Unabridged: A Conversation Between Friends with Jason Reynolds and Hanif Abdurraqib

Summary

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The Stacks Podcast

Unabridged: A Conversation Between Friends

Guests: Jason Reynolds & Hanif Abdurraqib
Host: Traci Thomas
Date: September 19, 2025

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Episode Overview

This special Unabridged episode, recorded live at the Mississippi Book Festival, features acclaimed authors Jason Reynolds and Hanif Abdurraqib in conversation with host Traci Thomas. Titled “A Conversation Between Friends,” the panel is just that—an intimate, playful, and insightful exploration of the authors’ recent and upcoming works, their creative journeys, the experience of returning to earlier projects, and how their own favorites line up (or don’t) with reader favorites. The conversation is rich with authenticity, self-reflection, humor, cultural touchstones, and the unique perspective you get only when close friends talk shop.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Revisiting Earlier Work

[04:31 – 09:50]

• Why Jason and Hanif Are “Going Back”:
  • Both authors’ next books are returns to previous territory: Reynolds with “Coach,” a new addition to his Track series, and Abdurraqib with a new book of poems.
  • Jason Reynolds shares his initial hesitancy about returning to the Track series:
    • He felt pressure from fans and teachers for “Coach’s” story.
    • The main challenge: writing about Coach’s past means the beloved kids from the original series aren’t present.
    • “If I write Coach’s story, then all the characters that you’ve come to love won’t exist because they weren’t alive when Coach was a kid.” (Jason, 04:43)
    • Navigating a historical setting for young readers is tricky—balancing relevant pop culture references and significant social context (like the crack epidemic in 1988).
    • Ultimately, he felt the story “germinating” and decided he wanted to do it, despite hesitation.
    • “At some point, all that matters is I like it… But it really was a struggle for me to make that decision.” (Jason, 06:21)
  • Hanif Abdurraqib discusses his return to poetry after “Fortune for Your Disaster”:
    • He’s never stopped writing poems, and poetry infuses all his work, even nonfiction.
    • His new poems wrestle with difficult personal history—surviving while losing many friends young.
    • The new book is more deeply challenging than “Fortune for Your Disaster,” which he describes as “run of the mill breakup book—maybe not run of the mill, because most divorce books by men are kind of punishing… I was trying to be a little more introspective.” (Hanif, 08:24)
    • The challenge now is finding “bewilderment and joy” in survival:
      “It’s a much harder book to reckon with. But I’m having an incredible time. It’s going to be bizarre when the poems trickle into the world because people will be like, ‘these are so, so sad.’ But I’m having the time of my life writing them… it’s weird that I’m still here, but isn’t it kind of great?” (Hanif, 09:37)

On Favorite Works (of Their Own)

[09:50 – 12:30]

• Do authors have a favorite among their work—and do they share it?
  • Many authors find their own favorites aren’t the crowd favorites.
  • Jason Reynolds:
    • His favorites: “Boy in the Black Suit” and “As Brave As You”—the “quiet novels” that made the least noise.
    • “I think they’re the best written… and most special to me than all those books.” (Jason, 10:44)
  • Hanif Abdurraqib:
    • Public favorite: “Go Ahead in the Rain” (also Jason’s favorite of Hanif’s).
    • Hanif’s favorite is his recent, more personal memoir:
      “There’s Always This Year. Only because I didn’t know how to write it until I wrote it.”
    • Insight into editorial collaboration: his editor Maya Millette played a crucial role in shaping that book, especially shifting its structure for greater reader impact.
      • “You wrote a very hard book… Let’s make it good. There’s a difference between writing a challenging book and writing a good book.” (Hanif quoting Maya, 11:42)
    • Hanif describes the joy of “bridging” from a book for himself to a book for everyone.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“If I write Coach’s story, then all the characters that you’ve come to love won’t exist because they weren’t alive when Coach was a kid… Sometimes this goes well, and sometimes [kids] are like, ‘We don’t care what happened in the past!’”
– Jason Reynolds [04:45]

“The poem is putting a filter of beautiful language over what some would consider the mundane. And so that’s kind of always been the project of the work.”
– Hanif Abdurraqib [07:51]

“So much of my avoidance of the poem, making a book of poems, was like, I know what it’s like to make the kind of book of poems I want to make. And I don’t know if I can do it. Like I don’t know if I can actually emotionally do it.”
– Hanif Abdurraqib [08:14]

“I like it. Which at some point, is all that matters. Right?”
– Jason Reynolds [06:21]

“Most divorce books by men are kind of, you know, they’re kind of punishing… [mine’s] trying to be a little bit more introspective.”
– Hanif Abdurraqib [08:28]

“I think they’re the best written and most special to me than all those books.”
– Jason Reynolds on his “quiet novels” [10:44]

“There’s a difference between writing a challenging book and writing a good book. And I didn’t know that before.”
– Hanif Abdurraqib (quoting his editor, Maya Millette) [11:42]

“The bridge between the book for me and the book for everyone was a really fun one to cross.”
– Hanif Abdurraqib [12:20]

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• 03:34 — Traci sets up the conversation: starting with books, then shifting to the “friend stuff.”
• 04:31 – 06:28 — Jason unpacks the creative and market pressures in revisiting the Track series.
• 06:35 – 09:50 — Hanif explores his poetic continuity and new personal themes.
• 09:50 – 12:30 — Reflections on favorite works and how public taste aligns (or doesn’t) with artistic pride.
• 06:21 / 08:14 / 10:44 — Standout moments where authors articulate the heart of their creative drive and vulnerability.

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Tone & Energy

The conversation is easy, warm, and marked by gentle teasing, candid admissions, and the kind of insightful shop-talk that only happens among friends. The tone flips effortlessly between deep reflection and playful banter, making the episode both intellectually rich and emotionally accessible.

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Summary

In this episode, listeners are invited into a rare space: acclaimed writers sharing not just about their latest projects, but about the real, sometimes messy, always meaningful reasons behind why (and how) they make art. The discussion is equal parts literary shop talk and soul-searching, offering inspiration and solidarity for anyone curious about the creative process—from fans to fellow writers.

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[For the full conversation, listeners are directed to The Stacks Patreon or Substack.]

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Thomas, host of the Stacks. And I am here today with another bonus episode of the Stacks. We call it the Stacks Unabridged. And today I am really excited to share with you my conversation from the Mississippi Book Festival with Hanif Abdurq and Jason Reynolds. The panel is titled A Conversation Between Friends and that's just what you're going to hear. Talking about each other's work, music criticism, and a very important question about the greatest band of all time. If you're listening to this episode and it cuts out about 10 to 15 minutes in, that means you are not a paid member of the Stacks Pack or my Substack Unstacked. You gotta join over there to get access to this full episode. Not to mention a bunch of other perks like hot takes in my newsletter, access to the Mega Reading Challenge and our virtual book club. Plus, you get to know that by joining the Sax Pack and subscribing to the newsletter, you make this podcast possible. So head to patreon.com the stacks to join the sax pack and check out my newsletter at Tracy Thomas substack.com okay, that's enough of that. It is now time for my conversation with Jason Reynolds and Hanif Abduraqib at this year's Mississippi Book Festival. Thank you, thank you. And thank you guys for clapping for all of my three things. I love you. So I get to introduce these two lovely humans. And because I am mortified by all introductions, I'm going to just give you a very casual intro. So this is Jason Reynolds. You already know him. He is a beloved by me and everyone in this room, apparently. Author. He writes books for young people. If you're not familiar with him yet, your children Certainly are. His most recent book is 24 seconds from now. It came out. And he's got a forthcoming book called Coach coming in October, which is the fifth book in the track series. So Ghost Lou Patina. That's out of order. And sunny. Now, Coach, it's purple. So that's Jason. He's also the poet laureate or the young people's laureate. You used to be. It's a big deal. So that's Jason. And then next to Jason is Hanif Abdurraqib. This is a conversation between friends. And since Kiyose couldn't be here, Jason and I said, well, let's ask our other friend, Hanif. We cornered him in the hotel lobby and said, do you want to be our friend? And Hanif is a author as well. His most recent book is There's Always this Year. He's also a poet.

[C]

He's.

[B]

You might know him from his book A Little Devil in America. He does everything. And that's Hanif, and he's from Columbus, Ohio, and he has a forthcoming book of poems next year. Okay, I actually want to start. I want to start with the books. We're going to talk a little bit about books. Then we're just going to talk because our prompt was a conversation between friends. And usually we don't talk about the books because we're friends, but we're going to do a little book, then we're going to do the friend stuff. And here's where I want to start. Both of you have your next books are sort of going back to previous stuff you did. You published poems early in your career. You published this track series years ago. You've both decided to go back A, why? And B, what is it like revisiting things that you used to do after having sort of gotten to be Hanif and Jason?

[D]

I don't think I ever was. I never wanted to do this. It's weird. Like, I don't. I wrote the track series so long ago. Coach, I think, came out in 16. Ghost, I mean, Ghost came out in 16, I think. And people have been asking, right? The books came out, they did what they did. And people were like, yo, all the kids want Coach, or teachers want Coach or parents want Coach. And I kept trying to explain to people that if I write Coach's story, then all the characters that you come to love won't exist because they weren't alive when Coach was a kid. Right? And because of the category in which I write, typically, I would have to age Coach down. I would have to bring Coach back to, like, 13, 14 years old in order for this to work. And then life happens, right? And you're like, man, you know, it's kind of itching at me. I can feel sort of the story germinating. And I'm like, all right, well, what would it be like to sort of explore 1988, right? What would it be like to try to bring young people? Because it's tricky to do this with kids because sometimes this goes well and sometimes they're like, we don't care about what happened in the past. We want everything. Like, either I want things way in the future or I want things right now. And it can be tricky to sort of navigate the past and figure out what pop culture references to use. What won't they care about? Right? So luckily, 88, I can talk about Jordan, right? I can talk about Back to the Future, right. I can talk about Carl Lewis, right? These are sort of the touch points that I can talk about the crack epidemic in a way that sort of helps us understand who these kids are, that they know. Right. And what has happened to their parents and their communities and so forth and so on. You start to sort of seed those things. And so I think it'll. I hope it works. I like it. Which at some point is all that matters, Right. But it really was a struggle for me to make that decision because I haven't done anything like it. And is it too far gone? The series has been out for a long time, and to add a fifth book five years after the last one seems like. But whatever, here we are.

[B]

I'll read it.

[D]

It'll be fine.

[B]

We're all going to read it, probably. What about you, Hanif?

[C]

Well, first off, sorry, I'm not as disappointed as you are that I am not Kiesa. I share in your disappointment that I'm not Kiesa. Also, this is the anniversary of the church's being laid. It said then I say, September 11th.

[D]

September 14th.

[C]

Oh, yeah, that's tomorrow. That's tomorrow.

[D]

It's tomorrow.

[C]

1882.

[B]

Can you do that math?

[D]

Look at that.

[C]

I can do the math of who built the church.

[B]

Yeah.

[D]

You have all these sweet Southern folk.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

Cussing these people. Church. You just.

[C]

I don't think I ever stopped writing poems. I think, like, I don't mean that as a braided thought. That was a separate thought from them. I got it, you know, like, my first. That was one of those things where, like, the black people responded in one wave of things and everyone else in the room was like, oh, wait.

[D]

My.

[C]

First two books of poems. You know, my last book of poems came out in 2019, Fortune for your Disaster. But since then, I don't believe I've ever stopped writing poems. There's always this year. It's kind of like a book length poem.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

If I think about the way that I was drawn to poems and what excites me about poems, the poem is putting a filter of beautiful language over what some would consider the mundane. And so that's kind of always been the project of the work. There's always this here has like a poetic form built. Like literally there's like a hustle at the end and there's like a sonnet and there's sonnets in the middle and there's, you know, a little Devil in America has poems in it. And so I think the work of taking to a book like a book of poems is different for me and challenging, but fun. Fortune Disaster was a hard book to write. Like it really messed me up. Like it really messed with my head for a long time. And so, so much of my avoidance of the poem making a book of poems was like, I know what it's like to make the kind of book of poems I want to make. And I don't know if I can do it. Like I don't know if I can actually emotionally do it in. This book actually is significantly more challenging than a Fortune for Disaster. Fortune Disaster is like run of the mill breakup book. You know, it's like Stag's leap. You know, it's like your run of the mill divorce book. Maybe not run of the mill. I don't think it's run of the mill. Cause like most divorce books by men are kind of, you know, they're kind of punishing. That's a more critical way of saying what. Unfortunately that starts trying to be a little bit more introspective. But the book I'm writing now, I mean, I'm always looking up your jumping is so much of a book about the bewilderment of my own survival. It's like I'm looking back on all the people who I've buried before I turned 25 and kind of looking at my own self in the mirror like, how are you still here? And that's a much harder book to reckon with. But I'm having an incredible time. It's going to be very bizarre when the poems begin to trickle into the world because I think people are going to be like, these are so, so sad. But I'm having the time of my life like, really, I'm having the most fun I've ever had writing poems. And I actually think that is indicative of where my heart is now and how willing I am to be in this sense of overwhelming bewilderment and say, it's weird that I'm still here, but isn't it kind of great?

[B]

Yeah. Do you guys have favorite of your own things? And do you ever tell people what your favorite thing is?

[D]

Favorite books?

[B]

Yeah, sure. Like, favorite work that you've done? Yeah. Do you have, like, a favorite book? You've written enough and you've written a lot. Even more than enough. I mean, don't stop. But do you have a favorite? Like, I know people always come up to you and they're like, a long way down. Or like, this one is this here. That's my favorite.

[C]

But A Long Way down is my favorite Jason book.

[D]

Definitely not mine, though.

[B]

Not yours.

[D]

No.

[C]

That's the way it is, though, isn't it?

[B]

That's why I'm wondering. That's why I want to know what your favorite.

[D]

Yeah, my favorite is easy. There are two that I love more than all the other ones, and that's Book Two and Book Three, which is Boy in the Black Suit and as Brave as you. And they're the quiet. They're the. The ones that the critics call quiet novels. They've done the least amount of selling and make the least amount of noise, and I think they're the best written and the most special to me than all those books.

[C]

Yeah. I think the book of mine that people seem to love the most is not. Is maybe my least favorite of mine.

[D]

Which is my favorite is Last Joint.

[B]

I know that's his favorite. My favorite.

[D]

That's all. To me, that's a masterpiece.

[C]

Yeah.

[D]

I think there's always. This year.

[C]

I think my favorite is. There's always this year. It's only because I think I didn't know how to write it until I wrote it. You know, I think to see that book come to life, interesting to really fight with it. That book was initially. I did this. I said this when we did our talk. That book was initially flipped. It was initially the clock. Everything worked backwards. And I'll never forget, I have the. I feel like I have the best editor in the world, Maya Millette, who's just. I love Maya Millette's editing so much that when Maya edited a little Devil in America Freelance, she was like, freelance editor. I found. I was like, I would like to have a black woman editor work on this book. I just Found Maya. And the way we worked together was so brilliant that when Random House was like, we would love to bring you back for two more books, I was kind of like, you got to hire, like, you have to put this woman on payroll, you know, I mean, otherwise, I don't know, you know. And so it was great to, to take there's always this year to Maya in this way where it began, you know, in this reverse way. And the countdown clock was happening. And she said this thing to me that I'll never forget was like, you wrote a very hard book. Like, it's. I can't believe that you pulled this off. Let's make it good. You know what I mean? Like, there's a difference between writing a challenging book and writing a good book. And I didn't know that before. And there's always. This year was really fun to say. I felt so proud of myself when I wrote the hardest book I could write. And then I read it and I was like, but this is for no one but me. And I would love to craft this book in a way that makes it for everyone. And the bridge between the book for me and the book for everyone was a really fun one to cross. Yeah, I also, I do love Go Ahead in the Rain though. I really love that book too. That book means a lot to me because that was the first, like long form nonfiction project I wrote that wasn't just like a bunch of essays. And that was cool.

[B]

Why is there's always this year your favorite of his. All right, that is the end of this bonus teaser. If you were liking what you were hearing, you can listen to the entire episode by going to either patreon.com the stacks and joining the Stacks pack, getting access to the Discord, being able to participate in our virtual book club and or you can go to Tracy Thomas substack.com and subscribe to Unstacked, where you're going to get my writing about books popcorn culture. You're going to get other exclusive author interviews and of course, these bonus episodes. So go to one of those two places, join us, get to hear the rest of this episode, and support the work that I do by being a part of these wonderful communities. Thank you so much. And I'll see you in the stats.