Unabridged: Poetry Therapy 2.0

Summary

The Stacks — Unabridged: Poetry Therapy 2.0 (April 17, 2026)
Host: Traci Thomas
Guest: Jose Olivares (Poet), featuring a discussion of Aracelis Girmay’s poem "For Estefani, Laura, third grade, who made me a card"

---

Episode Overview

April marks National Poetry Month, and to celebrate, host Traci Thomas revives the beloved "Poetry Therapy" format. Five poets are invited, each selecting a single poem to read and unpack—aiming collectively to ease listeners’ anxieties around poetry and encourage a more joyful, open-hearted engagement with the form. In this bonus episode, Traci Thomas is joined by acclaimed poet and previous guest Jose Olivares, who brings Aracelis Girmay’s touching poem "For Estefani, Laura, third grade, who made me a card" for discussion.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introduction to Poetry Therapy and the Guest

• [00:31-03:10] Traci Thomas explains the therapeutic goal of the series: to "alleviate our collective poetry anxieties and fears," emphasizing her personal journey with poetry apprehension and the hope that her guests' perspectives will aid listeners similarly.
• [03:11-03:29] Jose Olivares is reintroduced as an award-winning poet and author, as well as a friend of the show.

2. The Power and Accessibility of Poetry

• The conversation opens with mutual enthusiasm for poetry and "Poetry Therapy."
  • Traci: “What a gift poetry therapy has become. I feel like it's changed my life, like all therapy.” ([03:14])
  • Jose: “For me, this is also like an Ellen Bass fan club meeting.” ([03:22])
• The two share their admiration for poet Ellen Bass before transitioning to Jose’s selected poem.

3. Reading and Experiencing the Poem

• [04:10-07:43] Traci delivers a dramatic, heartfelt reading of Aracelis Girmay’s poem, which is centered on the poem's narrator attempting to decipher the mysterious phrase “Lois for Ary Bari” from a child’s card and culminating in the realization that it is a phonetically inventive rendering of “Love is for everybody.”

4. Dissecting the Poem: Noticing and Wondering

• [08:00-09:53] Traci introduces the exercise of “notice and wonder” as a way to engage with poetry:
  • Noticing the poem’s simplicity and humor, calling its tone "light," and marveling at its ability to capture childlike imagination.
  • Wondering about its origins—“Was there really a card or is this an idea that came to her?”—and appreciating the narrative shift from accessible storytelling to a more poetic, “word salad” ending.
• [09:54-12:01] Jose expands on the experience:
  • Reminisces about his first reaction to the poem and the emotional “euphoria” upon realizing “Lois for Ary Bari” means “Love is for everybody.”
  • Highlights the ecstatic, almost rule-breaking repetition at the poem’s end: “If you're… learning how to write poetry, you’re probably told not to write… the word love a hundred million times… [but] it just feels good.” ([11:17]).

5. The Importance of Joy, Humor, and Ecstasy in Poetry

• Discuss the emotional progression from confusion to joy, and how that mirrors the act of unlocking meaning in poetry.
  • Traci: “It definitely has that vibe of like, we did it. We're here. Congratulations. Like, and the answer is so great, right?” ([12:23])
  • Jose: “But also it could be. It kind of does work as a direction, like a different kind of compass. But I hope that where I'm headed is to love is for everybody. You know what I mean?” ([12:42])
• The playful and uplifting discussion ends with mutual laughter and appreciation for poetry’s power to surprise and move us.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jose Olivares ([09:54]):
  “Now, I can’t see those letters and not immediately jump to ‘love is for everybody.’ But the first time I read it, that was not the case… I can still feel it. Like, I get the tingles just from like, this sense of ecstatic and euphoria.”
• Traci Thomas ([12:23]):
  “It definitely has that vibe of like, we did it. We're here. Congratulations. Like, and the answer is so great, right?”
• Jose Olivares ([12:42]):
  “But also it could be. It kind of does work as a direction, like a different kind of compass. But I hope that where I'm headed is to love is for everybody. You know what I mean?”
• Traci Thomas ([08:29]):
  “One of the things I notice about this poem is that it is just so light. It's easy... I know exactly what a yellow circle meaning sun is. I can picture it.”

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:31] — Introduction to Poetry Therapy and National Poetry Month
• [03:11] — Jose Olivares returns, conversation on poetry’s impact
• [04:10] — Full reading of Aracelis Girmay’s "For Estefani, Laura…"
• [08:00] — "Notice and wonder" discussion on the poem’s tone, narrative, humor
• [09:54] — Jose recounts his emotional experience with the poem’s revelation
• [12:42] — Reflection on “love is for everybody” as a poetic compass
• [13:00] — Episode wraps with encouragement to subscribe for the full bonus episode

---

Summary Takeaways

This episode of "Poetry Therapy 2.0" positions poetry as both playful and profound, highlighting how its mysteries can deliver not intimidation, but pure joy. By breaking down the poem’s narrative and emotional arc—especially the moment of revelation and the celebratory repetition—Traci and Jose demonstrate how poetry can become a source of communal satisfaction and self-discovery. Their laughter, admiration, and pure delight in the text is infectious, providing listeners a fresh invitation to approach poetry with less fear and more openness.

For more: Subscribe to The Stacks on Patreon or Substack for full bonus episodes and perks.

Transcript

[A]

Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why customers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years now. With the name your price tool, you tell them what you want to pay and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com, find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law

[B]

hey everybody, it's me, Tracy Thomas, host of the Stacks. And I am here with another extra special bonus episode of the Stacks. Unabridged April is National Poetry Month and so we are bringing back something that you all loved that we did two years ago. We call it Poetry Therapy. It's where I invite five poets onto the podcast, each of whom has chosen one poem for us to read together and discuss. They're going to help us break it down, explain what they think makes the poem good. I'm going to talk about what I am noticing, what I am wondering about, and it's all in an effort to alleviate our collective poetry anxieties and fears. If you are a person who has those, I don't want to project I have them. Today I am joined by Nate Marshall, Jose Olivares, Courtney Lamar, Charleston, Kimon Felix and Yessica Salgado. And hopefully with the help of these five poets, we will be cured of our poetry anxieties and we will be able to just lean in and enjoy the words. Now if you're listening to this episode and it cuts off after about 10:15 minutes, that means you are not a paid subscriber to My Substack Tracy thomas.substack.com or part of the Stacks Pack patreon.com the Stacks these bonus episodes are exclusive for paying members. However, not only do you get these episodes when you pay, you also get a bunch of other perks and you get to know that you are supporting this black woman run independent book podcast that cares about therapy exist. So please go join Tracy Thomas substack.com or patreon.com thestacks okay, enough. Let us dive in to this year's 2026 poetry therapy session. All right, to kick things off we are joined by our dear friend of the podcast, Jo Olivarez. Jose is the award winning author of two poetry collections, Citizen Illegal, which was the finalist for the Penn Gene Stein Book Award, and Promises of Gold, which was long listed for the National Book Award in 2023, the same year he came on this very podcast to discuss the book. Let's dive into my conversation with Jose Olivarez. All right, everybody, we're kicking off poetry therapy with the founder of the Poetry Therapy Institute, Jose Olivares, friend of the pod, author, poet extraordinaire. Welcome back, Jose.

[A]

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[B]

I'm so excited. I just. What a gift poetry therapy has become. I feel like it's changed my life, like all therapy.

[A]

That's amazing. I'm so happy you like it. You know, for me, this is also like an Ellen Bass fan club meeting, so.

[B]

Yes, I know. I was. I thought you might do another Ellen Bass. I was a little surprised you went a different direction.

[A]

I did, yeah. I love Ellen Bass. I definitely looked through her catalog to see if I wanted to use another one of her poems.

[B]

Yeah, you know, I just constantly revisit. The thing is, I just, like, every day I read it out loud to myself. Just a reminder that, you know, we need to take life like a face in our hands. No, you know, no violet eyes, you know, and say, I will love you again. Anyways, I love that poem. But today we are reading for Estefani, Laura, third grade, who made me a card. A poem by Aracelis Girmai.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

I don't know. It's not great. Okay, I'm going to read it out loud to everyone, and then we're going to talk about it. And this one's a little bit long, people, but it's so good. It's very sweet. Okay. Elephant on an orange line underneath a yellow circle meaning sun. Six green vertical lines with color, all from the top, meaning flowers. The first time I peel back the five squares of Scotch tape, unfold the crooked crease fold of art class paper, I am in my living room. It is June. Inside of the card, there is one long word, and then Estephani's name. Low is for Ary Bari. Stephanie, Laura. Lois for Ary Bari. Lois for Ary Bari. The scientific Latin way of saying hibiscus. Lowest. For Ary Bari. A direction, as in, are you going north, south, east, west? Lois for Aribari. I try over and over to read the word out loud. Lois for Aribari. Low, east, Fo. Ary Bari. Lois. Faux Rebari. Lois Fori Bari. What is this word? I imagine using it in sentences like, man, I have to go back to the house. I forgot my lowest Ferrari. Bari. Or there's nothing better than Rain, hot rain, Open windows with music and a tall glass of Lois Ferrari Bari. Or how are we getting to Pittsburgh? Should we drive or take the Lois Ferrari bar? I have lived four minutes with this word not knowing what it means. It is the end of the year. I consider writing my student, Estefani Laura, a letter that goes to the brilliant Stephanie. Laura. Hola, querida. I hope that you are well. I've just opened the card that you made me and it is beautiful. I really love the way you filled the sky with beautiful birds. I believe that you are chula, chulita and superfly. Yes, the card is beautiful. I only have one question for you. What does the word Lois for Arari mean? I try the word again. Lois. F. Lois for Aribari. Low is f. I try the word in Spanish. Lo is for anybody. Lo is for anybody. And then slowly, lo is fo E ribari. Lo is fo Eribari. Love is for everybody. Love is for every Everybody Love, love, love Everybody, Love Everybody love Love is love Everybody, Everybody is love Love, love for love for everybody. For love is everybody Love is for every Love is for everybody. Love, love, love for body. Love body Body is love. Love is body. Everybody is Love is every love for every Love is love for love Everybody Love, love, love, love, love for everybody. Love is for everybody.

[A]

Amazing. I love that reading too. The drama in you really comes out when you read poems.

[B]

You know, I take a text seriously. I do like to read out loud. Okay. Why did you pick this poem for this exercise?

[A]

Well, you know, poetry therapy is such a special opportunity. So I spent a long time kind of looking through some of my favorite poems. And when I remembered this one, I immediately gravitated to it. I love it so much. And to get the opportunity to share it with people that haven't encountered it, I was like, I can't pass up this chance. So for me, that's what drew me to it first and foremost.

[B]

Okay, now let's notice and wonder. This is something that my kids teacher talked about and like some class exercise. And I talked about it with Mo Brown on the show, and it's now my new obsession for poetry. One of the things I notice about this poem is that it is just so light. It just is like, it's easy. There's not a moment in the poem where I think, what's going on here aside from what the fuck is this word? Yeah, but everything around the word is just like, I know what. I know exactly what a yellow circle meaning sun is. I can picture it. I just Feel like that's something that I notice. I also do. I am so curious about the actual origins of this poem. Like, was there really a card or is this an idea that came to her? Like, I just. I do wonder about that. I know the ending, of course, I noticed the, like, switch from storytelling to sort of a more poetry feeling, word salady thing, which I like. I think it really elevates the poem because I think the beginning feels so pedestrian in a complimentary way that the end feels sort of like, oh, the poet is here now. Which I really think is cool. And I noticed, like, there's humor, and I like that. So those are some things that I notice and wonder about. What about you?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I can't 100% confirm that this is a real card that Aracelis received. I do know that she was actually a teacher, so it could totally be an actual card for me. What I notice is, I mean, I still remember the first time I read it. And Lois, for everybody. Like, the word. Now, I can't see those letters and not immediately jump to love is for everybody. But the first time I read it, that was not the case. And so I remembered kind of reading through the poem and trying to figure out, like, yeah, what is this long word? And not knowing. And when the poem splits it up, like, I remember that experience of seeing it for the first time and being like, oh, my God, the sign off is love is for everybody. Love is for everybody. Estefani, Laura. And just feeling this moment. I can still feel it. Like, I get the tingles just from, like, this sense of, like, ecstatic and euphoria. And then to go into the section that you described, right, the noticing the last section, which is, you know, you call it word salad. For me, it just feels like ecstasy. It's, you know, it's just like it breaks so many rules. Like, you're probably not. If you're. If you're like, learning how to write poetry, you're probably told not to write over and over the word love a hundred million times, Right? Like, it. Probably someone would tell you it's too much, it's too saccharine, it's too corny. But in the moment, experiencing it, I love every single line is love. Everybody, everybody is love, love, love for love. Like, I can read it over and over again, and it just feels good. And it. And it produces, I think, what it's supposed to, which is like this sense of. Of ecstasy, of euphoria.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so I love that.

[B]

Yeah, I agree. I do think that you can't kind of read it and not smile because there's also the way that it comes from her doing the breaking it down right before, like, and then slowly low is that. And then you get to that. And it's like a victory lap, too. It's like, I got it. Love is for everybody. Love, love, love. Yay. Yay.

[A]

Yay.

[B]

Everybody, everybody. Buddy, buddy. Hey. We did it. It definitely has that vibe of like, we did it. We're here. Congratulations. Like, and the answer is so great, right? The answer isn't north, south, east, west. The answer is love is for everybody. Like, hi, I would have frolic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's wonderful.

[A]

But also it could be. It kind of does work as a direction, like a different kind of compass. But I hope that where I'm headed is to love is for everybody. You know what I mean?

[B]

You're such a poet. I'm dead. You're such a poet. Yes, of course. All right, that's it. If you want more of this episode of the Stacks unabridged, you must join the Stacks Pack on Patreon by going to patreon.com the stacks or subscribe to my newsletter unstacked at Tracy Thomas substack.com and remember, by joining either of those places, you make it possible for me to make the Stacks every single week, free to all. Thank you so much for your support and we will see you in the Stacks. At vrbo, we understand that even the best of plans sometimes need a little support. So we've planned for the plot twists. Every booking is automatically backed by our VRBO Care guarantee, giving you confidence from the very start. Whenever you need help, it's ready before your stay, through the moments in between and after your trip. Because a great trip starts with peace of mind and maybe a good playlist. But we've got the peace of mind part covered.

[C]

This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. November is Men's Health Awareness Month, so Talkspace wants guys to know that being prepared for life's biggest challenges and opportunities means prioritizing mental health too. Talkspace can help you go beyond fine tuned workouts, supplements and productivity hacks. Talkspace can help you fine tune your inner life so you can succeed in being the best version of yourself in any situation. And with Talkspace, you can get therapy from anywhere and on your time. You can even text your therapist between sessions. If you're depressed, stressed, struggling with a relationship, or just need a little extra one on one support, Talkspace is here for you. Plus, Talkspace takes most insurance and most insured members have a $0 copay. Men's Health Awareness Month is the perfect time to reach out to TalkSpace. Now get $80 off your first month with promo code space80 when you go to talkspace.com match with a licensed therapist today at talkspace.com and save $80 with code [e-mail] that's talkspace.com promo code space800.