Ep. 390 What Happened in Those 107 Days with Kamala Harris

Summary

The Stacks, Episode 390: What Happened in Those 107 Days with Kamala Harris

Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Vice President Kamala Harris
Date: September 23, 2025

---

Episode Overview

In this landmark episode of The Stacks, host Traci Thomas welcomes Vice President Kamala Harris to discuss her new book, 107 Days. The conversation explores the whirlwind 107-day presidential campaign, the personal and political reflections that followed, and Harris’s candid assessments of the challenges, missteps, and lessons from that historic period. The dialogue covers campaign pressures, the flaws in political systems, candid regrets and learnings on divisive issues, Harris’s approach to writing, and her vision for civic engagement and national hope moving forward.

Tone: Warm, open, and at times deeply personal, with Harris providing rare behind-the-scenes insights and Thomas engaging as both a political observer and book lover.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Framing the Book: A Political Thriller

• Harris distinguishes 107 Days from her previous memoirs, explaining it’s “not a memoir,” but rather “a political thriller, nonfiction” about an extraordinary campaign moment ([03:16]).
• She emphasizes capturing both the behind-the-scenes dynamics and the optimism she encountered across America:

  “We as Americans really do have an incredible amount of optimism and hope for the future of our country… we can’t let that die.”
  (Kamala Harris, [04:02])

2. Candid Reflections and Regrets

• Harris is notably self-critical regarding decisions made during the campaign, especially her hesitation to intervene at critical moments:

  “I had to ask myself, was it grace or was it reckless on my behalf… to have not raised it with him…was he really up to running?”
  (Kamala Harris, [06:28])

• She clarifies the narrative: it’s not about Biden or the Vice Presidency, but about that specific 107-day gauntlet and what it revealed.

3. The Role of Instinct vs. Data in Campaigning

• Early stages were guided by instinct, not polling. Harris describes how some of the campaign’s most resonant lines—such as “We’re not going back”—emerged ([09:59]).
• Yet, the intrusion of polling later complicated strategic decisions:

  “Sometimes I think it’s just important to trust your life experience, that your gut might actually be right, even when the pollsters don’t think that it’s correct.”
  (Kamala Harris, [11:52])

4. Systemic Flaws & the Politics of Time

• The conversation critiques the expectation of instant legislative results and the limitations of short-term political cycles:

  “We set these legislators up with an expectation that within two years they’re going to get something substantial done… We have a right to expect that our politicians are going to solve problems. I think we have to look at how the system is designed…”
  (Kamala Harris, [14:49])

• Harris advocates for allowing “hypotheses” in policymaking, drawing from her mother’s scientific approach:

  “We want politicians to have the plan…then they have to spend full time defending a flawed plan.”
  (Kamala Harris, [16:05])

5. Strength, Ego, and the Character of Leadership

• Both discuss the American tendency to conflate strength with domination, rather than with “who you lift up” ([18:17]).
• Harris welcomes confidence in leaders, but calls for a deeper conversation on what true strength means in public life.

6. Difficult Issues: Gaza, Trans Rights & Regrets

On Gaza

• Harris admits limited and, in hindsight, flawed exercise of U.S. leverage post-October 7th:

  “I regret that we did not exercise that leverage in a way that I think we could have. And I look at what’s happening now in Gaza and…I mean, my heart breaks.”
  (Kamala Harris, [21:31])

On Trans Rights

• She highlights the manufactured controversy around trans athletes and the real consequences for a marginalized population:

  “Part of my regret in the campaign is I should have pushed back more on what they were doing.”
  (Kamala Harris, [23:37])

On Distractions from Core Issues

• Both critique the fixation on culture war distractions at the expense of affordability and material conditions ([25:11]).

7. Writing Process and Rituals

• Harris shares her practical, tactile approach:

  “I have my favorite blue pen. And you know, I’m old school that way. Like, just give me a yellow pad and a pen and I’m really happy…”
  (Kamala Harris, [31:33])

• She describes an early morning workout and tea as essential pre-writing rituals.

8. Collaboration with Geraldine Brooks

• Harris collaborated with renowned novelist Geraldine Brooks to infuse the narrative with the depth and pace of a thriller while retaining non-fictional integrity ([34:01]):

  “I wanted to work with someone who would get it, who would understand the depth and nuance of the issues… I wanted it to read like a novel.”
  (Kamala Harris, [34:08])

9. Harris’s Own Reading Tastes

• Recommends How to Say Babylon (“an incredible book about a woman’s journey”) and Master Slave Husband Wife ([35:22]).

10. Looking Ahead: Advice and Hope

• Harris acknowledges the darkness of the current moment, but insists hope and fighting spirit are core American qualities:

  “We have to fight, and we have to know that the fight takes a while, but we cannot give up. We cannot let our spirits be defeated. Right. Then they're really winning.”
  (Kamala Harris, [36:12])

• She is noncommittal about future runs for office, citing a desire to listen rather than campaign ([37:59]):

  “I want to be able to listen to people without asking them for something. I don’t want it to be transactional.”
  (Kamala Harris, [38:11])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On political candor and regret:
  “I have been probably more candid in writing and in my reflections than people thought I would be, but I just think it’s important to be honest about just what it was so that we can move forward.”
  (Kamala Harris, [07:20])

• On campaign stress:
  “Running for President of the United States…it’s like being in a marathon at a sprinter’s pace while tomatoes are being thrown at you, every step you take.”
  (Kamala Harris, [06:38])

• On leadership style:
  “The real measure of strength [is] who you lift up. Right. And right now…there are so many signals…suggesting that the strong person is the one who knows how to beat people down, minimize people, depreciate people, marginalize people…”
  (Kamala Harris, [18:44])

• On her writing quirks:
  “People have made fun of me…because I have this one favorite pen…If that's the sign of somebody who likes to write, yes, they have a favorite kind of pen.”
  (Kamala Harris, [32:13])

• Who she’d most like to read her book:
  “My mother, of course.”
  (Kamala Harris, [38:43])

---

Important Timestamps

• 03:16 – Harris sets the tone for 107 Days: Not a memoir; a political nonfiction thriller.
• 06:28 – Harris on realizing she should have raised concerns with Biden.
• 09:59 – Discussing the importance of political instinct versus polling.
• 14:49 – Harris on systemic flaws in legislative timelines.
• 16:05 – Policymaking as “hypothesis” vs. “the plan.”
• 18:44 – Leadership strength, ego, and values.
• 21:31 – Harris’s regrets on Gaza and U.S. leverage.
• 23:37 – On failing to push back enough on anti-trans rhetoric.
• 31:33 – Harris on her writing rituals and love of the blue pen.
• 34:08 – On working with Geraldine Brooks.
• 36:12 – Closing advice: “We have to fight…Let’s not be defeated.”
• 37:59 – Harris on her (non-)plans for future public office.
• 38:43 – The one person she’d want to read her book.

---

Final Thoughts

This episode goes far beyond the typical political book tour, offering rare vulnerability and insight from Vice President Harris and smart, incisive questioning from Traci Thomas. Harris’s willingness to reflect critically on her own decisions, the campaign’s pivotal moments, and systemic flaws in American politics marks a standout moment in the genre of political conversation.

For listeners: If you seek a candid, nuanced account of modern campaigning and the intersections of hope, policy, and personal reflection, this episode is essential—and so, it seems, is Harris’s 107 Days.

Transcript

[Shopify Narrator]

Shopify's point of sale system helps you sell at every stage of your business. Need a fast and secure way to take payments in person? We've got you covered. How about card readers you can rely on anywhere you sell?

[Tracy Thomas]

Thanks.

[Shopify Narrator]

Have a good one. Yep, that too. Want one place to manage all your online and in person sales? That's kind of our thing. Wherever you sell. Businesses that grow grow with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 a month [e-mail] Listen. Shopify.com Listen.

[Kamala Harris]

You know, I think there are many flaws in our system and we set these legislators up with an expectation that within two years they're going to get something substantial done. But anything that is intractable, that is challenging our society, we're not going to figure out in just two years from soup to nuts, we have a right to expect that our politicians are going to solve problems.

[Tracy Thomas]

Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host Tracy Thomas and today it is one of the great honors of my life to welcome to the podcast Vice President Kamala Harris. She is here to talk about her brand new book 107 Days, which is out now. The Vice President and I talk about her campaign, both the highlights and the missteps. We also talk about the impact of political polling and she shares her vision for America's future. The Stacks Book Club pick for September is the Lilac People by Milo Todd, which I will be discussing with Den Michelle Norris on Wednesday, September 24th. Everything we talk about on each episode of the Stacks can be found in the link in the show notes. Listen, I know that my little indie book podcast the Stacks. This is probably the first time you're listening to it, so if you like what you hear, please consider supporting my work and supporting the work of independent media by joining the Stacks Pack, our online literary [e-mail] the stacks and subscribing to my newsletter at Tracy Thomas substack. Com. You earn perks, you get a lot of hot takes from me. Plus you get to know that your money is going to making this show possible. And don't forget, new episodes of the Stacks are out every Wednesday. All right, now it is time for my conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. All right everybody, when I say that I'm excited about today's guest, it is the understatement of maybe my entire life. I am so thrilled to be joined today by Vice President Kamala Harris. Welcome to the Stacks, Tracy.

[Kamala Harris]

It's great to be on the Stacks.

[Tracy Thomas]

With you, I mean, this is a dream come true. So thank you so much. We're going to talk about the book 107 days. I've read your other books, and that's kind of where I want to start. You. Your first two books are sort of, you know, you're introducing yourself to the world. You're introducing yourself. You know, it's the. It's the typical political memoir of, like, this is what I believe in. This is who I am. With this book, you're stepping into a totally different audience. Everyone knows you, Everyone knows what's supposed to be in this book. How are you approaching this differently? What does it feel like?

[Kamala Harris]

So this book, I mean, so you're right. The last book I wrote the Truths we hold, and then before that was Smart on Crime, which was my theory about criminal justice policy, you know, from 20 years ago. But the last book was really, I think it. Yes, a memoir. It was about my life story and explaining who I am and the influences on my life. This book is not a memoir. This book I think you should think of as a political thriller. Nonfiction. Yeah, yeah, right. It's about 107 days. And that's, you know, I didn't get creative with the title. I just named the book what it is. It's about those 107 days and a campaign that, you know, millions of people were a part of, most of whom I never met. And we're on that journey, we're watching it, were participating. And I just felt it was so important to capture the behind the scenes aspect of it, but also to capture, I mean, I met on the road in our country, so many amazing people, and to share hopefully in this book, the vision that I had of them in all of these places, to share it with the rest of us in a way that hopefully reminds us that we as Americans really do have an incredible amount of optimism and hope for the future of our country. And I know we're in dark times right now, but we can't lose sight that that also is a part of who we are, that we do retain that kind of hope and belief in the future, and especially right now. I think we need to remember that we can't let that die.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. I mean, I think I do want to talk about the dark days we're in now, but I think maybe we should do that later. I want to. I do want to. I want to start with some of the book stuff because I. I don't want to spend all my time talking about the other person, you know, like it's like, this is your book. You've written this book. And it's definitely a moment. And I think, you know, I. I'm plugged into the news. I know what's being talked about. I read the piece in the Atlantic, obviously, and, you know, the big sound bite that's already coming out is sort of what was going on with you and Joe Biden. And, you know, this comment of, like, were we being reckless by not sitting down and having these conversations? And I think my first real question about that is, when did you know that? Like, maybe this isn't the best idea. Like, when was the first time? Because I know for some people, it was when Ezra Klein talked about it on the New York Times podcast. And I know for some people, it wasn't until, you know, the debate. And so when was it for you that you started to feel like maybe I should be part of this conversation?

[Kamala Harris]

So let me start by saying this. This book is not about Joe Biden.

[Tracy Thomas]

No, it's not.

[Kamala Harris]

And this book is not about my vice presidency. This book is about 107 days, and putting those 107 days in context where necessary. And so. But you're right, I do. You know, the book was the product of many months that I had after the election and after I came back after the inauguration to just reflect. And part of those reflections included realizing I should have said something. And as you know, I write, I had to ask myself, was it grace or was it reckless on my behalf? I won't speak for others, but on my behalf, to have not raised it with him and meaning the concern about, was he really up to running? Right. Because that's what I'm talking about. I don't have any question about his capacity to have done the job of being president. And the job he was doing, it was about, was he up to running for reelection as I describe, and, you know, running for President of the United States, Running for any office but President of the United States, it's like being in a marathon at a sprinter's pace while tomatoes are being thrown at you, every step you take. Right. It's an endurance test. It is extremely taxing on every element of who you are. So, yes, I realize that I probably should have said something, and that is one of the regrets that I have, to be honest. And I have been probably more candid in writing and in my reflections than people thought I would be, but I just think it's important to be honest about just what it was so that we can move forward. Right.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. I think that's one of the things that I really appreciate about the book, is that you are super candid with us and you do sort of share these. There were moments in the book where I was like, oh, didn't think I was going to get that. Like, when you have the list of what everybody said to you after sort of Joe Biden's announcement, and I'm like, going through, you know, and I was like, oh, didn't know we were going to get Newsom's moment. I'll leave that for people. I won't spoil the newsome moment. But I wasn't. You know, I was. I felt like, oh, she's really letting us in. Which I think is, to be frank, the question that people often have with books like this. You know, how far is the author going to go? Are they really going to tell us what they were thinking and feeling? And I do. I do feel like, as the reader, I got a way better sense of your mindset. I also was thrilled to see some of my absolute favorite political people show up in the book, including David Plouffe. I am his number one fan. I. I volunteered on the Obama campaign when I was 18 or 22, and I remember I used to wait up for the field organizing call so that I could listen to David Plough. So I was like, I didn't even know. I was so excited. So shout out to him. I want to know when you're in this Sprint marathon with the tomatoes and there's all this stuff going on, and you're. You have this whole team of people. You've all been mobilized for only 107 days. You're figuring it out as you go. How much are you relying on your political instincts and how much are you relying on outside voices? And does that get confusing for you? Because there are moments in the book, famously, I think, you know, the Pete Buddha to judge question of, you wanted him, but you weren't sure it was going to work out because you understood and outside voices. So what is that balance like for you? Because you have great political instincts. You're Kamala Harris. You're the vice president. Like, you're not a slouch, right? So how do you balance all that noise with. You.

[Kamala Harris]

So you know, those first many chapters around the first two weeks, no political polling. We had no polling. We had no. Just nothing. It was pure instinct. So when I came up with the whole speech about. I know his type, right? That was pure political. That was my instinct. Like, you know, if I just break down who this guy is, the guy I'm running against. And if you just deconstruct who he is based on, even through my lens of experience as a prosecutor, you know who this guy, you know his type, right. Or when I came up with this line that, you know, because I make America great again. And, well, what does that mean again? Like, we're going backward. And so I came up with this line just kind of spontaneously, we're not going back. And then the crowd just picks up on it and just runs. We're not going back. We're not going back. And it became a line of the campaign. Right. And so to your point, instinct, at least for the beginning and when we were really ramping up and gaining momentum, was the driving force. It was not polling. But it's a campaign for president, and polling must be done. Polling is done. And honestly, I mean, part of what I also try to do with this book is take us beyond the campaign to where we need to go as a future. Right. And in our future. And part of the candor that I hope I bring to this discussion is we also need to be frank about what's not working in terms of the way we run campaigns. So polling, you know, polling is. It's a flawed process. A lot of polling is, we want to get back that what we thought was. Right. Supposed to.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right, Right.

[Kamala Harris]

Where are the people? What are they really thinking? Instead of just let's pull to test our message. The message that we decided is a good message. And I think that's part of what's flawed, and that's part of what I want us to think about as we move forward and how we're all thinking, especially those in politics, about are we really relevant to the concerns, the dreams, the hopes of the American people? But, you know. Yeah. So polling can sometimes override your instinct because you're just presented with all this data that says this is what people think or not. And sometimes I think it's just important to trust your life experience, that your gut might actually be right, even when the pollsters don't think that it's correct.

[Tracy Thomas]

Talking about just the length of the campaign and sort of. I think. I think one of the things that's really challenging for a lot of Americans, and I'm sure you feel this way and you probably get this feedback, is how long these election cycles generally are. Right. I think when it comes to your Congress person, it's like the day they get in, they start campaigning again. You know, we're getting these emails, we're getting these texts. Support us do this, do that. And there's this urgency and this obsession with time. And obviously in your case, there's an extreme obsession with time because you have so little, especially compared to everyone else. But I'm wondering what you think about sort of that juxtaposed with the feeling and the conversation of progress takes time and having to constantly tell the voter, quick, quick, quick, quick, quick, so that we can wait, you know, so that we can hope that Washington will push this through. How do you navigate that as someone who legislates and someone who, who represents people, but also is wanting of this support that is going to eventually take a long time?

[Kamala Harris]

You know, I think there are many flaws in our system. And you're right. I mean, members of Congress on the House side, their terms are two years, and when they're up for reelection, the biggest point that their opponent will make is, yeah, the only thing you got done was naming a post office box or post office. Right.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

But if you want to actually, if we want our legislators to come up with policy that actually can be implemented. Right. So that it makes sense, it's been well thought out, researched. It's not going to come. It's not going to come through its whole process within two years. And so there is something about the one aspect of the flaw is that we have this. We set these legislators up with an expectation that within two years they're going to get something substantial done. But anything that is intractable, that is challenging our society, I doubt, and I know this to be true, we're not going to figure out in just two years from soup to nuts.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Kamala Harris]

But we also have to give people more grace.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

And maybe that requires us to trust them. And they have to earn that trust.

[Tracy Thomas]

Of course, them being politicians.

[Kamala Harris]

Yes. And to give them the grace. And hopefully they earn our trust to do that so that they can actually dig deep on big issues and fix the problems that the American people face. And so that's one of the issues. I think the issue about time is also, I talk a lot about this. We expect that our leaders are going to have the plan. You know, that part of the book where I talk about it because my mother was a scientist.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

And. And you know, and scientists, like many academics, they don't operate expecting that everybody has the plan, uppercase T, uppercase P. Right. Instead, they encourage hypotheses. Right. Come up with a hypothesis and then test it out. Because we know the first time you roll it out, there is going to be a glitch, reconvene. Don't make the same mistake twice, but you're not going to be penalized for it because after all, it was a hypothesis.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Kamala Harris]

We want politicians to have the plan. They run on the plan no matter how flawed it is, and then they have to spend full time defending a flawed plan.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Kamala Harris]

So there's something about how we're doing politics right now in the way that we've set up expectations that is, I think, setting up reason, unreasonable expectations. We have a right to expect that our politicians are going to solve problems. I think we have to look at how the system is designed to ask, is it actually conducive to solving those problems?

[Tracy Thomas]

If you could wave a magic wand and make it different, how would you change that? What would be the answer to the hypothesis versus a flawed plan situation?

[Kamala Harris]

I think we would not expect that good public policy ends with an exclamation point because it rarely does. Yeah, we would encourage that there would be discussions about. And an open conversation about theories about how we will actually fix things and that we would allow for a certain level of humility instead of what we do, which is, I think, encourage arrogance in these people who are running.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, I mean, I think we even reward it in a lot of ways.

[Kamala Harris]

I think you. Yes, I agree with you.

[Tracy Thomas]

I think there's a sense of what a politician should be and a kind of personality that they should have. And that if politicians don't have that or they don't look that way or they don't present in that way, it's almost. They're immediately shut down. And I think, you know, we're seeing, I mean, we're seeing where that gets us. Right. Like we're in a situation now where we have a lot of really loud people saying a lot of different things, you know, on both sides with the level of arrogance that is just stunning because it feels so far removed from all the conversations that I feel that I'm having with my friends and family and that I think other people are having. There's just such a disconnect. And I do think a lot of it is just ego. But I guess on the flip side of that, the kind of person who wants to run for office in a lot of these ways, like, has to have a huge ego to be like, pick me, choose me.

[Kamala Harris]

You can have an ego because you believe in what you're saying and because you have, you know, we. I don't expect that people will be without ego because that all that's the. Right. That's the other thing. Right. You know, we Want people have a certain level of confidence. Because if you, if you believe in what you stand for, often especially if you're talking about the people who need support the most, you're going to have to fight for it. And if you don't have a healthy ego, you're not going to have the strength to be able to do that. But what I think is lacking is we are not encouraging a debate about what does strength look like, and rejecting the notion that the measure of strength is based on who you beat down, as opposed to the real measure of strength being who you lift up. Right. And right now, in this environment in particular, there are so many signals that are suggesting that the strong person is the one who knows how to beat people down, minimize people, depreciate people, marginalize people, as opposed to those who respect the dignity in other human beings.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. I mean, I think there's two issues, I think, in the campaign as an outsider that I think you highlight in the book that I think stick out to me as having been particularly challenging for your campaign. One of them was what's happening in Gaza, and the other was trans rights and trans people. And famously, the Trump campaign ran that ad during all the games about Kamala's for they, them, that whole thing. And I think the other side of it is this conversation about who was included, had a seat at the table when it came to Palestinians and the conversation of America and our allyship with Israel in the face of utter brutalization. And I think, you know, as I was reading the book, my big question, and I guess it's kind of on the topic of both of these things, is there's so much centering of sort of the, the aggressor, like the person with the power. And I feel like we're. We're leaving out so many people. I think, you know, the conversation when it comes to Gaza in the book, you know, you talk a lot about, like, there are Israel's, our allies, there's our friends. They're not doing things that we like, but they're still our friend. And it kind of ignores what's happening to the people. You know, if we're centering the. You know what I'm saying? And so I guess I'm wondering for you, because those feel like two big issues that came up. How would you have handled them differently? Is there a way that you see that maybe you misstepped or you missed what people were saying to you about them and you would go back and fix or readdress.

[Kamala Harris]

Well, you're right. To bring this up because that, again, is, I think, what has surprised people about this book. I'm very honest about my regrets and what, in reflection, I think I. Or we. But I will only speak for myself because that's where I have agency, where we could have done things differently. On the issue of Israel, I mean, listen, I don't regret that we said that Israel had a right to defend itself after the atrocities of October 7th. And I also said continuously. But how it does matters as I reflect on, especially as time went on after October 7, what we fail to do around, you know, we have great power and leverage. And I. And I regret that we did not exercise that leverage in a way that I think we could have. And I look at what's happening now in Gaza and I mean, my heart breaks. It has been breaking in terms of what is happening there. I gave a speech, again, I reflected on that in terms of. In the context of the campaign. I gave a speech a year and a half ago now, the first person at the highest level of the administration on the starvation in Gaza. It was at the foot of the Edmund Pettus Bridge at the anniversary of the commemoration of Bloody Sunday. And I took a lot of heat for it. But I look at what's happening now and it breaks my heart. It breaks my heart. And, you know, on the trans piece, it's just we can't condone an environment where there's. I mean, first of all, it's such a small fraction of the percentage of the population and who are living in such incredible fear. And I think it's important to recognize that. It's important to, you know, in the conversation. Yes. Let us please respect the right of parents to weigh in on their concerns about their children, their girls and in sports and all that. So I. Absolutely. And let's recognize that there is also an environment that is making this very, very small population of people, because of the way they're being vilified, live in abject fear. And I think we've got to deal with that. Part of my regret in the campaign is I should have pushed back more on what they were doing. Right?

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think the piece of the trans piece for me, and we're both from Oakland, we're both Bay Area people. So I sometimes growing up in a place like Oakland, I think I forget a little bit of what other people are feeling or seeing in the world because I. Not only was I raised in Oakland, but I was raised by some really incredible progressive humans. But I do think, you know, with the trans issue and the kids and the sports piece of. Has gotten so out of whack that, like, kids playing sports has turned into. It's okay to completely, like, attack and erase and do all these things. I mean, in the, in that section, you have numbers and you talk about, you know, this issue is both politics and people. And the people part of it is it's like there's 10, 10 people competing in women's sports who are transgender at the collegiate level. There are two people who had received the gender reassignment surgery in 2024, or not even the surgery, but just gender reaffirming care in 2024. Imprisoned. And that there was something like 3,000 people who had been targeted and 40%.

[Kamala Harris]

Here's the thing. I laid that out for a couple of reasons.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

Including this. How is it that one must ask. It became such a big issue.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, well, that's what I think. I mean. Yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

And yes. And I think that, you know, we have to really. We have to think about that. But.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Kamala Harris]

I think it was that there are many aspects of this campaign that really do highlight also, you know, that there were a lot of distractions from the issues. The biggest issue being affordability.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yep.

[Kamala Harris]

And you think about it, and this is part of why I wrote the book, to remind us of something, of many things. Including. Look, Trump ran on a campaign where he made so many promises to the people who voted for him, and he has broken so many of those promises. And we knew that was going to happen. He said he was going to bring down prices on day one. And you look at today, the cost of food is up, unemployment is up, inflation is up. Promises made and broken to people who believed him. And then you look at the promises that he made that he kept. Weaponizing the Department of Justice against his political enemies, retribution, silencing the media, putting military on the streets of America, lining his pockets and those of billionaires with a tax policy that is about helping the richest people in the country on the backs of working people. And because, of course, the promises he breaks are the promises where he benefits. Right.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

And then you look at what I mean, immigration, mass deportations. We knew what was going to happen. He told us. I was talking to a friend recently who told me she was talking to this gentleman who was a big Trump supporter, and he's Cuban and in Miami and his girlfriend, I don't know, common law wife, but his partner of 20 something years, who was also Cuban, is under deportation proceedings to be sent to Sudan. And so my friend says to him. Well, how do you think this happened? Well, he didn't say. He said he was. He said he was going to go after criminals. He didn't say this. Sure. Yeah. And so I think it's just really important for us to also, as we look at where we are right now in 2025 and think about what happened in those 107 days, we've got to remember that he told us what he was going to do.

[Tracy Thomas]

Right.

[Kamala Harris]

They told us what they were going to do and they're doing it. And as we look forward to midterms, as we look forward to any future election cycle, listen to what they tell us. And they've been. Because it's bigger than Trump.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

It's about a whole lot of people around him in elected office, in appointed office, who are facilitating an agenda that has been decades in the making. And I hope that one of the takeaways from this book is in reminding people of that, to remind us that the fight takes some time. But we gotta fight.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah. Okay, we're gonna take a quick break and we'll be right back. How is it September already? I literally have no clue. Hello, it is I, Tracy Thomas, host of the Stacks. You know, we're talking about books all the time over here. And if we're not talking about books enough for you, allow me to introduce you to the Stacks Pack on Patreon and my newsletter, Unstacked, Un on Substack. These are places where you can get inside access to the show. Not to mention my non fiction reading guide, which came out at the start of the summer, is only available until September 22nd, and you have to join one of these communities to get it. I'm just throwing that out there, but you might want to know, what is the Stacks Pack? Well, the Stacks Pack is a community for book lovers. We do book club meetups, we have a private discord. We do our mega reading challenge all year long. It's a place to help you push your reading goals, help you find new recommendations. Plus you get an exclusive bonus episode every month over on Unstacked. That's my newsletter. So that's me writing to you about celebrity gossip, hot takes, book recommendations. I even do a monthly nonfiction column and you also get that bonus episode. But even if you don't have a few dollars to spare, over on Unstack, there's a free option just for you. Listen, making this podcast is a huge team effort. And by supporting the Patreon and the Substack, you allow me to support myself and my amazing team, my assistant, my editor, all of us are able to make a living because of the incredible support we get from you all. So if you're Interested, head to patreon.com the stacks to join the stacks pack and go to Tracy thomas.substack.com to subscribe to the newsletter and listen. If you don't want to write that down, there's links for both of those in the episode descriptions because that is how we do it around here. So if you're looking to meet other book lovers, if you want to support this independent podcast, if you want to come hang out with me in the discord, go to patreon.com thestacks to join the Stacks Pack and go to tracy thomas sub substack.com to subscribe to the newsletter. And, you know, see you in the stacks, babes. Okay, I want to shift. Totally. So for people who are new to my podcast, who I assume will be, because you're here, thanks for being here. This is actually a podcast about books, believe it or not. And there's a few questions that I ask almost every author who comes on the show. One of them is, how do you write? How often? Where are you? Are there snacks and beverages? Are there rituals?

[Kamala Harris]

What.

[Tracy Thomas]

What is set the scene for us? How does this book come to be?

[Kamala Harris]

Okay, so first of all, just in terms of overall rituals, I pretty much. Other than having, like, tea in the morning, the first thing I have to do is work out.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay.

[Kamala Harris]

I don't do anything else before I've worked out. So that happens first.

[Tracy Thomas]

And you're an elliptical person and I'm reading the person.

[Kamala Harris]

Although recently I've been kind of trying to do a little weights with the treadmill, Whatever. Yeah. So there you. There's my.

[Tracy Thomas]

And what kind of tea?

[Kamala Harris]

Black tea with honey and lemon. With honey and some tea.

[Tracy Thomas]

Okay. I'm a black tea with half and half and sugar.

[Kamala Harris]

Really very intense. I was that person. Yeah, not any longer. But it is delicious. I get you. And then it's in my sweats, you know, shower and all that in my sweats at my desk. And I have my favorite blue pen. And you know, I'm old school that way. Like, just give me a yellow pad and a pen and I'm really happy like this. There you go. See, that's it. That's exactly it.

[Tracy Thomas]

I'm a black. I'm black ink. I like a black ink.

[Kamala Harris]

Well, I'm blue ink. I'm total blue ink. And in fact, people have made fun of me. Cause I have this one Favorite pen that is not. It's like it comes in a box. It's not like many of them. And people have made fun of me and I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna take that. Because if that's the sign of somebody who likes to write, yes, they have a favorite kind of pen. So I'm not gonna take that crap about, oh, she's got this fetish about that certain pen.

[Tracy Thomas]

No, there's very many people who have come on this podcast who have talked about a pen, a paper, whatever.

[Kamala Harris]

It's your writing tool.

[Tracy Thomas]

It's your thing, it's your job. You're writing. Okay, what about. What's the word you can never spell correctly on the first try?

[Kamala Harris]

It's really awful. I'm really embarrassed. I've never told anybody. There, the possessive there, all three you got there. No, I can do there. Like there, like there meaning over there.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yes.

[Kamala Harris]

But if I'm talking about there meaning those people there, that I and E mess me up all the time.

[Tracy Thomas]

I love this.

[Kamala Harris]

Right before E except after C. I love this.

[Tracy Thomas]

Honestly, the reason I asked this question is because I started doing this podcast years ago. And then I'm a terrible speller. Like, I can never spell anything. And I thought, you know, I bet some of these writers who I think are just so brilliant can't spell either. So I started asking this question, and it's one of my favorite ones because everyone is, there's either I can't spell anything or I have this one word, or, sorry to disappoint you, I won my spelling bee and I'm amazing. And usually those people, we boo, we're.

[Kamala Harris]

Like, no, it's like I and E. It just, yeah, it. On that one word, it's okay.

[Tracy Thomas]

We all have our flaws, you know.

[Kamala Harris]

Confession. Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

On this book, you worked with Geraldine Brooks, famous novelist.

[Kamala Harris]

Yes.

[Tracy Thomas]

I want to know, why did you want to bring her in? What were you hoping was going to happen with this partnership?

[Kamala Harris]

Well, first of all, let me say that through this partnership, we formed a really incredible friendship. I just, she's. She's an incredible human and, you know, she was this serious journalist. She's a serious writer, an award winning writer. And I wanted to work with someone who would get it, you know, who would understand the depth and nuance of the issues. But at the same time, it was really important for me to write a book that was not the run of the mill. Somebody who's run for office, writes a book, and it's, you know, whatever I wanted it to Read like a novel. And because that's how I experienced it, you know, that old kind of cliche about fact is stranger than fiction. It often is. It often is. And so writing it in a way that the reader will. Like I said, it's basically a book that is a political thriller, nonfiction. And so that's what it was. But I'm a huge fan of hers. I was a fan of her work even before we started it collaborating.

[Tracy Thomas]

What other books do you love? What are. What are. If you were going to do your Barack Obama book list, which I think you should. I think we need more politician book lists. I would vote yes. What would you put on yours? What are some of the best things you've read recently?

[Kamala Harris]

One of my. One of the books that I read recently that I just absolutely enjoyed is how to say Babylon. It's just an incredible book about a woman's journey. Again, it's. And it's. She's telling the true story about her own life and her family.

[Tracy Thomas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kamala Harris]

So that was great. I love that book. And then Master Slave, Husband, Wife.

[Tracy Thomas]

We did that for a book club here.

[Kamala Harris]

So I'm not finished with it, but I'm reading what I'm reading right now. That's a really interesting bed right now.

[Tracy Thomas]

I love it. Okay, before we get out of here, I want to ask you about the future. I think, you know, we. We started here talking about what scary time it is in our country. I think most people listening to this conversation are probably feeling similarly about that.

[Kamala Harris]

Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

What? Do what? You know, give us advice.

[Kamala Harris]

Be.

[Tracy Thomas]

Help us. What do we do? Where do we go?

[Kamala Harris]

First of all, I mean, part of what I realized at this stage of my life and career, that I am willing to confess, I don't have all the answers. It's driving me crazy, though. I don't have. I just realized I don't have all the answers right now, but I have some. And one of them that I've always known. We have to fight, and we have to know that the fight takes a while, but we cannot give up. We cannot let our spirits be defeated. Right. Then they're really winning. We cannot define our success based on any particular election cycle either. Right. And so part of what I want just everyone to remember is, you know, and this is part of what I hope the reader will take away is just to be reminded of that energy and that excitement and that hope, and that's in us. Nobody gave it to anybody who showed up or felt something about that time. It was in us. And it's still in us. And we're in a dark moment right now, to be sure. And it may get worse. Okay. But we each still have some light in us, and we got to tap into that and into the light in each other in a way that reminds us of our power and our ability to fight for what we know is right. We're fighting for something, not against something. And let's not be defeated. Let's not be defeated.

[Tracy Thomas]

And, you know, I have to ask the question that everyone's going to ask you, which is, are you running again for public office?

[Kamala Harris]

I am not focused on that right now. I've got my book tour. I'm really excited about that. I'm going to be traveling and talking with folks. I really do want to listen. I mean, that's one of the reasons I decided not to run for governor of California. I just. I want to be able to listen to people without asking them for something. Yeah, I'm not. I don't want to ask for your vote. I want to just. I don't want it to be transaction. You know, I just want to think people have a lot to say, and they're feeling a whole lot, and people are feeling a whole lot.

[Tracy Thomas]

I think you're right about that for sure. Well, here's my last question. If you could have one person dead or alive read 107 days, who would you want it to be?

[Kamala Harris]

My mother, of course. Yeah.

[Tracy Thomas]

Well, Madam Vice President Kamala Harris. This has been truly one of the great honors of my professional career and of my life. I am a supporter, I am a fan, and I'm just really honored that you took the time to come do a little book podcast. My goodness.

[Kamala Harris]

Well, thank you for doing this podcast. It's so exciting, and you're creating such a great place for community and for. For the exchange of thoughts and feelings and ideas, and we all need that right now. So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you.

[Tracy Thomas]

Thank you and everyone else. We will see you in the Stacks.

[Kamala Harris]

See you later.

[Tracy Thomas]

All right, y', all, that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you, of course, to Vice President Kamala Harris. What an honor. I'd also like to say, say a huge thank you to her amazing team, Liz Biber, Kirsten Allen, Julia Prosser, and Juan Dromgool. And don't forget, new episodes of the Stacks are out every Wednesday. The Sax Book Club pick for September is the Lilac People by Milo Todd, which we will be discussing on Wednesday, September 24th with Den Michelle Norris if you love this podcast, if you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com the stacks and join the Stacks Pack and check out my newsletter@tracy thomas.substack.com make sure you're subscribed to the Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts, and if you're listening through Apple Podcasts or Spotify, please leave us a rating and a review. For more from the Stacks, follow us on social media, Hestacks, Pod on Instagram threads and TikTok and check out our website at the stacks podcast.com Today's episode of the Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Wikeia Frielo. Our graphic Designer is Robin McRite and our theme music is from Tagirajis. The Stax is created and produced by me, Tracy Thomas Did I put the.

[Kamala Harris]

Clothes in the dryer? I hope they don't think I was.

[Tracy Thomas]

Snack Just Sleep already.

[Better Sleep App Narrator]

When your racing thoughts keep you up at night, it's tough to let go and get the rest you need. Better sleep can help. You might have heard of white or brown noise. There's a whole rainbow of color noises and they can help you calm your mind, reduce stress and sleep better. Like the green noise you're listening to now. With the Better Sleep app you can discover more color noises and over 200 soothing sounds, guided meditations and bedtime stories. High quality rest is vital to your mental well being and physical health. Calm your restless mind, conquer your day and sleep better at night. Download Better Sleep from the App Store or Google Play and start a seven day trial today because when you sleep better, you feel better.