Edge & Christian - SAS CLASSIC

Summary

The Steve Austin Show — SAS CLASSIC: Edge & Christian

Date: February 24, 2026
Host: Steve Austin
Guests: Adam Copeland (Edge), Jay Reso (Christian)
Location: Steve Austin in Los Angeles, CA; Edge in Dublin, Ireland; Christian in Milwaukee, WI

Episode Overview

In this highly entertaining episode of The Steve Austin Show, Steve catches up with two of his longtime friends and wrestling legends, Edge (Adam Copeland) and Christian (Jay Reso). The conversation—conducted across three time zones and continents—dives deep into their wrestling journeys, with a major focus on their legendary ladder and TLC matches, especially the iconic bouts from WrestleMania 17. The trio also touches on life after wrestling, career transitions, and the mindset behind taking risks to stand out in a golden age of WWE talent.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up: Life After Wrestling

• Edge’s Acting Career:
  • Edge discusses transitioning to acting after being medically disqualified in 2011, getting roles on Haven and later Vikings (06:49).
  • He describes the challenge and fulfillment of acting: “I realized that that was still going to tap into that part of my brain that I need to tap into. If not, then who knows what I become. So I really started studying.” (07:10)
• Christian’s Post-WWE Life:
  • Christian shares his love of hockey and his current appearance in Milwaukee for an AHL team (12:31).
  • Talks about his hockey background as a kid and how the mentality of hockey influenced his wrestling work ethic (14:43).

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2. Facing Retirement & Injuries

• Edge’s Retirement:
  • Edge opens up about being medically disqualified in 2011 after years of neck problems post-double fusion surgery (16:03).
  • Reflects: “It wasn’t as hard as I thought it was going to be… I’d been coming to terms with it because I knew my body was just a fraction behind what my mind was telling it.” (16:19)
• Christian’s Injury Journey:
  • Describes being injury-free until 2010, then facing a torn pec, ankle injury, and a string of concussions leading to retirement (22:11).
  • Notably, he delayed his pec surgery so that Alberto Del Rio could write him off TV, emphasizing his professionalism: “If we can maybe have him take me out, maybe that’s the reason for me to be gone...let’s get him some heat.” (24:00)
  • Receives recognition from Vince McMahon for his professionalism after surgery (29:48).
• Both discuss the challenges and mentality of working through pain, reinforced by their backgrounds and road stories.

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3. The Early Years, Training, and Building Relationships

• Both Edge and Christian recall their time at Ron Hutchison & Sweet Daddy Siki’s school, and later attending Dory Funk Jr.’s Funkin’ Dojo in WWE (30:06–32:13).
• Christian’s drive and loyalty are highlighted during his developmental days—he calls Jim Cornette regularly to stay on the radar and honors commitments with indie promoters, earning respect from WWE brass (35:51–38:04).
• The value of learning from veterans (Ron & Siki, Dory, Bret Hart, Rick Martel, Bad News Brown) and grounding their style in psychology before adopting the faster, more athletic approach associated with their tag work (39:30–42:13).

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4. Montreal Screwjob: Their Perspective

• Both attended the infamous Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels match at Survivor Series 1997.
  • Christian: “We had been backstage the entire day...I remember when the finish happened, we didn’t really register at the time. I just looked at Adam and said, that was kind of strange, wasn’t it?” (43:29)
• The next day, the reality set in, and Edge worried about “falling out” as a Bret Hart guy (44:03–46:06).

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5. The Creation & Evolution of Ladder/TLC Matches

Origin & Pitch

• The first tag team ladder match with the Hardys was pitched by Edge & Christian as a way to stand out in a stacked WWE roster (48:11).
  • Christian: “It was strictly a thing to get noticed...We just knew that this was gonna be hopefully our springboard into becoming...WWE Superstars, you know, and that was what we were trying to do.” (49:12)
  • They suggested a “Best of Seven” ending in the first-ever tag team ladder match, leading to the “Terry Invitational Tournament”.

Philosophy & Execution

• Edge: “Our mentality was always, we don’t want anybody to be able to follow this.” (53:44)
• TLC matches developed further when the Dudleys joined, bringing their own energy and dynamic (55:20).
• Strong, mutual trust between all six participants, including Matt & Jeff Hardy and Bubba Ray & D-Von, was key:
  • “If somebody’s gonna follow us, they are gonna have to really kick ass tonight.” (55:55)
• The process of match layout involved all six, frequent disagreements, and creative collaboration:
  • “It wasn’t coming from a place of anybody being mad at each other. It was a place of passion.” (63:15)

Match Psychology

• Christian: “We realized if it was going to have any lasting power and if people were going to stay engaged...we couldn’t just let them be car crashes...we were trying to get some psychology in these matches.” (62:48)
• The challenge became balancing their “gimmick match” fame with proving they could still work classic tag bouts (65:43).

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6. WrestleMania 17 Ladder Match & Iconic Moments

• Both Edge and Christian agree TLC 2 at WrestleMania 17 was the pinnacle, with lasting legacy (“that’s the best card and the best pay per view ever”—Edge, 53:22).
• Steve Austin: “That match...was just super exciting...that was just spectacular. I just don’t know any top that.” (52:41, 78:09)
• Discussion of the iconic spear from Edge to Jeff Hardy:
  • Edge breaks down the technical risks and timing required for the spot (75:23–76:33).
  • Christian reflects on not realizing at the time how iconic that moment would become: “If I did, I would have volunteered to be the one doing the spot...” (73:30)

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7. Aftermath: Legacy & Personal Reflections

• Despite high dangers, all focused on pulling off memorable, safe matches and putting the team first over “who gets the win” (82:00–83:16).
• Love and mutual respect between the teams described as a “lifelong bond” (63:14).
• Christian on the group’s post-match ritual: “We’d always try to go find a little corner just to be up by ourselves...just chill and just hang out and just laugh a little bit, you know?” (86:15)
• Edge notes the thrill and pride of their lasting impact: “...now I look back, and Dudleys are going to the hall of fame this year, and, you know, Jay and the Hardee’s are gonna go in, and it’s like, okay, we did it. That’s where it all started.” (87:13)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• Edge on acting: “If not, then who knows what I become. So I really started studying...just like I used to watch wrestling matches and go, okay, why did that guy do this here?” (07:10)
• Christian on his torn pec: “I just don’t want to screw him over, like, last second and hurt his show. I’m not sure what to do here. And they said, well, hold on, we’ll call you back...First of all, Vince McMahon appreciates, but, like, to keep their commitments...” (35:51)
• On the first tag ladder match: “What if we do a best of seven match and every match is a different stipulation, and then it ends with the first ever tag team ladder match?” – Christian (49:09)
• Edge on the locker room after the Screwjob: “How can that not happen the chance of that happening to everybody else?” (46:06)
• On TLC psychology: “We couldn’t just let them be car crashes...we were trying to get some psychology in these matches. Like a reason to actually do certain things...” – Christian (62:48)
• On match legacy: “WrestleMania is about making moments, right?...You see that spot where Adam spears Jeff Hardy off the ladder….that’s one of those moments.” – Christian (73:02)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Topic | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 06:49 | Edge’s transition to acting and getting cast in Vikings | | 16:03 | Edge discusses retiring due to medical disqualification | | 22:11 | Christian recounts his own major injuries/history | | 30:08 | Both discuss their wrestling training roots and mentors | | 43:13 | Both recall attending the Montreal Screwjob and reacting to it | | 48:11 | Story of how the first tag team ladder match was their own pitch | | 53:22 | WrestleMania 17 regarded as the best card ever | | 62:48 | Christian & Edge talk about building psychology into TLC matches | | 75:23 | Edge breaks down the technical details of the WrestleMania 17 spear spot | | 84:59 | Post-match reactions and emotions after WrestleMania 17 | | 87:29 | Plug for Edge & Christian’s podcast: ENC’s Pod of Awesomeness |

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Edge & Christian’s Podcast

ENC’s Pod of Awesomeness

• Weekly show featuring their trademark humor and in-depth wrestling discussions.
• Notable segment: “Anatomy of a Match”—deep dives into the creative and emotional process behind one signature bout, with an upcoming planned episode involving Steve Austin and Bret Hart (87:52).

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Episode Tone & Energy

• Conversation is playful, nostalgic, but also deeply reflective.
• Strong sense of camaraderie and mutual respect, both for each other and the wider wrestling community.
• Balance between inside stories (“don’t look at me game”), technical insight, and old-school wrestling humility: “Our goal was to go out and go, okay, if somebody’s gonna follow us, they are gonna have to really kick ass tonight.” – Edge (55:52)

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Conclusion

This episode is a masterclass in wrestling history, psychology, and legacy—as told by men who helped define an era. Essential listening for wrestling fans, nostalgic for the Attitude Era or looking to understand the behind-the-scenes passion, risk-taking, and professionalism that elevated Edge, Christian, and their peers from “WWE wrestlers” to true “WWE Superstars.”

Transcript

[Steve Austin]

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[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

The following Program is a podcast ONE.com

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

production from Hollywood, California by way of

[Steve Austin]

the Broken Skull Ranch.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

This is the Steve Austin Show.

[Steve Austin]

Give me a hell. Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Now here's Steve Austin.

[Steve Austin]

All right, everybody. Welcome to Steve Austin Show. I am coming to you from the mean streets of Los Angeles, California. Today. I got a hell of a podcast for you. I'm talking to Edge and Christian, Adam Copeland and Jay Rizo, two of my good friends from the WWE days way back in the day. Two guys who, just like me, are now retired from the business of professional wrestling. I got a chance to catch up with Edge, who's over there. I think he's in Ireland filming Vikings. Jay Riso was over there doing an appearance somewhere in Wisconsin. I'm sitting here at 317 Gimmick Street. This is the first time I've ever Skyped with two cats. So it's an interesting conversation. We're going to Talk for about 90 minutes. We're going to talk a little bit about their past as they come up in the business, a few of the wise words I may have shared with them. And we're really going to talk about ladder matches and table ladder and chair matches, specifically the one from WrestleMania 17, which involved Christian and Edge, the Dudley Boyz, Bubba Ray and D. Von and the Hardy Boys, Jeff and Matt, and with a special appearance by Rhino, Spike, Dudley and the one and only Lita. This was a hellacious match which just blew the doors off. Just pretty much about everything at night. And what a stacked card. It was with myself and the Rock headlining the event at the Astrodome in Houston on WrestleMania 17. We'll talk about some of their other things as well. But I'll tell you what, I called Christian up yesterday when I was walking around the streets in Los Angeles walking my dogs, and said, hey, man, I said, I'd like for you guys to be on my podcast. And I didn't know if we was going to be able to make this thing work with Edge being out of the country, but we did. It was a great conversation that I very much enjoyed talking with These guys and I will be on their podcast in the next few weeks as we do their breakdown of a match, and I think will probably select WrestleMania 13 and maybe the one and only Brett the Hitman Hart will participate in that podcast as well. That's to be dropped in the future. And stay tuned to Edge and Christian's podcast for more details on that. But you'll hear that come up at the end of the conversation. And I would look forward to talking about with Brett, the match that we had in Chicago at the Rosemount Horizon, my favorite building to work in with the one and only Brett the Hitman Hart, a guy that I really, really have so much respect for. And, man, I love that guy. So, anyway, that's coming up, but here's my conversation with Edge and Christian. I enjoyed talking to these guys. I've known them for a long time. We never traveled together, we never ran in the same circles, but we always enjoyed each other's company. Jacking around with each other, killing time, playing jokes on each other, playing the don't look at me game, which is the dumbest thing in the history of the world. I forget how we invented that game, but nonetheless, maybe we'll talk about it on their podcast. It's absolutely childish, but that's what you do when you're on the road as many days as a year. We were trying to kill time.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

This is the Steve Austin Show.

[Steve Austin]

I'm rolling sound. I'm over here at 317 Gimmick Street. Man, this is kind of unexpected and in short notice. Hell, I was walking down the street

the other day with my two labs, Moolah and Cali, and I said, man, I've been off the air for a week, I gotta do a podcast. I've been wanting to talk to Christian Edge, so I figured I'd shout him out. And I called Christian up and I said, hey, man, what's up? So we shot the breeze and I said, hey, man, let's do my podcast and then we'll do one of yours. You guys like to break down matches and stuff like that. And I said, what about Edge? What's his schedule? And Edge, you are in another part of the world. Because, Jay, where are you right now?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I am in. I'm in Milwaukee. I got an appearance here today, so that's where I am. But we're all over the place, man.

[Steve Austin]

So you're in Milwaukee. I'm in the mean streets of Los Angeles, California, and the big shot over there working on a series, a movie or whatever you want to call it. Adam, where in the hell are you at?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I'm in Dublin, Ireland. So we are. We're Globetrotters right here. This is a globetrotting podcast. We got the west coast, we got the Midwest, and we got damn Europe.

[Steve Austin]

God dang. I was just talking to Jay before I was trying to get signed on here. I was getting my wife to add you guys on my Skype account because I don't know how to do it. And I was telling Jay, I was like, man, I got a little 12 pound dog that lives next door to me, and I've got every door shut over here in house to try to block that damn dog sound out. And the dog weighs 12 pounds, but he's got the vocal cords of a hundred pound mastiff. I dare, I double dog dare someone, no pun intended, to throw a hundred pound dog bone over that some bitch so I don't have to listen to him bark anymore.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It's always little ones that bark loudest, man.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I don't know. I think the thing is starting for attention, but I mean, you know, Jesus Christ. I'm trying to win an award over

here for the greatest podcast in the

history of the business. I really think my chances are slim,

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

guys, I disagree because we're on it. So if this show doesn't get it done.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Well, here's something you need to know, and I'm just going to full disclosure here, Steve. We're double agents, so we've actually come to sabotage your podcast to make sure ours is the greatest podcast and we win that award.

[Steve Austin]

You ain't got to work very hard to sabotage this thing. It's the biggest cluster buck in the podcast business. Hey, before we get started, man, you know, hell, I didn't want to go down memory lane and just shoot the breeze and just go ABC 1, 2, 3. I really wanted to talk a lot about ladder matches, TLC matches, and stuff like this. But before we get involved into that discussion, Adam, with the Acting stuff. Have you been been pursuing that hardcore ever since you left the business? Because I know your one show got canceled and then what are you working on right now? Vikings.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, I'm on Vikings now. And, you know, it wasn't something that I was going after. I really just, you know, when I got the news that I was medically disqualified, I was like, okay, I don't know, we'll see what comes next. I really, I didn't know. And that show, haven, they saw my retirement speech, said, hey, do you want to come up to an episode? That episode turned into 42 episodes, but it was about halfway through the second season with them that I said, yeah, I really dig this. And I think we're all of the same mind that got to be doing something creative. Have to be jets just the way our minds work. And I realized that that was still going to tap into that part of my brain that I need to tap into. If not, then who knows what I become. So I really started studying. I started taking classes. I started watching movies and peeling back. Why actors were making choices. Just like I used to watch wrestling matches and go, okay, why did that guy do this here? And then listen to that reaction there. So I would watch movies and just really watch the performances and okay, that made me feel this way. Why? It was because of this choice and this choice. So I really started studying and then, yeah, Hayden finished up. I did an episode of the flash and then I got the audition for this and a week later I was out here.

[Steve Austin]

What did you have to do that? Did you have to go to, like, do a read? Did you audition for it? Did you say, man, this guy looks like a viking? Tall, blond headed guy, kind of looks like a viking. Let's give him the part. What was the story?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Well, so I auditioned. I told my management team. I was like, listen, I've got a short list of shows that I really want to go after. And Vikings was right in there because I'd always been a fan of the show, always been, you know, just intrigued by the whole Viking mythology and everything. So I read for the part. I did a little Skype session with this woman up in Toronto to try and just get in the wheelhouse of the accent, make sure I was at least somewhere in the ballpark so I didn't embarrass myself. I sent in a self tape and they said, okay, yeah, we need you here in five days. And, yeah, that was pretty much it. And then it's been hit the ground running ever since. And now I'm over here is, gosh, almost two years off and on.

[Steve Austin]

So what's the shoot schedule like? You try to knock out a block of, you know, scenes that you're in. You know, how big of a part do you have in this thing?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It's. It's such a huge show and there's so many different storylines. What has been amazing about it is they'll try and knock out one storyline's worth of stuff like in a week or two weeks. So then you have, you know, two weeks off. Because we do like either two episode, one month blocks or three episodes. So for instance, this block that we start tomorrow, we're doing three episodes in one month. And it just so happens that we're doing three episodes worth of content for our storyline in one week. And then I get to go home. You know, that's pretty rare, but I think it's just due to the amount of characters in this show and the storylines. You just, you know, you'll be super busy for one week and then have three weeks off.

[Steve Austin]

Does that keep you away from home enough that Beth can maintain her sanity but not miss you too much for being, for being gone on the road? Dude, you guys both. Well, Adam, I can't remember when you got married, but I mean, Jesus, Jay's been married forever and it's well documented. You know, my success rate in the marriage department, staying in the wrestling business hasn't been so great. Now I've been with the same woman for 14 years, married, give or take, for about nine. So I guess the schedule is pretty doable for both of you guys. And the fact you've got a young one now.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, I know. Well, for me personally, I get back whenever I have breaks and we got two little girls now, so it's. When I get home, Beth can get a bit of a break. And what's great about this gig is that I'm in one spot. It's not a different city every night. You know, I come back to the same place that they have rented out for me. I can call the girls, you know, kind of constantly throughout the day. It's not the same hectic thing that wrestling was. And I think that's, you know, you and I are both proof that that was a tough industry to have relationships in. Jay's the complete opposite of the norm, I think, and was able to do it somehow. And how, I don't know, because look at him and look at his wife and somehow he still managed it.

[Steve Austin]

Well, he's the white meat, baby face. And this discussion when it comes to marriage is you squeaky clean bastard. Before I ask Jacob a question, you spoke of this accent. Can you give me a little bit of your accent that you use on Vikings?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I can, yeah. The real hard lessons where it's like, it's hard S's. So if you're gonna. There's no such thing as as or is or his. So it's hiss ass. I am Chateau Flatnos. So I talk a little bit like this and the fluctuation goes up and down and it's, it's quite Simpsony.

[Steve Austin]

God dang, are you a violent Viking?

Are you a sissy Viking?

Well, I tell you what, Fatima, you wrestling promo. I don't know how long you would last it with your very distinguished career.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

It sounded at any point, at any point in time you could break out into a yodel, which would have been awesome.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, yeah, well, and I'm wearing braids. So,

[Steve Austin]

Jay, what in the wide, wide world of sports are you doing in Wisconsin?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

So, yeah, I have a little, little appearance here today. There's a hockey team that I'm doing and I'm a huge hockey fan. Anybody that knows me or. So it's the ahl, which is a league below the NHL. So it's the, it's the affiliate team of the National Pred. So yeah, I'm going over there. I'm even trying to talk him into letting me, you know, put some skates on and play in the game. I mean, I think that, you know, a 44 year old rookie that hasn't put skates on in about 15 years, it needs work on his shot and his positioning and is somewhat beat up from wrestling. I think that would be a good addition to any pro team.

[Steve Austin]

Hey man, there's drawing power there. There's strong power there. Did you play as a kid?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah, I did actually. I played right up to junior hockey, obviously, growing up in Canada. And it was funny, like growing up in class, they would have these little sessions, I guess, where they would have you write little essays and stuff about what you wanted to be when you grew up and all these sorts of things. And I remember going up to the teacher and saying, well, I'm a little conflicted because I'm either going to be a pro wrestler or a pro hockey player. I haven't decided yet. They're like, okay, maybe just like pick one and write about that or write about both. I was right off pretty early on. I realized that I wanted to do something that wasn't quite normal. And I had it in my Head that I'd be both of those and wasn't quite good enough to be a pro hockey player. I wasn't quite good enough to be a wrestler, but I somehow made that work.

[Steve Austin]

From the exterior, you look like a completely normal person, but obviously, dude, with your choices of what you wanted to do, a wrestler or a hockey player. Here's the thing. Growing up in South Texas, man, I never was a hockey fan. I didn't get it. A bunch of guys skating around the ice with a stick, chasing a puck, then all of a sudden they fight. Like, they just. They just start dropping gloves and they just start fighting like hell. From all your hockey days, how did that mentality not come forth in your wrestling days? Because I never knew you as a scrapper, but Jesus Christ. I mean, pretty much all pro wrestlers are tough. Not necessarily tough fighters, but tough people. My impression of hockey players, that they're all tough as nails and they'll fight at the drop of a hat. I've never known you to have any kind of temper or ever get in a fight.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah, I mean, I have, and I mean, Adam and I got in our. Our share of bar fights, and Adam was a bouncer, and I would go and hang out at the bar that he bounced at, and there was a lot of times where he got in trouble. I just jump in and help him and things like that. But, you know, I've never considered myself any kind of tough guy or anything, but I always felt like I could defend myself if I. If I needed to. And, you know, the worst that's going to happen is you're going to lose a fight. I mean, that's. That's really the worst that's going to happen.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Right.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

So it's. I never really thought about it that much, and it's like I decided, you know, I think you're right, though. I think that there's a mentality, I think, with wrestling also, you know, it's very much the same, I see with hockey and having played hockey, that necessarily isn't there with other sports where if

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

you're hurt, you try to work through it.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

It was just the mentality, right?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

You try not to let them know

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

that you're hurt, and you just. You somehow fight through it, and that's what you do. And that's kind of ingrained in your. In your DNA from an early time, like training to wrestler or trained to play hockey. And I think they're very similar in that sense where they're just able to endure a lot of pain. And it's like, maybe the same thing as, like wrestling. When you're there and you're taking bumps, almost like you build up a callus on your body, right? Like you, you, you get used to. And if you haven't bumped for a while, like six months or something, if you're off with an injury and you come back, those first few bumps, man, they, they hurt. They hurt a lot, right? So it's like, I think it's the same kind of thing. You build up like a cat. The body kind of builds up some sort of callus, I think, you know, in the same sort of way playing hockey as in wrestling.

[Steve Austin]

You know, you said something earlier, Adam, about being medically disqualified, and I have it somewhere in my notes. Well, you retired in 2011 when you were medically disqualified, as you said. You know, what were your initial feelings? What came over you? What were your thoughts? How did you process that?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It was a strange time, you know, because in terms of the mental aspect of the game, I felt like I was firing on more cylinders than I ever had. You know, I'd been doing it for 20 years, and I really felt like I was transitioning into an area of my career where I was just going to be able to help younger talent and be able to get in there and just kind of talk to guys and say, hey, listen to that. Check this out. You know, things like that. So I knew that I was rounding the corner into the end. I just didn't know that it was going to be that quick. So it wasn't as hard as I thought it was going to be. To be perfectly honest, I guess is the. Is the short, long answer. I'd been coming to terms with it because I knew my body was just a fraction behind what my mind was telling it. And I didn't know why. I was like, something's just a little off and, you know, my neck sore. But that stands to reason. I had a Fusion done at the two level Fusion. So it's going to be sore. And that's just always what I thought, you know, turns out there was more going on in there that we just didn't know about.

[Steve Austin]

When was the Double Fusion and what are the problems that you're speaking of?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Well, so I had the double Fusion in, I think it was 2002 and went down to San Antonio with Youngblood. And, you know, you helped me a lot through that. And so I did that. I came back and I wrestled nine more years, you know, after that. And, you know, just I look back at some of the folks I was working and this is in no way a knock on them, but you're going to hear the list and understand, oh, I was the one bumping a lot because it was taker, it was Kane, big show, it was Batista, it was Cena, it was, you know, I was working those baby faces. So as a heel, I was a bump and heel and I was a bump and heel with a two level fusion. So eventually it's going to catch up. And the way it started catching up is, you know, I'd be sitting on a plane and I just noticed my hands were trembling and I, I couldn't control it. Like, I couldn't stop it. I went, okay, that's. That's different. That's odd. And I didn't really kind of understand the extent of what really was going on until I had another surgery in 2012 and they put in a rubber disc at C4 and they took the pressure off the cord and I woke up on a stretcher in a hallway in the Pittsburgh hospital and I didn't have a headache and I went, whoa. I didn't realize I'd had a headache for close to a decade because it became the new norm. You know, it just, it's what you get used to and that's what it is. So it just becomes normal to you. And I'll look back at a match now or something and I'll see the veins in my temples just jumping out of my head and I'm like, oh, yeah, well, that's why. Because I had that pounding headache for that long. Hey, this is Adam Carolla from the Adam Carolla Show. Well, if you care about predictions, you care about props. And nobody does props like Betonline. For years, we've been the home of legitimate sports betting with deep markets, sharp odds and player props that reward real insight.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

The game starts here.

[Steve Austin]

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So I was doing research for Jay and I didn't know that you were going to be able to join in on a conversation because of your schedule and where you're located. So I know that jay made almost 20 years. How long did you end up in the business, Adam?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Well, I started when I was 17, retired when I was 37. So right at 20, but the full grind of WWE, that started 97, okay,

[Steve Austin]

but about a 20 year career. I mean and dude, so like you said, when the things start kind of springing up, it's like with that much time with that kind of a career and I think I got cut short maybe, give or take. And I, you know, don't get me wrong, I took my ball and went home. I had to heal up for my neck Fusion, but I think I made 13 years in the business. So a run like that, I can understand seeing the light with you, Jay. Almost 20 years. What was the thing? You never had a Fusion, correct?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

No, I didn't. So when with with me, knock on wood, I actually was pretty injury free until I want to say it was like probably 2010ish. I had like one minor back injury, like 2004. I think that that sidelined me for a couple months. And other than that I didn't really, I was, you know, obviously banged up and things like that, but I never had anything major until I put my pec in 2010. And yeah, in 2010 it was funny because I'd never been hurt before, right. And like it was one of those ones where I went to, I was wrestling CM Punk and I went to pick him up and I just reached down and you know, I felt it go. And I knew that previously it had been like, there was a slight tear there. So I was in the shower after, and I looked down. There's this lump on the bottom of my chest. And so I finished up and I went and looked and talked to the trainer, and I said, does this look right to you? He goes, no, I think you tore your pack. And so I flew home the next day, and they threw me in an mri. You know, it was funny because I. I had never really had an injury before. And they said, well, we're gonna fly you up to Pensacola the next day to see Dr. Andrews. Because he also not. He was in Birmingham for a couple days and also had a clinic in Pensacola. So I went to see him, and he looked at it and he's like, yeah. And then he starts talking. He's like, well, you know, what we'll do is we'll fly your wife up here.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

So she's here.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

We'll get you on the bed at about 1 1pm and I'm like, hold on a second. This is happening today. I was like, yeah, yeah, let's get it done. I said, hold on a second here.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I need to.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I need to just get some air. I'd never been cut before. I'd never had a surgery. So you, baby. So I was like, I just. I need to go outside and get some air. So I walk out, I was like, you know what? I was like this. I'm out of here. So I start walking towards the. To the airport. I'm just. In my head. I'm like, I'm just walking the airport.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I'm gonna fly home.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And so about 20 minutes later, my phone rings, and it was John Laurinaitis, who's the head of talent Relations. And he's like, where are you? And I was like, ah, man. I'm just, like, just walking. He's like, well, you need to go back. They need to get you ready for surgery.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

No, I don't.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I don't really want surgery. You know, you have to do it and this and that. And then, like, I'm just trying to buy time, right? So, like, I just had never been cut, and I couldn't grasp this was going to happen to me. And so I just had said to him, I said, look, you know, one thing that I hate on TV is when something starts, and then all of a sudden, it's just dropped for no reason whatsoever. And they had just the week before, literally started a program with me and Alberto Del Rio, and they did this thing with him And Ray, where he'd taken Ray out, and then, you know, I'd kind of come to Ray's defense, and I'm starting this feud with. With Alberto. And so I just kind of said to him, look, I said, you know, I'm not sure what's going on here, but if we can maybe have him take me out, maybe that's the reason for me to be gone. Like, I just don't want to be gone for no reason. All of a sudden, when we just. The last thing to see is me slapping this guy in the face and getting. And kind of him taking a powder, backing up the ramp away from me. That's the last thing you see from me for six months. Like, let's. If we're gonna do something with it, let's get him some heat. And then also, on the flip side, when I come back, I gotta have something to come back to. He's like, okay, look, you gotta go back to the hospital regardless.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

So.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Gotta get back to the hospital, you know, talk to the. Talk to the surgeon and see what he says. So we got back there, and I talked to Andrew. He's like, oh, yeah, it's not gonna get torn any worse than it is. It's. It's as bad as it's gonna get if you can deal with the. The. How irritating it is and how.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And the little bit of pain that you're gonna have.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

He said, I wouldn't wait any longer than 10 days. You're gonna start having scar tissue. But, you know, if you wanna wait another week and do something on tv, I'm completely fine with that. So that's what we did. So the next week, I went up and we did a thing where he took me out, and I was. The next day went down, and a week later, I had the. Had surgery. And that was kind of the first one, you know. And then I kind of went on a little string there of unlucky kind of like, injuries. Like, I had an ankle injury, which was a freak thing, and I was doing a baseball slide on a. On an overseas tour. It was in that weird arena in. In Belgium, you know, that had, like, the graffiti backstage, and it was, like, a really strange building, and they always had this, like, really big ramp. It's almost like a ladder. You had to climb up to get to the curtain to walk down the ramp. And it was early on in the match, I was wrestling Seamus in this baseball slide, and, like, I caught my toe, and I thought. I thought my bone came out of my.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

My leg.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Like, I felt something running down my leg. So we finished the match. I got help back up the ramp. And it was funny because Big show was waiting for me at the top of the ramp. And I basically fell off the top onto his shoulder. And he carried me through these back halls to the trainer room. And I thought I was gonna pull my boot off and my bone was gonna be sticking out of my leg. And I took it off. Luckily, it wasn't. We went to some hospital somewhere, and there was like. Like, this kid looked like he was 11 years old. Like, Doogie Howser was coming to give me my. My, you know, give me an assessment on my ankle. They. They do it on an X ray, and they're like, can we get a copy of this? So they bring out, you know, Larry. Larry, the trainer was with me, right?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

So they had. They came out and they hand him, like, this photocopied sheet of my. My X ray. And we're looking at it, and we're both just staring at it. And I said, Larry.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

He's like, yeah.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I was like, we're gonna get a second opinion on this. He goes, yeah, I think so. So we. So we ended up. I ended up flying home from that. And, man, they actually. The doctor actually told me would have been better if I just broke my leg because of the. I had like, the severe high ankle sprain. And they said it would have much cleaner if I just broke it. And then from that, then after that, I started getting, like, dinged. Like, I got dinged a few times with my. With my head. And, you know, I was going to see neurologists and things like that. And finally I had gotten a couple concussions kind of, I would say, within a few months of each other.

[Steve Austin]

How are you getting these concussions?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Just like, you know, the first time, it was actually I caught Rey Mysterio on a body press. And I was doing this, you know, because Ray's like. He's so fun to work, right? Like, he. And he flies so high. Like, I thought it'd be. Look super awesome if. If he was coming off with the springboard body press. If I jumped into it, it and took it, like, in the air. And so when I jumped into it, I caught him a little high and he landed on my head, and that knocked me out. So it just started from there. And then it was just, you know, one was a kick and another one was just. I took a bump and hit the back of my head on the floor.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It was just like.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And then the neurologists were Just kind of like, look, it's kind of like a boxer, you know, you can get. You can be fine for years and years and years, but once you get that. That big one, it's almost like, you know, it just becomes easier and easier to get them at this point with you, it's almost like, not if it's gonna happen again. It's when is it gonna happen, right? So putting everything in perspective, for me, it was, look, I just had a baby girl, and, you know, I've accomplished a ton of things that I want. It wasn't like I was 31 or 29 or 30 or 31 years old, where I still had so much ahead of me and all these things to accomplish. You know, I was gonna be 40 years old, and I'd done a lot, and I pretty much accomplished everything I ever wanted to accept. You know, main event, Wrestlemania. But let's be honest, that doesn't happen

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

for most people, right?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And I mean, present company excluded, being happy with you guys, but, hey, whatever. No big deal.

[Steve Austin]

You know, going back to the. To the pec surgery to reattach your pec. You know, first of all, you know, when someone says, hey, man, we need you under the knife now, you know, that's a heavy duty blow. And all of a sudden, you can't, you know, whether you've been cut or not, you know, to get prepped for surgery, you know, at a moment's notice is one thing, but. But to say, hey, man, this is where I was in my storyline. I want to go out there and finish the storyline. So we get some heat on Del Rio, and to me, man, that's the mark of a true pro, and that's first class. Try to take care of some business. Doc says, hey, man, you're cool for another week, but we don't want to push it any more than that. So I got to give you props for that.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah, no, it was cool, too, because, I mean, Vince text me after the surgery too, right? Like, he texted me and said that he had been in contact, and they told him it went well and. Same thing. He just thanked me for my parental professionalism. I thought that was, you know, that. That stuff that motivates you to want to come back, you know, to work harder to come back when you get just. Just a little message like that just goes a long way. Right?

[Steve Austin]

You guys both went through the same wrestling school, right?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, yeah. Ron Hutchison and sweet daddy Siki.

[Steve Austin]

Now, where does the Dory Funk come into play on this? Or did he not?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Well, he did. But, you know, we were both lucky in that throughout the years, we kind of had people bestow some knowledge on us. You know, the initial training was Ron and Siki in Toronto, and we both trained there. Then from there, gosh, wrestled about five years and then started making some headway with wwf doing house shows in Hamilton and things like that. That's when they said, hey, we're doing this thing called the Funkin Dojo down in Stanford. We want to bring you there. Get in with Tom Pritchard. Get in the Dory Funk Junior. Bruce is going to. Bruce Prichard is going to be there. Pat Patterson is going to be there. And this was the initial one that they'd ever done, and it was guys that they were interested in or guys that were on the roster that just needed some seasoning or grooming or like, Taka was there and to help with the language barrier with him or Mark Henry or, you know, guys like that. So that's where that came into play. And then Jay, I think you did the second punkin dojo, right?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah, no, I think I was like, in the. In the. I think the. The third or fourth one. It was funny because Adam. And Adam was. Was under a developmental contract. I was not. And they had asked him to come to the pay per view. Actually, it was the. It was the whole. The Montreal pay per view with. With. With Brett and Sean and you. They wanted you to come to. To the next set of TVs and do some dark matches and things like that. And you didn't have a car at the time, so I borrowed my mom's car and. Wrestler rule, you never leave the house without your gear, brother. So I threw my. I threw my bag. I threw my bag in the trunk. And the TVs were in Ottawa. And then the next day they were in Cornwall, Ontario, because that was at the time when they did a live raw and then a tape draw the next night. So in Cornwall. And I'm standing there and somebody walks up to me and says, hey, did you bring your gear? And I said, of course. They said, oh, would you mind working with Adam in the, you know, in the dark match? I was like, well, he's kind of the shits, but, yeah, I guess I can get something out of him and

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I'll make him look good.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

So we went out there, and it was funny story too, because, like, you know, wrestling in, like, these indie shows, and that building was small, right? Like, I mean, it probably held 4,500 people. Maybe 5,000 if you're lucky. And I remember coming out like, oh, my God, this building is so big. Oh, my God. And then. And then, years later, you know, you go back and walk in like, why are we. Why are we in this building?

[Steve Austin]

So small territories down.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I remember.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Remember, too, like, having this moment where it brings you back down to earth. It's like, okay, I'm wrestling my best friend from the sixth grade on. This is all we've ever dreamed of. We're wrestling with wwf. We're doing some cool stuff. And then they start testing the lights. Oh, okay. Yeah. That's why they call it a dark match.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah. And then it was like. And then, you know, the. You know, the ref had to finish. And the funny thing was, is that, you know, we had to be, like, cognizant at the time of. Because, you know, they're testing lights, and they're about to go, you know, start the show. So, like, they're like, look, you know, we could tell you to go at any time, you know, and we thinking we're. We're, like, so seasoned that, you know, the ref say, okay, you guys gotta go. You gotta go now. So we decided to. Instead of just going to the finish that we had planned, we decided, well, you know, let's just do this cool little finish. And the ref didn't know it was the finish. So he was set up after. He was like, look, you can't just do that here, you know? So we were like, it was Earl.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It was Earl Hebner.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah, it was Earl Hubner. Yeah. So we came back, and I remember, because of all the stuff that had gone on, it was obviously a busy week with all the stuff that had gone on backstage and those sorts of things. But Jim Cornette watched the match, and he said, God damn, guys, that was great. That was a great match.

[Steve Austin]

And then that was the worst Jim

Cornette impression I've ever heard.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Let me try it again.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Goddamn.

[Steve Austin]

There you go.

That's a good marriage.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

God damn.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

God damn, guys. I was great.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I can't do it.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I was better. I was better.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

So I just happened to ask. I ran into him again before I left, and I asked him for his phone number. And then I was like, you know, do you mind if I just drop you a line every now and again? He's like, yeah, please keep in touch. So every month or so, I would just call Jim and just. Just tell him, hey, you know, just. I just want to let you know where I am, where I'm working, what I'm doing, and this is what I've been up to.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

This is where I'm working, this, who

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I'm working with, and, you know, I'm keeping busy. So I would always, just once a month, I would call him and just let him just stay on the radar, you know. And just out of the blue one night I was at that time I used to go to the gym, and it was about a half hour from my house, still living at home with my parents, obviously before cell phones. And I wasn't cool enough or have enough money to have a pager. So I had to get my messages written down for me on a piece of paper and they'd be on the kitchen table when I came home. So I came home late from the gym, like 11:30, 12 one night, and there was a message on my kitchen table, said, jim Cornette called. Call him back. Doesn't matter what time, I call back. And it goes to his voicemail. So now I'm start leaving this message and all of a sudden, you know, he picks up his God damn kid, where were you? I was trying to call you and I said, oh, I said, jim, I said, I was at the gym, I was working out. He goes, oh, okay, that's all right then. And then he started telling me, hey, we're doing these. You've been aware that we're doing these, these, these training camps down at the office. And, you know, he said, I remember the dark match that you had, and you've been calling me and telling me everything you're up to, and I just, I think that you do really well with them and I believe in you and I think that, I think you do good. So I'm not sure when it's going to be, but I'm going to do my best to get you on one. So that was all the motivation I needed right there. I just like, just was like balls of the wall. They're just getting booked and just getting much ring time, trying to be in the gym as much as I could. And sure enough, two, three months later, he called me up again.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

God damn, Ken.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I got you on one of these camps. And that was that. And then I went down. And there was a funny story too, because, you know, I got a call saying, okay, this is. We're gonna bring you in. And you know, we're gonna bring you in on a Sunday, sorry, on a Saturday, and you'll start the camp went from Sunday to Sunday. It was funny because I had this booking in Delaware and I used to work for this promotion, a guy named Jim Kettner in Ecwa, and he treated me really well. And at the time, it was like my biggest pay. My biggest payday. I was getting paid 150 bucks. And he flew me down to Philadelphia from Buffalo, New York, which is 90 miles from where we lived in Canada. So I would drive to Buffalo, and then I would fly down to Philly and then drive the 20 minutes, wherever it was, to Delaware to do these shows. And I was like, a main guy on his show. And when they wanted to fly me down for this camp, it was on the day of one of his big shows. So they call me, they start giving me all my travel info, and I was like. I said, I have a bit of an issue. And they're like, what's the issue? And I said, well, this promoter, Jim Kettner that I work for, he treats me really well, and I'm one of the main guys on the show, and he advertises me and stuff like that. And I just. I don't want to screw him over, like, last second and hurt his show. I'm not sure what to do here. And they said, well, hold on, we'll call you back. And they hang up. And I'm like, oh, my God. I think they're just gonna be like, well, if something else is more important than wwe, then forget it, you know? Like, now I'm like, oh, man. Maybe I should just said screw it and just not told them. Like, it was like a million things running through your head, right? Oh, man, I just screwed my chance up. And then, like, 10, 15 minutes later, I got a call back and said, look, guess what we're gonna do. First of all, Vince McMahon appreciates, but, like, to keep their commitments, they said, what we're gonna do is we're still gonna fly you on the flight we have provided for you. We're gonna get a car for you. The car is going to take you to your show. You'll do your show, jump back in the car, and I'll bring you back to the hotel and start the camp the next day. So that's what I did. I flew down and they drove me down to Delaware, and I pulled an abdominal muscle in the match. Lucky for me, I went back. And I was in pain the entire week. But it was pretty cool because there was 12 guys there. And, yeah, Bruce Prichard and Dorie Funk and Junior pulled me aside, like, on the Friday, and they stayed. They had offered me a developmental contract, so that was a pretty big week for me.

[Steve Austin]

And I appreciate the backstory. And also just to point out, you know, you went out of your way or you took it upon yourself to give Jim Cornette a call. And of course Jim Cornette is one of my favorite managers of all time, one of the greatest talkers in the history of the business. But you're making a relationship with a guy who knows a lot about the business, had a great run himself and is connected. And then also just like Vince told you through someone else, they like people that honor their commitments. You weren't going to screw the promoter. So again, I got to give props to you there. And you talked briefly about Dori and just, just from watching you guys over the year, both outstanding workers, athletic style, you know, fast moving stuff with respect to your body types, you know, both about 616 4, on the leaner side, working pro style, very athletic. What did you take away from Dorie Funk Jr. Because my point is back in the day, you know, when I first started watching wrestling, you know, I was a big Ric Flair guy, Loved Dusty and then Dory would come on and sometimes Dory's matches could kind of grind down. He was so scientific and at that stage of my career I really couldn't appreciate what he was doing. It wasn't until I'd been in the business for a couple of years that I could see in my opinion, the genius of what Dory Funk Jr. Was doing. Just his wrestling, how good it looked, how snug he was, how deliberate he was. I just, I was the biggest Dory Funk Jr. Fan in the world. So with respect to Yalls fast moving style, what were y' all able to take away from Dory Funk Jr. That would impact or help your career?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It's interesting, you know, because at first it was before I got to wwe. I didn't, I wasn't, I was never really a high flyer or anything like that. I was really.

[Steve Austin]

No, I'm not, I'm not calling you a high flyer. I'm just, you know, a fast moving athletic guy.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Well, yeah, but, but even still, like I, I didn't initially do a whole lot. I really tried to, to keep was just, you know, we, we trained in a ring where you couldn't go off the top rope because the ceiling was too low and it was a boxing ring. So that stuff didn't really get onto my radar until we started working the Hardee's and it was like, okay, now we, we can do this stuff. I guess we just haven't really had an opportunity, opportunity before. So Dory was just kind of another, another layer of foundation, you know, because with Ron and Tsiki, they really taught us that. That, like, the biggest thing they taught us was a drop kick. But we had to.

[Steve Austin]

Y' all were grounded in psychology and just being ground based.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, yeah, we had to drill hammer lock to headlock, back to headlock. You know, we were just switching holds and wrestling for like a year before they even contemplating, contemplated letting us have a match or think about a, you know, a sunset flip or anything like that. From there, it was just get out on shows, and then you'd try stuff on a show. So it'd be like a cross body off the top was kind of like a big thing. And then little by little, it just like add layers here and there. After that, the next kind of, I guess, schooling that I had was out at Breath Place at a Bret Hart's place because he was down with a knee scope and he was champion at the time. And it was Carl DeMarco said, you should go out and see Brett. So I went out there and I worked a little bit with him, and he said, okay, well, we got to get everybody looking at you because you're ready. Then I went out, did some more tours, went out again. This time Jay came with me. And then we both went out there, kind of sat under Brett's learning tree for a little bit. And then from there, it was the Funkin Dojos with Dory. So we really got super lucky with the brains that we were able to pick and, like, just listen to. And then beyond that, we were wrestling guys like Rick Martel and Bad News Brown and these seasoned guys that for whatever reason, just saw these two young kids that were willing to listen and not just do the, you know, can you give me some advice and then just do something? The opposite. We actually would sit and listen to what these guys had to say and then try and implement it and not just let it roll off our backs like we knew better or something, you know.

[Steve Austin]

But let me jump in here, because, Jay, a while ago, you said when you guys wrestled each other, it was right after the screw job, correct?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Okay. And so now, you know, Adam, you know, Brett has called you down to the house. This is before the screw job, correct?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Okay. So, you know, obviously, you know, Brett handpicked me. I think it was 95 or 96 for his comeback match in Madison Square Garden. And I flew down to Calgary and we talked a little bit and visited.

And of course, you know, Brett was

always a big influence on me and a guy that I just absolutely have the Highest respect for just him as a person and what he can do in the ring and our trust level and respect level for each other. Just to talk about the screw job for a second from you guys kind of just being on the outside, what were yalls thoughts of what had just happened in this company that I guess Adam, you're a part of and Jay, you're affection to be a part of, or what were y' all thinking at the time when all this shit went down? Because it was heavy duty.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Well, the thing is, we decided that we wanted to watch this match in the crowd, and we had been backstage the entire day, so we kind of found this little side. It was in Montreal, right? So they had these, like, from the

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

locker rooms there, you could walk out into the.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Through these. These doors, and you could stand in kind of an aisle way off the floor a little bit, but you had

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

a straight shot to the rings.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

So we walked down one of those and watched it out in the crowd, so to speak. I remember when the finish happened, we didn't really. It didn't really register at the time. I just looked at Adam and I said, that was kind of strange, wasn't it? That was a weird finish. He's like. And then we walk in, and all of a sudden we just see people rushing around and running around, a bunch of commotion. And we didn't really know what we, like, we didn't understand. We couldn't grasp it, like, what. What had just gone down.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

We.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

We didn't know until actually, like, the next day really what had happened.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, it was. It was a strange time, man. I just remember again, DeMarco came up to me and said, yeah, you should go. I went, yep, okay, I'll go.

[Steve Austin]

And we.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

We grabbed our bags and we left. And then, yeah, the next day, I think was. Was Ottawa. And that's where, you know, we were the last to get that kind of word. Because I'm on a developmental. It's not like I really know anybody yet. But word got around, and I just remember thinking, whoa, okay, this is a game changer. And Brett helped me get here. So how does that all fall out now? You know, Is it just, you know, because I'm looked at as a Brett guy. Am I going to be gone too? Is Owen gonna be gone? How does this shake out? I remember talking to Brett, and Brett said, you. You do what you got to do. Don't. Don't worry. He goes, worst case scenario, I can put in a word with you in wcw, but I'd always wanted to get to wwf. And I felt like that was the place where I was going to get a shot and be able to show, you know, because WCW at that point, you know, what it was like. I mean, you were there. It was just not the place for me. I didn't think. I thought with wwf, man, it was young and it was hip and it was vibrant and it just felt like things were taken off and you were taking off and, you know, there's Shawn and just. It just felt like the place that I wanted to be. But it was a weird, weird time for sure, man.

[Steve Austin]

It was weird because, man, Davey boy was going crazy, Owen was going crazy. I mean, that whole backstage thing and I didn't. I was around, but I wasn't catching all of it. And then there was a famous thing where, you know, Vince was going to walk into the dressing room and, you know, at least say something, something to Brett. Give him a shot. I think Brett took the shot. It was just weird because coming out of that, I was like, man, what is going to happen to this company? You know, Brett was our world champion. You know, again, I'm a huge Sean fan, but Brett was the guy at that time. And so I was thinking, man, this company's going downhill. You can't fire your world champion. Because it was still like a shoot. I mean, we've all known us at work, but at that level, it's a shoot. And I just. I didn't know what was going to happen otherwise. I thought the territory was going to go down.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, I remember thinking that too, you know, because, hey, you just. That just happened to the flagship guy. So how does a locker room have any trust now? If you're going to do that to Bret Hart, how can that not happen? The chance of that happening to everybody else? Obviously there's more that goes into it. There's different sides of stories and all of those things. But I remember thinking that, like, okay, this is where I want to be, but this might be a weird place to be for a long time if there's still a place to be.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Steve Austin]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Steve Austin]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Pluto TV stream now pay. Never. This is the Steve Austin Show I

[Steve Austin]

want to talk to you guys about. And obviously you, you spoke of some

of the wear and tear on your bodies. And man, this past, for the last day, I've been watching ladder matches, table ladder chair matches, you know, with you guys, the Dudleys, Matt and Jeff Hardy. And you know, when I'm kind of doing a little bit of research or just reading about ladder matches, I guess, you know, across the world or in England or in the United States, there were a few ladder matches in the 1970s. It wasn't like the WWF invented them. Brett and Sean had actually had one on a challenge show, I guess, pre 94, but the Sean Razor match from 1994, that match, but that type of match on the map, it was just an outstanding match. Great psychology. And it was the building block for ladder matches to come. So my question is to you, I guess in all of my notes right here, I don't have the date in which you all had your first ladder match or tables and ladders chairs match. What were your thoughts when someone said, hey man, you guys are in this match?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

It was actually our pitch, really. This was the first thing that we had ever pitched storyline wise. And it was just, it was strictly a thing to get noticed. You know, we were kind of floating between being on Raw and being on Heat or, you know, whatever the kind of secondary shows were. Sometimes we show up, we'd be on Heat, sometimes we on Raw or. But we're just kind of, you know, trying to get our footing. And we just were all, you know, like you just mentioned the Razor Sean match and that was like the measuring stick for us. Like that was a match that kind of changed things for all of us in a sense. And we just were all talking and we were working a lot on the live events and we're just like, you know, just kind of spitballing, like, how can we take this to another level? Like, how can we really stand out here? And, you know, it wasn't going to happen, you know, any other way because I mean, the card was stacked. I mean, you had you in your prime. The Rock in his prime, taker, you know, Triple H, Mick Foley, like all these huge stars like at once, you know, we know we weren't getting anywhere near the top of the card as singles guys. So, like, how do you stand out? How do you get a spot every week on the show that's, that's a highlighted slot in a good position and how do you get on every pay per view and how do you become an important cog in the wheel that needs to be there or else it doesn't run as smoothly, you know. And so we kind of just were throwing different things around and we kind of had said, what if we do a best of seven match and every match is a different stipulation, and then it ends with the first ever tag team ladder match. And when we pitched it, we obviously said, you know, there needs to be something hanging above the ring. And we don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves because none of the. Neither of our teams had been tag champs or even close to it. I think at that point they said, you know, but I mean, maybe there needs to be a title or something there, but something needs to be hanging visually for us to grab, to win. And that's when they kind of came up with the idea of doing the Terry Invitational Tournament where the winner got a hundred thousand dollars in Terry Runnels managerial services. So it was kind of like this, this tournament thing that she had put on with this best of seven. And that's kind of how it came about. And we just knew that this was kind of going to be hopefully our springboard into becoming. And I think Matt Hardy said at one point took us from being WWE wrestlers to WWE Superstars, you know, and that was what we were trying to do.

[Steve Austin]

So what was the thought process, just as far as creating that first one

to, you know, going on to the. Really. The three that I focused on was the one in, I guess it was TLC 1, which is SummerSlam. TLC 2, which had been what I'm in WrestleMania 16 or 17?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

17.

[Steve Austin]

17. And WrestleMania 16 and 17. According to Pro Wrestling Illustrated, those table letters, chairs matches with yourselves, Hardee's and Bubba Ray and D. Von were matches of the year. And dude, I'll never forget, I was rewatching a little bit of WrestleMania 17 just last night, getting ready to talk to you guys, and went ahead and watched that ladder match. And that was. Jesus Christ, that thing was unbelievable. It was just super exciting. And I was thinking, you know, because at the building, I didn't watch the match. I've seen the match, you know, probably two, three times on YouTube or WWE Network. But then I watched it again last night and it was just like off the chart timing, danger, thrills, chills, spills. I mean, you know, you both took some. Everybody took incredible bumps. And to think, you know, after that, you know, Triple H goes out there to work with Undertaker and they have a really good match. And I remember, if you guys remember in the arena before that show started. You know, Motorhead was going to play Triple H's entrance song, and they were out there doing a rehearsal and holy smokes, man. You know, I've always been a Motorhead fan, but that speed metal, they weren't real bassy with Triple H's song. It was bass heavy and it was Lemmy. And boy, they struck up that chord at rehearsal. I was like, chills went down my spine. And so that night at the show, this is after Yalls match, man, all of a sudden, Motorhead starts and Lemmy says, we're Motorhead and we're going to kick your ass. And, boy, they just launch into that version of Triple H's song. And, man, he starts singing. He had that microphone cranked up real high, had his neck craned back, and they Sang for about 45 seconds, maybe a minute. Finally, here comes Triple H and he does his entrance and he comes down and, boy, if you look at Lemmy while they're playing and those guys play for four or five minutes and Lemmy's just grooving, I'm sure he's probably high as a kite, but it was just awesome. I was watching how great the entrance was and. And I think when I look back, I think that was probably my favorite entrance anybody has ever made in the history of the business. And now Triple H is kind of famous for his big entrances at WrestleManias, but that one right there in 17, just because of how awesome Raw and badass Motorhead was, and he was on a real streak at the time, was incredible. And so anyway, they would have that match, and of course the Rock and I were the main event. There were 65,000 people there. After watching, watching you guys totally destroy the place, the ring, everybody in that damn match, you know, I'd forgotten what a. What a huge task it was to try to follow the match that you guys had.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I think WrestleMania 17, everything's subjective, right? But to me, that's the best card and the best pay per view ever. And just because of the totality of it, from from opening match to last match, everything delivered and everybody got off.

[Steve Austin]

I mean, because sometimes things don't click, dude, everybody that went out that night clicked.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah. And that can be so rare, you know, and, you know, our mentality when, you know, when we did the first ladder match with the Hardys, our mentality was always, we don't want anybody to be able to follow this. You know, we know that we. We don't have the promo abilities yet of the guys on top. We don't get those reactions yet. But we want to get there. And what we can do to do that is now start taking these risks that honestly, you know, like I said, Jay and I didn't really take up until that point. We decided, hey, if we want to get noticed in this land of these industry giants, that when you look back now, probably the most stacked roster of all time. How do you stand out in that? Like, how. Okay, well, we'll pitch a ladder match and we'll do the first tag team ladder match. So we got carte blanche. It's an empty canvas, so we can paint whatever we want on this. And you know, sometimes first evers like the kennel from hell match or something are not good. But with a tag team ladder match, we knew it could be good. So we really just did whatever we could think of for that match. And then the Dudleys came over and the Dudleys added an aspect that Edge and Christian and the Hardys didn't have. They added that kind of that, that badass. I've always said if you listen to the reactions of our, of our matches, you know, Jay and I would come out and get food. Great, wear the heels. The Hardys would get that Rock and roll express dude@17.

[Steve Austin]

They blew the roof off. Go ahead.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And then the Dudleys would get that guttural guy from Philly Pop, you know what I mean? And that mixture of those three is exactly what was needed to make those matches work. I, we, we caught lightning in a bottle. And our goal, all six of us. And then when you add in Spike and Lita and Rhino, it was just our goal was to go out and go, okay, if somebody's gonna follow us, they are gonna have to really kick ass tonight. Yeah, I think that that was the whole roster's mentality then.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

You know, it was funny too, Steve, because like on the first, with the first ladder match that we did against the Hardys, we were told to have three finishes and one was us winning, one was. Was them winning, and one was me kind of turning on edge and costing us the match. So they just put the Hardys won. And then there was some rumblings of at that early on of us maybe even splitting up and doing something, which made me pretty nervous because, you know, I was still trying to find my footing and find out what I was character wise. I didn't really have a character. So, you know, promo time, all those things. I was like, man. And I remember being on an overs memories. Do those. The Europe only pay per views back around that time. So we used to go over on the charter planes, right? And you and I were standing having a. Enjoying a glass of red wine somewhere in the plane. And you kind of just said to me, just turned and just frankly said to me, hey, what are these rumblings I hear about them maybe breaking you guys up? And I said, I don't know. I said, that's just. I've been hearing the same thing goes. And you said, you got to put stop to that. Well, I mean, I never really had those conversations before with anybody, so I don't know how to do it kind of thing. And you're like, listen, you guys are the team, you know, you guys are the top team and you're going to be factored in. You're going to be everything that kind of we want like that. I was just saying, you know, we. We had a spotlight. We were the main team. And right out of your mouth you said, look at the top of the card singles, guys. You aren't going to get there. You, you'll get there eventually one day, but it's not going to be anytime soon. You need to ride this out as long as you can because it's working and it's good. And whatever you got to do, stop it from. You got to stop it. And that's kind of when we had kind of started spitballing about turning from these kind of this double baby face thing we've been doing with the Hardys too. And then there was luckily Brian Goertz, who was our age and was a young writer and was trying to find his way, and another guy named Tommy Blacha. You know, we had been kind of talking with those guys and maybe exploring, like, hey, what if we turned heel here and actually started to talk and have some personality? And then that changed everything for us. They. Once we got on commentary for one match, we started doing it with a heel edge, no pun intended. But we started like just having a little bit more attitude. We did this thing backstage where we did a, like a sit down interview with the Hardys that the coach was. Was kind of interviewing both of us. And the writer said, just say whatever you want and if you swear, we'll bleep it out. Just give us something real. So we went out there and we were dropping F bombs and we were just like mother. Like, just everything you could think of. And like, they're like, if you watch back, it's like we're just like, like, we rip our microphones off and we get up and we walked out just like impromptu. We Walked out and that kind of. From that, like, whoa, hold on a second here. There's a different dynamic these guys that we haven't explored yet. Maybe they're not done as a team. And that was when it kind of started to roll in a different direction.

[Steve Austin]

One thing that stands out, like, you

guys knew that you needed to do something to stand out from the crowd. I mean, you look at the roster was a stacked roster. And like I told you on that airplane, and I'm glad you reminded me of that conversation, that was straight up. There was nowhere to go. I've told this story many times, but just to spread the 411 or put a bug in someone's ear. I remember having a conversation with Vince when they were editing my lines on the Raws that weren't live. And I knew I needed to separate myself from everybody. And I knew exactly like I told Vince, walking across the parking lot into Lowell or Worst or Mass, wherever it was. I said, hey, Vince, I said, you got a second? And what's your pal? And I said, hey, man, I noticed when you guys are, you know, I'm watching Monday Night Raw, you guys are editing out a lot of things. I say, I just want to know why that is. And I was supposed to be a heel at the time. He goes, well, quite frankly, Steve, you're popping all the guys in the truck. You guys know if you're popping everybody in the truck, you can pop the world. So I told him similar to what you guys did. I just said, hey, man, I said, I'm 61250, bald head, goatee, black trunks, black boots. I said, vince, if you take my personality from me, I can't compete. But if you give me my personality, I can compete with anything you got. That was my M.O. of doing exactly kind of what you guys did, you know, with the ladder matches and all that other stuff. And now taking another risk here with being, you know, a little overboard on the mic to go back to the ladder match or the TLC match or however you guys want to go about this process. Well, let's talk about 17 specifically, because that was so lights out. And Lita, like you said, Rhino, Lita, Spike, the bumps that all of y' all took. And Lita was so cool back in the day. I mean, when she come down and she kind of had that high G string thong thing on in her pants and she had that cool factor. She was like punk cool, sexy. Of course, she was badass. She was a great worker. Spike comes down, hits both of you guys with his fence, Jay, you took a couple. Well, you got both. Took some crazy bumps, safe bumps, but that whatever is finished is called off the apron, through that table. And then, you know, here comes Rhino. And then who's he? Was that Jay, was that you on his shoulders to get that belt?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah, yeah, he put me on the shoulders. And it was. Funny story because, like, when we were, you know, we were at the building the night before, just going over, just tying up some loose ends, you know, and just kind of, you know, because it's different when you're in that. It sounds strange, but it's true. When you're in that big of a space, it's. Sometimes timing can be an issue.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Oh.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And. And so we're just trying to get some timing down on some certain things. And we're all laying there, like, kind of talking about it after everyone's. Everyone's kind of sitting there and said, hold on a second, Jay, you don't have any offense in this match. We need to. We need to rethink some stuff. I was like, hell, no. I was like, I don't want any. I said, rhino's carrying me up at the end. I've gotten the titles. That's all the heat I need.

[Steve Austin]

But that's a great thought. But put me in a room with you guys when you're trying to lay this thing out, because literally, I mean, just watching the match, if there's any calls, it's all protected and you guys have set this thing up, but it's not like you're getting any run throughs, man, this was 17. You know, it's a whole lot different than what's going on. So when obviously you've had experience, you've worked with these guys a couple of times, there's got to be a super high level of trust. And look like you guys are just. Everything's being laid in, but you're taking care of each other. And there's a high level of trust when you got six guys and then you have these three other components coming in to contribute to. This match was totally off the charts, how you guys go about setting this thing up. You do this, I'm going to do that. And just how the process goes, because there's down periods, after big bumps, action periods, different guys trying to ascend up, get those belts. I've never had a match like that. I had a ladder match with Vincent Chan one time. It was Zederez shits. As soon as they told me we're gonna have a ladder match, I'm thinking like step ladders, right. Because, you know, I didn't need to be off the ground. So, you know, I've never been involved in anything like this. So you take me through that process and who commands?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

We realized if it was going to have any lasting power and if people were going to stay engaged and wanted to see these matches, we couldn't just let them be car crashes, which maybe a couple of the early ones were. They were just kind of everything, really. You know, it sounds weird, but we were trying to get some psychology in these matches. Like a reason to actually do certain things, not just like, well, why is he setting up a chair here?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

When the.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

When the, you know, when everybody's over there, like, you know, trying to make everything logical, why you're doing certain things.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And that was the challenge.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

So a lot of times, and, you know, you have, you know, six guys in there with all that have ideas and are creative guys and feel strongly their opinions are the right ones. So there were times where, you know, we'd be in arguments about stuff, and it wasn't coming from a place of anybody being mad at each other. It was a place of passion where we all cared so much about this that we were willing to. To argue our points. And then at the end of it, we'd figure it out how to make it everybody's ideas work. And then we'd go out there and like you said, no matter where we were at back there, we had 100% trust in each other. And, you know, that's also a lifelong bond that we're all going to have together too, I think.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah. I mean, there were times when we butt heads, but it was always to try and get what was what we all thought was going to be best. And that can be tough with six people to try and get this, okay, unanimous thing. It wasn't going to be that way. And the chemistry of the teams, the way it kind of worked is Matt would be the talking guy for the Hardys and mostly the idea guys, and it was Bubba for the Dudleys. For us, it was both Jay and I, where we would both come to the table with a lot of ideas and a lot of, you know, and Jeff and D. Von just aren't wired that way, and that was fine. Jeff would come up with a massive idea and then we would go, okay, how can we work this in? How can we have this? Try and make some semblance of sense? And then we also had Michael Hayes as our agent, and he's a huge part of it, too. And because we would all just sit down and just throw these ideas at the wall and see what stuck or resonated with the majority of us anyway, and then try and appease everybody and make it work. But like Jay said, try to have things make sense. But at the same time, I wanted those things to look like a tornado had been through a trailer park. After, like, me, the best visual is after WrestleMania 17. Just take a look at the ring, take a look at the bodies everywhere. Take a look at the ladders that are broken, the tables destroyed. All right, Mission accomplished. That's what it needs to look like after this match. And I've said it repeatedly, I think we all went too far. We really did. But that it was our mentality of just trying to get noticed. And then once we went far, then we had to one up ourselves because then it was like, well, now we're going to do TLC 2. And now we're, you know, and it's like, okay, now what do we do? How do we cop this?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And I'll tell you this too, Steve. Like, the real challenge is not even so much the ladder match match stuff, but it's you also. There's a real fine line of being labeled just guys that do gimmick matches that, that when you go out to do like a, a proper match and you want to put some time in and you're trying to tell a story and take people on the ride where it's like, well, he's not going through a table or he's not getting hit with a chair, he's not falling off a ladder. I'm not really interested. You know, it's like there's a fine line there where you have to be able to separate that, that, hey, these guys can go when they're not falling off stuff. So that was a challenge as well.

[Steve Austin]

Oh, dude, you're 100% correct. Because, I mean, you can book yourself into a corner. But then, you know, like you said once you guys say, hey, man, let's keep this thing together, you started coming up with kind of the heel swing and the attitude. As we were right on the back end of that era, you became more character based rather than, hey, man, there's a lot of guys, you go out there or not a lot of guys, but some guys that do get labeled as, hey, man, if this guy's got to work, a straight match is not going to be so good because he's a gimmick match guy.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, yeah. And that was one of the things we knew with our Promo work and our character work and just our, you know, the five second poses and things like that. It's like, okay, this is what can now make us different. Those matches proved that we can do all that stuff. So if you put us in any situation, whether it's just a straight up tag team match, which was our personal favorite, is just, you know, give us 20 minutes with a great tag team and let us do what a tag team match can do if it's done right. But if you need a TLC match, okay, we can do that too. We wanted to be like that multi tooled team, you know, that you could put into any situation. You know, we worked the Rock and Undertaker and for the titles and then we'd do a TLC match and then we'd work the APA and then we'd work too. Cool. And then we just wanted to be that team that you could plug into any situation and we could get what you needed done for you.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I was gonna say backing up to when you were talking about what I. What I learned from Dory, and there was something there. Like when I was in his class, there was kind of a thread with me and him that whenever he wanted to demonstrate something, he would pull me aside and demonstrate something for the class. Whenever there was something that he wanted done with, you know, a certain, like, different. Because there was all different size of guys and there was monsters in there. There was guys that were, you know, there was guys that were smaller than me, there were guys that were my size. The majority of the time he was asking me to do a short match with this person or do a spot or do something like that. So in my head I was like, well, there's a reason for this. And one of the things I learned was at our size, I might not necessarily be great at one thing, but I need to be good at everything. And that was kind of what I took away from him. And that's with the tools that I use going forward that at my size, I really had to be able to adapt to any style that I was in the ring with.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And that was.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

That was what I took away from

[Steve Austin]

him in that match. It looked I might be getting. It might have been the match, it might have been the year before. When Bubba Ray put the ladder over his head, started spinning it in there for Buddy, it looked like he took a pretty good shot there. Jay, did you get dinged on that?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

No, I didn't actually. No. I just got my hands up last second and took a little snap bump, so. And luckily Too, with the long hair, you know, you could kind of, you know, you get away with a lot more with the long hair, right? You just throw the hair back, and it gave the illusion that you know something. And the big thing is, too, is sound, right? Like, sometimes if something is hitting something, like a chair or a ladder when you got bumped them, if it rattles or makes a noise that that will resonate not only to the front row, to the middle of the arena, but to the top of the arena, and that people react to that. So, you know, I think that too, with the sound of the smack and

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

the hair whipping back, I think it

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

just, you know, always made for really cool moments.

[Steve Austin]

Adam, did you come out of those things unscathed with regards to your neck? Because, I mean, both you took some crazy bumps, and Jay, you missed or I guess was intentional on that triple letter spot in the middle. But Adam, did you come out of these things okay, or did they contribute to, you know, your neck issues?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I mean, at the time, I thought I did, but if I really trace it back, I think that has to be where it started, you know, whether it was the way I bumped, I bumped a little bit higher up. So now you're bumping a little bit higher up, but you're doing it off ladders. I don't know. It's tough to fully pinpoint because at the time, you know, your hands would be bruised, your elbows would be bruised, you know, your hand, your joints would be sore just from taking the ladders and the chairs and the tables. But it was just stuff like that. And I watched them back, and I'm like, how did one of us not die with some of the stuff that we were able to pull off? Because the margin for error, man, it was hair thin. And the fact that we all came out of it without something happening that night during a spot, it's still kind of incomprehensible to me, to be honest. What happened was, though, is you see throughout the years that those definitely, you know, put some notches on our belts in terms of injuries, because by the time I was starting to really get into my groove as a singles, things were starting to crop up now. And I think it started with those matches.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

You know, it's funny, you said in that 17 match, you know, there was a spot where I was getting tipped off the ladder and I was going to go over the rope and land on the floor, and I'd done it before, and it's visually looks pretty crazy, but I would go over the ropes and I Would step over and land on my feet and kind of roll on the floor. So in this particular case, somehow the ladder kicked on me as it was getting tipped, and instead of going over feet first, my feet swung up and I actually went over the ropes kind of back first.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And I remember looking at the ceiling going, oh, my God, this is not going to be good. And I basically flat backed on the floor from off the ladder in the

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

middle of the ring.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And I don't know how I didn't land on a piece of debris on a ladder on something that would have done some serious damage. I happened to land perfectly on a spot that had nothing, and I flat backed it, and it knocked the wind out of me. I couldn't breathe. But I was laying there. I'm like, move my arm a little bit. Okay, I can move my arm. Okay. I can move my legs. Oh, my God. I'm all right. How did that happen? And so I get my breath back and I come to the back, and Kane is walking past me, and he stops. He's like, are you okay? From what? He's like, are you okay? And I said, yeah, I'm fine. And he grabs me by the shoulder, spins me, pushes me up against the wall. He goes, you scared the shit out of me. Don't ever do that again. And he walked away. I almost got more hurt from Kane than I did for the bum.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I think back to, like,

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

there were

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

little things that would, like, I remember I was lying on a table and I think Bubba pillow picked up Jeff and power bombed them through me through the table. But it was a little bit short. And if you watch it back, basically just the back of Jeff's head hits my arms, and I try to reach to try and grab him a little bit, but that. That one knocked him out for a little bit. And I remember that. And that's well before we still got to do the crazy, you know, Hanging spear.

[Steve Austin]

Yes.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

So, you know, you just kind of. We all had trust, and we all, you know, knew that stuff was gonna happen, but you'd all come out in the wash eventually and we'd get through it.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

You know, it's funny, too. You don't realize too, like, with moments like that and like, WrestleMania is about making moments, right? And, like. Or that's. I mean, that's what we do anyway. But. And I know this. This didn't happen at Mania for you, but, you know, you think about the. The beer truck, right? Like, that's a moment. That's this replayed and replayed and it's iconic, right? And the same thing with that spear spot. We didn't realize at the time when we're setting it up. And if I did, I would have volunteered to be the one doing the spot if I known that it was going to be so iconic.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

But

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

it's one that's in any video package, you know, hyping WrestleMania or WWE. You see that, that spot where Adam spears Jeff Hardy off the ladder. He's dangling from the ring in the middle, trying to grab the titles and. And Adam Edge dives across and spears them off. And you just see people standing up and you see the lights flash and you see the bump that Jeff takes. It's, you know, that's one of those moments. And like, thinking about it now, we didn't know at the time that it was going to be stuff like that, you know, and it's. It's really cool. Like, a lot of times too. Like, I just did like a signing last week in France, and you still have, like, little kids that, you know, weren't even born yet coming up and telling you they love the ladder matches, they love the TLC matches, and their parents are still showing them these things, and that's cool.

[Steve Austin]

I'll never forget we were working highway to Hell match in Madison Square Garden as myself versus Undertaker. I got knocked out early on in the match. I don't remember the rest of the match, but I kept going in the match. And the match was average. But at one point, we'd planned a little spot where I was going to be out on the announce table. Taker was going to go up top and drop a big leg on me. So, you know, we talked about it, and now all of a sudden, I'm laying on the table. I'm looking up, first of all, taker 7ft tall. Then he's on top of the turnbuckle and I'm the target. And I'm thinking, well, I guess we're going to do it after all. All of a sudden, here comes taker. And that's a high risk move, but it's certainly not as high risk as what the totality of this match you guys had at 17. But the point I'm trying to get to. Ed, just take me through where you were. Because there's a lot of timing going on there. It's not like you guys got a chance to practice this. Jeff's hanging. Who's that? Bubba? Was that Devon? I think it was.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

That was Bubba that was pulling him back.

[Steve Austin]

Okay. Bubba was pulling back with the Chair. And, you know, he had to get the proper release with his feet. And then there you are on the ladder. Take me through that just as far as. What the f. Here I go.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, that was really it. What I was really trying to pay attention to was what rung I needed to jump from for the trajectory to work. And, like, okay, if I'm third rung down, that should, in a perfect world, have us making contact right at the moment where I'm picturing it, at least in my head now, if you watch back, though, I almost committed too soon. There's just a short little, like, whoop. And I held, and the ladder didn't tip, thankfully. And like a nanosecond later, I went. And if I had gone on that first initial instinct, it would have been horribly. You would have went wrong.

[Steve Austin]

Well, the thing about it was, because if you'd over. If you would have over rotated, you're going to plant him on the back of his head right in the middle of the ring, or if you under rotate, you're going to plant him on his lower back or sack, and that's going to jack him up because of the whip and the blow to the lower back. I mean, so, dude, the fact that he landed completely flat, I mean, that was about as perfect of a landing as you could have hoped for or stuck.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Well, and that goes back to the trust. You know, Jeff is just one of those guys who is very giving in there, and he will bump his ass off and sell his ass off to make people look good. So I knew if I could hit this properly and protect him, he was gonna make this thing look like a trillion dollars because he trusted me, and I didn't want to. You know, you never want to hurt anybody, but especially with something like that where it could go so horribly wrong. I was like, this has to. I have to hit this perfect. And I didn't even realize in watching it back, like, when I hit him, I grab onto him and I hold him and release them right before we hit the mat. And that's just one of those things you don't think about doing. Your instincts in there just naturally do it. And, yeah, we. We made it through and, you know, but that. That initial instinct to jump almost, really, it wouldn't have been replayed right before that.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Wasn't that when Jeff and D Bomb were up there fighting like.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And then.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Then Debunk got knocked off. Was it that one?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

No, that was at Stockland.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Okay.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

That was a summer slam. And this is when Jeff tried to do the Frogger, as we jump from ladder to ladder to get to the belts. Yeah. And then from there, you know, and it didn't work. But, yeah, it was okay that it didn't work. It almost made it better because it

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

made it look real.

[Steve Austin]

Just. Just scaling back up it. When you guys look back at all those matches, what one was your personal favorites?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Oh, man, I'm.

[Steve Austin]

Dude, the 17 was.

To me, the ones I watched, it was just spectacular. I just don't know any top Hat.

That's.

For me, looking from an outsider standpoint,

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I think 17 was my favorite because of the stage that it was on and also because the SummerSlam won. TLC won. And then there was the triple ladder match at WrestleMania 16. To me, TLC1 was just so much in so little time. We didn't give anybody a chance to breathe. And that was by design, but it was, I don't know, mania.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Just.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It still felt like people, you know, there was always action going on, but it was just able to be digested better. And I think because it's the one that has packages played from it or spots played from it in WrestleMania packages, that, to me, is the one that stands out.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

I think, for me. I mean, I think the same thing. The first one with the Hardys kind of holds a special place for me, just because it was our launching pad. Like, I don't know where either of us would have ended up if that match never happened. And if we didn't hit it out of the park on that one, you can bet we wouldn't have got another chance to do it. So there was a lot of pressure on that one. But I think as far as the overall match itself, I would think that the 17 one was. And for another reason is after Kevin Dunn. I had a conversation with him after that match, and he said, you know, realistically, with these type of matches, you think about it and you shouldn't be able to tell a story, but you guys are now telling stories with these matches. And that's a testament to, you know, the talent of everybody involved. And that always kind of held a special place to me that he acknowledged that.

[Steve Austin]

You know, when I watched those matches,

it was interesting because almost I believe

I watched them in chronological order, or I watched. Yeah, I think I did. But what I noticed was, and I believe they all started with a jump start. It just looked in 17 like you guys as you were making your way to the ring, like you had been there and done that. And I thought your work in the previous six months to a year Or a year and a half out, it was still at a very high level. I just thought that everybody looked more comfortable, everybody was ready for the stage, and that was a built show. I mean, that crowd was crazy. But just from just you guys, everybody making their way to the ring, it just looked like everybody had another year, year and a half of seasoning. And to me, that always makes the difference. And a professional presentation, no matter how scientific or how crazy you're trying to get, is pro wrestling.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And I think that was just it. Like, we. By that point, we had. We had some moxie to us, you know, and some swagger to us. Whereas, you know, as much as I love the ladder match with the Hardy, because it did put us all on the map, it was still that, okay, we're four guys here. We're trying to prove something. By WrestleMania 17, we already felt like we proved something, and we knew it. You know, that being said, with that first ladder match, the tagline match with the Hardys, that was the first time they did the camera above the ring. So.

[Steve Austin]

Yep.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And it was really the first moment that as performers, I remember hearing a groundswell of a reaction I'd never heard before. So, I mean, that holds a special place because that's where the wave started. But by WrestleMania 17, man, it felt like Tsunami. It was just. And it felt like we were riding it, too.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

One of those things, too, where, like I said, everybody was on the same page and clicked. It wasn't like. Like, oh, man, Edge and Christian are winning this one again, man. Like, it's bullshit. We should be winning this one. Like, it wasn't like that.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

You know, we were.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

We were at different teams, but we were all a team in a sense, you know, like, it didn't matter. The goal was to go out there and make a match that stood the test of time and to steal the show. And it didn't matter who was winning. It didn't matter, you know, who is taking more bumps or getting more offense. That didn't matter.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

We were. We were out there to do one

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

thing, and that was to put on. Put on the best show we could.

[Steve Austin]

That's the thing. It really. It doesn't matter who would have won the belt. You know, you guys retained or want them. Did you retain or win them?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

I think we retained in the first one or we won in the first in 16, and then we retained at SummerSlam, and then I think we won them again in 17.

[Steve Austin]

Okay, so you want them one of 17, but my point is it really doesn't Matter who won. And at the end, of course it did. But my point is joint going back to exactly what you said, man. As long as, as the whole match is just a badass match and everybody gets some of something, everybody gets over. The crowd, you know, is so involved and so enamored and thrilled by the match that everybody gets over and it's just, it's good for everyone. No one has to be selfish. It was about the belt because you put yourself through all this, you know, carnage and damage to try to get the belt and that's what the belt means to you. But whoever would have wanted it, it still would have been the same match. And it's just a case of, you know, everybody going out there working their ass off and not being selfish or giving a shit who's going to win or having a boo boo face. Oh, I'm dropping the title.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, I think our mentality was, was and all of us was. We all walk away from this stronger than, than when we went in.

[Steve Austin]

Absolutely.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

No matter who, who has what, you know, the Hardys will go on and be, you know, the Baby Face tag team that can work, you and Troy, Triple H and the Dudleys will be the tag team that can go work, you know, Kane and Undertaker, and then eventually Jay and I will split and we'll do our singles thing. And it all stems from, you know, that whole series of matches where, you know, basically where we got noticed.

[Steve Austin]

What were you guys, before we wrap this thing up? And I'd like to come back and talk to you guys again about, you know, your, the, the rest of your run as a tag, you know, getting that five second pose, you know, establishing some of your character traits. And then the split, because, you know, the split, you know, all of a sudden you cruise along in a tag team, you know, all of a sudden you split, you go back into or into a singles role. Because I've been there, done that, you know, complete lack of confidence. And it's almost like you don't know the shit of wind your watch. And you might have been working however many years, but you don't have that safety cushion. You're not on the, you know, you're not at 11 or going, you know, off what the guy has done before you.

So it's a real lesson.

But let me ask you one last thing. Coming back from that match, you guys get together, everybody. You always say thank you after a match, but boy, after something like that, when there could have been so much carnage, it could have been there was such a high Margin for error, and you pull it off spectacularly. A couple things come up short, but I mean, in the scope of things, just a 10 out of 10, what are your feelings? What are people telling you? Did you get a stand up in gorilla? And is there, what's, what's the big hug in the back? Because, dude, when you knock one out of the park, it's in a very high stage, the highest stage of them all, WrestleMania, and you crush it. What were you guys feeling the next day or right after the match?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

It was a weird one, honestly, because of the way the Astrodome was. And as we talked about earlier, sometimes there's a delay. There's not that instantaneous kind of gratification where, you know, okay, that worked because the sound has to go up, hit the roof, and bounce back to you. So while we're out there, we talked about it afterwards. We were like, man, the crowd didn't sound like they were really there. Like we thought they were going to be. And then when we saw, at the after party, we saw the match back on tape and we're like, oh, okay. They were. It was just that delay that kind of at least took us out of it a little bit in terms of, you know, getting that instant reaction, if that makes any sense. But, man, we came back and yeah, it's one of those deals where everybody's. The first thing is, are you guys okay? And the second thing is, you know, God damn.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And it was one of those things too, where, you know, we heard a lot of, man, every time we, you know, that you guys can top it.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

You top it, you know, and

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

it's one of those things too, where, yeah, you know, you get it. It's awesome. And it's satisfying when you get the, your peers, people that you respect, you know, giving you a standing ovation or

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

giving you a pat on the back,

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

telling you did a great job. And. But then we'd always try to go find a little corner just to be up by ourselves, just kind of have a big group hug and just ask each other for, all right, you know, the adrenaline's still pumping. You still can't really feel any, any injuries or anything like that at that point. But we're just always trying to find a little corner for five, 10 minutes and just chill and just hang out and just laugh a little bit, you know? Yeah.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

And just kind of like depressurize a little bit because you know how it is when you have that kind of chemistry in there with someone and you know that you've just Done something that is. Is going to resonate with people for years to come. There's a bond that builds, and you're kind of all in it together. And, you know, it's. It's one of those deals where you. Yeah, we would go off and find a room and go, oh, man. Okay, we just. I think we just did it again. Damn it. And we're okay. And, you know, so there. There was always a lot of that, man. We're doing this. We're. We're. You know, we're doing it. And now I look back, and Dudleys are going to the hall of Fame this year, and, you know, Jay and the Hardee's are gonna go in, and it's like, okay, we did it. That's where it all started.

[Steve Austin]

Before I let you guys go, tell everybody about your podcast and where they can find it.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Birdman, you want to take this?

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Yeah. So it's Enc's pot of awesomeness, and you can find it, you know, wherever you. Wherever you get your pods, Steve. It's on itunes, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, all those good places, you know, and, yeah, it's basically, you know, it's just us kind of busting each other's balls just having the sweet. Some fun and talking like idiots like we normally do. And if you like the kind of stuff, then listen to, you know, give it a listen.

[Steve Austin]

You guys doing one show a week?

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

We're doing one show a week. It drops Fridays, and we do. We've only had one so far. It's called Anatomy of a Match. And it was. It was Jay's idea and to just sit down with the. The people that participated in one match and just talk about nothing but that one match and just. Just pick apart the. You know, the whole process. What was the mindset going into it? How did you feel in there? And we want to do you. And we were thinking Bret Hart.

[Steve Austin]

Oh, dude, that'd be such an easy

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

one to break down.

[Steve Austin]

It'd be unbelievable. And that's one of my favorite matches of all time and one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. I love Bret Hart. So, yeah, I'd be down for that, because there's a lot of backstory to a lot of the things that went into that match. So anytime you guys are ready, just let me know.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Yeah, sure. That's one we'd love to do.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

And, you know, we have one on now. Like I said, Adam said, we just did one of them, and it was Shawn Michaels and Mankind from in youn House. Mind Games. Very underrated, kind of under the radar match. That was just an amazing. If you're gonna put. I've never been into the putting stars on it, but if you were, it's a five star match, you know, it's. It's that good. So it was cool to sit down and get the mind, the mindset of those guys and what the outcome was.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

So it's a lot of fun.

[Steve Austin]

Well, sounds good.

Hey, man, it was good talking about you guys and Adam, good luck over there filming. I'm glad you could join us because, hell, man, with you being all the way over there, I think, you know, based on what I heard in the sound check, it sounds like we're, you know, pretty much in the same room. And Jay, thanks for calling me back. It was, it was good talking to both of you two guys. We've got a lot of history with and we can talk about that again on another podcast. Podcast in a couple weeks.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Sounds good.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Don't look at me. How long? 14 days.

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

Jesus Christ. Until we do the podcast.

[Steve Austin]

Okay. I will be on the ENC podcast coming up in a week or two or three or whenever. Whenever Adam gets back from overseas and they give me a call, I'm here. I'll catch you guys down the road. I enjoyed it at all. Don't look at me. Goodbye.

Hi, everyone. This is JT Rogan from Attack each

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

day, the Harbaughs podcast each week I

[Steve Austin]

co host the show with coaches Jack and Jim Harbaugh.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Join us this week as we welcome University of Michigan defensive coordinator, our very

[Steve Austin]

own Don Brown to the show to

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

talk about what we saw in the Super Bowl.

[Steve Austin]

I really look back on this, there were no mistakes. I didn't see any coaching mistakes, didn't

see any player mistakes.

Even the game turning plays were great

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

play plays, you know, made by an

[Steve Austin]

offensive player or made by a defensive player was.

That's why I say it was a. It was a magnificent football game.

We'll talk offense, defense, special teams covering Rob Gronkowski, coin tosses, and so much more.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

You can listen to this episode, past

[Steve Austin]

episodes and all new episodes each Tuesday for free exclusively on Apple Podcasts Podcast1.com

[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

and the new Podcast One app.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

Don't forget to rate us on itunes

[Steve Austin]

and write a review to tell us

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

what you think of the show.

[Steve Austin]

Most importantly, keep attacking each day with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind.

All right, everybody, give me the Go home Q. It's time to wrap up this podcast and ride off in sunset. Before I do that, I want to thank my guests Adam Copeland, Edge and Jay Riso. Christian guys busy. Hell, they're all over the place. We're all over the place. It was good catching up with them two guys I really enjoyed. I consider very close friends. Never really ran in the same circles but was in the same building business and strike a common bond as far as a love of professional wrestling. Two guys that I consider brothers on the road. Good talking to you. Hey man prowrestlingtease.com Steve Austin has all of my shirts from the Broken Skull Ranch. You can check them [e-mail] SteveAustin I got a badass beer if you like IPAs. It's made by El Segundo Brewing Company. I hear they're out of it right now. It's been selling so fast they need to make some more. If you're in Cali, you can find Broken Skull IPA at Whole Foods and Total Wines. If you don't live in Cali, check insidethecellar.com if they have any and see if they ship to your state. I believe that everybody should have a damn good pocket knife. I got two of them available. You can check out the Cold Steel Broken Skull knife or the New Working man knife and you can get them at my new Amazon store. Amazon has the best price on both knives. Just go to Amazon.com shop steveal I want to say a big thank you to all the fine sponsors of the Steve Austin Show. That's how I'm able to do this podcast for you twice a week for free. You can find all of my [e-mail] just click on the Killer Deals button at the top of the page and then click on the Steve Austin show banner. Speaking of Podcast 1, the new Podcast 1 app is now available for download at the App Store Google Play. There ain't another podcast app like this one anywhere. And that's because the new Podcast one app is loaded with some cool ass features that let you do a lot more than just list your favorite shows. You can access behind the scenes photos, articles and connect with other fans of the shows you like. You can watch over 1,360 virtual reality videos and you can actually watch some of your favorite shows in virtual reality. It's like you're sitting right in the same room with them. So get to the App Store, Google Play and download the new Podcast one app. Now folks, if you want to follow me on social media, I'm on Twitter and Instagram. Eveaustin bsr Till next time folks. My name is is Steve Austin and I will catch your ass down the road.

This has been a Podcast one production. Download new episodes of the Steve Austin show every [e-mail] that's podcastone.com.

[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Steve Austin]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Steve Austin]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

This is mindset, mindset. With movies like Interstellar, Dreamgirls and Gladiator,

[Steve Austin]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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[Adam Copeland (Edge)]

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[Jay Rizo (Christian)]

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