Jerry "The King" Lawler Part One - SAS CLASSIC

Summary

The Steve Austin Show

Episode: Jerry "The King" Lawler Part One – SAS CLASSIC
Date: September 16, 2025
Host: Steve Austin
Guest: Jerry "The King" Lawler
Location: Hollywood, CA

---

Episode Overview

In this classic episode, Steve Austin welcomes legendary wrestling icon Jerry "The King" Lawler for an in-depth, wide-ranging conversation. Together, they delve into the gritty realities of the wrestling business—past and present—highlighting financial wisdom, territory struggles, iconic promos, behind-the-scenes stories, Lawler’s Batmobile obsession, the evolution of kayfabe, and Lawler’s harrowing on-air heart attack. The tone is candid, nostalgic, and laced with humor, capturing a lively, honest exchange between two veterans who fundamentally shaped modern professional wrestling.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Kicking Things Off: Car Talk & Frugality

• Steve’s “Frugal Sombitch” Story (00:19–04:44):
  • Austin opens with his car troubles and laments being too cheap to replace his specialty tires:
    • “Me being the cheap sombitch that I am, the person that likes to save money because there’s still plenty of tread on my tire.” (00:37)
  • Mo Darwich joins the banter, comparing mechanics to “bad dentists.”
  • The conversation shifts to the importance of saving money in wrestling—a theme that recurs throughout the episode.

---

2. DDP Yoga & Living Healthy on the Road

• Yoga Banter (02:58–04:44):
  • Austin quizzes Mo about DDP Yoga, delivered with DDP’s signature self-promotion.
  • Lawler interjects, and Austin notes the challenge even he found it to be:
    • “Make no mistake about it. I did his workout with him, and it kicked my ass.” (04:08)

---

3. Jerry Lawler’s Batmobile (His “Crazy” Purchase)

• Lawler’s Batmobile Acquisition (04:44–10:15):
  • Lawler reveals he recently bought an exact replica of the iconic 1966 Batmobile:
    • “If you remember back from 1966, the old Adam West TV show, Batman... it’s an exact replica.” (05:03)
  • Details how he negotiated the deal after seeing the car at a convention and meeting its builder.
  • Talk of wrestling’s lack of pensions or benefits prompts them both to stress the importance of saving:
    • “It’s not what you make, it’s what you save.” (Lawler quoting Jackie Fargo, 10:05)

---

4. The Wrestling Business: Payoffs, Poverty, and Survival

• Living Cash-Only and Early Struggles (10:15–14:59):
  • Austin and Lawler recall the mentality of paying cash for homes to protect themselves from industry instability:
    • “Back in the day, the thing to do when you had enough to buy a house, you paid cash money for it... when you bought something, you paid cash.” (10:15)
  • Lawler recollects earning “$1,000 a week” as the career benchmark back then:
    • “If you ever made a thousand-dollar week... you knew you had made it.” (11:41)
  • Both reminisce about tiny paychecks—sometimes $15–$20 per night—barely covering gas.

---

5. The Infamous Tennessee Territory & Learning the Hard Way

• Low Pay, High Risk (12:25–15:38):
  • Stories about Jerry Jarrett, Nick Goulis (infamous for bad payoffs), and the tough business environment.
  • Austin’s tale about challenging his “$100-a-night guarantee” in Evansville and being told:
    • “Steve, the territory’s down... if you gotta go down the road, I understand.” (14:20)
  • Both highlight the precariousness of wrestling territories in the pre-national era.

---

6. Kayfabe, Exposes, and Protecting the Business

• Stossel, Schultz, and Media Exposes (19:57–24:07 & 22:13):
  • Lawler recounts the culture around “protecting” wrestling’s legitimacy—discussing Dr. D. David Schultz slapping John Stossel:
    • “He slapped him right in the ear and I guess broke John Stossel’s eardrum...” (20:33)
  • Reflections on the outrage over various TV exposes (Geraldo Rivera, et al.):
    • “I can remember being furious about certain things... I just looked at it as, hey, you know what? Don’t these guys have anything better to do than to go out and just intentionally try to damage somebody’s business or somebody’s livelihood?” (22:58)

---

7. Dirt Sheets and the Information Underground

• Leaking Info and Locker Room Paranoia (24:07–26:11):
  • Austin and Lawler discuss the early days of wrestling newsletters (“dirt sheets”), secrecy, and how wrestlers reacted.
  • Lawler:
    • “Everybody, you know, close to the business would just hit the ceiling... It all had to come from the boys.” (24:58)
  • Story of Eddie Gilbert being suspected of leaking info and the unique mentor/mentee dynamic in Memphis.

---

8. Pain, Pills, and the Toll of the Road

• Drug Use in Wrestling (29:06–34:16):
  • Lawler candidly discusses Eddie Gilbert’s death, Somas, and how wrestlers didn’t see muscle relaxers as “drugs.”
    • “You could not get any one of those guys to say, oh yeah, I’m on drugs because they have Soma... You feel like you’re invincible.” (28:55)
  • Lawler’s own lifelong “Straight Edge” path:
    • “Never in my life, had a sip, not even a taste of beer, wine, whiskey, any alcohol, never taken any drugs...” (32:01)
    • “I was Straight Edge before CM Punk.” (31:49)
  • Emphasizes that clean living contributed to his health and career longevity.

---

9. Lawler’s Routine and Avoiding the Party Life

• Post-Match Rituals (36:01–37:30):
  • Instead of partying, Lawler drove home listening to Cleveland Indians baseball, fast food in tow:
    • “I would jump in my car immediately... tune in the Cleveland Indians baseball game... drink a Diet Coke... and listen all the way home.” (36:18)
  • His friends were outside the wrestling business, and he avoided bars and clubs.

---

10. Lawler’s Heart Attack on Live Television

• Heart Attack on Raw (37:30–45:34):
  • Lawler recounts his cardiac arrest during the September 10, 2012 episode of WWE Raw:
    • “It was as if I’m watching that match and I blink my eyes, and when I open them again, I was in the hospital with a ventilator down my throat...” (39:12)
    • He cites trauma from Dolph Ziggler’s diving elbows as a possible trigger and describes waking up with no memory of the incident.
    • Praises the WWE ringside doctor and paramedics who performed relentless CPR:
      • “They worked on me and gave me CPR for 20 straight minutes until they finally hit me with the defibrillator... seven times before they got my heart started again.” (40:38)
    • Lawler feels fully recovered and eager to wrestle again:
      • “Absolutely feel 100%. As a matter of fact, I want to go in and sit down with Vince and say, hey, I want to come back and do something on the show...” (45:18)

---

11. Lawler’s Philosophy and Promo Artistry

• On Commentary and Promos (45:43–59:34):
  • Lawler did not set out to be a commentator; he was brought in after Randy Savage’s abrupt WCW departure.
  • Advocacy for quick wit and storytelling in promos:
    • “All I can do, I can just look back and think of the guys... that’s who I tried to emulate. The main one was my mentor, Jackie Fargo...” (48:46)
    • “Personal issues draw money.” (Lawler quoting a sign in Jerry Jarrett’s office, 49:52)
  • Austin lauds Lawler as one of the best promo guys:
    • “I always put you in the top five because of the way you could break down a story, lay out the situation, talk about your guy, put him over, sell the situation, the title at stake or whatever. I always thought you got a hell of a promo.” (48:06)
  • Lawler extols Terry Funk, Dusty Rhodes, The Rock, and Austin himself as promo greats.
  • Preparation: Lawler wrote bullet points and full promos, often rehearsing them:
    • “I would sit down and I would write out my interviews on Friday night... and sometimes practice it in a mirror...” (57:29)
    • Critiques scripted promos today—calls for authenticity and believing your words.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Saving:

  • Lawler: “It’s not what you make, it’s what you save.” (10:05)

• On Suffering in the Territories:

  • Lawler: “Those payoffs barely cover your gas and expenses to get to and from the town. You’re almost wrestling for nothing.” (13:30)

• On Kayfabe and Exposes:

  • Austin: “It’d be like you’re going and blowing the lid off all David Copperfield stuff, but doing it in a condescending manner... Always chat my ass.” (24:07)

• On Lawler’s Heart Attack:

  • Lawler: “I blinked my eyes, and when I opened them again, I was in the hospital with a ventilator down my throat...it was two days later.” (39:12)

• Personal Issues Draw Money:

  • Lawler: “He had a big sign hanging in his office that said, ‘Personal issues draw money.’” (49:52)

• On Being “Straight Edge Before Punk”:

  • Lawler: “That’s absolutely right. I mean, I like to tell people nowadays, you know, I was, what do they call it, Straight Edge, way before CM Punk.” (31:49)

• On Great Promos:

  • Lawler: “My, maybe my all time favorite was Terry Funk...Terry Funk’s interviews were personal. They were hilarious...” (52:38–53:47)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:19–04:44: Steve’s car trouble & frugality
• 04:44–10:15: Lawler’s Batmobile story & wrestling finances
• 10:15–14:59: Early wrestling business struggles and saving strategies
• 19:57–22:13: Dr. D. David Schultz & John Stossel incident
• 22:13–24:07: Media exposes, kayfabe, and wrestling secrecy
• 24:07–26:11: Dirt sheets, locker room paranoia, Eddie Gilbert story
• 29:06–34:16: Painkillers, Eddie Gilbert’s death, Lawler’s “straight edge” living
• 37:30–45:34: Lawler’s WWE heart attack: minute-by-minute account and aftermath
• 45:43–57:29: Commentating, promo philosophy, best talkers, and storytelling
• 57:29–59:34: Promo preparation, the problem with scripted promos
• 59:34–end: Reflections on changing promo culture, the need for authenticity

---

Summary

This episode shines as much for its behind-the-scenes candor as for its reverent nostalgia. Steve Austin and Jerry Lawler swap stories of hard lessons and triumphs, echoing a mutual respect for the authenticity and grit that defined their era. Fans get a roadmap to the old-school wrestler’s mentality, a primer on promo mastery, and an intimate account of surviving beyond-the-ring threats. Lawler’s wit and Austin’s rolling banter create a must-listen, loaded with hard-won lessons and classic wrestling lore.

Transcript

[Steve Austin (Host)]

The following Program is a podcast ONE.com production from Hollywood, California, by way of the Broken Skull Ranch and an occasional side trip to Mexico. This is the Steve Austin Show.

[Steve Austin]

Give me a hell yeah.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Yeah.

[Steve Austin (Host)]

Now from the onit.com Total Human Optimization Studio, here's Steve Austin.

[Steve Austin]

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Steve Austin Show. Sitting here in Hollywood, California, with Mo Darwich and my trusty dog, Hershey the wonder dog. She rode shotgun with me in 96 suburban today. That some is still pulling to the right. Mow I'm mattering the hornet at my mechanic.

[Mo Darwich]

I thought you got that fixed in for the second time.

[Steve Austin]

For the second time I did. And now he's telling me it's my tires. I've got a bad tire on that thing and there's too much tread on them. Me being the cheap. Some bitch that I am, the person that likes to save money because there's still plenty of tread on my tire. I can't just go and swap out four new tires because they're kind of those specialty treads and you can't rotate them because you can't reverse the rotation. So I'm kind of don't know where to shit or wind my watch. But being the frugal sombitch that I am, I'm going to keep staying the course. It's going to keep right now. Still pulls to the left. It used to pull to the right. And it is what it is, man.

[Mo Darwich]

Do you trust your mechanic? Because I feel like mechanics sometimes they screw you on this. They screw. They're like a bad dentist, you know, there's always something wrong with your mouth and they always want to fix something.

[Steve Austin]

You know, Back in Texas, I had a guy, I always took my stuff, too. Could trust him implicitly. And the same with this guy. I trust him 100% because they took it back the second time and worked on it for four or five, five hours. Didn't charge me a dime. You know, the other labor was the other labor. I replaced the steering shaft there in the steering wheel column. And so I don't know. I don't know where to. You know, I got to run them tires out. So I got to drive back and forth to Texas while my Suburban still pulls to the left. So I'm a little pissed off about that.

[Mo Darwich]

You know, I saw there's some Beverly Hills decals on that car. That's a fancy mobile you got there.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I traded right for it. I got it on a dime. That's why I'm happy with it. I Love that damn supercharger, but I can't stand when something pulls to the left.

[Mo Darwich]

Yeah, might be cursed.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

I don't know, man.

[Steve Austin]

What's going on with you? You look, you look pretty, you know, I've been tired. Are you frazzled?

[Mo Darwich]

You know, I've been hanging here. Frazzled a little, A little exhausted, but I'm getting there, man. I took my, you know, my vitamins this morning. I should be good to go.

[Steve Austin]

I took an alpha brain with a couple of cups of coffee this morning and took an alpha brain. Right before I come up here to talk to our guest today. Joining us here in a minute is going to be Jerry Lawler, the King. One of my favorites of all time. And I'm still a little bleary eyed. I stayed up till about 12 last night watching the Jerry Lawler, Andy Kaufman feud and bringing myself up to speed with that. I watched about 20 matches. I feel like I've been wrestling with Jerry for about a 60 minute Broadway, maybe five in a row. And I've got some stories about working with Jerry Lawler, but I don't know. Tomorrow's Friday. As we speak, as you download this, I don't know what day it is, but as me and Mo are talking, it's Thursday and I just started my diet. So since it's Thursday, I thought you were on.

[Mo Darwich]

You've been on a diet.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, I know, but Norm keeps inviting me out on the boat. I keep tossing down the Coldwoods because he's driving the damn thing and only live a half mile from the marina. So I've been trying to get on a diet. But that brings me to my next point. We had a guest on the show a few weeks ago, Diamond Dallas Page. And I handed over to you last week the DDP yoga DVDs and T shirts. You're not wearing the T shirts. So how's the DDP yoga program going for you?

[Mo Darwich]

You know, it is really good. I enjoyed it. I take, I took the first couple of courses right there. It's interesting, it's yoga, but it's more of a power yoga. And he does all these different things, like you gotta hulk it out, you know, it's like you do, you do the diamond, you pull it back, you.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Reach all the way back and then.

[Steve Austin]

You hulk it out. Leave it to DDP to put the self promotional aspect of the diamond in which he used to be the diamond cutter, which is part of his finish. The consummate BS artist. One of my best friends. Businessman man, trying to implement something from the Past into his present, which is smart, but nonetheless, when you're doing a diamond cutter, you know, it just. It's funny.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Yeah. But no, it's.

[Steve Austin]

Make no mistake about it. I did his workout with him, and it kicked my ass. So keep doing it. I'm going to start pretty quick. I'm tied up right now trying to bust out in the gym. I'm doing an hour of cardio hour in the gym. I ain't got time to start it. You're the human guinea pig on the DDP yoga program. So. Hey, man, I'll tell you what. I was really excited about getting up today and coming to talk to Jerry Lawler, our guest today here on the show. I'm a big fan of his work. To me, he's one of the greatest talkers in the history of the business. He was inducted into the hall of fame for WWE March 31st in 2007. So. Hey, Jerry, how are you, man? Welcome to the show.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, Steve, I'm doing great. It's a pleasure to be on here with you. And you talked about your ride early on in the show, and I just want to get out of the way since we're talking about vehicles that I just made a major purchase last week. I bought a Batmobile.

[Steve Austin]

What is a Batmobile?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

A Batmobile is, if you remember, back from 1966, the old Adam West TV show, Batman. Yeah, It's. It's an exact replica of that Batmobile.

[Steve Austin]

Where did you find that?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Around town the other night. And fortunately, it doesn't pull to the left, but it's a little. It's a little loud, but it's. I was touring around town in my Batmobile and getting. Getting quite a bit of attention the other day. So sometimes we'll have to get the Batmobile together with your Suburban, and maybe we'll have a drag race or something.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I don't know what you got under the hood of that thing. I can't say we'll do it for pink slips, but we can dance here and do it for fun.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

It's built on a 1979 Camaro, and it's got a 350 engine, and it's pretty awesome. It'll get up and go. A flame doesn't shoot out the back of it yet, but it'll make some noise and move on down the road.

[Steve Austin]

Where did you find a replica of the Batman car? Because I'm a huge fan, but when you said Batmobile, I mean, I only knew the one that they used on the show or however many they used on the show. So how many Batmobile clones or replicas are floating around that you may find.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

That I don't know the exact answer to? But you're right. George Barris built the original Batmobile that was used back in the show in 1966 that Adam west drove around, and that. That original car just sold a few months ago for four and a half million dollars. I believe that four and a half million dollars for that. For that Batmobile. There's a guy in. There's a guy that lives in Johnson, Tennessee. His name is Matt Dollar, and he has built about. He has built about six of these. I mean, identical replicas to this car. And I was up at a. I was up doing a show in Knoxville called a fanboy convention, and Adam west was there appearing at the show. And this guy, apparently, he also makes the. The mask and the cowls for Adam west that are exact replicas of the mask, that mask that he wore during the show. And then apparently Adam signs them, and they sell those for about $600 on Adam's website. But anyway, this guy brings the Batmobile around whenever some of the shows that Adam west appears at. And I was on the show and I saw the Batmobile. My booth where I was signing, matter of fact, Diamond Dallas Page was there as well, and I was right across from the Batmobile. So I just, you know, I saw this thing. I'm looking at it for three straight days there, and I just. I was a huge fan, like you said, you were in the back of the old original Batman show.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

And so anyway, I went over and I talked to Matt a little bit and got to know him. He gave me his card. And just a few. A couple of weeks ago, I get a call out of the blue from him. And apparently he takes care of his dad up in Johnson City, Tennessee. And his dad's got to be put in a nursing home, and he's got Alzheimer's. And the guy was just, you know, maybe needing some extra money and just happened to catch him at the right time. And he said, man, I'll make you a heck of a deal on that car that was at the show. And so I couldn't turn it down. I said, okay. And he drove it. Well, he didn't drive it. He put it on the back of a car hauler and drove it down here. And next thing you know, I look out my driveway and there's the Batmobile.

[Steve Austin]

Well, how's the body work on that thing with the fins and all the molding? Lots of fiberglass work. Did they do a good job on it?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh, my gosh, it's fabulous. It's just, I mean, it's, it's amazing. It's just exactly like the Batmobile that you saw in the TV show. You couldn't tell it apart. I mean, all the bells and whistles. And I'm. Actually, there's you, you know, Ellis, of course, that works for wwe. You know, the stunt guy, he wants me to bring it down to Atlanta and put it in his shop. He said he'll make it where he'll shoot a flame out the back of it and do, you know, a little extra odds and ends on it and make it just exactly like the original.

[Steve Austin]

Batmobile, you know, the flame shooting out the back end. I think I'd leave that one alone. It's your car. I'm not asking you the dollar amount, but I know you saved your money. You were the one of the guys that saved your money throughout your career. You got a good deal on it. It wasn't too God awful exciting.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

I did get a real good deal. I saved my money. But I'm exactly like you. I heard you say we're both, I like to use the term frugal. You know, we don't like to go and throw our money around. And that's, you know, a lot of people, a lot of people don't realize in the wrestling business and the reason so many guys, you know, wind up in trouble at the end of their career is because, you know, we don't have those, we don't have the pension plan and we don't have a, you know, we don't have any insurance programs or any kind of. If you don't save your money, man, when your career is over, you look around and you don't have any more income all of a sudden and you're in trouble, you know, so. But, and I learned that early on from my mentor, Jackie Fargo. He told me, he said the same words that you said early on. It's not what you make, it's what you save. And so, yeah, I did save my money. And I'm, you know, I'm still, of course, still gainfully employed by the wwe, thank goodness. But I just don't go out and throw, you know, I wouldn't go out and just make a bunch of big crazy, wild purchases and everything, but this was just something that I really loved. And, you know, I paid considerably less than the four point or $4.5 million that the original. A lot less.

[Steve Austin]

But you know, that's the thing, you got to save your money. And I tell everybody it doesn't matter what you do, you got to save your money. But coming up in the wrestling business, as you well know, you've been in it forever and I'm right behind you. But you grow up, I mean, when you get in the business, you achieve what we call wrestler's mentality, where when you buy that first house or that second house, whatever, you always buy it in cash because you didn't know when you were going to get fired, you didn't know when the territory was going to close down, didn't know what was going to happen, didn't know when you're going to go down with an injury. So back in the day, the thing to do when you had enough to buy a house, you paid cash money for it. These days everybody's using them as a write off. But back in the day, that, that's just the way it was when you bought something, you paid cash. Was that the way it was with you?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh, absolutely. And if you remember, Steve, well, like you said, I mean, I started in this crazy business 43 years ago. You know, I had my first match in December of 1970, so that's a long time ago. And the business was significantly different then. I mean, you know, the guys were, the people perceived the wrestlers as being just as big of stars as they were now. But of course it was on a more regional basis. There wasn't that national or world television exposure like we have now. But, but I can remember when the big deal, you knew you had arrived. And I don't know if this was your case or not, but if you ever made a thousand dollar week go when you got in the business, if.

[Steve Austin]

You, that was the benchmark dollars in.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

A week, you, you knew you had made it, you know, and that was, that was, I, I can still, I can still remember. And now, you know, I mean, now that's just like the, the paydays and the payoffs now are just so astronomical. It's just amazing, you know, with guys like, well, I mean, I don't know how many of the top guys, John Cena, Randy Orton, all the guys making millions and millions of dollars a year now, you know, it's just, it's, it's just, it's just so different. But I mean, like you said when you were, back when you were struggling to make $1,000 a week and to do that sometimes, you know, Steve, we wrestle 10 times a week, every single day and sometimes a couple of double Shots and triple shots on TV on Saturday, you know, things like that. But yeah, $1,000 in a week was amazing back then.

[Steve Austin]

I remember back in the day when I'd get my paychecks there and we always got paid in Evansville, Indiana. And you know the deal, everybody had their cubicles back there in that dressing room and I was getting my paychecks. And most time I never broke double digits. You know, every now and then I'd get into triple digits and you know, dude, when you're making 15 and $20 a night and you know, the road schedule, you know, the miles, it gets pretty tough.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

And there was a time, you know what, and I always like to say that was when Jerry Jarrett was making the payoffs. Well, Jerry always made the payoffs. Yeah. And you know, to be fair to Jerry, he came up, you know, he came up under the tutelage of Nick Goulas, right, who was the original promoter in the Tennessee territory. And Nick Goulas was infamous in the wrestling business for being the, just being the worst payoff guy in history. You know, I mean, he would bring four guys up from Mexico and just, you know, they would, they would want to leave, but then they would, you know, he would keep us so broke that they couldn't leave. So it was just, it was just that's what influenced Jerry. And like I said, that went on through, you know, for a long time the Tennessee Territory had a bad rep for being a. Not a place where you're going to make a lot of money. You know, you'd be lucky. Like you said in those days, those payoffs barely cover your gas and expenses to get to and from the town. You're almost wrestling for nothing.

[Steve Austin]

Well, basically it was, I mean, if it hadn't been for Dutch and Chris Champion riding with me, they were putting gas in the car. I was simply putting miles on my car. And of course I was getting the education of talking wrestling to the show and back. But you know, hell, things are pretty tough. I remember on my return trip they brought me back into the Tennessee Territory and Jerry Jarrett put me on a hundred dollar a night guarantee. I thought I had hit the big time.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

You're not lying.

[Steve Austin]

I hadn't been in the business too long and then, you know, things were going along pretty good and I was working about five, six days a week. So I still never hit that thousand dollar mark. One time we were there in Evansville, Indiana, got the paychecks and oh, you know, normally I should see a row of one hundreds for that hundred Dollar guarantee. And I did not. And I said, oh, man. So I got to talk to the man. So I said, hey, Jerry, just wanted to talk to you about this paycheck, man. I thought we had a deal here. And Jerry looked me straight in the eye. He told me the way it was, and I was a young cat in the business. He goes, steve, the territory's down. He goes, I understand, you know, we had an agreement, but if you got to go down the road, I understand. Well, boy, I was between a rock and a hard place there, Jerry. I'm trying to learn the damn business, you know. But we had a guarantee. I'm at my first, you know, major financial crisis with, you know, the promoter, owner of the territory.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Sure.

[Steve Austin]

So, man, just, you know, at the blink of an eye, I said, that's cool, Jerry. I said, no. I said, I want to keep working. You know, maybe when the territory gets better, you know, we can go back to our agreement. And he said, that's cool, Steve. So, you know, I kept my job, but it was one of those split decisions that had to be made. And, you know, we all go through that. But that was one of the crucial things. I learned a lot working in that territory, and I learned a lot working with you. But when you were talking about Nick Goulis kind of, you know, schooling Jerry Jarrett, as far as, you know, he was the first guy in Tennessee there with that territory and being so notoriously cheap with his payoffs. Did you ever get a chance to work for Paul Bosh, who was known for very good payoffs?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, you know what? Paul Bosch. I've worked a couple of shows for Paul Bosch with. I mean, I think with Gino. Her against Gino Hernandez and Tully Blanchard and some in some matches there. But I didn't really get to know him. He's really, really nice guy, but I wouldn't. I probably only worked maybe three or four shows for him.

[Steve Austin]

Hey, what'd you think about Geno back in the day when you were working with him at a young age?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh, my gosh, he was a great. A great young talent. I mean, he and Tully Blanchard together. What a. What I can remember that being. I was thinking at that time, I mean, this guy, I thought these two guys were going to be one of the top tag teams ever in wrestling. You know, I just thought they really had everything going for him, so. And speaking of, you know, speaking of Paul Bosh, I've only. Have you ever received, actually received a telegram in your life?

[Steve Austin]

No, I never have.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

I received one in My entire life, I didn't even know they still existed. But when I, When I slapped Andy, it wasn't then. It was when I gave Andy Kaufman the pile driver in the match in Memphis. You know, so few people. I mean, we. No, but we didn't let anybody in on anything that was going on. Even guys in our own territory here didn't have a clue what was going on with Andy and I. And when I gave him that pile driver and he wound up in the Memphis hospital for three days, I got an actual telegram from Paul Bosch. And it actually, it said, thank you for sticking up for our business. You did a great job and a great thing, and I want to congratulate you. And I just, I was blown away. I thought, oh, my gosh, this is from. I mean, you know, this is one of the mainstream promoters in the. In the entire country, and he's sending me a telegram about beating up Andy Kaufman. It was amazing.

[Steve Austin]

So he's thinking it was a shoot.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Yes.

[Steve Austin (Host)]

The Steve Austin Show. The Steve Austin Show.

[Adam Carolla]

Hey, it's Adam Carolla from the Adam Carolla Show. Betonline is the world's most trusted betting platform and your number one source for online betting. From the earliest odds to in game live betting, Betonline provides you with all the action and the ability to watch and bet on games as they happen. With the largest selection of odds on everything from football, NBA and college basketball as well. BetOnline has NHL, MMA and championship boxing. All your betting needs in one place. Head to Betonline today to get in on the action with America's most trusted site for online wagering. So have some fun. Make these games and these events and these combat sports a little more interesting with Betonline. Betonline, the game starts here.

[Mayra Amit]

A mochi moment from Mark who writes. I just want to thank you for making GLP1s affordable. What would have been over $1,000 a month is just $99 a month with Mochi. Money shouldn't be a barrier to healthy weight. Three months in and I have smaller jeans and a bigger wallet. You're the best. Thanks, Mark. I'm Mayra Amit, founder of Mochi Health. To find your mochi moment, visit joinmochi.com.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

Mark is a Mochi member compensated for his story.

[Mayra Amit]

I've got 20 minutes to run Club meets and it's time for a quick pre workout snack. Go go. Squeeze active fruit blend to the rescue. Made with select B vitamins to help release energy, it's an easy squeezable pouch made to Move with me. The taste good and made with real fruit. Even better. Whether I'm hitting the trail or meeting my friends on the court, this is my go to on the go snack. Quick, easy, ready when I am. When it's go time, I go with gogo Squeeze active. Snag yours on your next door run. Search for gogo Squeeze on Amazon.

[Steve Austin]

Hey, well, you know what? Along those lines, where were you when the Dr. D. David Schultz thing happened with John Stossel? He slapped the hell out of John Stossel and messed up his eardrums.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Do you remember that going down? Started right here for David. Started right here in Tennessee. Matter of fact, I helped train Jerry Jarrett and I helped train David. He started out, he was from up In Jackson, Tennessee, 70 miles north of where I'm sitting right now, here in Memphis. And just a big old raw bone country kid that, I mean, I mean, just a fun loving guy, right? Funny as heck to be around. And he just never took anything serious. But brother, he had a short fuse. I mean, he had a temper. And I don't remember where, but I remember watching, I was actually watching that on TV when he. What'd you think when he stopped, John Stosso? I thought, oh my gosh, what is it? What has he done? You know what mean? I. I thought maybe, I didn't know. That was almost like the Andy Coffin thing. I thought maybe it's a work. But then, you know, it didn't take long to realize that it wasn't and that. And that he had slapped him right in the ear and I guess broke John Stossel's eardrum and all of this sort of stuff. And I guess eventually it cost Vince McMahon a lot of money. But you know what? David Schultz, that was just the kind of guy he was.

[Steve Austin]

But that was where the business was. So back in. I mean, you know, if anybody ever said it was fake, you stood up for it. And then John Stossel, I mean, he was back there, he was a little bit cocky in the interview. And you know, Dr. D, I mean, boy, like you said, I guess he had a short fuse. But you know, Jerry, I mean, when guys in the ring are slapping each other, you know, we're very conscious of not popping a guy's ear. You always want to hit the cheek, you know, in that area or the neck, whatever. You don't want to cuff a guy on his ears. He was going for the ears in that and he was, he was dealing out some serious business because back in the day, that's what you did?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Yeah. And I think. Don't you. Don't you agree that. I think that he thought that this was going to really get him over with Vince. I think he thought, Vince, this is going to be. Vince is going to love this when I smack the heck out of this guy, you know. But of course they wound up. I remember hearing John Stossel say on a TV interview one time that he said, I got a nice villa in the south of France out of that deal.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, I bet he did. Hey, speaking of, you know, looking out for the business and protecting it, you've seen a lot of things in your 43 years in the business. Remember when, like, Geraldo Rivera and several of the other cats were starting to doing these exposes on the business of pro wrestling and kind of, you know, exposing some of the secrets. Did. What was your thinking on that? To me, I mean, it was fascinating to me, but, you know, I don't remember. I don't think I was in the business at that time. I mean, was it like they're kind of lifting the veil off of kayfabe industry and, you know, back in the day, you know, kayfabe is, you know, protecting the business. Heels and baby faces ride separately. You do not associate with each other. You not drink with each other in the bar. So when they kind of started lifting the veil of the business, what were your thoughts?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, you're right. I mean, there was a time that was. That was doing things like you mentioned riding together, a good guy or baby face or, I mean, babyface or Heel or whatever. Riding together or being seen together. You could get fired for that, you know, at one time. But then when. Then when the, you know, the secret started to get leak out different ways. Why? I honestly, I can remember being furious about certain things. I mean, yeah, that would. That would. Just the things that. The thing that really used to make me the angriest was when the. When the dirt sheet started. Do you remember the day that those things started coming out? Oh, my God. Every. Everybody. Everybody, you know, close to the business would just hit the ceiling. But it was. It was just one of those inevitable things. You just, you know, and especially then with the advent of the Internet and that sort of thing, this is just something that was. You couldn't do anything about it. But, yeah, I mean, it pissed me off. I mean, especially the things like Geraldo Rivera and, you know, I just thought. I just looked at it as, hey, you know what? Don't these guys have anything better to do than to go out and just Intentionally try to damage somebody's business or somebody's livelihood, because that's what that was to us, you know, But.

[Steve Austin]

But it. Not only that, it was a condescending tone which set me off, because you're just trying to make the business look like a bunch of low lives who are idiots. I mean, the business has always been what it is. It's entertainment. It'd be like you're going and blowing the lid off all David Copperfield stuff, but doing it in a condescending manner. We know he's not really making stuff disappear. We're not going to make him look like an idiot because he's doing it. So that. Always chat my ass. And the thing about it going back to those dart sheets, Jerry, I remember the first person who ever introduced me to those was Brian Pillman. And, you know, back in the day, when those things first came out, it was kind of like you didn't want to be caught reading one.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh, no, that was another.

[Steve Austin]

That was kayfabe. You don't get caught reading a dirt sheet. Don't let anybody know you're reading a dirt sheet. And then, you know, so I stayed away from them. But then all the other guys had all the inside information, so you had to read the dirt sheet to find out what the inside skinny was on so you could preserve your job. Right?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

And then you wanted. And you also ran to try to figure out where. Who is. Who's dealing out this information, where getting this. This stuff from. You know, that was the big talk then. I mean, it all had to come from the boys. You know, somebody was leaking out all of this information to these guys that were writing these sheets. And one of the. One of the first. You know, one of the first guys that was. That was close to one of those sheets around our territory was Eddie Gilbert. And he had. He had some close friend that was. That was putting out one of these things. And so, you know, there for a while, Eddie had. Eddie had heat. And I mean, we brought him in and sat him down and talked to him until, you know, he assured us that, hey, I'm not telling this guy this stuff, you know, but obviously somebody was some. Somewhere and not in. Just in our territory, but every territory and of course. And it still goes on today, man.

[Steve Austin]

Jerry, what was the bottom line with Eddie Gilbert? How'd it go down?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

And you know what? I don't know, other than the fact that, I mean, you know, I was. I was close to anything. It was a funny situation.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I mean, he kind of modeled his Whole work style after you, right?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

He, you know, Tommy, Eddie's father, Tommy Gilbert. I remember I started around the start in the business around the same time and it was a weird thing. And I always, I always think that Tommy sort of, sort of resented me somehow for the fact that his son grew up instead of almost idolizing Tommy, his father as a wrestler, he idolized and like you said, modeled his whole career after me. And the funny thing was then my, I have a son named Kevin that grew up and he almost, he idolized Eddie Gilbert. It was, it was a weird end. And went to work for Eddie. Even when Eddie went up and started a helping to promote up in Philadelphia, my son Kevin went up there and worked for, went up there and worked for Eddie when he could have worked here in our own territory. But Eddie was just Eddie and all of the Gilberts. I mean, his brother Doug still works for us. He got a match coming up with us later on this month down at the resorts casino. But they've, I don't know, the personality, they're just different kind of guys. Eddie was like his dad, Tommy, and the fact that he was, he was a moody kind of guy, you know, Right. Just, you had to catch him in the, if you caught him in the wrong mood, you know, things didn't go well or whatever. But I loved being around and he absolutely loved working with him because I swear it was like working, it was like working with myself. He was such a, he was such almost a clone or a mirror image of my work style and just, you know, a tremendous, tremendous talent. And I had, I honestly had no idea that, you know, that Eddie was, was. And I guess it was Soma's, you know, was, was using the, the Somas, the muscle relaxers, that sort of thing. But you know, you know what, and you know this as well as I do, Steve. We've had so many, so many deaths in the wrestling industry connected to Somas. And a lot of people say, oh, you know, these guys are all, these guys are all drug users or whatever. But the truth of the matter is, and I know it's true in the, in the case of Eddie and in all of these guys, and you didn't look at that as a drug. You looked at it simply as a muscle relaxer. I mean, you could not get any one of those guys to say, oh yeah, I'm on drugs because they have Soma. I mean, a lot of times these things were prescribed by doctors because, you know, you'd get beat up every night and you'd be hurting. You'd have aches, you'd have pains. And these guys looked at that as just a way to, you know, as a way to deal with your, with your aches and pains and, and what I think. You know, one thing, when you're in this business, you feel like you're invincible. You feel like you're Superman. Especially when you're a young kid in the business. You feel like nothing wrong can, can ever happen to you. So what happened, I think with those so much is they, they don't realize that a muscle relaxer is just that it, you know, the more you take, the more it's going to relax your muscles. But you forget that your heart is a muscle.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

You know, it's, it's the major muscle in your entire body that keeps you running. And if you take too many muscle relaxers, what happens in those cases is your heart just relaxes and relaxes and it slows down until it just stops beating. And the guys never thought about it like that.

[Steve Austin]

I'm sure it's, it was always, I think, you know, a quest for, you know, how high can you get? And you know, how high can you get? Too high. And you know, bad things happen when you reach that level. Man. I'm going to take a quick break. We're talking with Jerry the King Lawler hall of Famer and God dang, it's a hell of a cat. In general, one of my favorites of all time. We're going to continue this conversation and a hell of a lot more. Don't go anywhere. Word from the sponsors.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

A true crime podcast.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

It got me upset because this is.

[Steve Austin]

Someone'S kid and someone knows she's gone.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

That takes, takes a different approach.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

It was shocking for something like this to happen in our little town.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

Focusing on the communities affected by life shattering crimes.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

It made news throughout the entire region that these two people had been shot while they slept. In such a safe community.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

To give a new perspective on the devastation crimes can cause.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

It was shocking for something like this to happen happen in our little town.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

Featuring cases from quiet towns to bustling cities and interviewing the people closest to the case.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

My first thought was that it's an unusual location for us to have a homicide.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

Listen to the true crime podcast City Confidential and step beyond the yellow tape to learn just how far a crime can reach.

[Mo Darwich]

There are certain cases in the history.

[Steve Austin]

Of Boston that I think sort of define the city.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

I think this is one of them.

[City Confidential Podcast Narrator]

Episodes of the City Confidential podcast are available every Thursday. Available wherever you get your Podcasts.

[Steve Austin]

Welcome to the Steve Austin showing Jerry the King Lawler talking a little bit like. And I always ask, you know, I always get into this conversation with guys who have been there, done that, been down the road as long as I have, or longer, and inevitably the conversation always turns a little bit to the, the drugs and alcohol part of it, just because I'm curious to see what, you know, other people's thoughts were on the subject. Jerry, as long as I've known you, with all the traveling and everything else, you were a guy who never drank or did any drugs, correct?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

That's, that's absolutely right. I mean, I like to tell people nowadays, you know, I was, I was, what do they call it, Straight Edge, way before CM Punk.

[Steve Austin]

You were Straight Edge before Straight Edge was cool.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Exactly. And you know what, Steve? I really don't know why I can, I can look back and say a part of it, I guess, was my upbringing. My parents really were. I mean, they never really actually sat down and talked to me about drinking or which drinking was the main thing, right back in, back in the day when I was a teenager or anything. It just, it just wasn't done in my, in my house. And I knew they frowned on it. And I grew up, I was real fortunate. When I, when I grew up in the 50s and 60s, I. We had, literally, the neighborhood I lived in was, it was almost like a Leave it to Beaver environment. Right? You know, it was back in the day. My dad worked at Ford Motor Company, the assembly line, building Ford Ford cars. And my mom was a stay at home mom. I had a brother that was four years older than me. And we just grew up in a neighborhood where there were. On my particular street that we lived on in Memphis, there were 12 other boys about the same age as my brother and I. And all we did all the time was just, I mean, we just, you know, we just, we just played. We didn't, we didn't go out and get crazy. We played a lot of ball. We did wrestling, we did boxing, we did football, baseball, everything in our neighborhood together. And you know, I think usually what happens is when people fall into this stuff, it's always peer pressure and it's always, it always falls back on the crowd you hang with. And I was just fortunate enough that when I grew up, we had a bunch of guys in my neighborhood that grew up together, that they were all, you know, that we just didn't get into. We just didn't get in with the wrong crowd. We didn't do that. But never in my life, had a sip, not even a taste of beer, wine, whiskey, any alcohol, never taken any drugs, never smoked marijuana or even a cigarette at all. Never had one in my mouth. So. And you know, it's not like you said, it's not necessarily all that cool, but I do feel like it has had a lot to do with the longevity that I've had. I mean, there aren't many guys that are 63 years old that are still relevant in the business, you know, and can still climb in the ring and have a match and do all of that sort of stuff. So I think it's helped me throughout my career and, and of course I, you know, certainly didn't wind up like a lot of these guys that abused those drugs.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah. But take me through this. I mean, I certainly had, you know, part of my act as Stone Cold Steve Austin was drinking a lot of beer and I drank a lot of beer, you know, when I wasn't at work or drank whiskey. But I always kept, there was a couple of times where I was living a little fast, you know, and inevitably I slowed down, you know, and started smartening up. You don't last a long time living like I was living. But I wasn't totally, you know, batshit crazy or out of control. I was just running too fast. But help me understand how a guy who has never smoked, drank, took any pills, done anything, what are you thinking when all the boys are together and everybody's getting all shit faced and you're the only straight cat in the room, in the territory anywhere.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

You know what? I still am this way today. Never really. And I don't know if you can remember this during the, during the time that you were in our territory. I never really hung out with the boys. My friends were always guys outside the business I did. I never went to, you know, like after the matches were over, I just, I just get home as quick as I could. I never went to bars, I never hung out at clubs. I didn't do any of that. I, I mean, I would play softball or flag football during the week when other guys would be hanging out at the bars. I'd be, you know, talking with my guys that I played sports with and everything. I still play. So we got a, we had, we starting our fall softball league next Tuesday. You know, I still play every single week, softball or flag football or that sort of stuff. And I just, I just didn't hang out with the wrestlers and not, not that I thought bad of them or anything, but I just, I don't Know, I just, I just didn't think anything good could come of that.

[Steve Austin]

You've had a million matches and you've had some incredibly high profile matches. So dude, take for me coming out of the ring, it's just an adrenaline spike. It had to been the same for you. So what was your post match process?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Man, I can tell you like in the summertime, usually especially like driving back, we wrestled in Louisville or Evansville. On a Tuesday night or Wednesday night, I would jump in my car immediately and turn on the radio and tune it to 1100am, which was a clear channel radio station out of Cleveland, and tune in the Cleveland Indians baseball game. And I would listen to that all the way home, drink a Diet Coke or at that time, just a regular Coke. I'd stop at McDonald's, McDonald's, get me a couple of double cheeseburgers and a large order of fries and a big Diet Coke and listen to the Cleveland Indians all the way home. Those guys listening to those ball games at night in that clear channel radio station, I'm sure saved my life many times because it kept me awake on these long trips every single night. But I was just, you know, I was always so into other sports and everything that I just, I don't know, I just didn't take, you know, I just didn't take the time or, or get messed up and dealing with like drinking after the, after the shows or anything like that. I was just always interested in getting home as soon as I could and, and spending as much time at home, at home as possible.

[Steve Austin]

Hey man, let's talk about the heart attack on Monday Night Raw. September 10, 2012 Monday Night Raw was it soon into the broadcast, middle of the show? Take me through this. What happens? Do you start feeling dizzy? Was there any lead up to this? What happened that night?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, if anybody remembers that night, I had a match, you know, a lot of times and I love it when they do it, you know, they would include me in the show some sort of way and involve me in a match and still, and still do the commentary at the same time. So start out the show doing the commentary and then they, then they had me involved in a match where it was me and Randy Orton against CM Punk and Dolph Ziggler. And so I remember, you know, I got up and I went up and did the match and I've watched it back several times. It was a hell of a match. I mean, you know, I was, I'm always conscious of when I'm in there with those guys, you Know, you gotta hang with these young guys, man. This is a young man's business. And it's just thrill to be included in a match every now and then on here, so. But you don't want to look out of place, you know, you don't want to look like, oh, my gosh, what's this guy? What's the. Why they got this guy in there? So, you know, I'm looking at the match and I'm jumping off the. Doing dives, off the second rope and all of these sorts of things, drop kicks and that, and everything went fine in the match. I do remember Steve, and I still say that this was the partial cause of this thing. I remember. And if you watch Dolph Ziggler's matches, this guy's amazing young talent. Yeah, he is great. And he's really energetic and he really enthusiastic, and sometimes he gets a little overly enthused and. And. And he does this move where he'll drop 10 straight elbows on his opponent, you know, get you down. Well, he had me down in the middle of the ring, and he starts dropping these elbows. And I remember at about number six or seven, I'm thinking, what the hell happened to the day when we used to be able to do this and not kill our opponent, right? I actually remember thinking that because he was dropping these elbows with every bit of his weight, and I'm thinking, jesus, this guy's trying to kill me. And so, you know, he goes through 10 of those. And then. And then, of course, we finished the match and, oh, gosh, Randy Orton and I went. We won the match. And then I come back over and I sit down doing commentary, and I felt fine. Everything was. Everything was. Was great. And literally, it was. It was. It was the strangest thing. And it's still even strange to talk about it because I'm sitting there. Then I think the next match started, which was Kane and Kane and maybe Kane and Daniel Bryant against the. Oh, gosh, Titus o' Neill and Darren Young, I believe. Anyway, I remember that that match is going. And literally, Steve, I promise you, it's as if. It's as if I'm watching that match and I'm talking to Michael Cole, I'm doing the commenting, and it was as if I'm looking up at the ring and I blink my eyes, and when I open them again, I was in the hospital with a ventilator down my throat, my girlfriend at my side in Montreal, Canada, and it was two days later.

[Steve Austin]

Wow.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

I mean, I had no warning. I had no bad Feeling. You know, a lot of times people say, oh, you'll have tingling in your arm, you'll have tightness of your chest or hard to breathe. Nothing. Literally, it was like I blinked my eyes. I woke up two days later, and I honestly believe, and in talking to my cardiologist, I think that those elbows may have had an effect. In other words, what I had was a sudden cardiac arrest. It was not the typical heart attack that was caused by blockage or clogged arteries or anything like that. And people suffer these. They say somebody dies every 90 seconds in the United States of a sudden cardiac arrest. And there's no rhyme or reason to it. It just. Your heart stops for one reason or other. And if there's not some way to get it started again, you're dead. You know, and had this happened to me an hour later or two hours later, and I'd been driving or been back in my hotel room by myself, that would have been it. I would have been gone. You know, just fortunately, the. The. Our doctor, Mike Sampson, our ringside physician, was right there next to me. And the paramedics in the back gave me cpr. My heart just stopped. I mean, and it didn't start beating again for 20 minutes. Minutes. They worked on me and gave me CPR for 20 straight minutes until they finally hit me with the defibrillator, with those pedals seven times before they got my heart started again. But the funny thing was, when you have these. When you have a sudden cardiac arrest and your heart stops, if you have the proper CPR and they can get your heart started back again, a lot of times it just. Just boom. It just kicks right back in, and there's no damage. It's not like. You know, it's not like to where your heart. If you had a clogged artery and. And suddenly part of your heart is deprived of blood flow and oxygen, and that part just dies off. Well, I didn't. My. I didn't suffer any damage to my heart. No scarring or anything like that once they got. Thanks to the cpr. But once they got my heart stuck, started back again, it was. It was as if it didn't happen.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I remember hearing about it from.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

That moment on and until today, if you didn't. If I didn't know it happened, you couldn't convince me that I really had a heart attack.

[Steve Austin]

Well, I remember hearing about it, you know, through the news, and all of a sudden, everybody thought, oh, when he comes around, he's gonna have some brain damage. And you didn't you returned back to normal?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, I think that was because, I mean, you know, that the word went out that my heart didn't beat for 20 minutes, right? And I think what most people figured was my brain and the rest of my body was deprived of blood flow because, of course, that's what your heart does for that 20 minutes. But thank God it was Mike Sampson, the WWE doctor, and two other paramedics from there in, in Montreal. And they took turns. I mean, because they did it with such force. They're blown up one of my ribs.

[Steve Austin]

Oh, yeah.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

They did it with such force, it would been impossible for one person to do that continuously for 20 minutes, but the three of them were able to take turns and keep me. Keep that blood with that pressure, keep the blood flowing throughout my body and to my brain, that I suffered no ill effects whatsoever.

[Steve Austin]

All right, so check it out. You're waking up in the hospital, you had a breathing tube down your throat. What are you thinking? You see your girl there? I mean, the last thing you remember is watching the match, right? What's going through your mind?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, and we had, my girlfriend and I, Lauren had been in Aruba the week before on a wrestling, did a wrestling show down there and a sort of a kind of combination vacation working trip to Aruba. And I just, I didn't remember, you know, when. What was going through my mind was I didn't immediately remember the match or that I had been at Monday Night Raw when it happened. And I couldn't, I couldn't even talk with that thing down my throat. So I was trying to write, and we've saved it. I still got it over here somewhere in the stack of papers, the, the note that I wrote to her. And the first thing I wrote was, are, are we in Aruba? I thought we were possibly still there. You know, I remember that, that part, yeah. And then, you know, she, she explained to me, but a lot of the stuff I don't, you know, I don't remember. And they say that that's one of the. That's one of the things that is an after effect of, of. Of your heart not beating for that length of time. You know, sometimes you don't remember everything, but it's, it's come back and, and, you know, it's just. It just was the weirdest thing. I feel like I'm the luckiest person, the luckiest person in the world, but I do, honestly. And I talked to my cardiologist about it, and he said, absolutely. The trauma to my chest from those Elbows could have knocked. My heart could have been hard enough to kind of knock your heart out of rhythm.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

And you wouldn't know. And it would just get. And it would start slowly and then just get more and more and more out of rhythm until it just seized up.

[Steve Austin]

Your heart is in a caddy wampus state, as we would say on a Steve Austin show. So what's the prognosis? You're good. You're back at work, you're feeling 100%, you're good to go.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Absolutely feel 100%. As a matter of fact, I'm, you know, I want to. I want to go in and. And sit down with Vince and say, hey, I want, you know, I want to come back and do something on the show I would love to do. Get. Get back involved with, you know, and have a match or two on Raw or the Pay per View.

[Steve Austin]

You still want to get back in the ring?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Definitely. Still.

[Steve Austin]

You ain't got that out of your system yet. You still hadn't got that out of your system.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

No, never, you know. You know, Steve, I don't know how it is with you, but I never got into this business ever for one minute thinking that I'd be a commentator. I loved the wrestling aspect of the business, and that's the only reason I wanted to be in it. And that's all I ever wanted to be. You know, the commentating just happened one day when, when Randy Macho Man Savage jumped ship and he and Vince McMahon had been doing the commentary together, and Randy was the color guy. And I remember, I think we were up in the Pocono Mountains getting ready to do raw. And if you remember, WCW during the Monday Night wars came on like an hour before RAW did.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

And we were all sitting around. I remember hearing Vince say, somebody get Randy and so we can go over something here on the show. And suddenly, I think it was Howard Finkel came in and said, vince, look at the tv. And they turned the TV on and there was Macho Man.

[Steve Austin]

Oh, wow.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Standing there on WCW television. You know, he had left with no warning, no notice, or anything like that. And that night, Vince came to me and said, king, would you. Would you jump in here and help me do the color commentary tonight? He said, I'll just. Just do it for one night and I'll have somebody else next week. And of course, that's been 20 years ago.

[Steve Austin]

Golly, man. I mean, obviously you always wanted to be a pro wrestler, as did I, but, you know, sometimes you get dealt a Different set of cards. So luckily you had the gift of Gap.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, yeah. I mean, that, this. And you know what? I never. I think a lot of times people ask me, what, Give me some tips or give me some insight as to what it would take to be successful at that. And I swear, Steve, it was like I never really. I never really thought about it. I never really took it serious. I just. I sort of had fun with it. I always cracked jokes and was, you know, I always looked at myself as being. During my wrestling promos, I always tried to be witty and make fun of my opponents and jokes and that sort of thing. So I just threw those in with the color commentary and it just worked. And I still, to this day, you know, poor Michael Cole. I look over when we sit down on Monday nights and get ready to do the show, and he's got a hundred different notes that he's had to write out and be prepared and do all this preparation for the show. And I just show up and sit down and start talking. Like I'm sitting next to my two next door neighbors and we're sitting watching Monday Night Raw. And that's the way I've always looked at it. And just have fun with it. You know, I never try to take it too serious. And fortunately for all this time, that's worked for me.

[Steve Austin]

But, you know, your quick wit, your sense of humor has obviously, you know, been one of your strong suits. But I like to go back to your promos because every now and then someone will say, oh, yeah, let's talk about the top 10 greatest promo guys. I always put you in the top five because of the way you could break down a story, lay out the situation, talk about your guy, put him over, sell the situation, the title at stake, or whatever. I always thought you got a hell of a promo. And there's a difference between selling tickets, selling your opponent, selling that match, than just being an infomercial.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, you're exactly right. And all I can do, I can just look back and think of the guys that were in the business when I started. That's who I tried to emulate. And the main one was, like I said, the guy that was originally my mentor, Jackie Fargo, he told me so many things. And don't think I just went out there and didn't ever make mistakes and didn't ever say the wrong thing, because I didn't. But fortunately, Jackie Fargo, when I came back to the. To the dressroom, he would pull me aside. I'll never forget one time I said something about him being old. And literally, when I walked back into the. When. When I walked back into that dressroom, he literally grabbed me by my shirt and pulled me over just where just he and I could talk. And he said, let me tell you something, punk. He said, you went out there, called me an old man. He said, how's that going to make you look when an old man whips your ass Monday, right? And, you know, I never. I never forgot things like that. And it just, you know, it made me. You could. You could always. You could always make fun of your opponent, but you didn't ever put them down to a point where, you know, because, I mean, you always wanted to make your opponent seem like, hey, they were. They were. They were the greatest thing ever. So that if you beat them, you really beat somebody, or if they beat you, you were beat by somebody, you know, you didn't want to. And a lot of guys never really. A lot of guys never really grasped that. That. That way of thinking on their promos. But, yeah, Jackie Fargo would. He would. He would guide me along through. Through things like that. And then it just. You know, you're right about telling stories. A lot of guys will just go out there and talk about themselves, and, you know, that's. That's okay. But you gotta. You got to. You got to tell a story. That's what the people want. They want to. They want you to explain what. What is going on and why you feel the way you do about who you're about to wrestle. You know, and it was always. And the other thing, too, was that Jackie Fargo would always tell me was to try to make it personal, right? I mean, and that, you know, Jerry Jarrett and I, when we used to. When we used to book the territory, he had a big sign hanging in his office that said, personal issues draw money. And that was just. He had that made on a sign. He had it hanging up in his office. So that when we were doing the book and you used to always try to remember things like that, and it. And it just doesn't take so much. I mean, if the. What the one thing that got me. And I never thought. I never thought that I would have. You know, I went so long, I never thought that I would get to wrestle at WrestleMania, right? But finally I had that match and thank you. You know, I don't know if I ever really got to say thank you for agreeing to referee that match, because that really made that match seem so much more important than it was. But the reason that I got to have a match at WrestleMania against Michael Cole, of all people, was because we had a personal issue. My mom had passed away, and Michael said some. And still to this day, I have to defend him. He never said one derogatory thing about my mom. They never, they never went out there and said anything that I, that I had a problem with. Right. But just because of the fact that they talked about my mom and it was that sensitive and that close to her passing away, it made it personal. And everybody out there could relate to that. They could say, man, I know how I would feel if somebody said something about my mom after she passed away. And that was. That was a personal issue. And it led into Michael Cole and I getting a match at WrestleMania because the people got into that and people get into personal issues and, and that's what, you know, I always tried to make my promos into. Into something more than just a match. I try to make it personal.

[Steve Austin]

Who did you like on the microphone other than, like I said? I. I've got you as, you know, a great promo. I know you like Nick Bogwinkel, who are some of the other guys, and you know, throughout your 43 years that you thought cut a damn good promo.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh, my gosh, Steve, you know, there's so many of them, and I'm not saying this because I'm on the show with you, but your were, you know, they were. They were in the top five. I mean, they were. They were always great. They were always right on the money. They were, they were personal in the fact that you, you were literally speaking for the masses. You were the first guy to come along in the, in this business that was so anti establishment and anti authority. And you spoke and said and did things that everybody out there watching wanted to be able to do or say, but they couldn't. So they lived vicariously through your interviews. And when you, you know, when you'd call Vince McMahon a son of a bitch, oh, my gosh, it was tremendous. I mean, you know, that. That sort of stuff was great. So I loved all of your interviews. My, maybe my all time favorite was Terry Funk. Right? To me, Terry Funk's interviews were. They were. They were personal. They were hilarious. I used to just. I would, I would just. I mean, I've seen it. Terry Funk, when he and I had the. He and I had a run down there in Memphis. We had a lot of matches, the empty arena match and some title match.

[Steve Austin]

I got to ask you about the empty arena match later, but go ahead.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Okay. But I saw him cut a promo on me one Then we, what was funny, we did the empty arena matchup in Memphis and it got a lot of, it got a lot of press and that sort of thing. And at the time, Terry's brother, Dory Funk was booking down in Florida. So he brought Terry and I down and did a, did a run around Florida and Dusty Rhodes was the main event. And we were like the semifinal every night. But what Terry did one night he, he was going to cut a promo about me and the upcoming match. And he had the camera guy come into a little shower stall down there and he, he had a can of 40 weight motor oil and a big bag of dirt and sand and stuff. And he's looking right in that camera and he said, you know, Jerry Law, I always wondered why you wanted to be like these Florida crackers. I always wondered why you wanted to live down here and be among these people. I wanted to know what it felt like to be a Florida cracker. So today I'm gonna know that feeling. And he picks this can of motor oil up and he just pours it over his head, all down his face, into his mouth. And he's spitting out motor oil as he's talking. He says, these Florida crackers are greasy. They're oily, slimy human beings. And then he takes this dirt and dumps it over his head after he's got all of this motor oil running down him and he just covers himself in this dirt and sand. He said, now I know what it feels like to be a Florida cracker. I'm just sitting outside the stall behind the cameraman watching this interview. And I just, I mean, I thought this guy is just tremendous. I mean, I just to me, he was the best interview guy that I, that I thought ever in the business. But there's Steve, there's been so many great ones. I mean, hey, the Rock, you know, the Rock was, the interviews were great and hey, you know, in his day. And you can't, you can't argue with the fact, hey, Hulk Hogan's interviews at one time were good. I mean, yeah, that's. You talk about talking fans into the arena. Hulk Hogan was able to do that. Man, there's been a. But there's been so many, so many great guys. That's just hard for any one particular other than, other than Terry Funk to come to mind right now.

[Steve Austin]

Yeah, I got into also, I mean, kind of the superstar, Billy Graham, Dusty Rhodes thing. I thought Dusty Rhodes was highly inventive and incidental.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh my gosh, there's another one who could you could never tire of listening to Dusty Rhodes do an interview.

[Steve Austin]

But when you went to do your promos, I mean, you booked a lot, but I mean, did you take time and think, okay, let me, let me break this down and think how I want to phrase this, or did you just, hey, man, just start talking and lay it all down?

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Well, I'll tell you what. And in our days of Memphis TV, you know, it was always live, every Saturday morning, 11 o', clock, Channel 5 in Memphis. And, you know, you knew who you were going to wrestle and you knew what the interview was going to be about or who the interview was going to be about. And I'll be honest with you. I would sit down on Friday nights or, or run it through my head on Friday nights as I was driving back from wherever. A lot of times I would wrestle in Atlanta on Friday night and catch a flight or early flight, flight back to Memphis and then go straight over to tv. But no, I would, I would definitely sit down and write out my interview. I would look at. I found. I'll never forget. Jimmy Cornett will relate to this because he bought the same book. But there was a. There was a book by this guy named Leo Safian, and it was called A Thousand and One Insults. And it was just a little paperback book. I don't know where I found it, but, brother, I used every one of those 1001 insults.

[Steve Austin]

I remember you having that you secured in your briefcase case.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Exactly. I have used every one of Those thousand and one insults 10,000 times. It was the greatest book I've ever. It's probably as much a part of my success as anything you can think of. But yeah, I would sit down and I would write out my interviews on Friday night. And, you know, and I think a lot of guys didn't. I think a lot of guys at the time didn't do that. And, well, they didn't. They didn't really have the ability to do that because they didn't. Most of the guys at tv, they would just get there on Saturday morning and find out who they were working with or who they needed to talk about and make the interview about. I always had the luxury of knowing. And so I would. I would sit down and prepare and write out and sometimes even practice it in a mirror or whatever, my interviews, to make sure that they were on the money.

[Steve Austin]

But that being said, I mean, you were writing down bullet points, or you might write out an entire promo. You go over it a few times, know it, and not just go out there and try to spit it out verbatim, not try to memorize it. It was a living, breathing promo when it came time to execute.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Oh, absolutely. Right.

[Steve Austin]

Because that memorization thing is killing me. And, you know, I know you're in the system today. Of course, I'm still a part of wwe, but when I see a lot of these cats try to memorize promo, it's, man, it just. I look at them, I shake my head because, you know, you can have a bunch of things that sound great, but you got to believe them. And if you're just trying to spit this stuff out because you memorized it, but you don't really believe it and you're unsure of yourself, and you can see that behind the person's eyes, it ain't a good promo.

[Jerry 'The King' Lawler]

Yeah, you're right. And you know, what's sad is sometimes, you know, not in the far too distant past, you'd be walking around the back and you'd see somebody like Ric Flair sitting there with an interview that somebody else had written for him and trying to memorize. And I mean, you know, here's another one of the guys that I failed to mention. One of the greatest interviews of all time. A guy like Ric Flair. Why would on earth would you think that Ric Flair needs to have an interview written for him other than, you know, other than the time factor or something like that? You know, I mean, if he's going to be on television, you know, Ric Flair, you know what he's. You know what you're going to get from. Let him go out there and be Ric Flair.

[Steve Austin]

I remember when I came back from my neck surgery, and then all of a sudden those kind of scripts started floating around and, you know, the things had kind of changed. And, man, at first, you know, my promos were just a free for all, and then they kind of started, you know, framing them in a little bit, and I kind of started working with it in the system. But I really wasn't happy, you know, after I came back post neck surgery with the promo process, undoubtedly I still cut some winners, but that being said, it was what it was. And, you know, I just. I dig a great promo, and I want to watch, you know, some of your old work. It's just fun to watch, it's fun to listen to, and it's fun to be talked into a situation, talked into buying a ticket, and you got to feel that you've got to be at that show, and that's what makes a great promo. I'm talking to Jerry the King Lawler. We're going to wrap this up.

[Steve Austin (Host)]

This has been a Podcast one production. Download new episodes of the Steve Austin show every [e-mail] that's podcastone.com this September, CBS Hits are streaming free on Pluto TV. I'm coming in for this month only. You can watch full seasons of the CBS shows you love, from the courtroom drama of Matlock to the heroics of Fire Country. Go back to where it all began in NCIS origins, or watch the hilarious hauntings of ghosts. All for free. Full seasons of the CBS shows you love this month only on Pluto tv. Stream now. Pay Never.