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- [00:01]
Steve Austin
When she said, I don't dance now,
- [00:03]
Booker T
I make money moves, that was a
- [00:04]
Steve Austin
mission statement for a whole new generation.
- [00:06]
Booker T
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- [00:30]
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- [01:32]
Steve Austin
Podcast One presents the Steve Austin Show Classics.
- [01:36]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
I'm talking with Booker T. WWE hall of Famer back in the day, many, many years ago, one of the top five workers in the world all time. You remember when you pulled that rib way back in the day in wcw and the whole locker room got all stirred up about it,
- [01:54]
Steve Austin
you know, especially Regal. Regal hated me, man, for doing that. He wanted to fight me all the time for, you know, doing that stupid deal. But hey, man, you know what though? I believed it. You know, I believed it back then, man. I had to make myself believe it, man, in that locker room, you know, it was a lot of top flight talent, man, you know, like yourself, like Jericho and, you know, so Eddie, so many others, man, and if I didn't do that. But more importantly though, Steve, I went out and backed it up a lot of times too, man. I went out and worked my ass off to be, you know, who I became.
- [02:30]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
We were talking the other day on the telephone and man, I've been wanting to do a podcast with you for years, but I always wanted to do it in person, to talk about your career and everything like that. And I've told so many stories over the past. You know, during podcasts, I was talking to Dallas Page, and the story when you was trying to knock me out, and. But we never, ever got to sit down in person and do a podcast. And I called you the other day and I said, man, we just got to do one over Skype. And we started talking about mma. And I didn't really know that you were a huge MMA fan. When did you first start watching?
- [03:02]
Booker T
I've been a fan since day one, man. It's Gracie. But when you called me, I caught you off guard, you know what I'm saying? This Booker T. This Booker T. Yeah. No, man, but I go back to the horse Gracie days, man. You know, the Shamrock, you know, the. You know, the. The ultimate warriors, man, the gladiators of the sport, man. Those guys, you know, I've been intrigued a long time about it. I'm an advocate for those fighters, too, because, you know, those guys, they work their butts off, man, and, you know, the money they. They get paid, I'm. I'm pushing for more money for those guys, man, because they are true warriors, and at the end of the day, man, they need to be taken care of.
- [03:52]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Hey, man, when you was coming up in the business of pro wrestling, I'm sure you've had a lot of guys ask you just because your physicality, your look, you always spend a lot of time in a gym, but people always ask me, I said, hey, man, you love mma. How do you think you would have fared if you got in it? If you would have got it, how do you think you would have fared?
- [04:11]
Booker T
I honestly don't know, man, because we're going to be talking about UFC later on, but in that game, it's about levels. You could be great, you know, on the, you know, elementary school, you know, you know, schoolyard, and then you get to high school and guys beat you up. You know, you get that. And then those guys in high school, they thought they were tough, and then they go to college, and then those guys get beat up, and then those guys in college, they go to the pros and those. And they go, wow. I thought it looks slower than it actually really is, you know, so fighting is levels, man, and it's something that you gotta embrace, you know, most. Most. Most of the time, you know, from when you were a little kid or from when you. At a young age, let's just say that.
- [05:00]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Well, hey, man, when you first started in the business, you were trained by Scott Casey and who else?
- [05:05]
Booker T
I went to Ivan Putzky School, but Scott Casey, he was the guy who put the blueprint in my head as far as what wrestling was all about, you know, as far as storytelling, you know, as well as Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet going out and, you know, creating and making the fans, you know, feel a certain way opposed to just watching it, you know. But so Scott Casey, he would put the blueprint.
- [05:27]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Hey, man. And the thing about it was he was going through Dallas at the time. And I know you broke in in 89, correct? Yeah, and I broke in in the
- [05:35]
Booker T
back, actually, actually 90, you know, everybody always want to put me in 89 and make me a little older. You know, even on social media they say I'm 55, you know, I'm 53. Let's look at that. Let's get the record straight right here. Stone Cold Steve with Booker T. I'm 53 years old, but look at this right here. Check this out right here. 53. Bam. You know what I mean? And I'm still looking good. But now I broke in in 1990, man, and I got my break in 92 in WCW.
- [06:12]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
But what was the deal with Scott Casey training you? Because he was actually going to train me for a period of time. I was going to work at Watkins Motor Lines when I was working on a freight dock. And then, man, I happened upon SC Casey and we started talking. I wanted to get into the business. But then I guess he went off to Houston. And so all of a sudden Scott Casey was no longer going to train me because I didn't know where he went. So that's when I hooked up with Gentleman Chris Adams because I saw his wrestling school commercial on TV and I went down there and it all worked out for me because he put me in a high profile angle because he was trying to push his school. After five months in the business, I went down to Tennessee, worked for a little bit and Jerry Jarrett sent me back. And that's when I turned heel and started with Chris. And the only reason I was able to win rookie of the year in 90 was because I was in a high profile angle with Gentleman Chris Adams. And my training back in the day, dude, we did, you know, we did the basic shit. We learned how to do some tumbling drills, we learned how to take bumps. And we did that over and over again. And there was just about. There was 25 or 30 of us in a class. We had one ring and we worked out one day A week. And that was after the television taping. So, man, you know, dude, man, Chris didn't even smarten me up after five months before my first match going into Dallas Moratorium to work with the world famous frogman LeBlanc. And right then, right before motherfucking television taping. That's when I found out the businesses of work. Now I knew something was up, but he wasn't going to smart me up for nothing, dude. Right before I went out there, we laid out a little bullshit match and referee Tony Falk, who's good as gold, was trying to call me spots out there. And we stunk out the joint as we always do when we was green.
- [07:55]
Booker T
But my question is, you don't know that.
- [07:58]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Oh, ye. But what did you training consist of with Scott Casey and Ivan Pusky? Because he was more of a showman, he was a strong man.
- [08:08]
Booker T
I could tell you as far as. Let me tell you what happened to Scott first when he left and went to Texas. Ivan Busky opened a wrestling school, man. And it was like one of the most high profile wrestling schools you would ever want to walk into at that time, I mean, it was plush, it was in the south west side of town, you know, I mean, I mean, we had, you know, one wrestling ring on one side. On the other side we had full wrestling mats, you know, we had televisions and video cameras, you know, watching us and stuff like that. I have a pussy and a. Slipped on a banana peel, man, and got some sponsors, man, and they were all behind this thing. And he hired Scott, man. And I paid Scott some good money to come up and help him, you know, get the training done. And that's how I got hooked up with Scott. Scott, you know, as far as what consisted of training, you know, it was. I got lucky. Ivan Putzky, he was a, he was a gimmick guy. He really wasn't a wrestler, you know, he never went out and actually had a wrestling match. I don't think in his whole career. He's been in a lot of, you know, matches. But, you know, as far as the wrestling go, that's another story. So we didn't do a lot of burpees, a lot of, you know, Hindu squats and stuff like that. But we did learn psychology from Scott Casey. And Scott Casey taught me, like I say, the small little bitty things, such as taking a head but in the turnbuckle, you know what I mean? How to sell, you know, a tackle properly, you know what I mean? How to, you know, create some space and Little bitty stuff like that, you know. So the, the, the school only lasted about six months and it was closed down because all the money that he was spending bringing talent in, stuff like that. But I got lucky. I got lucky I was in on the first crop.
- [10:00]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
How long did it take you to really understand the art of selling? Because when I got in the business, man, at first, for those first two months, Py Chu High, all of the big bad, tough ass hills were coming down into Dallas. And for the first two months, dude, I got my ass whipped with kendo sticks, weightlifting belts. I was this white meat baby face with long blonde hair because I just got finished playing football at North Texas State University. So they knew that I was a student of Chris Adams. So I wasn't having matches, I was just a whipping. And they was going out there and beating the flying puff out of me. And then finally I started getting in the ring and, you know, shit, you can go back and watch one of my matches with the Undertaker. And I guess he was working as a punisher back in the day, and I wasn't worth the flying. And because I came out of a football background, I kind of considered myself, you know, not a tough guy as far as walking around fighting people on the streets. But I was a pretty big motherfucking thinking, you know, all of a sudden, you know, when I'm out there working with superstar Bill Dundee, who is one of my favorites and taught me a sh about the business and psychology and really took care of me. Holy shit, man. Bill was 5 7, about 200 pounds. And Bill never worked like a small guy. And, you know, all of a sudden, you know, I'm thinking, man, I got a sell for this guy. And it was my conversation with Tojo Yamamoto. Did you ever know Tojo?
- [11:22]
Booker T
Nah, I never met Tojo.
- [11:24]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Well, man, one time, you know, he was telling me he's trying to smarten me up about selling, you know, so I could get some sympathy. Because, dude, if you and me are working as we have many times, if I'm doing something to you, man, you ain't selling it. And you're doing something to me, and I ain't selling it. Nothing means shit because nothing hurts. So Tojo said, grab my ear, and I grabbed his earlobe. And, man, he cringed booger. Like, I just ripped his ear off. And he looks at me and he goes, that cell. And that's when the light bulb went off in my head. How long did it take you to put the nuances and the art and the performance all into it. Because I know you was always a good athlete.
- [12:02]
Booker T
I took the wrestling really, really quick, man. For some reason, it seemed like it was something I was meant to do. It was like deja vu, you know. But, you know, selling for me, I talk to my students about it all the time. You know, it's acting and reacting. That's pretty much all it is, you know. And I got into a lot of fights when I was a kid, man. I used to kick a lot of ass, man, and beat up a lot of guys around the neighborhood. But I remember this one kid down the street, man, and you know, he called me out to a fight and you know, the fight was actually in my yard. And I remember what that ass kicking feel like, man, because that guy beat me up so bad, man. He beat me up so bad. But then on top of that, I got a chance to, you know, you know, sit under the learning tree. Guys like Manny Fernandez, you know, guys like, you know, John Mantel, you know, guys like Black Boy, you know, John Tatum, you know, you know, Maniac Mike Davis, you know those names, man, those guys of stars, man, you know, in Dallas. And they were. They were true bonafide wrestlers. You know, when I. When I see Stone Cold Steve Austin, I see gorgeous Gary Young running around, you know, in my head every, every single time. Because those guys, you know, they were truly, truly great, you know, athletes and great stars and entertainers down there in Dallas. And I learned so much, man, you know, riding, you know, and actually driving and Black Bart sitting in the back seat, you know, telling me which way to go than. So that's how I learned, dog, dude.
- [13:39]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
I remember sitting around some of the hotel rooms because I was traveling for a brief period of time with Black Bart and a little bit of Nikita Koloff. And you know, Black Bart, he'd always had his glasses and he pushed his glasses up and he'd be spitting in his little spit cup and dropping knowledge. And you know, to your point, man, I was riding up and down the road with Skandar Akbar and Bronco Lubich. I mean, I had no ride. I didn't have no friends. You know, I wasn't over. So I was riding with them. They took me under their wings. And then I hooked up with gorgeous Gary Young and we was riding down, down the road in his 280zx and I'm asking him questions the whole time. Billy Joe Travis, Jimmy Jack Funk Maniac, Matt Bourne, you know, a lot of those guys, I mean, those are ace workers, never got really big runs but outstanding teachers and outstanding workers in their own right.
- [14:27]
Booker T
Hall of Fame talent right there. You just named, I mean. I mean, on both sides, all those dads, all those guys, hall of Fame talent, man. And that's what, you know, we talk about, you know, the young guys now that's out there doing their thing. Those guys, it's a lot of great talent, you know, on the roster today. These young guys, they can do things, you know, unimaginable to guys like us when we were doing it, but they didn't get a chance to actually learn, you know, what it was like to, you know, peek through the curtain and watch the crowd reactions when certain guys are out there, you know, taking it to another level. And then take that knowledge yourself and put it in your playbook and your black bag and say, man, I'm going to use this. Somewhere down the line, they didn't get a chance to get that worldly experience. And I think that's the difference between us and them as far as, you know, you know, going out and performing.
- [15:19]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
You know, I thought that guys like you and me, you had a few more moves than me, more. A little bit more athletic than me, but we didn't do anything crazy. I mean, the athleticism that's going on in the squared circle these days is off the charts. I mean, don't get me wrong, you can go back and you had your dynamite kids and stuff like that, but they were kind of rare individuals the way the business has sped up now. And I'm a big fan of the business, and especially when the guys are having good matches and telling great stories, and the same with the women. But what do you think about just stylistically, how the business has transitioned into as athletic as it is now? Because it was not this way, by and large, except for a few rare exceptions with regards to style in the ring.
- [16:03]
Booker T
Well, I can sum it up, you know, it's really, really simple. You know, like you say, I love what these guys are doing right now. These guys are unbelievable athletes. But the chant nowadays is, you know, you know, this is awesome. This is awesome, you know, And I love that chant. You know what I mean? That's a chant that I want the whole arena, you know, saying, you know, by the end of the night. But. But I want them to be saying it at the end of the night, not in my match, you know, because I, you know, like, when I was wrestling Stone Cold Steve Austin and I'm a heel, I need those fans chanting Stone Cold to get me going. Now. This is awesome for Me just to go up and jump on something and break something. I need an investment. I need an emotional connection. And that's the difference between what we did and what the young guys do now. And some of them do it as of late, I can honestly say. You know, Seth Rollins, man. I mean, this guy, he has been doing some. His storytelling, man. I mean, it's like writing a great romance novel. That's how good Seth Rollins has gotten after the last six months to a year. And I hope all of those guys can fall into that same mode, because he's thinking about his body now because he's getting a little bit older. And I think that's one of the things. These guys are young and they don't realize until they get a little bit older.
- [17:24]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
But as far as the showmanship goes, and because you can be a great worker, because we've all known great workers who never got to the high, highest level that they should have gotten it. And I bring a classic point right now. Brad Armstrong. Brad Armstrong was one of the best workers, if not the best worker in the locker room, and he was universally respected. He could work American style, Japanese style, lucha style, it didn't matter. Brad could work his ass off. And as good as he was, he never got to that next level. And if he could turn it on, like, when that red light on that camera was on, like, he couldn't in the locker room, man, he'd have been the biggest star in the territory. But my point in telling you that story was you were a great athlete. And I guess you were born with a charisma, but also your showmanship. And if I'm not mistaken, I believe you told me a story one time about you being a huge Bruce Lee fan.
- [18:21]
Booker T
Oh, man.
- [18:22]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
And Bruce Lee was instrumental because, dude, some of the stuff which you would do, the after effect was exactly what, like a Bruce Lee. If you just think, okay, he goes over there and chops a bunch of stuff up and that he's just going through the motions and it's cool. You can respect the ability. But, dude, when he stomped a. And all of a sudden he's doing that face and he's got. He's making all those. Those sounds. Tell me and tell everybody about how big of a influence Bruce Lee was on you.
- [18:52]
Booker T
I tell people all the time, man, you're never going to watch a karate movie without hearing somebody yell. There's always going to be some of that. If that's not in the mo, it's not a great karate movie. I don't Care if it's a Chuck Norris, you know, karate movie. I was just watching, you know, the Five Figures of Death and the Five Deadly Venoms just last night. And the thing is, I've watched these movies a hundred times, maybe a thousand times a piece, but. But the thing is, you know, that's where I got my entertainment from. You know, the boss, you know, every karate boss, you know, he was badass. You couldn't just walk up on him. You know, you thought you could. You wondered how he became the boss. It was because he could kick everybody's ass, you know. So those stories, man, you know, my scissor kick, you know, coming from the best of the best, you know. You know, the movie with Eric Roberts, you know, back in the day, you know, stuff like that, man, I was, you know, drawn in my sidekick. I always wanted to fly like a ninja, you know, ninjas could fly, you know what I mean? And that sidekick, you know, I would tell my brother, hold him up as high as you can, you know what I mean? And I'm gonna go up there and get it, you know what I mean?
- [20:09]
Steve Austin
And I would do it, you know, effortless, you know, sometime. And. And that's what wrestling is, man. It's the embodiment of going out and making the fans feel like, man, when you put that suit on, you are truly like Superman, man. When you went out there and stomped a mud hole in a man and walked it dry, you actually believed it when you in. Some of those were pretty stiff.
- [20:37]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Amen. Before we say. Before we segue into a little bit of UFC228, you got to tell a story about the time, because I've told it on the podcast before. I want to hear your take on it, because it was you and me in the ring together, and we always enjoyed working together. We knew each other since when you came into wcw, and I guess I was there first, and then you guys came in, you and Stevie Ray. But we always had. We always enjoyed working with each other. But one time we was working, it was WWE or WWF back in the day, and, man, we had just started working, and, man, you knocked the dog shit out of me. And I was always real patient with sending receipts because I was just like, okay, dude's off. And I like to work snug anyway. But, man, you hit me so damn hard. I said, no, man, I said, I got to send back a receipt now. So what happened that night? You tell a story. I've told it too many times.
- [21:32]
Steve Austin
Well, the way I remember that story is we got one more we gotta talk about, too. As far as when I first got into wwf, we gotta talk about that story. But you know what I remember about the night that I whacked you? You know, I'm known to be snug.
- [21:52]
Booker T
I'm known to be a little. I wouldn't say still for anything, but, you know, I'm one of those. I'm from. I'm old school. If you hit a guy in the lip and you bust his lip, you know, that's just part of, you know, part of the business. But normally that's in the exchange. That's normally when you guys are going at it, not when things just get started, you know, But I don't know, maybe I was wound up. But I do remember hitting you and blood came out of your lip. And I go, oh, shit. I mean, to do that. That's what I'm saying in my mind, you know, but in my mind as well. I'm. I'm knowing that I'm going to get a receipt back, you know, somewhere in this match. And the thing is, what I remember that night, you was really, really passive as far as getting that receipt back. But the receipt I remember getting back was a stump right to the face when I was laying down on the ground, and it was a stiff shot right to the nose. And the. I felt like I deserved that. You know what I mean? It didn't. It didn't bust me up or anything, but it was a stiff shot and it was open, and it was. It was purposely done. Now, in business, a man could only respect that. You know what I mean? That. That's the way I remember that going. And that. Should I have been, you know, in the back, you know, waiting on you behind the curtain before that stiff shot? No, because I. I delivered the stiff shot first. And the receipt was. Was so. So I understand it. I totally understand that, you know, but. But. And young guys need to understand that when you out there performing that this is not, you know, a day in the park, man. It's, you know, it's about. Especially when you're on tv, you got to go out there and lay those shots in. You got to go out there and whack that guy. Sometimes it do get a little, you know, you know, testy. You know, guys want to, you know, get a little rowdy with. With each other. And I always said, hey, that's good for tv. Go out there and let all of that hang out. If I need to bring you back, I'll bring you back. And I think that's something you and I both brought to the table.
- [24:03]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
It's funny because the business of pro wrestling is such a work. A lot of people, you were there, I think you were there when Sean, maybe it's before you came in when Sean and Brett were kind of working an angle and there was a lot of heat between those guys. And I think they was fixing to do that 60 minute Broadway or whatever it was, Iron man match. But all of a sudden people think, oh man, these two guys are mad at each other. It's going to be a hell of a match. Dude, when two people are really mad at each other and they shoot heat, normally the match ain't that good because both guys don't want to really cooperate with each other. It's got to be a total work in there. And sometimes things can go bad. Sometimes you can get a shot or a receipt or stuff like that. But man, you got to maintain your composure because like you said, it is what it is, is very physical. It ain't ballet. You're always trying to protect the business, even though the business is a known work. But when two guys in there and they're really mad at each other, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a great match.
- [24:59]
Booker T
You know, being really mad at each other is one thing, but do you agree with me or not? Every time I had to go out and perform at a very high level with a guy, you know, no matter whether he was my best friend or not, when I walked out of that curtain, I really wanted to whoop his ass in an entertaining, from an entertaining perspective, but I really wanted to go out and whoop his ass. And the camera needed to see that in order to be able to understand what was getting ready to happen. I don't know. A lot of times I could see when guys getting ready to go out and have a match, when getting ready to go out and perform and play wrestler, you know, and for me, coming out of the curtain, that moment in time was frozen because I really believed in what I was getting ready to go out there and do.
- [25:47]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Dude, I agree with you 100%. When I was out there, it didn't matter whether it was promo, whether it was a match, and this was the interesting thing. And I don't know how long it took for you to really find yourself as a character and a character that you totally believed in. It took me a while because I remember, you know, in USWA and even in World Class and World Championship Wrestling in Atlanta, I was Steve Austin I was stunning Steve Austin, but I didn't really know what that meant. All of a sudden, when I kind of started getting up, I come up with that Stone Cold idea, and I turned into Stone Cold, and I started growing in that character, and I was the bmf, and I believed that I could beat anybody's ass. I believed it was 120% shoot and I was working, but I believed it. And that, to me, is for me, because I remember one time we was riding down the road primetime. Brian Lee was in the back, I was driving. Tom Pritchard was riding shotgun, and he said, steve, he goes, what's so stunning about stunning Steve? And I didn't have an answer for him. And he said, prime Time. He goes, what's so prime time about Brian Lee? He didn't have an answer, but as Stone Cold, I had that answer and the comfort to perform within that character. I was way better in that ring when I was Stone Cold than trying to be something else. Because. Because my mindset, my belief system was so. That's all that existed. It was a total shoot for me. How long did it take you to come up with that same type of presentation or mindset?
- [27:16]
Booker T
Amen. I'm gonna tell you, man, those karate movies that I watched from when I was a kid, man, I always had that one mindset because of the boss, you know, and all of those karate movies, you know, that I watched, the boss was, you know, he was badass, you know, and every time someone tested the boss, he showed how real he had to be with those guys, you know. All those, you know, you know, Shaft movies I watch, you know what I mean? Richard Round, she was badass, man. You know what I mean? He didn't take no off nobody. And I wanted to be like. Like Chef, you know, I mean, that's what. Can you dig it? Sucker came from, you know? You know, me watching those movies and. And just for me, I always knew my role. When I remember Big Band Vader, God rest his soul, you know, my first pay per view in wcw, you know, my first pay per view, I'm in the main event, and Big Band Vader, he asked me, hey, man, you think you're really ready for this? You know, and he was. He was shooting. He was really shooting because I was green. And I go, hell yeah, I'm ready for this, man. I've been. I've been training for this. This is. This is a moment that I've been. I've been relishing for a long time. But I knew what My job was that night was to go out there and bump for all of those old guys, make them look good, make them shine like new money. Then when I get in the back, they go, say, kids, you did a good job. You know what I mean? So I was trained to know what the test was in order to go out there and pass the test even, you know, when I first got into wcw.
- [28:53]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Well, from watching the movies that you watched, we're going to get to some MMA in just a second. But watching the movies that you're watch, watching, working with Scott Casey and Ivan Putsche, who was a showman like, who stressed to you that you need to be strong as a character, not just at work or going through the motions. That character. Because I believe that going through the motions is one thing, but when you have that all encompassing character that people can buy into, when you combine all those things, I think that's when you draw money and you sell tickets, you
- [29:22]
Booker T
know, Steve, I think that's the reason why I'm still here today. I think that's why I'm still, you know, relevant, you know, because, you know, I think as yourself, you know, it's never really been about my, about me along this journey. I mean, of course, you know, I've been reaping the benefits of it, but, but it's always been about getting the script, you know, I mean, how many characters have you been, you know, and every time you got the script, you went out there and tried to make it the best you possibly could, you know, and when Stone Cold Steve Austin came that, that's the one that stuck of. But all the, all the time getting to that point, you made it the best you possibly could along the way. So for me, getting the role, man, and taking that role and enhancing that role and making it what I wanted it to be, no matter what it was. It was GI Bro, you know, I mean, I was GI Bro back in the day. And Dallas Page, he told a story, you know, I was listening to him and he goes, you know, he came by and he saw me in the mirror and he goes, man, what are doing you you doing? I used to work for a living, man, you know what I mean? I used to have nothing and now I'm doing something of having fun. So I bought. My brother told me, my brother Stevie, he said, man, I'm gonna help you get a job. He said, only thing I'm asking you to do, man, is, you know, don't make me look bad, man. He said, man, just do the job to the Best of your ability. I don't care if it's sweeping floors, I don't care if it's washing windows. He said, man, just do the job to the best of your ability to, to what next comes along. And he said, you could do that, man, I'm gonna help you. That's what he told me when I came home from prison. And I believe in that to this day, man, every script that I've gotten, you know, I just went out and did the job. Becoming the world champion, that's not something that I went home and dreamed about or anything. I just wanted to go out and be the best guy on the card each and every night, whether I was or not, you know, you know, whether I was top five, you know, in the business or not, you know what I mean? You know, I was going to try to make it, you know, look that way. I was going to try to feel that way. Each and every time I went out and performed, no matter what the role was, man, every time they gave me something, you know, Booker T. And Gold Dust, I want to go out there and make it the best that it was and entertain the fans to the utmost that I possibly could.
- [31:43]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Hey, man. Shifting gears a little bit to the UFC talk. We were going to talk about 228 and maybe the preliminary matches, if you saw those as well. But the UFC started in, give or take, right around 1993. And I remember when it first came out because, you know, way back in the day, you and me the exact same age, man, you see tough man contests on tv and it was usually a couple of drunk guys with beer bellies, and they'd come out just swinging like this, and in 40 seconds, both of them was gassed, just totally blown up. And it was a shits. But that was what was going on back in the day. Then all of a sudden, UFC comes along and it's all these different styles and a striker could be put up with a complete. With just a plain wrestler. And it was. A lot of things are so one sided or lopsided and just popped up. It's just. It was like, I don't know, it was weird. And then all of these changes. When did you start watching and what do you think about, dude, the stuff we saw in 228? There were some awesome matches, especially on the prelim car. Hard.
- [32:45]
Booker T
Oh, yeah.
- [32:45]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
What do you think about the evolution of MMA specifically?
- [32:50]
Booker T
I mean, you know, definitely the, the Godfather, Horace Gracie, you know, he put, you know, mixed martial arts as far as, you know, the sport on the map as far as I'm concerned. As far as small guys. You go back and watch Dan said,
- [33:05]
Steve Austin
I mean, you know, watch on Mars Gracie, you know, the evolution of, you know, him taking the spirit, you know, global, you know, because a guy so small, you know, going out, tapping guys out, you know, some, Some. Some of the guys that, you know, Gracie tapped out were heavyweights. Some. Some of the guys Gracie tapped out were super heavyweights. A lot of people don't even remember that. People like, you know, Dan to be Severin, guys like Kemo and his, you know, you know, theatrics, you know, his, you know, his pageantry, you know, coming to the ring back in the day, you know, you know, Tito Ortiz, of course, you know, you know, and his American flag, you know, and his flames, you know, coming to the ring, you know, of course, you know, you know, Chuck Liddell, you know, who's, you know, now, you know, talking about, you know, him and Tito talking about getting back in the ring and doing it one more time with golden Boy, you know. So to watch the evolution of the sport from there to now, it's been awesome. You know, we've seen a lot of great, great guys come through the sport. You know, we've seen more important. We've seen, you know, and we've been only watching it for, you know, last 20, 20 years, but we've seen so many guys careers start and so many got careers finish in the UFC as well.
- [34:19]
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Steve Austin
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- [35:18]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Sleep Man. As I was watching this card, there was a couple of names on here that I had never heard of before. What do you think about the star making business of the UFC or mma because you're talking about a shoot sport, but in wrestling you're trying to build characters that are going to draw money in the fight game. You know, just because you're a great fighter doesn't necessarily mean you're going to be a big draw at the box office. What are your thoughts on the star making process as far as, you know, a shoot sport like mma? What does it take to sell tickets?
- [35:53]
Steve Austin
I mean, one thing about mma, they're gonna continue to sell tickets. You know, people want to continue to come and watch, you know, fight. You know, people are just intrude. Special women, women love to watch guys go out and just beat each other up for some reason. It's a sexual thing. I don't know what it is, but, but they love it, you know, so the, so the fight game is gonna be around for a long time, but the sport definitely have to evolve as far as trying to take care of the fighter. You know, I look at a guy like, like Deontay Wilder, who, you know, the boxer, the heavyweight champion of the world, you know, I mean, this guy, you know, he's, he's been heavyweight champion quite for quite some time and you know, he's made a lot of money, you know, so when he retire, he's going to be, you know, hopefully, you know, if he, you know, manages money properly, you know, he's going to be okay, you know. You know, with these UFC fighters, one thing I do not agree with, you know, like you say, the star power will never happen when you have, you know, the champion, you know, have to fight the number one contender every time they go out and fight. Now, I just don't believe in that. You know, me as the champion, I need a promoter like, you know, like Mickey, you know, with Rocky Balboa, you know. You know, you remember when Mix told Rocky, you know, those guys was, has been, you know what I mean? But, you know, they just, they just wouldn't kill us. Like this guy, you know what I mean? This guy will eat your live rock. You know what I mean? Talking about Mr. T, you know what I mean? So, so I need a guy like Mick, you know, covering for me, you know, so I can have a longer career and make more money and become more of a star. So when I leave this, you know, I might, could get in an expendable 3 or 5 or 10 or something like that.
- [37:31]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Hey, man, did you get a chance to. Man, I'm not a fight pass guy. So I didn't see the matches it was or the fights it was on Fight Pass. But I saw, you know, the prelims and most time, man, I don't watch the preliminaries. I just watched, you know, the pay per view and that's it. And I just got finished driving home to LA from Nevada and man, I was tired and I said, man, I got to watch all these fights because me and Book going to talk about them on the podcast. And so, man, I started watching the prelims and I was almost like kind of like dozing off a little bit. And then all of a sudden I got wrapped up in the stories, you know, I guess it was Charles Byrd, I guess his hometown kid there in Dallas fighting against Darren Stewart. And Stewart, British guy known as being heavy handed. And all of a sudden, you know, Charles Byrd, man, kind of handling him a little bit in that. And all of a sudden do they go to round two and then Darren Stewart starts doing what he does best. Kapow.
- [38:24]
Steve Austin
Yeah.
- [38:25]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Did you enjoy that fight?
- [38:26]
Steve Austin
Oh, man, you know, that fight, to
- [38:28]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
me, that fight set the tone because then that's okay. I'm in for the prelims now.
- [38:32]
Steve Austin
That's the thing right there, you know what I mean? These guys don't have star power, so you don't know what you're going to see until you see it, you know what I mean? You don't know what kind of fighter you're going to see until you actually see him fight, you know. And then you watch a young guy like that who go out there and get an ex sp spectacular victory against a guy like that and it looks great, you know. But there again, Steve, that's what the level of fighters, you know, that's what the level of fight game, you know, comes into play. When he goes out and fights someone a little bit on a higher level, he's gonna have a little bit trouble, you know what I mean, watching his defense, watching, you know, certain little holes in this game. I mean, I looked at Al Jermaine Sterling, you know, Al Jermaine Sterling, he went out there and he got a big win, you know. But I still saw so many holes in this game. And I said, I saw, I saw so many, so many little bitty things where, you know, if he was fighting a better fighter, you know what I mean, he could have easily gotten beat. But you know, he pulled it off in spectacular fashion. I tell you that that guy's knee probably is going to be screwed up for the rest of his career. His career is probably over, you know, from certain aspects, just from that one fight right there, you know, so. And the thing is, Al, Jermaine Sterling, he's come a long way. He's a guy that they've been pushing to become a star. And he's still not that guy of, you know, pretty much what I would say, star quality, you know, that got star power that's going to go out there and sell, you know, a building or arena or anything like that.
- [39:54]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
But dude, man, he was throwing bombs. I mean, striking was impeccable and all of a sudden, you know, the finish was fantastic. You didn't see this in this event because, you know, most of the fights there was a lot of action. But it's funny because coming from the world we come from and pro wrestling, man, you know, you try to get that crowd hooked and then you're doing something through your storytelling, you know, all the packages that have been run as far as your angle and you're taking in people on a ride and so you want them to come up and down with you and get behind that baby face and to dislike the heel. What are your thoughts as far as just an MMA crowd where a lot of times you will have two world class fighters out there, but because their styles are kind of canceling each other out, seemingly it's a quote unquote boring fight when you're actually seeing a masterpiece of a chess game and they start booing and shit like that. What do you think about the MMA crowd? Why are they so, you know.
- [40:53]
Steve Austin
Well, well, the crowd is only, you know, doing what they supposed to do. You know, when I, I think, you know, when you got a referee, you know, MMA is the only sport, the only sport in the history of sports where the referee can actually tell the fighter. Come on guys, we need more action. Yeah, come on guys, come on guys, come on, chop chop. You know what I mean? It's amazing, you know, when I see something like that happen, you know, and, and the thing is, you know, you do watch a guy go out there and he's, he's technical, you know, and that's the way he fights. He fights for, because he's a prize fighter. He's not a guy that just want to go out there and get knocked out. I don't agree with, you know, you know, these guys going out there just being looked at as cock fighters, you know, gone, thrown in the chicken coop and say, hey, just fight. You know, that's not, that's not what, you know, I think it should be about. I don't think that's what they should be. Of course, there's a lot of them. You know, you look at Chris Leben, you know, Chris leaping, you know, he's a, you know, you know, former UFC octagon warrior guy who's gone out there and, you know, was willing to just walk in the shots, willing to just take them, you know, and. And I, and I can almost guarantee you now, if you go and talk to Chris Lebe, if he's conscious, if he's coherent, he would tell you he would not do that ever again. You know, he would not walk into those shots that he took from Anderson Silva, you know, thinking that this was a game, thinking that this was something that was funny when you could get brain damage. So I applaud those guys, you know, at the top level that say, hey, man, I'm not just going to go out there and just walk into anything just because the fans want me to go out there and do it. They did that to Floyd Mayweather. You know, Floyd Mayweather was the guy who got booed out of the building in many, many fights. You. But who's the guy at the end of the day on top, looking down,
- [42:43]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
hey, man, you just talked about Chris Leben, and I was a big fan of his back in the day, and he had a lot of problems with some drugs and painkillers and stuff like that. I don't know his whole story. And he had a tough background, a very tough background. But when you start talking about stuff like that, as far as what it takes to be a top level UFC fighter, even on their roster, the amount of toughness, the way those guys train every single day, and the fights they put themselves through, people always say, hey, man, what's tougher? Pro wrestling or mma? Because when you tell our schedule to some of those MMA guys who actually get what we do, they're like, man, what you guys do is crazy. I don't know if I could do that. So, to me, it's a different level of toughness. Like, the boys are like cockroaches. You know, we're in a different town every single night. We're at a different gym, we're on the road, we're eating at different restaurants. Just as far as toughness or a hard way of life, which one do you figure? Is it tougher?
- [43:39]
Steve Austin
You know, that's a tough question, man. That's a really tough question. What's tougher? You know, mma, Professional wrestling. In professional wrestling, we definitely got to be physically tough. You know, that's something that we, you can't be a professional wrestler without being tough. You know, that just comes along with the territory. Putting your body through something that is not meant for the human body to actually go through on a regular basis anyway. Sometimes, you know, 275 days plus, you know, doing it, that's just not something the human body, you know, is supposed to do. You know, baseball, they're, you know, they should. They play 80 games, you know, I mean, I mean, 120 games a year, you know what I mean? These guys. But we put our bodies through a lot. But I think with professional wrestling, you know, our mental, you know, stress, you know, comes into play more than anything. You know, having to, you know, fly to Germany, you know, and, you know, get off the plane and go straight to the arena and perform and then go straight from the arena. Sometimes go back to the plane to get on a, you know, the land, you know, in another country, you know, go to the hotel for a couple hours, then go to the ring. You got a double shot that day. You know, I mean, stuff like that, you know what I mean? The mental aspect comes into play. How far can you push yourself? You know what I mean? How far, how long can you stay focused, you know, and for how many years? You know, for me it's been 20, almost 28 now, you know, so that's the difference between what we do in MMA now. Going out and getting kicked in the face with a shin, you know, getting elbowed and sliced open, you know what I mean? Getting, you know, my brains were getting choked out for a few seconds where there's no oxygen, oxygen going to my brain. You know, there's a toll and there's a, there, there's something to be said about guys that, you know, that's willing to put themselves through that, you know, but, but, but as far as toughness go, it's just a difference.
- [45:33]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
I think it is the difference too. But I also think, man, with, with the wrestling business or pro wrestling as you and I know it, man, I always tell people you're kind of living three lives in one body on one hand. You are a professional athlete because of the prep you do and what you're doing in the ring at a high level, then on top of that, you can be a rock star. And when you go places, a lot of people will have things that you might want and they're going to want you, hang out with you. So then you turn into, into the rock star aspect along with the professional athlete. And then on top of that, you're a truck driver, because you're going to fly some places, but then you're going to get in the car and you're going to hump it down the road. So, I mean, it truly is that. And I was kind of known way back in the day. I ran with the crowd that I ran with, but when I finally started making some money, I started traveling by myself. But I was always with the drinking crowd. And, man, I mean, when I say I was with the drinking crowd, I mean. I mean, I was the drinking crowd. And I always had my whiskey, whether it was whiskey, beer, stuff like that. So, to me, to be on time every time, work hurt, live that lifestyle, be the truck driver, I feel pretty good after I did it all. But if I could go back and do it again, I would have taken a lot better care of myself, and I would have slowed the partying down. And that being said, I don't think that a UFC fighter could live the lifestyle that I was living, or Ric Flair was living a whole different level, because he's the greatest, in my opinion, but doing the same kind of outlandish things. It takes a hell of a goddamn toll on your body, brother.
- [47:06]
Steve Austin
Well, it does. You know what I mean? But you look at these UFC fighters, too, you know, that the lifespan of their careers are, you know, at the top level is about three years, man. That's. That's it. These guys burnt out after three years. I look at a lot of these UFC fighters now, man, you know, and they look like old men. I mean, and they were, you know, octagon warriors 10 years ago. And you see them now, you go, wow, you know, Gabriel Gonzaga, what happened to him, you know, just because of, you know, I can only imagine what those guys feel like in the morning. Not just from the fight, not just the fighting portion of it, but the training, you know, going in there and beating that dummy up all day, going in there, running drills and whatnot, putting your body through stuff, you know. You know, I look at guys, you know, like Ronnie Coleman right now, you know, great. You know, the greatest. One of the greatest bodybuilders of all time, if not the greatest, you know, and the guy, you know, he's in a wheelchair now because the way he pushed his body, going out there, lifting, you know, you know, squatting, you know, 800 pounds, you know, you know, you know, repping, you know, behind the neck press, 500 pounds, you know, stressing his body out so much, you know what I mean? So that stress and toll that these UFC fighters put on themselves to go out there and fight for that one night. You know, it' a guy by the name of Roger, he was on the COVID of ESPN Magazine for the UFC back in the day. You probably don't even remember him now, but Roger Huerta, he's right now, he's still fighting, but his fight level and skills dropped off like that because there's no way that you can continue to push your body to go out and stay up to fight every single time to fight the number one contender. Look at Tyrone Woodley. Tyrone Woodley, they, they, this is a guy, you know, UFC welterweight champion, a guy who's done nothing but win in the ufc. But, but there again, he's a guy that's not that willing to go out there and say, hey, I'm not going to just fight when you tell me to fight. I'm not going to just go out there and fight who you want me to fight. You know what I mean? Just because, you know what I mean? He pretty much, you know, calls his own shots. They don't like that. That's one of the reasons why they threw this kid, this Englishman, Dara Teal in there. This kid who, you know, actually, actually was not even a welterweight. You know, they, they put Darren Teal in there to say, let's, let's get the strap off this guy. We got to get the title off of him. You know what I mean? But Tyron Woodley, he's consistent. He does nothing but one thing. He goes out there and perform each and every night. That's because he take care of himself. He's not one of those guys.
- [49:40]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Hey, man, while he's talking about the brutality of some of the shots these people are taking, man, Carla Esparza, former champion, she gets in it with Diana Suarez, who overcomes thyroid cancer way back in the day. And dude, just go ahead and expand upon what your thoughts on that fight.
- [49:59]
Steve Austin
Well, Nami Uneasy have been watching, you know what I mean? Rose should have been watching very, very close because the girl, she's big, she's long. I mean, she may call her espousal, look like a little bitty girl in there. I mean, she just rat tagged her. She just beat her all over the place. They should have stopped that fight, you know, just because it was a mismatch. You know, Carla sponsored, she's got good, but she's got beat up, you know, a couple of times. Then. It's just been a. It's just been about the level of fighter that she's going out there with. She's been getting overpowered just because she is, what, she's five foot tall, she's a small girl, and she's relying on a quickness to go out there and be with a, you know, fight a wrestler like Suarez. And Suarez, she did her job. She did her job, and she did it in fantastic fashion. Just a straight up beating.
- [50:47]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
But, man, I got to give a real big shout out to Carla Esparza. I mean, because, man, you talk about a damn throttling. I mean, Tyena Suarez was all over her, just kept taking her down, keep taking her down. And all of a sudden, there was one little hope spot when Carla gets up. And then all of a sudden, after that little hope spot, as we call it in pro wrestling, she backed down. And Suarez was just coming with those. That ground and pat and those vicious elbows, man. Yeah. I mean, dude, she was knotted up. It was brutal.
- [51:17]
Steve Austin
Yeah, yeah. And people, people compare, you know, MMA to boxing, you know, which. Which is the most dangerous sport, which one you take the most beating in, you know, and, you know, you look at that, you look at Carla Esparza face, you know, after a fight like that in boxing, that. That fight would have been stopped because of the brutality of it. And mma, the brutality, there is no stopping point until the guys is unconscious or dead, you know, in certain cases, you know, so it's definitely a brutal sport. And to see a woman like that, man, going out there, every time I see a woman get kicked to the ribs, man, all I think about is
- [52:00]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
eggs cracking in the business of pro wrestling, you know? Buck, Jesus Christ. You're listening to another classic episode of
- [52:11]
Steve Austin
the Steve Austin show, only on Podcast 1.
- [52:16]
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- [53:18]
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- [53:49]
Steve Austin
This is the Steve Austin Show.
- [53:52]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
In the business of pro wrestling, man, I hear a lot of guys, you know, getting concussions and stuff like that. And, and I don't really understand that because working the style that I worked, which was a very physical style, you know, I know when I got dropped on my head, I was concussed. I was probably, I don't know, man, we know more about, or science knows more about concussions than we did way back in the day, but I don't know more about concussions. I can only speak to think that I only had a few of them. How many concussions do you think you suffered? Because other than a hard ass chair shot or something like that, I just don't understand, like Mick Foley, I can understand why he had a lot of concussions and I say that with respect because he's a great friend of both of ours. But dude, did you get a bunch of concussions in the business?
- [54:40]
Steve Austin
I think I may have gotten two. And one was with Perry sat and he did a moonsaut off the second rope backflip and his knee caught me right on the chin and boom. And I went down. He covered me, one, two, kick out. He grabbed a real chin lock, you know, and he called a smart to me, you know, he go, you ready? I'm like, yeah, I'm ready, you know, know. And everything went to get up except my legs, you know, and I laid back down there. I go, wait a minute here, you know, hold on a second. You know, then I got myself back together. I remember wrestling the Nasty Boys, you know, and, you know, got hit in the head with a big jug of mustard, you know, and it knocked me silly, you know what I mean? But other than that, man, you know, I think it's the way that, you know, we did go out there to make sure that we was, you know, able to go and, you know, perform the following night. We were, you know, guys, we were great showmen, you know, we were great entertainers. You know, we went out there and we pushed it, you know, to a certain level, you know, But I teach here at my school, you know, that safety first, you know, I got to be able to. I got to make sure I take care of that guy that I'm working with. I can't take care of that guy that I'm working with. You know, it's going to be a problem. I'm never going to be able to work at the top level because the top level guy is not going to want to work with me. He's going to say, man, this guy's, you know, I, you know, I got to make money. You know what I mean? So therefore, you got to be a guy that can go out there and work with everybody. You're finished. That you do. You got to be able to go out there and do it with everyone. And I see guys now that, you know, they don't, they don't care about the safety of the guy that they're working with. They just pick them up and just toss them and how they land. And the thing is, the guy that's getting tossed, he don't care either, you know, so it goes both ways. He just picked me up and shoot behind me. So it's crazy, you know what I mean? So I do try to talk to the young guys and let them know that, hey, man, you can still old school, you know, I don't want to try to cross our era with these young guys era, it's their time. But I do try to tell them, I do try to tell them, hey, some of the stuff that we did, it still works today. All you got to do is just go out there and utilize.
- [56:47]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Hey, one of the things I forgot to talk about a fight, it was Jeff Neal working with Frank Camacho and holy shit, man, Jeff Neal, I'd never heard of the guy. Dude, he was just. His hands, his speed, his lateral quickness, his movement, his footwork was just premier. And Camacho was a tough ass guy. And at one time, man, he hooked up and told him to bring it, and he was getting his ass whooped. And then on the second round, and Jeff Neal almost finished him and got saved by the bell. And then Jeff got that fight. Yeah, yeah, but he had a ton of heart. But, dude, then coming in that second round, Jeff Neal come out of nowhere with that damn kick to the head. Dude, that was one of the worst knockouts I've ever seen.
- [57:30]
Steve Austin
No, and I tell you, man, he was, he was on Dream Street. So, I mean, he was out before he hit the floor. And that's the thing, you know, Jeff Neal, that's, that's another guy. He's, he's, he's tough. You know, he's a, he's an awesome fighter. But you just said it right there yourself, Steve. You know, with these UFC guys, you never heard of him, you don't know who he was. And so for my entertainment value, you know, I'm not going to be tuning in, you know, watch Jeff Neal. The next time, you know, the UFC come, I won't remember this guy. And that's the problem, you know, when you have, and that's the spotlight, you know, I think the sport need on it more than anything, you know. You know, you know, you and I sitting here talking about just that right there alone, is literally what these young guys, you know, I look at you, let's talk about him right now. Say Northgate, Sage Northgutt, he's a free agent now, you know, he's a young kid, you know, that they were looking to put the rocket on, you know, send this kid straight to the moon, you know what I mean? The kid was gonna be getting nothing but champagne wishes and caviar. Dream from this point on was this guy, this young kid realized how hard it is in the ufc. They keep throwing this guy, you know, you know, hard fights after hard fights, after hard fights, you know what I mean? He's gotten beaten a couple of times. If that was a kid of mine, you know, I mean, he'd have an undefeated record if I was promoting him, if I was up, if I was his promoter, if I was to ufc, you know what I mean? This kid, Sage Northcutt, he would have an undefeated record. He would have, you know, action figures like, you know, Ken the Dog, you know what I mean? He would, he would, that we would have, you know, video games with a calendar made up and all kind of, this kid will be making all kind of money. But Sage Northgutt chose to become a free agent, opposed to go back and take the money that the UFC is paying them right now. That's, that's, that's what's the problem with the ufc.
- [59:28]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
When you say he's a free agent, you mean his contract with UFC is up because, you know, he redeemed that one loss. He had a hell of a damn outing, what, about a month to ago, had a great fight. He was very aggressive. He's a good looking kid. A body like a Greek God. I mean, you know, he's a poster boy of One of fighters that you want to be able to highlight. He's not with the UFC right now.
- [59:49]
Steve Austin
Yeah. Oh, that's a big mistake with UFC right now. Right now he's talking right. Right now he's talking Bellator. Right now he's talking one FC right now. He's talking about, you know, guys out there getting paid. He's. He's actually said, and I quote, he's talked to a lot of his friends out there and other organizations that's making way more money than he's making right now. And when guys start talking like that openly, it means, hey, man, guys in there going through that kind of. This, this is my point right here, Steve. When guys going out there talking, you know, about money, when they're going out there, you know, fighting at that. At that level, it's a problem when you hear guys at the end of the night saying, man, man, I'm wishing and hoping I get the. That $50,000 bonus. I could really use it. You know, how many top professional wrestlers like yourself and I have. You been. Have been worried about a $50,000 bonus, right? How many?
- [60:44]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Not too many.
- [60:46]
Steve Austin
Exactly my point. Because we're getting. We professional wrestlers, we go out there and we work our butt off, you know, but we get paid very well, you know, for what we do. We go out and do a pay per view. We. We're not talking about, you know, how much money you work in the main event. In WrestleMania, you ain't got to. About how much money you made. You're happy. You're a happy man. You know, and when these guys go out and they. And they work in the main event and they still talk about they hoping they get a bonus tonight, that is a problem.
- [61:19]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Yeah, it's interesting, but, I mean, it's always like. And I can understand the fight of the night and wanting that. I mean, that's incentive, but I mean, for us, it was like, man, if you're on a pay per view, I mean, it was the same thing every single night in the house show, but more, more, especially more on a pay per view setting, you want to have the best match of the night, you want to steal the show. You know, Vince ain't gonna pay you no extra bonus. I mean, he could, depending on, you know, sometimes the sentimental factor would overweigh the number factor that they scientifically used to come up with payoffs. I mean, you could feasibly do that. But no, you weren't thinking, hey, I'm doing this for the bonus. I'm doing this because out of pride. I want to have the best match on the card. And when you have, when you set yourself, when you set the table by having match after match after match, it's good and your character is over. You're setting yourself up for bigger paydays down the road.
- [62:14]
Steve Austin
Bottom line. Exactly what I'm saying, you know, seemed like, you know, the reward would come there, you know, sooner or later, you know, but when you hear fighters, you know, like a George St. Pierre, you know, not want to fight because of a money issue, you know, there's a problem. You know what I mean? We know never, you know, guys that worked at the top level like us, you know, we never thought about, you know, you know, well, if we, if we were making good money or not, we know we were making good money. We knew, you know, our royalty check on our action figures was gonna, you know, be, you know, really good. Just, just on that alone, you know. But when I watch these guys go out there, you know, and they fight their butt off and they think about, you know, you know, want more money or need more money because they gotta pay some bills. It's just a problem. These fighters, man, they deserve more. And I think, I think we should advocate for them.
- [63:07]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
Well, it's interesting because I don't know the pay scale. I definitely know how.
- [63:11]
Steve Austin
I do.
- [63:11]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
You do okay. I know the pay scale for wwe. But here's the thing, dude. You know, when you got in the business, you can learn how to be a great mechanic, you can learn how to have a character, you can learn your psychology. You put it all together, but along the ways, because it is a business and you've run down the road. And I, I know you've said this just like I have, man, and everybody we know in a business has said this, oh, man, I'm making this kind of money, but I just shouldn't do it for free. That sounds good in theory, but at the bottom, at the end of the day, dude, we're businessmen. If you do not learn the pay structure and if you don't try to elevate your salary or take the necessary steps to make more money, whether you're in a promotion for wrestling, you have, or you're a gardener or landscape or whatever, you're only going to get, you know what, people want to pay you as less money as they can. That's just business. So it's incumbent upon everybody in the business, whether it's pro wrestling, MMA or whatever, to learn to pay scale or learn your worth and always push. I mean, you Heard all the stories about God rest its old warrior holding up vents at the last minute for this, that, or whatever, or somebody else holding Vince up right before pay per view. Now, that's a bullshit tactic, but wouldn't you agree that you spent the time, or took the time to learn the business aspect of the money? Because it ain't like you came from being a super rich family.
- [64:42]
Steve Austin
No, I mean, you got to know what you're worth. You know what I mean? You got to know if you better than the guy that's standing next to you. You got to know exactly. You know, if you selling tickets, putting asses in seats at the same time, that part comes along. You know, a lot of these UFC fighters, you know, they don't have that, that, that, that, that power to say, hey, man, I'm a draw. You know, pay me this, this much money. And truly, I understand that point right there. But when certain guys are at that point and they still are talking about money, you know, like, just say, for instance, you know, a guy become champion, and he calls out Dana White, and Dana, when am I going to get, you know, the big money? And he's the. It's the championship fight, you know, he should be talking about money. When it's a championship fight, that. That's the last thing the guy who wins should be talking about. But, but there again, I. I made sure I put myself in position to be one of those top guys. I put myself in position by going out there, working my ass, ass off, creating the character, going out there and having showmanship, knowing how to make the crowd, you know, feel a certain way. At the same time, a lot of these UFC fighters, they don't have character. A lot of these guys are pure testosterone. They go out there and they do one thing that. And fight. You know, I tell young people all the time, you know, in a UFC fight, you know, these guys ain't thinking about going out there and hitting the guy with a body slam and then going up to the top of the cage and dropping an elbow. He's. They're not thinking about that. They're going out there thinking about seek, destroy, and destruction. That's the only thing those guys think about. So, so totally, I understand that. But in doing that, they're not building a character. In doing that, they're not building, you know, a bigger following, but they are putting more wear and tear and pain on their bodies at the same time. You know what I mean? So, therefore, with the wwe, they create characters, they create their stars. They're the one who's behind, you know, pulling all the strings as far as what guys are going to be getting pushed to the top, you know, what guys are going to be begin, you know, you know, putting in certain angles, you know what guys are going to be headlined and main event, all these pay per views that's coming. I look at a guy like Chris Jericho and this guy, man, he's one of the hardest working men. He's like James Brown, you know what I mean? He goes out and everything that he's done, he's done it at his own, on his own man, in his own the court, man, he has created everything, you know, as far as, you know, you know, Chris Jericho goes. And, and to be able to do that is, you know what a lot of these young guys, you know, hopefully they, they could take, take some advice from them.
- [67:26]
Booker T
Guy like that.
- [67:28]
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This has been a podcast one production.
- [67:30]
Steve Austin
Download new episodes of the Steve Austin show every Tuesday@podcast1.com that's podcast o n e.com.
- [67:42]
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- [67:55]
Steve Austin (Podcast Host)
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Steve Austin
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Steve Austin
Shut up.
- [68:00]
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Steve Austin
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