contribute by hand-finishing a decorative element on the cake—embracing imperfection as beauty.

    “There's perfection in imperfection. And if this member of Congress is botching this flower, that's what's going on the cake. And I think that's really beautiful.” – Grace Pack [16:52]

  • Children’s contest artwork “America’s Field Trip” will feature in the cake design.

Design and Scale

• Process:

  • Initial sketches by hand, then refined on an iPad; tweaking occurs as 2D ideas are translated to 3D.
  • Theme: “American Made”—a nod to the evolving, participatory nature of America itself—“an active verb.”

    “Making is also a progress. We're not done making. We're still making. And it's an ongoing…active verb.” – Grace Pack [18:41]

• Size:

  • To match the size constraints of the venue:

    “11 to 12 ft long, 4 to 5 ft wide, and 7 to 8 ft high.” [20:07]

  • Ingredients all donated; workaround for expired modeling chocolate/fondant to reduce waste.

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Historical Cake: Recipe Development & Tasting

[21:23 – 27:15]

• Inspired by 1792’s “American Cookery”:

  • Consulted Smithsonian’s food curator, used historic recipes to devise “America 250 Modern Heritage Cake.”
  • Features:
    • Whole wheat flour from George Washington’s gristmill
    • Apples, black currants macerated in Kentucky bourbon, orange blossom water, ginger, nutmeg, cardamom
    • Honey thyme soak for herbal note
    • Swiss meringue buttercream with vanilla bean

  “It felt like a homemade cake...the whole wheat, it's grittier… brings other flavors out.” – Grace Pack [23:57]

• Dan’s Taste Test:
  Dan highlights the cake’s density, fruit, and distinct herby undertone as Grace reveals the full ingredient list afterward.

  “It's like every bite is different.” – Dan Pashman [27:02]

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On the Hill: Cake Decorating with Congress

[29:19 – 35:33]

• In D.C., Grace corrals Congresspeople:
  Wheels a pop-up decorating station through Congressional offices—complete with pizza cutter (no sharp objects allowed).

  “Laws, laws, laws… Cake, cake.” – Dan Pashman [30:09]

• Shows design concept—a sculptural cake with “history” sections, children’s art, and a bronze ribbon with state-representative items.

• Congressman Tom Suozzi:
  Proudly sculpts a yellow taxi in front of the Empire State Building (for NY), jokes about collaborative spirit and baking as a model for Congressional cooperation.

  “If only Congress was like this and everybody would work together.” – Rep. Tom Suozzi [33:18]

• Suozzi reflects on the contrast between the bicentennial (1976) and today’s more fractured America—hoping the 250th can help rebuild unity.

• Cake Public Debut:

  • Ceremony at the Library of Congress, July 4. Only three people will get to eat: a first grader, a Tiger Scout, and a senior (possibly a veteran).
  • Cake on display at the White House Visitor Center, July 6–end of July.

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Segment Two: The Great Nosh – Food Collabs & Innovation

[36:46 – 45:03]

Pastrami Taco: Katz’s Deli x Santo Taco

• Collaboration:
  • Santo Taco’s Santi Perez + Katz’s Deli’s Jake Dell
  • A fusion taco featuring Katz’s pastrami on a fresh corn tortilla with avocado salsa, a Russian-dressing-inspired red salsa with habanero, and escabeche pickles.

    “There is a common denominator across all tacos… tortilla, a protein, and a great salsa.” – Santi Perez [39:23]

  • Dan raves:

    “That was honestly one of the best tacos I’ve ever had in my life.” [41:26]

Stuffed Bagel: Moonrise Bagels x Unapologetic Foods

• Collaboration:

  • Moonrise Bagels (Jeremy Rhodes) & Unapologetic Foods (Chintan Pandya)
  • A New York-style bagel stuffed with hand-pulled chicken tikka and their masala sauce, finished with in-house spice blend, and served with butter masala sauce for dipping.
  • Debated levels of sauciness and texture to land on a final version.

    “I think for us, we really like to expand people's minds in a way, have them think about a bagel a little differently.” – Jeremy Rhodes [43:37]

  • Chintan and Jeremy combine cultures and offer something totally new for the food festival.

• Event Details:
  The Great Nosh takes place on Governor’s Island, with inventive pairings and a celebratory, inclusive food atmosphere.

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Art and Cake:

  “My art is part of all of you now.” – Grace Pack [06:10]

• On Learning by Doing:

  “Some tools, they would say, and I wouldn’t know what it is. I would just look at my classmates, like, what is she grabbing? I’m gonna grab what she’s grabbing.” – Grace Pack [08:01]

• On Collaborating with Congress:

  “Perfection in imperfection. And if this member of Congress is botching this flower, that’s what’s going on the cake.” – Grace Pack [16:52]

• On American Identity:

  “Making is also a progress. We’re not done making. We’re still making.” – Grace Pack [18:41]

• Congressional Sentiment:

  “If only Congress was like this and everybody would work together.” – Cong. Tom Suozzi [33:18]

• On the Cake Recipe:

  “Whisk an egg for an hour by hand...whisking with bundles of twigs for an hour.” – Grace Pack [22:31]

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Key Timestamps for Segments

• 02:32 – Grace’s path to making the America 250 cake
• 05:09 – Early food art and philosophy of impermanence
• 09:10 – Learning in culinary school from scratch
• 15:17 – Vision for national collaboration on the cake
• 18:41 – Cake theme: “American Made”
• 20:07 – Cake size and logistics
• 21:23 – Historical inspirations for cake recipe
• 26:11 – Dan’s blind tasting of the heritage cake
• 29:19 – D.C. segment: Congress decorates the cake
• 33:11 – Congressman Suozzi makes the NY contribution
• 34:18 – Suozzi’s bicentennial reflections
• 36:46 – The Great Nosh: pastrami taco collab
• 41:38 – Indian stuffed bagel collab

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Language & Tone

• The tone is lively, inclusive, and curious. There’s reverence and humor toward both food and history, with a focus on creativity and collaboration. Grace’s earnestness and playful humility balance Dan’s enthusiastic, slightly self-deprecating food geekdom.

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Engaging Highlights

• Grace’s infectious optimism about learning and creative risk (“I have a weird sense of confidence. Or I’m like, I don’t know how to do this, but I’ll figure it out.” [09:10])
• The chaos and beauty of letting Congress literally put their mark on a national cake—embracing imperfection for patriotic unity.
• The inside look at making massive cakes—structural engineering, edible and inedible materials, flavor balancing.
• The subtle blend of culinary innovation and connection to America’s food past.
• Inventiveness and cross-cultural dialogue in the Great Nosh collaborations, celebrating new kinds of Americana.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is a treat for lovers of food, art, history, and community. You'll learn how a cake artist with an unusual background took on America’s biggest culinary centerpiece, why celebrating with cake can mean so much, and how food festivals foster creative collisions of culture and flavor. It’s a delicious primer for July 4th—and a toast to what food can be: a shared, creative, and very American act.

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Transcript

[Dan Pashman]

In Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. The food makes the moment. I was there last year and let me tell you the number of beautiful moments I had walking along the boardwalk, sitting on the beach and then the food and drink on the water, the sun setting, the ocean lapping in the distance. Maybe it's a great sandwich or a takeout box of soul food that you share with friends at the beach. That's what makes your Myrtle moment, when you realize you're exactly where you belong. When you dine in Myrtle beach, you shine. Plan your food tour and make a Myrtle moment of your own at visit myrtlebeach.com it's summertime. You're probably traveling somewhere. It's going to be great. I hope you're going to eat well, but let's face it, sometimes when you're traveling, your routine is off. You're eating different foods and that can mess with your system. Well, Miralax provides gentle constipation relief and comes in bottles or mix in packets that fit easily in your luggage. Miralax works naturally with the water in your body to hydrate and soften for a comfortable go without side effects like cramp, bloating, gas or sudden urgency. Shop now at any retailer near you. Users directed for occasional constipation. Siriusxm podcasts. So Grace, we're sitting here chatting about the mystery cake that you brought that's in this sealed box in front of us. This is like the Chekhov's gun of this taping. At some point it's gonna get open and I'm gonna eat some cake. But right now I have no what's inside there?

[Grace Pack]

Right?

[Dan Pashman]

This is the Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan Pashman. Each week on our show, we obsess about food to learn more about people. Today, we're bringing you two different stories about big summer food spectacles happening in the next few weeks. Later on, we'll get the inside scoop on some very exciting restaurant collabs happening as part of an upcoming food festival in New York called the Great Nosh that includes a Jewish taco and an Indian bagel. But first, you might have heard that this July 4th is America's 250th birthday. Now, the formal name for it is the Semiquin Centennial, but literally no one's gonna use that word. Let's just stick with America 250. And of course, every birthday needs a cake, right? So today we're gonna get the full story behind the official cake. The design and planning the hundreds of pounds of materials needed to make it. And the person behind it, her name is Grace Pack. So how did you end up being the person making the official America 250 cake?

[Grace Pack]

That actually was my own doing.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Okay.

[Grace Pack]

I was looking at the America 250 Commission. It's a commission that they established over 10 years ago. And I was looking at all their programming and they have these fascinating programs all around the country. And July 4th and I realized that there was no cake. So I had emailed the commission and also Congressional Caucus leaders and said, what you're doing is amazing. It's historic. It's so impressive. But there is a grave omission. Our country's biggest birthday party is missing a birthday cake. And I said, I would love to make this birthday cake.

[Dan Pashman]

Now, to be clear, America 250 works with the nonpartisan Congressional Commission. It was created 10 years ago to plan this whole big celebration. America 250 is totally separate from Freedom 250, which was created by President Trump and which has been the source of much controversy. Now, it's not like anyone could have emailed America250 and secured this very special baking gig. Your Meemaw's Dr. Duncan Hines Cake ain't gonna cut it. Grace is a cake artist. She has her own bespoke cake bakery in New York City called Duchess of Cameron. She's known for making incredibly elaborate cakes. She's been on the Netflix show Is It Cake? And perhaps most impressively, she's made cakes for the Marine Corps last two birthday parties, which are huge event where the cake is especially important. So Grace has been building towards the America 250 cake for a while, but not forever. She started out as an artist when she was an art student at nyu. She did installations and performance pieces.

[Grace Pack]

I had something called Snowball in Summer and it was a performance where I just sat on the floor, made sandcastles, but out of ice cream. And it was throughout a few hours where my hands were freezing and it would just melt.

[Dan Pashman]

And what was the temperature in the room? How quickly did it room temp?

[Grace Pack]

It took forever. Cause I had buckets of ice cream sitting with me on the floor. And yeah, it took forever. But I also did other installation pieces like a tree that grew French fries. I laid out a picnic blanket in the middle of Astor Place and there were tiny hamburger clay sculptures. There were I think 200 something clay sculptures of hamburgers. And only five of them were actual real hamburgers. And I would walk by, pretend like I didn't Know what was going on. Look at the hamburgers. Picked up the one real hamburger, ate it and then just kept walking. And then people would look at me like what is going on? And they look at the hamburgers and it's all clay. They wanted to present something that kind of introduced humor but also confusion.

[Dan Pashman]

But so it's interesting, Grace, because there's a few through lines that I see in your early work in art taking you up to today. One is food.

[Grace Pack]

Yep.

[Dan Pashman]

One is a bit of a sense of humor. What was the other thing you said? You said that it was confusion. Confusion, right.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

Which is like, is it cake or is it not cake?

[Grace Pack]

Right.

[Dan Pashman]

And then also just this idea, especially like with the ice cream sandcastles of sort of like impermanence.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

What was it about all those themes that, that excited you?

[Grace Pack]

The fact that something can't live forever. I feel like people pay attention to it more and really appreciate the time that they have with this object. Right now you're really in the moment, you have to soak it all in. And something about food that I love and especially with my cakes is, you know, you see a painting on the wall, you take it in visually, mentally, emotionally, but it's not becoming a physical part of your body. And this cake, it becomes a physical part of your body. So I'm like, my art is part

[Julie Booth]

of all of you now.

[Grace Pack]

I'm part of all of you. Which is really, really cool.

[Dan Pashman]

After getting her fine arts degree, Grace took the logical next step, going for a graduate degree in neuroscience. Well, she was really interested in how art and science fit together, how artists brains work. By the time she was 30, she was done with her master's and working in a lab. That's when tragedy struck.

[Grace Pack]

I lost a few people in my life in a very short amount of time. In a single week, I lost three people completely unrelated events. And it was just one of those moments where it didn't make sense. The world didn't make sense, this didn't make sense. And then I said, I don't make sense. Nothing makes sense right now. So I had to take a pause and really think about life. And I started listing what do I love spending my time doing? I love hands on work. I love making things with my hands. I'm very DIY at home. I love learning new skills and just experimenting. And lastly, I love heightening people's experiences and I want to make people's experiences more memorable. And out of that exercise immediately I said, oh, I have to make cakes.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace quit her job at the lab and signed up for culinary school. When she showed up for the first day, she realized she might be a little different from the other students.

[Grace Pack]

I think I was probably the only one who had never baked a cake before. So everyone came in with cakes.

[Dan Pashman]

You literally had never baked a cake.

[Grace Pack]

I think the probably two or three times I baked a boxed cake.

[Dan Pashman]

Okay.

[Grace Pack]

But no, I had never baked anything from scratch. It was just boxed cakes. Three times.

[Dan Pashman]

Maybe growing up, were you even like a home cook?

[Julie Booth]

No, no.

[Grace Pack]

Never cooked. I never. I. But I was a.

[Dan Pashman]

How did you stay alive?

[Grace Pack]

My mom.

[Dan Pashman]

So what are they? Like, how was there? Gosh, so many questions. So many more questions now. Like, has anyone ever gone to culinary school with less cooking experience?

[Grace Pack]

Like, honestly? Probably not. Probably not. I knew nothing. Some tools, they would say, and I wouldn't know what it is. And I would have to just look at my classmates, like, what is she grabbing? I'm gonna grab what she's grabb.

[Dan Pashman]

It's a baking pan.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah. This is a spatula. But, you know, it was fun because I think as an adult, we don't really experiment and we're kind of afraid of new things. And you don't want to put yourself in a vulnerable position.

[Julie Booth]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

Afraid of looking foolish.

[Grace Pack]

Right. But for some reason, that, to me was like a playground. I was a little kid just experimenting, experiencing new things. What can I learn? I love learning. So, yeah, it was fun for me. It was a mixture of science and art put together. And I said, oh, my God, my past is coming together. I don't know how it's gonna, you know, unfold. But I just love the very exact preciseness. But also how I can experiment with ingredients and different chemistry. And also I can make art out of this cake. I can paint on it, I can sculpt it. So it was meant to be.

[Dan Pashman]

But was there any moment where you were like, I might be in over my head?

[Julie Booth]

No.

[Grace Pack]

I have a weird sense of conf. Or I'm like, I don't know how to do this, but I'll figure it out. And if I make a fool out of myself, well, it's a learning experience you make. You learn from your mistakes.

[Dan Pashman]

This trial by fire learning method seemed to work well for Grace. So well that one of the judges of Grace's final project invited her to be part of a cake themed TV show that this judge was working on. That's where Grace started to learn to sculpt cakes. Think of the super elaborate stunt cakes you see on food shows. Eventually, she opened her Own cake business, Duchess of Cameron. She mostly did weddings, but then she went on another TV show called Candyland where she upped her game even more.

[Grace Pack]

All these TV shows, they want something crazy. They say, we want Giant, we want big, we want crazy. I had never made a five foot tall creature made out of cake before. So, yeah, I learned all these structural elements that people don't really know about when they see these big cakes. People don't really realize that there are steel structures inside. There is wood. We're always working with power tools.

[Dan Pashman]

So this is one of my questions. So in a competition cake show in general, are you allowed to use inedible components?

[Julie Booth]

Yes.

[Grace Pack]

You have to use it for structural components or else it just. The cake just won't stand.

[Dan Pashman]

Right. What about the taste of the cakes? You know, we're talking a lot about the appearance.

[Grace Pack]

Right.

[Dan Pashman]

But like, tell me about the journey of deciding how these different cakes are gonna taste.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah, I have my go to classic flavors. You know, my favorite one is chocolate cake with passion fruit, Swiss meringue buttercream and pistachio Swiss meringue buttercream. But yeah, I like to experiment with different flavors, different pair. I do like to bring in different ingredients from all over the world.

[Dan Pashman]

What's the longest amount of time you ever worked on one cake?

[Grace Pack]

Oh, wow. Probably like a month.

[Dan Pashman]

So how does it feel to watch something that you spent weeks or a month working on, it's finally finished with this beautiful masterpiece and then it gets destroyed?

[Santi Perez]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

How does that feel?

[Grace Pack]

I love it. Which may sound crazy. And everyone says, I can't cut into it. And I actually get mad if they don't cut into it. I'll say, cut it, cut it. Because also, the cake has to see it cycle through. You know, the cake is meant to be eaten. That is the purpose of the cake. At the end of the day, you have to enjoy it. I also love seeing a slice of the cake on a plate. Just that sliver of the designed element, to me is just so fun. And, yeah, I love seeing people eating it also. It's like, I can't eat this and they'll eat it. It's like, oh, my God, it's so.

[Dan Pashman]

Coming up, Grace shares a sneak peek at America's birthday cake. And I get to taste it. Then I go to our nation's capital to see the decorating process stick around. And now a delicious word from our sponsors. Refresh your next pasta night by shaking up your red sauce routine with Bertolle Alfredo. America's number one selling Alfredo Sauce Bertolle Alfredo is made with fresh cream, real butter and aged Parmesan cheese. With just one taste, you'll understand why it's a staple in so many kitchens. Rethink pasta night. Take the Alfredo Bertolle. Buy now at a grocer near you. Circana Total US multi outlet white sauce dollars per units per pound sales calendar year 2025 Guys, let's face it. As we get older, we can't just skip sleep and eat whatever we want and still feel great the next day. But if you're entering your Men's Health era, you know it can feel complicated. Sprouts Farmers Market makes it easier and more delicious. Not only does sprouts have prepared food like beef sirloin, chimichurri and garlic sesame salmon protein bowls. It's also the home of organic fresh produce, grass fed beef and no antibiotics ever chicken that your body and taste buds crave. Whether it's men's health or any other health journey, it's easier at Sprouts Farmer's Market. If the sun's out, it's time to cook out. And let me tell you something. I grew up with Land o' Lakes cheese. If we had burgers at the Passman House, it was gonna be Land o Lakes on top and the butter in the fridge. Land O' Lakes. You know it. This is the perfect time of year to enjoy cooking outside with friends and family. And grilling in the great outdoors requires great flavorful ingredients like Land o Lakes butter and cheese. From smash burgers to grilled Mexican street corn, Landolakes.com recipes has plenty of inspiration for your next cook. Find Land o Lakes in the Derry and Delhi Isles. Welcome back to the Sporkful. I'm Dan Pashman, and Father's Day is just around the corner. Need a gift suggestion? I'm glad you asked because I have one for you. It's my cookbook anything's 81 inventive pasta recipes for Saucy People. It made the list of best Cookbooks of the Year in Food and Wine, Epicurious, Esquire, and Wired. And it has no traditional pasta sauce recipes. You don't need another recipe for meat sauce. Instead, it has things like shakshuka and shells, smoked cheddar and chicken manicotti done like enchiladas linguine with miso clam sauce, shrimp and andouille Mac and cheese, and of course, spaghetti alla cecina, which is a spicy pasta that's pan fried until charred and crispy crunchy. Get Anything's pastable today, wherever books are sold. And make sure you stay tuned to the end of this show for a special segment featuring a great story about food, family, and soccer, sponsored by Miralax. All right, back now to Grace Pack and America's birthday cake. A few months ago, Grace got the green light to make the America 250 cake she planned to set up in D.C. for the whole month of June. She'd start by making the outside decorative elements from sugar and modeling chocolate, because those things won't go bad. She'd bake the actual edible parts of the cake in early July in preparation for the cake cutting ceremony on July 4th at the library of Congress. After that, she'll transport the remainder of the cake to the White House Visitor center, where it'll be sealed with a special spray to prevent spoilage and display for another month. But before any of that could happen, Grace had to figure out what this cake would actually be. Did you already have ideas in mind?

[Grace Pack]

I. For the design?

[Dan Pashman]

Right.

[Grace Pack]

Absolutely not.

[Dan Pashman]

This seems. I would have guessed. I would have guessed.

[Chintan Pandya]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

That you did not. Right.

[Grace Pack]

But I did have some elements. Ideas that I had. Not necessarily what the cake looked like, but I wanted this to be a gift to the nation, for the people, by the people. So I wanted as many hands as possible to make the cake with me. And that's where I came across the idea of inviting members of Congress from all 50 states and US territories to come make the cake with us. Bipartisan, bicameral. This is for our country, our people. And then also incorporate children's artwork. So America 250 had this artwork contest called America's Field Trip, asking children, what does America mean to you? So we're actually using the winning artwork as a base for the cake design as well.

[Julie Booth]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

When you say the members of Congress are gonna help you make the cake, what exactly does that mean?

[Grace Pack]

Members of Congress are literally going to hand finish an element of the cake that we're putting on the cake. Now, this could be as simple as putting a dot on the cake with an edible marker. Or they can do extensive sculpting however they feel comfortable. But we want some element that they are making and contributing to the cake.

[Dan Pashman]

But, like, what if they screw it up?

[Grace Pack]

They won't.

[Dan Pashman]

How do you. I mean, your blind confidence. Phenomenal, Grace.

[Aiden]

I love it.

[Dan Pashman]

But you don't think that some congressperson who's never cooked a thing is gonna come in there and try to draw a flower and totally botching it.

[Grace Pack]

But even that is beautiful, because I love. There's Perfection in imperfection. And if this member of Congress is botching this flower, that's what's going on the cake. And I think that's really beautiful.

[Dan Pashman]

I mean, that's a very nice idea, but this thing's gonna be on display at the White House Visitor Center. Looks like a disaster.

[Grace Pack]

That's why we're all there to help them, walk them through different techniques. We'll teach them how to do things.

[Dan Pashman]

And, yeah, I mean, I have confidence in you. I'm sure it will be phenomenal. I just can't. I would never be able to let go of that much control.

[Grace Pack]

That's the whole fun of this cake. You don't know where it'll take you.

[Dan Pashman]

All right, so this isn't just a cake that Grace is gonna make and display. It's really more like an interactive art installation with participation from a bunch of folks and a dash of chaos. As Grace and I are talking. It's mid May. She's heading to D.C. in a couple weeks to start the cake construction and decorating process. She'll have help from five chefs from the Marine Corps who'll be working with her in a volunteer capacity outside their Marine duty. She's only just gotten the children's artwork that'll be featured on the cake. So now it's time to start designing.

[Grace Pack]

I sketch it in my sketchbook, and then the final will be done on the iPad with real color and sketches and different angles.

[Dan Pashman]

And then, like, how many cakes do you actually make? Trial cakes, or once, if it's on the iPad. You know, it's good to go.

[Grace Pack]

It's good to go. But a lot of times we have to change because a 2D sketch can never fully translate to a 3D element. So as we go, there's a lot of tweaking and adding and subtracting. Once we start working on the actual cake, you can't start from scratch again just because you've spent so much time and you don't have time to. So you have to pivot. It's always a troubleshooting situation.

[Dan Pashman]

So Grace is still a ways from a finished design, but she does have a theme for the cake.

[Grace Pack]

It's going to be American Made. In the beginning, I wanted to make a cake that was representative of all Americans. And then very quickly, I realized that is almost impossible. So I wanted to think of something that every American could relate to, what is something that everyone can see themselves in. And I landed on American Made. Because throughout history, throughout present future, all these children looking at the children's artwork. We have all made something, and that could be something like a cake, the Cascatelli pasta. It could be laws, you know. But we also, America in the history have made some painful things too. But we have overcome that and made fixes. It's a lot about making and how making is also a progress. We're not done making. We're still making. And it's an ongoing. It's an active verb. So I am asking members of Congress from every state a so that they can help us with design as well. What are the people of your state making right now that you or the state are proud of? And that could be innovation. It could be something very minimal, local. It could be something in a bigger scale. So we're going to be putting all that element into the cake too.

[Dan Pashman]

And how big will the final cake be? Do we know that yet?

[Grace Pack]

Yes. So they keep saying the size of a car. I'm like, which car?

[Angie.com Electrician]

Right.

[Dan Pashman]

Are we talking like a Escalade or a mini.

[Aiden]

Exactly.

[Grace Pack]

It'll Most likely be 11 to 12ft long to 4 to 5ft wide, and 7 to 8ft high.

[Dan Pashman]

That's high.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

That just broke my brain.

[Grace Pack]

So our limitation was the doorway at the White House Visitor Center. So whatever we could fit through the doorway was our maximum size.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace is still figuring out what the shape of the thing will be. In keeping with the idea that this cake is a gift to the nation, all the ingredients will be donated. No taxpayer money will be used for. And for such a big cake, they need a lot of ingredients.

[Grace Pack]

So just for the fondant and modeling chocolate, I think I had it estimated to 800 or 900 pounds.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, my God.

[Grace Pack]

But I made sure to ask them, if you have any near expiring products or expired products that you can no longer sell, please donate those to us. Cause no one's going to be eating that portion of the cake.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, I see.

[Grace Pack]

Okay. Yeah. So to reduce waste, if it's all going to dumpster anyway, we can salvage it.

[Dan Pashman]

Now, so far, we've mostly been talking about what the cake will look like. The size, the shape, the decorations. But I also wanted to know what this cake is actually gonna taste like. Turns out the ingredients are a whole other part of the story. For that, Grace decided to take some cues from our nation's history.

[Grace Pack]

I met with Paula Johnson. She's a food curator at the Smithsonian. We looked at recipe books from 1792 by Amelia Simmons. It's called the American Cookery, and it's the first American cookbook written by an And I really wanted to study the recipes from back in the day to create the American 250 cake recipe. And it was fascinating the way recipes were written. Very short, they didn't have ingredients listed on like 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

[Dan Pashman]

Right. It's just like combine eggs and butter.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah. And how are they mixing all of these ingredients when they didn't have mixers? So based on these recipes, I created this America 250 Modern Heritage Cake recipe.

[Dan Pashman]

So what exactly is the inspiration from that? 1790, whatever.

[Grace Pack]

1792. Yeah. So I was able to see what kind of ingredients they used. So flour, eggs, they used a lot of fruit soaked in alcohol. It was very boozy cakes, it was very dense because they didn't have mixers, they didn't have chemical leaveners. So everything had to be done by hand, hand whisked. And it says whisk an egg for an hour by hand.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

What?

[Grace Pack]

Yeah. And there was were made out of twigs. So they were just bundles of twigs. So imagine whisking with bundles of twigs for an hour. And it's not just a tiny bowl, it's six pounds of eggs that you're whisking for an hour. I'm just like, these people must have had crazy arms.

[Dan Pashman]

So Grace, in order to keep your America 250 cake connected to that history, are you gonna whisk all the eggs with it for an hour with a twig whisk?

[Grace Pack]

We kind of do wanna try and see how close we can get. Whisk for an hour.

[Dan Pashman]

But using a real whisk?

[Grace Pack]

No, we're going to find some twigs.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, you are gonna do that? I was joking.

[Grace Pack]

No, we actually wanna try. Cause we wanna see how well we can do it.

[Dan Pashman]

You're also sourcing 18th century flour from George Washington's grist mill.

[Grace Pack]

Yes. It was so cool. So George Washington, I never knew, besides being the first president and the general during the war, was a crazy entrepreneur and he was an innovator. So he has his own gristmill in Mount Vernon. That is still. So they make small batch flour the same way they used to make it in 18th century. And how George Washington used to make his flour, it's stone ground, it's a water mill. So everything's powered by water. And they were so generous enough to donate their flour to make our America's 250th modern heritage cake.

[Dan Pashman]

But this flour isn't what most of us are used to seeing in cakes today.

[Grace Pack]

This is whole wheat flour. It is not fine grained flour. So which is Very different from the cake flour that I use normally. I actually loved the whole wheat texture because it felt really real. It felt like a homemade cake. And in terms of history, too. So back in the day, they had really super fine grain flour, but that was really for, you know, the governor. So someone in high class had the fine grain. Everyone else had mixed grains because it was really. It was expensive also. And they would add things. They even added potato and beans just to make more substance. And, like, cornmeal and corn flour. And this heritage cake, the whole wheat, it's grittier. It's not as fine as cake flour. But I experimented with different ingredients that they used back in the day. And how does it all fit together? So just in terms of the texture and flavor, it really helped bring other flavors out. And you'll taste that soon. I actually brought you the cake. I want you to taste it, and I want you to tell me what you taste before I tell you anything about it.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, wow. This is a fun game. I'm gonna be honest with you. I'm not great at that in general. People expect me. Cause I host a food podcast and be like, oh, it has turmeric and whatever.

[Grace Pack]

You can tell me how you feel when you eat it.

[Dan Pashman]

All right, so should we open the box?

[Grace Pack]

Yes, let's do it.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace and I opened the box. She's brought a whole round layer cake. Frosted, but not decorated. Beyond that, there's just a thin layer of white buttercream. A crumble. For those of you who watch Bake

[Grace Pack]

off, you're the first person to taste this outside of our household.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Wow.

[Dan Pashman]

I'm very honored.

[Julie Booth]

Yes.

[Grace Pack]

Special.

[Dan Pashman]

I feel very special.

[Aiden]

Look at this.

[Dan Pashman]

You want me to try to guess what the flavoring is?

[Julie Booth]

Yeah.

[Grace Pack]

Or just, like, what you feel when you eat it?

[Dan Pashman]

Okay, I'll try, but I'm not great at guessing flavors, but okay. I start cutting through the cake to get my slice. Oh, I already love how dense it feels. I like a dense cake. I don't need a fluffy situation. Oh, I see a. Is that a fruit? Is that a raisin that just popped out? Oh, apples as Americans.

[Jake Dill]

Apple pie.

[Dan Pashman]

Makes sense. Raisins. I take my first bite and try to guess the different components. It's a whole wheat style flour, orange.

[Jake Dill]

Mm.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Okay.

[Dan Pashman]

I mean, it's really good. And then the frost. I mean, is this buttercream? I love butter.

[Grace Pack]

Swiss meringue, buttercream.

[Dan Pashman]

Is that vanilla, or is there something else going on?

[Grace Pack]

Vanilla bean.

[Dan Pashman]

Did I miss anything?

[Grace Pack]

Yep.

[Dan Pashman]

Turns out the cake has ginger nutmeg and cardamom. It's flavored with orange blossom water because historically that was more available than vanilla. The apples are sauteed and what I thought were raisins are actually black currants macerated in Kentucky bourbon.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Mm.

[Dan Pashman]

Then the cake gets a honey thyme soak, giving it all an herby vibe that cuts the sweetness just right. You got the apples, the currants, and then cake and the frosting. It's like every bite is different.

[Grace Pack]

Mm.

[Dan Pashman]

Well, I think you've done some great work here, Grace.

[Julie Booth]

Thank you.

[Dan Pashman]

I can't wait to see the finished product. Happy birthday.

[Grace Pack]

Happy birthday, America.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

Mmm.

[Dan Pashman]

Coming up, I head to D.C. to see a member of Congress do his part to decorate the cake. Then we get a sneak peek at another exciting summer food event, and we go behind the scenes of the great Nash page. Stick around.

[Grace Pack]

It's time to open up a can of advertisements.

[Dan Pashman]

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[DSW Representative]

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[Dan Pashman]

Welcome back. A few weeks after my chat with Grace, we meet up in D.C.

[Emma Morgenstern]

all

[Dan Pashman]

right, Grace set the scene. Where are we? What's happening?

[Grace Pack]

We're in the Cannon Building, which is one of the house buildings on the Hill, and we're in the Rotunda with all this marble, beautiful decor.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace is in D.C. for the whole month constructing the cake. She's running from one congressional office to another in pursuit of her goal of getting at least one member of Congress from every state to help with the decorating. She's wearing a chef's coat with an America 250 seal on it, and she's got a collapsible cart on wheels with all of her cake decorating supplies.

[Grace Pack]

One thing is you can't bring sharp items here, so I had to be really creative, use X acto knives a lot for these detailed items.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Oh.

[Grace Pack]

So, yeah, I've been bringing wooden skewers. I brought a pizza cutter, which has been great.

[Dan Pashman]

And how's it going so far?

[Grace Pack]

Great. It's been really fun. Everyone's been having, like. Everyone's really excited for this cake, and it's something that they don't get to do, especially in their offices on the Hill.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Right.

[Dan Pashman]

There was like, laws, laws, laws.

[Grace Pack]

Exactly.

[Dan Pashman]

Laws, laws, laws.

[Julie Booth]

Yep.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Cake.

[Julie Booth]

Cake.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah. And everyone's happy and smiley.

[Dan Pashman]

Right? Right. What is the status of the overall design? What's the larger concept?

[Grace Pack]

Do you want to see the design?

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, my God.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Yes.

[Grace Pack]

I have it. Okay.

[Dan Pashman]

Wow. Grace rummages in her cart to find her iPad.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Okay, so.

[Julie Booth]

Oh.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Oh.

[Grace Pack]

Here's the design. It's large, as you remember. So the theme of the design is American made. So we're going to have all these painted elements kind of in the center of chocolate starbursts, and they're going to be scenes from history.

[Dan Pashman]

She points to a different section of the cake, which is the future part. This is where she's incorporated the children's art from the nationwide contest. Then there's a wavy bronze ribbon, which is where the members of Congress will come in. Each state will have a small sculpted item that represents it, and the congressperson will decorate that item. Even though Grace is showing me the design, I can't tell you more about it right now. It's highly classified, and it's all happening right now. And Grace is feeling the time crunch.

[Grace Pack]

But it's okay. I just won't sleep.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace and I leave the rotunda and head to the office of Congressman Tom Suozzi, who represents New York's third district, part of Long island, and a little bit of Queens.

[Grace Pack]

How are you guys doing?

[Emma Morgenstern]

Good.

[Grace Pack]

How are you?

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

What Am I doing Grace? Am I decorating a cake?

[Julie Booth]

You are.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Do I have to have any artistic ability?

[Jake Dill]

Maybe?

[Grace Pack]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace sets up a small folding table and lays out her equipment.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

I have no idea what's about to happen. I'm getting a little worried. She's got all these different devices and

[Dan Pashman]

Grace has set up a little pop up table. There's a pizza cutter. There's containers.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

It's not really. Is it a pizza cutter, though? Is it called a pizza cutter when you're.

[Grace Pack]

It's a pizza cutter.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Why is a pizza cutter for a cake?

[Grace Pack]

Because I couldn't bring in any sharp objects here.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

They don't want anything sharp in the halls of Congress, including members of the Congress.

[Dan Pashman]

How about elbows?

[Grace Pack]

I am going to first present with an apron.

[Santi Perez]

Ooh.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Am I supposed to wear this?

[Julie Booth]

Yes, please.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

All right. Thank you very much.

[Grace Pack]

Your jacket.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

I feel very, very bakery right now.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace shows the congressman her cake design and explains all the elements like she did for me. Then she breaks out an Empire State Building that she sculpted for modeling. Chocolate that will represent New York.

[Grace Pack]

Yeah. So we actually have the Empire State Building here.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

My grandfather put the lights on top of the Empire State Building. The electrician.

[Grace Pack]

Oh, my God.

[Dan Pashman]

IBEW Local 3. Grace wants the congressman to add some parts to the lower level of the building and some texture to the windows.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

I would like to have done something a little more creative than a little block of the Empire State Building.

[Grace Pack]

We can do an impromptu sculpting.

[Dan Pashman]

Grace is a master improviser. Congressman, I'll have you know.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

How about we put a little like a. We paint this yellow and put a yellow taxi passing in front of the Empire State Building.

[Grace Pack]

That's so cute. I love that idea.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

I like that.

[Grace Pack]

Oh, my God.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Look at this.

[Dan Pashman]

He's actually sculpting a taxi.

[Grace Pack]

Wait, he's actually sculpting a taxi.

[Dan Pashman]

It looks really good.

[DSW Representative]

What?

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Gotta do some wheels on it now.

[Dan Pashman]

I love how into it the congressman is getting. Cancel the rest of his meetings.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

What do you think?

[Grace Pack]

I love it.

[Dan Pashman]

I think it looks great. This is a real team member.

[Grace Pack]

This is, like, totally cool.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

If only Congress was like this and everybody would work together.

[Grace Pack]

Maybe they will.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

This is gonna turn everything around.

[Grace Pack]

You know, we are all working on this cake together, which is amazing.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

Can I put a wheel on?

[Grace Pack]

Oh, yeah. Oh, my God.

[Dan Pashman]

Please. How big should the wheel. The Empire State building is about 7 inches tall, and the little taxi isn't quite to scale, but it looks surprisingly good for someone who's never even touched modeling chocolate before. I think we can all have a lot of confidence in Grace that she's going to make it look amazing.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Yes, I have great confidence.

[Dan Pashman]

Before we leave, I have a few questions for Congressman Suozzi. I know that you were. You were a teenager in 1976.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

Yes.

[Dan Pashman]

When we celebrated our bicentennial.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Yep. I was 14 years old.

[Dan Pashman]

What are some of your memories from that?

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Everybody in the town was involved. It was such an exciting time. There was a great parade that we had, but we had a festival in our downtown, and people were dressed up in colonial costumes. And I just remember how excited I was about being an American.

[Dan Pashman]

How would you compare this upcoming celebration to that one?

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

I feel like we're a lot more fractured than we were back then. I think that because a lot of it has to do with the media is fractured, so we're not kind of all on the same page getting the same information. And I don't feel like it's as much of a community effort as it was back then. It would be great if we could get to that point as we get closer to the Fourth of July to get more people unified, celebrating the history of the greatest country in the history of the world.

[Dan Pashman]

Yeah. And it's interesting looking back. You know, the couple years leading up to 1976 were also rough years in American history. There was a major recession. There was an oil embargo. We've had rough times.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Watergate was right.

[Dan Pashman]

We were coming out of Watergate. We're coming out of Vietnam. There's always been. There have been struggles in American history before. I guess I'm optimistic that the issues you're talking about will hopefully be just a period of time as some of those rough issues.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Well, I couldn't stay involved in politics unless I was optimistic. I mean, it would be impossible. And I'm very optimistic because I have faith in people. So we have to get back to a place where we're kind of sharing some common interests. And I think that the 250th anniversary could be the start of that, because it's something we all share in common.

[Dan Pashman]

Thank you so much, Congressman.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Thank you, buddy.

[Dan Pashman]

Some people leave Congress and go into lobbying. I think this congressman might have a future in baking. My thanks to Congressman Tom Suozzi. And extra big thanks to Grace Pack. Her cake company is called Duchess of Cameron. The cake cutting ceremony will happen on July 4th at the library of Congress. The only people who actually get to eat the cake are one young person, a first grader, tiger skin, Scout and one senior, probably a veteran. You'll be able to go to the White House Visitor center to see the America 250 birthday cake on display starting July 6th through the end of the month. Now, America 250 isn't the only big thing happening this summer. In fact, this weekend many people will head to a small island off Manhattan called Governor's island for the Great Nosh. It's hosted by the Jewish Food Society. We featured them in an episode a couple years ago. The Great Nosh has become one of JFS signature events. A giant picnic with music, arts, and most importantly, some incredibly exciting food collabs. Usually the Nosh tries to pair a Jewish restaurant with a non Jewish one. And the results are extremely exciting and delicious. In anticipation of this epic food fest, we got the stories of two of these collabs to understand how they came to be. One is a pastrami taco. The other is a chicken tikka stuffed bagel. We'll start at Santo Taco, a small taqueri in Manhattan that's gotten a big following.

[Santi Perez]

I'm Santi, chief taco officer of Santo Taco.

[Dan Pashman]

Jake Dill.

[Jake Dill]

I'm the fifth generation owner at Katz's Deli.

[Dan Pashman]

Jake basically grew up at Katz's. It's a New York institution. It's been around since 1888. At six years old, little Jake was handing out order tickets to people in line. Now he runs the place, trying to balance tradition with the need to change.

[Jake Dill]

But I think I quickly realized how special and how amazing this place is and what is it means to so many people where, you know, I changed the bathrooms to make them bigger and more accommodating. And that was met with backlash.

[Dan Pashman]

People were upset that you made the bathrooms work better for customers.

[Jake Dill]

100%. I think any sort of change is met with skepticism at a place like Katz's Deli that has so much history in it and means so much to people. It's more than just food, right? There's nostalgia and an atmosphere component to that experience.

[Dan Pashman]

But Jake isn't afraid of change, which is why he's paired up with Santo Taco for the Great Nosh. Xante Perez grew up in Mexico City. He came to New York and founded the fine dining restaurant Cosme, which earned a Michelin star. Last year. He turned his focus to Santo Taco.

[Santi Perez]

12 years have been primarily focused on fine dining, and I really wanted to take some of those elements from fine dining and apply it to a fast food setting. So the attention to detail, the quality of the Ingredients, you know, like caring about the design and the hospitality, and that's how Santo Taco was born last year. I just learned this morning from the team at the Great Nosh that Katz is the oldest brand or collaborator in the festival, and we're the youngest. So, like, we carry a one year history, whereas you guys carry a 138 year history. It's a lot of responsibility, for sure.

[Dan Pashman]

What were some of the early ideas that you were throwing back and forth?

[Jake Dill]

I think there was a Reuben taco.

[Santi Perez]

Yeah.

[Congressman Tom Suozzi]

Okay.

[Jake Dill]

And. And that we transitioned to more. Just, let's keep it classic with the pastrami.

[Dan Pashman]

I'm very happy that you went with pastrami over corned beef, because this is my.

[Jake Dill]

People have a lot of feelings on.

[Dan Pashman]

I know, listen, you know, shots fired. I get it. Shots fired. But I really. Look, I'm not against corned beef. I like a Reuben. Corned beef is good. But I just feel like pastrami in general, in the world is running circles around corned beef.

[Jake Dill]

I have to agree with you. I will say there are a lot of people who would disagree with you. I mean, we do about 18, 20,000 pounds of corned beef every week. So there are a lot of different.

[Dan Pashman]

How many pounds of pastrami there?

[Jake Dill]

Double.

[Dan Pashman]

Like £40,000.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

Okay.

[Dan Pashman]

All right.

[Jake Dill]

Yes.

[Dan Pashman]

Santi, what's your take? Pastrami or corned beef?

[Santi Perez]

Pastrami. For me, there was no doubt, you know, but I would have played a lot.

[Dan Pashman]

While Jake brings the culture and history of Katz's Deli to this collab, Santi will bring the culture and history of the taco.

[Santi Perez]

I mean, Mexico is a giant country, and the fact that there are so many types of tacos is just a function of how rich and large the land is.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Right.

[Santi Perez]

But I would say there is a common denominator across all tacos. There are three elements. One, it needs to have a tortilla. It needs to have a protein or, you know, like a filling, and it needs to have a great salsa. I think the most important part that people often overlook is the salsa because it adds a lot of personality and distinction to the taco. Part of what makes this collaboration so exciting is that the base of the idea is, okay, pastrami on a tortilla, but, like, actually, what's going on on top of that, it's even more interesting because there's like a juxtaposition of flavors.

[Dan Pashman]

So what do they land on?

[Santi Perez]

First, you have a tortilla. It's an heirloom corn tortilla. Then we put a spoonful of avocado salsa, two slices of pastrami, then we add a red salsa inspired by the Russian dressing.

[Dan Pashman]

By Katz's Russian dressing.

[Santi Perez]

Yeah, yeah. The hint of habanero to add a little bit of kick. And then our scaveche, which has carrot jalapenos and their pickles. So, yeah. All together, it's an explosion of flavors. We'll get to test it.

[Dan Pashman]

Yeah, yeah. But, like, this is one of the. The things that I think makes the great Nosh such a fun and special event. They're always unexpected collabs.

[Aiden]

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, is this it?

[Santi Perez]

Thank you.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, my goodness. Here we go. You guys are gonna eat with me, right?

[Santi Perez]

Yeah, of course.

[Dan Pashman]

All right, here we go. First bite.

[Santi Perez]

All right, let's do this.

[Dan Pashman]

Oh, man.

[Jake Dill]

See what I'm saying? Like, each bite, you kind of. Of like.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Yeah.

[Jake Dill]

Keeps growing on you because right off

[Dan Pashman]

the bat, the pastrami hits you.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

Yes.

[Dan Pashman]

But then comes, like, everything else. The pickling and the acid and then the spice. Like, I'm still figuring out what I just ate.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Dan Pashman]

I love this. Oh, my goodness. That was honestly one of the best tacos I've ever had in my life. Next we head to Moonrise Bagels in Manhattan.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

I'm Jeremy Rhodes from Moonrise Bagels.

[Chintan Pandya]

Hi, I'm Chintan Pandya from Unapolitic Foods.

[Dan Pashman]

Moonrise is not your traditional bagel shop. They make stuffed bagels, which is pretty unique in the New York bagel scene. There's a bacon, egg and cheese bagel, buffalo chicken bagel, and pizza bagel. All the fillings are sealed and wrapped inside the bagel before it's cooked. For the great nosh, Moonrise is teaming up with Unapologetic Foods, the folks behind the hit restaurants Damaka, the Michelin starred Sema and Rowdy Rooster.

[Chintan Pandya]

It's two different cultures coming with one of their signature dishes and making it one dish. So it's going to be a fun Jewish Indian dish, which is a stuffed chicken tikka bagel. So it's basically barbecue chicken has got a little kick to it, little spice to it, and then we have a little tomato based sauce going along with it to dip in and eat it. And what fun than having it inside a bagel?

[Jeremy Rhodes]

Yeah. So Chintin's team did all the really hard stuff by making this lovely filling for us. So then we took that and we rolled it into our bagels using our bagel dough, you know, very New York style. It's high gluten in flour. We then roll it we hand roll everything, and then we boil it and

[Dan Pashman]

bake it as we meet them. Chintin and Jeremy are not 100% set on their dish. There's three variations they have to choose from. A hand pulled chicken tikka, a chopped one, and one with extra sauce inside. Today they're making all three, tasting them, and deciding which one will make it to the great nosh. First, the bagels get boiled.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

So when we're boiling our bagels, we're looking for the lovely shape to take place. We're looking for a certain texture. It's like a little tackiness to the dough, and we kind of go for, like, a specific color. So it's anywhere from 30 seconds to 2 minutes.

[Dan Pashman]

After boiling, the bagels go into the oven for 15 minutes. Once they're out of the oven, Jeremy adds a sprinkle of masala powder.

[Chintan Pandya]

So it's just a in house spice blend that we have that we put on our kebabs, actually. So there's a red chili powder, then there is dried mango powder, cumin powder. So it's a blend of multiple things.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Yeah.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

I think for us, we really like to expand people's minds in a way, have them think about a bagel a little differently. And, you know, I don't think there are many people out there who would say, indian bagel, let's have it. But I think after today, they definitely will.

[Dan Pashman]

The bagels are done, but there's one more element to this dish.

[Chintan Pandya]

There's a quintessential butter masala sauce. It's good. Tomatoes, some butter, butter cream, everything that is good and that people love to eat. That's it.

[Dan Pashman]

A dipping sauce for the bagel. You know, I love sauce on the side, which allows you to manage your dip ratio on a per bite basis. I'm very, very into this concept. But now it's time for Jeremy and Chinton to decide between the three bagels. Chopped chicken, pulled chicken, extra sauce. After taking their taste, they debate the merits of each one.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

I've seen the bagel just kind of get a little soggy in the past, maybe if there's a little too much sauce in there. But what did you love about this flavor?

[Chintan Pandya]

I thought it's got a. It's got more punch to it. The sauce actually took it to the next level.

[Dan Pashman]

That's what I felt.

[Chintan Pandya]

Okay.

[Jeremy Rhodes]

Yeah. I was looking at it from a bagel perspective, which is so funny.

[Dan Pashman]

In the end, they decide on a compromise. Jeremy likes the pulled chicken one. Chinten liked the pulled chicken with extra sauce. So they split the difference and go with a little more sauce. A dish is born.

[Jake Dill]

All right, l'.

[Aiden]

Chaim.

[Dan Pashman]

That's Jeremy Rhodes of Moonrise Bagels and Chintan Panya of Unapologetic Foods. Before that, we heard Santi Perez of Santo Taco and Jake Dell of Katz's Deli. The Great Nosh is this Sunday, June 21, on Governor's island in New York. Get info and tickets if they're still [e-mail] next week on the show, we're back in the salad spinner with with Washington Post restaurant critic Elazar Sontag and Bloomberg News reporter Dina Shankar. We'll talk about the quirkiest and most surprising food news of the moment. That's next week. While you wait for that one, check out last week's episode where I visit the 1970s test kitchen for Ebony magazine, which had a huge influence on the way we understand black American food. And hey, did you know you can listen to the Sporkful on the Sirius XM app? Yes, the SiriusXM app. It has all your favorite podcasts, plus over 200 A.D. free music channels curated by genre and era, plus live sports coverage. Does your podcasting app have that? And there's interviews with a list, stars, and so much more. It's everything you want in a podcast app and music app all rolled into one. Right now, Sporkful listeners can get three months free of the Sirius XM app by going to SiriusXM.com Sporkful this episode was produced by me, along with managing producer Emma Morgenstern and senior producer Andres o'.

[Emma Morgenstern]

Hara.

[Dan Pashman]

It was edited by by Camille Stanley. Our engineer is Jared o'.

[Angie.com Electrician]

Connell.

[Dan Pashman]

Music help from Black Label Music. The Sporkful is a production of Sirius XM podcast. Our executive producer is Camille Stanley. Until next time, I'm Dan Pashman. And I'm Scott Deter from Cleveland, Ohio,

[Emma Morgenstern]

reminding you to eat more, eat better, and eat more better.

[Dan Pashman]

This segment is brought to you by Miralax. So, Julie, tell me about the first time you accompanied Aiden to watch a soccer game.

[Julie Booth]

Okay, so Aiden and I had met and we were both living in New York City. This would have been 2012. And we were in grad school. We were dating. He woke me up at like 6am to say I have to go to Midtown to watch a football game. Game. Which he means soccer. But he would never say the word.

[Jake Dill]

Soccer.

[Grace Pack]

That's right.

[Aiden]

Still dumb.

[Dan Pashman]

So you're right. We'll respect your wishes for this segment, Aiden. We'll call it Football. So we gotta go watch the football match and what are you thinking Julie?

[Julie Booth]

Well, I was confused. I was like, it's six in the morning, there's no football on, like surely. And I was a little annoyed because I love sleep.

[Dan Pashman]

This is my co worker Julie Booth and her husband and Aiden. Aiden is English, so to him we're in the midst of the world's biggest football tournament. Which is why here on the show we're talking with soccer football fans about their love of the game and the foods and drinks they associate with it. When Aiden woke Julie up that morning, it was to go see his favorite team, Leeds United.

[Aiden]

I always say that if you don't experience the lows of which being a Leeds fan there are many, then you're never going to experience the highs when they do come. So that's what I keep telling myself in order to be a Leeds fun.

[Dan Pashman]

Despite his commitment to Leeds United, Aiden knew Julie wasn't quite so enthusiastic.

[Julie Booth]

So he wakes me up and says he's going. And he said do you want to come with me? And I said no, why would I want to do that at 6 in the morning? And he said, well if you come I'll buy you breakfast. And I was kind of like, okay, sure.

[Dan Pashman]

Aiden brought Julie to a New York sports bar called Legends, where a lot of British football fans gather to watch games.

[Aiden]

I mean the great thing about that place is, you know, there's, there's people from all over that come and join. So you know I, I met those folks within the first week that I came to New York City and it was just like a group of Leeds fans and they just all welcomed you in and it was like, yeah, this is where we go watch the games, so come on down. And you've kind of got a home away from home, which is awesome.

[Julie Booth]

So yeah, so we get on the subway, we go down to this bar in midtown Manhattan and it's full by the way, of Leeds fans, whoever they were playing that day. Fans. There's like scarves and everyone is drinking beer at 7am and I said can I get a coffee? And the bartender was like, if you wait for me to make it for like 10 minutes, you had to brew a pot even though it was 7am

[Dan Pashman]

so Julie, you finally get your coffee

[Julie Booth]

in a pint glass.

[Dan Pashman]

And what did all these Leeds fans make of you? Were there other non Leeds fans who had come along as friends and guests?

[Julie Booth]

I got a lot of Brownie points for showing up. There was men and women, but a lot of the guys Had American girlfriends who didn't go. Everyone was very welcoming.

[Dan Pashman]

And, Julie, Aiden said he was gonna buy your breakfast. What'd you get?

[Julie Booth]

So this is the thing that started it all. So I'm looking at the menu, and Aiden says, you have to order a

[Dan Pashman]

bacon Buddy that's b u T T Y.

[Julie Booth]

Yes.

[Dan Pashman]

Which is basically like a butter sandwich. Is that right, Aiden?

[Aiden]

Yeah, a bacon sandwich. But like. Like not the bacon that you get over here. Not the streaky kind.

[Santi Perez]

Right.

[Aiden]

It's like the. The proper. Well, I'd call it proper back bacon. So it's like a. A real sandwich that you can get into.

[Emma Morgenstern]

It's me.

[Dan Pashman]

It's meatier, less fat.

[Aiden]

There you go. Yeah, exactly.

[Dan Pashman]

So, Julie, how was it?

[Julie Booth]

It was so good. So this is the thing. He says, get the bacon buddy. And I did. I said, what is that? He said, it's a bacon sandwich. And that sounds really boring, but I got it a bacon Buddy with hot sauce. And it comes and it's so good. Like Aiden said, the bacon is very thick. It's very crisp. The roll they put it on is buttery. It's kind of like a roll you would get at a bodega. It's hot. It's very filling. It's great when you're hungover. I wasn't that day, but I have since learned it's great when you're hungover. And so that was our tradition. So anytime Leeds would play, he would be like, come to the bar with me. I'll buy you a bacon sandwich.

[Aiden]

And another point is it lines your stomach, right? So you get that started, and then you have your pine and you're good to go. You set up for success.

[Dan Pashman]

Julie, have you gotten to the point where you can switch from coffee to beer at some point at that hour?

[Julie Booth]

No, I. I really cannot drink beer at 7am Still.

[Dan Pashman]

So what did you think, Aiden, when Julie started becoming regular at these games?

[Aiden]

Proud. And yet, you know, there was a part of me that also just felt inherently sad for her that, you know, she has to go go through this.

[Dan Pashman]

You mean go go through the experience of watching leads struggle, not the experience of coming to the pub and eating the bacon sandwich. Got it. Okay. Through the best of leads and the worst of leads, Julie and Aiden's relationship has blossomed. They're now married with two kids, and with all the nations of the world facing off right now, the household is pulling for the US And England. Well, Aiden's mostly pulling for England.

[Aiden]

The last time we won, it was 66. And growing up you're always like, yeah, I want my team to be the ones that go ahead and win it. So there's a lot of pressure and you kind of like, okay, what we're going to do.

[Dan Pashman]

Julie, what are England matches like for you these days?

[Julie Booth]

I don't get as stressed as Aiden, but I definitely feel a kinship. My husband and now my kids are British. I want them to win and to do well. Actually, I grew up kind of on the periphery of sports. Like, no one in my immediate family was big. There just wasn't a lot of like, sports stuff. And then I met Aiden and he had this huge love for Leeds and, and football. And it's been really fun to like be part of a big fandom and have our schedule work around Leeds games and England games.

[Aiden]

It's funny, I thought you your first reaction when, when you got asked that question was just going to be laugh loud.

[Julie Booth]

It is loud, but I'm. You say that, but like, I've embraced the loud. I take a cowbell now to sporting events.

[Dan Pashman]

Thank you again to the sponsor of today's segment, Miralax. Listen, we're gonna talk about constipation, okay? It's not awkward. Nothing to be ashamed of. It happens to everybody, okay? And a lot of things can lead to it, from a change in your routine or diet to stress. Or maybe it's when you're traveling. You know, it's hard to stay on top of your water intake. Maybe you're eating poorly, you're changing your routine or diet. All these things can cause constipation and Miralax provides gentle relief. Miralax comes in a bottle or mix in packs that are easy to put in your luggage pocket or bag. For on the go relief, you just mix one packet with 4 to 8 ounces of liquid, stir and drink. It works naturally with the water in your body to hydrate and soften for a comfortable go. If you're traveling this summer, you want to have some Miralax nearby and it doesn't cause harsh side effects. No cramping, bloating, gas or sudden urgency. It's the number one doctor recommended over the counter laxative brand. So travel gut smart adventure right with on the go Constipation Relief. Shop now at any retailer near you. Use as directed for occasional constipation.

[Emma Morgenstern]

The Colonel's cooked up a new ten dollar bucket of the day just for you. Monday, 24 nuggets for $10. Tuesday, eight piece fried chicken for $10. Wednesday, ten wings for $10. Thursday, eight tenders for ten dollars Friday 24 nuggets for. Oh, you guessed it, didn't you? Ten dollars the ten dollar bucket of the day deal every weekday only at KFC. It's finger licking goo prices and participation variable supplies.

[Dan Pashman]

Last amount available on third party ordering platforms.

[Grace Pack]

Tax extra.

[Angie.com Electrician]

Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end.

[Julie Booth]

Huh.

[Angie.com Electrician]

Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace.

[Dan Pashman]

Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff.

[Angie.com Electrician]

Nibbles would have loved you like a brother.

[Dan Pashman]

Connecting homeowners with skilled pros for over 30 years. Angie the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home [e-mail].