Mikayla Matthews: Finding Her Voice

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Squeeze – Episode Featuring Michaela Matthews: Finding Her Voice

Introduction

In this deeply moving episode of The Squeeze, host Taylor Lautner welcomes Michaela Matthews, a courageous individual who opens up about her tumultuous journey through childhood trauma, early motherhood, and the ongoing struggle with mental health. The episode aims to shed light on Michaela's path to healing, offering listeners both insight and hope.

Early Life and Family Background

Michaela begins by sharing her upbringing, revealing that she is one of seven children, a number that felt exceptionally large in California where her family originally lived. At the age of nine or ten, Michaela's parents divorced, prompting a move to Utah. This relocation split her time between California and Utah, where her mother's side of the family resided. Michaela reflects on the stark contrasts between growing up in California and Utah, noting, “One of seven. Yeah. So I'm one of seven. … seven's a lot for California.”

Childhood Trauma and Abuse

The conversation takes a harrowing turn as Michaela delves into the abuse she endured during her formative years. She recounts being sexually abused before moving to Utah and continuing the abuse under her mother's boyfriend, who moved into their home. Michaela shares, “I was being sexually abused, and I was confused,” highlighting the profound impact this trauma had on her understanding of relationships and self-worth. The lack of a safe space to disclose her suffering compounded her feelings of isolation and shame.

Adolescence and Becoming a Mother

At sixteen, Michaela became pregnant, a pivotal moment that further strained her already fragile relationship with her mother. She describes the revelation of her pregnancy as a "full circle moment," where instead of receiving protection, her mother suggested she move out: “I had to drop out of school. … I don't remember anything happy.” This experience intensified Michaela’s sense of abandonment and responsibility, forcing her into adulthood prematurely.

Marriage to Jace and Relationship Dynamics

Michaela meets Jace, her future husband, through mutual connections. Their relationship begins amidst Michaela's struggles, marked by her internalized trauma affecting their communication and intimacy. She explains, “He was someone that really wanted to work through things and, like, talk to me. And then I would hone into my dad, and I had emotionally shut off.” Despite these challenges, Jace remains a pillar of support, fostering an environment where Michaela begins to heal.

Struggles with Mental Health and Chronic Illness

The episode further explores Michaela’s battle with chronic illness, including severe skin conditions exacerbated by steroid withdrawal. This physical ailment mirrored her mental health struggles, leading to intense emotional distress. Michaela shares, “My body was like screaming at me internally. … I couldn't pick my kids up from school. I couldn't do little tasks.” These health issues forced Michaela to confront the deep-seated trauma that had been suppressed for years.

Healing Journey and Therapy

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on Michaela’s healing journey through therapy. Initially hesitant and overwhelmed by emotions, Michaela gradually learns to acknowledge and address her trauma. She notes, “I have to talk about it,” emphasizing the importance of confronting painful memories to facilitate healing. Michaela also discusses the impact of therapy on her relationship with Jace, highlighting the challenges and growth that come with open communication.

Reflections and Personal Growth

Towards the end of the episode, Michaela reflects on her progress, expressing pride in her ability to empathize with her mother despite past abuses. She states, “I feel like I'm becoming the person that I needed back then when I was 7 or 8 years old.” This self-acceptance and empowerment mark a significant milestone in her journey, illustrating the transformative power of resilience and support.

Notable Quotes

• Michaela on her traumatic childhood:
  “I was being sexually abused, and I was confused.” ([20:46])

• Michaela discussing her relationship with Jace:
  “He was someone that really wanted to work through things and, like, talk to me. And then I would hone into my dad, and I had emotionally shut off.” ([32:42])

• Michaela on her healing journey:
  “I have to talk about it.” ([46:27])

• Michaela reflecting on personal growth:
  “I feel like I'm becoming the person that I needed back then when I was 7 or 8 years old.” ([77:07])

Conclusion

This episode of The Squeeze offers a raw and honest portrayal of Michaela Matthews' struggles and triumphs. Through her story, listeners gain a deeper understanding of the profound effects of childhood trauma, the complexities of early motherhood, and the arduous yet rewarding path to self-acceptance and healing. Michaela's courage in sharing her experiences serves as a beacon of hope for others grappling with similar challenges, reinforcing the podcast's mission to foster a community of support and understanding around mental wellness.

Transcript

[Michaela]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Tay]

You've never opened up like this before.

[Michaela]

I just associated it with the shame. I've actually blocked out a lot of my childhood, but I don't remember a lot of, like, happy memories. My mom's boyfriend came in the picture. We were just, like, really uncomfortable around him. I don't know if he was touchy to everyone. He was definitely touchy to, like, me. Yeah, like, I didn't quite get it. And I was still pretty young. My mom wanted to get married, and he was going to move into our house. At this point, she hadn't, like, known anything. Basically. I never had that safe place or felt comfortable telling her things. She kind of, like, worked late and early, and so she would go to the back room and take a nap or whatever, and I would be left alone with him. This thing that's ingrained to me of like, well, no one's going to believe me. I finally had this courage to go to my mom and say, hey, this has been happening to me. Instead of her doing her role as a mom and protect me in that moment, it was while you're lying, you could move out. I had to drop out of school. My chronic illness got so bad, my body was, like, almost shutting down. Like, I had so many infections, so many different things going on. I just choose not to because it's not comfortable, it's painful. The person that I needed back then, I feel like that's who I'm becoming now.

[Tay]

Hello, Lemon Drops. Happy Wednesday. If you're new here. Hello, my name is Tay. Thank you so much for joining us this week. This week's guest, I have Michaela on, and we definitely dove into some pretty heavy topics. I just kind of wanted to jump on here and say that the content of this episode can be triggering for some, and I would encourage you to check the description down below if after this episode you need additional resources. I just want to commend Michaela for the strength and the vulnerability that she shared with me during this episode. I feel so honored that she felt safe enough to do this with me, and I cannot wait for you guys to hear her story. And without further ado, here's the episode. Michaela, welcome to the Squeeze.

[Michaela]

Thank you.

[Tay]

I guess. Welcome to back.

[Michaela]

I know. I'm like, I never left.

[Jace]

I know.

[Michaela]

You just stayed here in this exact chair. I already have my tik tok ready.

[Tay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michaela]

It's a full circle moment.

[Tay]

That is. I love that. Well, last time you were here, we didn't play this game. But we have this little jar.

[Michaela]

I love it.

[Tay]

It's a game called Citrus Got Real. It's just like a fun little game that we do. If you want to pull out a little piece of paper.

[Michaela]

Just go from the top.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Okay. What's a fashion trend you secretly or not so secretly love? Okay. I'm saying this now because I'm pregnant and the only thing I can wear is the low rise jeans. Okay. But before being pregnant, I was like, I hated low rise jeans.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But now I'm like, it's the only thing that fits me. I can't do high rise, so I always do low rise. So the low rise jeans, that's good.

[Tay]

I've honestly, that might be mine because I think low rise jeans look better on me.

[Michaela]

Yes. I think it's my body type too because I do have a longer torso, so I think it is more flattering. But again, it's the self conscious in me that's like, I can't wear low rise jeans.

[Tay]

I know.

[Michaela]

But now I'm embracing it with the bump out, so.

[Tay]

No, it's good. I'm trying to. Mine is like, I feel like I have really long arms. So like when I. When I have high waisted jeans on, I just feel like my arms look.

[Michaela]

Like so long and I'm like, this needs to needs. It's all about the proportions. What are your.

[Tay]

I'm gonna flip it and say what is like a trend that you don't want to come back or that you're not liking the capris?

[Michaela]

I'm not loving the capris.

[Tay]

Those are coming back.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Tay]

I never know these things I've seen.

[Michaela]

Coming back and I'm like, not a fan.

[Tay]

Mine is the thin eyebrows.

[Michaela]

The thin eyebrow. Wait, I have seen that coming back.

[Tay]

Really thin.

[Michaela]

Yes. Like there was bleached eyebrows for a little bit and then the thin eyebrows. No, I'm a. I like fluffy eyebrows.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

No, I don't. I feel like if I had thin eyebrows, that would be of major concern. But. Okay. So I'm really excited to just like sit and chat.

[Michaela]

I'm like, I'm excited. I'm nervous.

[Tay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michaela]

Things.

[Tay]

No, but you were like the first person from Mom Talk that I followed.

[Michaela]

Really?

[Tay]

Yeah. So this is like, this is fun just because I've followed you for a while and we've gotten to like become friends and I'm excited and honored really, just to like be able to sit down and hear your story. And I feel like our conversation today is really going to Help a lot of women feel heard and understood and validated. I have tissues for us if we need them.

[Michaela]

Perfect. We probably will.

[Tay]

But I guess I kind of want to start just, like, from the way beginning. Are you originally from Utah?

[Michaela]

I actually grew up in California.

[Tay]

Okay.

[Michaela]

In Granada Hills.

[Tay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michaela]

So I lived in Granada Hills till I think I was, like, 9 or 10 when my parents got divorced, and then we moved to Utah.

[Tay]

Okay.

[Michaela]

But we had. My mom's parents lived in Utah. So we would kind of go back and forth in those nine years of, like, we'd go for Christmas and do, like, skiing lessons in Utah. We'd go for summer, do our, like, swim lessons in Utah. So, like, every. We would, like, switch off back and forth just during the seasons. But, yeah, I grew up, went to school in California.

[Tay]

Oh, my gosh.

[Michaela]

Which is crazy. A lot of people don't know that.

[Tay]

How many did I hear before? You're one of seven or how many?

[Michaela]

One of seven. Yeah. So I'm one of seven. And I always tell people, because in California, seven's a lot for California. Like, even I grew up Mormon in California, and. And two was, like, an average number even in the Mormon Church, where usually people that are Mormon have more kids.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But then when we moved to Utah, I was like, oh, seven's, like, actually pretty average or, like, below average. Because then I met my husband, and he has 14 or 13 siblings. 14, including him. So I'm like, I cannot imagine. And usually people in California or Utah, I feel like they average, like, five to eight kids. Like, that's, like, an average number of kids in Utah, which is crazy.

[Tay]

That is, like, wild.

[Michaela]

It's insane to me.

[Tay]

Where are you in the.

[Michaela]

I'm the second to youngest, so I have a younger brother just right under me.

[Tay]

Okay.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

What was. What was your childhood like growing up here?

[Michaela]

Like, it depends. I feel like I've actually blocked out a lot of my childhood. Like, I remember, like, I remember a lot of the trauma from growing up and, like, a lot of the bad things that I took from it, but I don't remember a lot of, like, happy memories. So I remember just, like, a lot of yelling. I remember a lot of, like, fighting. I remember, like, holidays, because those were, like, the times that we were happy were, like, Christmas, Easter, which I feel like I've taken into my adult years now, where I'm like, these are, like, my favorite. It's, like, such a special time for me because growing up, I was like, that was, like, the only happy memories I Can remember, but, yeah, it was a lot. I feel like I look differently on it now, especially going through everything I've been through and talking about it. Yeah. I'm, like, still at a loss for words for that one.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

Do you. Was like, the anger in the home, was that before, like, with your. When your parents were still together? Was that once they divorced?

[Michaela]

Yeah. So they were like, I. I never saw really, like, a healthy relationship between my parents. They were always. It was really my mom. Like, I kind of have both of those tendencies in me. I have my mom who was, like, emotionally angry. Like, she was just very reactive emotionally. And my dad would emotionally shut off. And so I have both sides of that. Like, if I. I always say, like, I'm not able to show a lot of my emotions, except for when it would come to anger, I'd be like, oh, I know how to reciprocate this, because that's what I saw growing up. But also, if anyone ever got angry at me or if anyone was sad or any, like, any other emotion, it would make me emotionally shut off because I didn't know how to, like, respond or take in that.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Just because that's what I saw growing up. Like, my mom would yell at my dad. She would yell at us. She would call us names. And so. Because again, I feel like she wasn't able to regulate her emotions either. So that was kind of, like, taken out on whoever was around.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah. That's what I feel like I've been realizing a lot now. Growing up was just, like, the effects of that. And, like, obviously meeting Jace now. Cause he's very. He grew up in a family that was very emotional. They would cry. Like, I remember meeting his family, and I was so uncomfortable because they'd be like, you're so beautiful. Like, we love you so much. We've been praying about you. And they would just cry. And I'd be like. I'd leave the conversation and go to Jason, be like, that was awkward, right? He's like, what do you mean? Like, that was so sweet. And I was like, I guess, like, oh, my God. What am I supposed to say? Like, so awkward. Cause I just didn't know how to. I never saw it growing up. Like, we never got praise or any of that, so I never knew how to, like, internalize it. Or I'm like, I don't know what to do with this, so I'm gonna push it back on you, or I'm just gonna emotionally shut down.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

So was there something that would, like, trigger your mom to yell at you or was it just kind of like she was just firing. Do you feel like she picked on other kids more than others or.

[Michaela]

I think a lot of it comes from. Again, I, I'm thinking with my now mindset because I've done a lot of internalizing and like, if I yell at my kids, it's because usually I'm overstimulated or usually it really is just like an overstimulation. Like, and I know, like, I can finally connect to why my mom felt that anger, but I don't express it on my kids. Like, I don't make it their problem.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Where she used it kind of as an excuse of like, oh, well, you know, my parents were like this growing up, so that's just how I'm going to be.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Where. Which I love in this generation now is that we're taking that and being like, oh, this is what I took from my parents. But I, I don't want to be this where I feel like our parents generation is kind of like, well, tough luck. Like, this is what I grew up with and this is how I am. Like, it's more of an excuse for them where for me, I feel like, I take it as like a driving factor of I don't want my kids to grow up in this environment.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But yeah, I think it was just like she, the stress and the over stimulation. I don't think she was taught those tools growing up to regulate her emotions and, you know, voice them appropriately, obviously. So, yeah, I think I'm able to think back with a lot more empathy towards her than anger.

[Jace]

Wow.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

That says a lot.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

Where you're at.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

When your parents got divorced, happy about it. What were your thoughts on it?

[Michaela]

I don't, I don't really remember them telling us. Like, again, like, we never saw, like they were always fighting. Like we knew they weren't happy.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But again that's all we knew. And I, I, I have like very vivid, vivid memories of like one time when they were in the kitchen. We were all like, we've never seen him kiss. Like, we never saw him be physical, hug, kiss or anything. And we were like forcing them to kiss and they just, you know, just had a little peck in the kitchen. And I like have a very vivid memory of it. And then a very vivid memory of when they, when they were separating. I remember, I think we were in like Palm Desert or something and we had to. My mom was basically telling us, like, you have to tell your dad that you want to Move to Utah, basically, like, and leave him, basically. Which we didn't understand at that time. So I think thinking back now, I was a lot. I'm a lot more sad, like, thinking out back, especially because his health has been declining. And I'm like, he didn't have people there to help him or talk to or anything. I think that makes me sad. But again, I was like 8, 9, 10 years old, so I don't really remember what it was like back then.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

So when you go to Utah, that was. Your mom was just trying to take you guys away from him and move there.

[Michaela]

Yeah. So, I mean, again, I don't know what exactly what her intentions were, moving to Utah. I know, like, her family was there and, like, we had been there. So. Yeah, he stayed in California and then we moved to Utah. And I remember. I feel like it's, like, so vague to me, but I remember, like, we would in, like, the court ordered, obviously, like, the younger kids had to, like, go back to California for, like, a certain amount of time and then come back to Utah. And I remember doing that a couple times. Yeah. And, like, he came to Utah like, a couple of times. But, like, as his health got worse, he obviously couldn't travel and visit. And then, I mean, I got pregnant pretty young too, so I wasn't able to, like, travel up to California and visit him a lot either.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

Is he still alive?

[Michaela]

He has. He's just in the last, like, I want to say, like, five or six years, he's had, like, a bunch of health issues. We lived in a house that was, like, really toxic. Like, had mold and, like, all sorts of, like, horrible things and so toxic in both ways. No, it was toxic in a lot of ways. Yeah. Physically and emotionally toxic. So. Yeah. Which is interesting too, because, like, now with all my health stuff I've kind of put together, I was just gonna ask that. When I lived in California, like, my skin was really. I had eczema growing up, and it kind of went away after I moved from California. And so, like, he's had so many health issues with. Every time we'd visit him, he'd be coughing. Like, he had to take, like, NyQuil and stuff to go to sleep because he would cough. He started in the last five or six years. Like I was saying, he got. He was diagnosed with, like, on, like, early onset Parkinson's and arthritis and all sorts of. Yeah. Stuff. So he's living with my sisters right now, just taking. Taking care of him.

[Tay]

Okay.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

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[Michaela]

Like, I literally don't remember. I feel like I, I think that's like a common thing that I'm like finally uncovering in therapy.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because your brain really does kind of shut off for sure. A lot of things that it obviously is wants you to shut off.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Like I remember going to elementary school. I think I was in. I must have been in fourth grade.

[Jace]

Okay.

[Michaela]

So I think is that Eight or nine. Nine, ten.

[Tay]

You probably know that better than I do.

[Michaela]

I have no idea. Yeah. So I was in, like, fourth grade, or I moved in halfway through fourth grade.

[Jace]

Okay.

[Michaela]

And so it was kind of like I was the new kid.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

All my friends that I met around the neighborhood were, like, a year or two older, so I was never, like, in their class.

[Jace]

Okay.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Fourth grade. I'm like. I don't even know where everything went wrong in Utah. I feel like my mom started dating a guy pretty shortly after we moved to Utah. I can't remember exactly. I remember being shortly after. And then he lived kind of down the street. And so she would. She would. She worked from home. She did, like, medical records, so she would hop on calls and, like, type out all the medical records. And. And so she would just take her computer down to his house, and that's where she would, like, work. And so we never really saw her a lot in the house. So. Yeah, I feel like we did a lot of, like, growing up on our own, basically.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And we would still get, like, allowances for my dad, and so we would use our money to do that. Whatever allowance we got, we would go spend it doing whatever we wanted. But, yeah, I feel like there wasn't. I don't know. I feel like she wasn't around a lot.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Growing up.

[Tay]

That's so interesting.

[Michaela]

Just in Utah.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

So when did things start to take a turn?

[Michaela]

I don't know exactly. Like, the age. I feel like it's hard to. I want to, like, be able to, like, pinpoint an age of where it all started.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because I did open up about being sexually abused, and that happened before we moved to. To Utah as well, by somebody. And so again, I was like. I don't know what age I was anywhere from, like, I'm guessing 6, 7, 8 before moving to Utah. And then I think it continued, like, a little bit after we moved. And then obviously, my. My mom's boyfriend came in the picture, and we were just, like, really uncomfortable around him, too, because it was shortly after she had moved away from my dad, and that's all we ever saw.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then, of course, he was very, like, touchy. And I don't know if he was touchy to everyone. He was definitely touchy to, like, me. And then also, for me now thinking back, I was like, I was already being sexually abused before, and so I didn't. I didn't quite get it, and I was still pretty young, and I think when I was, like, probably 12, 11 or 12 I think is when I, like, started to notice a little bit more that it wasn't okay.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I still hadn't, like, told anybody about it. And I think that's kind of like, what started a little bit of that confusion sexually for me too, which I noticed, obviously, now with my mindset, thinking back.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I went to a sexual trauma therapist that was telling me about, like, the shame you get growing up around sex in general. I think it's very common just in a lot of households, but also just in, like, Mormon culture. Like, you don't talk about sex. I feel like our parents generation doesn't talk about sex. Like, it's kind of. You don't talk about this. Out of sight, out of mind. And so I would think back to times where, when I did live in California and I was doing things. Like, when you're younger, you start doing things, you notice things, feel good. And I would always get really. My mom would always yell at me for doing things. But also at that time, I was like, I was being sexually abused, and I was confused. And I think that's why I started doing those things. And I just associated it with the shame because it was like, this isn't okay. Don't do. Don't do this. And that's something I feel like really carried over into my marriage, which is what I've noticed recently has been, like, one of the hardest parts of our marriage. Because you don't realize it's happening because it's.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Again, you're so young, you're not processing it, and then you kind of are raised up with this. Or at least I was raised up with my circumstance of, this isn't for me. It's for somebody else's pleasure.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So. Yeah. So having having my mom's boyfriend in the picture and having that confusion, and I. I can't remember when it was that he. Because he lived at his own house. And then my mom wanted to get married, and he was gonna move into our house. He ended up moving, like, right next door from the house down the street. He. The house next door sold, and he moved into that house right next door. And then I think he, like, proposed and. And got married to my mom. I think they. She got married without telling us because I remember her coming to tell my sister and I that she was gonna get married to him. And I think I must have been, like, 14, and he. She was 16. And at this point, she hadn't, like, known anything. She used to, like, work at his house. And so I would be There, and she would. She kind of, like, worked late and early, and so she would go to the back room and take a nap or whatever, and I would be left alone with him. So that's when I think, like, a lot of this stuff happened. Or, like, we would come over to ride his four wheelers, and he'd be like, oh, if you want to try the four wheeler, you have to, like, do this first for me or something. And so, like, she never saw any of that, and I never told her. And again, she wasn't. I actually heard something really interesting about sexual trauma because it was like, Mel Robbins was talking to someone about, like, her past sexual abuse, and he was like, well, what was your. Your feeling about it? And like, what. What if this happened to your daughter and she didn't tell you? Like, what would you say to her? And she's like, well, clearly, I think she would not feel comfortable telling me, or she doesn't feel like I'm a safe place to tell that. And he's like, well, that's. That isn't where your trauma started. Then it sounds like you had trauma before that. And so I feel like I never had that safe place to tell my mom anything. She just wasn't that person for me.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

For my whole life, basically, I never had that safe place or felt comfortable telling her things.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so when all these things were happening, it was, okay, well, I don't have someone to tell that I feel comfortable telling that would take that information and do something good with it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And also, again, you are manipulated and you're groomed by people that say, oh, this is a fun game, or we're doing this to. To practice for boys in the future, or don't tell your mom or don't do this. And so you're raised up with that mindset, because I can think back and be like, oh, why didn't I tell someone? Or why didn't I do this? And you're like, well, because I didn't know any better. And the people in my life that were supposed to teach me didn't. Didn't do that and didn't have that responsibility. Yeah. So that's kind of when it all started. My sister. So when my mom was telling us, I. I had already distanced myself because, again, I was getting a little bit older, and I was like, okay, yeah, this isn't okay. And so she. I remember her sitting us down saying, like, we're gonna get married or we're gonna whatever, and he's gonna move in and I remember my sister saying, okay, well, if he moves in, then. If he moves in, then I'm leaving. I'm not staying here. And she's like, well, then you better start packing. And at this point, she was, you know, 16 years old.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And she had that tendency a lot to, like I said, with, like, the name calling, where she'd be like, you guys are so lazy. You're so this. And so that was kind of, like, ingrained in our memory. And also, like, when it came to her and her boyfriend, it was like, he would come over, too and be like, he would come in these, like, rage fits where he's cleaning the dishes, and he's like, the kids are so lazy. They don't care about you. Like, he's, like, yelling all this stuff and we're all hearing it and so on. Her, like, skewed mindset. I think it validated that for her.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And it almost made us the victim and him, like, the savior.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

You know, So I think he, like, validated that for her. And so when we were so upset of, like, we don't want you to marry him, she had the mindset of, well, my kids don't want me to be happy. Like, it was like we were the. We were the villains, and she was the victim of that situation, which is, again, it's like, I don't think back in anger. I think back more in, like, pity and sadness for her and us, because I think, again, she didn't have those skills and she didn't want to change it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

What made your sister prompt saying, then, I'm living with she being abused to her. Did she know?

[Michaela]

I don't think so. No. I don't think she was. She was older than me. So again, I think I was just kind of, like, the right target for him.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah. And she was always, like, kind of hostile towards him, too, in, like, the beginning, because she still had that thing of, like, oh, you just divorced her dad and you're dating this new guy. Or me, I feel like I was just younger and a little more naive.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But I think, yeah, she had that, like, hatred for him already. And she was actually. So try not to, like, jump all over the place.

[Tay]

You're good.

[Michaela]

Yeah. So she was. She was like, well, if he moves in, like, I'm moving out, like, yeah. And instead of her being like, yeah, I should think this through, clearly, my kids aren't comfortable. It was a selfish moment of, oh, well, this is what I'm choosing. You can stay or not. And we were still so young. And then two years later is when, like, I talk about it briefly, or I think I talk about it briefly on the show about Halloween. The. The conversation I had with my siblings at Halloween time on the show. And I think that that was the first time I had ever talked to my siblings about it or opened up. Because what happened 2015, when I was 15 years old, this is after he had moved into the house, and there was, like, a. An incident that happened when he was living there. And, like, we had already not felt comfortable. Anytime he was in the house, we wouldn't want to be in the house, obviously, just like that. We would just feel really uncomfortable. Me specifically. And something happened on Halloween of 2015, and that was, like, my final straw, where I was like, okay, I'm gonna tell someone about this. And, like, what happened. I don't. I don't think I ever even told them exactly what he had been doing for, like, the years before, But I just told him about what happened at Halloween. And I told my sister, who was with me when my mom told us that he was moving in, and she kind of, like, had that anger for me. I didn't have that anger. Like, I feel like I never had it, and I still don't. But she kind of had that anger and that driving force to, like, take me out of the house, too. And so I was like, I'm not living here anymore. I'm leaving. And I honestly can't remember exactly how she reacted or, like, what she said, but she was basically like, you're lying. Like, that's not true. That didn't happen. How could this happen? And so that was, like, kind of a. Another, like, traumatic moment where it was like, I finally had this courage to go to my mom and say, hey, this has been happening to me. And instead of her, like, doing her role as a mom and doing what she was supposed to do and protect me, in that moment, it was, while you're lying, you can move out. And I think that was, like, the last time. Not the last time I ever talked to her, but I had moved out, down to my friend's house, and my sister moved out with me and lived there, and my little brother was still staying at. Living at the house. So, yeah, that was when I was 15. It was, like, just at the end of being 15, almost 16. So I feel like that's a lot. That's another, like, time period in my life that I feel like I blocked out, like, a lot of it. Like, it was like another part of my Brain shut off.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And because again, you finally have this courage to say, okay, I'm gonna bring this up to someone that you feel like should protect you. And they don't in that moment or they don't validate it, then it's like, okay, well, now I really don't have a safe place in this. And also, I think it was another, like, I still haven't fully opened up to all the details of my sexual abuse, even to like my husband, which he's very patient with me about.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But again, it's just this thing that's ingrained to me of like, well, no one's gonna believe me or. I don't know. Like I. I've been learning a lot about it in therapy, but yeah, it's like I. I physically can't remember a lot of it. And also I just. I just choose not to because it's not comfortable, it's painful. So. Yeah, that was like the Halloween that the. That I was talking to my siblings about on Halloween.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

It was like a literal full circle moment.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

How many Years later? Like 10 years later.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So, yeah, we just never. Because again, they were grown up with those same things of we don't talk about our feelings. They didn't really ask questions.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I think I wouldn't be open to talking about those questions. I think it was really like my chronic illness.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

In the last like three years that really like shifted my mindset.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

On like all of that and opening up because again, it was. I think my body was truly like screaming at me internally. And then it just started coming to the surface and so I was like, I have to talk about it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I did like a lot of research about like the mind body connection too. And yeah. Like meeting, I think from when I met Jace too is because, I mean, I got pregnant at 16, so that was kind of another traumatic. It was just like time and time after.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But yeah, like, getting pregnant 16 was another traumatic experience in itself. And I had just moved out of my house. I think I got pregnant literally a year, almost a year exactly after I moved out of my house at 15. So, yeah, it was like I hadn't even processed that. And then I'm jumping into now being a mom and raising a kid at 16, 17. And I think, I think all that was traumatizing. But also it was so helpful having like, being with someone like Jace because again, he's been like, so patient with me and he like, truly wants me to be the best, like, version of myself. I feel like. And I really think he is that safe place for me, finally, that I didn't have.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So. Yeah. And I. My brain's, like, all over the place now, and, like, once it comes out, it comes out in, like, all different waves. But, yeah, like, it's not. Obviously. It was so hard. Like, I had only known him for, like, a month.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Before I got pregnant. And so I'm like, I didn't even know this guy. I had. I mean, I was living. At this point, I was living at my sister's house now. We moved out of our friend's house to my. To, like, a house that my sisters lived in with my brother, and I had to drop out of school, and I was like, I'm pregnant. And I didn't really tell any of my friends. I kind of just like, dropped off the face of the earth.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Just trying to, like, process everything.

[Tay]

Your mom has no idea, like, any of this is going on, or she.

[Michaela]

That's another very vivid memory. When I found. When I found out I was pregnant was actually with my mom, because I was. I was in the. I was in a sauna at the gym for, like, 45 minutes. I used to go in the sauna all the time, and it was, like, 45 minutes. I had a trash bag on. I walk out of the sauna. Like, I stand up, and I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so dizzy. But I just kept walking. And then I literally passed down. Just blacked out. And I woke up, I had this, like, huge goose egg on my head because I had, like, fallen into the stall door at the gym. Oh, wow. And so I went to. I was sleeping at my friend's house, and her mom was a nurse and was, like, calling my mom and was like, you should take your kids. You know, your daughter has this thing. She might have a concussion. So my mom picked me up and took me to the emergency room, and they ended up doing, like, blood testing because I had. I think I had passed out, like, once before.

[Tay]

Okay.

[Michaela]

I was like, probably because I was pregnant. I didn't know it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I had passed out once before. And so they thought that something was wrong with, like, my heart or something. And they ask all the questions before. They're like, are you sexually active? Are you this. And I was like, no, I'm not sexually active. Like, yeah, my mom was there, too. I'm like, clearly, I wasn't comfortable with my mom. I was like, no, I'm not sexually active. And then, like, two hours later, they come Back, and they're like, so everything with your EKG came back normal, but we told, like, you're two weeks pregnant from your blood test, basically. And I remember my mom just, like, smacking me or something. I can't remember what she did. And then he, like, walked out of the room. He just dropped that bomb. And he was like, casey. And then she was like, what are you gonna do? And I think at this point, I kind of, like, knew that I was pregnant. I was already having weird symptoms. I was only, like, two weeks. But also, when you're 16, it's, like, such a sweat, like, switch for your body.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

She's like, what are you gonna do? And immediately I was like, well, I'm gonna keep it. Like, I feel like in my mind, I never thought of any other options. I was just like, I'm gonna keep him. And so. And then I had to tell Jace. And that was also Jace's, like, immediate reaction was just, obviously, whatever you want to do, I'm here. And we just made that work. But, yeah, I just. I think that was kind of the. It was kind of like the turning point for mine and my mom's relationship. Kind of, like, force, which even though we still never even talked about it, so it was still, like, pushed under the rug. Still haven't talked about it to this day. It was just like, I was 16 years old. I was pregnant. I didn't tell any of my siblings. Only Jace knew. None of my friends knew. So I was just so isolated and alone. And my mom was one of the only people that knew, and she actually told my older sister, but they were, like, the only two people out of my family that knew. And at this point, I had barely. Again, I barely knew Jace.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So although I wasn't comfortable around her, it was just, like, more comfortable than, I mean, with Jace at that point.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so she would, you know, come to doctor's appointments and do things, which, again, I think my brain just kind of, like, shut off all those emotions.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because, yes. Being around her was, like, obviously very triggering.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But I also didn't have a choice because I was 16, and I didn't know what I was gonna do.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I didn't know what to do. And so she was kind of just like that person that was there during that time for. Yeah. Until I had him.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

At 17, we talk a lot about.

[Tay]

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[Michaela]

Did you tell her about that? No, I hadn't. I actually haven't. That's what I was saying. I haven't even told anyone about that because I've had There was, like, three different people. And so I think it was, like, with the first one, again, like, when I brought it up to her, I was like, I just didn't see a point of bringing up anything else because I was like, clearly, she's not.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Believing me.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And this isn't a place to do it. And so I think, again, I really internalized all of that hurt and abuse. And I still haven't, like, opened up to Jace. I've opened up to him more about things, but not, like, actual acts and actual things that were happening. And that's what's been. I've had to learn with, like, the therapy I've been doing a little bit of, like, emdr and because it became, like, sex became very triggering later. Like, again, like, when we first met, I barely knew him. And so our first issue that we ever had was communication, because he was someone that really wanted to work through things and, like, talk to me. And then I would. I would hone into my dad, and I had emotionally shut off because it was, like, so much being thrown at me that I was like, I don't know what to do with this. I'm going to shut off. And so then that made him angry and, like, want to talk more. And so that was, like, a really hard dynamic for a while. And then after having kids, it was. I say there was, like, a good period of our sex life where I was, like, kind of experiencing things for myself.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Whereas before, I didn't think of it like that. And I think because he was that safe place and was patient and, like, great. That I was like, okay, this is for me. And I can figure out some things that I like.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But then after having kids, I think it was with my second. Like, during my second pregnancy, I was probably, like, 19, 20.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

It was like, that's when I started noticing it becoming an issue because, of course, it wasn't addressed.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And with, like, the triggers, I didn't realize, oh, these are triggers. And even, like, simple things. Like, I feel like it's so common for people in marriages to, like, not want to have sex and be like, well, yeah, let's just do it. They want it. Like, you're trying to, like, meet each other's needs.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But I just had that background of all that sexual abuse that he wasn't fully aware of either, that it started becoming very triggering where I was like, I don't want to be doing this, but I'm going to do it. And then also, you have the hormones of being pregnant. And.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Not being confident, just also weighing on your mind. And so I was like, well, let's just. Just. I was like, all right, I'm just gonna do it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I think that was kind of like another turning point of when it started becoming like those triggers started trickling in.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And subconsciously I was resenting him and making him the abuser.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Where it wasn't the case. And so. Yeah. Which is what I realized really recently.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Going through all the. The sexual abuse therapy that I've been doing, because when it's happening, it's. It's really hard to, like, check in with yourself and, like, recognize it. I think that's the first step is really recognizing why it's happening.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Which I've. I've learned a lot through therapy is, oh, this is why it's happening. And I'm able to pinpoint back to certain times or why it's triggering.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But I think. I think that's the easier part of it. I think the hardest part is then changing or, like, redirecting the emotion. That's what I've struggled with the most, is just taking it and being like, yes, this is happening, and I don't want it to happen, but yet I'm still letting it happen. Like, it's. It's really hard to. To change that when you. When you grow up. So that's been, like, my biggest struggle is taking those triggers and turning into a positive experience for myself for redirecting it in my brain.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Especially when, I mean, we have, like, three kids now. It's hard to kind of just sit one on one and talk to him without, you know, a kid coming in and then another kid coming in and really just, like, being present with each other. But he has had to be, like, really patient with me, especially in the last, like, three years, because, again, it. Sex became very triggering the last, like, six years.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But the last, like, three years with all my health stuff was, like, really, really heightened it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

And I feel like there's also, like, this time period of. Once you start, like, the healing journey of, like, therapy and actually talking through this stuff, and almost like, it gets worse before it gets better because you're, like, having to relive this stuff, and it just makes things even more triggering than I think.

[Michaela]

Yeah. Like, I think in season two. I think season two is the first time I ever, like, went to therapy and kind of, like, deep dove into, like, the actual sex, sexual abuse part of things.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And even now, like, I'm so much Better about feeling my emotions and, like, being able to process them and regulate them. Where in season two, like, I'm talking to therapist. My hands are, like, shaking. Like, it's like an emotional release. Like, you have that trauma response.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Being released. And I. I mean, I still get that because it's still a very triggering topic. And anytime it's brought up, like, obviously I'm. I have all those emotions still running through me. But, yeah, season two, it was, like, really, like, I'm physically very uncomfortable doing it. But I think that's like, my biggest advice to people, though, is you're not going to see any change if you're not putting yourself in those situations, because that's when your body is. I think, like, internally, my body got the most change. And outwardly, like, with my skin stuff, I've seen the most change with processing it and just, like, honestly just talking about it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Which is such, like, a small. I mean, it's a small step, but it's a huge step just to even talk about it. So. Yeah, I feel like I've become a lot better.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But I mean, it's still. It's. It was really hard to even get me to therapy.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because. Yeah, it's. Yeah, it's uncomfortable. It's a hard thing to do.

[Tay]

For sure. When did. When did you first tell Jace about the abuse?

[Michaela]

I think. I think I told him about it a couple years ago. Well, he. He already kind of knew the situation with, like, my mom's boyfriend because he was friends with my sister and.

[Tay]

So is that how you guys met?

[Michaela]

Yeah, so we met through my sister and his roommate that worked together.

[Tay]

Okay.

[Michaela]

And so that's how I met him. And so he had kind of known, like, I'm sure he was asking, like, why. I. I think my sister probably told him, like, I'm guessing because he did know, like, a little bit of why I wasn't living.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

With my mom or, like, what happened there.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I had to tell him, like, a little bit about it. And I think I opened up about what was happening when I was, like, seven, younger probably like six years ago, like, right after, like, when it started getting really more triggering.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I had to, like, kind of tell him because it would get so frustrating. And I feel like a lot of that anger was being put on him and he felt a lot of rejection of, like, I'm not attractive, like, my wife doesn't want to sleep with me. And I feel like that made me feel so guilty.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because it's actually really Interesting, because that's something I've learned recently, too, is, like, the guilt that we get from, like, subconsciously when we grow up. So, like, when you're. When I was raised with my mom who was like, oh, you guys are this. You're this, you're this. And she was, like, outwardly saying all this stuff to us, it was kind of, like, ingrained into. Into us, just like, the, I'm not doing enough or it's my fault or this.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so he. He would come to me with these issues, and instead of me, like, validating them or, like, getting his side of it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

I would just subconsciously have that guilt set in of, oh, it's because I'm not doing enough. Instead of, oh, it's because you need this. Yeah, it was, oh, it's my fault. And so then I would react. Being defensive or being whatever.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Taking that. Redirecting that anger back on him. And. Yeah. I think I just opened up to him and it helped him really understand.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Like, oh. Or at least understand a little bit more. And I think that's happened, like, the last six years. Like, there's new information that I'll put in to really help it. Click. For him.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because for him, it's just really helpless.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

He feels helpless that he can't do anything. And he still obviously has his emotions of being insecure.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And angry and this. And sometimes he does. Like, he has to be very selfless and internalize it a little bit to help me out, because he's. Yeah. He. He doesn't have. He's like, I don't have as much trauma, and I don't have as much this. And so he's very, like, gentle with me because he knows the situation. Yeah. And, like, he's been great with, like, parenting stuff, too. That's the whole. It's, like, so many different things that you don't realize you get from your childhood that really shapes you to who you are.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Until it starts trickling in in places that you don't want it to.

[Jace]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tay]

I. I had something recently with Taylor, and we were. We were at my. We were with my parents. And I forget what was going on, but it was like, they're. They're not really. Like, his parents are like, oh, my gosh, you did so great. Ask 17,000 questions. Like, they're like, that. My parents are like, oh, cool.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

And, like, that's it. But, like, that's just, like, normal.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Tay]

And that's been, like, I think, for Taylor and I I'm like, oh, honey, that's great. And that's, like, all I'll say. He's like, like, but did you like it? Or, like, do you think that's a good idea? Like, he. Like, it's not validating him enough. But that's like, I was raised just, like, great. Like, that was all I got. So, like, that's how I am. And we were up with my parents recently, and we were telling them about something exciting, and they were like, oh, my gosh, how cool. And then, like, one of them started talking about something else. We got in the car, and he was like, I finally realized where you get it from. Like, and it's not like, my parents are great and they're, like, the most supportive people, but they're just, like, not. Like, his mom is like, she will ask, like, 17, 000 questions, and it's like, just so, like, well, that's how.

[Michaela]

Like, my husband. That's how Jace's mom. Well, Jace's mom is just, like. I mean, again, she's had 14 kids, so I don't know how. I'm like, I don't know how. She's so incredible. The way that she can handle her emotions and everyone else's is, like, so fascinating and admirable to me because, again, she's so good at validating all his sisters. Like, they're all so great at validating people, which I think is such an amazing trait to have. I wish it's one that I had. Yeah, they're just so great at validating. Like, they're always like, you're so amazing. Like, you're so this. You're so this. And I think I actually talked about that on your. When I came here for your Valentine's thing. Like, the hardest thing I've had to learn with Jace, too, is, like, his love language.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because that's. I think that's a big shift when you get married. Is like, this is not something that's. Is safe and comfortable for me, but this is something you really need. And so it's a really hard dynamic of.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Oh, well, he wants me to ask 100 questions, or he wants me to validate him in this. But, yeah, also communicating it. Like, I was never communicating things. I just had expectations for Jason. That was kind of.

[Tay]

Yeah, I know. I think the love language thing is so interesting. I've been together for over seven years now, and I'm like, I know your love language, and I'm still struggling with trying to do that.

[Michaela]

And you're still and sometimes it is hard. Like, it's. Again, having kids. It's so hard. And, like, now doing the show, being so emotionally exhausted.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

It's. I get home and Jace comes. That's when I see my childhood come in, like my child self come in. In the defensiveness.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Is because he'll come to me with these issues, and instead of me saying, like, oh, I'm so sorry you're dealing with these issues, I'm like, you're having these issues because I'm not being a good enough wife or I'm not doing enough for you.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Where that's something I've recently voiced to him is like, I have all this, like, internal guilt for some reason that I'm projecting on you where it's, like, not necessarily your fault, but he's now able to realize when it's happening and, like, just word things more nicely.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because it's not like he's being rude, but he's like, I understand why it would be triggering when I'm saying, I wish you did this.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because him saying, I wish you did this is. Oh, I'm not doing this.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Where I don't. I'm not, like, listening the other side of it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But, yeah, love languages are. It's.

[Tay]

It's.

[Michaela]

It's interesting that's. I've had to actually even, like, learn what my love languages are recently.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because again, I feel like when you don't grow up sharing your emotions, I'm like, I actually don't know what to tell you that I need because I don't know what I need. And, like, recently I was like, yeah, my love language, it is physical touch, which is interesting. It's just not like, going to. To the therapy. I'm like, yes, I do love, Like, I love cuddling, I love massages. But the second it turns into something like sexual or anything, it's like a trigger and then I get, like, upset. But I'm like, I do love physical touch and I love, like, being close.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Which I think is like a good building block, too.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

To healing the sexual trauma, too. But yeah, I was like, I don't know, like, massages. Massages are my love language.

[Tay]

I remember you saying that.

[Michaela]

Yes.

[Tay]

So having a kid at 16, I imagine I feel like you. Well, even, like, obviously I've become friends with your friends. And even, like, talking with Macy and Jesse, they're like, she's young, but she's, like, literally, like the mom. Like, she is the most mature out.

[Michaela]

Of all of us.

[Tay]

Like, it's so crazy. And, I mean, it makes sense. You were. What you've been through. I feel like you've really had to grow up. You know, the abuse aside, even just having a parent like that, a parent that's not home. Like, you really have to.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

Grow up.

[Michaela]

You do have to raise yourself and.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

Figure it out. What.

[Michaela]

What.

[Tay]

What would you say was the hardest thing, having a kid so young?

[Michaela]

I think I'm like. I think I was just. I don't want to say, like, I was made for it, but thinking back, I was like, I do feel like.

[Tay]

Your friends would agree that you were made for it.

[Michaela]

I feel like he. Like, I don't know why. Like, in my mind, I never had. I think it was a little bit of that internal guilt of, like, this is my fault. Like, I did this and I have to deal with it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I didn't feel comfortable saying, like, mom, like, what do I do? Like, I need help. So, like, I immediately, like, came into, like, oh, well, I'm keeping. Like, that was the first thing I said was, I'm keeping the baby, and I'm gonna make it work. And I do think I've learned so much through, like, him.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Again, I'm like, I just. And being a mom, I'm like, oh, I actually hate this that my mom did to us, and I don't want to be this person for my kids. And. Yeah. I think the hardest part was just the isolation. Like, the. I would really pull myself away because I was so. I felt so guilty and embarrassed.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So. Yeah. Just being isolated. Like, I feel like there was a time where I was. I mean, obviously I had just moved out of my house, so I was really depressed during that time.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then having a kid and isolating. Like, me and Jace were obviously getting in fights, getting to know each other.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And that was really isolating, too. And I just felt like I never had anyone to reach out to during that time.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I think it was really just, like, packing, just stacking up inside of me.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

All this, like, guilt and shame and trauma. So. Yeah, I think that was probably the hardest part is just not feeling like I had anyone to. To go to.

[Tay]

Yeah, you talked about a little bit, but in the show, we get to see, like, the inside of one of your therapy sessions. And I actually cried watching it because I just.

[Michaela]

I, like, forget about all these things.

[Tay]

I know it's just one. It's very. It's a very vulnerable thing for you to do, but it's just like, it's inspiring in a way because, like, I can see. I could see the hurt, like, in you, like, when you're talking and, like, you're struggling to get these things out, but that it's so inspiring to watch. You want to push through that to heal. Because I think that's a lot of people, they're afraid to speak up or they don't want to have to relive it because they know if they go to therapy, they're going to have to relive the situation.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

And I feel like it. Obviously, you know, sexual abuse victims, but also, you know, people from any circumstance, you know, it doesn't need to be some form of abuse. Any hard time that you've gone through, having to, you know, go to therapy and relive that and work towards that healing journey, it is hard. But you were just like. So I actually. I watched it twice because I watched it once and then I rewatched it with Taylor and I cried both times because it's just. It's. It's just, like, inspiring. And it's a beautiful moment of, like, hurt and strive and love. So I want to thank you for like, allowing that because that is not an easy task to do. But. When did you start going to therapy?

[Michaela]

I started actually, the first therapy session. It's funny, the first one I ever went to was when I found out I was pregnant. And I don't know why, it's like, I have, like, very vague memory of it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But it was a therapy session with my mom in the room, which I was like, this is after. I was.

[Tay]

Seems kind of productive.

[Michaela]

Yes. I was like, what am I gonna open up about? Like, I don't think I really got anything from it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because I don't even remember what we were talking about. Like, it might have just been getting pregnant. It might have been, like a school obligated thing, to be honest, because I got pregnant and. Yeah. That was like. I don't even count that as my first therapy session.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because I'm like, I think she did more again. She has this, like, tendency of, like, if I bring something up that. That hurt me, then she pushes it back on. Like, well, you're doing this or I did it because you did this.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so not taking. That's like, kind of what the therapy session was like. It was like, well, I just did this. And then she's like, you have no idea what I have to go through, though, with them. So it was, like, counterproductive.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But the first one I Ever did was a couples therapy with Jace. And that started. It started with communication stuff, like, I was telling you, like, the love language, like, me emotionally shutting down, not being able to, like, up. And then it kind of, like, there was a little bit of, like, the sexual abuse that came up in it because they were just, like, asking about the past and this and this and that.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But then I never, like. I just have a habit. I feel like a lot of people have a habit when they first start therapy to go. I would overshare. I'd feel uncomfortable. I wouldn't go for another year.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so I. I kind of, like, did that a couple times. And so that was probably, like, six years ago. Like, again, where I was, like, struggling or. No, it must have been longer ago. Like seven years, which is communication stuff.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then was this after you guys had your. This is after we had Beckham. Okay. Yeah. After my first. Just because, like, that's when the. I feel like you. The beginning was more toxic because it was, like, really that dynamic of him getting angry because I wasn't expressing myself, and I didn't know how to. And he just wanted to help me. And so it was just, like, a lot more of that anger in the beginning. And then after that, we did the therapy. I started going. I think I went by myself because, again, I felt. I didn't feel comfortable in a therapy thing with him because it's, like, what I'm able to realize now, I do have that guilt. And so if I'm saying something that's hurtful.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And he gets upset, then I feel that guilt because I'm like, it's my fault.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I just didn't feel comfortable going with him. I'm like. I think there are things that I. I think truly sexual abuse is something you need to work on yourself.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I think he's. He's patient with that and he's understanding, but he's just there for me when I need him to vent or talk to.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I. I started doing, like, a little bit, like, six years ago. Five or six years ago. And then again, it's like, I went to one or two sessions, and then I never went back.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then I started, like, three years ago when all my health stuff started. It wasn't, like, horrible at the beginning. It was really the, like, two years that were, like, awful.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

After the first year, where it got, like, really chronic and bad.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

That. It was, like, really a mental thing.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Like, that's where I really started getting like, depressed again to where it wasn't like the guilt. It was more like the shame of, like, oh, I'm not enough for my kids or my family, or I'm not. Because I physically couldn't. Like, I could barely get out of bed. I was in so much pain that, like, I couldn't pick my kids up from school. I couldn't do, like, little tasks.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And it was really weighing on me. And again, that kind of trickled into, like, our sex life because we couldn't. I couldn't do that either. Yeah. And so. And then we started filming, like, I think we were filming at, like, the peak of when my chronic illness got so bad.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

That I think I went to there. Oh, no, I did. I think I went to therapy a couple times. Season one, and that's what's shown as a flashback was that was in season one when I was, like. It was all just, like, piling up at that point.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because it was like my body physically could not take any more of this.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And, yeah. Like, I. My body was, like, almost shutting down. Like, I had so many infections, so many different things going on, and I just didn't get any answers.

[Tay]

What did you think was causing your skin? Because didn't you think it was like, it. Did you have. Did you get breast implants removed?

[Michaela]

Did I read that? So it actually happened a year before that is when it all started was in 20. 2022. February 2022 is when it all started. And it started as, like, allergies. Like, I would wake up and my eyes were, like, almost swollen shut, and I had, like, eczema. Like, I would get eczema on my neck. I started getting molluscum, which is like a viral thing. Like, usually kids have it, And I just had, like, a whole patch of it. And I was like, what is going on?

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then I would start getting, like, hives, and my skin was, like, so itchy all the time. And I never had rashes, but it was so itchy. And it was like, a year of that. And then I got the implants in 2023. I believe in, like, March of 2023.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I was having, like, some skin issues. It wasn't like, anything that wasn't, like, manageable.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then once I got my breast implants in, it was like, it started, like, I started getting the rashes, like, spreading. Getting worse.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And then I went on steroids. And when I went on steroids, that's when it really. It's like my body went through A full withdrawal. I went through, like, only three things of steroids. And I remember it was September. I think September of 2023 is when it started getting really bad because I had, like, cold turkey from. I was just doing oral steroids. And then I went to Europe, so I cold turkey. And when I was in Europe, like, my skin started just, like, burning. Like, I was just covered. It started getting so bad. And at this point, I had no idea. Like, I was doing diets. I thought I was going to doctors. And they were like, yeah, it's eczema. It's.

[Jace]

Yes.

[Michaela]

They weren't, like, giving, take Benadryl, do this. But, yeah, the steroids is what really threw my body. Like, I went through, like, a full steroid withdrawal, and I was. When I got back from Europe, so, like, September till December, my body was just bright red. Like, I had, like, red sleeves. Like, it was like my whole body was bright red. It's like, it. Oh, my gosh. It's so horrible. I had, like, the worst, like, fear of going to sleep because I couldn't sleep. Like, I was sleeping, like, two hours a night because I had, like, full body nerve damage. Like, my skin was so thin that I just had nerve damage and, like, tingling and burning all over my body for, like, the months. And again, I felt so sad because I couldn't, like, snuggle my kids. I couldn't, like, do anything. Like, I just. Yeah, I feel like I didn't wear clothes for, like, three months because I just couldn't have anything on me. My skin was so horrible. And then it would, like. It would, like, ooze and it would bleed and it would cut open, and so. And there was, like, nothing I could do. And I feel like that's when I was, like, so vulnerable. I think that was, like, the true. Like, the one time that I really started, like, opening up to Jason, like, crying, because I would never cry in front of him. Like, I would always, like, cry by myself because that was, like, where I felt safe. But during my skin stuff, like, I was going through the steroid withdrawal, like, chemically in my brain, too. Like, I was, like, sobbing like, four times a day to him of, like, I'm just so over this. Like, I hated it so much. And then at this point, we had already had the opportunity to do the show.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I had my implants in still. I had been talking to a doctor about getting them out. I. I had a root canal that I was like, maybe, like, I've. I've just been, like, doing a Lot of self research. Like, I've learned about root canals and how toxic and poisoning they are for your body.

[Jace]

Wow.

[Michaela]

And like, obviously they're gonna harbor harbor infections and all that stuff. And so I was like, maybe I need to get that taken out. And so in December is when I like set up my appointment to do my take my implants out. And then I went in January, took them out, and it was so horrible. They actually filmed this. They like filmed my whole surgery, taking them out and doing. Because it was like the first stage of my healing journey of like literally removing all the toxic people and things for my life and body. And so I went, I took them out later that night in my sir. Like, my boobs started like swelling up. And like they put little drains in when you get your implants out. And my right one just kept like filling up with blood. And I was like, I feel like something's not okay. Like, I was in so much pain I could barely sit up or like, do anything. And so then I went in the next morning at 6am and he like just took one look and he's like, you have to go to surgery right now. Like, start getting ready for surgery again. Because I had a hematoma that it was just like bleeding. And then I had to go and yeah, just emergency surgery the next morning. And I was like, of course this would happen to me. Like, it was like the story of my life at that point. I was like, like, yeah, if it's happening, it's happening to me. So I was like, of course this would happen. But then like, yeah, they drained that all out. He was like, I opened it up, couldn't tell where the bleeding was coming from. So I just had to like, cauterize everything. And I was like, oh, amazing.

[Tay]

Love to hear that.

[Michaela]

And then. Yeah. And then I went back to. To Utah. Two days later, we started filming season one. So I was like, fresh. I can't remember where I was at. I think it was a scene at Macy's house. And I had like, bruises. Like, I was literally going. It was like two days later, we hopped into season one.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I was still dealing with like, all my skin stuff. Yeah, I was having to show up. Like, I never wore makeup. I was always wearing sweats. Like, I just felt so ugly during that time that I was like, it's hard. It was hard, like going out of the house even before I got the implants out. Like, I remember Jace, like forcing me to get out of the house because I would just like stay in my House. Like, I stopped talking to Macy a lot at this point. I was friends with Whitney still, and so I kind of was, like, isolating myself a little bit because I didn't want to go out. And I was so uncomfortable that I didn't want to go out.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I remember just, like, sitting in the car, like, we went to the mall, and I just start crying. I was like, I don't want to get out. Like, I'm so ugly. Like, it felt sad.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Sorry. Like, it was really sad thinking back, because. Yeah. Like, I was like, I don't want to go out. Like, what if someone sees me and I'm looking like this? Which is so sad to think back now because, again, like, showing up for filming was so hard because I felt that every single time, I was like, I just feel so ugly. I don't want to go. I don't want to film and be on camera and have everyone see this. So I guess it was kind of nice that they cut me out of season one a lot because I was like, honestly, thank God, No. But, like, I just felt so, like, watching the season back too. Like, Park City just got my root canal pulled out, so I had. My cheek was swollen. Like, I'm going to film all these things. So, yeah, that time was hard. But I think, again, it was a really pivotal moment for my mental health because it was really like, I'm inter. I've been internalizing this for so long that it's starting to come out in physical ways and I can't run from it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so that was, like, the first time I ever really had, like, really vulnerable conversations with Jace about, like, how I was feeling, because it was, like, literally every single day for, like, three months straight. I'm crying to him four times a day and being super vulnerable about how shitty I feel or how ugly I feel, like I look or, like, how I feel, like I'm not doing enough or I'm not enough. And so that, like, really bonded us in that way to where I felt comfortable to open up to him.

[Jace]

Yeah, that's special.

[Michaela]

And then, yeah, it was. It was nice. I think there's definitely pros that came from it. And again, being able to share my story online, and I think that's what I love about social media and, like, doing the show is that, again, I'm forced into these uncomfortable situations that I would never do before, like, on my own.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

So I think that is a really good positive that has come from sharing my story and being on the show.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Because Yeah. I wasn't seeing any change before, and it wasn't until I was put in situations where I was really uncomfortable or again, I'm in therapy and I'm shaking and I'm breathing heavy and I'm doing whatever. Like, those situations is where I saw, like, the most change. Walking away from it.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Tay]

I'm curious. Where do you stand with your mom today?

[Michaela]

It's. I still see her. I see her here and there. Like, she moved further away after my grandpa passed away. She still comes to, like, take care of my grandma, like, every two weeks.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

But we don't really see her unless it's for, like, holidays or, like, we have a birthday. And again, it's like, that's not a conversation we've ever had. And I think that's. I think that's been, like, the hardest thing to come to terms with is I don't think I'm ever going to have that conversation. And I think I'm okay with it now because, again, if I was to bring it up, I think it would be met with the same deflection that I saw my whole life. And so I think, like, for my own healing, I've just moved forward being like, that's okay. Like, I can be that safe place for myself, and I can take what you showed me and never want to be like that. And, yeah, I think I've just come to terms with. With healing myself and my family. And, yeah, I can have empathy towards her in her situation growing up, but it's also not my problem to fix.

[Tay]

So.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

Yeah.

[Tay]

Well, I'm proud of you. Okay, let's talk about the show a little bit. So you obviously saw Whitney on our podcast.

[Michaela]

And I saw her on a couple podcasts.

[Tay]

Yep.

[Michaela]

But I didn't, like, what was your.

[Tay]

Reaction to saying that she was coming on? And I'm curious what your takeaway was.

[Michaela]

After watching it, I'm like, I'm gonna tread lightly. I'm gonna try and be nice about it. Yeah. I think there's a lot of confusion when it comes to Whitney because I genuinely just don't get where her mindset's at. I think there's a lot in her that triggers me because it reminds me of my mom, too. And I think it's hard, especially in season two, because we had so many conversations about. And, like, I would reference the podcast of. You said this on the podcast, I think, because I. There was one line specifically where you asked her, like, oh, well, do you have anything you feel like you need to say? To the other woman. And she was like, nope, they want to talk to me, they can. And so, again, I think that was very telling. I was like, okay, interesting. Because coming back, she's like, I'm ready to apologize. I'm ready to do this. But again, it was like she didn't know what she was taking accountability. Accountability for and apologizing for. So for me, it just didn't seem genuine. It came from a place of she was wanting a redemption or she was wanting to come back for opportunities. And. And I think that's something that. That I've seen with her, is that she comes back when it's convenient for her.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And so I think for me, and, like, my own personal growth, I was like, it's okay for me to be like, I'm not letting you take any of the power. I'm keeping the power over here, and if you can do whatever you want and be on your way. But, yeah, just seeing her on the podcast, still not. And this was like. I think it was like, two weeks before we started filming that I saw the podcast of. Of her being like, nope, don't have anything to apologize for. So then it was like, she saw how she looked season one and then came back into season two being like, oh, I'm ready to apologize and take accountability. And then I would be like, well, I just don't believe it's genuine. And then she would get so angry and start like, yeah, yelling and doing things. And so I'm like, it just. It doesn't feel genuine to me. It feels like there was an agenda with it, which I think is fair. I think it's a fair assumption to make. But, yeah. Yeah, it was definitely interesting.

[Tay]

Yeah, for sure.

[Michaela]

But I think there's that. That common theme with her, for sure.

[Tay]

Like, and. Yeah. Okay, last question I have for you is, what are you most proud of yourself for? Oh.

[Michaela]

See, this is hard. I have a good time or have a hard time validating myself. I feel like I'm definitely proud of the way I handle things. Like, in. I think back to, like, the first conversation I had with my siblings of, why don't you have this anger towards these people? And I'm able. Like, I'm just proud of myself for now, being able to come out of it and look back with empathy and actually, like, really be in control of my emotions now.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

At least, like, still, I'm not completely. I'm pregnant, so I'm like, yeah, not completely in control of my emotions right now. But, yeah, like, I feel like I became the person that I needed back then when I was 8 years old, 7 years old. Like, the person that I needed back then. I feel like that's who I'm becoming now.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And I can say I'm proud of that.

[Jace]

Yeah.

[Michaela]

And just the effort that I've put in, I feel like I've had a lot of courage in the last couple years to, like, face that and really go deep, so. Yeah.

[Tay]

Well, I'm proud of you. Thank you for opening up and sharing, and I am excited for people to really get to see more of you this season. And also, just that you wear your little spicier. I love it. No, it's. It's so good.

[Michaela]

You're just like, there's only so much someone can take. I'm like it.

[Tay]

But you're also just authentically yourself, and you're a good friend, and I'm honored to know you. And thanks for.

[Michaela]

Thanks for coming so much. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products.

[Tay]

Or services referred to in this episode.