Former WWE Writer Vince Russo Sits Down With Steve Austin Part Two (SAS CLASSIC)

Summary

The Steve Austin Show (SAS Classic)

Episode: Former WWE Writer Vince Russo Sits Down With Steve Austin Part Two
Date: April 3, 2025
Host: Steve Austin
Guest: Vince Russo

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Episode Overview

In this candid and wide-ranging conversation, Steve Austin welcomes back former WWE head writer Vince Russo for Part Two of their deep-dive into the most talked-about moments, controversies, and philosophies of the WWF “Attitude Era.” Broadcasting from Hollywood, CA by way of the Broken Skull Ranch, the two industry heavyweights dissect the creative processes that shaped pro wrestling, touch on infamous incidents like the Montreal Screwjob and Owen Hart’s tragic accident, and answer fan questions on everything from Mount Rushmores to writing advice. The conversation is honest and intense, filled with behind-the-scenes details and unfiltered reflections from two of wrestling’s most influential voices.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Turning Point of the “Attitude Era”

(01:30 – 04:34)

• Vince Russo attributes the explosive growth of WWF’s audience to the decision to bring in Mike Tyson for WrestleMania XIV, describing it as the moment that took wrestling mainstream:

  “The turning point was when Vince had the insight to hire Mike Tyson for that pay per view... When Tyson was on the pay per view that next week, we went from the three to the four... and never looked back.” (Vince Russo, 02:59)

• Russo stresses the importance of expanding beyond the existing fanbase and credits Tyson as a catalyst for capturing mainstream attention.

2. Navigating Criticism & Creative Polarization

(04:34 – 05:32)

• Russo voices frustration with critics reluctant to acknowledge data or accept his perspective, emphasizing how ingrained opinions persist regardless of facts.

3. Creating and Handling Controversial Characters

Goldust, Val Venis, Sable (05:32 – 18:13)

• Russo explains that he wrote Goldust’s innuendo-laden promos but had to dial it back due to sponsor and network pressure:

  “I wrote all the verbiage so I would make sure it was all innuendo... but... Vince is calling me in the office and pulling back the reins...” (Vince Russo, 07:12)

• Austin remembers Goldust’s heat and success before the character was abruptly toned down, reflecting how business pressures sometimes outweigh creative plans.
• On Val Venis, Russo clarifies the idea wasn’t planned—it grew from meeting Sean Morley, who “looked like a porn star."
• With Sable, Russo describes recognizing her potential after witnessing live crowd reactions, drawing a contrast to today’s multi-layered creative approval process.

4. Modern WWE Product & Challenges of a Three-Hour RAW

(08:29 – 14:54)

• Both men agree that three hours is “too long” for a weekly wrestling show, with Russo noting the product suffers from excessive stretching and repetition. He points to a lack of urgency compared to the Attitude Era, where:

  “We never had one match go to a break. Never. There was never a two-segment match ever.” (Vince Russo, 14:07)

• Russo laments WWE’s attempts to “pacify everyone” by mixing kid-friendly and adult content, which leads to a scattered, diluted show:

  “...what they're doing is they're eliminating people. Because when an adult... sees the bull get the tail ripped out of them, they're turning that crap off.” (Vince Russo, 11:27)

5. Building Stories and Characters—Then Vs. Now

(15:17 – 18:13)

• Russo underscores the difference between today’s approach of “heels act this way, babyfaces act that way” and his era’s focus on writing for individual personalities.
• Discussed the impact of a strong talent pipeline (crediting Jim Ross) and how modern rosters often lack overall depth.

6. Iconic Moments – The Beer Truck & Zamboni

(20:16 – 23:34)

• Russo recounts pitching Austin on the famous “beer truck” segment, and the evolution of “what crazy thing can Austin do next?” Always seeking to top previous stunts for maximal impact.

7. Creative Tactics with Different Talents

(24:45 – 27:12)

• Russo says adapting to different personalities was crucial—“putting himself in the boots” of each character:

  “Every single person on that roster would have a different reaction... That's what made it real.” (Vince Russo, 25:51)

• This individualized approach, he believes, is missing from today’s wrestling writing.

8. The Montreal Screwjob: Behind the Curtain

(27:58 – 35:16)

• Russo details pitching the infamous “sharpshooter” finish, being a third party during Vince McMahon and Bret Hart’s phone call, and the emotional fallout:

  “I was the third party on the phone... Every idea under the sun was pitched to Bret... he poo-pooed everything.” (Vince Russo, 28:37)

• Both Russo and Austin agree that while the moment was gutting, they ultimately supported the decision as necessary to protect the company.

9. Aftermath of the Screwjob & Emotional Toll

(35:16 – 39:32)

• Russo reveals being shamed by Mick Foley but stands by his call, emphasizing McMahon’s leadership and willingness to take heat face-to-face.
• Austin and Russo reflect on storytelling—praising long, intricate angles (e.g., The Rock joining the Corporation) and the adrenaline rush, or “high,” from successful shows.

10. Fan Q&A and Miscellaneous Topics

(40:19 – 46:45)

• Mount Rushmore: Russo cites Ernie Ladd, Chief Jay Strongbow, Lou Albano, and Vince McMahon Sr. as his personal top four.
• Creative Structure: Russo says he wouldn’t rejoin WWE under the current multi-writer, multi-vision system—believes “only one vision” can succeed.
• Underutilized Talent: Singles out Dolph Ziggler for his passion and underuse.

11. Direct Fire Q&A – Working with Steve Austin

(48:05 – 52:13)

• Austin recalls a legendary backstage blow-up over creative differences, asking Russo how he managed such situations. Russo compares the role to being a psychologist, respecting when talent is “that into their character.”

12. Controversial Angles (Mae Young, Katie Vick)

(52:44 – 53:17)

• Russo sets the record straight: he was not responsible for the infamous “Mae Young hand” or “Katie Vick” gimmicks.

13. Writing Advice & Creative Philosophy

(54:29 – 56:21)

• Russo encourages aspiring wrestling writers to “write every day,” suggesting personal websites as a portfolio tool. Emphasizes writing craft first, then content.

14. Owen Hart’s Tragic Accident

(66:09 – 75:48)

• Russo offers a raw, heart-wrenching account of how Owen’s fatal fall was never supposed to be part of the original show; it was only added days before at the suggestion of a building manager seeking to showcase riggers’ abilities.

  “If at any time Owen would have said…‘I don’t feel comfortable,’ it would have never happened...that’s why I say, you know, we can’t explain things that happen.” (Vince Russo, 69:01)

• Both men share the emotional toll on themselves and the locker room, Austin recalling the surreal aftermath and difficulty of performing the next night.

15. Why Vince Russo Left WWF

(76:06 – 79:49)

• Russo details burning out from the workload after the introduction of SmackDown, and finally leaving when McMahon suggested he “hire a nanny” instead of moving his family for support:

  “As an Italian guy from New York, when those words came out of his mouth, that was the end... I was on the phone with JJ Dillon over at WCW.” (Vince Russo, 78:21)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Attitude Era's Edge:
  “The matches were violent, promos were cutting edge. No envelope unpushed.”
  (paraphrased theme throughout)
• On the Beer Truck Segment:
  “Steve, tonight you're going to drive a beer truck into the building. And bro, you looked at me like I had three heads.” (Vince Russo, 21:10)
• On Writing for Individuals:
  “…I would put myself in your boots. And how would Steve react if this happened? …That’s what made it real.” (Vince Russo, 25:51)
• On the Fallout from the Montreal Screwjob:
  “I’ll never forget it. Here’s the match. I’m watching the match sitting next to Taker… and then all of a sudden I’m watching and I see that finish go down and take her was gonna kill somebody…” (Vince Russo, 30:40)
• On Owen Hart’s Accident:
  “The show is written… I get a call from Steve Taylor… I said, why not Owen? He’s gonna be the Blue Blazer… it would be a spectacular entrance… it was never written into the original show.” (Vince Russo, 67:13)
• On Representation in the Business:
  “You can't make everybody happy. It's absolutely impossible. You can't make everybody happy.” (Steve Austin, 13:24)
• On Leaving WWF:
  “When he showed me he cared that little about me and my family… that was the end. There was no discussion. There was no turning back.” (Vince Russo, 78:26)

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Important Timestamps

• 01:30 – Russo joins, discussing the “Attitude Era” beginning
• 02:59 – The impact of Mike Tyson’s WWF appearance
• 05:32 – Goldust character controversies & sponsor backlash
• 08:48 – Thoughts on length of RAW and its pacing
• 14:07 – “Never a two-segment match” philosophy
• 18:34 – Talent depth and Jim Ross’ importance
• 20:16 – The beer truck segment origin
• 25:51 – Writing individualized stories for talent
• 28:09 – Montreal Screwjob breakdown
• 35:16 – Emotional aftermath and locker room loyalty
• 40:42 – Russo’s Mount Rushmore
• 46:45 – What it takes to elevate underutilized talent
• 48:05 – Russo on working with Austin, “psychologist” role
• 52:44 – Setting the record straight on infamous angles
• 66:09 – Owen Hart’s accident detailed
• 76:06 – Russo’s reasons for leaving WWF

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a masterclass in wrestling storytelling and creativity, delivered in the blunt, passionate style only Austin and Russo can provide. It offers unique insight into professional wrestling’s most turbulent and creative era, unfiltered accounts of triumph and tragedy, and concrete advice for anyone interested in the craft of sports entertainment storytelling. Russo doesn’t shy away from criticism, takes responsibility when warranted, and openly discusses emotions rarely aired in the wrestling business. For fans of the Attitude Era—and anyone with an interest in how legends are made and legacies shaped—this is essential listening.

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For more, listen to prior episodes and stay tuned for part three, focusing on WCW and TNA.

Transcript

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[Vince Russo]

Podcast 1 presents the Steve Austin Show.

[Steve Austin]

Classics all right, you're talking to Vince Russo. Last week we left off, we were talking about just starting to get the ball rolling with WWF and what it was going to take to spool this thing up and move forward. So it was about a nine month process. Things started getting hot and heavy. You got to refresh my mind because, man, I remember so many parts of what I did back in the day, but not the specifics. So what, what did we start doing back in the day when we really started moving the needle?

[Vince Russo]

You know, Steve, I'll tell you what moved the needle and I don't know. And this isn't a cheap plug. I don't know if you saw this article I wrote on Pyro and Ballyhoo, my website, but I wrote an article of who was really successful for the attitude era. Okay. When I go back and I look at that now, you know, and again, you know, Steve, here's this is what people don't understand because they have opinions and you could talk till you're blue in the face. They're going to believe those opinions and stick with those opinions regardless of what you say. But again, if you really want to go back to the genius of Vince McMahon, to me being in the middle of it, the turning point was when Vince had the insight to hire Mike Tyson for that pay per view. Because here was a guy that just bit off Evander Holyfield's ear. He's barred from boxing. The entire world is talking about it. Vince has a vehicle on pay per view. Connect the dots. And that's what Vince did. And when Tyson came in, what that did. Stephen, when I told you it took nine months to go from the three to the four, that was nine months of getting the wrestling fans that were no longer watching wrestling. So, so now you were filling out that audience. Now it was how do you get the mainstream crowd? How do you go above and beyond the wrestling crowd? And by bringing in Mike Tyson and Vince doing that pay per view by the Tyson fans watch the rest. The boxing f watched a whole different audience when they saw what we were doing on that pay per view. Steve, this is a true story. Anybody can go look at the numbers. The thing with me, Steve, is nobody ever wants to look at the numbers they want. I sucked on this. Nobody wants to look. Steve, you can look at the numbers. When Tyson was on the pay per view that next week, we went from the three to the four. We went, Steve, from like a three six to a four, four and never looked back. So to me, the Tyson thing that, that all the pieces were there that that ignited the explosion.

[Steve Austin]

You're, you're always in self defense mode.

[Vince Russo]

I can't beat people up like you. I can only spout my mouth.

[Steve Austin]

But, but how frustrating does it get? I mean, sometimes, I mean because, I mean it's either because I've been getting the emails, I mean, hey man, the guy's a genius and he was architect behind attitude error and then, oh, he killed this or he did that. So you're riding that fence between love and hate. There's not a whole lot of in between. But is it always about being on having a high awareness of defending yourself?

[Vince Russo]

Steve, you know what it is that drives me crazy more than anything is like I said, the antagonists, the negative, the critics. What drives me crazy is they have their mind made up. So no matter what I say, I could rip out my heart right now and hand it to you. No matter what I say, if their mind's made up, it doesn't matter what I say. They're Going to believe what they want to believe, right?

[Steve Austin]

Hey, let's talk a little bit about some of the characters or the attitude era. Was Goldust already around when you came on board?

[Vince Russo]

Goldust was just starting when I came on board, but at the very beginning, I started writing all his verbiage. I mean, I started that literally from day one. And, I mean, I think it kind of went in a direction that Vince hadn't particularly planned on. It just kind of went that way. And then obviously, I mean, I think he was getting a lot of pushback. Sponsors and usa, so we really had a pull in the reins.

[Steve Austin]

Well, but whose idea was Goldust? Was that Dustin's idea or was it Vince's?

[Vince Russo]

It was. It was one of the two. I wasn't involved in the birth of it. I came aboard once it was already developed.

[Steve Austin]

But, man, I tell you what, that was a time when I was riding with Dustin, we were traveling partners, and I was working, you know, in the first half of the card, maybe anywhere between second, third, fourth match, intermission. And then, you know, Dustin was working. Goldust was working in the main event with Shawn Michaels. You know, business was okay, and they were having hellacious matches because, you know, Shawn Michaels is one of the greatest workers of all time and over. And then Dustin just had a ton of heat, and he was so good at being Goldust, and Dustin could always work his ass off. He was one of my favorite guys to work with, and they were just killing it every night. And I saw the heat, and it was real heat, and I loved it. But then it just chopped his legs out from under him. And I just felt so bad for Dustin because he was so hot, so high and. And then just, boom, down to the ground. What in the flying hell happened?

[Vince Russo]

Well, that's it, Steve. You know, that's the thing. It's like, I wrote all the verbiage so I would make sure it was all innuendo. It was 100%. 100%. He was messing with the mind. But what happened was, I think especially like, through Kevin Dunn and television, you know, they. The letters started to come in and this group and that group and the advertisers. And next thing I know, you know, Vince is calling me in the office and pulling back the reins, and I'm like, vince, listen to what he's saying. It's innuendo. That's all it is. And, bro, I felt the same exact way you felt. I was like, how can you do this to this guy? I mean, it's. It's it's money. It's, you know, it's the best thing he's ever done. Yeah, I guess, you know, just business just pulled it way back, but.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, but you know, to pull that back there and to move forward with some of the other things that we were doing. So it's like you stop one thing, but then you push the envelope in a different direction.

[Vince Russo]

Well, I think though, Steve, when the letters start coming in groups, I think that's when you start. Okay, we gotta.

[Steve Austin]

Right, yeah. So have you watched the WWE product lately?

[Vince Russo]

Yeah, I've been watching it lately. Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

Okay, so now, you know, now he's back on television. Obviously it's a toned down deal. I'm at least glad to see him within the current roster because again, he's always one of my. Been one of my favorite guys and I hated to see what happened to his run back in the day. Hey, while I'm talking about today's Monday night Raw is three hours too many hours.

[Vince Russo]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. Steve, let me first say there's no doubt in my mind that tomorrow I can write a three hour show like we wrote the two hour show back in the day.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Vince Russo]

But not anybody can do that. So, like, it's so. It's painfully obvious to me when I'm sitting there and watching the show how they're stretching every thing for time. It's like, how many times are you gonna play replays? Over and over. We got it. How, you know, how long are you gonna make entrances? It's, it's, it's so obvious to me. But at the end of the day, I just said the word business.

[Steve Austin]

Right?

[Vince Russo]

That's how they're making their money, then. That's what they do, you know?

[Steve Austin]

And again, I'm talking with Vince Russo and we're talking about the process of the creative process. Again, some people think I'm bashing things. I'm not bashing anything. But the show was a little long winded. I love the business. I love wwe. I'm proud for all the guys and gals up there. But to your point, just the stretching out of everything, all the redundant replays, it's just, it's just, it moves too slowly and it could move so much faster. I mean, there's somewhat of a green talent base, but some very, very capable men and women up there who are going to do real great things and become hall of Famers. But just some of the way the show drags on, it just, it doesn't have that sense of urgency. I have to Watch this to see what's going to happen. It doesn't have the same spontaneity that it used to, that same feeling that hey, it's live tv, anything can happen.

[Vince Russo]

Well, Steve, I think along with that, and I wrote about this on my website at all, I think. Here's what, first of all, Steve, from me, you will never hear me bash creative. I don't care if it's the WWE or tna. I know what goes into writing a show every week. So whether I like something or don't like something, I will never bash the creative. Okay? I, I've gone through that. I think the main problem is philosophical because here's what's happening, Steven, here's what you're saying. Put the three hours aside, which is it's too long for anybody in this day and age. I don't care who you are, I don't care what the show is. Three hours is too long. But now here's the problem. Now you've got your PG rating. Okay? First of all, trying to have a kid friendly show on at 9pm, 8pm to 11pm, that's a problem right there. Families and kids aren't watching television from 8 to 11pm Adults are. So, so now you've got a problem there. So now what they try to do, Steve, is within those three hours, they try to pacify the kids with that little bull gimmick running around and horn swaggling, all that. They try to pacify the kids. Next segment you've got an adult orientated segment. So you have a show that is sending out mixed messages, trying to grab everybody. But in the meantime, what they're doing is they're eliminating people. Because when an adult Steve sees the bull get the tail ripped out of them, they're turning that crap off. They're embarrassed by that. In the meantime, when you've got a bray Wyatt maybe cutting a pretty stiff promo, now all of a sudden the parents don't want their kids to be afraid of that guy. So you're sending missed messages and you're separating your audience, you're splitting your audience. And to me that's what I think the main problem is today.

[Steve Austin]

So then what would you go in and do at the end?

[Vince Russo]

You know, Steve, again, it's all business. And you know Vince, what's going to make him the most money? There's a board of directors. They didn't exist when I was there. I get all that. But at the end of the day, the show is on from 9 to 11 o' clock at Night, that's when the show airs. Look at your competition at that hour. It's not Tom and Jerry and Family Guy. It's hard hitting television. So. But again, I'm not there. I don't answer the boards. I guess it has to be what it is.

[Steve Austin]

You know, shouldn't it be about professional wrestling and not trying to entertain everybody under the sun?

[Vince Russo]

You can't. You can't entertain everybody out of the sun.

[Steve Austin]

That's what I'm saying.

[Vince Russo]

You can't make everybody happy. It's absolutely impossible. You can't make everybody happy.

[Steve Austin]

But shouldn't you be true to who and what you are? And that is professional wrestling.

[Vince Russo]

Yes, I agree.

[Steve Austin]

And that goes underneath the umbrella policy. I get that. And you can segue a little bit into that, entertain a few people. But to me, you got to be true to who and what you are. It says World Wrestling Federation back in the day, entertainment, because they needed another word. There comes the entertainment word. But at the end of the day, it's wrestling, Right. I don't think you should avoid that. I think you should embrace and endorse that because that's what brought you to the dance from way back in the day.

[Vince Russo]

But also, Steve, I think that too is part of the problem with the three hour format. Steve, people don't believe me when I tell them this. When I was writing Raw for that span, and then when Ed came along and we were writing Raw for that Spanish Steve, we never had one match go to a break. Never. There was never a two segment match ever. Because the philosophy was, if you're cutting into a commercial during this match, the match isn't important. How can you expect anybody to think it was important? So what's happening is to fill the three hours, the matches are becoming longer and longer and longer. And I think the longer the match comes. Oh, look at that. That's love right there. The longer the match is, I think the less impactful it is.

[Steve Austin]

Right, well, let's, let's jump back into the attitude error. That's my silver lab. Moolah, I just saw your dog in the background. What kind of dog is that?

[Vince Russo]

Is he back there somewhere?

[Steve Austin]

He was a while ago.

[Vince Russo]

He's half chow and half Shar Pei.

[Steve Austin]

You got any more dogs?

[Vince Russo]

No, that's it.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, man. But obviously he's an inside dog.

[Vince Russo]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Steve Austin]

I got three labs, man. And Moolah's about a year and four months old. And so she is the biggest pain in the ass in the world. So I love her to Death. But it takes a lot of energy to keep up with that dog. Hey, so let's go back. Attitude era. So there was Stone Cold Steve Austin. You know, we ramped me up and I was doing all kinds of cool stuff. Val, Venus, Sable. Those names are always brought up as being extremely controversial, and I don't think they're very controversial at all. I mean, Val Venus did some interesting things when they took him in the shower and did the. That gimmick that was obviously a little bit edgy. And as a character, I mean, you and I had this conversation way back in the day. I said, man, I kind of thought I saw a glass ceiling with that character just because, you know, how high can he go? Because he's either going to be kind of like a half heel, half baby face, just depending on how that crowd takes him. But I remember I was watching and you had this very same conversation with me back in the day as I listened to one of your interviews earlier. You know, when you talk to him, that's just who and what he reminded you of. And that's exactly what you told me back in the day.

[Vince Russo]

There was no plan. We're going to create a porn star, right? They told me, Sean Walley's ready. So, you know, you got to meet with Sean Wally. You got to give him a gimmick. So, bro, I'd sit there and interview this guy and I'm. I just. I'm like, this guy looks like a porn star. I mean, it's that. That was it. And you know what, Steve, here's the thing. Because this may be hard to believe, and I don't know how it was for you back then, but I can honestly say, like, in my job, there were very few politics involved. I mean, you know, when you're just writing with Vince directly, there aren't layers that, you know, you have to go through. And when you bring up Sable, you know, here's the beauty of that. And I'll never forget this, because I tell everybody this. I'll never forget one night we had her on. On the episode of Raw. She was displaying a blow up chair that she was the model for a blow up chair. I remember Steve being in the house. She got the biggest pop that night besides you. And when I heard that pop, I'm like, we, we've got to do something with her. You can't do that today. There's too many people that would have to prove that in order for that to happen today. Right. So how many opportunities are being missed?

[Steve Austin]

Right? Yeah.

[Vince Russo]

You Know, I look at that guy, Dolph Ziggler. I don't know anything about the guy, okay? I know when I watch him, there's something there and he entertains me. But everything I read, the guy doesn't get a push or this or the other thing because of whatever he's done backstage. The but back during the Attitude era, man, that didn't exist. If somebody was going to pop you a rating and make you money, they were going to be on tv, End of story. It's not like that today.

[Steve Austin]

So that's. You know, we started. We finally started. WCW was kicking our ass there for what, 84 weeks, whatever it was. Finally we turned the corner. We started kicking our ass. I mean, the Attitude air was on fire. We took off. We were off to the races. So how hot and heavy was it for you each and every single week to try to one up the show before and keep the momentum going?

[Vince Russo]

Steve, I tell you, man. And you know, writing a show every single week, you know, a live show back then, you don't have the luxury of thinking about that. You really don't. I mean, my whole mindset always was, this show is going to be better than last week's show. That was always the mindset. But you know what, Steve? Here's where J.R. comes in, you know, and like, again, these are the things, like, people don't really get down to the nitty gritty, okay? This is where JR comes in and the marriage with creative. Okay, Steve, when I went to work with WCW and when I went to work with TNA, I'm not exaggerating when I say to you, 50% of those guys shouldn't have even been on the roster. They should not have even been on the roster. When I was working with J.R. and he was the coach of the team, and J.R. was doing the hiring and the firing, and everybody on that roster delivered. So as a writer, whether I'm writing for Austin or d' Lo Brown or Ron Simmons or Sean Waltman, it didn't matter because I was working with pros. No matter what I wrote, I knew they were going to hit it out of the park compared to WCW and TNA, where I would write stuff for guys and I'd be like, oh, God, what is this going to look like? We didn't have that then because everybody was just such a pro. And that was the reflection on Junior, you know, that shows you how vital that role is.

[Steve Austin]

Hey, let's talk about the. You mentioned dealing with some people and people being pros. The reason we got into contact last night or last week, whenever it was recording this on the same day, but it was about you having to talk me into the beer truck. And you said I insisted on driving in my regular Chevy truck. So what was the deal? Run that by me because I'm fuzzy on that and I'm not disputing it at all. I just wanted to throw that out there so we can settle that. For the people that listen to the Steve Austin show, your wording is a.

[Vince Russo]

Little off of exactly what I said. Okay, now Steve, here's the thing you gotta understand, okay? WWE was such a top notch organization, okay? I, nobody ever worked for since was close. Steve, I'm not kidding. You remember when we did the invasion of wcw?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Vince Russo]

I literally said to myself, I am going to write on this piece of paper that DX is going to drive a rocket launcher up to the building because there's no way they're going to get a freaking rocket launcher. That's why I wrote it. I'm like, I'm gonna write this and see what they come back with. Steve, I show up at the building, they have a freaking rocket launcher. Okay? So now you gotta understand when in my mind this raving lunatic is gonna drive in a beer truck, I know how good it's gonna be, you know, I mean, you know, you know, come on, you know, people don't know. Guys like Richie Curtis, you know, saying, you know how freaking good it's gonna be. So like, bro, I can remember pulling you in the back and saying, okay, Steve, tonight you're going to drive a beer truck into the building. And bro, you looked at me like I had three heads. Now you have to keep in mind I've been planning this for the whole week. You know, So I know we got the beer truck. I know how the beer is going to spray. I know everything that's going to happen. And you did look at me and your words were, why can't I just drive my truck in? I looked at you and I said, steve, it's a beer truck. You're going to drive a beer truck. Like it was so out of the realm that I don't even think that you could understand what I was trying to say. But you know, again, bro, it's like we had the luxury of knowing no matter what we came out with, it was going to be gold.

[Steve Austin]

Whose idea was the Zamboni?

[Vince Russo]

Oh, gosh, I'm sure we all came up with that creatively. I can't remember that specifically, but you know, Steve, that was the thing with you, man, every creative session would start with what Steve's doing, and then you would work on down. You know, you would make sure everybody on the pay per view is covered. But that was always the challenge. Like, what could you do that was bigger than last week, right? You know, the cement truck and Vince's sports car. I mean, we had a. I mean, you talk about outside of the box because if we didn't, we didn't want you doing the same thing everybody else was doing, right? So it was always just, what can he do that nobody would expect?

[Steve Austin]

You're listening to another classic episode of.

[Vince Russo]

The Steve Austin show, only on podcast one.

[Commercial Announcer 3]

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[Vince Russo]

The Steve Austin Show. The Steve Austin Show.

[Steve Austin]

Hot. Sitting here talking events. Hey, Vince, what was your strategy, psychology or pitch presentation when dealing with different talents on the roster? Because it's funny, you know, in one of your interviews, someone asked was Steve. Did Steve Austin get to a state of paranoia trying to protect himself? And initially you kind of signed off on. Yeah, maybe you came back at the end of the interview and said no. Steve was very, very selective about what he would and wouldn't do. He was very cautious. So, yeah, I was never paranoid. But then once you get to the top, and it was a rocket ride fast. Long story short, just straight to the top, you're very protective of what you've got to do because you got to watch your ass because everybody, hey, man, that was a competitive environment. Everybody's trying to take your damn spot, and that's the way it ought to be everywhere. So you're very leery about what you do. But anyway, that being said, did you change your tactics or your strategy to deal with the different personalities and characters, if I will, that you dealt with Steve?

[Vince Russo]

Absolutely, without a doubt. But Steve, here was the main ingredient that I think is missing from today. And I think it's been missing since the Attitude era, when I would sit down with a blank piece of paper and I would write, okay, this is Stone Cold Steve Austin's story this week. What I would do at that point, Steve, is I would put myself in your boots. And how would Steve react if this happened? Okay. How would Rock react if this happened? Every single person on that roster would have a different reaction somehow. That's what made it real, because everybody would act and react differently somehow from that. We've kind of worked our way back to heels. React this way, and baby faces react this way. Now, if you're going to write TV that way, that means that 50% of the talent acts one way, the other 50% acts a different way. You don't have 100% of personalities across the board. So that's what you're always faced with. That's how I wrote the television. How would this person react to that situation? And everybody was handled differently.

[Steve Austin]

We're just skipping around a little bit, just talking in general. But how important or how close were you with Kevin Dunn?

[Vince Russo]

Not real close, Steve. And I mean, first of all, I got along with Kevin Gray. Never had an issue with Kevin. But the thing with me, Steve, is I think you're your most success when everybody stays in their lane. Okay. Vince Russo wrote television. Kevin Dunn did TV junior Did Talent Relations. If everybody does what they do best, you're gonna have the best product. So I never really crossed that television line with Kevin unless he came to me and had a question or something like that. So, you know, we didn't really work that much together. That was TV was basically Vince's baby.

[Steve Austin]

Okay, okay. Hey, let's talk a little bit about the Montreal screw job, because I was reading some of your interviews or listening to some of your interviews about that, and you're basically the guy that came up with the finish, right?

[Vince Russo]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin]

So take me through that whole process, because there we are. I mean, we're going to be there very, very soon. Brett's going to go down. WCW need to get the belt off of him, doesn't want to do the favors. So everybody's pretty much a stalemate. And obviously, I guess every idea under the sun had been pitched to Brett and he had denied and said no to every single one of them. So you guys, obviously, between a rock and a hard place, you got to get the belt off of him before he goes wcw.

[Vince Russo]

Yeah. Everything you said is absolutely correct. What a lot of people don't know, Steve, is it should never come into Question whether or not every idea under the sun was pitched to Brett. Because what a lot of people don't understand is when that happened, it was me, Vince and Cornette. Okay? Vince pulled me to the side. Vince said to me, vince, I'm going to call Brett now. I need you to be a third party on the phone to listen to the conversation, okay? I was the third party on the phone. And I love Bret Hart. I love him. I respect him more than anything. I heard firsthand everything thrown at him. He poo pooed everything. I mean, we tried to work night hard in, I mean everything. And I mean they were all pretty, you know, as, as good as we could make Brett look. Everything, right? So this conversation had been going on, you know, Steve, from nine in the morning, it's seven o' clock at night now. You know how like when you get to the point of you not getting anywhere and you just freaking throw something out there because it's like that's, that's where I was. So it's going backwards. So finally I said, you know what, Vince? Screw it. I said, let, let, let, let Sean put bread in his own. Move the sharpshooter and let the referee call for the bell. End it simple, end of story. This is at like 8 o' clock at night, okay? Vince didn't say a word. This is, this is probably like Thursday, right? Okay. Right after that I went home the next day, I don't hear anything from Vince. And Vince and I would talk every day, right? We get to the pay per view, he's ignoring me. So Steve, at this point, I don't know what the end game is. I have no idea. And bro, I'll never forget it. Here's the match. I'm watching the match sitting next to taker, okay?

[Steve Austin]

I was watching in the back, in.

[Vince Russo]

The back on the monitor, like not having a clue to what, what, what he decided. And then all of a sudden I'm watching and I see that finish go down and take her. Was gonna kill somebody if he would have known, I would not be here today. Okay, But I also want to add this, Steve, like this a part of story to a lot of people don't know Owen was still on our roster. Okay. A couple of days later, less than a week later, Owen called me crying on the phone. Vince, you have to talk to Brett. Brett says if I stay with the wwe, he's gonna disown me as a brother. He don't want anything to do with me. Please, you've got to talk to him. So I was like, owen, why are you calling me? You need to talk to Vince about this. Vince. I tried calling Vince. I can't get a hold in. Somebody needs to talk to him, right? So, of course, bro, I. Vince could fire me over talking to Brett, you know, so the first thing I try to do, I try to call Vince. He don't answer the phone, right? So, bro, I love Dolan so much as a human being that I'm like, I gotta. I gotta call Brett, you know? So less than a week after that, I called Brett on the phone and he wanted to kill everybody. I mean, forget about it. And I said to Brett, man up. I said, brett, I said, at the end of the day, Vince was looking to protect his entire company. It had nothing to do with Vince not trusting you. Vince didn't trust Eric Bischoff. Vince did not want Eric Bischoff parading his WWF title on their show. Vince was trying to protect the company. And I said to him, I said, brett, as much as you'll never understand this and you're going to want to rip my head off, I totally stand behind Vince 100% of what he did. Now, am I sorry that it went down that way? Of course I am. Nobody wanted to see that. But Steve being on that phone and knowing Brett was shooting down every. Every single idea, he left Vince with no choice. And that's why what happened, happened.

[Steve Austin]

It was interesting that night. Of course, I watched the finish go down as well. I was at the building, and, man, I couldn't believe it. And I was like, man, this is a guy who's our world champion. How are we going to proceed forward again? Business was what it was. It wasn't the greatest in the world, but he was our world champion and our leader, and I was behind him. And to this day, I consider Bret Hart to be a very, very close friend and a person I have nothing but the utmost respect for. One of my favorite guys to work with. But that being said, I agree with the decision that was made as far as protecting the business, protecting the territory of the company that, you know, Mr. McMahon Sr. Had started. So, you know, I was on board with the decision. But then at the building, I mean, it was total chaos and shock, and I didn't know what the heck was going on. And all of a sudden, who was it? Was it Davey boy and Owen who went to the ring? Neidhart was there. He was pissed off and confused. And what happened? When were you around when Vince walked into the room to confront Brett and got his cloth Cleaned.

[Vince Russo]

It's like. I mean, Steve, you know, don't get me wrong, bro. Me and Vince have had our differences during the year, and, I mean, I. I haven't talked to him in years. I mean, that's. That's a shoot. But how do you not respect a guy for doing that? I mean, here he did something he did not want to do. He tried to do everything to get around it and avoid it. I can attest to that. And to walk in his locker room and to take what Brett believed Vince had coming, bro. How do you not respect that? I mean, to this day, I look back on that, and that just. You know, you could say a lot of things about Vince, but when you look at that, I mean, that. That really can tell you the makeup of a guy that was. That was incredible to me. I'll never forget the thing that ripped my heart out was after that happened, you know, Mick walked past me and he stopped right in front of me, and he said to me, you should be ashamed of yourself. And, like, that tore my heart out. But I'm like, he was trying to protect you, Mickey. He was trying to protect everybody that works for him. It's. But that's. That's what happened.

[Steve Austin]

Well, tough day at the office that night, but it was. It was a hell of a moment. It was. And I. In reading and listening to some of your interviews, again, I didn't know that you're the one that came back. When I finished your whole tenure there in WWF back in the day, what were some of the things that you were the most proud of, Ideas or storylines that you came up with and.

[Vince Russo]

We executed, Man, Steve, I was most proud of, like, I think the intricate storylines. I mean, the storylines that we had, like, we had built for months and months and months. And then when we had the payoff, nobody ever saw it coming. I think the one that comes to mind, which. Which I think was the most intricate was the night Rock joined the corporation, because there were so many seeds planted along the way, and nobody picked up on anything. And here's the funny part, Steve, that cracks me up to this day. A lot of people didn't see it coming because towards the end, okay, Rock hit Vince with the people's elbow. So in their minds, it was like, you know, Rock just hit Vince with the people's elbow. And I was. We were saying, it's an elbow. He hit him with a freaking elbow. He didn't shoot the guy between the eyes with a shotgun. I mean, that. That's how much they were Buying into stuff. And I can remember at the pay per view when that thing played out, I mean, bro, very rarely do you get silence. And I mean there was that absolute silence until that moment kicked in and it was like, son of a gun, man. You just don't see that anymore, man. And again, Steve, I just think it's the way the writing is set up today. Layer on top of layer on top of layer. You've got to have so many people on the same page to be able to do that. It'll never happen.

[Steve Austin]

As a performer, as a guy in a ring, a pro wrestler, to go out there and work each and every night and take those people on a ride and it's a thrill. And every time you come out of a ring, I don't care what level you're on, there's just that rush of adrenaline. Speaking for myself, man, when all of the arenas were full every single night and I was working with some of the greatest talent a guy could work with, man, you were. The high lasted several hours at a Monday night raw when we rocked the house and you knew we were lighting up the audiences all over the world and doing big ass numbers. Did you get that same high? Because a lot of that was your writing and you were living vicariously through the actions that all of us were doing.

[Vince Russo]

And I'm thinking of next week's show, man, and I hate to say that, but I never had the opportunity to stop and smell the roses because there was always next week's show ahead of you. And by the time you guys were performing that, I was already done with it and on to the next thing. But you know, Steve, here's the thing too, that I think is the difference between men and now. And I know you'll remember this and I remember telling you at the buildings, remember the night the lights went out when you and Savio Vega was in the ring.

[Steve Austin]

Florence, South Carolina.

[Vince Russo]

Okay, there you go.

[Steve Austin]

And Steve, there's certain things that I remember. Like yesterday, yesterday, that was one of them. I forgot a whole bunch.

[Vince Russo]

I remember, I remember the you in the matches with Savio because that was the beginning of it. That was the early steps of it, you and Savio. And I remember that. And here's why I remember that. Because I remember telling you back then, Steve, even when you were in those matches, it was spaldings to the wall like you were competing for the title against, against the Rock. There was no difference in your mind. And that was across the roster. I hate to say how many times today I'll Turn on a wrestling show. And if these guys aren't calling it in and phoning it in, I don't know what they're doing. But when we had a situation where every single match you guys was in was the most important match of your life, that's how you get people to watch. That's the sense of urgency.

[Steve Austin]

Right? Right. Hey, you know, I want to keep this conversation kind of specifically to WWF stuff, because I want to talk to you also about WCW and tna, but let's save that for another show. With that being said, I reached out to my Twitter followers, Steve Austin, bsr, and I said if you have any questions for Vince Russo also you can find him on Twitter pyroballyhoo. Send them in to my email address. And they did. So let's go back and forth with some Q&As that the listeners sent in for you to answer. And I'm going to weed through these because, again, I want to save wcw. If you're cool with it, I'd like to save WCW for an entirely different conversation. And let's stay with the WWF vibe.

[Vince Russo]

Yep, absolutely.

[Steve Austin]

All right, here we go. And some of these will be some generic questions, but they won't pertain to wcw. We'll stick to basic wrestling questions or WWF material. Okay. Everyone's talking about a Mount Rushmore these days. Vince, who is on your Mount Rushmore in pro wrestling. And that came from. @ Drunk Logic. You're Mount Rushmore.

[Vince Russo]

Is this a certain period of time?

[Steve Austin]

You know, I think it's just the entire time pro wrestling has been around. So that's going to make it tough on you.

[Vince Russo]

Well, it's going to be different than a lot of other people.

[Steve Austin]

That's okay.

[Vince Russo]

Yeah. I'll tell you who is on my personal Mount Rushmore, I would have to say. And I'm sure you know the big cat, Ernie Lad.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Vince Russo]

Light years ahead of his time. Light years ahead of his time. I had the pleasure of meeting him one time, Steve, and I'll never forget shaking hands with him. His hand wrapped around my entire forearm. I mean, the guy was huge. So, I mean, definitely, because somebody I grew up on, you know, Chief J. Strombo was also somebody I grew up on. I was a big mark for the managers. And, you know, when you get to Blassie and Albano and wizard, it's very hard. I'm only choosing Albano because he was Italian.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Vince Russo]

Would be the third guy on that Mount Rushmore, and I'd have to say, bro, honestly, the fourth guy would probably be Vince Senior, because without him, none of it would have ever existed.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Vince Russo]

So that's probably who I would put on mine.

[Steve Austin]

And, you know, that's interesting because you get people who are so opinionated and passionate about their Mount Rushmores, but to me, it's just like we were talking in a conversation previously about the rock band kiss. Music is very subjective. I love their music, but I also love the entertainment value that they brought. So it'd be like comparing a great technician, like a Brett the Hitman Hart to the Ultimate Warrior. Two entirely different vibes, acts and presentations, but two hall of Famers, you know, so it's all subjective. So more power to you. All right, this covers a little bit of WCW, but this is also from drunklogic on Twitter. Better to work for Bischoff or McMahon.

[Vince Russo]

Well, see, you know, I saw that question. I never worked for Eric Bischoff, you know, so that I really can't answer that question. The situations I was put in with Eric, both at WCW and tna, I worked with Eric, so I never really worked for Eric, so I really couldn't answer that.

[Steve Austin]

You don't see. But so, okay, working with him, working for him. Just as far as the creative process, because you had that vibe with Vince and now you're talking about creative process.

[Vince Russo]

With Eric, I'd say it was easier working for Vince. And the reason being you can slot in. In Eric Bischoff's place. You could slot in a Jim Ross or Jim Cornette. It's all the business we were raised on. So, you know, but the idea is, like, Eric came up on Vern Ganya in Minnesota and that type of wrestling. I came up with what Vince came up with. So we were on the same page. So that made it a lot easier.

[Steve Austin]

All right, here we go, Vince. I heard that WWE recently released a key writer for Raw and got to wonder about the possibilities of Russo and WWE collaborating together. If WWE ever made an offer, would Russo accept? Coming from Robert Kodger?

[Vince Russo]

Yeah. You know, I mean, I'd lie to you if I said I wouldn't. I wouldn't be excited about the possibilities of working with Vince again and probably more Hunter now, you know, and I always got along with Hunter. I thought he was a great guy. And, yeah, I mean, that would probably excite me. But again, Steve, the way the creative structure is formatted today to me, does not work, will not work. And I would not want to put myself in an environment where I was going to fail. You know, I tried that route at wcw. I Tried that route later in tna. What made the Attitude near so successful was one vision. You can only have one vision. If there's a couple of guys, 10 guys. You've got 10 visions.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Vince Russo]

So it. My style would not work in that environment right now.

[Steve Austin]

Right. It's very interesting. Here we go. This came from, of all people, Billy Corgan at Billy on Twitter. Hey, please ask Vince what current overlooked wrestlers he'd like to book in a long feud and why.

[Vince Russo]

Oh, boy. I, like I said it earlier, I like that Dolph Ziggler, you know, I like it because he looks like he's excited to be there. You know, I mean, he looks like he loves what he's doing, and he looks like there, that passion is there. And to me, Steve, I think passion is the most important thing, because I don't know how a guy could be on that ring, on your television set going through the motions like this is just another match. So he's one of the guys I think is being underutilized a lot.

[Steve Austin]

Little bit. How do we pop this guy out? How do we get him to what we call the next level to make him a player?

[Vince Russo]

Steve, I'll never forget this, and this is a story that you don't know either. And I remember it like it was yesterday, the night you became champion. You went out there with the tie and the whole gimmick, remember?

[Steve Austin]

Yep.

[Vince Russo]

Prior to that show, Vince McMahon pulled me aside. Okay. And Vince said his exact words to me were, vince, you are now with Steve 24 7. He said this. Nobody else matters. Nobody else matters. So if you have a talent that you believe in, then one person has to take that same interest in that individual and just not only write stuff is great, but produce them, stay with them, work with them, you know? And again, just seeing that WWE structure right now, I don't know how it lends to that. I just. I don't know. There's just way too many chefs for me.

[Steve Austin]

Gotcha. All right, let's move on. Here we go. You're listening to another classic episode of.

[Vince Russo]

The Steve Austin show, only on Podcast One.

[Commercial Announcer 3]

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[Steve Austin]

Direct Fire. Vince, what was it like working with Steve Austin? Can you describe how you two collaborated, if any, on angles, promo storylines coming from Martin. Martin Ho. What was it like working with me, Vince? Because hey, let me bring one story to mind.

[Vince Russo]

Go ahead.

[Steve Austin]

There was a particular individual I did not want to work with and we kept doing a few little things where the storylines would flirt and inevitably it was going to lead to confrontation and we would have to do business together. And I had, you know, previously stated, hey man, at this time I don't want to work with this guy. And so there we were, Cleveland Gund Arena. It's one of those occasions that I remember vividly. And there was that match that I was going to have on Monday Night Raw. And then we went in that room and it was you, me, Vince, Jim, probably Bruce. And there was about, probably about eight guys in that room. And highly unprofessional would be a good way to put it. I cussed everybody in that room like a dog. You remember that?

[Vince Russo]

Yeah, I do.

[Steve Austin]

And it was, it was brutal and Vince was right there. So I mean, it was brutal. It was one of the worst cuss fests I've ever had in my life. And it was out, it was all one sided and then I walked out the door. So that being said, that was one of those days at the office. And again, I had previously stated that I didn't want to work with the guy and I was boxing to a corner that I didn't want to be and I thought that all of a sudden now you guys made me the bad guy, so I'm going to be the bad guy. Do you remember that day?

[Vince Russo]

Yeah, I do.

[Steve Austin]

Rough day, Dollars. So anyway, that was a bad move on my part, but me being very firm in what I believed in my vision and taking care of myself and I believed I needed to at least that time. So now you're, now that I've talked about that story, how was it to deal with me on a night in, night out basis? Because I'd like to think that I was very professional as far as being early to work and late to leave. But sometimes, man, if I didn't like something, I could be very abrasive.

[Vince Russo]

Steve, I think a lot of my job was like being a psychologist and every guy Was different. And I had to know who I was dealing with. So once I understood the psyche of somebody, it made it a lot easier for me because I knew how to go about it. I knew. Steven, you said it earlier in this interview, and I knew this, and maybe paranoid is the wrong word, but I knew there was a big part of you that got to where you got so quickly, like, you know, a firework. I mean, boom. Like that. But also realize, you know what, it could turn the other way just as fast.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Vince Russo]

I mean, am I right?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah. But you got to understand. Yeah, it was. I was just. I was an overnight success, seven and a half years in the making. So I had already been jerked around, had the carpet yanked out from under me. I was putting a tag team. I flying Brian Pillman. I didn't give a rat's ass about that. Of course, I loved the Hollywood blinds, and Brian Pillman would go on to be one of my best friends in the business. Absolutely loved him. But I was promised a singles run as a US Champion with Harley race, so I was looking forward to that. So then the tricep injury, getting fired. So I'd been around the horn a few times and had been kind of held down from a bureaucratic or political stance, and things just. They didn't see a bright future for me. So then all of a sudden, I have this bright future and I'm living it now and I'm in the present and. And I got to take care of myself. So that's where a lot of that came from.

[Vince Russo]

And I knew that. So a lot of times, Steve, I mean, a lot of time was spent of explaining every detail and why we were doing it. But I will also tell you this, and I'm not saying this because I'm talking to you, because this is where you and Rock were very similar. When you had a talent that looked at everything they did that way and picked it apart and tried to make it better, when you had that talent that was that into their character, it was that talent that was going to be over.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Vince Russo]

You know, and that's where I knew that, because I worked with all different kinds of talents. And when you put that type of time and energy into what you were doing that night, you know, first and foremost, it had to be respected by me. You know, did it get to be a pain in the backside when you're dealing with 30 other guys and you got. Of course it does. But on the other side of the coin, when you put your. Yourself in the talent shoes, then you get It.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Vince Russo]

And that's what I tried to do, you know?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, that's great. All right, here we go. Vince, were you responsible for Mae Young giving birth to a hand? That's from Eddie, you know?

[Vince Russo]

You know, but see, that's the thing, man. The two things I get.

[Steve Austin]

That's the thing, I gotta tell you.

[Vince Russo]

The two things I get hammered for, that I was nowhere near the WWE at the time, is the more is the May Young hand, which I was working for another company.

[Steve Austin]

Okay.

[Vince Russo]

And the Katie Vic gimmick.

[Steve Austin]

Right.

[Vince Russo]

I was working for somebody else all the time. I get labeled those.

[Steve Austin]

Okay, so you got it on record, he's not responsible for the Katie Vick angle or Mae Young giving birth to the hand. I'm glad through all the hullabaloo we've gone through, we could clear up those two facts. Okay, first of all, I want to say I'm a fan of you both, Steve and Vince. But I see Vince gets crapped on many times for his crazy ideas. My question is, how does he deal with all the hate and where does the inspiration for his ideas come from? Thanks. And that comes from Matthew. So some of your crazy ideas. What were some of your crazier ideas, Vince?

[Vince Russo]

You know, Steve, when I would sit down to write a show, I never wanted to write something I'd seen before. You know what I'm saying? And that's tough in wrestling, bro, because what haven't you seen in wrestling? But, like, if I. Yeah, if I was there, and I'm like, no, I'd seen this before. Whether it was a tiny spin or a huge spin or whatever, I tried to come up with something I had never seen before as a wrestling fan. And I mean, no matter what that was, to be able to put something on television fan, that's new to wrestling fans. That's what I always tried to do. And sometimes you got to reach way out of the box, you know?

[Steve Austin]

Right. Hey, here's one for events, and I get a lot of emails, people trying to break into the wrestling business. From a writing standpoint, I'd love to know how one goes about writing for a wrestling promotion. Obviously, it was interesting hearing your story. I know it's more about who you know and what you've done, but what steps can you take to become a writer for a big company?

[Vince Russo]

Steve, I gotta be honest with you, and I hate to say this, but, like, if I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't even entertain the idea. I mean, basically, my story and what happened to me shouldn't have happened. The only reason it happened was because it was supposed to happen. But when you're looking at only two major companies in the. In the United States and you want to be a writer for one of those companies, and, you know, the situation with Hunter and Stephanie over here, I mean, you know, there just comes a point when you got to kind of look at the odds and say, you know what? That. That might not be my best career choice.

[Steve Austin]

Okay. But that being said, let's go to the Hunter Stephanie dynamic you mentioned. What do you mean by you're dealing with that?

[Vince Russo]

Well, you know. You know, Steve, it's like when you have people in charge, you know, they want to do what they want to do, and, bro, you. You could have the greatest ideas on the face of the planet. If in their heads they have an idea and a direction and a vision and that's what they want to do, you're not going to change them.

[Steve Austin]

Okay? But that being said, you wouldn't go back down that road. There's two companies. But if somebody off the street came up to you and asked you, because you were a head writer for all three organizations for a long time, what advice would you give someone who's trying to be a writer to try to get their foot in the door of any of the three companies?

[Vince Russo]

The only thing I would say, Steve, is write. And I mean write every second of every day. You know, I told you, I just started my new website, pyro and ballyhoo.com, which I've been wanting to do for years. But to this day, Steve, I write new material every single day.

[Steve Austin]

No material in regards to wrestling or pop culture, Anything.

[Vince Russo]

Right. Just right. You have to write everything I once saw. Like, Jerry Seinfeld actually keeps a calendar, like 1 through 365. And he crosses off every day because he makes sure he writes every single day. That's Jerry Seinfeld. So the first thing you got to do is really the craft. And probably the best way to get that started today is through your own website, because you can write about what you want to write about. Now, once you've got a bevy of material that you've written and you put that together with a resume, then you can start sending that out to the appropriate people.

[Steve Austin]

Okay, our past conversation, we talked about the attitude error. Let's do a plug for Pyro and Ballyhoo. What is it exactly and how long has it been around now, when did you create this?

[Vince Russo]

I just started pyro and ballyhoo.com the beginning of May. Something I've always been wanting to do, but didn't have a clue how to do it. Didn't know how to build a website, didn't know anything. I didn't want to be in a situation where I would write something and had to depend on somebody else to put it up. So I had to learn everything. So finally, you know, having some time now, you know, I got the education I needed. I started at the beginning of May. It's really entertainment slash pop culture, slash wrestling. And what it is, Steve, is basically like, I'll wake up every morning and I'll go on there and I'll write about what I want to write about today. And to me, it's just a great freedom of having to write wrestling shows every single week, you know, for years and years and years. So it's really just a, you know, it's just a really combination of everything. Entertainment.

[Steve Austin]

All right, Pyro and ballyhoo dot com. Couple more questions here.

[Vince Russo]

Vince, can I ask you a question?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, man, go ahead. I got all day, dude.

[Vince Russo]

Because I always. I always wondered this, you know, because I got to tell you, Steve, like, at the beginning, it bothered me, but then when I. When, obviously when I started watching it, I was entertained by it. Right. When I left the WWE in 1999, I left the WWE, which. Stone Cold Steve Austin still being a bad. You know what?

[Steve Austin]

Okay.

[Vince Russo]

I mean, that's who you were. Okay. Then as I'm away and I'm with WCW, you know, I started seeing on YouTube, like, the skits with you and Kurt and wearing a cowboy hat and that whole Gimmick, that was 100% comedy right now. I would watch that and I would say to myself, when we go back about the conversations we had back then, I would watch that and I was like, oh, my gosh. You know, Steve Austin was created this certain way for so many years. Number one, how did they convince him to go in this direction? And number two, why did he go in that direction after all those years? What was behind that?

[Steve Austin]

That's a great question. I got a great answer. It was my idea to turn heel at WrestleMania 17, so I turned heel. Now, as I talk about my career these days, you know, if I could go back in time, I would have called an audible in the ring, hit Vince with a stunner, and said, hey, I'm going to stay babyface. That match, that build, reinvigorated Stone Cold. I was starting to feel a little flat and a little bit still Although you watch that match over, you see who got the louder pop. I was a Texas crowd, it was my pretty much hometown and rock was extremely over. Anyway, we had a great rivalry and are very good friends back then and to this day. So. But I was feeling, you know, Vince is always looking for something big to do at WrestleMania. Always looking for something big and he didn't have anything big that year. So, yeah, hello me, rocket scientist. I've always loved working heel better than Baby Face. It's more freedom, more liberty. And you can just go out there and let it all hang out and do whatever you want to do. And I didn't mind being hated. I looked for real heat. So anyway, I turned hill. Shortly thereafter, Booker T comes in, we're at the Meadowlands in Jersey, and Booker gives me that bump through the table. I broke three bones in my back. The deal is they don't fix those bones when they break. They just leave them folded flat over and they heal like that. So I was in so much pain, I could not wrestle, I couldn't work, I couldn't do anything. When I was active, there'd be a dressing room or when I started coming out of that injury, there'd be a doctor in every single town that we were in waiting for me. We'd go in the bathroom, he'd shoot me up 60 milligrams of Toradol so I could work. That was self preservation mode. I couldn't really do anything on TV in the way of performing. So rather than. And I wasn't really being hated because people really didn't want to. Some people bought into it and they tried to hate me, but it was basically survival. If I couldn't go out there and try to get heat, I at least wanted to, to be entertaining as a heel and push the envelope with my character. So, man, a lot of that stuff was my idea, just pushing the envelope to try to entertain the fans because I couldn't use my body. So that's why we went down that road.

[Vince Russo]

Were you at any point afraid? Because I mean, when you look at it now, I mean, it was a. I mean that was a gamble. I mean, calculated, yes, but still, after all the investment and everything you had done and really know, not knowing, was there any part of you that was, I don't know if I should do this.

[Steve Austin]

No. Again, man, it was survival. I needed to be entertaining on TV to do some stuff. And if you can't go out there and physically beat someone up or wrestle and then cheat or do something dastardly to get that win, you're dead in the water. I've always said it starts and stops with the in ring product. And when you don't have that proving ground, that's how you back up your words. That's the actions that you go out there and that's to come to Jesus meeting. You can talk all that trash. Whether it's talking in a positive regard or you run someone down, you're trying to sell tickets to get the people to tune in on the television to watch that match or get the people to come to the arena to see that match. I couldn't do that. So I just wanted to entertain people. Yeah, it was a risk. When I look back, there was a lot of good stuff that came out of that and I pushed the envelope. But that being said, it was what it was and I felt that I just had to do that to survive.

[Vince Russo]

Yeah, got you. Okay. I was just curious about that.

[Steve Austin]

Here we go. Tell me if this is true. Vince, during the Monday night wars, why were you against Jim Ross doing commentary? And what was the hardest sell to Vince McMahon in terms of creative. There's two questions. That's from one, but were you against Jim Ross doing commentary?

[Vince Russo]

Steve, this is, this is like, this is so hard because, I mean, I, this, this is a hard story to tell, but, but I'm going to tell you, all right? And you know, I'm gonna be on Jim show later on in the summer and I mean, I'll be happy to talk to him about it. You know, the truth, Steve, Jr. Just had, I think, I think it was his second bout with Bell's palsy, right? And it was still very noticeable, you know what I mean? So I'll never forget we were at our production meeting prior to one of the pay per views, and during the meeting, Jim was lobbying for going on air and doing the commentary. Okay, Now, Steve, I'm sitting there and this is where almost the fan kicked in, you know, because I could see with my own two eyes, you know, Jim was still struggling with the Bell's palsy and he wanted to go out there probably prematurely because he loved it so much. But I knew as a fan, I did not want to, I, I did not want the fans to see Junior this way. I, I just did not. It was, it was breaking my heart, you know. So Steve, after the meeting, okay, you know, when he was really lobbying to go on the air, I kept Junior after the meeting, outside Steve of the death of Owen. And we all know what we went through that moment was the second most difficult moment I ever had in the wrestling business because I had Jim Ross there. And I start crying. I mean, I'm weeping like a baby. And I mean. And I had to tell Jim, as a fan and the millions of fans that he has, I had to basically say, jim, I don't think the fans want to see you this way. This isn't like they want to see Jim Ross. And tears are pouring out of my eyes, Steve, because I was just thinking about it now. It was so hard. So if that was the time, that, if there was a time I didn't want JR on color, that was the time. Because I didn't think he was ready for it because of his condition.

[Steve Austin]

Right. You know, you said that that was the second hardest thing you had to deal with, and the first was the death of Owen Hart. And man, I just wanted to keep the conversation moving. But you brought that up that night in Kemper Arena. The latch broke and then Owen comes down and dies. It was a bad moment for everybody. Everybody. But was it so much worse for you? Was it your idea to come from the rafters? Is that why you took it so hard?

[Vince Russo]

Steve, you know, bro, I'm a firm believer in God, you know, I mean, I'll just say that. And I became a Christian, you know, about 12 years ago. It changed my life. I'm not going to get into that, but I am a firm believer of things happen, man. You know, we have our destiny. We, you know, our end date is written in a book. We don't know why. I don't. Steve, you probably don't even know this story. But, but I mean, I have told it on a few occasions. Do you remember, Steve, who is the guy, the, the buildings manager that was there for Steve Taylor?

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Vince Russo]

Okay, Steve, this is a honest to God true story. The pay per view is written. Okay, I'm at my desk. It's probably Thursday, Friday afternoon before the Sunday Pay per View. The show is written. I'm dotting the I's and crossing the T's. Okay. I get a call from Steve Taylor. Okay. Steve says to me, vince, the guys who repel Sting at WCW are going to be at the pay per view. They were wondering if there is anything they could do so they could show us their work and what they would be able to do for the wwe. So, Steve, I looked down my format, okay? And I'm looking down my format. Well, Steve, let me take a look at the show. I'm looking down the format and there I see the Blue Blazer So now in my mind, I'm thinking of Owen, and I'm thinking, wow, this would really be a spectacular entrance for Owen. This will be good for Owen. This will make Owen look great. It makes sense because he's a superhero. So nonchalantly, I said to Steve Taylor, I said, steve, why not Owen? He's going to be the Blue Blazes Sunday night. It kind of works. So, you know, Steve said, you know, okay, you know, I'll talk to them and. And that's what we'll do. So the point is, you know, Steve, it was never written into the original show. It was never a part of the show. It was never important to the show. That night, Steve, I saw Owen. I'll never forget it, bro. He was in his jumpsuit, and he was getting a cup of coffee, okay? He had rehearsed it. So I was like, owen, how'd everything go? You know? So Owen looked at me, he goes, evans, everything went great. We rehearsed it. No problem. There's only one thing I ask you, and I say, what is that, Owen? He said, can we do my entrance first instead of the Godfather? Because if we do the Godfather first and then I come down, I'm gonna be a sitting pinata for the Godfather, right? So I said, owen, of course, bro. That. That makes all the sense in the world. No problem. So we went ahead and changed the entrances. But, I mean, Steve, if at any time Owen would have said to me, vince, I'm uncomfortable with it. I'm afraid of heights. I rehearsed it. I don't feel comfortable. I'm afraid anything it would have never happened with that wasn't originally written into the show. And that's why I say, you know, we can't. We can't explain things that happen. But the way that incident. What. The way it unfolded. Wow. You know, I mean, I. Every time I think of that, it's. I don't know what to say.

[Steve Austin]

You know, man, we were there at the arena, and it was Kansas City, Kemper arena, and I was working with Undertaker on last. And then we got the news, you know, what had just happened. We weren't around a monitor. We were in the back just shooting a breeze. Were you watching the monitor when it happened? I mean, what was the state of the panic or emergency when he actually fell?

[Vince Russo]

I don't think I was by the monitor, but I just remember hearing Bruce Pritchett say, owen felt fell. I. I mean, that. That's all I. I remember, you know? And, I mean, even at that point, Steve like, it doesn't. You know, the. The. The. The tragedy of it still doesn't sink in, you know, like, okay, Owen fell. You're not thinking Owen fell 100ft, whatever it was, from the top of the can. I mean, that. That's not what you're thinking. And then, you know, as. As. As things progressed and you realized what. What happened, you know, and I'll never forget, you know, Shane was the one that came to me and whispered in my ear, you know, he. You know, Shane told me, you know, he said. You know, he said, oh, it didn't make it. And, you know, how. How does that compute? You know what I mean? And that. That's why, like, you know, when you hear everybody about, you know, Vince stopping the show, how do you think rational, you know, something like that, which you never in a million years would you think could happen or would even imagine would happen to have a clear head in. Okay, we're gonna stop the show now or we're gonna run this. You know? Are you kidding me? It was such shock, you know, in that moment. And, man, I remember, Steve, like, there are so many vivid things I remember. I remember coming calling my wife that night, bawling my eyes out, not wanting to be a part of the business anymore, just wanting to be done with it. I remember the next day, and this meant. You know, this meant so much to me. I remember the next day, you know, when I was just out of it at TV and the show had to go on, you know, and I was just out of it. And I remember you. You came up to me and you said, you know, Vince, you said, you know, it's. It's not your fault. And, bro, I'll never forget that, because coming from you, like, that meant everything to me. But, you know, Steve, and again, it's like, you know, I know, you know, you said earlier in this interview, you know, like, you know, you and Jim Cornett are close friends, but, you know, Steve, you know, decades later, you know, when I hear the Jim Cornettes and the Roddy Pipers of, you know, Vince Russo killed. Oh, you know, bro, I don't care how much attention you want to bring upon yourself, but to say that about another human being. And Steve, you know, I know that, you know, you and Owen, like, professionally, there were differences. And I mean, I know that. But Steve, you know, the human being that that freaking guy was and how everybody probably loved him more than. Than anybody else.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Vince Russo]

And. And to be accused of that by guys like Piper and. And Cornette, to me, bro, that, that's. That's just the lowest of all lows, man. It's just. That's. That's almost unforgivable to me.

[Steve Austin]

You know, it was the worst night I've ever had, been around in the business of pro wrestling. But the next day at St. Louis, you know, trying to do that Monday night Raw in the Kill center, and it was. It was very strange. Obviously, everybody's still reeling from the fact that Owen had just died the night before, but then trying to put on a show and, you know, the fans know, you know, really how to act. I mean, some of them were wanting to see a wrestling show and, you know, some of them truly understood, you know, what we're trying to do. But it was a tough position to be in from a performance standpoint when, you know, a lot of the audience is there to be revved up and watch wrestling. But, man, there wasn't. There was a. I think there was a couple of matches that night, and I went on record and said I didn't want to wrestle, but that was a very, very interesting experience there at the Keel Center.

[Vince Russo]

Steve. I remember when I first arrived at that Keel center the next day, and, like, I was a zombie. And I mean, you. You were there to conference and that was great. But I'll never forget, somehow, some way, I don't remember exactly where it got back to me that the show was going to go on business as usual. And I remember going to Vince and Kevin. They were together at the time, and I said to them, if this show tonight goes on business as usual, I said, I am going home right now and never coming back. I said that that's not a threat. I said, there's no way in the world that we're going on there and out there and shooting a regular show like nothing happened. And, you know, thankfully, you know, that night, you know, all the boys got to pay their respects to Owen. You know, it was very special. It should have been done that way. And I mean, I'm just. I'm really glad it was, you know.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah. But anyway, I mean, man, that was a. That was an extremely rough Sunday night. It was an extremely rough Monday. And then business went on. I mean, we went back on the road and we started doing our thing. One last question. When you finally did leave WWF in what, 99.

[Vince Russo]

Yeah, 99.

[Steve Austin]

What caused your exit from the company at that time?

[Vince Russo]

Well, Steve, it was one thing, and it was. It was real, real simple at the time. We just started smackdown. Okay. You know, Ed was writing with me at the time, it was just me and Ed. It was a two man team. You know, we were never privy to the smackdown conversations going on. We were never asked, do you two guys think you can write another show? You know, never that, you know, so all of a sudden, you know, two weeks before we're hit with, we're having, you know, the, you know, show on Thursday nights. Now you guys are going to have to write two shows. Okay, first of all, there was never an increase in money, and I don't want to say that was an issue because I think Vince would have given us an increase in money. I don't want to say that. But now, Steve, when you take as much, you know, love in the show as I did, and you poured everything into it to now do that over two shows, just emotionally, physically, mentally, everything was being taken from me.

[Steve Austin]

Right, right.

[Vince Russo]

So, Steve, I set up a meeting with Vince and I went into Vince's office, okay? And, you know, once again, bro, I broke down and I just said, vince, I can't do this anymore. It's way too much, you know, the love and the attention and everything I put into RAW to now do this again. I said, I just, I can't do this anymore. And what happened, you know, Steve, was, and you'll appreciate this, at the time, I was spending every second of every day for Vince, okay? My wife, who's from Indiana, we were living in Connecticut and she was raising the kids on her own. She was alone. I was never home, right? So I said to Vince, I said, okay, Vince, look, if this is the way it's going to be, I said, I'd like my wife to be able to move my family back to Indiana so my wife can have family there because I'm never home. If I got to fly back and forth on the weekends, that's what I'll do, right, bro? He looked me dead in the eye, okay? And he said to me, he said, vince, I don't know what the problem is. I pay you enough money now that you should be able to hire a nanny to take care of your kids. Steve, as an Italian guy from New York, when those words came out of his mouth, that was the end. There was no discussion. There was no turning back when he showed me he cared that little about me and my family. And again, being a proud Italian, when families, everything, it was over. That day. I was on the phone with JJ Dillon over at wcw.

[Steve Austin]

So how long did it take you to get gone? And did you. Did you say at that point, hey, I'm out of here or did you go do what you had to do and then give him your notice?

[Vince Russo]

I did. I did what I had to do and then I gave him. But I also knew, Steve. I mean, I knew in my mind once I set foot on that plane to go to Atlanta, there was no turning back. I mean, bro, they could have offered me a thousand dollars a week and I was taking it. There was no turning back. But I mean, you know, bro, it's like after everything of myself I had given him to get that kind of it just that, that was for me, man.

[Steve Austin]

That's it, right. Hey man, I see we're looking at each other on video. You people out there listening, just hearing the audio. You got a picture of the great one and only John Wayne behind you.

[Vince Russo]

There he is. Well, actually my kids gave me that for, for Christmas one year. But every time I see John Wayne, you got to think of J. Yeah, you gotta think of JR With John Wayne, man.

[Steve Austin]

One time I was filming in Nash Bridges in San Francisco and just out of the blue, I know how big of a fan Jim Ross is of John Wayne and Mickey Mantle. So there's this high end place, memorabilia place. Anyway, I got him this badass real deal Mickey Mantle autograph with this big poster. And so just on a sly, I sent it to his address from San Francisco. At the same time he had bought me this badass black and white picture of John Wayne, which was a real deal signature, and sent that to me. So our packages crossed in the mail and all of a sudden I didn't know he was sending me anything and he didn't know I was sending him anything. So I got that John Wayne picture with autographed card down at my ranch in South Texas at Brokersko Ranch. And. And Jim has that Mickey Mantle picture I sent him. But yeah, you got to think about Jim Ross when you think about the one and only Duke. And don't bring up Bruce Dern, the guy who shot him in the back in the Cowboys. To this day I think if Jim Ross met Bruce Dern in person for a shoot, he wouldn't have anything good to say to him. Hey man, Vince, I appreciate it was really, really good talking to you and catching up to you. And again, like I said, last week we stayed within the attitude era. We talked WWF and we just cover some broad basis. I'd love to have you back and come back and. And talk about your time in WCW and then down there in tna.

[Vince Russo]

I'd love to, man. Anytime. This was, I mean, Steve, when when, when you private message me yesterday. I mean that really, really meant a lot. I mean as there's so much history and good, good memories in my life, you know surrounded around you and you know, it just it, you know doing this today really meant a lot to me.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I had a good time talking to you as well and I've shared lot of a the people that are going to enjoy listening to last week's podcast this one as well. And then again we'll come back in a couple weeks and we'll do WCW and we'll talk about TNA and all the stuff that went down over there because you got a lot more stories to tell. We've only just started.

[Vince Russo]

I'll be there.

[Steve Austin]

Thank you for joining us for another classic episode of the Steve Austin Show.

[Vince Russo]

Please leave a rating and review on.

[Steve Austin]

Apple Podcasts and tell your friends. For more Steve Austin show, go to podcast1.com that's podcastone.com.

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