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- [00:00]
A
And you know what, listeners, please comment on my Instagram if there's anything that's like Sequoia, if you don't like T.L. williams, Kennedy Ryan, if that's not for you, this might be more your vibe. Because I really do want to find romance that I like.
- [00:12]
B
I like love.
- [00:13]
A
I love love just like everybody else.
- [00:14]
B
I love love. Yeah, I love love just like everybody else.
- [00:18]
A
But I don't love those damn books. Yeah, there's something about the way characters are written in romance novels where I'm like, these aren't real people. Yeah, you're telling me that your entire life is revolving around.
- [00:30]
B
Around this Ro the problem I have too. Welcome to the Stacks, a podcast about books and the people who read them. I'm your host, Tracy Thomas, and today we are joined by Sequoia Holmes. She's the award winning host of the Black People Love Paramore and Freshly Popped Podcasts. Today we talk about her career and how she got into podcasting 10 years ago, why she wanted to make a podcast about the things black people love, and her incredible book club where they read only books by black women authors. Our book club pick for August is Fishtails by Nettie Jones, and we will be discussing that book on Wednesday, August 26th with Sequoia returning as our guest. Do you like the Stacks? Are you enjoying listening to it? Do you want even more bookish content? Well, babe, you're in luck. You can join our community, the Stacks Pack on Patreon and subscribe to my newsletter Unstacked on Substack. Each of these places offers different perks. On Patreon, you're going to find community conversations, virtual book clubs, and on Substack, you're going to get my hot takes on everything from books to pop culture, sports, news, whatever. And in both places, you can get a monthly bonus episode from me. Also, both places offer a free option where you can stay plugged into the Stacks even if you're not able to swing $5 a month for full membership. Head to patreon.com thestacks to join the Stacks Pack and check out my newsletter Unstacked at Tracy Thomas Substack. All right, now it's time for my conversation with Sequoia Holmes. All right, party people, I'm so excited. Today's guest is a person that I met in the podcast sphere when I was honored to be selected as a guest to talk about cults on the very amazing Black People Love Paramore podcast. I am talking today to the one and only extremely talented, perfect voice, human Sequoia Holmes, welcome to the stacks.
- [02:37]
A
What an intro. Tracy, thank you so much. Perfect voice. You're gassing me. Thank you so much.
- [02:43]
B
You have such a good voice, you know that?
- [02:45]
A
Thank you. And you, too. I'm sure you get that all the time.
- [02:48]
B
Well, also my voice. I lost my voice this weekend because it's my 40th birthday on Wednesday, and I went out on Saturday and Sunday. Of course, I'm like. I'm sounding like. I'm sounding like I'm 40.
- [02:59]
A
You're kind of like Kate from Love Island. I don't know if you've been Love Islanding. You're sounding. You're giving a little bit of Kate. That's. Her voice is great. Everybody likes her voice. That's what you said.
- [03:07]
B
Okay, I'm honored. I'm honored.
- [03:09]
A
Yeah.
- [03:09]
B
Okay, let's start where we sort of always start with these episodes. Will you just tell people, like, I don't want your professional resume. I want, like, a little bit of your backstory. Where are you from? Like, tell us a little bit about that, how you sort of got to where you are. And then I want to know a little bit about, like, when books popped into your life.
- [03:27]
A
Okay, cool. Well, I am Sequoia, a podcast host. I have two podcasts, Black People Up Paramore, and a daily pop culture show called Freshly Popped. Gosh, I've just been released from the trenches of Love Island. I don't know when this episode's coming out, but thank God that's done. I started podcasting in, like, 2016, 10 years ago, I had a job at a media company. It was called Attention, and they started a podcast. And for the first time ever, I was on a podcast. I had a mic in front of me. When I tell you, I felt intoxicated. I left. I felt more alive than I ever felt in my life. And I was like, oh, this is what I'm going to be doing. Thank you very much. And I have literally podcasts from that moment forward.
- [04:09]
B
So does that episode still exist?
- [04:11]
A
It sure doesn't. They got rid of that entire podcast. I also started hosting my own podcast out of tension. We recorded the whole first season. They never released it, so there was just lots of stuff going on that never. Never went there. But it did spark my interest, and so I started multiple podcasts since then.
- [04:29]
B
And where did you grow up?
- [04:31]
A
I grew up In Long Beach, California, L.A. county, right next to Orange County. So I always say it's, like, more of a mix between the two. It's not Los Angeles, but it is LA County.
- [04:41]
B
I didn't realize you were an Angelino. An Angelino Countian.
- [04:45]
A
Right. Accounting. Are you.
- [04:47]
B
I'm from Oakland, so I'm a Californian, but not an Angelina.
- [04:50]
A
I think I did know that. Yes.
- [04:51]
B
Yeah. You know, it's like, I feel like when you're from the Bay, I've lived here almost as long as I lived in the Bay, and I just could never, ever say that I'm an Angelino. I just could never do it.
- [05:00]
A
I totally get that. I could never say I was from somewhere I'm not from. You know, Like, I'm like, yeah, like,
- [05:04]
B
people who are, like, trying to be New Yorkers after 10 years, I'm like, it's great. But guess what? You. You were born in Little Rock, right? So you are a Little Rockian, and that's amazing. You're from Little Rock.
- [05:16]
A
There's so much history in Little Rock. Be happy to be where you're from. Everybody's happy to be. You know, everybody should be happy to be where they're from.
- [05:21]
B
My only, like, contingent on that, like, is if you grew up and your parent was in the army or your parent was a professor and you spent five years in Arkansas and five years in Seattle, and then I'm like, okay, if you then put roots down in New York, you could say, I grew up all over the place. But I've lived in New York for 20 years, so I consider New York home. Fine, but you're still not from New York, babe. You're still from wherever the you were born.
- [05:49]
A
Exactly. Exactly.
- [05:50]
B
That's great for you, and I love that for you. And I will. I. What I want more than anything is for you to love that for you.
- [05:56]
A
I want you to love where you're from. Like, what is the problem? To be fair, I also love New York down. And so New York is the one city where I'm like, I could see how you would deeply want to be from New York. You aren't. But, like, I could see how you deeply want to be there when people are doing it for other cities. I'm like, okay, you know, like, the cash, the social cachet, isn't even that worth it in the way that it is for New York, you know?
- [06:19]
B
I agree. I agree. I lived in New York for eight years. I went to college there. And so, like, you were saying when you sat down in front of a microphone and you were like, I am alive. That's how I felt. Every time I go back to New York, I am like Carrie Bradshaw waving at taxis, like, click, Clacking down the street.
- [06:38]
A
Yeah.
- [06:38]
B
And I still would never call myself a New Yorker because I'm not. And I'm also from an amazing place too. Like, lots of people want to be from the bay, right? So I'm just like, I don't have to. I've lived in three great places. I'm proud of. I'm proud of where I've come from.
- [06:53]
A
You know what, maybe it's because we're from cool places. I think that's quite. I'm from Long beach or, you know, at most I'll say Los Angeles if I'm depending on who I'm talking to.
- [07:04]
B
But I'm like, yes. Like, if I'm international and someone's like, where you're from? I'm like, California.
- [07:09]
A
I went to college in UC Santa Cruz. Do you consider that the bay or. No, I know, it's contentious.
- [07:15]
B
I consider Santa Cruz. Santa Cruz. Banana slugs though. Show up and show out.
- [07:19]
A
Hey, shout out.
- [07:20]
B
Yes, I love a banana slug. What about books? When do you remember falling into love with books? Because one of the things that I. The reason you're here is because when I did your show, we did an episode on Cult and at the end you were like, just, by the way, I love books. And I was like, oh, flagged it. And then of course, I took me forever to actually get you here, but it's now. So I, I didn't. But I didn't ask you any follow ups. I didn't. So I don't know anything about your book history relationship.
- [07:45]
A
When did I start liking books? I would say probably around middle school, I would guess. And I think I started with all the usual suspects, as many middle school girls did. I was reading the Click series. I was reading Pretty Little Liars. I was reading Twilight. I was deep into that. I did Series of Unfortunate Events. I did that. I think I did that one in elementary school. So it was just like the general pop books got it that I was into at that time.
- [08:09]
B
You're younger than me. And I know this because Twilight came out when I was like in college. I'm like, she's definitely like five to eight years younger than me. Did you have parents or did you grow up in a household with other readers?
- [08:24]
A
I certainly did not grow up in household with other readers. No. I never saw either of my parents read a book at all. Actually, you know what, my mom was in college, so she read textbooks.
- [08:33]
B
Okay.
- [08:34]
A
But she was never picking up a novel or anything of the sort. Oh, I also really liked. I just Forgot. I just remembered I always really liked self help books as well. My first self help book was 7 Habits of Highly Effective Teenagers.
- [08:46]
B
Oh, the YA edit.
- [08:49]
A
Uh huh. It was the YA edit. I loved that book. So, so bad. Really. It was by like something Cubby. Yeah. James C. Or Steve C. Cubby something. But yeah, it was fantastic. I tried to start a book club about it around it in, in high school and nobody gave a damn.
- [09:03]
B
And I was like, oh my God, I'm obsessed. So wait, if you didn't have anybody in your house modeling reading for you, where did it come from? Did a friend say, like, you have to read this book? Was there a teacher? Like someone must have been like, reading is fun, right?
- [09:17]
A
I don't.
- [09:17]
B
Because you weren't reading. Just like it wasn't like you fell in love with the book that you read in a class.
- [09:22]
A
No, I certainly didn't fall in love with the book I read. I did like the Giver. I remember liking the Giver in middle school as well. Yeah. In seventh grade being like, oh, this is actually a fun like mandatory assigned reading situation. In my middle school, reading was kind of a big thing. Like it was like the girls would all share the Click series. We would talk about it all the time. I remember trying to write a book. I was always a writer. I always enjoyed writing. And I think writing and reading kind of go hand in hand. So I was like, yeah, I'm also consuming and creating and consuming and creating.
- [09:50]
B
Oh my God. But you've always been super creative. You're like, you're an inspiration. Because I feel like you're always doing something new or like trying something. So that's always been who you are.
- [09:59]
A
Yes. Always been who I am. For sure.
- [10:02]
B
You recently, I hope this is okay to talk about, but you recently like had a professional sort of a bad patch. You got fired. Like things just like sort of fell apart for you. I mean, your whole thing got canceled. You didn't get fired, right? Everybody. Yeah, but you've like bounced back in an incredible way. And while I am interested both in your quote unquote failures and also your successes, I am actually more interested in your thinking about it in real time. Like this thing happens, you get fired. You're in a moment of like everything's falling apart. Maybe, perhaps it feels like that. How are you sort of like thinking about what comes next?
- [10:49]
A
You guys, I'm just gonna take you to the moment.
- [10:51]
B
Okay.
- [10:53]
A
Am getting ready for work on a, maybe a Friday. Getting out the shower. Have a phone addiction. A real bad Phone addiction.
- [11:01]
B
Okay, we gotta get you a break before.
- [11:03]
A
While I'm. I have a break. Thank you. While I am wet, I turn over my phone, I see an email that's like, regarding insert name of the show here. I'll just. I don't mind saying it if you don't care. You can say insert regarding the Daily Dirty. And I said, oh, that doesn't look like a good head. That doesn't look like a good subject line. I click into it and it's like, yeah, don't come into work today or you don't need to come in anymore at all. All of you. We're canceling. We're canceling it. It's like, oh, great. Literally maybe like two weeks before that, I had found out that my long term job was also coming to a close. They were getting rid of all contractors. I had been on a contract for five years getting rid of that too. And I was like, oh. I chose to think of it when it was happening. I was like, this feels like a sign. The fact that both of these things are happening at the same time. I've had two jobs consistently for years. Suddenly I have zero jobs. Both jobs end at the same time. That's really strange. I'm like, okay, this is clearly a sign that you are supposed to take it from here. You cannot keep leaning on that job. You're not working hard enough. You know, like, I decided to take it as a sign of that. I felt a little bit bad for myself, but not, not anything too deep. I felt a little bad for myself for a second because I thought I was gonna have to find another job. I talked to my partner, he was like, you're. You're good for a year. And I was like, oh, okay, I'm gonna take this year and really try to build something. And so then I started my own daily pop culture show. Because the Daily Dirty was a daily pop culture radio show. Yeah.
- [12:37]
B
And are you glad did it? Does it feel like it's been a blessing in disguise or are you not there yet? You don't know?
- [12:42]
A
Not there yet. Not there yet. I wouldn't say I feel, I feel twofold about it. I was working under Unwell, which is Alex Cooper's company. Sure. It. Working with Unwell was not particularly conducive to who I am as a person.
- [12:58]
B
Got it.
- [12:59]
A
So there was some tension there. But I thoroughly enjoyed getting paid a full time salary to work two hours a day and literally just go in and talk my. And then leave. Yeah, I really enjoyed that aspect of It. So I am trying to do that again in a much less unwell capacity, if that makes sense.
- [13:21]
B
Yeah, but you're the boss.
- [13:23]
A
Well, I'm the boss and I don't have to mince words and I don't have to worry about them not understanding my perspective because I'm the only black person that works there. You know, just things that I don't have to be so mindful of. I feel bad better about that. And also I'm not making a full time salary yet. And so once I make. I think once I figure out the money, I will feel fantastic about it.
- [13:42]
B
Right. But the other day you posted this great post about like all the things you've done since that and it was just like such a flex.
- [13:49]
A
Thank you.
- [13:50]
B
I just feel like I'll link to it in the show notes, but I just feel like I'm not. I am not LA in the sense that I generally am not. Like things happen for a reason or like I don't believe any of that stuff. I'm not very positive in the way that like LA people are. You know, like, I'm just like sort of. I'm sort of realistic about things, I think. Sometimes to my detriment. Like sometimes I'm like, I could never. And so I just don't try. But I feel like seeing you and sort of like watching you from a distance and like seeing that post, I was like, come on now. Like, she really just like manifested some shit for herself and like took it on the chin and just continued on. And I feel like that's really cool.
- [14:32]
A
That's what I'm trying to do. I really do feel like I took it on the chin pretty well. Like I did not feel too much despair. I wasn't too down on myself.
- [14:38]
B
And you didn't like post like, my life is horrible or like, like content of like an unemployed. Like, you didn't do the thing where it became like, this is who you are.
- [14:47]
A
No, I didn't feel like that. I just felt very much like I needed to be able to control something.
- [14:52]
B
Yeah.
- [14:52]
A
And what I can control is my output and what I create.
- [14:55]
B
Right.
- [14:56]
A
And so. And that's what I've always liked to do anyways. I'm good at creating. I like to create, so I just do it.
- [14:59]
B
Yeah. Do you have like creative hobbies that aren't podcasting?
- [15:02]
A
Ooh, good question. Do I have creative hobby? No, no, no. It's giving. The podcasting is my creative body. I really like makeup.
- [15:12]
B
Okay.
- [15:13]
A
And so I'll do makeup.
- [15:14]
B
Yeah.
- [15:15]
A
That's really probably creative. Yeah, it's a little creative. I've stopped being creative with. I used to be so creative about makeup, crazy eye looks and like really colorful situation. And now this is the exact face that I do every single day.
- [15:28]
B
Well, it looks good, but I don't think a lot of make like taking makeup off. Taking off makeup is far is. It always is worse for me than being pretty for a day.
- [15:37]
A
So I get that it is daunting. I have. What is it called? Bedtime procrastination. Revenge procrastinate revenge bedtime syndrome. That's what it is. I've never heard you feel like. It's like you feel like you don't. You haven't had enough time to yourself for the day and so you procrastinate going to bed or getting ready for bed and then you screw yourself and same thing happens the next day because you slept too late and blah, blah, strike a cycle. I. I have that really bad. So I always procrastinate taking my makeup off. I do hate to do it. It's not.
- [16:04]
B
I hate to do it.
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A
Hey.
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B
The only time I do this revenge procrastination is when I'm wearing makeup.
- [16:10]
A
That's very.
- [16:11]
B
If I have on a full face of makeup, I never want to go to bed. But if I just have. I mean, I rarely wear any makeup, but if I have like eyeliner and mascara on, that's easy, right? But if I was my foundation or like a powder on my face, never. I'm never going to sleep because I'm had to take this shit off and triple cleanse.
- [16:29]
A
Like, you have to make sure that it all comes off. You have to get that mycellar water in the eye, you know, like, it's
- [16:33]
B
just like a lot. It's just. It's a nightmare.
- [16:36]
A
I get that.
- [16:38]
B
Okay, we have to talk about Black People Love Paramore podcast. It's the greatest. Tell people what it is, tell them where it came from, and we'll start there.
- [16:47]
A
Great. Black People Love Paramore is a pop culture show not about the band Paramore. Contrary to the title, it's a show about the common as well as the uncommon interests of black people in order to help us feel a little bit more seen Double entendre on scene. If you get it, you get started because I went through a really serious emo phase in middle school. It was. I wore fingerless gloves. I wore ties every day. It was just very serious. And I thought I was the only one. I thought I was like, oh, black people don't listen to this. You know, I felt a little bit of shame about it. I would always, you know, be kind of quiet about it, and I was ridiculed for it. And so I. I thought it was something to be shamed about.
- [17:27]
B
Right.
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A
Only to become an adult and find out that literally so many of us were doing that. So many of us were doing that in quiet, and we all felt that shame. And so we couldn't even connect with each other when it would have been most useful to connect about it.
- [17:41]
B
Right, right, right. Do you know who Hanif Abdul Keeb is?
- [17:45]
A
I do. Hanif was on my podcast.
- [17:46]
B
He was. What did he talk about?
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A
Paramore. I was gonna say.
- [17:50]
B
I was like, he. Because he, like, has that book where he writes, like, being a black in the punk scene.
- [17:55]
A
Yeah.
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B
And I remember being like. It's like, he's got essays on it. I remember reading the essays and being like, cannot relate. Have no clue what this guy's talking about. That's before I knew him. Because I. I never. I have always been a very pop. And I mean that, both in the music, but also just, like, in my interest. Pop princess. I'm just like. I'm just a bright, shiny person. I never had that phase, though. I do love Paramore.
- [18:22]
A
Yeah.
- [18:22]
B
And during COVID I'll never forget my brother, like, discovered I can't remember the name of the song, but, like, the misery business.
- [18:29]
A
Yes.
- [18:30]
B
And he was like, have you ever heard this? And I was like, brady? And he was like, why? I. I've never heard this. And I was like. I was like. I think because your. Your show was on then, wasn't it?
- [18:42]
A
Yeah, no, it came out in 2021.
- [18:45]
B
Okay. But whenever Brady said this to me, your show was out, because I literally go, there's a podcast called black people love Paramore. Like, you think you're inventing something, and there's a show titled what you're feeling. It was when guy. It was when that guy, like, posted a video that went viral of him listening to Paramore. Maybe. Do you remember that? It was like a black guy in a car or something, and he was just, like, rocking out.
- [19:11]
A
Anyway, there's so many of those now. They all go viral, so it could. I have a lot of them.
- [19:15]
B
You've probably seen it. I feel like it was the first time I'd ever seen it anyways. I just remember being like, you're so dumb. Because, like, not only is this a thing that every black person knows, we all love Paramore and we love what's her name Haley Williams or.
- [19:26]
A
Haley Williams. Yeah.
- [19:28]
B
But, like, there's a show with this title.
- [19:31]
A
There absolutely is. Wait, how old is Brady?
- [19:34]
B
He's older than me. He's born in 1981.
- [19:37]
A
Okay, this makes sense. I was going to say, I don't know how he would have missed it, but it makes sense if he's a little bit older. That's all I was wondering.
- [19:42]
B
But I feel like that song was everywhere.
- [19:44]
A
It literally was everywhere. It was. For me, it was like I would turn on MTV in the morning when I was getting ready for school, and you know how they would have those music videos playing constantly. Misery Business was the one that always caught me. And then Crush, Crush, Crush got me too. And I was like, whoa, what's this?
- [20:00]
B
Yeah.
- [20:00]
A
And then they did decode for the Twilight soundtrack. And as I mentioned, I really.
- [20:04]
B
Twilight.
- [20:05]
A
I twilighted hard.
- [20:06]
B
Do you have a Black People Loves Paramore episode of Twilight? Twilight?
- [20:09]
A
I sure do.
- [20:10]
B
I've never read or seen a Twilight.
- [20:12]
A
Tracy. What?
- [20:14]
B
Well, okay, so I'm slightly older and I was in college or like, yeah, right out of college. So it was not particularly, like, cool of interest.
- [20:22]
A
Yeah.
- [20:23]
B
At that age, like, it was so, like. And I went to NYU and I was a theater kid. So it was like, oh, like. Like, yeah, I actually there was someone. We were considering doing Twilight for this podcast and maybe we will one day. But I've never read them and I don't like, I. I am a Hunger Games girly. Which was sort of around the same time, slightly later.
- [20:47]
A
Yeah.
- [20:47]
B
But I've also never Harry Pottered.
- [20:49]
A
I never Harry Pottered either.
- [20:51]
B
And now I won't.
- [20:52]
A
And now I won't. Now it feels like a part of my identity in a way where I'm like, yeah, no, I'm just not.
- [20:56]
B
And I don't really like. To me, it's like, I know people have Harry Potter feelings big and small. I know that it was meaningful to many people is meaningful.
- [21:04]
A
But.
- [21:05]
B
But for me, I'm too old to not know better about that woman. And so I'm just like, why would I now I do have children. I'm sure they're going to find out about it soon and they might want to read it. So I might end up having to read it. But, like, it's just. It's easy for me to be like, I don't Harry Potter, because I don't. I never. It never mattered to me because you never did.
- [21:27]
A
Yeah, right.
- [21:27]
B
So, like, I understand people who feel conflicted about it, but I just. I'm like, why would I support a turf now at my age when I could just read anything else? And I have a TBR of 7 million books, you know, But I'm surprised you have it because I feel like people like slightly younger than me. It was huge.
- [21:46]
A
It was.
- [21:46]
B
I. Because the movies were coming out.
- [21:49]
A
The movies were coming out. I watched the first movie when I was in second grade when it came out and I did not like it. And I think that was just my, my first being like, no, I don't. I'm not a Harry Potter person to do this. I would imagine if I read it as an adult, I would probably like it or enjoy it more than, you know, the movies when I was a kid. But yeah, like you said, now that I know who J.K. rowling is and what she stands for, why would I dive into that now? Stephenie Meyer has her own issues. The Twilight lady has her own issues. That's, that's, that's the problematic world that I live in already. I don't need to take on another one, you know?
- [22:23]
B
Yeah, I do know. I do know. Okay, we're gonna take a break and we're gonna come back and talk about books. It's certainly no secret that Cozy Earth has become my new favorite brand. I have spent the last few months raving about their dreamy bedding, their luxurious bathrobes, and of course their dreamy pajamas. And now I've been using their ultra plush beach towels. I am obsessed. Yes, Cozy Earth isn't just about elevating your at home relaxation. They're also bringing that high end, resort level comfortable to your outdoor summer adventures. For me and the Minis, that means all the pool days and the beach hangs we can possibly fit in. And these towels have become an absolute necessity. First of all, they're very cute. Mine have this orange and pink striped pattern. It's vibrant. The size of the towels are humongous, but more importantly, they're practical. They're made from a blend of cotton and viscose from bamboo, making them way softer and more absorbent than your average beach towel. They're designed to withstand saltwater and sand. And actually they get softer the more you wash them. Go ahead, ditch those old nasty, smelly, mildewy towels so you can get towels that you really want to use all season long. The best part, there's no risk. Cozy Earth backs your purchases with a 10 year warranty because they're that confident in the quality of their products. And if you change your mind, returns are hassle free. But take My word for it, they are worth the investment. Oversized, ultra plush and completely built. For your best summer days, head to cozyearth.com and use my code the stacks for an exclusive 20 off. That's code the stacks for an exclusive 20 OFF. And if you see a post purchase survey mention that you heard about Cozy Earth right here. Summer has been good to us over here at the Stacks. We have released the Non Fiction reading guide, we have celebrated my birthday and as always, we have released a whole bunch of bookish episodes with authors and readers. If you've loved hanging out with us and you find yourself craving even more from the Stacks universe, consider supporting us on Patreon and Substack. Making this podcast takes a whole village and by subscribing to both of these places, Patreon and Substack, you allow me to make the show, to work with my fantastic team and continue doing what we do best, which is talking books. And when you join, you yourself get some perks. On Patreon, which is really our bookish community, you have access hundreds of other readers in our discord. You get to be part of our year long reading challenge to push your reading goals and you get to attend our monthly virtual book club meetups. Then over on Substack, which you can think of more as a place for hot takes and pop culture analysis, you get my newsletter unstacked. Over there I'm giving you reading rankings. I'm talking about the books that are coming out and my weekly grownup show and Tell which has me recapping my loves and my hates from the previous week week. So that's what you get in each place. But there is some overlap on Patreon and Substack. You will have access to my non fiction reading guide from now until September 22nd as well as access to our monthly bonus episodes. I understand that paying for subscriptions might not be available to some of you and that's why in both Patreon and Substack there are also free tiers that can help you stay connected with the Stacks and get you some pretty cool bonus content. So head to patreon.com the stacks to join the stacks pack and subscribe to my newsletter at Tracy Thomas substack.com. Okay, we are back. So everybody, we're about to do Ask the Stacks, which is where you write in. You ask us for a book recommendation, tell us what you like, what you don't like. You email it to Ask the Stacks atthestacks podcast.com myself and my guests will respond with book recommendations I am normally an extremely prepared person, but for some reason today, when I was preparing for this interview, I just forgot to do this part. So you have not been prepped. I also have not been prepped. We're both going to read this email together on the fly and hope that we can pull it off. So this comes from Ann. Here we go. Hi, Tracy. I'm seeking recommendations for my 72 year old dad. I picked up an Essay Cosby book for him a couple years ago when he was stuck inside with COVID He loved it. He has read all of Essay Cosby's books and even went to see him at the LA Festival of Books last year. Now, my dad specifically wants to read more thrillers written by black authors because he loves these books so much. Mr. And even sci fi and fantasy are also welcome. They just need to be fast paced, propulsive. And bonus, bonus points if they're on the grizzly side. Lit fiction, literary fiction need not apply. Can you help us out? Mystery and thrillers are not my genre, so I'm not much help. Okay, so Anne and your dad, we're gonna come up with some thriller, sci fi. It sounds like heavily plotted books by black authors. Maybe on the grizzly slide. This is not really my bread and butter, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna come up with a few right now and I'll give you time to think and then you could just need to come up with one if you can. Okay, so Essay Cosby. I absolutely love the first book series that popped into my mind. It's called Highway 59 and Bluebird. Bluebird is the first one. And it is about a black police officer in Texas. He's like a ranger. He's a Texas Ranger and he's like solving murders and stuff. But it's also about him because he's like a flawed person, obviously. And I think that Attica Locke is one of the smartest writers on race in America that I have ever had the pleasure of reading. She's just like so sharp. She gets the dynamics. The first one is about like a white woman who turns up missing and who has like a secret black boyfriend or something. And he's trying to solve the case and he's all the, the cop is also like, facing racism within the ranks for like some of his bad behavior. It's really good. And it's a series, so if dad likes one, she'll, he'll have three in that series. But then Attica Locke has a bunch of other books and, and she writes really good thriller Mysteries. My second recommendation is a little bit, maybe more on the horror side. It's Tananarive Due's book, the Reformatory. She is one of our great black horror wr. She's based out of la. Actually, both of them are based out of la, Attica and Tananarive. But the Reformatory is like about. It's based on her family's story. She found out about her family's history of black children being sent to reform schools. Like, like how they also did that with indigenous children where they tried to like basically make you not black anymore by teaching. Like they take the kids away from their families. They live there. It was also like a form of imprisonment. If you've read Colson Whiteheads, the Nickel Boys, they were at a reform school and it's a horror novel about this reform school that she's made up. So that one. I have not read that book because I can't do horror. But you said grizzly, so I feel like maybe dad would be okay with that. Plus he's in his 70s, so the historic element I feel like would be great for him. The last thing I'm going to do is one of my favorite books that covers a lot of genres. Very fast paced, very violent. It is Nana Kwame Ajay Brenya's Chain Gang All Stars. Did you read that?
- [29:42]
A
No.
- [29:43]
B
Oh, I think you'd like it. It came out a few years ago. The premise is that it's a dystopian future for America where death row inmates compete on like fighting teams for a reality television show where if you fight and you win, you carry on. You can earn your freedom from death row. If you don't win, you die because you battle to the death. So it's basically like American Gladiators meets capital punishment reality show. Yeah, and it's fantastic. It is not a mystery or a thriller, but it is super fast paced and it's really smart, really well done and I think your dad would like it. So those are mine for you. And did you come up with anything? Sequoia, what do you have?
- [30:30]
A
I have one book called the Mysterious Death of Juanetta Plum.
- [30:34]
B
Okay.
- [30:35]
A
That one is written by a black author. I cannot remember her name off the top of my head.
- [30:39]
B
That's fine. Well, let's put in.
- [30:40]
A
This is. It is a mystery like a murder mystery. You're trying to figure out who done was a vibe. It was a vibe. It was a period piece. I can't remember the exact period. I'm not doing a good job explaining.
- [30:51]
B
It's Great. It's great.
- [30:52]
A
I can't remember the exact period, but it was a period piece, very black. Took place in New York City. Yeah, I like it a lot. That might be for you. And then when you say Grizzly, what comes to my mind. Yes. Is a classic parable of the Sower.
- [31:08]
B
Okay.
- [31:08]
A
I almost did Grizzly to me.
- [31:10]
B
I almost did Kindred, you know. Okay.
- [31:12]
A
I'm like. So if you have not Octavia Butler yet. Octavia Butler, now is an interesting time to pick up Parable of the Sower. Specifically.
- [31:21]
B
Yes. And you could tell dad that there is a Stacks episode. We did a book club episode on Parable of the Sower. So that is waiting for him to listen to if he wants to hear my dulcet tones.
- [31:32]
A
Perfect. Beautiful.
- [31:34]
B
And let us know how we did. If your dad reads any of them, if he likes them and everybody else, email. Ask the Stacks atthestacks podcast.com to get your book recommendations read on air. All right, Sequoia, you are in the hot seat. Tell me two books you love, one book you hate.
- [31:50]
A
Oh, two books that I love. I really like. I'll do a self help book and then I'll do a novel.
- [31:54]
B
Okay.
- [31:54]
A
I really like the War of Art.
- [31:59]
B
Okay.
- [31:59]
A
It's not the Art of War.
- [32:00]
B
Okay.
- [32:01]
A
Okay.
- [32:01]
B
The War of Art.
- [32:03]
A
It's a self help book about. For creatives. If you are creative in any capacity. If you like the Creative Habit. If you like the. The Artist. Rubin or Rick. Exactly. That. That Rick Rubin 1. Any of those books. This is gonna be even better low key.
- [32:19]
B
Okay.
- [32:20]
A
It is just about creativity at large. You can apply it to a lot of different things. Super small, quick, brief read. I read it a couple times. Like I've read it a couple times and maybe once every 5ish years I'll pick it up again and just get a refresher on it. Fantastic. If you are creative, even if you're not. I feel like everybody has some level of creativity in them. Great pusher. Love that one. And then there's this one. I'm gonna give you two more. Okay. There is this one book I read called Come and Get it by Kylie Reid.
- [32:52]
B
Ah, yes.
- [32:53]
A
Is truly I am a come and get it truther.
- [32:57]
B
I love that book so much. People who don't like it. I think there's something wrong with you hate it. They're wrong.
- [33:03]
A
So many people hate it.
- [33:04]
B
I hate that.
- [33:05]
A
And I'm like, why? What? You know what? I'm not gonna lie. I can see how someone can hate it. It depends on what you value in a book.
- [33:13]
B
Yes.
- [33:13]
A
I happen to value dialogue above everything else. I don't, I don't value story that much.
- [33:19]
B
Okay.
- [33:19]
A
I value dialogue above everything else. And then characters, how realistic or deep the characters are. Yes. Those are my two biggest things when reading a book. Everything else, I'm like, I don't. I couldn't give a damn one way or another.
- [33:31]
B
Okay. And you do love a messy character. You love mess.
- [33:35]
A
I like a messy. I do like mess. I like mess. But I don't like. What is a good way to put it. I don't like scary. Like, we're, we're like, people are a little too soft, a little too timid. That irritates me.
- [33:47]
B
Okay.
- [33:47]
A
So I like that in Kylie Reed's Come and Get it, you're reading from different perspectives. One of the girls is a little timid and I'm like, this is not my girl.
- [33:53]
B
Yeah.
- [33:53]
A
One of the girls is less like that. And you're like, oh, I really like her.
- [33:56]
B
Yes.
- [33:56]
A
And the way that they all interact is so realistic and so visceral. I'm like, I can these. She did incredible research.
- [34:05]
B
Yeah.
- [34:05]
A
For that novel. I think she did a really good job.
- [34:07]
B
I think she's. I, I am a big Kylie Reid fan. I read such a Fun Age and didn't love it.
- [34:12]
A
Okay.
- [34:13]
B
I loved Come and Get it, but I have. I was lucky enough to be in conversation with her for her book tour for Come and Get it. And like, hearing her talk about the work and like, how she thinks about it, I'm just like, she's just getting started. Like, she's going to, she's going to give us some like, like, like the growth between Such a Fun Age and Come and Get It. I'm just like, I cannot wait. I hope she writes non fiction. Like, she just sees the world in such an interesting way. Yeah. And I think part of what people don't like about Come and Get it or like, part of the reason people don't like Come and Get it is because I think she has really honed her audience to like, a certain kind of person. And if you don't, I feel like it's one of those books that's like, if you don't get it, you don't get it. And like, she wrote it that way. Like, so it's sort of like, oh,
- [34:58]
A
I'm telling you, Tracy.
- [35:00]
B
Yeah.
- [35:00]
A
I'm like, whoa, I know these people. Like, I genuinely know these people. I also like stuff that centers younger women. Like, it's not ya, but it definitely, like, you know, centers younger women.
- [35:12]
B
Yeah.
- [35:12]
A
And I really appreciate that in the book. I like girlhood, and it gave girlhood in, like, a really realistic way of.
- [35:19]
B
Yeah. Have you ever read Mary HK Choi?
- [35:22]
A
No.
- [35:23]
B
Okay. So she's written four books. Her first three are. They're ya, but they're actually like, new adult. One of them, like, they're in call. They're all like, in or post college.
- [35:34]
A
Perfect. That is my preferred age range.
- [35:37]
B
But she writes great dialogue. I. I actually jokingly call. Her and Kylie are two great maximalist writers because, like, they write so much detail and, like, it's like. It's not like they ate a chip. It's like, the specific kind of chip and what the. That felt like. I think you would love Mary. Her newest book is an adult novel that I don't think you would like as much as some of the first three because it's a little bit. It's a little more interior. It's like, a lot more about, like, what people aren't saying. And so what I'm hearing from you is you want more about what people are saying.
- [36:09]
A
Yes.
- [36:09]
B
So I think you would like these other books, but I feel like not only will you like Mary as an author, but I think you would love Mary. Like, she just. I feel like it's a vibe. She's great.
- [36:20]
A
Great. Oh, great. Because I've been chasing the high of come and get it since I read it. Like, what, maybe two years? Whenever it first came out is when I read it.
- [36:28]
B
Yeah.
- [36:28]
A
And I've been chasing that feeling. I was so impressed with her as an author. Like, truly. I was like, who is this lady? I had tried to write or I tried to read such a fun age a number of times at this point, I've sat down with it and it just can't catch me. I'm sure if I got past, you know, the first little portion of it, I might be in. But for whatever reason, that one just can't catch me. But people love it. I know that people love that one as well, so I assume I'd like it, but come and get it. My God, the way that she writes, the detail that she includes, the detail in the dialogue that she includes. I'm like, these people are materializing before my eyes as we speak.
- [37:07]
B
Yes. Totally agree.
- [37:08]
A
It's insane.
- [37:10]
B
Did you think of your third love?
- [37:12]
A
I am looking for it in the. I'm looking for it in my book club thing. We read. It was a Halloween book or it was a book that we read around Halloween.
- [37:19]
B
Time.
- [37:20]
A
Damn it. I'm gonna know as soon as I get off of here. I'm gonna know. I'm gonna be annoyed anyways.
- [37:26]
B
It's okay. Maybe it'll come to you.
- [37:27]
A
I gave you enough.
- [37:29]
B
What's the book you hate?
- [37:31]
A
Oh, book that I hate. Hate feels strong, but I don't like. Who are the two romantic black women? There's, like, Kennedy Ryan. It's. It's Kennedy Ryan. And the. And Tia Williams. Yes, it is. Kennedy Ryan's one of her three book trilogies about.
- [37:53]
B
Oh, yes, yes, yes. The Skyland series.
- [37:56]
A
The Skyland series.
- [37:57]
B
Before I let go. This could be us. Can't get enough.
- [38:01]
A
Read all three, don't like it. Read all three. Don't like it. These books make me realize I am just not a romance girly. Because if this is the best of the best, and I hear that she really is the best of the best.
- [38:14]
B
Okay, here's what I'm gonna say back to you. My romance listeners are gonna get mad. They want you to find a romance book you like.
- [38:20]
A
I want to find one that I like, too.
- [38:21]
B
And there are romance books for you out there. Okay?
- [38:24]
A
Okay.
- [38:24]
B
They exist. I sometimes think what romance readers like in romance is different than what people who do not identify as romance readers. So it's harder to get. Find your right book. But I don't particularly care for. Have you. Wait, did you read. You made a fool of death with your beauty?
- [38:46]
A
I didn't see.
- [38:48]
B
I think you would like that because that's a messy romance.
- [38:51]
A
Okay, I like. Okay, I do like messy romance or I like messy. I don't know if I like messy romance, but I like.
- [38:56]
B
Well, I don't know. It's messy. It's one of my favorite romances. But a lot of romance people say it's not even a romance because it's unclear who the main love interest is, which lets you know about mess. That's what I'm saying. So sometimes I think, like, true romance that's, like, embraced by romance community is sometimes not what people like us like because we're a little bit outside. We haven't quite bought into, like, the regulations of romance. I've never read Kennedy Ryan, so I can't say I. I like Tia Williams. I like Seven Days in June quite a bit.
- [39:29]
A
I didn't like Seven Days in June.
- [39:30]
B
Okay, I like that one. But that was one of the first romance novels I read, and I was like, like, oh, I don't hate this. That was, like, the first time I read a romance novel and was like, sure, sure, sure. But, you know, I just. There is. There is a romance novel for you. That's what they tell me. And I have found some that I like. Did you. Have you ever read historical romance?
- [39:47]
A
No. No. Historical romance.
- [39:49]
B
So we did Indigo for book club earlier this year by Beverly Jenkins, who's like the. The mother of black romance novels. She's like. She's like the OG And I sort of loved the historical romance because it's kind of campy, and it's like, it's not. I feel like part of what I don't like about contemporary, especially black romance, is I'm just like, well, that's not how it is. And this. I was like, oh, we're on the Underground Railroad. Like, it's like, oh, that's fun. You know, like, it's kind of fun. And, like, the. The man is, like, high yellow, like, his family. Like. Like, it's like the whole thing. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, the whole thing. And she's like. Like, she's.
- [40:29]
A
She.
- [40:30]
B
She's a conductor on the Underground Railroad, and so is he, and, like, he can pass and, like, I don't know. It's like a whole thing that sounds very much like it's like what you imagine, like, romance novel. And so it's sort of fun in a way that, like, if it was contemporary, I might be like, okay, like, sure, right. Like, I'm just like. I suspect my disbelief is suspended enough to get me here. And so that worked for me a lot more. Even though there are parts where I was like, yo, never.
- [41:02]
A
Oh, okay. No, that sounds great. I would give that a try. And you know what, listeners, please comment on my Instagram if there's anything that's like, Sequoia, if you don't like T.L. williams, Kennedy Ryan, if that's not for you, this might be more your vibe, because I really do want to find romance that I like.
- [41:17]
B
I like love.
- [41:18]
A
I love love just like everybody else.
- [41:19]
B
I love love.
- [41:21]
A
Yeah, I love love just like everybody else. But I don't love those damn books.
- [41:24]
B
Books, yeah.
- [41:25]
A
It's always like, I don't. There's something about the way characters are written in romance novels where I'm like, these aren't real people.
- [41:33]
B
Yeah.
- [41:34]
A
You're telling me that your entire life is revolving around. Around this romance?
- [41:38]
B
This is the problem I have, too. I'm like, I just. You want me to believe, and then, like, lots of problems could just be solved with, like, a text message.
- [41:48]
A
Feel me? Like, I'm like, Do we like clarity or we don't? Like, like I'm confused or like sometimes
- [41:54]
B
it's like their phone ran out of battery and I'm like, you're really gonna break up a three year marriage over your phone running out of battery? Like, I'm just like, this is just not realistic. Like you own property together.
- [42:04]
A
Right? Right. What? And they don't get me started in the sex scenes. And this is why I'm not a smut girl either. Because I'm like, I actually don't. I don't ever need a sex scene and I'm not in a prudish way. I just don't. It does not. It never furthers the. Anything happening and it doesn't give me better insight in the characters. It never does anything.
- [42:21]
B
Okay. Okay. So you're a closed door romance reader. That's what they call that.
- [42:25]
A
Like, it's like.
- [42:28]
B
Yeah, right. Okay. I think you'd like Indigo because it is. I mean, there are some like, I. Now I really want you to read it, actually.
- [42:36]
A
Okay, I'll definitely read it.
- [42:37]
B
I feel like you might like it. What are you reading right now?
- [42:41]
A
Oh, right now I am reading Mara Brock Akil's book, the something something of Dion Daphne, the new one. Really? The new one. And I'm having a good time with that. I like the way that she writes characters. I like the way that she writes dialogue. So having a good time.
- [42:54]
B
And you're in an in person LA book club. All black women.
- [42:59]
A
All black women.
- [43:00]
B
And you read all books by black women?
- [43:02]
A
Only books by black women? Yep.
- [43:04]
B
What a beautiful thing.
- [43:05]
A
That's good.
- [43:06]
B
The best book you've read for book club.
- [43:08]
A
It's Come and Get It. That's the one that I read for book club. Huh. And then we also read something by Akwaeke Amezi. A Messi.
- [43:15]
B
That's. Who wrote, you made a fool of death with your beauty.
- [43:17]
A
Made a death. Maybe I did. Maybe I read it. I know that I read something else by Akwaeke and I was. I really liked it. I remember really liking the way that Akwaeke writes.
- [43:26]
B
Okay, well, if you haven't read it, you should read it. I think this could be a romance novel for you.
- [43:30]
A
Okay.
- [43:31]
B
Do you set reading goals for yourself?
- [43:34]
A
I don't set reading goals. Well, you know what? That's a lie. I do. Do I ever meet them? No.
- [43:38]
B
What kind of goals do you set?
- [43:40]
A
I just try to read one book a month.
- [43:42]
B
Okay. And that's great.
- [43:44]
A
I try to do one book a month and I usually do about half that. So I usually get through about six books a year.
- [43:49]
B
Okay. I love this for you. Well, you have to read at least one book in August because we're reading Fish Tales by Nettie Jones. Do you know anything about this book?
- [43:58]
A
I know nothing about the book. We read it for book club and I missed that month and so I didn't read it.
- [44:01]
B
Oh, okay. This is perfect. You're catching up. Well, for people at home. One of the important things to know about that book is that it was acquired by Toni Morrison. Toni Morrison is the editor of Fish Tales. Yeah, yeah. And it was rereleased, I believe, last year, but it had been like out of print for decades. And it's about a woman who is, from my understanding, I've not read the book yet, a woman who behaves badly. There are. There's lots of sex, there are drugs. It's in New York City and Detroit. I am told she is a real mess. I'm very excited to read this book, but that's pretty much all I know. It's set in the 70s, so it was a contemporary novel at the time. And there's going to be some questionable decisions and plot points from my understanding.
- [44:54]
A
Okay, I'm really excited to read it. I love mess. I love A Messy Woman especially. That is my favorite, A Messy Young Woman. Because haven't we all been.
- [45:04]
B
Yes. You loved Luster, right?
- [45:06]
A
Oh, I didn't read that.
- [45:08]
B
Oh, my God. You have to read it.
- [45:10]
A
I will if it's something I would like. I love all of your suggestions. Thank you so much. Because I'm like, yeah, tell me. Because I really want to find stuff that I like.
- [45:18]
B
We also did that here on Book Club because I love. I love this genre. I don't love fiction as much as I love non fiction, but my favorite fiction is Young Black Woman Behaving Badly, like obsessed. I love Danzy Senna who writes those books. I don't know if you read new people or a colored television, but she writes those also. You'd like new people. I don't know if you'd like color television because it's like a middle aged woman in color television.
- [45:41]
A
I could do middle aged, but it's
- [45:43]
B
Hollywood, so you might like it because you know la.
- [45:45]
A
I am here.
- [45:47]
B
Okay. Do you have a favorite bookstore?
- [45:49]
A
It is Reparations Club in la. That is my favorite bookstore.
- [45:52]
B
Same.
- [45:53]
A
Yeah.
- [45:55]
B
Do you organize your books?
- [45:57]
A
I don't organize my books currently on our bookshelf. Me and my fiance share our bookshelf. Of course we have it Organized by. One row was mine, one row is his.
- [46:06]
B
Got it.
- [46:06]
A
Was mine. And it's really clear. Who's this?
- [46:08]
B
Who got it. Do you guys have any overlapped shared books?
- [46:12]
A
Oh, one of my favorite books that I forgot to mention is between the World and Me.
- [46:15]
B
Oh, sure.
- [46:16]
A
And we have three copies of that because one of us had two. One of us had one. I don't know. But we both love that book.
- [46:22]
B
That's another book we've done on book club here when we first started. That was, like, within the, like, 2019, maybe. Do you have any genres that you don't read besides romance?
- [46:32]
A
I generally don't read fantasy with the exception of Twilight when I was a kid. But, like, the. The fairy fantasy situation right now isn't calling to me. And I also don't read smuts, but that's because I haven't tried it.
- [46:47]
B
Right. I've never read any of the, like, fairy smut books, but my best friend read, like, the first one of one of them, and she was like, they weren't even. I was like, wait, I thought the whole point was that the fairies be. And she was like, they weren't.
- [47:01]
A
Tracy. What? I don't know.
- [47:03]
B
Maybe it happens later. She read whatever. The Court of Rose and Thorns. I think.
- [47:08]
A
Yes. Yeah. A Court of Rose.
- [47:10]
B
Maybe she read the fourth. The fourth season. I don't know. She read whatever. Fourth Wing. Rebecca Yarros. She read either the first Rebecca Yaros or the first Sarah J. Moss.
- [47:22]
A
Okay.
- [47:22]
B
I can't remember which one, but she was like, no, it's like 600 pages and there was no fairy sex. I think you should do a black people love paramore episode about the fairy sex.
- [47:32]
A
No. You're so right.
- [47:33]
B
Is there. Are there black people who like it? Maybe there aren't.
- [47:36]
A
There are.
- [47:37]
B
Okay.
- [47:37]
A
There are. I know some.
- [47:39]
B
You should do it. I'd love to know why the black people like it.
- [47:43]
A
Me too. I'm sure it's this suspended disbelief, whatever. The whole.
- [47:47]
B
Yeah, very. I would listen to that.
- [47:49]
A
Or not.
- [47:51]
B
What's the last book that made you laugh?
- [47:54]
A
Last book that made me laugh. Do I laugh at books? I don't. I don't know that I've laughed at a book out loud. Yeah, I don't know that I have.
- [48:04]
B
What about a book that's made you angry?
- [48:06]
A
Parable of the Sword. Definitely made me angry. Yeah.
- [48:08]
B
What about a book where you felt
- [48:09]
A
like you learned a lot between the world and me? For sure.
- [48:13]
B
Yeah.
- [48:13]
A
I'm like, oh, this told me a lot about the black male Experience. I've never read something from a black man's perspective in first person ever. And I was like, wow, this is really enlightening and humanizing.
- [48:25]
B
Is there a book that you've never read that you feel sort of, like, embarrassed about never having read?
- [48:31]
A
I feel embarrassed about never having read Harry Potter at this point.
- [48:34]
B
You do? Like, I don't. I'm like, fine.
- [48:37]
A
It right now. Now it's part of my identity. But, yes, I feel like everybody's like, sequoia. It's so on brand for you. Like, why haven't you. Like, why haven't you read it?
- [48:44]
B
I'm just like, well, in protest.
- [48:46]
A
And now she's trash. I'm not doing, like, sorry.
- [48:48]
B
I believe trans people have rights. Like, insane. Hey, hate. So embarrassing to believe people.
- [48:54]
A
Right?
- [48:57]
B
Well, what about a book you love from childhood? Any that you haven't mentioned?
- [49:01]
A
What book did I love from childhood? I liked the Babysitters Club.
- [49:05]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [49:06]
A
I remember really liking the Babysitters Club.
- [49:08]
B
You know, they've, like, redone the covers for those books and they look like comics and it's so annoying to me. I hate it.
- [49:14]
A
Joking.
- [49:14]
B
It's not those, like, beautiful, like, watercolor illustrations of, like, right? No, they're like. It's like they look like stick figures.
- [49:23]
A
More.
- [49:24]
B
It's like. I think it's trying to be in conversation with, like, Diary of a Wimpy Kid and like, oh, no. And like, what is that the guy's name? Like the.
- [49:31]
A
The Captain Underpants?
- [49:33]
B
Yeah.
- [49:34]
A
Yeah.
- [49:34]
B
It's not. It's like a. More like that style. Not fully, but, like, more. Just Google it.
- [49:41]
A
Are you anti that? I'm. I'm certainly about to Google it. Oh, my God.
- [49:46]
B
I know. Isn't it?
- [49:47]
A
This is insane. I'm looking at the original. The original version, too. With the blocks as the letters.
- [49:54]
B
Yes, because the original, it's like they're like paintings, but they also look like photos. Yeah, they're just like, really high art. The other ones and the new ones, I was like, not.
- [50:05]
A
No. Right. You guys don't get it.
- [50:06]
B
Sorry. We had taste in the 80s and 90s.
- [50:09]
A
I mean, it, you children. My books were so. Those books were so beat up when I got them too.
- [50:13]
B
Like, oh, my God. Yeah.
- [50:14]
A
They have been passed down and passed down like my cut. My older cousins all had them and I got them and I was obsessed.
- [50:19]
B
Were you an American Girl book? Girl?
- [50:21]
A
I was not American Girl at all. No.
- [50:23]
B
Oh, my God. Those were so meaningful to me in my childhood.
- [50:27]
A
Really?
- [50:27]
B
I read all I was I was a kid with the original five. And then as I got slightly out of it, they introduced, I think, Josefina.
- [50:38]
A
Oh.
- [50:38]
B
Who was like, maybe, like. I don't think she was indigenous. I think she was, like, Latin. I think she was, like, in what became, like, California, New Mexico. But it was like, at that time, I never read them. So that's why I don't know her full life story. Like, as opposed to, like, Felicity. I know everything that ever happened to her. Like, obviously, Samantha had a tragic upbringing, but a rich, like, family member.
- [51:00]
A
Oh, my God.
- [51:01]
B
But I like the Addie cookbooks. I used to make the skillet apples from that cookbook and the harmony grits.
- [51:09]
A
Oh, I had Addie. I did Addy. I read the Addie book. That was the only one that I read naturally.
- [51:13]
B
Yes.
- [51:13]
A
And I was like, oh, I don't like this. This isn't fun.
- [51:16]
B
Yeah. I. I remember when I read the Addie books being like, why is this such a. And everybody else is like, Felicity was like, jumping on horses. And, like, obviously Molly had struggles. She had a victory garden or whatever. Like, she couldn't go to the store. But I'm like, we are underground railroading here, people. We are in the depths of despair. And, like, it just. It was different. I also hated Kirsten. She was my least favorite by far. She was like the blonde who went snowshoeing and just like. I don't know, she was like. She wore like a. She wore that, like, crown with candles for Christmas. I think she was like, Swedish or something. I don't know. I hated her. I'm sorry, Kirsten. They didn't do you right. Tough break. Anyways, I think. I think maybe American Girl was even more important to me than Babysitters club. Wow.
- [52:05]
A
You were really deep in American Girl. Did you go to the stores and stuff? Like, were you, like. Did you get. The dolls were.
- [52:11]
B
Slightly after I had full. I had not Felicity. I had Addie, but I had a best. I had two girl best friends. One of them was rich. So she had Molly and Samantha because she had brown hair.
- [52:22]
A
They were expensive.
- [52:23]
B
Yeah. And then my other friend who had sort of reddish hair, had Felicity. And I remember always being so jealous because I think Felicity best dresses.
- [52:30]
A
Huh.
- [52:31]
B
Personally, Samantha had great dresses, too, but Felicity had a little more style. Like, her main outfit, it's just like a great print, you know, she was. She was our 1776 girl. She was a New America is born. And I just really love that about her, Addie. I loved the pink dress, her little boots. I Just. I was into it. We were into. We would like, play dolls in. In elementary school and be like, I'm coming over with my. Like, I'm bringing slavery era.
- [52:58]
A
Right?
- [52:59]
B
Like, I would be like, okay. What would happen if these two dolls interacted, though? I didn't know what would have really happened.
- [53:04]
A
Wow.
- [53:05]
B
But we. We made up stories. It was like, come on, let's go. Like, wow.
- [53:09]
A
If we let kids rule the world, man, I know. Like, world be a better place. I found the name of this damn book.
- [53:15]
B
What is it?
- [53:16]
A
It's called Bad Witches. No, it is called Bad Witches. It was really that simple? Yeah. It was great. By someone named H.B. akumia.
- [53:28]
B
Okay.
- [53:28]
A
Yes. And I think that was her first novel. I followed her on Instagram and have been harassing her, unfortunately being like, hey, girl. Because it ends on a. Like a cliffhanger.
- [53:37]
B
Oh, you're like. I'm like, hey, girl.
- [53:40]
A
Where's the second one? Waiting for that. It really is fantastic. I wish more people knew about it. I love black girl witch things. Halloween spooky season. And it's not scary at all. It is just fall witchy.
- [53:52]
B
I love it. Okay, I have like three more questions for you, then we're done. One is, how do you like to read? What's your ideal reading setup? Where are you? How, like, what time of day? Snacks and beverages set the scene.
- [54:05]
A
I think I'm gonna answer this in two ways. I read best on a plane. Same when I am totally undistracted and I have hours to kill. I am locked. Yeah, the heck in on that book. If I am not on a plane, I have a Kindle an hour before bed.
- [54:23]
B
Okay.
- [54:23]
A
I go on my an hour. I try to give myself an hour before I need to go to sleep. I will lay there, get through as many pages as I can, do the same thing the next night.
- [54:33]
B
You don't fall asleep reading at night?
- [54:35]
A
I try not to fall asleep reading. It is really difficult. Reading does feel like taking melatonin. Like, I'm like, oh, my God. But I try to stay awake so I can get through. You know, that's how I do my book club reading and do all the reading that I need to do.
- [54:48]
B
And do you have snacks and beverages ever when you read?
- [54:51]
A
If you did, no snacks, no beverages. Usually because I'm in bed, I'm not snacking or bevving. And if I need to do that, because some days I'll just spend a Sunday reading. If I really want to get through this book, I'll just spend a Sunday reading. I'll take snack and bevy breaks and that'll be my. Those will be my eye breaks.
- [55:06]
B
But not. You're not like popping popcorn and.
- [55:10]
A
Oh, I'm never popping popcorn. No. I also live with a Virgo who won't let me eat in the bedroom.
- [55:14]
B
I don't eat generally.
- [55:15]
A
I'll be reading in the bedroom. I. I will eat in the bedroom when he's out of town.
- [55:19]
B
What's your sign?
- [55:20]
A
A Gemini.
- [55:22]
B
Okay.
- [55:22]
A
Okay.
- [55:22]
B
Okay. I love this for you guys.
- [55:24]
A
What's yours? Tracy?
- [55:25]
B
I'm a Leo. Oh.
- [55:28]
A
Oh, yeah. Happy birthday. You have. You did say that your birthday is coming up. Yes.
- [55:32]
B
Okay. If you had to require. If you were a high school teacher, you can pick the subject. You can pick whatever you want. What's the book you would assign to your students?
- [55:43]
A
I'm assigning A Brave New World. Oh, that feels really pertinent for today. It feels like it's been pertinent since I read it in high school.
- [55:51]
B
I've never read it. Did you like it in high school?
- [55:54]
A
I liked it in high school. I remember liking it a lot. Yes. We got to choose what we wanted to write our final essay for in AP English, and I chose that.
- [56:02]
B
Okay. Okay, last one. If you could require the current president of these United States of America to read one book, what would it be?
- [56:11]
A
Whatever book sends him to hell the quickest.
- [56:13]
B
Okay.
- [56:14]
A
But
- [56:17]
B
maybe you give him some like aggressive smut and it's just like.
- [56:20]
A
Take like a heart attack. Yeah, right. Like a heart attack. Yeah. Maybe I'll give him the fairy smut. Or maybe I'll give him the Constitution in book form. You know, something that I know he's never read. Yeah.
- [56:32]
B
Something he's never read.
- [56:33]
A
For sure. Yeah, for sure.
- [56:35]
B
Well, Sequoia, you are amazing. Thank you for doing this, everyone. Sequoia will be back to discuss Nettie Jones's fish tales on August 26th. That's when the episode will drop. There will be spoilers. So you better read it with us if you want to get a copy of the book. If you go to Reparations Club, website rep club and search for the book and type in the code stacks 10. You can get the book 10 off and support a black woman run bookstore right here in la. They'll send it to you. You don't have to be here.
- [57:09]
A
So, yeah, love that.
- [57:10]
B
Do that Sequoia. We're going to link to everything you do. Give her show a listen, her shows a listen. And everybody else, we will see you in the stacks. All right y', all, that does it for us today. Thank you so much for listening and thank you again to Sequoia Holmes for joining the show. Our book club pick for August is Fish Tales by Nettie Jones, which we will be reading with sequoia on Wednesday, August 26th. If you like this podcast, if you want inside access to it, head to patreon.com the stacks and check out my newsletter at Tracy thomas.substack.com make sure you're subscribed to the Stacks wherever you listen to your podcasts and if you're listening through Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave us a rating and a review. For more from the Stacks, follow us on social media at the Stacks pod, on Instagram, Threads and YouTube and you can check out our website@thestackspodcast.com this episode of the Stacks was edited by Christian Duenas with production assistance from Sahara Clement. Additional support was provided by Sheree Marquez and our theme music comes from Tagirajis. The Stacks is created and produced by me, Tracy Thomas.