Kameron N. Saunders: Redefining the Mold

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Squeeze – Kameron N. Saunders: Redefining the Mold
Air Date: August 5, 2026
Hosts: Taylor Lautner & Taylor Lautner (husband and wife)
Guest: Kameron N. Saunders, dancer, choreographer, ERAS Tour performer

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Overview

This episode features an in-depth, candid conversation with Kameron N. Saunders, celebrated for his work as a dancer on the ERAS Tour and known for his presence, joy, and authenticity both on and off stage. The discussion dives into Kameron’s pathway into dance, his experiences navigating body image expectations in the industry, mental health, social media, relationships, and what it means to show up authentically in every aspect of life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Opening & Icebreaker

• Citrus Got Real segment, where guests and hosts answer a quirky question.
  • Kameron reveals his strong dislike for “kitten heels”:

    “I hate kitten heels. I despise a kitten heel and I don’t wear, I’m not, you know, but… I see a kitten heel and I’m like, this wants… this has aspirations of being a real heel.” (07:07, Kameron N. Saunders)

  • Hosts and Kameron riff on the aesthetics of shoes and TV preferences, setting a playful and open tone.

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Kameron’s Dance Journey & Discovery

• Kameron traces his early roots in dance, starting in communal spaces with his mother’s West African dance classes, then formal training in middle school.
• Fell into dance more seriously in high school, shifted away from academic focus against parental wishes, and eventually pursued dance in college.

  “I knew very clearly that that was what I wanted to do. And so I was trying to flunk myself out of the academic school so that I could go to the performing arts school with all my friends.” (10:18, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Initially drawn solely to performance and the stage. Teaching and choreography came later, somewhat out of necessity due to industry bias.

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The Reality of Studying Dance

• Kameron and Host Taylor discuss how studying dance in a formal, graded environment can sap some of the original passion.
• Dance grading, focus on perfection, and industry demands burn many students out. Kameron shares he retained his love for the craft by focusing on enjoyment over competition:

  “It just so happened that I was being graded for this thing. And I could care less what the grade was because I enjoyed studying the craft of performing.” (16:38, Kameron N. Saunders)

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Body Image & Othering in Dance

• Kameron opens up about feeling “othered” for not fitting the traditional dancer mold – ignored or overlooked in class, subtle biases, silent judgments.

  “I was very aware that I was not like a lot of the other people in the classroom. Whether that meant teachers kind of would not talk to me or like walk by me as they would correct someone else… It’s something I’m actively combating.” (17:46 & 18:30, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Validation now comes from representation—being a role model for those who see themselves in him.

  “I know what I mean to people who look and feel like me and who see themselves in me… Staying inspired in a field that was not made for you can be rough.” (19:00, Kameron N. Saunders)

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Strategies for Coping and Advice to Young Dancers

• Kameron stresses the importance of supportive relationships:

  “Find your people and lean on them. Because the weight of whatever thing you are chasing… doesn’t stop. The more you chase that thing, the more the pressure becomes more and more dense.” (20:34, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Cites the crucial role of mentors and building a tribe.

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Touring & The ERAS Tour Experience

• Kameron’s first major tour experience was with Saucy Santana (2021), then the ERAS Tour with Taylor Swift.
• Describes the tour as emotionally and physically taxing—but ultimately exhilarating, never feeling like “work.”

  “I never felt like I was working. Not working once. Not once. Not once. It was heaven, the entire experience.” (34:41, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Describes the immediate connection with massive audiences, the “collective high,” and oneness.

  “I think about it often because you get on social media and you see people whose lives have changed because of attending this… It was so incredibly perfect and I felt every ounce of what people were feeling as it was happening.” (35:58, Kameron N. Saunders)

• When the ERAS tour ended, he experienced a strange sense of emptiness and longing for the routine and the connection:

  “When it finished, it didn’t feel like it finished. My body was like, when is the next show? What’s next? …I was waiting for that.” (39:15, Kameron N. Saunders)

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Mental Health & Therapy

• Kameron began therapy in 2019 after a move to New York proved challenging.
• Candid about how therapy helped him understand and regulate his mental health, especially as someone in a high-pressure, highly visible field.

  “My introduction into serving my mental health in a way that makes sense and keeps me on top of things, like, keeps me actively choosing better for myself and those around me.” (48:16, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Emphasizes proactive therapy—developing tools before hitting crisis point.

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Social Media: Love/Hate Relationship

• Kameron has a nuanced relationship with social media—sees the necessity for career, but avoids overwhelm by disabling notifications and setting boundaries.

  “My relationship is… It’s on and off, meaning I have all of my notifications for every app turned off… The volume of which that comes at you can be aggressive.” (51:02, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Recognizes the positive community aspects, but also the anxiety from the obligation to stay connected, both professionally and for family.

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Authenticity, Self-Worth, and the Next Chapter

• Kameron’s core message: Be authentic, show up as the full version of yourself, no matter the circumstances.

  “Authenticity…That is, like, the hallmark of what I stand for. I want everyone to know that whatever the career path, whatever the circumstance, whatever’s in front of you, showing up as the biggest version of yourself I think is so extremely important.” (55:32, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Moving more into acting while still holding on to dance—and bringing the same authenticity to new endeavors.

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What Kameron Is Most Proud Of

• Most proud of his presence and support for his loved ones:

  “Showing up for people with heart and with passion and with kindness and generosity and all the things that make a great person, showing up for others with that only makes the universe give that back to you tenfold.” (59:56, Kameron N. Saunders)

• Inspired by Viola Davis’ stance that personal impact, not accolades, are lasting.

  “What’s more important to me is my relationship to those that love me and the impact I have to those that I do not know. That I think is what keeps me actively choosing the things that I love and the people that I love…” (59:55, Kameron N. Saunders)

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Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

• “I see a kitten heel and I’m like, this has aspirations of being a real heel.” (07:23)
• “If y’all won’t see me in this way, then I’ll teach and I’ll choreograph. And I kind of fell into those out of spite. And I was like, oh, I’m actually kind of good at this.” (12:10)
• “Being in class, I loved. Being in a rehearsal, I loved. It just so happened that I was being graded for this thing.” (16:38)
• “Find your people and lean on them. Because the weight of whatever thing you are chasing… doesn’t stop.” (20:34)
• “I never felt like I was working. Not working once. Not once. Not once. It was heaven, the entire experience.” (34:41)
• “Authenticity… That is, like, the hallmark of what I stand for.” (55:32)
• “Showing up for people with heart and with passion and with kindness… only makes the universe give that back to you tenfold.” (59:56)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:51 – Kameron introduced and joins the conversation
• 07:07 – Kameron’s infamous kitten heel hot take
• 08:31 – Kameron describes his start in dance
• 12:10 – Realization about industry bias, pivoting to teaching/choreography
• 17:46 – Body image issues and being “othered” in dance
• 20:34 – Advice: the importance of finding your people
• 29:58 – First tour experiences, and entering commercial dance world
• 33:06 – The rush of opening each ERAS tour show
• 39:15 – Processing the end of the tour and the emotional letdown
• 46:31 – Starting therapy and mental health maintenance
• 51:02 – Strategies for social media management
• 55:32 – Kameron’s message about authenticity and self-worth
• 59:56 – Reflection on what Kameron is most proud of

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Conclusion

This episode is a vibrant, honest look into the journey of an artist challenging industry standards and embracing personal authenticity. Kameron N. Saunders shares wisdom on following your joy, maintaining mental health, rejecting external limits, and caring for your tribe. His story offers inspiration not just for dancers and performers, but for anyone seeking to redefine the mold and show up bravely as themselves.

Transcript

[Cameron N. Saunders]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Wait, who's he? And are they dating? Wait. And she just kissed all of them. Wait, what is happening here? I hate kitten heels. I despise a kitten heel. Either be a flat or a stiletto. I am probably not one to pass that type of judgment. I see a kitten heel and I'm like, this has aspirations of being a real heel. I never felt like I was working, not once. It was heav heaven the entire experience. My co workers, my boss. There were days where I was tired, oh my God, yes. But it never felt like a job. It never felt like a chore to do. I would do it again today. Like that's how perfect that was. I was very aware that I was not like a lot of the other people in the classroom. Whether that meant teachers kind of would not talk to me or like walk by me as they would correct someone else. Just certain things on how classrooms were run that made me oftentimes feel othered. We are conditioned to believe that dancers should look and move and be and act and think a certain way. It's something I'm actively combating. Staying inspired in a field that was not made for you can be rough.

[Host 1]

Foreign. Lemon drops. Welcome back to a very exciting episode of the Squeeze.

[Host 2]

I am so excited about this episode

[Host 1]

because I have been wanting to interview this guest for quite some time. I have heard nothing but amazing things about him and my time with him really stood true to that. And I would love to introduce to you Cameron N. Saunders. He is one of the most iconic dancers to grace the ERAS tour stage. That is how I was originally introduced to Cam. He is such a light, such a joy. And that feeling that you get watching him dance is truly just the same feeling you get by sitting in a room just talking one on one with him. We had such an intentional conversation. Obviously we talked about Cam's background in dance, where his love for dance came from. We talk about touring and what it was like being a part of one of the biggest tours, if not the biggest tour ever in history of touring and what that was like on his mental health as a performer. He also shared with me where he's at in his mental health journey, what that has looked like over the years. And we really dove into body image and this standard that is in the dance industry of dancers bodies needing to look and move a certain way and how Cam has really just taken that head on and how that's been for him throughout his whole dance career before he became a professional dancer and how that is on him still. Now, to this day, we talk about his relationship with social media, but also his relationship with his self worth and how that has evolved over the years. This was one of my favorite conversations that I've had in quite some time, just because I already knew I loved Cam and I completely just fell in love with him even more. You guys are going to love him and adore him, and I'm so excited for you, Lemon drops, to learn more about him and his story and where he came from and where he's going,

[Host 2]

not just as this backup dancer that

[Host 1]

we all saw on this iconic tour. So, without further ado, I hope you guys enjoy this episode as much as I did Cam.

[Host 2]

Welcome to the Squeeze.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I'm so happy to be here.

[Host 2]

This is so fun. I'm so excited to get in chat, get to sit down and chat.

[Host 1]

I have heard nothing but wonderful things

[Host 2]

about you from so many people.

[Host 1]

So I'm excited to just, like, dive deeper into your story and find out who you are and have our lemon drops. Those are our listeners. Yes, our lemon drops.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

High lemon drops.

[Host 2]

Hear your story. So we start off each episode with this jar.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Okay.

[Host 1]

It's a little game called citrus got Real. If you want to pull a piece of paper out of there and read it to us and. Okay. It'll be our final.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oh, gosh, should I be scared?

[Host 1]

I hope not.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Okay.

[Host 2]

Because I also answer the question, so that would not be good.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Okay. What's something everyone seems to love that you secretly hate? This is. Oh.

[Host 2]

Oh, I know mine.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

You know yours. What's yours?

[Host 2]

Well, I guess I don't secretly hate

[Host 1]

it, but I just haven't.

[Host 2]

I just can't get into it.

[Host 1]

Love island.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Okay. Okay. With that. Love Island. I was, like, vehemently, like, I'm not watching that show. I don't. I just. I didn't. I didn't understand it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And then my best friend made me start watching the most recent season. I think he put, like. I was like, episode five or something. And I was like. I would pass the TV as it was on. I was like, I'm not watching this. Wait, who's he? And are they dating? Wait. And she just kissed all of them. Wait, what is happening here? And the next thing I know, I watched the entire season, and it was good.

[Host 2]

Okay. Then I just. It's so many nights.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

It is.

[Host 2]

I think that's my problem. It's just so many nights, and then I miss, like, two nights, and then I'm trying to catch up, and then,

[Cameron N. Saunders]

like, miss another but then there are like the, the recap. Like there's like a night off a week and then one of those nights is a, is a recap of something or something like that. But yeah.

[Host 2]

Okay, so you're like those, the tiktoks I see of like the husbands that are like, of the girls watching their like off campus summer. I turn pretty shows and the husband

[Cameron N. Saunders]

just like, I literally like, that's how it started. And then I was the one that's like, okay, everyone get home so we can watch this.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Like it became a thing.

[Host 2]

Okay, I'm. I'll. I'll give it another shot.

[Host 1]

I'm not.

[Host 2]

We actually were gonna give it another shot this season, but then we were

[Host 1]

traveling and I just.

[Host 2]

It was like, I'm not gonna try to make the commitment, but I, I don't.

[Host 1]

I. Yeah, I know. I need to.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

It's good tv.

[Host 1]

I need to.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And the girls this season, Girl power, babe. I love them. I'm obsessed.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Okay, wait. That I secretly hate. I would say. Okay, I'm probably gonna get shit about this, but I hate kitten heels. I despise a kitten heel and I don't wear. I'm not, you know, but I don't know what it is.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What is it about it?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I think it's aesthetic. Like, I think that there's this like. I'm like either being a flat or a stiletto and I am probably not one to pass that type of judgment. I should not be that person.

[Host 2]

So good.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

But I am because I just, I see a kitten heel and I'm like, this wants. This has aspirations of being a real heel.

[Host 2]

What if it's a close toe, like of part pointed kitten. Is there one that's better? Because I don't do the open toe, but I do the.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I do the like.

[Host 2]

Like a pointy closed toe.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yes. Sling back.

[Host 2]

Yeah. You can get amongst that?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I can.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I can't. It's really. I think it's about the silhouette, the shape, the silhouette of the heel. But if I. Oh, God, I don't know. I just can't. They're going to eat me alive for saying kitten heels. But I just.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I'm not gonna look at my kitten heels the same now.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I'm so sorry.

[Host 2]

It's okay. I can't fit them anyways with my little puff pastries feet, so I'm not wearing them.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

That's okay. That's okay.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Hopefully I forget by the time the swelling goes back down. Awesome. Okay, well, I want to start with Talking about dance. Yes, because you dance and I love watching you dance. But when? I want to start from the beginning.

[Host 1]

When did dance start for you?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Okay. I remember dancing very young, but like, you know, family, communal sort of spaces.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I didn't start taking class until I was around middle school age. My mom, when I was really young, my mom started taking West Africa, these sort of community, West African based dance classes. And she would bring my brother and I loved it. Like the, the drumming was so loud, the energy was so perfect. And I would kind of just run around in the space and that. That teacher later became a mentor of mine. But it wasn't until I got into middle school, she enrolled me in a performing arts middle school. And you got to choose your electives. And my sixth grade year, I chose acting and band. Hated it. Hate it. Band.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Love the acting class.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

But then all the cool kids were doing dance and mass media, which was essentially a photography class. And I was like, I want to do that. Like, I don't. I'm just gonna go and be with all the cool kids. And I was like, this is perfect. Tap, jazz, ballet. It was, it was through the school. So it wasn't like super intense training.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

But that's where I met a lot of my current friends was in that school. And then I got to high school, and there's a performing arts high school that all of those friends I met went to. And my mother was not having it because of the, the education.

[Host 1]

Okay.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And she wanted me to go to this really academic high school. And I was like, no, I want to dance. And I knew very clearly that that was what I wanted to do. And so I was trying to flunk myself out of the academic school so that I could go to the performing arts school with all my friends. Because my school, our grading scale went ABCF. We didn't have Ds.

[Host 2]

Oh.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And so. And if you had two or more Fs on your report card, so anything under 70%, they kicked you out like that.

[Host 1]

Oh, wow.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And so I was like, okay, well, I know I want to dance. And she's not letting me go to the school, so I'm going to flunk out. And I was like, actively not doing homework. I was actively not. It was. And I'm a nerd. It was terrible.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And so I. She was like, if you stay here, let's. We'll find you dance outside of school. And I didn't know that that existed, like training at studios. I had no idea that that was a thing so then I started training. I was in nine classes a week throughout high school. I went to college for it, and that became my, like, thing. I was like, I'm going to dance, whatever the discipline, Ballet, jazz, hip hop, tap, whatever it was. I knew I was going to be doing something in the realm of movement, whether I was writing about it, teaching it, choreographing it. Um, so, yeah, that's kind of where it started.

[Host 2]

Where it started when you were, like, in. When you started taking those classes and when you were in college, was there something that was pulling you? Like, if you could have picked, like, was it. Was it performing? Was it teaching? Like, or were you really just like, I love this, and I'll literally do anything with it.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

For me, the calling was the stage. Like, I knew without a shadow of a doubt that I wanted to be performing. I wanted. I was. I felt like an entertainer. I wanted to be with lights on me and costumes, with makeup and music is going. And I was, you know, living my. My best performance life. And I quickly realized that the industry was not for people that were built like me. So I was like, well, if. If y' all won't. Won't see me in this way, then I'll teach and I'll choreograph. And I kind of fell into those out of spite. And I was like, oh, I'm actually kind of good at this. And so my passion for teaching and choreography developed. It wasn't something that kind of. That was innate. Like, performing was.

[Host 1]

Yeah,

[Cameron N. Saunders]

but. Yeah, that was the. The. I knew. And I still know that being on stage is like, it. Yeah, for me. But the other sort of avenues around dance. Excuse me. I kind of fell into later, and I. I love them equally, but I didn't start that way.

[Host 2]

Yeah, I want to know being. Were you a dance major in college? So that was my original major. I danced. I danced growing up, like, my. The whole life. And I was a dance major originally, before I switched to nursing.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Really?

[Host 2]

The 11 drops are like, we know. Also, I hate lady with like, I used to dance. But no, that's. That's what I did. I danced my whole life and.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

Went to college for dance, and then I ended up switching and bec. Doing nursing. And. Yeah, so love that. That's. I. I loved, like, hearing all that. But I want to know, because this is what I struggled with, being a dance major. Was it. It took a lot of the, like. And I don't know if it could have just been, like, the school or, like, what I Had going on in my life, but it took a lot of the, like, passion for dance out of it because it was just so much.

[Host 1]

I was getting graded on everything.

[Host 2]

And also, you know, it's just a very, like, modern. And, like, you're like, maybe you're buying. You're like, no, like, I. I love performing. I'm like. I'm, like, ready to, like, do. Actually do something. So it took a lot of the, like, love that I had for dance out of it. Did you struggle with that at all? Because I. I know that I'm. I have friends that, you know, were also dance majors, and they struggled with that of, like, finding the balance of it being something. Because growing up, it was always, like, an outlet for me because I didn't do it. I didn't go to, like, a performing arts school, but I did studio my whole life.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oh, love.

[Host 2]

So it was always the thing, like, after school I got to do for fun, and it was, like, my outlet. And then when it became my school, it was like, oh, like, this is. Isn't really my outlet anymore.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah, the. The. I fully understand that because a lot of my peers, both in high school and then once I got through college of quite a few of them burnt out. And I think that that is testimony to the culture of what's being asked of dancers in collegiate spaces. In any space, to be honest, but especially at that time, you know, a lot of people, A lot of my. I didn't start, like, training. Training until much later, but a lot of my friends and peers were, like, dancing at three and four and dancing with. With so much abandon and passion. And then you get into these spaces and they're like, you know, your hips are not the best you have. Your butt is too big or you need to cross your thighs more. Why can't you have a. You. Your feet better and, you know, higher demi point and more turn. Like, it gets really analytical and it can. And it can burn people out because of things that they may or may not be able to help. And so for me, I was like. I was not flexible. I did. I did. And do not have the best feet. I. You know, I'm not much of a turner, but I was overly passionate. Still am. About the craft. Being in class, I loved. Being in a rehearsal, I loved. It just so happened that I was being graded for this thing.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And I could care less what the grade was because I enjoyed the. Studying the craft of performing dance, whatever the discipline was. Um, and so that kept me. I think it. It separated sort of The. The. You must do this, and you must look like this, and you must be here and at this time, and you like it. It sort of removed the pressure of dance.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

You know.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Because I didn't. I never saw it in that way, but I had a lot of friends who did. And so I watched in real time.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

How that can break a person down in many ways.

[Host 2]

Yeah. For sure. You mentioned also the. Your body image and struggling with that, with dance. How. How was that effect on you? Did that happen? Or did you start to feel that when you went to college and started maybe like, performing more? Was that something you had always kind of dealt with?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Always. And not so much when I was doing dance in middle school, but once I got to high school and I found dance outside of school, I was very aware that I was not like a lot of the other people in the classroom. Whether that meant teachers kind of would not talk to me or like, walk by me as they would correct someone else or, you know, I. I just. Certain. Certain things on how classrooms were run that made me oftentimes feel othered, whether intentional or not.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And so I. That was something that has always been a part of my dance journey because we. We, you know, are conditioned to believe that dancers should look and move and be and act and think a certain way. So I'm. It's. It's something I'm actively combating.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

I was gonna say, how is that kind of morphed as you've now grown?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

It's yourself and become hopefully more confident in who.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Absolutely. I've. I've had the best support system. My mother, my brother, and my friends are like my bedrock. And so I. I'm often reminded of my power in the face of insecurity and the. Even now, like, I. I'm way more empowered and I know my. My strengths. I know. You know what I mean to people who look and feel like me and who see themselves in me. I'm quite aware of that and I hold that very, very close to my heart. But it wasn't always that. You know, staying inspired in a field that is not. Was not made for you can be rough. You know, so it has. It has morphed.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Things have changed. And I'm. And I'm way more present to my power in whatever body I have. This one. The body I had when I was in college and I was super tiny and I still thought I was overweight. The body I'll have 10 years from now, my worth inside of the craft. And as A person does not change because of what I look like.

[Host 1]

I love that.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Well, thank you.

[Host 2]

What advice would you give for someone that might be struggling with some of those things that you have and you know, we're struggling with.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

When you were younger, I think for me, and what I, what I suggest to anyone is find your people. Find your people. You know, friends, family, chosen family. Find your people and lean on them. Because the weight of responsibility, the weight of whatever thing you are chasing, whether it's dance or not, doesn't stop.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

It just, it. The more you chase that thing, the more the pressure becomes more and more dense. And so I lean on my people heavily. Even when I was training, I leaned on my people. I leaned on the people that inspired me in the craft. Like one of my mentors. Oh, gosh. One of my mentors when I was in high school, he's a choreographer and I wanted to be just like him. And the studio I trained at brought him in. His name is Darrell Grandmotri, amazing choreographer in New York City. And I admired him so much. Right before I graduated, I sent him this email and I messaged him on Facebook and I was like, hi, so I'm about to graduate high school. I love you and I love your work and I would love to shadow you. So I'm coming to New York and I need you to house me, and I need you to make sure that I'm taken care of for this week. And I'm gonna stay with you and I'm gonna walk around New York City with you. Just, just ambitious and bold. And he's like, well, no, but I will help you in other ways. But it's like that sort of like he's now a prominent figure for me as an inspiration and as a mentor and as a friend. And so I personally lean on those relationships to help me through any sort of uncertainty or insecurity. And I, and I would suggest people dealing with those things, find the thing that, that gives you joy and go after it, whatever that is, and bring the people with you. So they keep reminding you of that joy. So you're, you're often like, okay, okay, this isn't, this isn't as daunting as people around me are making it seem.

[Host 2]

Sure.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

You know, I love that. Yeah.

[Host 1]

There is a specific kind of summer day where you want to look like you put yourself together, but you also cannot handle anything restrictive or heavy on your body. And that is the breezily mid rise pant from Lululemon. And I have been living in it. It's made with Swift fabric, which is Lululemon's lightweight four way stretch, sweat wicking quick drying fabric. And on your body it just feels like almost nothing. It's drapey and relaxed without looking sloppy. It doesn't look like performance wear, which is completely the point. You could wear these on a beach day, out to lunch, running around all afternoon and you'd look intentional and put together the whole time. What I keep coming back to is how effortlessly it is going with everything I already own. I'm not building a new outfit around it, I just reach for it whenever I want to dress easy and look good and it delivers every single time during pregnancy, especially that kind of piece. Is everything comfortable enough to wear all day, polished enough that I don't feel like I'm just in loungewear? The Breezily collection has other styles too. A short, a cropped pant, a tank, a cargo pant. All the same drapey, lightweight feel and different silhouettes. But the mid rise pant is one I keep going back to. I wear Lululemon and you should too. Go to lululemon.com right now. New styles drop all the time and colors go fast so don't wait. And if something doesn't work for you, free returns always. That's lululemon.com lululemon.com getting enough protein has become such a priority for me lately and the thing I've realized is that it's so much easier when you've already got quality options ready to go. Not figuring it out at the last minute, not making an extra grocery run, just opening the free, knowing exactly what you're working with. That's what Butcherbox has done for my kitchen. ButcherBox delivers 100% grass fed beef, organic chicken, wild caught seafood and more, all sourced to standards they can actually tell you about. They've already done their research and made the tough sourcing decisions, so all you have to do is decide what's for dinner. It's like having a neighborhood butcher who is incredibly particular about quality and sourcing so you don't have to. Every box is completely customizable so you can choose the cuts and the proteins that actually fit your routine. I keep the grass fed ground beef stocked constantly because it's the most versatile thing in my freezer. A quick weeknight dinner, something to throw together when I don't have a plan. It just works every time and the quality is genuinely different. And you can taste it. Whether you're grilling out with friends, feeding a family on a busy Tuesday, or just trying to avoid another expensive takeout order, Butcherbox means you've already got something great ready to go. If you're looking for an easier way to get great meals on the table, give Butcherbox a try. Go to butcherbox.com squeeze to get $20 off your first box. Plus your choice of free ground beef for life or free chicken thighs or top sirloins. And every box for a year with free shipping always. That's ButcherBox.com squeeze again. That's ButcherBox.com Squeeze be sure to use our link so that they know we sent you. Summer goes so fast. Like you blink and it's August and somehow it's already time to think about back to school. But honestly, that shift is one of my favorite things. There's something about a new school year that just feels full of possibility. And Ross is the place I'd go to kick it all off. Right. I remember one particular year when I came back from summer feeling like I finally had a handle on my own style. I knew what I liked, I knew it felt like me and I wanted that first day outfit to reflect that. That kind of moment is a big deal when you're a kid. The chance to walk through those doors feeling like themselves. And I want that for my own child someday. That's what Ross is all about. They have everything a kid could need to pull together their look for the new year, whatever that look is at 20 to 60% off retailers prices. So whether your kid comes back from summer as a full on athlete or total creative or completely reinvented from who they were in June, Ross has the pieces to make it happen. And it's not just clothes. It really is the one stop shop for the whole back to school moment. Ross has school supplies, tech accessories, dorm room decorations for the college crowd, all of it. You can get so much done in one trip without the overwhelm of trying to figure out where to go for what. I also love that shopping at Ross is actually fun. There's something about the experience of finding the perfect thing at a price that doesn't make you wince. That just makes the whole whole trip better. You can get so much done in one place without having to run all over the town. You can come in with a list and leave feeling good about what you got. Which at this time of year is exactly the kind of win every parent needs.

[Host 2]

Find your nearest ross@ross stores.com okay, back to dance. What?

[Host 1]

What was the first tour you went

[Host 2]

on

[Cameron N. Saunders]

as a performer? I Ooh. I danced for Saucy Santana and He had spot dates opening up for Lizzo's arena tour. That was in 2021, I believe, which feels not that long ago. But it's like pre. That pre touring in that world. I was not. Commercial work was not a thing for me. I was like, I'm going to be a company dancer. I'm going to get a job that is like, stable living in one city that tours, you know, a few times a year. Like, that was my thinking because that is how I was trained. You train, you go to college, you get your degree, you get a company job somewhere in, like, Chicago or New York or something. You offset that because dancers do not make a lot of money as some sort of like, waiter or barista. And then you go back to school and get your master's and then you become a professor and retire. That's the, like. Yeah, the plan a lot of people have. And I. I met a friend when I was living in New York, and she's like, so I'm on a project. I would like for you to learn this thing and just send it in to me and come to find out that was my first movie. That film sort of catapulted me into all things commercial work.

[Host 2]

Okay.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Which has been a ride.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I love it so much.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That's so special. I obviously want to get. I love talking about touring because whenever I have artists on talking about touring because there is so much mental health that goes into.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oh, my God.

[Host 2]

People don't realize, don't think about or forget about. So. And obviously not only like, you being an artist, but also like, you're dancing and literally not meant. Not even just mentally, physically. Also because you are dancing and doing. Asking your body to do so much nights on end. I obviously want to talk about eras tour because I cannot fathom what that would be like mentally and physically as a dancer. And that's like one of my. Obviously I've seen the show a few times.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

That was honestly, like, when I go. When I go to see someone show, I'm always watching the dancers. Obviously, it's just the dancer in me.

[Host 1]

But I remember thinking the first show

[Host 2]

that I went to, like, what that must be like for you guys performing. Because not only is the audience huge, the Swifties, we are just one of a kind. Die hard. Like, the stakes, I feel like, would, like, feel so much higher going into that. Like, what was. Were you feeling pressure? I'm sure there was excitement. Like, what were those first few shows like for you?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oof. So I. It's funny because I. My friends would often ask me, like, oh, my God, you know, 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 people a show was that scary? Was. I'm like, absolutely not. Like, I eat that up. I just. The thrill of this sort of relationship of body to body, person on stage, people in the audience, like, that is so powerful and magnetic. And it's something I'm often. The feeling of that is something I'm chasing often. Yeah, in a healthy way. But it's like the thrill of that, I think, is so moving and powerful and so there. A job like that is so incredibly demanding, like you were saying, both physically and mentally. And the first few shows were. The entire run was absolutely magical. But the. That was my first time as a dancer on a headliner show. I wasn't an opening act. I wasn't, you know, so. So doing that was a new experience for me, but I wasn't. I think it found me at the time. It did because I needed to be ready. And I felt ready. I felt. I felt that this. Everything I had done up until this point was leading me to that. And so, you know, every single night, the garage door goes up and you. And, you know, all of us are. We're in our wings. And then you go through the door and the wing comes up. And that's the first time you see the audience. Magical.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Absolutely insane. Absolutely insane. Insane. And I don't. I don't take an experience like that lightly because it was just. I can't put into words the rush that gives you, you know, the people being transformed and watching it happen in real time. What? Yeah, like what? Like seeing, like actively seeing people in full tears and, you know, in their costumes that they made at two in the morning before they got to the stadium. Like, that experience. Perfect. Yeah, Absolutely perfect. And I think that regardless of. Not regardless, but even with what was being asked of my body, that's what you train for, to be able to deliver something like that. But it was like I never felt like I was working. Not working once. Not once. Not once. It was heaven, the entire experience. My co workers, my boss, my. The. The. The wonderful crew that. That made the show happen. I never felt like there were days where I was tired. Oh, my God, Yes.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

But it never felt like a job. It never felt like a chore to do. It didn't matter if we were on a plane hours. I was itching to be on the stage, burning to be on the stage. And, you know, even now that I've done something like that, I'm like, okay, yes. I've done a world tour and it was fun. I can check that off. I would do it again today.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Like, that's how perfect that was.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. It's. I hearing you say that, like, I. Makes me just smile because even just as an audience member like you, I honestly feel like that's one of the few shows I've seen where it's just like the feeling of everyone there is such like a collective love and high, like, and so nostalgic. And my girlfriends and I talk about all the time. We're like, can we just like go back?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Let's go back.

[Host 2]

Feeling like, let's go back.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Host 2]

It's just like that feeling of oneness and everyone there is just truly like loving and supportive and just like living their best life. So it's so sweet hearing that. That was equally felt from performer to viewer and vice versa, 100%.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I think it's. I think about it often because you get on social media and you see people whose lives have changed because of attending this or, you know, their moms who wanted to see this thing, or their, their daughters or their generations. At this one show, like, it was so incredibly perfect and I felt every ounce of what people were feeling as it was happening. Like, I would run off stage and feel this high and like in the van, headed back to the hotel or the airport or whatever, I'm still like, let's do it again. You know, like, it was so demanding but incredibly perfect.

[Host 2]

Yeah. When I started giggling because you're talking about when you come out of the garage with your little.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host 1]

When we were at the Kansas City

[Host 2]

show, my husband came out of the doors and like had to walk down the thing. He. He's the opposite. You and I are very similar.

[Host 1]

I would, I would live on a stage.

[Host 2]

I do not get nervous in front of people.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yes.

[Host 2]

It is the most life giving thing to me ever. He's like, no, I do not want to be on a stage. That is not how I do things.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

So when he's on stage and these doors open, he told me. He was like, I. He was like. I blacked out. Like, he was like, not okay. And all he had to do was walk. And of course. But it was a long day and I told him, we had this whole conversation was like, you're not gonna flip. You're just gonna walk. But then he saw how long the freaking stage is and then got nervous and then just flipped because he was like, how do I Get there quicker. I'm just gonna flip.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yep.

[Host 2]

But it's just so funny hearing the difference. It made me think of him just being like. It was so long that things opened. It was so bright. There were so many people. So it was. It was that. That made me think of him and his fear of that. And then hearing you be like, it was the best.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oh, babe. I'm like, more. Yeah, more people. Like, I think the show in. Oh, gosh. Melbourne, I think that per show was the most people that was. If I'm. I don't want to lie, but I feel like it was like, around 90,000.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

A night. Perfect. Perfect.

[Host 2]

It's so good.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I want. I'm like, more.

[Host 2]

Yeah, pack them in more.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Let's pack them in. It was so. I can't explain what it. What it feels like, but it's something that really transcends just daytoday. It is so magical.

[Host 1]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I'm like, I want that. I want that in my day to day. I want to feel that sort of connection, person to person, you know, for sure.

[Host 2]

How was it when the tour ended and even between, like, between the legs was. Did you ever feel a crash? Did you. Were you ever like, oh, okay, like, I need a minute. Like, what is the recovery? Or that, like, timeline after look like for you?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Like, when it was done, done or in. But like, on the breaks, I mean,

[Host 2]

those are either however you would like.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

So. So when it finished, it didn't feel like it finished. My body was like, when is the next show? What's next? Like, it felt like something was coming also because of how it was broken down with however long. We would do a leg, and then we'd have a month or a leg, and then we have a few weeks or, like, the breakdown of the tour. I had gotten used to breaks and then going back to the thing. And so when the tour finished, I was like, this is sad. And then I said, wait, this is where it's done. We are. There's no. We don't go back. We, like, this is so. It felt strange because I was waiting for, you know, okay, now we fly to Peru and go do. I was waiting for that. And so I think that there was a very interesting. Come to terms with reality, mentally speaking. And I'm like, okay, now I have to go find work. Like, it was. It was. It took a second to grasp that.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Because, you know, my body was ready to go back, but it was. It was. I miss it, but that's a different conversation for a different day.

[Host 2]

Yeah. No, I can only. I can only imagine. Yeah, those, those feelings towards missing it because I miss it.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

I. Oh gosh, it was so perfect.

[Host 1]

There are certain phrases that people say sarcastically and then one day you realize they actually just mean it. It's the most wonderful time of the year at Staples, and I'm telling you, once you become a parent or you're about to be one like me, you feel that in your bones. Back to school Season hits different when you understand what it actually means to have structure come back after a summer.

[Host 2]

That was a lot.

[Host 1]

And Staples is the reason that transition feels manageable instead of chaotic. There's something deeply relieving about the return

[Host 2]

of a routine, a schedule, a bedtime,

[Host 1]

a reason to have everything organized again. Staples fits right into that reset and makes the shopping part of it so much easier than it has to be. You can shop directly from your kids teacher's list, which means no standing in an aisle second guessing yourself about whether you have the right kind of folder. School supplies start at just 25 cents, so you can actually get everything on the list without it becoming a whole budget situation. And if you're coming in last minute, no judgment at all because Staples has a 30 minute in store pickup when you need to get it done fast. What I also love is that they make the experience actually fun for kids. Their personality filled supplies with character favorites like Bluey, hello Kitty, Spider man, the stuff that makes the kid care about packing their backpack. And they're fully stocked all season long, which is huge because back to school never really happens in one trip. Things get forgotten, things run out, kids change their mind, and Staples is just always there whenever you need to loop back. No scrambling required. If only. Everything in parenting came with an easy button. Check out staples.com thesqueeze for the most wonderful deals of the season. Something I've been way more intentional about lately is what's actually going into my food. And I don't just mean main ingredients. I mean the sauces, the dressings, the condiments. The stuff you pour on top that you don't really think about. That's where Primal Kitchen completely changed things for me. Their Caesar dressing is the one I keep coming back to. It's made with avocado oil, no seed oils, no sugar, no dairy. And when you flip it over and read the label, you actually recognize everything on it. That sounds like a low bar, but it genuinely isn't. It makes the best salad, the best wrap, and honestly the best whatever you're putting it on, the flavor is there the quality is there and I don't have to think twice about what's in it. Primal Kitchen was the first brand to bring avocado oil to sauces and condiments. They are now the fastest growing salad dressing brand in the US which honestly tracks completely. Once you try it, you get it. And it's not just the Caesar. They have a whole line of dressings, sauces, condiments and pantry staples all made with real ingredients. You can actually recognize burgers, sandwiches, grain bowls, whatever you're making. They have the thing that makes it better. What I love most is that the mission behind the brand is to just make real food easy and delicious. It's not complicated, it's just ingredients that make sense in products that taste incredible and that fit into whatever you're cooking. Find Primal Kitchen dressing, sauces and condiments at your local grocery store or on primalkitchen.com Primal Kitchen made for Real Food this episode is sponsored by Honest and Honestly. This one feels really personal to me right now because as someone who is expecting, I've been doing so much research on baby products lately. The amount of label reading, ingredient checking and general overthinking I've been doing when it comes to comes to what I'm going to use on my baby's skin is a whole new thing. And I feel like that's just what you do when you care because the decisions feel so important. That's exactly why I've been so drawn to Honest. They make baby essentials made for life's most delicate skin and the whole brand is built around this idea that parents deserve to feel genuinely confident in what they're using on their little ones. Honest holds every product to their highest standard. The Honest standard thoughtfully choosing the ingredients they put in and the ones they leave out. Their baby products are also hypoallergenic and dermatologist tested and that combination, knowing someone else that has already done the work and held it to a real standard genuinely gives me so much peace of mind as a first time parent still figuring all of this out. As a parent, you want to feel like someone has your back when it comes to this stuff, and Honest genuinely does. I think what really sets Honest apart for me is that it doesn't feel fear based or overwhelming. A lot of the conversation around baby products can feel really anxiety inducing, like you're constantly worried about making the wrong choice and Honest just flips that it's less about what to avoid and more about feeling good about what you're choosing. That shift in mindset has Honestly made me feel so much more calm going into this whole new chapter, knowing there's a brand I can lean on that has already done the vetting for me. Shop Honest on Amazon, Walmart, and Target. Target.

[Host 2]

I want to dive a little into mental health.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

What it looks like for you today

[Host 1]

has. I know you mentioned to me that

[Host 2]

you've been in therapy for like six, seven years.

[Host 1]

Has.

[Host 2]

Was that kind of the first time you were introduced to needing to mental health? I always say that I didn't. Wasn't introduced to mental health fully until I actually started struggling myself. Was that at point in time when you were kind of first introduced to mental health?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah, I started therapy in 2019, and that was when I moved to New York. And that transition was remarkably difficult for me. Living there was hard, and my brother had just gotten drafted to the NFL and I moved. That was all in the same, like, month. And so I had saved up money and moved out there and I couldn't. My credit was terrible. I didn't have anything saved. Saved. But what. I had to go and pay my bills there. And my circumstances were not the best. Where I was living was. It just wasn't great. And that was taking a toll on me. And I didn't know that. You know, I was like, it just was hard. And I was talking to my people, like, I mentioned all of my support, and my godmother was like, maybe you should. You know, I have a friend that has a practice in Brooklyn and maybe you should go and meet with her. And so I was like, you know, therapy is, like, taboo. And it's like, you don't. Who needs. No one needs therapy. Like that. Sort of. And I went and she. My therapist, she's remarkable. And that first meeting, I was like, this is great. Being able to talk about it. And someone who's not invested in me personally because of our relationship to have a wider view of my circumstances without being personally connected to it.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

So I think that was my introduction into serving my mental health in a way that makes sense and keeps me on top of things, like, keeps me actively choosing better for myself and those around me. So, yeah, I think that was up until that point. I knew of therapy. I knew people who did it, but I. It wasn't something that I was like, okay, I'm struggling. Let me go find help. I did that, but it wasn't. I didn't go find therapy. I went to my tribe and they were like, maybe you should go talk to this person.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And I'm glad I Did. I've been with. I've been with her since 2019.

[Host 2]

That's amazing. Yeah, I'm kind of the same. I didn't start therapy until 2020. 22. Yeah, 21. Until I was really struggling with my mental health. And I always tell people now that therapy isn't necessarily for when you're struggling. You need to do it before you are because it builds such a toolbox for you. And like, now, you know when something. Something comes up and there's like that moment of, like, the world's ending, it's like, oh, wait, no, let me just open this box and I know this, this, this, and I'll call my therapist and I'll talk to him about this. And like, I've worked through something like this and it just gives you that confidence to be able to. Because I always say, like, the mental health of it doesn't go away just

[Host 1]

because you've done the work.

[Host 2]

Like, life is still lifeing. She's always gonna life. She's always there. She doesn't stop.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yes.

[Host 1]

But we know how to handle her.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Absolutely. So well equipped. There are things, like you said in your toolbox that you are. Oh, this feels like. Let me take a beat. Yeah, let me take a second. My therapist loves to say, low hanging fruit. Take a second and. And think about this. Are you experiencing this? Do you need to respond to this thing happening right now? Is this something you can take a break on? Is it because, you know, life happens and you think, oh, God, the world is ending in this moment right now.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

And being able to approach it with your tools, it's great because you don't really. You don't think about it as it's happening.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. What is, what is your relationship like with social media?

[Host 1]

You're like, I'm gonna need a full

[Host 2]

other podcast for this one.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Social media, I. It's. My relationship is. It's on and off, meaning I have all of my notifications for every app turned off. I feel as though, you know, we are in a culture that requires your presence. Not. You don't have to. No one has to do anything. But in order to, you know, do things like this and in order to be in spaces that help you pay your bills and help you to be that, contribute to whatever thing that you have chosen to do, particularly in the sphere of entertainment, you need to have some sort of knowledge of how the culture is moving. And so I, you know, I scroll, I scroll, I scroll, I scroll all hours of the night and Then I have to put my phone down. I force myself to go to sleep. But sometimes it can get to be a lot, which is why I, you know, I talked to my therapist about things like this and I also have my, like I said my notifications turned on off because the volume of which that comes at you can be aggressive.

[Host 2]

Yeah, that's something I'm even feeling just in the tech, just texting right now, especially being pregnant because my mental capacity is so limited. Like, I'm working on like a fraction of my brain power that I normally am. And I'm like, I was thinking about this yesterday, like, because my mom is like, she is always like, just, you

[Host 1]

know, set 10 minutes.

[Host 2]

Which is great advice.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah.

[Host 2]

Set aside 10 minutes a day. Just like clear, you know, close enough notifications. Don't look at it through the day. It's great advice. The pregnant branding me goes, well, when

[Host 1]

you were pregnant, you didn't have a

[Host 2]

cell phone and very practical, great advice. But I've just, I'm really, I've been really thinking about it lately because I'm so, like, I probably went eight hours yesterday. Like, my phone was on the kitchen counter and I was like, I'm not even like touching you. Like, I don't. It's good. But it's also like, because I. There's obviously a lot of feelings and emotions going on inside of my brain,

[Host 1]

but I've just been thinking about that

[Host 2]

a lot in depth, more how much

[Host 1]

is required of us to respond to people. And then you don't want people to feel bad.

[Host 2]

And then there is the pressure when it comes to work of have you posted and you know, a week and a half, have you done this, like, making sure, like there is your presence online because of the career paths that we, we've chosen. It's very interesting.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah, it's. I go back and forth because I'm like, no, I want to post what I want to post when I want to post it. Don't tell me what I need to do and how I need to. Like, I go back and forth between this. Like, okay, am I, am I showing enough of myself? Am I showing too much of myself? Is this too personal? Like, things. The back and forth narrative I have is. It's a lot.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

But you know, I do enjoy the community that social media can bring. And also my brother and I are now in spaces where we are the ones that our family kind of depends on. So I not having my phone gives me anxiety because I'm like, you know, I need to help My mom do something, or, you know, my brother's kids need this, or, you know, so I'm always like, where's my phone? At any given moment? Which is crazy. But that's the. The dynamic we now have, which I'm grateful for. Super, super grateful for. But it doesn't allow me. I don't think I've ever not had my phone this close to me.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

You know.

[Host 2]

Yeah. No, it's understandable. Sure. Moving into this next chapter.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yeah.

[Host 1]

Of life for you. We just had the birthday.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yes.

[Host 2]

Moving on. It's the new chapters.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Yes.

[Host 2]

What do you. What do you want people to know about you? What are you, like, excited for people to learn about you that they might not know?

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oof. Oof. I think the biggest thing that I want people to take away from any interaction with me, whether that's on a tv, on a stage, on a podcast. I think what's really, really important for me is authenticity. That is, like, the hallmark of what I stand for. I want everyone to know that whatever the career path, whatever the circumstance, whatever the. Whatever's in front of you, showing up as the biggest version of yourself I think is so extremely important. And I grew up in a household that stressed that my mother. You. You needed to be you, that you didn't. She didn't want you to be anybody else. She would often, you know, have us do these sort of exercises in self worth and. And. And all these things. And I think that that has become very important to me in the work that I do in the spaces I show up in. Even as an entertainer, that's something I find to be extremely important. And I think that is what I want people to know and to. To. To find for themselves their own version of, like, power ment. Empowerment and, like, what it means to show up boldly in whatever space. And so even, like, you know, I think I'm not shifting. I'm never done dancing because that's like my.

[Host 2]

Yeah.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

But I. As I move more into acting, which is, like, really exciting for me right now, but even as I move more into that, I think I'm still like, be you. Be. Just show up as you in every space. And I think that's what I want people to know and hold close for themselves is the bravery it takes to be honest about who you are in any room.

[Host 2]

That's so sweet.

[Host 1]

Last question I have for you is, what are you most proud of yourself for? Oh.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Oh, okay. Wow. What I am most proud of myself for, I think I am most proud of how I show up to, for, to and for those that mean the world to me. I think that, like I said earlier, my tribe is my. They are my all. And I have a very loud love language for all of those people. And I think that any opportunity to show up for others in any space, and that doesn't have to be a financial thing. It doesn't have to. Showing up for people with heart and with passion and with kindness and generosity and all the things that make a great person, showing up for others with that only makes the universe give that back to you tenfold. And I think that how I am with those who care and love me, I fully believe, is why I have. I've been blessed with a lot of the opportunities that I've been blessed with because of my support and love and care to those around me, both close and far, you know, and I think that. That.

[Host 1]

That.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

That version of myself is something that I, you know, am quite proud of. I. There's an interview with Viola Davis. Viola Davis says, you know, EGOT won't be on my tombstone. And that struck me because I'm like, she's so decorated as. As an entertainer, as a performer, and she's like, yeah, I do have an egot, but when I am not here, that won't be on my tombstone. Mother, wife, et cetera, et cetera. And it hit me so deeply because I'm like that. It's that, like, yes, I have so many aspirations in this lifetime that I would love to accomplish, you know, awards and the like. But what's more important to me is my relationship to those that love me and the impact I have to those that I do not know. That I think is the. What keeps me actively choosing the things that I love and the people that I love and the spaces I want to occupy and the crafts I want to study. It's. It's really being able to change those with how bravely you show up for yourself and for others. I think that is why what I'm most proud about myself, I maybe went around to get to that answer, but.

[Host 2]

Yeah, no, that was the perfect answer. That was the perfect note to end on. I'm so happy that we got to spend this time together and that our lemon drops got to learn about you and hear your story. And I'm just so excited for everything that life has in store for you. I can't wait to watch you thrive and perform and all the fun things.

[Cameron N. Saunders]

Thank you for having me. This is. This is. This is great. I'm. Yeah, I'm. I. I'M I'm grateful to have been here and to have had this conversation and to see you with Baby. You know, I think it's. These are the type of interactions that I hold dear because it's really important. It's important. Important to. To hear stories, people's stories, to share them and to show up for them, even on podcasts, you know, like, it's. It's. It's very valuable to have these sort of interactions. So thank you for having me.

[Host 2]

Yeah. Please note that this episode may contain

[Host 1]

paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

[Host 2]

Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.