Ira Madison III (3:33)

Hi. I'm so excited to finally be here.

Tracy Thomas (3:36)

I know. I feel like I got to do Keep it years ago, and I finally get to, like, return the favor of having you on. For people who don't know, Ira is the host of Keep it, which has been one of my favorite podcasts. I started listening on day one.

Ira Madison III (3:50)

Oh, wow.

Tracy Thomas (3:51)

I am a day one og OG fan. And Ira's new book is called Pure Innocent Fun. It's a collection of memoir. Memoir and essays. Do you think it's a memoir in essays, or do you say it's just essays? I wasn't both.

Ira Madison III (4:05)

You know, I feel like it has the title. I love that it has, like, essays at the top, you know, but it's so serious. It's. I know, right? But it's, you know, it's both. I feel like it follows a natural progression, you know?

Tracy Thomas (4:18)

Yeah.

Ira Madison III (4:18)

Like, it feels like you're reading like an arc. So I would say memoir and essays is fits.

Tracy Thomas (4:25)

Okay, before we dive into the book, can you just tell folks, like, a little bit about yourself? I sort of gave a little professional bio, but give us a little. Who's Ira? What's the deal?

Ira Madison III (4:36)

Well, you know, I'm a writer, and I live in New York City, and I used to write for, you know, gq, New York magazine, that kind of stuff. And when I was looking to write a book, it was something that I'd always sort of wanted to do. And honestly, I dedicate the book to my grandmother who has always reminded me, no matter what I've done, by the way, like, writing for tv, writing for anything else, it's always been, well, you know, where's that book that you always wanted to write when you were a kid. And I thought I was going to write, you know, a goosebump book or something. So that's what I want. That's what I used to write as a kid. I wrote my own, like, little short horror stories. I was obsessed with those books. And then I think when I was, you know, trying to come up with a book, my agent, Aaron is very lovely and had also been a person being like, when are you writing a book, girl? You know, And I think really, it was just, why don't I turn the writing that I already do regularly into something longer and something a bit more personal than, you know, just one off writing for a website on pop culture, like, of the day, you know, write about something that feels more permanent and something you can really dig into. Culture that already exists.

Tracy Thomas (5:55)

Yeah. I mean, so one of the things I really appreciate about the book is how you talked about your relationship to reading as you, like, as a kid. It was very clear that, you know, you like books, you. You like reading. And I'm thinking about sort of as I was reading it, you talk so much about nostalgia and, like, our relationship to these pieces of art or, like, these pieces of culture that we loved as, like, that we. That we say that we love, but, like, maybe we haven't revisited. And you talk about sort of like, only remembering the good parts. And then I started, like, thinking about things that I love, and I was like, ooh, I should stop talking about some of these things because I haven't revisited them in a while. But I know you revisited a lot of things in the book, so was there any pop culture that you went back to and you were like, I do not. I cannot say that I love this anymore.

Ira Madison III (6:43)

Well, I mean, I think I say the Power Rangers, which I love. You know, the movie is still great, but the TV show itself is. It's really a hard watch. Yeah, it's not. A lot of the kids shows, I feel like, are things that obviously were meant to entertain kids. And you revisit some of them and you wonder how your parents put up with it. I think you remember something like all that for Nickelodeon. I don't even think I really write about that in here, but I rewatched a few episodes and I just kept having flashbacks to my great grandmother, like, hating the show because she was just like. She's just like, all they're doing is yelling, you know, And I remember that, like, watching it, I was, like, the baseline for, like, Nickelodeon and, like, kids shows of the 90s was really just loud. Loud, you know, it was loud, and it was like, not even necessarily a joke that's funny. It's just. You just have to deliver it very loud, you know?

Tracy Thomas (7:46)

Yeah, that's so true. Oh, my God. All that. I also. I have to be honest, I did not love all that as a kid. I recognized pretty early on that, like, Lori Beth Denberg was the star and, like, was the true talent and that a lot of it was just mess all around.

Ira Madison III (8:02)

Like, she was like a dry wit, you know, she wasn't, like, screaming.

Tracy Thomas (8:06)

She was, like, doing something. I was like, that. That child is. I mean, I was also a child, but I was like, oh, that girl's, like, smarter than me. Like, she's figured out how to be funny in a different way. Ira. You know, we both went to nyu.

Ira Madison III (8:20)

Oh, my God.

Tracy Thomas (8:22)

When you mentioned Cozy Diner, I was like, shout out. And then I was like, wait, it's only open till 10.

Ira Madison III (8:27)

It is now. It's rude as hell.

Tracy Thomas (8:31)

What a nightmare. This was like, the diner right across from Tish. We were both Tishy. And it was like, where everybody went after, like, late night rehearsal or like, if you were working on something late, or if you were, they are super early and you needed, like, to get breakfast after something before the next thing. And it was just like, diner food. It's not particularly good, but it's like quintessential NYU Tisch student restaurant.

Ira Madison III (8:54)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (8:54)

And it used to open 24 hours, right?

Ira Madison III (8:56)

Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Thomas (8:57)

No, I was there, I think. Well, I was there. I graduated in 2008. Okay, we there at the same time.

Ira Madison III (9:02)

We know. I started in 2009. Grad school there.

Tracy Thomas (9:06)

Got it. And you did the playwriting.

Ira Madison III (9:08)

Yeah, playwriting. Dramatic writing. So I did playwriting and TV writing. Yeah. I was on the seventh floor.

Tracy Thomas (9:15)

Okay, how about the fact that I thought your actual introduction was written by actual Chuck Klosterman.

Ira Madison III (9:22)

Oh, my God.

Tracy Thomas (9:25)

Okay. When you get the book, you have to look. But it's like the way that it's written is it says, like, all. You know, the. The table of contents is all the titles. But then it says introduction, colon, Chuck Klosterman. So I was like, o. Chuck Klosterman wrote the introduction?

Ira Madison III (9:40)

Yes. Okay. So we changed it for.

Tracy Thomas (9:44)

Oh, for the final.

Ira Madison III (9:45)

We changed it for the final. And now it is. Now it is on Chuck Klosterman.

Tracy Thomas (9:51)

Did other people think that?

Ira Madison III (9:53)

Was I the only one? Or other people thought when I put out the list of essays, like the table of contents on Instagram once People thought that. And I was like, you know, what if they're going to preorder, Like, a.

Tracy Thomas (10:06)

Lot of they're going to get it because they think Chuck wrote it. I got, like, halfway into it, and I was like, chuck didn't write this.

Ira Madison III (10:12)

Right.

Tracy Thomas (10:14)

I was like, I've been. I've been bamboozled. Okay. I'm always so curious about this with memoir. With memoir writing. And this is sort of, you know, you write. You write some memoir, but you do write about other people in your life in here. And I'm wondering how you were thinking about approaching that. Were you worried that people would find out that you had written about them? How much were you wanting to talk about them? Not family, but, like, there's some people in high school that you sort of call. You talk about. So I was just curious about that.

Ira Madison III (10:43)

You know, I. First thing I did was I just wrote it all out with everyone's names, you know, and then I went back and changed names. Some people's names are actually the same because they are friends of mine, and I let them know that they would be in the book. And I think most of them didn't care, you know. I think most of them have known me for long enough. They're like, it can't be worse than what you wrote in your livejournal in high school, you know? No, but, no, the approaching. It was just very much, to be honest, when I was writing it, in no way did I think, like, anyone from high school is, like, ever gonna see this anyway, you know, but, you.

Tracy Thomas (11:25)

Know, they will if you write about them.

Ira Madison III (11:26)

Yeah. You know, but it's like, I feel like. To the. I feel like the steps you need to get to for them to get it, you know, like, they'd have to pick up the book, they have to read it. They'd have to, like, parse, like, the actual story if it's about them, since I changed names, etc. You know? Like, I think if someone finds it, then the book's doing well, and then I'll deal with it when I get there. But, you know, I don't know if random person from middle school or high school is even going to be, like, reading this book, you know?

Tracy Thomas (11:55)

Do you ever think about what would happen if you were in someone else's memoir? Like, if you were the person, you.

Ira Madison III (12:01)

Know, I think everyone is. Plays different roles in people's lives, you know, so I'd be excited to see. Not excited. I'd be anxious to see, you know, how I came off to someone Else in high school.

Tracy Thomas (12:13)

Yeah. I sometimes am, like, it would be awesome. And sometimes I'm like, I was a monster.

Ira Madison III (12:18)

So luckily not that many writers from my high school experience, to be honest.

Tracy Thomas (12:24)

Yet that's true. Just wait, just wait. Everyone's got one book at them. Yeah, I'm just biding my time till I have to have someone on from high school. And then they're like, you know, you are the person, the villain in this book. And I'm like, oh, well, you're off the show. How about the difference between writing this, like, long form thing? How was that for you? Because, you know, we know you as obviously a podcaster, but also from, like, MTV News and buzzfeed, when you were writing a lot of short form stuff. So how did this compare for you?

Ira Madison III (12:53)

Uh, it was a process. You know, I'm used to, like I said, writing things that feel, you know, much more ephemeral. You know, they feel like very quick, short bursts on, like, a hot take, you know, something on a recent TV show, a movie, et cetera. Something happening in pop culture. And for those sites, I had to learn how to write very quickly, you know, and for this, I was taking my time, you know, and it was writing. Yeah, it was. It was a much harder process. You know, it was like I first sort of approached one of the first essays as just sort of trying to write something longer than I had before. And I was like, okay, you're actually going to have to maybe outline some of these essays. And that's eventually what I did, you know, outlining them, because I'm just going, you know, without the outline. Works for something shorter. But it didn't really work for this book. You know, I was actually shocked at how much harder it was to write a longer essay. Oh, yeah, yeah. It just wasn't a muscle that I had exercised yet. But now it's something I enjoy.

Tracy Thomas (14:03)

You like it? Do you want to write another book?

Ira Madison III (14:06)

Yeah, absolutely.

Tracy Thomas (14:07)

A Goosebumps.

Ira Madison III (14:08)

Yeah, I mean, another essay collection, A fictional fiction. I am working on an idea for a novel, so we'll see. I've. I've fallen, like, in love with, like, writing books now, so. Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (14:24)

How does it change your relationship to yourself, like writing this book?

Ira Madison III (14:28)

I think it changes my relationship to myself with. I'll step outside that and say, like, it's changed my relationship. Not changed relationship so much, but I feel like some friends who have read it so far, you know, have been like, they've seen a different side of me, or they feel like I get like, the three Dimensional of you now, you know, Or I guess the fourth dimension of me now, you know, it's. It's been very nice, you know, to see people respond to it well, like, in my life. So I think that has been a thing that's changed. And I think for me, I'm just very happy to have. Yeah. Felt comfortable, like, opening up or just being vulnerable as a writer, you know, as an artist. I think that that's sort of what real art and work takes, you know? And I think that a lot of the work that I've had to do, television, writing for other people's shows, et cetera, hasn't really necessarily required that. And it's not to say that I hate that kind of writing, because I loved it, you know, I love television. I loved being in that world, being in a writer's room, you know, But I feel like I always sort of felt like an imposter writer, you know, I felt like I wasn't really writing, you know, in the way that I had always envisioned, you know, because it.

Tracy Thomas (15:51)

Was like someone else's story.

Ira Madison III (15:52)

Someone else's story. And I don't think that I really was that. Yeah, you're just trying to write something that works for other people, you know, I don't think I was. Really saw myself as a writer, to be honest, until this book, which is a weird thing to say.

Tracy Thomas (16:08)

That's wild. Yeah.

Ira Madison III (16:09)

Yeah. Because I've had a career writing, but I don't know, I feel like a real writer now, having finished this.

Tracy Thomas (16:18)

Yeah. I mean, I sort of. I sort of feel like that makes sense a little bit. But also, I'm like, ira, yeah, you're a writer. You're all right. Oh, my God, you're right. Like, I think I used to run, and I never would say I was a runner, and then I finally ran a marathon, and then I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm a runner. Like, I guess I sort of have to own this.

Ira Madison III (16:40)

But, like, the book, you know, like, the book is a marathon.

Tracy Thomas (16:42)

Yeah, no, I do understand that. Where it's like, yeah, I run, or like, yeah, I write, but I'm not, like, a writer. Like, you know, but then I feel like when you write a book, you sort of like, you sort of can't be like, I'm not a writer. Even if you want to feel that way, you sort of can't be like, people are like, okay, bitch, but I'm holding your book like you're a writer.

Ira Madison III (17:01)

Not too imposter syndrome, you know, too much. But I Just feel like. Because I'd have the podcast for so long too, and I stopped writing so much for other outlets whenever people would ask me, oh, look, you write, you know, it'd be hard to give them point to something, you know.

Tracy Thomas (17:17)

Right.

Ira Madison III (17:17)

And I feel like now I have a project that feels like me. Yeah, it is me. And it's nice to be able to point to that. And so, yeah, that's what I mean. You know, not to knock my other writing, but, yeah, I really feel like one now.

Tracy Thomas (17:32)

I get it. I want to ask you, I guess, about sort of your relationship to audience, because I think, you know, you do all these different. This. All this different stuff, you know, like tv, writing this book, the buzzfeed, MTV News, and then the podcast. And sort of each of those things have a different lag time between when you do it and when the audience gets to it. And so I'm wondering what that's like, because I know someone who does a week, as someone who does a weekly podcast, even though I don't always hear from my audience about every single moment of every single episode, I get some pretty instantaneous feedback like a week later. Right. Like, I record it, and then in a week I hear about it. And that feels really fast. Whereas, like, if you're writing a book, it's years and years of work before you get really any audience feedback. Like, you might get feedback from people you know and love, and even, like, as a playwright or like, if you're doing that sort of stuff, it's like you're in the theater and you get to hear people respond to it as it's happening. So I'm wondering, like, sort of what if there's one that you prefer or if there's something that's, like, interesting to you about the different lag times between creating and engaging with audience.

Ira Madison III (18:38)

Yeah, I mean, listen, we do. We record our podcast too, like YouTube. So if I want to see what people think, I can go right to the comments, you know, and luckily, actually, the YouTube comments on Keep it are, like, very lovely. Honestly, I feel like the people who are going there week to week to watch the show, like, you're sitting there and watching it. They're generally like people who have something, like, nice to say, the audience for this. It's so that's something I haven't wrapped my head around yet, you know, because.

Tracy Thomas (19:11)

We'Re recording this before the book comes out.

Ira Madison III (19:13)

Yes, I have it, like, you know, and even when the book comes out, people are gonna have to have time to read it.

Tracy Thomas (19:19)

Yeah.

Ira Madison III (19:19)

You know, so. Yeah, that is.

Tracy Thomas (19:21)

Well, when you come back for Lolita discussion, you'll be able to tell me a little bit. We'll circle back to audience reaction because I'm just so fascinating.

Ira Madison III (19:30)

Even that, though, you know, I think that we've never really toured. Keep it, you know. Yeah, no, we haven't. Yeah, we've done, like, some live shows in la, but we haven't really toured it. And we're doing a live show for the tour in Boston, and I have, like, these other tour dates, and it's. I think that is what I'm interested in, too. Like, not so much even the audience reaction, because I feel like at a certain point, you just got to go with God and it's out there, you know? But I'm interested in the audience of who is, like, paying for a ticket, who is buying a book, who is traveling to the bookstore or the event space to see me and listen to me read. You know, I think that is what I'm really excited to see.

Tracy Thomas (20:20)

Yeah.

Ira Madison III (20:20)

And whether or not they love it or don't like it or have problems with it, you know, if they're still along with me for the ride, then I'm okay with that.

Tracy Thomas (20:29)

I love it. Okay, one more thing I want to talk about about the book, and then we'll transition to your reading life. You talk about literature as gossip in this book, and I love it. I love it. You're, like, speaking to my heart. Because there's only two things I love in this world, Books and gossip. And not in that order. It's gossip. First for me, like, all I love is if it's gossip, I love it. And I know you love a messy book, because when I asked you to send over book recommendations, you literally sent over, like, the messiest books. Plus Anthony Bourdain, who is sort of a messy bitch.

Ira Madison III (21:03)

He's messy.

Tracy Thomas (21:04)

He was messy in Kitchen Confidential. But I cannot read that book again. Again. So I want to. When did that idea of, like, literature as gossip come to you? And what is your relationship to gossip?

Ira Madison III (21:15)

I mean, we love the gossip. We love the tea. Honestly, My group text that I always share the tea with, by the way, the. In my acknowledgments, I was. It was so hard for me to name just, like, friends, you know, who've been involved in my life. But I was like. I named four important groups in my life, and one of them in particular, you know, it's. I love them because, like, a weekend or, like, a morning will start off with someone sending Off a voice note. And they're like, girl, I got the tea. You know, And I think that some, you know, that's bonds, friends, you know, you know, the gossip, the communicating. So I love it, you know, and we always love starting off like a chat with, like, what we call, like, the white mess, too, of, like, people that we know in New York. And we're like, you know, what are these girls up to this week? So that's fun. And I think books as gossip, like, what I was drawn to with reading, like, yes, like, it's nice to read a beautiful work of literature, right? But it's also nice to read, you know, something that feels like it's about someone's life, you know, like Romana Clef, you know, like, giving you that, like, secret history, you know, Less than zero. One of my favorite books. You know, those books are books that feel like they are. I mean, they literally are, you know, like, Brett Easton Ellis's life, John is hard to life. You know, they're. They're telling versions of their life and the people around them. Jane Austen, F. Scott Fitzgerald. You know, that is the kind of writing that I was drawn to that feels like it is alive in a way. Feels like it is a record of the time that it was written.

Tracy Thomas (23:18)

Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever read Danzy Senna?

Ira Madison III (23:22)

I have not.

Tracy Thomas (23:22)

You have to read new people. I know you would love it because it is.

Ira Madison III (23:26)

Okay.

Tracy Thomas (23:26)

It. It's like the main character, her name is Maria. I think about her at least once a week. I read the book in 2019. I still am curious if Maria is where we left her at the end of the book. Like, I just. I'm like, maria, are you there? Are you still there? What's going on, girl? It is so good. It's super short, and it's almost like a fever dream. The pacing, it's like. It reads like a thriller, but it's just about this woman's life. But it's, like, so intense and she's such a nut job that you're just like what she's like. Anyways, it's so good. I think you.

Ira Madison III (23:57)

Those are the kind of books, you know, I feel like obviously there's a. You could have a book that comes to, like, a beautiful conclusion or, you know, like the end of, like, A Color Purple or something, you know, like, you come to like, it's a beautiful life story. You come to the conclusion and you're satisfied at the end. Right. But I also. I just love a book where it's. Yeah, it feels like part of that person's life. And when it's over, you're all, you're. It's not like you're begging for the sequel, but you kind of are because you're like, well, what did you do tomorrow?

Tracy Thomas (24:28)

Yeah, what did you do tomorrow? What are you gonna do to get out of this, babe? Yeah, no, I think you would love it. I think you'd love Danzy Senna in general. She's just so funny. But I think new people is like for sure for you. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and then we'll be right back. If you like what you're hearing this week on the Stacks I encourage you to check out the Stacks Pack on Patreon and my newsletter Unstacked over on Substack. Both of these places offer monthly bonus content, including bonus episodes, and are a great way to support the work of this black woman run independent podcast. Quite frankly, I could not make the show without you. For those wondering, the Stacks Pack on Patreon is focused on a literary community. We have a discord. We do monthly book club meetups and we host a year long reading challenge called the Mega Challenge. If you're looking to meet and mingle with other book lovers, patreon.com the Stacks is the place for you over on Unstacked. I'm sharing my hot takes and bad attitude twice a week with posts and many podcasts about pop culture, book news, and I'm giving you insights into my reading life with many reviews, rankings and the books I'm looking forward to reading. This is a place for folks who just want more bookish content. And what's great about Substack is there are both free and paid options. Go to Tracy thomas.substack.com to subscribe, head to Patreon Substack or both and show this podcast some love. For just $5 a month, you get a bunch of bookish extras and you get to know you're helping to make the Stacks possible. When I first started using Shopify, I didn't know how much of a difference it would make. Setting up a store felt like a very daunting task and figuring out how to design it and manage payments and track inventory and all of that felt so overwhelming. But Shopify made it simple. With Shopify, everything you need is in one place. Designing your shop is easy even if you don't have any tech skills. You can customize it to match your brand, connect it to social media and start selling to customers wherever they are. And the best part Shopify handles all the complicated stuff like payments, shipping and taxes so you can focus on what you love, building your business and connecting with your customers. It really is a game changer. Upgrade your business and get the same checkout we use with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com thestacks all lowercase go to shopify.com thestacks to upgrade your selling today. Shopify.com thestacks I want you to pay.

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Tracy Thomas (27:59)

Okay, we're back. And before we talk about your books, we always do this. It's called Ask the Stacks. Someone has written in asking for a book recommendation, so I'm going to read the letter. You're going to give them at least one recommendation and we'll get started. This one comes from Rwanda. She says hello Tracy and guest. I need book suggestions for my mom. She has not made a lot of time for reading in the last 10 to 15 years, but she always enjoys reading when she actually does finish a book. She has set a goal to read four books in 2025, one per quarter, and I'm helping her with recommendations. A few books that she's enjoyed in recent years are Lisa Sees, Shanghai Girls and Snowflower and the Secret Fan and Eric Larson's Devil in the White City. I remember her always reading Regency romances when I was a kid. She also loves watching PBS Masterpiece Shows. I'm thinking narrative non fiction that isn't too challenging and plotty. Immersive historical fiction would Be the way to go, too. But I'm very open to suggestions. Okay.

Ira Madison III (29:01)

Okay.

Tracy Thomas (29:02)

Do you want me to go first, or do you already have something? It looks like you already have an idea.

Ira Madison III (29:06)

Well, I mean, she said Shanghai Girls, and I don't know if this would be, like, too this. I mean, this is so immersive, you know? But I was gonna suggest Free Food for Millionaires. Oh, by Min Jean Lee. Yeah. You know. Cause people always go to pachinko. But I've read this one. I haven't actually haven't read Pachinko.

Tracy Thomas (29:24)

I DNF'd Pachinko. I couldn't get into it.

Ira Madison III (29:26)

It was too slow for me. I love the show. I love the show.

Tracy Thomas (29:29)

Oh, you did? Okay.

Ira Madison III (29:30)

Yeah. So I was like, I'm gonna stick with the show, but Free Food for Millionaires is fun.

Tracy Thomas (29:36)

Okay.

Ira Madison III (29:37)

And Eric Larson hearing Devil in the White City, that is. I write about Borders in my book, like, working at the one in Chicago. So that was at the height of Devil in the White City, when you were looking at Borders. We had a huge display for that book in the front, like, and people were constantly coming in. I read that book twice. I love it. And I would also just suggest maybe some other Erik Larson, because I was recently. I was thinking about Devil in White City again recently over Thanksgiving, because one of my friends was reading. He was reading one of his new books. I think it is.

Tracy Thomas (30:18)

It's blended in the Vile.

Ira Madison III (30:20)

Yes. He was reading that book. And so I was like, oh, I haven't thought about Erik Larson in a minute.

Tracy Thomas (30:27)

And I wanted to jump into Erik Larson story. I was at a book festival in Mississippi, and we were like, everybody stays at the West End. It's the Mississippi Book Festival. We all stay at the West End. And, you know, you check in or whatever. And I was there sort of early, and I get in the elevator to go up to my room, and this, like, white, older white man gets in, and I'm like. And I'm like, oh, are you here for the festival? And he's like, yeah. And I was like, oh, my God, I think that's Eric Larson. Oh, my God, I think that's Eric Larson. And I was like. And he was like. I was like, oh, I'm Tracy Thomas. Nice to meet you. He was like, oh, I'm Eric Larson. And then I go, oh, my God, I'm such a fan of yours. And I, like, totally fangirl, like, all over him. I'm like, I just got back from Germany, and I was thinking about your book. Because he wrote that book about. All about like Germany and it's called in the Garden of Beasts. And I was like, I was thinking about you the whole time I was in Germany. And he was like, wow, that. Yeah, it's such. Was such a crazy story. And I think he was like, not expecting like me to be like, I love your work, but. And he was just like going up to his room at like 2 in the afternoon. But I was like, I'm such a fan. And I don't really talk about him on this podcast because I read a lot of his stuff before I ever started the show. So it just doesn't come up naturally. But I was so geeked, I got it back in my room and I was like, called my brother. I was like, oh, my God, I just met Eric. It's like so excited, like a real celebrity.

Ira Madison III (31:49)

Oh my God. And one last one. It just came to me. If your mom loves Devil and the Whites City. Actually, I was thinking, because I've just. I watched this, the TV series adaptation with Andrew Garfield recently. John Krakauer is Under the Banner of Heaven.

Tracy Thomas (32:04)

So good. John Krakauer is my A1. He's my real.

Ira Madison III (32:09)

We read Into Thin Air in high school.

Tracy Thomas (32:11)

Me too.

Ira Madison III (32:12)

After that. I feel like we all did like that era. Like everyone was reading that book. I was hooked. Like, I went to the store and then found on the Banner of Heaven. It's so good.

Tracy Thomas (32:22)

Yes.

Ira Madison III (32:22)

That is about. It's about murder. It's about the creation of like, like Church of Latter Day Saints. I think that is. If your mom loved Devil in the White City, she is going to love under the Banner of Heaven.

Tracy Thomas (32:33)

Do you. Have you ever read Patrick?

Ira Madison III (32:36)

No.

Tracy Thomas (32:37)

Okay. He wrote say Nothing. You know, that's like the show now.

Ira Madison III (32:40)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (32:40)

I always joke. I'm like, john Krakauer walked so Patrick Radden Keefe could run. Like, they're like. It's like his like father. It's like he birthed this like other investigative journalist who does the same thing. But yes, I.

Ira Madison III (32:52)

And that's the show about the troubles, right?

Tracy Thomas (32:54)

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Ira Madison III (32:55)

Okay. Yes, yes. I've been meaning to watch it, but I'll read the book first.

Tracy Thomas (32:59)

You. You could do it in either order. On. Honestly, it's like they're equally good. Okay, Rwanda, here are my suggestions. So I went with A Thousand Splendid Sons by Khalid Hosseni, which is like a mother daughter story, historical fiction. It's really beautiful. I read it with my mom. I remember buying it at Costco back when you would like Buy books at Costco. Another one I have is the Library book by Susan Orlean. It's about the 1986 Central Library fire in Los Angeles. And it does sort of similar things to Devil in the White City, where it, like, tells the story of the history, but it also tells, like, the history of LA and of library systems and all of that. And then my last one is sort of more of a wild card, but I was thinking about, like, Regency era romance, and this isn't Regency, but Kindred by Octavia Butler, which sort of has this, like, sci fi, but also there's like, a sort of a love story at the center. And I think it, to me, it's the easiest. Octavia Butler, like, as far as entry point. Like, if you're gonna start with Octavia Butler, I think that's a really good place to start. It's a little on the darker side. It is about, like, slavery and a woman who is, like, traveling back from the 1970s to antebellum. And I think it's really good. So Rwanda, if she reads any of those books, you have to report back to us. If anybody else wants a book recommendation, read on air. Email, Ask the Stacks atthestacks podcast.com. okay, Ira, now it's really your turn to talk about the books you love. Two books you love, one book you hate.

Ira Madison III (34:34)

Okay, two books I love. Well, I want to think of something that's not something that I mentioned. Like, something that's not gonna be, like, in the book because I. Because I specifically talk about hating, not about the bike. I hate that book. And I go into length about hating that book. So let me start with something I like first. You know what? I actually just rebought at Three Lives Bookstore here in New York near my apartment. I bought A Confederacy of Dunces.

Tracy Thomas (35:06)

Oh.

Ira Madison III (35:07)

And that book was very seminal to me growing up. So I am rereading it so that I can see if I still love it.

Tracy Thomas (35:17)

Okay. Okay. Okay. What's another one you love?

Ira Madison III (35:21)

Another one I love is Giovanni's Room. That's just, like, one of my favorite books. When I. Less Than Zero and Giovanni's Room are two books. That and Sex Dressing Cocoa Puffs by Chuck Losterman. Those are the three books that I reread the most. Okay, I'll probably reread.

Tracy Thomas (35:35)

How often are you rereading?

Ira Madison III (35:37)

I re. I will. I. I could take a break on Sex drugs now because I've done the book that was inspired by it. But I used to read that book like. Like, at least once, twice a Year, you know, just, like, just. Just cool to get myself in, like, the mind of, like. I knew that that was something that I wanted to do, you know? And Giovanni's Room, I probably read maybe, like, once every couple years, and I read less than zero, like, once a year, because it's an easy.

Tracy Thomas (36:01)

It's like a week less than zero.

Ira Madison III (36:03)

It's a. You can read that in a day.

Tracy Thomas (36:05)

Okay. Yeah, well, I'm a slow reader. Are you a fast reader? It sounds like you're a fast reader.

Ira Madison III (36:09)

I can be a slow reader, but that's a very fast read.

Tracy Thomas (36:12)

Okay. Okay. And do you want to add a book you hate, or do you want to stay with the bike one?

Ira Madison III (36:18)

You know what? I still just cannot get into the Catcher in the Rye.

Tracy Thomas (36:22)

Yeah, that's the most common answer for book you hate on this podcast. I hate it. Everybody hates.

Ira Madison III (36:26)

And I tried rereading it recently, too. And I did. I tried rereading it recently. I was at. I was at a bookstore, and I had. I had time to kill before I was going over to a friend's apartment. I'm like, I was early for once. Imagine that. But I was like, he lives. He lives, like, right by this bookstore, Rizzoli in Flatiron.

Tracy Thomas (36:50)

Oh, yeah.

Ira Madison III (36:51)

So I was in Rizzoli, like, perusing the aisles, and I see Catcher in the Rye there, and I started just like. I was like, you know what? I didn't like it in high school. Let me read it, and I start rereading it, and I really was, like, whipping through chapters of it, and I was like, I'm sick of this book. And I put it back, and I'm never gonna think about it again.

Tracy Thomas (37:12)

Holden. I'm sick of you. Wait, do you go to Rizzoli's often?

Ira Madison III (37:16)

I go to Rizzoli's every now and again. I feel like I went there a bunch of times this year.

Tracy Thomas (37:22)

I went to three lives for the first time when I was just in New York. So I didn't. I never even heard of it. I was like, this is lovely book. And they were very friendly. They knew everybody who walked in. They were like, oh, we just got this for you. Oh, you would love. I was like, I want you to be my neighborhood bookstore.

Ira Madison III (37:38)

No, they're my neighborhood bookstore. And I don't. I, like, really hadn't gone that much because I was obsessed with McNally Jackson. But I went in. That's where I got Confederacy of Dunces. And, you know, I sent them a nice little email about my book. No, because honestly, I went in. There are two people working behind the desk. And within, like, a minute of, like, me even going over to the aisles, like, one of them had, like, gotten from behind the desk was like, you know, like, can I help you? Like, looking for something? And I was like. I was like, well, this is. This is very sweet. I don't like to interact with people when I'm shopping. But I was like, this is very. This is very nice. Like, I felt very welcome there.

Tracy Thomas (38:16)

Yeah, I. I do. That's, like, one of the things I love most about indie bookstores. I usually do like to be left alone everywhere else. Like, if I'm at a clothing store, I'm like, why are you looking at me Like, I don't need your help? Do I look like I don't know what Lululemon leggings I want? I'm a woman on a mission. But when I go to. When I go to a bookstore, I'm sort of like, do you want to be friends?

Ira Madison III (38:34)

Yeah. I'm obsessed with three wives now, so, yeah, they're great.

Tracy Thomas (38:38)

They're great.

Ira Madison III (38:39)

Plus, as a writer, I feel like that. Isn't that, like a. It feels like very, like a New York, like, fantasy thing. Like, you need. You need, like, the bookstore place who knows you and, you know, you pop in and something. I'm living out this fantasy world now. Like, they point to someone. They're like, that's Ira. You know, he's over there. That's his book. Anyway, that's all I wanted in life.

Tracy Thomas (38:58)

That. I mean, that is sort of a fantasy. It's going to come true so soon for you. So exciting. Okay, what kind of. How would you say, like, what kind of reader you are?

Ira Madison III (39:11)

I'm an ADD reader, to be honest. I am. I'm a person who is usually reading, like, two or three books at once.

Tracy Thomas (39:19)

Okay.

Ira Madison III (39:19)

I don't know if always on the.

Tracy Thomas (39:20)

Page or do you do audio or Kindle or.

Ira Madison III (39:23)

I rarely do audio. Except for, like, memoir. Yeah, yeah. If it's like, a memoir or like, if it were, like. Like, like, I would listen to this book and maybe read it like my own, you know, but, like, yeah, you know, like, Barbara's, like, Mariah's, like, those. Like, I love, like, listening to, like, a celebrity memoir in audio.

Tracy Thomas (39:44)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ira Madison III (39:46)

But I feel like when I'm, like, going around New York, you know, it's like, I. I don't know. I'd rather, like, read stationary. It's. It would be. It's kind of hard for me to, like, walk and, like, listen to, like, an audiobook, you know, like, even when I'm listening to an audiobook, like, I do it. I'm sitting at home, or when I lived in la, like, I would drive in my car and listen to it. Yes. I. I, like, I feel like there's too much going on in New York to do anything besides listen to music on your headphones.

Tracy Thomas (40:11)

Yeah. I can do podcasts in New York, but not audiobooks. What's the last great book you read?

Ira Madison III (40:19)

Oh, well, I'm not finished with it yet, but I'm like, it's on your head. I'm reading Good Girl.

Tracy Thomas (40:26)

You're reading Good Girl?

Ira Madison III (40:28)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (40:28)

I'm wearing the Good Girl hat. They finally sent me cute merch. One of the publishers, and I was like, okay, I finally got a cute thing.

Ira Madison III (40:36)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (40:36)

Because they usually just send me, like, a sticker, and I'm like, I don't fucking want that. But this, like, dad hat Aria, Albert.

Ira Madison III (40:43)

I'm reading it because, I mean, I love techno music. Like, I'm always at, like, clubs here in New York. And so I'm, like, really loving this world that should create it here. And no, I found out that could be girl. It was being published by an imprint of Random House, where my book is. So whenever I see, like, a new book that I want and I find out it's from Random House too, like, I just send my editor or the publicist there an email, and I'm like, please send me that book, but with this one specifically, I said, and I'm gonna need that hat.

Tracy Thomas (41:12)

Did they send the hat?

Ira Madison III (41:13)

They sent the hat. What's funny is they had sent one out at first, and then they were like, like, oh, wait, we found the hat. So then they sent me another copy of the book with the hat. And I gave the first book they had sent to a friend who was really looking forward to reading it. But I was like, I need the hat.

Tracy Thomas (41:30)

The hat is really good. Some of the hats are stupid. But then, like, my husband has a lot of the hats that I don't want.

Ira Madison III (41:36)

I'm sad I don't have a hat. I'm like. My friends are like, where's the hat with the smiley face on?

Tracy Thomas (41:41)

I know. You should have a hat with a smiley face.

Advertiser (41:43)

Yeah.

Ira Madison III (41:43)

I'm mad, but it's all good.

Tracy Thomas (41:45)

Well, maybe they'll get. I feel like you should. It should be maroon with the hot pink.

Ira Madison III (41:51)

Yes.

Tracy Thomas (41:51)

Like the dark red with the hot pink. I would love it.

Ira Madison III (41:54)

From your ears to Random House.

Tracy Thomas (41:56)

Yeah. Okay, Random House. Test Test, can you hear me? I know they don't listen to this podcast over there, though, so sorry. If you're listening, also, buy an ad on this podcast while you're at it.

Ira Madison III (42:09)

I'll. I'll send them an email about that. Yeah, yeah.

Tracy Thomas (42:12)

Great, great, great. Okay. How do you. How do you decide what you're going to read next? Like, who are your trusted sources? What are your trusted sources?

Ira Madison III (42:22)

Honestly? My trusted sources are friends. To be honest, I feel like my friends who read especially, like, the New York Gay. New York gays who read, I feel like we sit and all tend to have sort of, like, similar tastes in literature. So honestly, I see a friend's Instagram with a book and I screenshot it and I add it to my list of things to read. That's how I've gotten a lot of my things. And then also there's some people that I trust, specifically my friend Mikey Friedman, who runs on Page Break. Yes, I've gone on Page Break, one of the trial ones last year. I'm excited to go again. I'm doing his show, Stage Break, like, his live one, soon. He's a very good friend, and so he always gives me book recommendations, too. So.

Tracy Thomas (43:11)

Yes.

Ira Madison III (43:12)

And he knows what I like, so he'll be like, read this.

Tracy Thomas (43:15)

I'm dying for him to do one in California. I keep being like, palm Springs would be really fun. He's talked about it.

Ira Madison III (43:22)

He's talked about it.

Tracy Thomas (43:23)

I know I gotta get back in his DMs about it. I was really in his ear last year because you introduced us online and we hit it off, and then I was like, come on on out. So maybe we need to do a stacks retreat or something with it.

Ira Madison III (43:34)

Figure it out. Yeah. He's a person who, like, knows my. Knows me, knows what I like. So when he tells me, you love this book, like, I jump on it.

Tracy Thomas (43:43)

I love that. That's so important to have those kind of people. What's a book that you always find yourself recommending to people?

Ira Madison III (43:50)

Always recommending. Well, I. Jazz. Honestly, with Toni Morrison, I'm always recommending it to people.

Tracy Thomas (43:58)

Or you love Jazz. We did it last year on the book. On the show, as our book. But because we do one Toni Morrison a year, and we did it last year, and I did not love it. I liked it.

Ira Madison III (44:09)

Okay.

Tracy Thomas (44:09)

I liked it. Like, I was into it. Why do you love Jazz?

Ira Madison III (44:13)

I just. I feel like the opening is just so strong. I don't know. Like, it just hooks me.

Tracy Thomas (44:18)

It's a perfect, perfect first page. Perfect first paragraph, perfect. First section. I mean, when I finished that, I literally went on Instagram and was like, you guys, the perfect opening of a book. I will give it that. It's an insanely good opening.

Ira Madison III (44:32)

Other book that I always recommend, too, is, like, Giovanni's Room is one of my favorites, but I'm always recommending actually another Country.

Tracy Thomas (44:39)

I've still never read it.

Ira Madison III (44:40)

It's very good. It's. It's. It's a bit long, but it's. You know, if you're. If you're a person who maybe enjoyed the new Bob Dylan movie, like a complete unknown, you know, or you like, that era of maybe Greenwich Village, like, that kind of like, 60s, you know, like New York. That's what the book is. It's about artists in that era in New York. And it's just like a. If that's a book that's messy, feels like Gossip is like a account of its time.

Tracy Thomas (45:13)

You lost me at Bob Dylan, but you brought me back with Gossip.

Ira Madison III (45:17)

I like Bob Dylan, but I like Timothee Chalamet, so.

Tracy Thomas (45:20)

Oh, okay. Well, I. The only thing I like less than Bob Dylan is Timothy. I'm like, I cannot. He is a no for me. I cannot get into him who's doing it like him. I mean, that's the problem. He needs to stop doing it like he's doing it and start doing it like other people. Like, I. I'm just, like, still deeply offended. Speaking of nostalgia, of him pretending to be Laurie and Little Women when Christian Bale did it so well in the 90s. I'm just like, you guys think that these are the same, okay? Little Women are the same.

Ira Madison III (45:54)

Okay?

Tracy Thomas (45:55)

Little Women, 90s. Little Women High. Okay, I am not. I am not. I'm anti. Greta's Little Women. Aggressively anti. It is not good. Nobody lives up.

Ira Madison III (46:06)

Okay, sorry.

Tracy Thomas (46:07)

Florence Pugh. I'm against all those people. To everyone in it. They're like, my least favorite actors now. I'm like, Florence Pugh, talentless hack.

Ira Madison III (46:14)

Wow. Oh, my God. These are. These.

Tracy Thomas (46:16)

Are. These.

Ira Madison III (46:17)

Are these take.

Tracy Thomas (46:18)

Yeah, how about keep it to Greta Gerwig's Little Women? Okay. What about. Do you still read horror? Are you still, like. Is that still genre you're into?

Ira Madison III (46:30)

I do actually still read horror. I like horror.

Tracy Thomas (46:33)

You do? Any favorites? Any. Any horror? I don't. I'm scared of horror. So I'm always curious about people who do read it.

Ira Madison III (46:40)

There's this book. This is a Stephen King novel, but he published it under a pseudonym, Richard Bachman, in 1977. It's called rage. It is.

Tracy Thomas (46:52)

Oh, and they're making it into a movie.

Ira Madison III (46:54)

I don't think so, because this book is never going to be printed. Oh, again, it was taken out of print, actually, because it's about a school shooting.

Tracy Thomas (47:04)

Oh, interesting.

Ira Madison III (47:05)

It's about someone who, like. It was about someone who, like, imagines, like, they take a gun, they shoot their teacher, and they take their class hostage. And it was written in 1997, and they were actually, like, when there were some school shoot. Smatterings of school shootings. Like, not, you know, Columbine era or, like, what we're used to now, but matters of those, like, in the set, late 70s, like, early 80s, like, a few of the school shooters, like, had that book, and so Stephen King actually, like, had it taken out of circulation. I literally had to search for it, because if you try and find it to buy on ebay, it's like $500 or something. Yeah. So I found a PDF of it online and read it, and it's.

Tracy Thomas (47:49)

Okay. Send it to me.

Ira Madison III (47:50)

I want to send it to you. Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (47:52)

Is it good?

Ira Madison III (47:53)

It's good. It's good. It's gripping.

Tracy Thomas (47:55)

Is it long?

Ira Madison III (47:56)

No, it's not long. You know, it's one of those, like.

Tracy Thomas (47:58)

One of his, like, a thousand.

Ira Madison III (47:59)

No, it's one of those, like. It's one of those, like. Like something. Like one of those, like, small. It's one of those classic, like, small.

Tracy Thomas (48:08)

Got it. Like a novella.

Ira Madison III (48:09)

Like the 70s. Those books that I feel like back in the day when people would have those, like, in their back pocket at school or something.

Tracy Thomas (48:18)

Okay, I love that. Okay, this is sort of our lightning round. What's the last book that made you laugh?

Ira Madison III (48:24)

The last book that made me laugh was Simon Riches, Glory Days.

Tracy Thomas (48:31)

Oh, I don't know that.

Ira Madison III (48:32)

Yeah, Came out last year.

Tracy Thomas (48:33)

Oh, nice. What's the last book that made you cry? Slash, do you cry when you read books?

Ira Madison III (48:39)

I don't know if I cry when I read books that much, but I was, like, getting emotional reading the dissolution of Hayley Motec's marriage. I read no Fault recently.

Tracy Thomas (48:52)

Oh, I have that. You liked it?

Ira Madison III (48:54)

Yeah, I liked it. I love Haley and that book sort of. It got to me. So. Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (48:59)

Okay. What's the last book that made you angry?

Ira Madison III (49:04)

Last book that made me angry. The guest. I was sick of her.

Tracy Thomas (49:11)

Okay. Okay. Okay. What's. What's the last book where you felt like you learned a lot?

Ira Madison III (49:18)

Land of Milk and Honey by Pam C. Zhang.

Tracy Thomas (49:20)

Oh, okay.

Ira Madison III (49:23)

I learned a lot about, like, food and like nature.

Tracy Thomas (49:28)

Yeah.

Advertiser (49:28)

Do you.

Tracy Thomas (49:29)

Do you read. You read a lot of fiction, it sounds like. And memoir. Do you read non fiction at all?

Ira Madison III (49:35)

I like, need to get back in my non fiction bag, but my non fiction bag is usually like. Like one of my recent ones I read was the. What is the name of it? It was the Ebert and Roper book. Opposable Thumbs. How Cisco and Ebert Changed Movies.

Tracy Thomas (49:51)

Yeah, that's funny.

Ira Madison III (49:53)

I read a lot of stuff like.

Tracy Thomas (49:54)

That that I see. I got it. What about a book that brings you joy?

Ira Madison III (50:02)

Jurassic Park. The book.

Tracy Thomas (50:04)

I've heard that's great. I've never read the book or seen the movie. I know you write about the movie.

Ira Madison III (50:09)

The movie. I love, love, love, love. But I remember, like, reading the book in high school and I enjoyed it. Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (50:16)

Yeah. What about a book you're embarrassed to have have liked?

Ira Madison III (50:22)

The Da Vinci Code. All of them.

Tracy Thomas (50:25)

I love. I love this.

Ira Madison III (50:27)

All of them.

Tracy Thomas (50:28)

Did you read Conclave?

Ira Madison III (50:30)

No, I didn't love the ending of the movie. And so now I'm like, oh, well.

Tracy Thomas (50:34)

It'S the same in the book.

Ira Madison III (50:35)

Okay. Yeah, that's right.

Tracy Thomas (50:37)

It's a very faithful adaptation. But the book feels slightly more like, melodramatic.

Ira Madison III (50:42)

Okay. It's like the gospel melodrama of the movie. And I, like, felt like the ending was just sort of like a thud.

Tracy Thomas (50:50)

Yeah, the book definitely is. Like, I felt like was a little campier than the movie. Like, I was sort of like. Like when I was reading the book, when I watched the movie, I was sort of like, oh, this is very serious. Like, they took a very serious approach to this. What about a book that you're embarrassed that you've never read?

Ira Madison III (51:12)

I have not read. It is on my shelf to read, but I honestly have never read any Edith Wharton.

Tracy Thomas (51:25)

Oh, me neither. I'm going to read the Custom of the country in February.

Ira Madison III (51:28)

Yes, you had suggested that I have it. I started it and then stopped for some reason. Not because I didn't like it. I was taking it on a vacation and I was reading it and ended up having to stop because when. Anyway, a friend recommended Custom of the country to me and I specifically love the Martin Scorsese film the Age of Innocence. And so I re like, I have both of those books and I plan to read them, but I have yet to read any Eda Ford.

Tracy Thomas (51:57)

I've never read her either. But I'm gonna read Custom of the country in February 2025. It's on my list. It's happening.

Ira Madison III (52:02)

Okay, great.

Tracy Thomas (52:04)

Yeah. Do you have a Favorite classic novel, Dracula. Ooh, I love Dracula.

Ira Madison III (52:10)

I love Dracula. There was a period where, I don't know if you remember this. There was a period on Tumblr where there was like this Dracula Tumblr where the book was like, being like Gen Z was reading it because it was being published every day, like a different page every day on Tumblr for like. Yeah. Until it finished. And so that, like, that how it got back in the zeitgeist again. Like, people online, like, love Dracula. It's a great book. Wow.

Tracy Thomas (52:37)

I've heard Frankenstein is also amazing.

Ira Madison III (52:40)

I've actually never read Frankenstein, so I.

Tracy Thomas (52:41)

Need to get into that either, but I've heard it's great. Okay. If you were going to be a high school English teacher, what is the book you would assign to your students?

Ira Madison III (52:52)

Maybe Invisible Man. Ralph Ellison, mostly because I've also never read that.

Tracy Thomas (52:57)

That's on my list for this year too.

Ira Madison III (52:59)

So it took me rereading it to love it. I have.

Tracy Thomas (53:01)

Okay.

Ira Madison III (53:02)

I had this like, hippie, sort of like a white teacher who was teaching us Invisible man in high school and it sort of turned me off the book.

Tracy Thomas (53:10)

Okay.

Ira Madison III (53:11)

And I feel like I would teach it differently, so.

Tracy Thomas (53:13)

Okay, that's fair. That's fair. I forgot to ask you. This is so important. It's gotta be on the record. How do you like to read? Like, where's your ideal place? Are there snacks and beverages? Is there music?

Ira Madison III (53:25)

I read.

Tracy Thomas (53:25)

Let's set the scene.

Ira Madison III (53:26)

I read on my couch.

Tracy Thomas (53:28)

Okay.

Ira Madison III (53:28)

My blue couch that I have in my living room. It's a very comfortable couch that I've had for almost. No, I've had it for like 10 years now.

Tracy Thomas (53:40)

Wow.

Ira Madison III (53:41)

I got it with my first job, like, first full time job ever, Buzzfeed, 10 years ago. And I've kept it. I think it's. I think it's gonna finally go when I. When I move again. Okay. Like, it's going to upgrade to like a bigger section or something. But I don't know, I like, just sit there. I'm a person who likes to. I'm either like sitting up, like on the couch like this with my backup, describing it to people sitting up with my backup. Or like, I will lay on my back and sort of like, read. But like always with the. With the light coming in from the window, like onto the book. Like, that's how I like to read. Like, with a nice little blanket. Now, I will say I will often fall asleep while reading like that too, because it's so comfortable. But it is my favorite Way to read.

Tracy Thomas (54:29)

Yeah. Do you have snacks and beverages that you like for reading?

Ira Madison III (54:32)

I mean, I usually have my ginger ale. I'm a Canada Dry ginger ale girl, so always some ginger ale with me.

Tracy Thomas (54:41)

You're the first person to ever, I think, say ginger ale for a special.

Ira Madison III (54:44)

I love ginger ale. Like, I don't know what it is about ginger ale. Like, I will sometimes you see me, like, with a drink, like, at the bar, you know, it's sometimes just a crisp ginger ale. I love ginger ale. It's refreshing to me. I drink ginger ale instead of water, to be honest.

Tracy Thomas (54:58)

Oh, my gosh. Wow.

Ira Madison III (55:00)

Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (55:01)

So you never have tummy aches?

Ira Madison III (55:02)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's from when. I think it's from, you know, when you're sick and, like, your parents are like, give you ginger. I'm like, I just love it.

Tracy Thomas (55:13)

Okay, last question. So, sadly for all of us, I stole this question from the New York Times. I've been doing it on every episode for seven years.

Ira Madison III (55:22)

They're easy.

Tracy Thomas (55:24)

But. Well, that's not even the bad part. Here's the bad part. The question is, if you could require the current president of the United States to read one book, who would you want it to be? And the reason it's bad is because you are my first official guest back in the Trump administration. We got out of it. When we started the show, we were in the Trump administration, and everybody. Nobody wanted to answer the question. It was like, can he read Whatever and not Biden? I was like, okay, we're getting some good answers again. And now I'm dreading having to do this again. So have at it.

Ira Madison III (55:59)

Hop on, Pop. Maybe, like. Maybe some Roald Dahl.

Tracy Thomas (56:13)

Sure.

Ira Madison III (56:14)

You know, like. Like the bfg. I think that would be a good book.

Tracy Thomas (56:18)

Great.

Ira Madison III (56:19)

Yes. Yes. Learn some kindness from the Big Friendly Giant.

Tracy Thomas (56:23)

We love this. We love this. Okay, everybody, Ira will be back on February 26th. We're going to be discussing Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov. Have you read it before?

Ira Madison III (56:37)

I have not read it before. Weirdly, I read Invitation to a Beheading, a book of his. Mostly because I think I was in high school. And I was like. I was feeling contrary, you know? So I was like, I'll read this as my first Nabokov book. It's good.

Tracy Thomas (56:57)

I've never done it.

Ira Madison III (56:58)

Yeah, I've never done it, so I'm sorry, but I never did Lolita. Yeah. I've seen the movie, though.

Tracy Thomas (57:02)

Really? February is Valentine's Day month, so I thought we'd just do a casual love.

Ira Madison III (57:06)

Story, the most romantic story ever told.

Tracy Thomas (57:09)

Yes, yes, totally. So, everybody, we're gonna read that book February 26th. Make sure you read with us and we can talk about at the end of the month together. Ira's book, as you're listening Pure innocent fun essays, is out in the world now. You can get it wherever you get your book. Ira reads the audiobook, if that's more your speed. And Ira, thank you so much for being here. This was a blast.

Ira Madison III (57:29)

Thank you. Yeah.

Tracy Thomas (57:30)

And everyone else, we will see you in the Stacks. All right, y'all, that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you again to Ira Madison III for joining the show. I'd also like to say a thank you to Vanessa DeJesus for helping to make this conversation possible. Don't forget the Stacks Book Club pick for February is Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov. And Ira Madison will be back to discuss the book with us on Wednesday, February 26th. If you love the show and you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com the stacks and join the Stacks Pack and check out my newsletter@tracy thomas.substack.com make sure you're subscribed to the Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you're listening through Apple Podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave us a rating and a review. For more from the Stacks, follow us on social media, Hestax, Pod, on Instagram, Threads and TikTok, and check out our website@thestackspodcast.com this episode of the Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Megan Caballero. Our graphic designer is Robin McCrite, and our theme music is from Tagirajis. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Tracy Thomas.