Ep. 379 I Gotta Keep Something Nasty with Mandii B & WeezyWTF

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Stacks – Ep. 379 "I Gotta Keep Something Nasty" with Mandii B & WeezyWTF

Release Date: July 9, 2025

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Introduction to Guests and Their New Book

In Episode 379 of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas welcomes Mandii B and WeezyWTF, the dynamic co-hosts of the popular Decisions Decisions podcast, who are also embarking on their journey as authors. They introduce their latest work, "No Holes Barred: A Dual Manifesto of Sexual Exploration and Power," a book that intertwines erotica with self-help, offering raw and honest narratives about sexual adventures and the lessons learned along the way.

Traci Thomas emphasizes the book's unique blend:

"It's hilarious, sometimes painfully honest, and full of the sexcapades you've come to know from Mandy and Wheezy." [02:07]

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Choosing the Book Title and Cover Design

The conversation delves into the challenges of titling the book. Originally named Horrible Decisions, the authors faced pressure from publishers to rebrand. Wheezy expresses her reluctance to tie the book permanently to a restrictive term:

"That wasn't an option for me. I wasn't gonna write a book and ingrain horror on it for the rest of my life." [04:38]

Mandii and Wheezy discuss the symbolism behind the final title and cover design, highlighting how elements like zippers and lips convey both secrecy and sexuality without being overtly explicit.

Mandii B shares her perspective on the cover’s reception:

"I'm like, oh, I'm the sex girl. You read it." [05:19]

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Balancing Erotica and Self-Help

Traci praises the book’s structure, which seamlessly integrates graphic sexual content with practical self-help advice. This approach provides a nuanced exploration of sexuality, ensuring the content is both engaging and educational.

Traci Thomas observes:

"There's chapters where you're describing, like, really hot sex, and then you're like, here's some lessons about protection." [12:07]

Mandii emphasizes that the book avoids being preachy by sharing personal stories and experiences rather than presenting rigid solutions:

"We haven't come off as preachy. Because we've been fucking up in this book." [13:06]

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Navigating Vulnerability and Parasocial Relationships

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the vulnerability involved in transitioning from podcasting to authoring a book. The guests reflect on how committing personal stories to paper feels different from the transient nature of podcast episodes.

WheezyWTF shares her approach to writing:

"I was like, who I am right now wasn't who I was yesterday, ain't gonna be who I am tomorrow." [17:15]

Mandii discusses the emotional labor of writing intimate chapters and the fear of broader public reception:

"We joke that we have 28 white listeners. I'm sure it's 28,000 white listeners, but we joke about them being 28 because they're not the ones I see stopping me in the street as much." [21:05]

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Addressing Sexual Identity and Community Gatekeeping

The authors open up about their sexual identities and the challenges of labeling within the LGBTQ+ community. WheezyWTF recounts an experience with an editor who challenged her bisexual identity, leading her to define herself more comprehensively in the book:

"I am a queer, bisexual, arosexual, hetero, romantic, cis hetero woman." [39:33]

Mandii shares personal anecdotes about facing prejudice and gatekeeping, both from men and within the queer community itself:

"It's very hard to be out and proud as someone who's non-monogamous. There's a lot of judgment there." [43:42]

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Impact of Political Climate on Personal Narratives

Traci prompts the guests to discuss how current political and social climates influence their willingness to share personal stories, especially concerning sensitive topics like abortion and sexual assault.

WheezyWTF emphasizes the importance of being honest despite potential backlash:

"There was no way in hell with the current climate I wasn't gonna include my abortion story." [46:46]

Mandii highlights how external prejudices, particularly towards non-monogamous relationships, shape their narrative and the reception of their work:

"The general public doesn't think my relationship is real because I'm in an open one." [45:25]

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Writing Process and Collaboration with Tempest X

The duo discusses their collaborative process with co-author Tempest X, who aided in structuring their narratives and ensuring coherence across chapters. Wheezy details their structured writing sessions:

"Tempest would come over, and we did four-hour blocks... she would talk me through chronologically how I wanted to narrate the story." [54:22]

Mandii contrasts her spontaneous writing style with Wheezy’s more organized approach, illustrating how their differences complemented each other in the creation of the book.

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Favorite Chapters and Themes

Traci asks the authors to highlight their favorite chapters, showcasing the emotional depth and diverse themes covered in the book.

WeezyWTF mentions the abortion chapter and her Dom chapter as particularly impactful:

"The abortion chapter... I was like, oh, bitch, this sounds terrible. It's... something I needed to confront." [57:31]

Mandii B appreciates how the book addresses shame and empowerment, especially in discussing consensual non-consensual sex and personal growth:

"Seeing where your shame pops up is really interesting... it's about growth." [31:13]

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Influential Figures and Desired Readership

When asked who they wish could read their book, Weezy expresses admiration for bell hooks and Marilyn Monroe, hoping that these icons would find empowerment in their narratives.

Mandii reflects on influential authors and figures who have inspired them, emphasizing the importance of diverse representation in literature:

"If any one of them could read it, I would want to know what they thought of how those sexual stories were told." [61:37]

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Concluding Thoughts and Final Remarks

As the episode wraps up, Traci encourages listeners to engage with the book and join The Stacks community through Patreon and Substack for additional content and discussions. The guests express their gratitude for the opportunity to share their stories and the hard work that went into bringing their book to fruition.

Mandii B concludes with a powerful message on the importance of friendship and community in personal growth:

"We really do need friendship in order to get over and shit... What woman can openly say this without being scared that it'll be held against her?" [50:20]

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Key Takeaways

• "No Holes Barred" uniquely combines erotica with self-help, offering candid narratives that empower women to explore their sexuality while providing practical advice.
• Vulnerability in authoring a book contrasts with the ephemeral nature of podcasting, presenting new challenges in public perception and personal exposure.
• Sexual identity and community gatekeeping are critical themes, with the authors advocating for a broader and more inclusive understanding of queer identities.
• Political and social climates significantly impact the way personal stories are shared and received, especially concerning topics like abortion and sexual assault.
• Collaboration with Tempest X was instrumental in structuring the book, ensuring that both authors' voices and experiences were cohesively presented.
• Favorite chapters reveal the depth of personal growth and the complex interplay between pleasure and pain in the journey of sexual exploration.
• Influential figures such as bell hooks and Marilyn Monroe are highlighted as ideal readers who could resonate with and be empowered by the book's narratives.

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Notable Quotes

• Mandii B on the necessity of friendship in overcoming personal struggles:

  "We really do need friendship in order to get over and shit." [50:20]

• WheezyWTF addressing the challenge of maintaining authenticity in her writing:

  "I fucking hate how this reads. It was like three words, period. Four words, period." [55:26]

• Traci Thomas reflecting on cultural perceptions of effort and vulnerability:

  "Trying hard or caring is embarrassing or cringe." [27:10]

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Listen to Episode 379 of The Stacks to delve deeper into Mandii B and WeezyWTF’s transformative journey through their groundbreaking book, No Holes Barred.

Transcript

[Tracy Thomas]

New York is a big city and finding the perfect hotel to stay in can be intimidating at best. But friends, let me tell you about Kicksby. Kicksby is a luxury boutique hotel steps away from quintessential New York City sites such as the Empire States Building, Times Square, Madison Square Garden and Penn Station. I just stayed there for a week with the mini stacks and we had the best time. It is close to so many subway stops and so many fun things to do with kids. But makes this hotel really stand out is their brand new loyalty program. It's called the Kicksby Book Club. Yes, that's right. A hotel with a book club program. Once a member, you can visit their lending library and check out books during your stay. They even offer book club members exclusive perks such as discounts, VIP gifts, and more. The best part is a portion of Kicksby Book Club proceeds go straight to the New York City Public Library. If you're interested in joining the program, visit the Kicksby hotel website at www.kicksby.com kicksby book club for more, that's k-I x b-y.com kicksbybookclub it really shows you.

[Mandy B]

How the journey is not alone. Like, we really do need friendship in order to get over and shit. Get under someone. Yeah. I talk about the devil on your shoulder and the angel on your shoulder. Like, we need that friend to champion us, to help us, you know, get through what we may be confused about within ourselves. Because a lot of times when we're meeting women, we were the first time they had a friend that could hold their hand and say, yes, do it. Yeah. And there is so much shame around exploring yourself. Imagine a woman coming to her husband and say, I think I want to fuck someone else. We hear it on the other end, right? When is a woman supposed to take power? We're just supposed to say, oh cool, you want us to go to a sex club. Finally, I'll get my chance. What woman can openly say this without being scared that it'll be held against her? Right. That's where this book really gave people, I think, some power. Foreign.

[Tracy Thomas]

Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Tracy Thomas, and today I am joined by the co hosts of the Decisions Decisions podcast, Mandy B. And Wheezy. Wtf? Not only are they fabulous podcast hosts, but now they have taken the leap to becoming authors. They've got a brand new book called no Holes Barred, a dual manifesto of sexual exploration and power. The book is hilarious, sometimes painfully honest and full of the sexcapades you've come to know from Mandy and Wheezy. We talked today about their differing personalities and approaches to writing, which parts of the book came easy to them and which parts were a little more difficult, and the challenge of committing thoughts and feelings to paper when you're used to talking into a microphone. Today's episode is a really fun one. Quick reminder. Everything we talk about on each episode of the Stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. And if you love this podcast, if you want side access to it, you want bonus episodes, you want hot takes, you want reading challenges and a bookish community. I've got two places for you to get more stacks. You can go to patreon.com the stacks to join the stacks pack. And you can check out my newsletter at Tracy Thomas substack.com All right, now it's time for my conversation with Wheezy and Mandy. Hi, everybody. I am here today with two author guests. I am joined by the women of Decisions, Decisions, Formerly horrible decisions. Mandy B. Yeah, we're not on film. We're in their beautiful studio, and there's cameras, and they're, like, performing for the camera, but you don't have to.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Wheezy]

I love this.

[Tracy Thomas]

Doesn't go anywhere, but let me say your names. Mandy Bee. Wheezywtf. Ladies, welcome to the snacks.

[Wheezy]

Oh, my God. Thank you for having us.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm so excited.

[Wheezy]

I'm excited, too, to have this conversation.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, so let me say the full name of the book so that I don't forget. It's called no Holes Barred. A Dual Manifesto of Sexual Exploration and Power. Yes. Let's start with the title.

[Wheezy]

Oh, the title. The title.

[Mandy B]

Well, wait, you tell us when you saw the title.

[Wheezy]

Yeah. What did you think?

[Mandy B]

Because you just. You read so many books, and when we were first, you know, knew we were writing a book, I was actually going into stores and, like, ooh, taking pictures of covers. Okay. But titles are also screaming at me too. And it was tough because we were called Horrible Decisions at the time. So I'm like, put horror on it. But, you know, that doesn't necessarily.

[Tracy Thomas]

The publisher said no to that. I know that.

[Wheezy]

That wasn't an option for me. I wasn't gonna write a book and ingrain horror on it for the. For the rest of my life.

[Tracy Thomas]

The publishers won't let you.

[Wheezy]

Oh.

[Tracy Thomas]

They basically will be like, you can't have a swear word. You can't. Because they don't, because they know Barnes and Noble isn't gonna put it on the table in the front of the store.

[Wheezy]

It won't be anywhere.

[Mandy B]

Nobody was.

[Tracy Thomas]

What about the holes? The holes is fine. I think holes is fine. I mean, I think your cover says a lot. I think the zipper is doing a lot of visual work, don't you think?

[Wheezy]

Really?

[Mandy B]

I do, too. Because here's the thing. I see lips.

[Tracy Thomas]

Sure.

[Mandy B]

I see lips for the first time. One of my homegirls gets the book. She goes, oh, my God, I love this. It's like zipping your lips for a secret, but also unzipping your pants.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, okay. Well, I see lips, obviously, but also vagina.

[Mandy B]

I don't see vagina.

[Wheezy]

You see vagina?

[Tracy Thomas]

You guys don't see vagina?

[Mandy B]

Are you fucking kidding me?

[Wheezy]

And we. I see a lot of things.

[Mandy B]

Okay.

[Wheezy]

Kind of like this.

[Tracy Thomas]

Do you see vagina now?

[Mandy B]

Yeah, but we ain't reading like that, Tracy.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. Okay, here's the thing. Let me as a person again, who reads a lot of books.

[Mandy B]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

And I look at. I think about books very seriously. I know who you two are. And I think most people who read your book will know who you are. At least your first batch of readers. Those are gonna be the people who are gonna go in the world and be like, I read Mandy and Weezy's book. Like, I loved it. I loved the show. You know, it was so great. You have to read this. And then their friend will be like, I don't know who they are. Like, oh, my God, just read it. You'll love it. Those people are also seeing vagina because you guys talk about vagina. Like, this is.

[Wheezy]

What is he D. You see lips, right?

[Mandy B]

We're not nasty. And you know what?

[Wheezy]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. Very important.

[Mandy B]

Look at you.

[Wheezy]

You're so horny.

[Tracy Thomas]

I said no. Okay?

[Mandy B]

I mean, in her defense, maybe people aren't. I'm not asking, but my friend said.

[Tracy Thomas]

It, but I think that the pink with the red. There are other book. There's a book called Tampa.

[Mandy B]

Pull up the COVID Tampa's my favorite book ever.

[Tracy Thomas]

And it has a similar favorite erotica. It has a similar. Though isn't. Tampa has, like, a slit in the.

[Mandy B]

Middle and there's a button.

[Tracy Thomas]

Is there a button? I just. I'm thinking of, like, it's, like, tan with, like, light pink with, like, red.

[Mandy B]

It's a phenomenal book because. And by the way, I shouldn't be saying that about any book right now. Right? I'm supposed to act like everything sucks. Like, we never read David and Goliath. Like, I've never read a good book. But Tampa really got me to the place where I was like, oh, I was so Zane Brain growing up. I don't know if I'd ever read White Erotica.

[Tracy Thomas]

I've never read Tampa. I just feel like the COVID reminds me of it. It's vertical, and this is horizontal. But I feel like I. I feel like there's.

[Wheezy]

I'm literally trying to look at the other, like, cover options that we had the process of selecting a cover. Right. Like, I know Weezy wanted fruits at one point, and we had, like, these fruits, and they put, like, the pixelations over it. And to me, I was like, this is too on the nose of sex.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Wheezy]

Like, there was one with a peach. There was a leaking strawberry, and I was like, it's the last. A cream pied strawberry.

[Mandy B]

I already felt. I was like, so something's been happening in our rebrand, if you've never heard of us. But we were formerly known as the Horrible Decisions podcast for almost eight years.

[Tracy Thomas]

And horrible spelled W H O R R e. Yeah.

[Mandy B]

So when we became Decisions Decisions, it was intentional because of the book. This book is on Charlamagne, the God's imprint, and we are also on his podcast network. And I just know he's been known as being so unapologetic that. Okay, we're taking horror away. Well, now I want a more suggestive cover. And it was really difficult for me because I would say I was 15% on board with the name change. 15%.

[Tracy Thomas]

But also, how on board were you?

[Wheezy]

Oh, 110.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Mandy B]

And this was the first time where we had. The book is exciting to me, but the name change wasn't exciting to me because I was. I'm very scared of the reaction. I've been doing something great that my followers love. I don't give a fuck if, you know, it's not as large as a Joe Rogan, but I know my fans love this thing.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Mandy B]

So it was like starting a new baby.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right. Right.

[Mandy B]

And that's why I was like, well, I gotta keep something nasty. So knowing you see a vagina, Tracy.

[Tracy Thomas]

I do.

[Mandy B]

Warms my heart.

[Tracy Thomas]

I do. I don't think it takes.

[Mandy B]

I don't think it takes too big.

[Tracy Thomas]

Of a leap of imagination to see a slit.

[Wheezy]

I would say crazy, because the COVID for us was intentional a not having our faces on it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Sure.

[Wheezy]

Because we didn't want people to be like, I don't know these bitches. So I'm not picking up the book.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Wheezy]

Which is what happens when I see people on books.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's true.

[Wheezy]

If I don't know you, I don't care to read.

[Tracy Thomas]

Unless you're extremely famous.

[Wheezy]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

I don't think you need to put.

[Wheezy]

Your face on it. I don't think you need to put your face on it. And then for me, maybe spending the last 13 years in New York, I see people on the train reading books, and there's so many times that we hear, like, people have to hide their phones at work because of our cover art. Or like, they, you know, they're like, I listen to this pod, but they don't say the name because it's horrible decisions. So for me, I wanted people to feel comfortable even just reading our book in public where it wasn't.

[Mandy B]

I feel like this book is suggestive, though.

[Tracy Thomas]

I mean, inside the book or the.

[Mandy B]

COVID The COVID I think it's still, like, if I saw suggestive, but it's not a leaking.

[Wheezy]

Cream pied. Strawberries.

[Mandy B]

It was not a cream pie.

[Wheezy]

I'm gonna look.

[Mandy B]

See? Not glazed.

[Wheezy]

It was a glazed strawberry.

[Mandy B]

But we're here now, so.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I think. I think that this accomplishes what you want it to accomplish. I think it says. It definitely says women because it's the pink and red. It definitely says, like, secrets.

[Wheezy]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

Whether it's lip sealed, pants unzipping, or perhaps a vagina, it's suggestive. But it also doesn't say, talk about me as I'm sitting on the subway. Or like, point to your friend and be like, do you see what they're reading? It's not embarrassing for the reader. We totally jumped into this. But usually I ask guests to start by just telling the audience in about 30 seconds or so. What your book is, is we sort of already kind of leaned in, but if you want to give them, like, sort of your elevator pitch just so folks know.

[Mandy B]

Fun thing to ask, Tracy, because your pod is the one that I'm the most scared to do this on. Why we've been podcasting so long, Everybody we're sitting down with a pod. Is a podcaster thinking that we're podcasters. So they just got to touch on the book. You're the person that gets it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, yeah. I got to do the whole book.

[Mandy B]

Yeah. And I read it. So I've been calling no holes, barred erotica and self help. This is a book that kind of holds the mirror up to your face when you're hearing some stories about trauma and healing or maybe, you know, feelings of needing validity from sex. But at the same time, it's that feeling you get when you read a Book where you're like, oh, my God, I might need to put this down and go do something. I've read books that make me want to start swiping because I get a little hot. And this book is that it is not that mommy porn that I think that 50 Shades of Grey was. This is real deal women that are living these sexual lives that we've been watching in movies. Except it's true. You don't need to watch the podcast. You don't need to know who we are. You will connect with both.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I think that's right. I think what I really appreciated about the balance in the book was that a lot of times in books like this where it's got the self help and then the memoir, they're sort of separated. And. And in this case, first of all, I've never read anything where it's like, sex. Like, so, like, graphic sex and self help, not. Not together, not in, like, not in nonfiction. Okay, so like, in a romance novel. Right. Or something like that. Like, y. Or even in a book that's, like, recounting trauma. Like a memoir about trauma, but something like this where you're sort of mixing the sexual pleasure with the trauma or, like, with the lessons. I thought that was really interesting because there's chapters where you're describing, like, really hot sex, and then you're like, here's some lessons about, like, protection. Or, like, here's like, you know, in your chapter about bdsm, where it's like, here's this, like, insane sex scene, but also, like, this is how a safe word works. Like, these are things you should be looking for if you're ready to try this. Like, here's three things you should be thinking about as opposed to a lot of books where it's like, here's where I had sex, chapter one. Chapter two, here's what I learned about sex. Chapter three, here's where you know. So I like that in the chapters, it was sort of all mixed. I thought that was pretty cool.

[Mandy B]

I appreciate that you liked it because we haven't had this book come out yet, and I saw someone that got an arc of it, like, well, it doesn't need to be self help. And I'm like, okay, to me, this isn't black and white. Here's how you get over xyz.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

But I'm gonna tell you, my ex crushed me.

[Wheezy]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And these are red flags. I should have noticed.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

I don't think we came off as preachy.

[Tracy Thomas]

I don't think so.

[Mandy B]

There's no way. Because we've been fucking up in this book.

[Tracy Thomas]

No, I don't. I don't think you guys come off as preachy. I do. I mean, I understand that also as a response, because I think sometimes people feel like they have to do self help, like that. All that, like, people like us who sort of talk into a microphone and like, talk about life can do is self in, like, a book. I think that often happens where it's like, people come to you, to your show to hear you talk and like, to get advice or to think about things. And so there's an expectation that that's what you will do. So I understand that reader saying that, but I think you guys balanced it well between sharing your stories and your experiences and then the advice that you had without being like, this is the answer to a happy life. Like, I didn't come off like that.

[Wheezy]

Yeah, I was gonna say too, like, be quote, unquote, advice was also given as a take it or leave it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Wheezy]

Like, it's not like, this is the way to get here. Like, these are things you can or. Or don't have to implement.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Wheezy]

But these are things based on our stories and our experience we think would help.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I think that's. I think that's what came off.

[Wheezy]

Okay, good.

[Tracy Thomas]

So here's my big question for you, which is sort of.

[Wheezy]

I feel like all these questions are big, Tracy.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, you think?

[Wheezy]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. Well, I'm just getting started, so I'm just gearing up.

[Wheezy]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

I. I always tell people. People like, oh, you. You, like, ask such good questions. I'm like. I'm just really nosy. And so as I'm reading, I'm just writing down, like, I want to know more about that.

[Mandy B]

You have reader girl vibe, though.

[Tracy Thomas]

I am a reader girl.

[Mandy B]

I only have two really smart friends. Sorry. It's true.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. And sorry to everybody else, the two of you.

[Mandy B]

You know, when I say really smart, I mean, they're knocking out a book in a night. To me, you have to have a certain level of intelligence to be able to retain that much. Maybe we could all do that. Maybe we could all read and. But will it be intentional? Or are we, like. Right, right. These bitches have the same vibe, Tracy. And they always, like, try to preface me with something. When I read this wheezy. I haven't even asked you. When I listened to podcasts, I took a moment to think, and I'm like, fuck, I want to be that girl.

[Tracy Thomas]

You are.

[Mandy B]

Show me the way.

[Tracy Thomas]

I think you can. I'm no, no.

[Mandy B]

I'm the sex girl. You read it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Well, what'd you say?

[Mandy B]

I'm the sex girl.

[Tracy Thomas]

You read it. I read it. But you're smart. I thought your chapters were really good. I mean, I have to be honest. Like, going in, I was like, what the fuck am I right? Like, I was like, why did they write a book? And then I was like, no, this is like, I get it. Like, I was like, they actually had, like. You guys actually had some things to say. But here's my big question. Don't get me off track. I want to know about the sort of parasocial relationship vulnerability situation. Because when you do a podcast, I don't know if maybe you guys don't feel this way, but when I do my show, I say a lot of things into the microphone, and I sort of forget about them. And I know, like, there'll be another episode the next week and the next week. And I've been doing this for seven years, and so there's, you know, almost 400 episodes. And, you know, if I said something stupid two years ago, nobody's gonna hear it.

[Wheezy]

Right.

[Tracy Thomas]

But in a book sort of committing things to paper, you're committing things to the record in a sort of different way. And I'm wondering, knowing that you have this audience who comes to you, who thinks about you, who knows about you reading something like this, which feels, I think, more vulnerable than the show.

[Wheezy]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

How you all were thinking about that, how it felt as you were writing things down. There's certain chapters where you each call out like, this was the hardest chapter for me to write. Or, you know, you talk about having sex for money, you talk about sexual assault, you talk about, you know, abortion. And there's all these really personal things that I think you've mentioned in the show, but having them sort of concentrated. What was that part like for you?

[Wheezy]

Ooh, it was tough. So first off, I'm glad that we took the time that we did to write this book.

[Tracy Thomas]

How long did it take?

[Wheezy]

Well, it got brought to us to do it back in 2021.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Wheezy]

We got on the same page about it. Maybe not till 2023.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Wheezy]

And then we locked in our writer, Tempest X, to help us construct what you co author, what you see. And then I think about a year writing it. Maybe a little over a year. And so what the book was, from the proposal to this, almost night and day. But also I was in a relationship with the ex.

[Tracy Thomas]

Got it.

[Wheezy]

That I referred to throughout the book. And there were whole chapters about Me loving him. And so there's a huge weight lifted that that relationship ended and that relationship wasn't cemented in this book as such a great thing. So I am proud about that. But for me, I think what's been dope about our parasocial relationship with our listeners, with potentially the new people reading this book, is we're admitting that we are humans. So guess what? This happened to me. Who fucking cares? I've learned from it. I've moved on. So if anyone's gonna judge or make any sort of comments about what my experience is, there's nothing that I have to respond to like that. So for me, I say it all the time. Who I am right now wasn't who I was yesterday, ain't gonna be who I am tomorrow. And so I say it about the podcast as well. If you go back to the beginning, we've been doing our podcast for now eight years.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Wheezy]

So if you go back eight years, I don't agree with a lot of the shit I said.

[Mandy B]

I said so many dumb things.

[Wheezy]

So many dumb things. And so I don't mind people's thoughts about what my life experience has been, whether they like it, whether they don't like it, whether they're like, ooh, this bitch is crazy. Ooh, I'm gonna judge her. I don't. I don't have any thoughts about that. Really?

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. How about you?

[Mandy B]

I would say that the vulnerability for me looks different because when I'm podcasting, it's like you mentioned earlier, they're performing for the camera. I, for one, I've made the comment that while podcasting, I'm able to say crazier things because I don't see the hundreds of thousands of people watching.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

With the book, it was a little bit easier than I thought it would be because. Not that some of the chapters weren't hard. I'm sure you read that crazy assault story. It was slightly easier than I thought it would be because I was writing alone and it felt like journaling. The hardest part was the publisher talking about it with me. So I was writing the chapters, and we have a co author. I cut Mandy off when she said writer because I really want people to understand I wrote what I said, and it was important for me to know that because every celebrity that writes a book speaks about it, and then it's translated. Our co author, Tempest X, is so dope. We really wanted to get a black woman to write this book with us, and it was more so about having someone connect the dots. We're great storytellers, but can we format this right?

[Tracy Thomas]

So, like, helping with the structure, Sort of like how it would. How it would move the sections, being.

[Mandy B]

Able to take a story that I wrote and make it more legible. Cause, you know, I'm getting emotional while reading and writing it, and. And when she hears this, I want her to know how grateful I am. But sometimes when you say writer, I've cut you off because I know how many times I've written a book and thought, okay, well, did she write this?

[Tracy Thomas]

I see.

[Mandy B]

And so I think for us as podcasters, the credibility can be lost knowing there is another name on that page. But I wrote what I said, and Tempest X held it down and made it that book that it is.

[Tracy Thomas]

Got it.

[Mandy B]

Now, when it comes to the vulnerability, it was just her and I when getting to talk about what I wrote. And it felt so beautiful because it was sisterhood.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Mandy B]

It didn't really feel difficult at all. Now when Simon and Schuster came back and I saw red lines through things that were difficult to say. Or for example, I remember one story in particular. It was something about my ex girlfriend. Like, I wasn't showing I loved her enough, and I'm like, huh? Or just like even little etches between talking about sex or something being redundant, like me talking about eating pussy. Well, that's what we do. Okay? That's our thing. Things like that. That was harder. But we also haven't gotten the hardest part yet, which is the book being out into the world.

[Tracy Thomas]

Are you worried about what people think about the book? Like, what about that feels like the hardest part to you?

[Mandy B]

I'm so well liked in life, in podcasting, people that don't fuck with us are small, you know, they know we're doing something great. For the most part, our audience, they'll put us in check when we do something wrong, but they give us a hug. I am scared for the people that aren't my audience.

[Tracy Thomas]

I see.

[Mandy B]

You know, when people ask us if we're scared to go on stage on a tour, it's like, these are our girls. Yeah, I ain't met you, but you my dog. Like, you've been listening to my show how many years? You know me, right? The mom that picks that up in the airport at Hudson News because she left her other book at home or she's in the mood for something new. She hates it. I don't know how I'll feel.

[Wheezy]

But will you?

[Tracy Thomas]

Do you think that you'll care? Like, if you hear from that mom and she's Like, I hated your book. You suck. Like, do you think that would impact you or do you think that, like. Like, if someone listens to your podcast and is like, this isn't for me. Yeah. Does that affect you?

[Mandy B]

No, but I think the reason the book will is because I feel like that book is so important.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Mandy B]

The way that we talk about sex connected with so many people, and we've lasted so long and quit our day jobs and did all this shit because they get it. The raw talk about sex is not appreciated because patriarchal bullshit like we talk about in the quotes, it's made us think. Everyone that does that is a hoe. We can't trust hoes. We can't trust women that are raunchy. And so the book, to me, is a little bit of a coverup about how dirty some of those stories get. And I'm scared somebody will read that erotica and think, well, I'm not gonna trust her now. I'm very fearful of that. And I think it's because podcasting seems like a safe space, whereas a book is memorialized for someone to go over, circle it, hand it, you know, put it to a friend. And I don't know, but it's black girls that I've been talking to for eight years, and now I'm opening myself up to the rest of the world. We joke that we have 28 white listeners. I'm sure it's 28,000 white listeners, but we joke about them being 28 because they're not the ones I see stopping me in the street as much.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right, right.

[Mandy B]

But I know this book will go further than who I'm used to speaking to.

[Wheezy]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And I really do feel safe in my own black little world. But this book is Black Girl but also woman.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, for sure. No, I get it. A lot of people don't talk about, like, candidly, at least with me, about being scared about their book going into the world. I think also. Cause a lot of people I talk to are authors and writers. That's their first job. And so they are. It's a different kind of feeling. Like, they either don't have an audience and it's their first book and they're building it, or they are known for books, and so there isn't that same, like, transition. So I'm very fascinated by you saying that you're nervous about it or that that's, like, the big one.

[Wheezy]

Well, we had two. Like, the first two reviews that we were able to see were from non listeners, and the reviews weren't Great. And it was. It stung a little bit, but it's kind of like what we know. Like, if you don't know us, do you relate to it? Do you. Like, there was a white woman who thought it was bashing. And I was like, I fought three.

[Mandy B]

White guys in this book. I just want to say that.

[Wheezy]

Yeah, the rich one, the dumb one.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. You had an Australian, you had a British, you had all over the place.

[Wheezy]

So it was confusing to see that. For me, it stung a little bit. But I understand now. Musicians who work on albums and songs that mean so much to them, and then people just come out immediately.

[Mandy B]

And those were two reviews, Tracy.

[Tracy Thomas]

I know. Well, you always have to stop reading the reviews. Has anyone told you this yet?

[Mandy B]

Well, no.

[Wheezy]

Well, they sent us the link. It was like, here you go, guys. Here's your Goodreads.

[Tracy Thomas]

Were they on Goodreads?

[Wheezy]

On Goodreads.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay, I'm a professional.

[Wheezy]

Tell us about Goodreads.

[Mandy B]

Do not let her out right now.

[Tracy Thomas]

Do not. Do not read the reviews.

[Wheezy]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

Don't do it. Unless you genuinely think that you are gonna get information from strangers on the Internet about what you could do better for your next book. Because this one's done.

[Wheezy]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

Why would you do that to yourself?

[Wheezy]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

If you want to talk to your friends or people that you know and respect, if you have other authors or writer people that you know that you genuinely want feedback from, that's one thing.

[Wheezy]

I mean, but it's so different than. And I guess maybe because. Well, I'm saying it's. It's no different than us reading the comments for our podcast every month. There's YouTube, there's Instagram, and you get read comments.

[Mandy B]

That person doesn't know me. Is that the honest, true answer?

[Wheezy]

Oh, I don't believe that anyone's opinion is honest.

[Mandy B]

But no, that's where you go. It's like if someone can be anon. You know, And I appreciate you saying people don't tell you about being scared, because while I was answering that, being so vulnerable while we're on this book, on this press tour trying to sell it, I really do believe what I put out to the world. We wouldn't have put this book out if we thought it was shit. The book even took more time for one of my chapters, in particular, the suicide chapter. I hate calling it that, but it is that chapter. We were supposed to have a deadline. Something else was supposed to come out. I think it was July. Oh, it went to maybe September because my chapter wasn't it. And that story Wasn't even told until the last date. I just realized I had to dig deeper. I really am proud of what I wrote. However, the fear, I think, is normal. You know, I work with Hollywood execs all the time in LA for TV and movie shit. They be scared as fuck.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

You know, I just heard one of my favorite actors say they are scared every time they go on set. And I'm like, what?

[Tracy Thomas]

I am. I have really bad performance anxiety. I'm scared before every episode I podcast. I used to be a dancer before every time I went on stage, I was an actress. I used to teach fitness before every class I taught. It is part of. I mean, I've come to accept that it's part of my process, but I'm always nervous before I do something because I want to be good at what I do. And, like, I think there is this weird thing culturally going on that we don't have to get into, but that trying hard or caring is embarrassing or cringe and that, like, do you guys watch the show Succession? Have you ever watched it? Do you know those guys? Do you know Jeremy Strong and Kieran Culkin?

[Mandy B]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

So love Kieran. It's basically, to me, this thing where it's like, everybody loves Kieran because he's just like, I'm so zany. I do whatever I want. Like, I don't prepare. And then there's Jeremy Strong, who's this fucking fantastic actor, but because he's a try hard, people don't like him. And I, unfortunately, am a try hard.

[Mandy B]

You mean on the show.

[Tracy Thomas]

Just in, like, there's all this chatter.

[Mandy B]

Around, oh, he's good on the show.

[Tracy Thomas]

He's great on the show. They're both great. Both of their performances are good. But Kieran Culkin, people, like, love him because he's so whatever. And people dislike Jeremy Strong because he stays in character on set and he's, like, so intense and he's, quite frankly, a weird dude. But his work is good. And so I feel like there's this whole thing, and I think it's actually connected to Trump that, like, being prepared or, like, being good at what you do and wanting to be good and striving to be good is now culturally embarrassing. And because, like, Trump. Because, like, Trump became president just, like, without trying and, like, he doesn't know anything. And then it's like, you have Joe Biden. It's like, Joe Biden's a career politician. It's like, well, shouldn't we want someone who's put a lot of effort and, like, wants to be the top of their field. Obviously, I think they're both, you know, fuck that and pre Palestine and all of these things. Right. Like, I think there's a lot of issues with both of them, but I think there is something happening culturally where it's embarrassing to admit that you're nervous about something or, like, want something to be good. Because there's an expectation that, like, I said what I said and fuck you and like, I. Whatever, I don't care. I just wrote this book and, like, it's great and whatever.

[Mandy B]

Bitch propaganda that is slightly fucking us up. Because if we. Some of the reasons I think people love diary of a CEO is because you actually hear CEOs talk about fears, failures. We need more of that. I'm telling you right now. Love. I don't really love the Kardashians, but love the ascension of watching Kim reinvent herself over and over and over and over. I wanna know what didn't work? What was the product you didn't put out? Put this bitch on a mic.

[Wheezy]

I mean, that's why for the book, it was important for me to do a lot of reflection. Me and Weezy, before getting into the book, I remember, went a little back and forth because I was like, oh, there's so many things I'm shameful of. She was like, that's not our brand. You can't talk about shame. We empower, we're liberated. No, no. Well, clearly I'm putting a voice on it because I don't know the exact words, but there was a part where you didn't want me to actually admit the shame that I had around things that I had championed on the podcast, like fucking for money, like, doing certain things where I made it seem like it was a liberating thing at one time. And now I would never tell someone to do that.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right, right.

[Wheezy]

And so it was important for me to show that my mind has changed over things. But also, like, hey, I could think being a side chick at one point in my life was the best thing since sliced bread. And now today, I could be like, oh, bitch, it's because you didn't have any self worth. And so it was important for me to put that in the book to explain what my journey looked like.

[Mandy B]

When you read the Sex for Money chapters, they vary. And I think that's exactly the moment she's talking about, because not a few moments in there, we were on the phone with Charlemagne. Well, that was her moment, I remember. And you were like, I don't Want to talk about fucking for money because I'm ashamed of it. And I'm like, well, how can we not? We've talked about it for so many years. We've got to talk about this thing. And when it finally came out, you read Mandy's, you read mine. I think hers comes first. You read about sex and circumstance, and then I have this thing where I'm like, oh, I think I want to, because this is a kink. Like, there are so many layers to sex for Money, as you mentioned, like when you were talking about, you know, that's in the book. But seeing where everyone feels their shame is very interesting because it's the same thing as I don't care. I'm this. I'm. That. Every woman feels it somewhere.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

And it's not that girls that are more promiscuous are doing things because they, you know, I don't know, need to cover something up in themselves. Who knows where the shame will come? I talk about shame in my sexual assault chapter because I'm into consensual, non consensual sex.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Mandy B]

And then this thing happened to me and I'm like, ooh, am I supposed to still like it? Right. It's literally the woman who's been assaulted but still has to fuck men if they've been assaulted by a man.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Mandy B]

So I think all of those things about seeing where your shame pops up is really interesting. And I was fearful in the beginning of talking about shame around sex, because we are celebrating it.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

But I love that. Seeing some of the faults connect with people.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. And I think. I mean, I'm glad it was in there. I think it would be a considerably worse book if it was not, like, no, legit. Seriously, if that wasn't in there, I would be like, so you guys are telling me that you've done all of these things. You know, you started being sexually active at, like, 15 or 16, I think, in your case, Mandy, and you don't have any regrets. You don't feel any type of way about any of this. But you want me to take your advice.

[Wheezy]

That's what I'm saying. So I think it's not realistic.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. I think.

[Wheezy]

To celebrate sex is one thing, but to be realistic about what comes with celebrating the act of.

[Tracy Thomas]

And you can't celebrate. You can't really celebrate something until you understand what you're celebrating. So if you're just blindly like, sex is great, it's like, well, no, some sex is not great. And in a moment, it might have felt Fine. And then you look back and you're like, that was not.

[Wheezy]

It wasn't okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

And that's like, you know, growth.

[Mandy B]

Literally.

[Wheezy]

Literally.

[Tracy Thomas]

So I feel like that.

[Wheezy]

Which again, if we're talking about our journeys, it would have. I wouldn't have written the book if I couldn't include my therapeutic journey with how I felt in moments that I was sharing and what I'm looking back and seeing. Because again, going Back to year one of our podcast, I was 26 years old. I was in my last year of college. I was working corporate. I didn't have the money that I have now. I was 80 pounds bigger. There were so many different changes that the things that I felt in that moment are not where I'm at now. And so it was important for me to chronologicalize but also include what my thought was at 26 while I was doing it. So I literally even start my chapter about the side chicken, championing side chicks and saying that I was like, you know, the head honcho of side chicks. And then by the end of the chapter, after experience, after women coming to me as woman to woman and sharing those experiences, I was like, oh, bitch, you were dumb. Yeah, you were real dumb.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. And that's okay. Wait, we'll take a quick break and we'll be back. Hey, everybody, I'm back to tell you about Lumi Gummies. Imagine if edibles just made you feel good instead of too high. Consistent, mellow and super delicious Lume Gummies are specifically designed to make you feel good, not stoned. Whether you're looking for an end of day de stressor, a midday mood boost, or help getting the best sleep ever, Lumi Gummies has a strain that is right for you. As you all know, I am a reader. Reading is my job. I also really like to sleep. And both of those things seem to be getting harder and harder as I deal with with gestures wildly the rest of the world, microdosing gummies can be a real game changer. If you want to curl up, if you want to let everything else melt away, if you want to focus in on a good story, these gummies can help. Lumi Gummies are available nationwide. Go to lumigummies.com, that's L U M I gummies.com and use the code the stacks for 30 off your order. Again, that's L-U-M I gummies.com. code the stacks. Lumigummies.com Code the stacks. Hey friends, it is I, your host, Tracy Thomas. If you've been enjoying today's episode of the Stacks. But you're thinking, gosh, one episode a week is just not enough. I've got two places that you should check out to keep these bookish vibes going. The Stacks Pack on Patreon and my newsletter Unstacked on Substack. The Stacks Pack is where the community lives. We're talking book club meetups, a private discord chat, our year long mega challenge plus members get a bonus episode every month. It is a great way to support me and the crew and for you to connect with other readers. Over on Unstacked, I keep the conversation going twice a week. On Monday you get my grown up show and Tell, which is basically where I tell you about all the things I loved and hated in the last week. And then on Fridays you get something special. Sometimes it's a bonus episode, sometimes it's an installment of my Non Fiction files. There is both a free and a paid option over on Substack plus right now through September 22nd. If you join in either place, you can get my Non fiction reading guide 30 book recommendations of fantastic nonfiction just for you. If you're looking to meet other book lovers. If you want to support this black woman, run independent podcast. If you just want more of me yelling at you, come hang out with me on [e-mail] the stacks and subscribe to my newsletter@tracythomas substack.com okay, let me just tell you this from firsthand experience. If you're starting a new business, that can be incredibly intimidating. When I first started this podcast, there seemed to be about a hundred million different things that I had to learn and figure out on my own. That's why I know how important it is to find the right business tool to help you get things done. Not only to get things done, but to make it simpler for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all E commerce in the United States. Shopify has world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and more. Whether you're a big brand or starting your first business, they make it feel approachable from day one. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store to match your beautiful brand. And they even help you get the word out like you have a big fancy marketing team behind you. If you're ready to sell, then you're ready for Shopify. Turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling [e-mail] the Stacks. Go to shopify.com the Stacks. Shopify.com the Stacks. Okay, we're back. Okay, I want to shift a little bit, I think.

[Wheezy]

Talk to us.

[Tracy Thomas]

I want to talk about sex and sexuality. Because you're both mixed black women.

[Wheezy]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

Me too.

[Wheezy]

Not the biracial brigade.

[Tracy Thomas]

I know they're going to yell at me. And you both carry a lot of different identities with your sexuality. I mean, man, do you have like 4 or 5? When you laid it out at the beginning, I was like, I'm this, that, this, that, and this.

[Wheezy]

So do you want the backstory on this?

[Tracy Thomas]

I do, but before I. Let me ask a question and then I want you to tell the backstory. I want to know. Well, actually, no. Tell the backstory and then I'll ask my question.

[Wheezy]

I labeled myself that way because our editor read our book and halfway through told me I wasn't bisexual because I didn't have the lover. I didn't have enough stories about women. And the way I gave advice was for dating a man. So throughout the book, as I was identifying as bisexual, when she's talking about those red lines that came in, the notes were, yeah, I don't think you're bisexual. I don't think you're this. And I was really, like, offended. Like someone trying to put a label on me based on how they perceive sexuality to look. And so I was upset and I expressed myself, like, almost, how dare you? But that's why at the top of my chapter, I say, I am a queer, bisexual, arosexual, hetero, romantic, cis hetero woman. Like, I lay it out there like that, because while I enjoy having sex with women, I don't have romantic partnerships with women. And so maybe that's what the editor saw.

[Tracy Thomas]

Interesting.

[Wheezy]

And I was just like, wow, how dare.

[Tracy Thomas]

How dare you?

[Wheezy]

And she's a part of the community, right? It was obvious. We don't really know, but it was obvious to us. No, she told us. And so I was okay. I didn't remember it being identified that way. But she's a part of the community. And so for me, I felt like Gatekeepy. Yeah, how dare you Listening?

[Mandy B]

As a lesbian, you know this to be true. The bisexuals are not fun for you. We go to the bar and you are like, bitch, get outta here. So it was almost like it happened in the red line. Like you're walking into a gay bar I go to in New York, the Cubbyhole. Sometimes when I walk in there, I literally had a girl look at me. And she was like, I could tell you fuck with this, bitch. What is it? Like, what is it? Is it. The cargoes aren't cargoing. Like, it's weird, but. But that was literally what we got to see happen in real time on a book about sexual exploration.

[Wheezy]

While at the same time, I mentioned in. Can I put it back there, I mention my ignorance and homophobia at an early age. So to me, sexuality is expressed almost in every chapter, whether it be things that I need to unlearn based on, you know, community, based on religion, based on. I'm Jamaican, so just based on how I was brought up and then me leaning into exploring and seeing what my sexuality is like. And so, yeah, during the book process, I laid it out like that because I was like, bitch, look up all these words, because this is how the fuck I identify. And so, yeah, okay, that makes a.

[Tracy Thomas]

Lot of sense, actually. Well, my question sort of around it was what you were just getting at, which is like, how have you guys navigated being out and queer and in these public spaces, especially right now when there's so much sort of hate and ignorance around black people, Queer black people. And you guys are so open and upfront with it. Like, do you ever worry about boundaries or safety or any of that stuff?

[Wheezy]

No one talks about the privilege that women have with sexuality.

[Tracy Thomas]

Sure.

[Wheezy]

I think the fear that exists around sexual identity, unfortunately, is targeted to black men specifically. And trans.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Wheezy]

And so for us, saying we eat coochie, saying we kiss women, saying we date women, saying we date couples, I don't feel like, outside of the whore title or the promiscuous label, that I really feel attacked on my sexuality.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Wheezy]

And so what I like about our platform, what I like about the book, is wearing it proudly and being happy, which is why I took so offense to Bitch. How dare you try to kick me out of the Alphabet community. I am what I say I am. Right. And so I don't feel like we have all the fear around us that black men and trans people have at all around sexuality.

[Tracy Thomas]

How about you?

[Mandy B]

Well, I was with a woman for a few years, vacationing all over the world together. And there are a few instances where it wasn't fear, but it was definitely prejudice. So one moment that sticks out, it's unforgettable to me. We were staying at the Waldorf in Panama City, Panama. And this is a place where prostitution's legal. Her and I were out having fun. Came in, back to our hotel. We'd been staying there for a few days. We Were maybe wearing bodycon dresses. We didn't look. Actually, you know what, look at me. About to judge bitches. I was about to say we ain't look cheap, but that's what's in my head, right? No, like we were looking cute. Like I'm just saying we ain't look raggedy. Okay? The way that this guy treated us because we were holding hands and maybe she gave me a kiss. They swore we were coming in the hotel to solicit sex. Oh, crazy. Like ready to call the police. She starts to cry. She gets uncomfortable. My ex girlfriend is religious, very religious and was at the time of us dating. She. I believe in that moment. We never talked about this, but I would bet was feeling like, fuck, I'm. This is what I deserve me. I'm like, fuck you. I will call the manager. This is a Hilton property.

[Tracy Thomas]

You said I'm white too. Don't forget.

[Mandy B]

I will show you the photos. I am girl. So anyway, the hotel was very hush hush about it. Wanted to give us credits. XYZ and her and I kind of swiped over it. There was another instance in Paris where we were out together. I would describe this as one of those like party restaurants. It wasn't super quiet. It wasn't families. Think of like a towel, a big tent, that type of shit. And this guy was there with his wife. And we're having fun. We're sitting close. We're not making out. I don't actually make out with anyone in the restaurant. And this guy said he would pay for our dinner if we would switch seats. And so I'm like, okay, bitch, let's run the tab up. And I'm not caring, thinking it's funny. And again I saw another moment of her being like, like, holy. He wanted to switch seats so he.

[Tracy Thomas]

Didn'T have to look at you.

[Mandy B]

He didn't want his wife and him to like have to. It wasn't him, it was his wife.

[Tracy Thomas]

To like see you guys. Is that what it is?

[Mandy B]

We were being affectionate. Oh, she had her arm on me, like maybe brushing my hair out of the way. But like the other context of my ex and I that I will say she's very beautiful, very girly, very lipstick les. And she. Even the way I'm dressed now, I'm in sweat, you can't see me. But she would want me to dress up too. And we looked like these two girly girls that were dating. And that's not very common with lesbians. They normally have a look that we can imagine. And so I Think for that alone, it made men stare at us. And sometimes it made our relationship a little bit. For the male gaze. That was where I had seen those things. Now, granted, if we were black men, I'm sure there would have been a hundred of these stories.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right?

[Mandy B]

Right. But those were things I saw. And that was, to me, level one. The thing that I think I experienced more than anything is just. It's very hard to be out and proud as someone who's non monogamous. There's a lot of judgment there. I've actually experienced more judgment from women than anyone. My mom's cool with it. She knows who I am. She knows that me and my boyfriend date women. We might have a girlfriend. My mom knows when someone was downstairs, she was making us dinner, and I'm like, okay, we gotta go. And she's like, you got someone coming over. Who you guys have coming over? Like, this is normal language in my house. This is who I've been for eternity. But the general public doesn't think my relationship is real because I'm in an open one. That's normal. Honoring my love and my spaces. That, to me is all part of the queerness. You know what I mean? And so the sexual orientations being a part of judgment is something I think anyone that you know and I know, they're just used to it. We just accept our fate in that way.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. Do you. Have you noticed a shift in how people talk to you or respond to you in like, as the political climate's changed at all?

[Wheezy]

I don't have many of those conversations with people.

[Mandy B]

I would say the way that I feel the shift in the political climate is probably from brands and advertising and us feeling that in that way. Not necessarily us and, you know, existing individually, but I do feel it sometimes when it comes to us trying to put our things out in the world.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Wheezy]

I mean, I reference the reversal of Roe v. Wade in my abortion chapter. So for me, it was really important. And there was no way in hell with the current climate I wasn't gonna include my abortion story. And why what that moment felt like for me, I. That was. It was one of my easiest chapters to write. However, it required the most amount of work. I had never spoken to my mom about it after it was done. So 17 years later, I interviewed my mom for this book and asked how she felt in that moment. My friend Keita, who gave me $500 from.

[Tracy Thomas]

That was like a real surprise, heartwarming moment of the chapter, for sure. I took a note about that and.

[Wheezy]

Me and her came together, and she's like, you don't even know where I was. And I still like you.

[Tracy Thomas]

Are you still friends with her?

[Wheezy]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

So how could you not be friends with me, girl?

[Tracy Thomas]

Cause you weren't that good of friends with her at the time, which was part of the story. So I wasn't sure if it was like, you got closer because of it.

[Wheezy]

Well, she ended up going. She lived in Korea for quite a few years, but she's in D.C. and so whenever we had a live show, she was there. Ironically, too, because she's from Orlando. She knows her best friend Vinny. So, like, knowing how small the world is, knowing that she knew Vinny, she's.

[Mandy B]

The hero of the book, you know.

[Wheezy]

Like, she's another person that I interviewed because I had never asked her or my mom how my decision made them feel, how I impacted, how what I did put any dent into, you know, their lives at the moment. And her dad had passed away, so she's like, I was taking care of the house, but I knew you needed it more. And I hate, like, getting like this about this, but she meant a lot.

[Tracy Thomas]

You could feel. You can feel all of that in that. I mean, I literally was like, I gotta. I was like, I gotta ask about the friendship.

[Mandy B]

And, like, the book is really dope to read, like, front to back, because there's so many elements of dating and love. But seeing how friendship is community and, like, how much they mean, I. Even the guy she's talking about, Vinny, he's my best friend. I say I'd be jealous of his mother if she didn't push him out. Like, that's how much I've been attached to this person. It really shows you how the journey is not alone. Like, we really do need friendship in order to get over and shit, get under someone. I talk about the devil on your shoulder and the angel on your shoulder. Like, we need that friend to champion us, to help us, you know, get through what we may be confused about within ourselves. Because a lot of times when we are meeting women, we were the first time they had a friend that could hold their hand and say, yes, do it. Yeah. And there is so much shame around exploring yourself. I'm not talking about, you know, maybe for those listening, it might be something like, as simple as, I don't know, going on a dating apple. A lot of these women were like, I've never been able to say I wasn't having an orgasm. Right? I've never been able to say, hey, I'm curious about Maybe it's exploring sex with other people. Imagine a woman coming to her husband and say, I think I want to fuck someone else. We hear it on the other end, right? When is a woman supposed to take power? We're just supposed to say, oh, cool, you want us to go to a sex club? Finally, I'll get my chance. What woman can openly say this without being scared that it'll be held against her? Right. That's where this book really gave people. Yeah, I think some power.

[Tracy Thomas]

I think that's right. Okay, Hard shift.

[Wheezy]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

I have some questions I ask everybody.

[Wheezy]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

First and foremost, how did you write this book? Where were you? How many hours a day? Computer, phone, notepad, snacks and beverages, candles.

[Mandy B]

I love this question.

[Tracy Thomas]

What set the scene for your writing process?

[Mandy B]

I'll tell you two chapters, because those are memorable.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Mandy B]

Because it was actually all of them.

[Tracy Thomas]

You did all sorts of different things for each, just depending.

[Mandy B]

Love chapter, which is my favorite because I'm such a lover girl. But I'm reading the book. You can tell I'm the one. I'm boyfriend girl. I'm like, oh, yay, he's gonna be my husband. And it's like the dom. And I'm like, well, maybe it'll work out.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

You know, when I. And you see someone that cares about someone so deeply that they're looking at each other in a certain way, they're doing these extravagant acts of romance. Like, I finally received it. I would write the love chapter every time he left me because I didn't want to forget the feeling on the beach when he was sleeping. There's a moment where I talk about peeing out semen so I won't get bv. And I'm like, oh, I got to put this in the book. Like, I wrote that chapter everywhere.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

The chapter about my ex girlfriend was. I don't know if you remember me saying I masturbated halfway through.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes, I do. That was the threesome chapter.

[Mandy B]

I wrote that on my phone, on a plane, and the other half of it at my current boyfriend's house. And that chapter, as sexy as it was, it got so serious that I felt guilty writing it in his home because I realized how I couldn't say anything bad about her. Never a snack. Always water, staying hydrated.

[Tracy Thomas]

Or you can leave.

[Mandy B]

Never a snack. Because if I eat the snack, I want tv, girl.

[Tracy Thomas]

I see. Okay.

[Mandy B]

Oh, I can't have no Cheetos. I can't have no popcorn without being like, let me just sit down and watch my new fiance okay. Fair and in every emotion. Happy, sad. I've been high once. That was fun. I did some acid, and I just need to burn out a little bit. I didn't have a method to doing it. I worked with Malcolm Gladwell on a project, and I loved the way that he talked about writing books. Cause it sounded like a real author. And for me, it wasn't. Got it. Whatever. But now I feel like because Mandy and I are so opposite, she's so structured and organized in her everyday life. Now I want to know how you wrote it.

[Wheezy]

Structured and organized.

[Mandy B]

That's right.

[Wheezy]

Absolutely. Not at all close to how you did it. I knew which chapters would be easy for me and which ones would be emotional labor. So that's how I structured which ones I would write first. Like, ironically, the abortion one came quick. Introduction came quick. Meeting the couple in Mexico came quick. So what my process looked like would be taking, say, maybe two chapters. These are the two chapters I'm gonna work on this week. Tempest would come over, and we did four hour blocks.

[Tracy Thomas]

Got it.

[Wheezy]

So over the four hours, we would sit with each other, and she'd hit the record button, and she would talk me through chronologically how I wanted to narrate the story, which parts were important for me to put in there, and what the arc of it would be. So what is the theme of this chapter? What is the arc of this chapter? So I would start just talking about it. That's how we would do it. And then literally, she would stop me. Okay, what about if we take the story this way so that the audience knows where you're going with it? That's how the. Can I put it back there? Chapter way. It literally went from my homophobia and my views on anal sex in the beginning to finally experiencing anal sex in a climatic way. All the way to me enjoying penetrating men. So there was always themes. And so literally, it would be four hours at a time with her. She would leave. I would have my notes on how the chapter's supposed to be. She's like, write it and get it to me. And so my process would be waking up the next morning and getting to work.

[Tracy Thomas]

Smack some beverages.

[Mandy B]

What was interesting?

[Wheezy]

Oh, I was drinking.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Wheezy]

I was drinking. Yeah. Liquor. Maybe some wine. Me and Tempest, during our meetings, they were four hours. So we would always. Me getting flustered in the two hours halfway through, we're ordering lunch. Got it. And for that, it was almost always Mediterranean. I don't know why that was the food choice.

[Tracy Thomas]

A mezze moment.

[Wheezy]

It was a mezze moment. It was a fish. It was a fish. It was a dip. It was a pita bread. That was what we ate a lot.

[Mandy B]

I didn't think about Tempest the before when writing, but while Mandy was saying it, I had these moments with Tempest, too. But it wasn't till after I wrote, if I did what you did before, I wouldn't get the chapter out. She came over to my house one time and saw what it did to me. It's very confusing. I'm very Pisces for anyone listening. Very water sign. Very like, I'm Free bird. If she did that with me, whereas that helped you, well, it. It felt deterring for me.

[Wheezy]

The process changed for me. I was very insecure about a. Even how I speak. So I was like. And at the moment, there was, like, an outpouring amount of insecurity around how I put my thoughts together, right? So at first, having her be a part of the process, I was like, okay, you're gonna record everything I say and write it. That's how I at first thought the process was gonna be. And I said, I want it to sound like me. She did that one time. I got the chapter back, and I said, I'm blunt. I really like you, so don't take this the hard way. I fucking hate it. This sounds terrible. She's like, well, you want it to sound like how you talk. I said, it sounds remedial. I fucking hate how this reads. It was like, three words, period. Four words, period. I'm a long flow sentence bitch when I write, but how I speak, my thoughts are a little jittery and scattered. And so when I saw it, I said, absolutely not. I hate this. And she said, now I want to read it.

[Mandy B]

She said, the chapter that could have been.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, that should be bonus content for the Patreon.

[Wheezy]

Oh, especially because I've expressed how much I hate it. And so I'm really glad that we had that moment, because her response to that was, okay, well, I want to make sure I know what your flow is. So you write based on what our interview, our conversation was. You write your introduction. I went and wrote my introduction, and she said, amanda, this is beautiful. And she was like, how dare you have that insecurity? You're writing all your chapters, and I'm gonna come in and we're gonna make sure it's structured. And so from that point on, she gave me the confidence to literally sit in front of my computer. And it became such a great experience for me.

[Mandy B]

I know we don't have a Lot of time. But I need to know your favorite chapters from each of us.

[Wheezy]

Or, like, what moments did I. I know. You said Kita did. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

The abortion chapter of yours I really, really liked. I like the Dom chapter of yours. I really like that one.

[Mandy B]

I cannot believe that is the one you said.

[Tracy Thomas]

Why?

[Mandy B]

I thought you would have said my assault chapter. I mean, because if the abortion chapter for Mandy connected that chapter. I guess the other flip side of it is the vulnerability.

[Tracy Thomas]

I just think you guys are also really different, and so I felt like.

[Wheezy]

You could pick up on that.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Your writing styles were really different too.

[Wheezy]

Okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

But I also, like, sometimes I would be. Cause I did it digitally. Sometimes I would be in a chapter and be like, wait, who is this? And then I'd be like, oh, obviously.

[Mandy B]

Your style is top of the page, but.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, but you can't go back digitally.

[Wheezy]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

And so I was like. I would be deep into the chapter and then be like, wait, who's this again? And then I was like, oh, shit. Duh. So I just feel like. I don't know. That chapter, to me of yours felt like, really? You? Like, I felt like, oh, this is like, Weezy doing her thing. And I felt like the abortion. I would say the abortion chapter, but I also think the Sex for Money chapter.

[Wheezy]

Oh, wow. Where I pretty much called myself pathetic the whole time.

[Tracy Thomas]

Well, I just thought it was, like. It was an interesting. I thought there was, like, a nice arc to that chapter. Thank you. I think. I don't know.

[Mandy B]

You like Mandy's vulnerable chapters.

[Tracy Thomas]

I do, but it might just be because, like, I can't say why those chapters of yours worked for me. And, like, I don't know. I think also, like, the combination of having, like, some chapters that had more, like, levity and more like, sex and, like, kind of, like wild party girl vibes. And I also liked, like, I did like, your assault chapter, and I thought it was interesting how you, like, incorporated your lineage of being a party girl. I think that's how you phrased it or something.

[Wheezy]

Oh, yeah.

[Mandy B]

Because your mom's the number one thing you hear. It came after a party.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Mandy B]

So I deserve this.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right. And I thought that was interesting. Those are the, like, four chapters that stick out to me as being, like, my favorite.

[Wheezy]

I love that.

[Mandy B]

I would like to tell your listeners, too. The book is broken up into pain, pleasure, progression, power. So in the pain chapters, there's an abortion story, and then there's that BDSM Dom chapter you're talking about. Like, I think so. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

And you just see there are in the pain section, all the ones I like.

[Wheezy]

I think, oh, no one is in.

[Tracy Thomas]

Purpose, progression or progression.

[Wheezy]

You know what's crazy about even structure? That how we have an outline for our podcast. I was like, we need to break this up into sections. Even the patriarchal bullshit had to have a matriarchal reply. Like, everything was really intentional with the structure of it, even the going back.

[Mandy B]

And forth just from writing chapters, by the way. Pain, pleasure, progression.

[Wheezy]

We had pain first, and we were like, the book can't start with pain. We have to. So we even moved that around, putting pleasure first, pain in the middle. Then progression was always gonna be at the end. And then power came at, like, that's.

[Tracy Thomas]

Just a tiny epilogue.

[Wheezy]

Yep.

[Mandy B]

Yeah, we had pain, pleasure, progression because the stories we wanted to tell were like, how do these fit in? And then power might have been Tempest's idea of just like, how do we really make this stick? These are powerful stories.

[Wheezy]

Well, no, we had power there. However, the how it was supposed to look were us writing letters to ourselves.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh.

[Wheezy]

And then. So you know what's crazy that happened? We both wrote these letters to ourselves. They read so different. They didn't mesh. We were like, yeah, no. So Tempest came and said, okay, both of you write to me what power looks like to you. And so then we have all the ways in which.

[Tracy Thomas]

That's the chapter you guys write together. Yes. Part of the introduction's together, and then that's together, and then everything's together.

[Wheezy]

And then that one's together. Everything.

[Tracy Thomas]

Like, okay, we're out of time, but I have to ask my last question that I ask everybody, which is, if you could have one person dead or alive read this book, who would you want it to be?

[Wheezy]

Ooh, bell hooks. And we have two quotes in there from her.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Wheezy]

So can I add one more?

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Wheezy]

Only because she is the icon of sex, and we don't know much of her story.

[Mandy B]

Sister Soulja. No, that's mine.

[Wheezy]

Marilyn Monroe.

[Tracy Thomas]

Oh, interesting.

[Mandy B]

Oh, a non thick white woman.

[Wheezy]

She had. I want. We wrote this book for all women, I think for her being the icon essentially of sex, promiscuity, being a man eater. However, we never got to hear her side. The pain that went into it, maybe the assaults that she dealt with with men being in the industry. And so there's just a story of hers untold that I think if she read this, it would have empowered her if she was alive.

[Tracy Thomas]

Totally, totally.

[Mandy B]

I think when I hear that question, I'm like, my first Thing is, I want to know what this person thinks of it. So I can only think of the people that inspire me. And so this book, to me, I am more excited about the erotica in it. When I say erotica with self help, it's the outline of how to circumvent basically what could go wrong based on the things you've read. However, self help, to me, people that are alive, that are great at doing this are the Malcolm Gladwells. I could even say Mel Robbins. Right? That's. Those people are in there. Let's just say these two erotica is, to me, the backbone of this book. It's the front cover of this book. It is the two girls success and how they got this book. So I think about the erotica that really got me going. Jane Zane, Eric Jerome Dickey, Sista Soulja. I think if any one of them could read it, I would want to know what they thought of how those sexual stories were told. Because best line of a book all time, I bust out my mama's coochie. That was coldest winner ever, Sister soldier. And I remember opening that book as a kid and being like. And I put it down because I thought my family could see me reading it. I want to know.

[Wheezy]

My mom gave me that book for Christmas.

[Mandy B]

I love it. It's so phenomenal.

[Tracy Thomas]

All right, party people. No holes barred. It is out in the world as you're listening to this conversation. You can get it wherever you get your books. The ladies do. The audiobook, it is not finished as we're recording, so I have not been able to listen to it, though I really want to, and I probably will once it comes out.

[Wheezy]

But for anyone who hasn't been an author, that was harder than writing it. Everybody says that the audiobook was.

[Tracy Thomas]

And I bet it was really hard for you because you have a sort of New York accent.

[Wheezy]

Do I?

[Tracy Thomas]

A little bit.

[Wheezy]

No, I don't.

[Tracy Thomas]

Girl, you are from Florida, but you have. You have an accent. I bet they were all up on here. I think I got an accent.

[Wheezy]

I think I sound just. This is the standard of English.

[Mandy B]

You know what? I did an audiobook that I actually. I don't know if I told you, you mentioned Australian guy, British guy.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Mandy B]

Oh, I did all of that.

[Tracy Thomas]

You did that performance. Full performance pieces.

[Mandy B]

Take your panties off, like. And it's so funny because the director was like, it doesn't feel right if you don't do it. I was like, but it sounds bad. She's like, but they know you're gonna sound bad. No they don't girl. Yes they do. Okay, well.

[Tracy Thomas]

Well anyways you can get the book wherever you get your books, audio, print, whatever you want. Ladies, thank you so much for being here. Thank you.

[Wheezy]

This was great.

[Tracy Thomas]

And everyone else else, we will see you in the stacks.

[Mandy B]

See you in the snacks.

[Tracy Thomas]

All right, that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening and thank you again to Wheezy, WTF and Mandy B. For joining the podcast. I'd also like to say a huge thank you to Kip Lanham and Kara Brock for making today's episode possible. Remember, our book club pick for July is God Help the Child by Toni Morrison, which we will Discuss on Wednesday, July 30th with Dana A. Williams. If you love this podcast, if you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com the stacks to join the Stacks back and you can check out my newsletter@tracy thomas.substack.com make sure you're subscribed to the Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts. And if you're listening through Apple Podcasts or Spotify, be sure to leave us a rating and a review. For more from the Stacks, follow us on social media at the Stacks Pod, on instagram threads and TikTok and check out our [e-mail] this episode of the Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Wykea Frielo. Our graphic Designer is Robin McRite and our theme music is from Tagirigis. The Stax is created and produced by me, Tracy Thomas.

[Wheezy]

No offense, but your brain is a terrible place to keep your big idea. It belongs in the world. But you know that already.

[Mandy B]

You have a calling, a voice that.

[Wheezy]

Says this is what I'm meant to do.

[Tracy Thomas]

Create the website your big idea deserves.

[Wheezy]

With wix, make it your own with top to bottom customization, AI to help realize your vision and built in business tools to turn your daydream into your dream job.

[Mandy B]

WIX supports every stage of the business journey except one.

[Tracy Thomas]

Your decision to begin.

[Wheezy]

Ready go to wix.com.