The Steve Austin Show: Bull James (SAS CLASSIC) – Detailed Summary
Date: November 20, 2025 | Host: Steve Austin | Guest: Bull James (formerly Bull Dempsey)

Episode Overview

In this classic episode, Steve Austin sits down with Bull James—a.k.a. Bull Dempsey from NXT—to reflect on Bull’s wrestling journey, learning from legends like Matt Bourne and Dusty Rhodes, life inside the WWE/NXT system, and life on the independent circuit. The conversation is candid, fun, and peppered with unique perspectives on the business, memorable stories, and wrestling wisdom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Bull James’ Recent Indie Work

• House Shows & Matches
  • Bull talks about facing Hanson (now known as War King Hanson) at the Suffolk Theater.
  • Enjoys working with talented independent wrestlers—describes it as a "lot of fun" and emphasizes the chemistry between big men who can move.
  • "Getting to wrestle a guy like Hanson, who's killing it in Ring of Honor right now... this is actually our first time getting in there together ... a lot of back and forth and close fists..." (Bull James, 14:36–15:54)

2. Transition from NXT to Indies

• Freedom in Match Structure
  • Now sets out to create memorable "moments," referencing Terry Taylor’s advice.
  • "Wrestling fans aren’t going to remember full matches. They’re gonna remember moments."(Bull James, 17:02)
  • Notes the difference in working styles and creative constraints between NXT and the Indies.

3. Early Beginnings in Wrestling

• Entry into the Business
  • Debuted at 17 after eight months of training, credits journeyman wrestlers like Judas Young, Kodiak Baer, Danny Inferno, and guidance from Tommy Dreamer, Mikey Whipwreck, and Matt Bourne.
  • _"Everybody else was going, ‘can’t wait to watch on Monday,’ and I'm like, ‘I can't wait to be on Mondays.’" (Bull James, 18:43)

4. Learning from Matt Bourne (Doink the Clown)

• Mentorship and the Depth of 'Doink'

  • Matt Bourne’s portrayal of Doink was intensely intimidating, drawing on influences from Stephen King’s "It," various Joker interpretations, and old Portland mainstay Moondog Maine.
  • "Nobody was able to pull off the Doink the Clown character like Matt Bourne did..." (Steve Austin, 25:24)
  • Shares personal stories about road trips and late-night wrestling talk with Matt Bourne, absorbing his insights on reinventing yourself and watching workers like Terry Funk, Bruiser Brody, and Adrian Adonis.

• Notable Quote:

  • "The last thing he said to me... he goes, ‘I'm gonna tell you something that I've only told to Steve Austin and the Undertaker—you’re gonna make a million dollars in this business.’" (Bull James, 34:18)

5. Training Under Taz

• Finishing School Experience
  • Spent over a year refining his intensity and “mean streak” under Taz, which set him apart as a credible talent for WWE and was noticed by Austin himself.
  • "It was just intensity and slipping that gear... finding that mean streak and that intensity.” (Bull James, 24:04)

6. Getting Into NXT & Learning from Dusty Rhodes

• NXT Recruitment

  • Booked through Bill DeMott after networking, with a strong tryout aided by Matt Bourne’s and Taz’s recommendations.
  • “The hardest three days of my life... but I remember hitting it off with Dusty afterwards, after I cut my promo.” (Bull James, 38:51)

• Dusty Rhodes’ Mentorship

  • Dusty’s key advice: focus on real character and promo skills; encouragement helped Bull’s confidence.
  • Shares the “guys like us” praise from Dusty, which bolstered his belief and drive.
  • _"He would always refer to a guy... ‘guys like us’ when he would talk to me. That was always huge to me." (Bull James, 44:48)

7. Life at the WWE Performance Center

• Daily Life & Expectations
  • Details grueling schedules: early mornings, gym, ring training, promo classes, character work, and live events.
  • Discusses the large, ever-changing roster: sometimes up to 80 trainees, with high dropout rates as many struggle with bumps or don’t fit the lifestyle.
  • "If you want to get better, why aren’t you there?" (Bull James, 49:53)

8. Changes, Setbacks, and Post-NXT Evolution

• Creative Shifts & Release

  • Explains the behind-the-scenes decisions: shift from “Bull Dempsey” squash matches to the “bullfit” comedy gimmick, issues with being compared to Kevin Owens despite different styles.
  • Reflects on the depression and adjustments after leaving WWE, stressing never to lose the authenticity of his wrestling persona.
  • _"As long as there's people coming up to me... saying, you know, ‘hey, it's nice to see somebody different who can keep up with them’... I'm not going to go and change who I am." (Bull James, 58:49)

• On Body Types in Wrestling

  • Both he and Austin express frustration with the era of “cookie-cutter” body guys, praising the diversity in wrestling looks during the 1980s.
  • "I don’t want to see a bunch of bodybuilders in wrestling... the best thing about pro wrestling is the difference in physique." (Steve Austin, 58:49)

9. Returning to Serious Wrestling

• Defining His Future
  • Post-WWE, Bull reinvents himself: new gear, new approach, returning to serious, grounded wrestling.
  • "Let me get back to the serious stuff when I was really rolling... being that big guy with a motor who makes everything look believable." (Bull James, 62:36)
  • Both agree the seriousness in wrestling (with room for occasional 'ha ha') is more compelling and enduring.

10. Upcoming Appearances & Gratitude

• Bull shares his upcoming wrestling dates for House of Hardcore (Pittsburgh/Cleveland), ROH (Florida), and a UK tour.
• Expresses appreciation to Steve for the exposure and support.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On what fans remember:
  "As long as I try to create a moment or two in each one of my matches where people can remember it... then I'm doing my job."
  – Bull James (17:02)

• Matt Bourne’s parting words:
  "I'm gonna tell you something that I've only told to Steve Austin and the Undertaker. You're gonna make a million dollars in this business."
  – Matt Bourne to Bull James (34:18)

• On blending seriousness and comedy:
  "I love some of the comedy acts, but to me... I like the serious stuff. I love heat. I love when a babyface is over...that's when the magic happens."
  – Steve Austin (64:00)

Important Timestamps

• [13:09] – Podcast segment begins with Bull James introduction.
• [14:36–16:12] – Discussion of Bull’s recent indie matches and wrestling style.
• [17:02] – Terry Taylor’s advice about creating moments, not just matches.
• [21:02–26:06] – Bull discusses training and influence from Matt Bourne and Taz.
• [32:12] – Steve and Bull on working relationships and Bourne’s influence.
• [34:18] – Matt Bourne’s last words to Bull: “You’re gonna make a million dollars.”
• [38:51] – Bull’s account of his NXT tryout; meeting Dusty Rhodes.
• [44:48] – Dusty’s encouragement: “Guys like us.”
• [49:53] – Inside look at Performance Center routine.
• [53:21] – Adjusting to wrestling’s physicality as a newcomer.
• [55:17] – On creative transitions and being compared to Kevin Owens.
• [58:49] – Austin on body types in wrestling, Bull on staying authentic.
• [62:36] – Bull outlines reinventing himself post-WWE.
• [68:02] – Bull shares upcoming show dates, thanks Steve Austin.

Tone & Final Thoughts

The conversation is relaxed and authentic, with both Austin and Bull sharing their passion for wrestling and the realities behind the scenes—offering valuable lessons for aspiring wrestlers, keen insight for seasoned fans, and some heartfelt tributes to late industry icons. The episode stands as a testament to perseverance, reinvention, and staying true to oneself in the ever-evolving world of professional wrestling.

"You just use what you got to work the best for you... there's been many guys that don't look like some bodybuilder just came off the beach to make it in our business."
– Steve Austin (60:15)