A (4:01)

Steve Austin Unleashed. Unleashed.

B (4:04)

All right, I'm rolling sound. I got Wade, Killer Pro Wrestling Torch on the other end of the line. He's on vacation in Boulder, Colorado. This is the first installment we've done. We're trying to talk about the business of pro wrestling. Wade, how are you?

A (4:17)

I'm doing great.

B (4:18)

Hey, man. I took a short vacation with my wife last week. We went for two days to Santa Barbara, California. I didn't do so well because I'm too type A. How are you on a vacation front with the family?

A (4:29)

I'm good. I'm good. I mean, it's tough because I'm not really cutting back all that much on work. You know, I did a newsletter this week and I'm doing all my, just about all my podcasts. Some staff helping out. Bruce Mitchell helped out earlier today on the live cast. But I mean, it's a lot of work and then just fit in as much fun and sightseeing as you can. But the hiking's been great and it's just different. I'm very routine. Like, I stress out when I get outside of my routine. Because I take on so much. So I'm just trying really hard to not stress out and not make trying hard to not stress out. Stress me out. I think I'm doing pretty well. I think I'm doing okay.

B (5:07)

Hey, man, going from Minnesota over to Colorado. I was talking to you the other day when we were talking about doing this segment for a podcast, and you were on a hike somewhere. Maybe you were in Denver. And Denver always kicked my ass because of, you know, you're so high up in altitude, and I'm a sea level guy. And every time you go to Denver, man, I mean, most guys on the car would blow up, but you get through it because that's what we did. How's the altitude been treating you on your hikes?

A (5:32)

The first hike at Gem Lake at Rocky Mountain national park was. It was rough. Like, I just. I looked at my Fitbit after walking for maybe five, six minutes also. It's like 142 and I'm like, that's. I'm just walking and I'm already at 142. So I was like, I'm gonna rest. I don't overdo it. And then I let my heartbeat get under 100, and then I started in again, and I never hit 140 again. You know, I mean, so I think I adjusted, but it was like an hour and a half hike in high, you know, 8,700ft, high altitude, and ended up going 1,000ft, you know, higher by the end. It was fun. But, I mean, yeah, you. It's a weird feeling when you inhale and you don't get the same reaction you're used to. That's a weird feeling. But I think my heart adjusted by about the half mile mark.

B (6:17)

Hey, man, let's start talking about the business a little bit. Here's a question for you. How you been able to consume the product watching Monday Night Raw or Smackdown while you're over there doing your vacation stuff?

A (6:26)

Yeah, well, at the BNRB resort and Estes park, which is where we were for the last few days, they had. They had USA Network, so I was able to watch Ron Smackdown there. I was not used to not having the dvr. Like, I'm used to being able to hit rewind, and so it was like I had to just really pay attention. It was a different experience where normally I can kind of type and get distracted and then rewind, so. But you know what? I give it a thumbs up in terms of things working out technology wise. This is not a trip I could have done 10 years ago.

B (6:57)

All right, well, I could have probably done a better job of watching Monday Night Raw. Had a bunch of things going on and a bunch of meetings to go to. I watched most of it, and as far as Smackdown went, I tried to watch that, but I got sidetracked and wasn't able to watch that. So you're going to be doing most of the heavy lifting. I was able to go on the WWE Network and watch some highlights, so I do have some moments that I liked with respect to both shows. So with that being said, let's talk about the Monday night show, which is Raw. Give me your highlights or takeaways from Monday Night Raw.

A (7:27)

Well, the thing I most want to talk to you about is Brock Lesnar, Samoa Joe pull apart. I thought it was a really good segment. I like the segment the week before better with Joe and Heyman. And that's. No, it's just as a setup for what happened this week. But I was curious if Lesnar would speak because Joe attacked Heyman and would that kind of flip things over to where Brock would say something to Joe about, you don't touch my. My advocate, Paul Heyman. And he just did the same thing. You know, no talking and brawling. And I don't know if a lot went into that decision, but to me, when. When a heel Joe attacks Heyman. And I loved Heyman's line like, hey, there's a lot of people who. I wouldn't blame them for attacking me, but I never did anything to Joe. And that kind of was him framing it as, we're the baby faces here. Because the Joe. The attack by Joe was unprovoked. I've never done anything to him, but I was wondering if Brock would talk. So couple talking points there, Steve. Did you like that Brock still did not talk and Heyman did all the talking. Or were you kind of looking for maybe Brock to step up and speak?

B (8:29)

Well, I was looking for Brock to grab a horn as well. I thought that he would because it fit as like it's finally. Well, this is my least show, so I can go ahead and say it. I'd be like, you know, once the attack happen on Heyman, he chokes him out the week before. All of a sudden, here they come back and it's like, hey, motherfucker. And then, you know, you start talking. Now he can't say motherfucker like I did.

A (8:49)

No, you can't.

B (8:50)

You can't. You're in the comfort zone of the Unleash show. Wade. Yeah, I really thought Maybe he'd grab a horn like, hey, bitch. And then start talking trash. But maybe they're going to delay that a little bit. I mean, how much longer do they have for this match to come around? Is this, what, in July?

A (9:05)

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess we're three weeks out

B (9:07)

and I'm not expecting Brock to grab a horn and just start going Shakespearean on him. But, you know, Brock is a super powerful dude. I mean, he's just been kind of doing his thing. Paul Heyman is the mouthpiece. If there was a moment where it could happen, it could have been here. But it can be in the future to really lay the line down and to say, hey, bitch, here we go at Great Balls of Fire. So it could still happen. And I think that it should. Not too much. You don't want to give him too much to say. You don't want to kill that mystique off because he's so big and bad and powerful and Paul's such a great mouthpiece for him. But hey, man, when you cross the line, and he certainly did, then it's time for him to say something. Let's go to the. From the pull Apart aspect of it, as I watched it in real time, it was a pretty good pull apart. And then I was like. And I'm like, real nitpicky about these things. And when I watched on the network, the slow motion replay, it was really much more effective and I really enjoyed it. And finally, when all the guys started hitting the ring, pulling those guys apart, there was great intensity on Brock's part as well as Joe's. And man, when they got them separated and Joe reached in there with that super kick and tagged Brock at that last minute. And then Brock kind of looked down and sold that thing. It's like, oh, shit, you just fucked up. You just stepped in a big pile of it. And he just kind of wiped his mouth there a little bit. He didn't overstep. Sell it. He sold it just perfectly. I was like, holy shit, now we're onto some good shit. That's what I took from the Pull Apart.

A (10:32)

And what's your philosophy? If they came to you and said, should we have Joe and Brock get physical before their first match at the pay per view, or do we tease physicality but not give the fans that teaser? What decides that? Because that's always, I mean, for as long as I can remember, that's always a talking point. When do you have him get physical before the big fight that people pay to see and when don't you.

B (10:55)

I think it's just a case by case or a match by match kind of scenario. And I think it's like, hey, man, when the guys went into the ring, what was it last week or two weeks ago when they had the pay per view and it was Joe versus what was that match called?

A (11:09)

The which match?

B (11:12)

It was the match to determine who was going to face Brock at Great Balls of Fire.

A (11:15)

Oh, Fatal. Fatal. Five way, whatever it was.

B (11:19)

Remember, as soon as they went to the ring, I said, Joe's going to win this match.

A (11:23)

Oh, wow. Okay.

B (11:24)

Because Joe was built and I thought this is a guy to fight Brock right now. So I was picking this. And so I don't know where Joe is as far as the crowd goes. For me, he's one of my favorite workers, I've said many, many times in the business right now. So I just picked him as being the guy most built that can go in there and raise hell and have a great match with Brock and we'll see Roman, Reigns, all whatever, later. But as far as the pull apart goes, first of all, like I said, I hand picked Joe. I know he's going to win the match. That's the logical matchup. I just think to put him on the same level or to put those guys face to face. And Joe's a big guy, but you see how big Brock Lesnar is and they're face to face and then Joe, he butts him and then they go into action. Joe initiates. So hey man, I ain't afraid of your big ass motherfucker. Here we go. So I thought it sent out that kind of message that, hey, Joe's the guy and he ain't afraid. And everybody knows how good it can work. But just from a storyline standpoint, I liked it, but I think it's really a case or like I said, a match by match type thing. But I think it elevated Joe. You know, he ain't afraid. You know, he's a badass. You know, he has a few tricks up his sleeves. He's got all the MMA skills. So I liked it. And I think, you know, had it been anybody else, I don't think you'd have seen that physicality.

A (12:42)

Yeah. And that's why I didn't have real strong feelings either way as far as should they get physical or should they. If I had, if some, if they just said what should they do beforehand? I'd lean towards physicality. Because Joe hasn't been portrayed as a killer. He like this undefeated, just plowing through everybody. I Think if he had been doing that, then you want to keep him apart because you've already built Joe up as a guy where people are already fantasizing about, God, what if is Brock the only guy who can stop him? So I don't want Joe selling for Lesnar at all. But since they haven't done that with Joe, and I wouldn't say this came out of nowhere, but it's not like Joe's just been a guy in the mix, in the top mix. He's not standing above and beyond. I like that they showed Joe can go toe to toe with Lesnar and be opportunistic for as he was in that pull apart brawl too. And I actually like the promo late in the show. Mike Rome interviewed Joe backstage afterwards and just said that they're playing right into his strategy, you know, and that he, he showed he is not scared of Brock. And that was his message that he sent earlier in the show. And he wanted to walk to the ring, stare Lesnar in the eye and let him. And I like Joe's line. He can. I wanted him to see exactly the man he is going to battle. I love that line from Joe and I love that Joe's not yelling at either. He's like, cool, serious, stare a hole in you, Joe.

B (13:55)

And here's the thing, as soon as he stepped foot in that ring, Wade, it was like, okay, now we saw this a few months ago when Braun Strowman and Brock Lesnar were face to face. And Braun turned around and walked away. Now, I'm a big fan of Braun Strowman. I think he's got a lot of potential. He's coming back from that injury. But now I would just. When you got two big badasses like that staring face to face, if you don't do something, I mean, it's just real hard to turn around and walk away. And I'd already seen that and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So I knew right when they stepped forward and face to face, I said, shit has to happen now, because if it don't, there's something wrong. So it did happen. So I was relieved at that. When you get these two alpha males in there, or as Dusty Rhodes would say, the bull of the woods. Two bulls of the woods in there, something had to happen. And it did. If Joe would have turned around, people would have shit all over it. So thumbs up.

A (14:52)

And if you're Brock Lesnar and you're watching that, Steve, as a wrestler who's been in this position before, deciding how Much do you give? How much do you take? And what do you think of what Brock gave to Joe? What's your interpretation of Brock's and Paul for that matter? Because Paul's real influential with Brock, his respect level for Joe, because Brock can make or break somebody.

B (15:13)

Yeah. Oh, man, you know, look what he did with Jesus Christ with Bill Goldberg. Bill smoked him twice right out of Jump street, man. Those matches lasted what, 45 seconds, a minute and a half. They went four or five at the rubber match at WrestleMania. So, you know, Brock's smart. He wants people to get over. He wants to dance with the hottest partner that he can dance with. So, yeah, he's going to help make Joe. That's the thing about Brock. He's very confident in who and what he is. He's a superstar, he's a big ass draw. He's a bad motherfucker. He's probably the baddest guy. He is the baddest guy in the dressing room. Everybody knows it. So, yeah, help make Joe because Joe has a reputation. Everybody knows Joe's the tough son of a bitch, he can work his ass off. And I look for a hell of a damn match out of these guys. So Brock is unselfish and of course Paul's going to go out there and do his part to do everything to just elevate Joe higher than he is right now. So that match means all that much more once that bell rings. So props to Brock for that. And he's a smart guy. He's a smart businessman.

A (16:13)

One more thing on Brock Jones, I think it is a topic right now, even with some other cool things going on. What do you want to see in the match? Because Brock, it's been Suplex City, Suplex City, Suplex City ever since that, really, since the Cena match, I guess, and fans loved it. But I know, I know Brock can do more than that and I want to see Brock do more than that. With Joe, I want to see some Matt wrestling. I want to see other stuff, man,

B (16:36)

that's a great question. Suplex City has been a great vehicle for Brock to create this style that has become his style. And he's been able to make it, what, the past year and a half with that. And so now with a guy like Joe, with Joe's skills, I think I don't want to predict or I don't want to dictate what these guys do, but I just think now is the time that because of Joe's skill set, that this story can happen without him going to suplex City so often, maybe late in the match, but. And I don't expect Joe to dominate the beginning part of the match, but I expect to see. God dang, they're going to go longer than four. It ain't going to be Goldberg, Brock. It's going to be, you know, I think this is a chance for Brock to put some time in and for Joe to, you know, go out there and put in that time with him and just be a physical back and forth slobber knocker, as my buddy Jim Ross would say. I just now is a real chance to put on a badass brawl. That's what I see.

A (17:40)

I do, too. I do, too. And I want. I think Lesnar has to win because they're. I think they're saving Lesnar for Reigns. They don't want Lesnar to look. They want Lesnar to look really strong until Roman Reigns presumably beats him. I mean, that's my forecast and I think things are pointing that way. Who knows, though? But that said, I think there's a way for Joe to lose and come out of this a much bigger star. And I think so far, what Joe did last week a and this week, I think Vince McMahon has to be impressed and has to be thinking, I'm now looking at WrestleMania next year and Samoa Joe is now on my short list of people that I care about. I think he's been that good the last two weeks.

B (18:15)

Well, man, I've been talking about ever since they brought him into NXT and finally, you know, got his ass up to the main roster. So I'm excited for the guy. I'm one of his biggest fans, so, man, I'm pretty goddamn picky. So, yeah, if you didn't impress Vince with the, the powers that be, then you know something's wrong because the guy's a hellacious talent, is a great worker. I don't care about the finish. I don't want to predict the finish. You know, you and me pretty much on the same page, win or lose, you know, and yeah, certainly you think Brock's going to win this match because of what it is. But win or lose, you know, Joe goes out there, first of all, the win is a win. But a loss to a guy like Brock and you go out there and you bust your ass and you have a good showing for yourself. Boom. That shoots your stock up. Just like winning. It's the same. Same. Damn near.

A (19:02)

Yeah. Did you see the Bailey segment? Sit down.

B (19:06)

Interview with Corey Grace.

A (19:08)

I'm curious what you think of that, too.

B (19:09)

I'm a big Bailey fan, but it was interesting. But I think I was glad to hear her talk about her struggle or her desire to work back to the top of the championship bouts so she can get a shot at the title again. And so, you know, if she's talking about it, they're thinking about it. So I'd like to see her back in the title picture. But when she was saying, you know what, Wade, I'm gonna go out on a limb here. I'm thinking, heel turn.

A (19:39)

That's what I'm wondering. The line. I mean, I think fans were sitting at home going, what the fuck? When she said, I'm not there to put bruises on people's backs. I'm there to put smiles on people's faces. That is a fucking heel turn, Steve Austin. I'm going on Leaf.

B (19:56)

I just. I thought it was a real interesting interview. Really well played by Bailey. I mean, just a well executed interview by her. And so she did her part, but turning her heel, no. Well, you know what, if she's keeping

A (20:11)

her face, though, that's a little syrupy and precious.

B (20:13)

Well, I'm just saying, I think there's. I think there's a heel turn coming. I don't know. I don't know. I'm in the dark, dude. I barely watch a show. But like I told you the other day, I love pro wrestling. They call it sports entertainment these days. But anyway, I'm a big Bailey fan. I really like the interview. And I'm smelling a heel turn. So that's what really entertained me about it. But here's the thing. The thing that was weird for me was when she said, can we end this with a hug? And who was that interviewer? Corey Graves.

A (20:41)

Corey Graves, yeah.

B (20:42)

Corey Graves did a great job. So anyway, she does the hug and there's that camera angle. So it was a little bit awkward. But like you said, or like Corey said, well, if you're not here to bruise or hurt people, how does that bode for you, Whatever you're saying? But it was just setting. Here's the thing, Wade. It set an interesting story that I want to see how it plays out. So whether it plays out with her remaining baby face and not wanting to hurt people, but still trying to get that championship belt, okay, I'm going to go on that ride with them or down the road, or in this road, there's a heel turn, I'm in because I like the story. Okay?

A (21:20)

Yeah, yeah.

B (21:21)

So that's how I felt about it. But I thought it was well executed. And again, it piqued my interest. So I'm in.

A (21:27)

Yeah. I'm curious where they go. I mean, if the fans reject her because she's so syrupy and precious about her morals and, I mean, it's not what people imagined would be the way to make the most money with Bailey. And so there's going to be some 2020, not 2020. There's going to be some people critical of they screwed up now. They know it, they're trying to fix it, but it'd be nice if they didn't screw up in the first place. That said, it would be interesting. You know, it's like Honky Tonk man debuted as a babyface and everybody booed him. You know, like they're Rocky Maivia. No, we don't like you in your smile. So, I mean, there is. That's happened and worked. Maybe there's some money there. We'll see.

B (22:01)

But again, you know, I want to see more range out of her. And so with this, I think is going to give her the opportunity to show that range and whatever, how they tell that story. Okay, we talked about that. Let's move on to the next gimmick, the Wrestling Bear.

A (22:19)

Now, wasn't it in Memphis when Jerry Jarrett would burn out on booking? Jerry. Jerry Lawler would take over, and then all of a sudden, all the, like, Frankenstein's monster would show up. Like, Jerry liked to bring in the monsters and stuff. Like, what's going on with the Wrestling Bear? I've actually chuckled at this, I think, with Mrs. Character and who they've incorporated into it and how weird, you know, the zany Dean Ambrose character, it's kind of worked for me in a way that I'm sort of hesitant to admit. How about you?

B (22:45)

I have on my notes here Wade, and this is a straight up shoot. I just have three words. Well, I have four words. I said, miss Entertains me. And then I have his wife's name, Maurice, because she did. She's part of the package as well. She did great. So I'm interested to see where that storyline goes with, you know, Miz beating up the box, you know, and that wasn't, you know, the dancing bear that, you know, Maurice got. So all of this stuff, Miz is spectacular on the horn. He just. He's. He really works his ass off. And I'm enjoying this ride. Now, as far as the Wrestling bear, God dang. You really. You know how hardcore I am on pro wrestling. And so I know that there's that E in WWE now. So I Get. There's got to be some entertainment factor in there for this storyline. It worked okay because I've got something that I'm going to bring up here in a little bit that you won't believe that I liked, but it's going to be on the Smackdown portion. But I thought it worked. It worked. It was effective. And Golly Ambrose was over the top with the facials. I was thinking, man, it's almost a little over the top. But, you know, I have right here just Miz entertains me. The kid's working his ass off, and I really like what he does.

A (24:07)

Yeah. And I think if you're going to incorporate a wrestling bear into an angle in a situation. The Miz celebration last week, Dean showed up, or Bear showed up. Miz assumed it was Dean and it wasn't. And I thought they played that. They played that well. And then this week, I mean, they had a guy who could, you know, do a bear hug and take a bump and then the switcheroo with Dean. So, I mean, yeah, I think it wasn't like they had the bear. Everybody's in on the joke. You know what I mean? Like, the right people are in on the joke, and no one is being played who shouldn't be played. It's the heels who are being played. So I think it worked fine.

B (24:40)

But, but, but, I mean, on the announcing end of it, every bear pun that was ever invented was in the commentary. And I was like, God dang, man, just give me a little bit of a break. I get it, okay? I like both guys. I like Maurice. I'm okay. Just don't kill me with the bear jokes now.

A (25:01)

They lost, like, 440,000 viewers on Raw from the first hour to the third hour because they were going up against the Cavs and Warriors. So this is sort of like the teacher left the classroom. Let's just, you know, screw off a little bit and I. Or screw around a little bit. And I think that's a little bit of maybe what was going on, too, is they. They thought they could get away with, you know, being a little out of the normal lane on this show because they knew they'd have a smaller audience, which they knew real quick on Seth and Bray. They did that long promo segment. Anything, Joe Baji, I know you've been trying to. You've been talking about Seth. Who is he? What is he? Is he getting any closer to where you're going? All right, now I kind of see who he is and what he's becoming.

B (25:39)

I did not see that promo. So I'd be very interested in knowing what your thoughts were.

A (25:44)

Yeah, I thought this was a step in the right direction for my. In my report on the website, I didn't say a lot about it. I mean, I didn't have real strong feelings, but I thought that he was stronger in going after Bray in a way that pulled him more away from his heel character. And I think when he had such a terrible babyface turn last summer, which was, oh, Stephanie and Hunter, you rejected me. Why? And it's like, that's not really a reason to cheer a guy when he turns is he's been rejected by the top heels. He never really turned babyface, and now he's standing up to Bray with some good lines. And he was in the right, you know, he asked Bray, are you saying that I cost you your match last week against Joe? Because you cost me my match against Joe last week because I called you a couple of names. I didn't know you were so fragile. That's not blasphemy. That's the truth. When I call you a false prophet and a wannabe martyr. I thought those were good lines. I mean, the written form, I'm assuming safely, but I thought he delivered them well. And it was the right thing for him to be saying to Bray, which is, stand up to this hypocrite in Bray with thin skin who acts like he's a God, but he can't take a few names being thrown at him. And I thought Seth just came out of it looking like a baby face should in this situation, which is you're nodding along to what he's saying, and you see the heel as the fraud and Seth as speaking the truth. So I like the structure of the promo, and I think Seth's delivery is getting better. Still not quite sure where he's going to land in the long, you know, the next year or two as he solidifies being a face. But I think he's taking a step in the right direction.

B (27:09)

Well, I'm glad to hear that. And one thing in Seth's promos from the past is sometimes, you know, when he's cutting a promo, you don't necessarily believe he believes what he's saying. He's just enunciating or saying the words, whatever. And so if he can come with more conviction, if he can. God dang. You just got to make it organic as possible. I'm going to jump real quick, and then we're going to jump back into raw. Did you see Smackdown?

A (27:37)

Yeah, of course.

B (27:38)

Did you see the backstage interview with Mojo Raleigh.

A (27:41)

Yeah, yeah.

B (27:42)

Okay. Did you see how relaxed that kid was when the young lady. I'm sorry, I don't know her name,

A (27:48)

Roger Fuentes, I believe.

B (27:50)

Okay. Asked him about the loss last week or whatever, the Jinder Mahal. And, man, that kid starts spinning up a tail. And then all of a sudden, here comes Zack Ryder. But just watch that kid's promo. Watch how relaxed that guy is. It looked like a damn shoot. That was an excellent interview by Mojo Raleigh and the backstage part of that. And so I want to talk about that when we get to smackdown. I'll take it back to Seth Rollins. If Seth can just come across like that. I mean, and use a little bit more diaphragm when you speak and get that microphone up closer to your mouth so you just got a little bit more power and you're coming a little bit louder. You don't have to yell when you cut a promo. I just mean you've got to have a little bit of bass. So just come with a little bit more command on your words and a little bit more emotion. It's just that salt and pepper and some goddamn venom when somebody has pissed you off or this guy's a false prophet, or did I cost you this or did you cost yourself that? And so just give me some emotion, Seth. I mean, God dang, you're as talented as anybody there is. Just give me some emotion so I can identify more with you. I didn't see the promo, but that's been my problem in the past with him. And I think I'm glad that they. It was a while back when they did that interview with. That segment in the ring with the Miz and Dean Ambrose. And Dean Ambrose says, I don't know, I think, God dang, what was the setup that Miz gave him? I don't know what a. What it was was the promo where Miz such Dean Ambrose up. And Dean just comes out there and goes flat out, I'm not this, I'm not that, I'm a wrestler or whatever. But he was able to define who Dean Ambrose was in that one segment. So that was a real smart segment. And so that's what Seth Rollins needs. Just, hey, not just the same segment, but let me know just a little bit more about you. Like, you ain't got to admit. It doesn't have to be freaking. It doesn't have to be anything, but just let me know a little bit who and more of what you are and deliver those words with conviction. Because he's Outstanding in the ring, but you just want to care more for him. How was Bray Wyatt? Because man, that guy is a silver tongued devil. He's a wonderful promo, but I felt that in the last year, year and a half how long it's been. I think sometimes they just have him go out there and just say too much and sometimes you just say too much and he just turns to things that don't really mean anything. As magical and wonderful and as eloquent and articulate as he is, sometimes you go out there with a damn horn. And I know because I've done it as Stone Cold Steve Austin. Sometimes you got too much to say, people ain't got that much attention for you. And I think they kind of watered him down when they put him in that zone too many times. How is he coming across?

A (30:41)

There's been some promos lately where I've liked them better than I usually like them. But I mean, when I watch him so much of the time, I think community theater, you know, there's a guy who's out there and he's performing lines and it's the same lines every night and he's got the laugh and all that and I don't fully buy him. I think he's been better lately. But it's tough because when he says, like he told Seth in that promo, your precious glass house came tumbling down in a million pieces. Then he does his hahaha laugh and you will be picking out shards of glass for eternity because of your lack of judgment. Your ignorance is painting a vivid picture of Allah they will all learn to live by, which is if you take my name in vain, you will fall. It's fine. But it's sing song scripted sounding and I still don't feel like I'm hearing from a human being who feels what he's saying. I feel like I'm hearing from somebody who's performing and I don't know if he's ever going to break from that because his shtick is not words that you can say off the top of your head. He's not an extemporaneous speaking character. He's somebody whose words, like I just recited clearly have to be memorized ahead of time. They're not going to break from that. So I don't know that there's a solution. I mean, I think what we see is what we're going to get from Bray and for him to say things about shards of glass for eternity and your ignorance is painting a vivid picture. He's never going to say that off the top of his head. So he's always going to be memorized, and that's always going to be something that probably works against him. All of that said something kind of negative. I think he's been better at delivering it without all the laughs, kind of the nervous laughs thrown in lately. And so if there's some improvement in it, more of a comfort level, then maybe we're on the right course to get to the best landing place for that character.

B (32:22)

I think there still is room. He's been there for, what, how many years? A while now. Started off as Husky Harris. I was a fan of his back when he was Husky Harris. I'm a fan as Bray Wyatt, but for reasons I've already said, he's talking too long. You can come out of the zone that he's in. There is a way to come out of this. If he figures it out and becomes more organic and doesn't maybe laugh so much. There is a way to come out of what you just described. I don't want to put him in a box because I think the kid's got so much talent. We'll see if he's able to break from where he's at right now and be taken in a more serious light.

A (33:00)

And he's got to win. That's what people tell me when I try to finalize his promos. I'm a promo guy. But at some point, Bray's got to actually do what he says, and he never does what he says. He loses almost all. He loses all his feuds. So that.

B (33:12)

And that's on the office. Jesus Christ.

A (33:14)

Oh, it is. Yeah.

B (33:15)

Yeah. So anyway, next. Next segment. Or was that your Raw highlights?

A (33:20)

Yeah, that's. That's the Raw highlights. That's.

B (33:22)

Those were the Raw highlights. Let me see here in my notes. What else do I have? Oh, okay. Well, tell me, what was the Roman Reigns announcement?

A (33:29)

They just. Reigns was actually in a dark match on Monday. He beat Bray Wyatt. Got actually a nice reaction from the live crowd because they advertised him. He wasn't on Raw. People thought, oh, he's not going to be here. And then they surprised him in a dark match with him coming out. Got a nice reception. So. But they decided not to put him on the show because they're up against the NBA Finals and there wasn't a lot for him to do. And I like that. I don't think the top guy should be on every week, but I like that they built up that Next Monday he's going to be on Raw and he's going to announce what his plans are for Great Balls of Fire. So they're basically building. I'm all for that. Give us a week to talk and speculate and think about something. So when the message is delivered, we've spent a whole week building it up in our heads. I like that. I like when WWE does that.

B (34:11)

Well, okay, before we move on to Smackdown, Wade go on a sales pitch. I don't mean sales pitch. Tell the people how they can find you.

A (34:19)

Sure. PWTorch.com is the main website. We've got editorials. I cover Raw and Smackdown live as they air every Monday night and Tuesday night. And then I do a live show afterwards, which is available the next day and the day after and forever. You can find details on our podcast@pwtorchlivecast.com and then we have a VIP membership which people can check out details on. We got 30 years of archives of our newsletter coverage, thousands of hours of podcasts dating back to the early 90s. You can get info on that@pwtorch.com 30 years.

B (34:53)

Holy smokes. I'm coming right back with Wade Keller, pro wrestling torch apostle, because sponsors to keep his show on air twice a week for free. Two cans of audio Whoop ass for fucking nothing. Coming right back with Wade Keller. Hey, this is Adam Carolla from the Adam Carolla show. Prediction markets talk outcomes. Betonline puts odds behind them. For decades, betters have trusted betonline for accurate lines, deep prop markets, and real

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All right, Wade, you ready?

A (36:56)

Yep. Sure.

B (36:57)

All right, here we go. Smackdown live Tuesday. Talk about it. Start me off somewhere. Your notes, your highlights.

A (37:06)

Well, I mean, the main thing there was really not a ton on Smackdown, but the Jinder Mahal promo and Randy Orton hitting the RKO out of nowhere. Did you see that segment?

B (37:16)

Absolutely.

A (37:17)

Yeah. So, okay, this is the issue with Jenner, because I wanted to talk to you about Jinder Mahal because I want to get your. Last time we talked, I compared him to Al Perez. You know, he looks the part, but when he comes on the screen, you're like, ah, I kind of know what's going to happen here. I'm going to take a break, you know, run to the bathroom or the kitchen. And I'm not sure that he's gotten out of that. That realm for me. A guy who looks the part, he can work fine in the ring, but I'm not sure that he's a money guy selling tickets for me yet. I keep waiting for him to break out. What have you thought of his presentation and performance on the mic so far?

B (37:49)

You know, as far as the horn goes, I think the guys coming around here's what I liked about that promo before. You know, Randy came in with the rko, which I thought was spectacular. And I think Randy really needed that moment. And I want to talk about what he did after that moment, which endeared me more to Randy Orton. But going back to Jenner Mahal, when he starts his promos off, when he's just speaking straight up English, and I know he's from Canada, he's been speaking English his entire life, but you can tell he's kind of memorizing those words. And he comes across a little stiff, but I think he has a lot of potential. He's got a great look, he's a good sized guy, got a good body. I think he's got a lot of ability. When he started saying, hey, man, I'm going to deliver a message to my people, and he starts talking in Punjabi, holy smokes. He starts talking that trash. And because that's just off the cuff for him, it's not scripted. And that's when he really starts flowing. And then he didn't ram it down the crowd's throat hard enough. When they started booing him. He kind of started looking around in classic heel fashion. Skip that. But start, you know, force feeding them that stuff. And that was just good trash talk. And if he can make his English promos like that Punjabi type promo is, and I think the guy's really going to start lighting the horn up. So I think he's got a lot of potential. He's got a great look. But is he there yet? To your point? No, he's not. But can he be there? Yes. And the wins are going to matter. He's got the belt. It'll be interesting to see, you know, in this matchup with Randy what they're going to do as far as the segment goes. Okay, I'll stop there. On gender, do you see? Are you seeing a ceiling for this guy or just doesn't do it for you or what?

A (39:32)

Like people said, oh, he's making progress. Give him a chance. And I think he's making progress. You know, he started at one when it came to perception, he was just portrayed as a jobber for pretty much his whole time or, you know, a real lower card guy. You saw him in the ring, usually didn't get ring entrance and he would lose frame it, ID it. However, with whatever label you want to rocket him to world title status. And then to win, you need to be special in some way to make up for the booking that built this foundation of expectations that you're a low level guy and he hasn't been special yet. He's been good. He looks the part. So the question is, does can he reach a level of performance that makes up for the fact that there was no foundation to the booking to build him up credibly? And I think the strength he has is that look. Walking to the ring, he carries himself like a star. A lot of times that's half the battle. It's just carrying yourself like a star. He walks into that ring and he makes you believe he's a star. The problem is once he starts talking. You talked about it with Seth. I don't hear. It's not really compelling and the delivery feels strained. And so I'm not quite sure if he's battling some laryngitis or something like that. It's been going on a month or if that's what we're going to get with him, but it feels like he's saying the same thing. Every week and pretty much the same way. And I just think it has a short shelf life as a top act. Unless he can broaden what he's doing and speak, as you said, more gutturally and with more genuine emotion.

B (41:02)

And like, he would really say it. I mean, they've got him, you know, pretty damn scripted. I'm like, man, I barely, barely know gender. But I mean, I'm thinking, you know, he's probably a pretty damn cool guy and he'd say things a lot differently. Seems like a really smart guy. So I think he's going to be able to figure things out. As far as, you know, the kid looks like a star. He dresses to the nines. He comes off like that inside the ring, like I said, because I rarely get a chance to watch too much anymore. But I do dvr. I have to go back and watch some of his matches to kind of get a feel for how he's working mechanically in the ring. But as you well know, Wade, with everybody, with the way the business is sped up and the athleticism going on right now, man, the thing to do would be able to go away from that. You still want to work, have a lot of salt and pepper on your offense. Be able to sell in a proper fashion and an entertaining fashion. Getting an ass whooping from a baby face, especially a baby face, that's over. But you ain't got to, you know, with his size, I mean, he's not the biggest guy on the roster, but he looks like a big guy. You don't have to work cruiserweight style, nor should you try to, because there's a lot of guys out there that are gonna be doing that stuff a lot better than you. Stick to the basics of what would fit within that character. Make it strong, strong style, if you will, and make that your method of operation. Once the bell rings, I'll watch some of his matches. We'll report on it maybe on the next installment when we actually do 15 minutes rather than an hour. But I'm not going to put a ceiling on this kid. I think he's got potential. I want to wait and let him ride it out. You know, when you come in, Wade, you know, I don't know how long the kid's been working. And you get in that damn, you know, roster and all of a sudden you get the damn world belt on you. And you've been, you know, at the lower end doing favors for guys. Hey, man, it's a big head trip because, hell, I go back to WCW when I won the Television title from beautiful Bobby Eaton and I was like, shit. In my mind back then I thought it was really good. But looking back, I couldn't lace Bob Eaton's boots. I felt bad taking the title from him. I was happy to have it. I'm not going to tell the promoters, no, man, I don't want that belt. I'm not worthy yet. So here comes gender. I don't know what their plans were for him at the beginning, but now they got plans for them. Now it's a little bit of a reset before you just all of a sudden start clicking on all cylinders. And like you said, you're perceived like, hey man, this guy's worthy of being a world champion. So he's got to grow into that. When they first dropped that title on me back in WCW, give or take about 91. Hell, I never had a belt before. How do you go about defending that thing? What's the proper way to lose a match? How do I make the people believe that that Babyface had a chance? So all of a sudden that's just at the mechanical level, basic booking level and performing. So all of a sudden this kid's on the top of a promotion. It's going to take him a while to fill in those shoes.

A (44:07)

And what I'm hoping with him too is we talk about Bray and the LA kind of falling on the laugh too much. And he's getting better about that, I think lately, maybe consciously, maybe by accident. But gender, the snarl, it's cartoonish, it's good. If you're doing a show aimed at like 10 year old boys, you're the bad guy and that's what you'd want to do. But WWE has this wide audience and I want. Jinder has a good look and I think a natural sense of. Or he gives off a natural vibe as a heel. Kind of like Lex Luger did where Lex didn't have to do a lot for people to go, I don't think I'm gonna like this guy. Like when he. Especially when he's a heel. And Jinder I think has that and I think he goes to that exaggerated snarl playing to the last row of the arena. And I'd say save that for house shows if you do it. But on tv, I think just walk into the ring and having the Singh brothers roll out, literally roll out the red carpet for you, the Indian rugs, and just act like everything in your life is perfect and pristine and if it's not, you lose it. You just like, that's. I think his Thing is, go be more subtle, I guess, is what I'm saying, because I think naturally people are going to dislike him if he carries himself with such pristine meticulousness that he does as he comes to the ring

B (45:19)

and what it is, he's trying too hard because he's, you know, he's. He's just. It's a little bit of an overact right now. That's not like, hey, man, you know, God damn it, when it's time for me to beat the fuck out of somebody and you're in that ring, it's a shoot to me. And so you ain't seeing no real acting. For me, that shit is real. So he's on the other side of that right now. If he can make that shit real, quote unquote, then it'll turn around for him. It won't be so stickish or, you know, character. Or character. You know what I'm saying?

A (45:51)

Yeah, totally.

B (45:52)

But when he says the modern day Maharajah, man, that's T shirt material right there. I mean, fuck, he's a heel. But I just like the modern day Maharajah shit, man. That dude could have all kinds of graphics and there's built in material right there. So I like that. The kid's got potential. Let's leave that and let's go to Randy Orton. Because he comes in and I had been following storylines, hits him with the RKO gender, sells it perfectly, and fucking Randy opens up and fires up and lets those people in. And as the two guys roll in, he slides out snake style, bangs his chest, and that little victory, that half victory lap that he made after he

A (46:33)

hit it like, whoo.

B (46:35)

And then he goes outside and he hit on that barricade and the fucking people came for him and he let them in. And I've been waiting for this. If Randy would just. I know he's been around forever now, he's an outstanding worker, but he just seems kind of inaccessible. And when he opens up, man, then people come for him. So that was the thing that I got excited about, the way he hit it, the fire and the way he let that crowd in and they responded accordingly by coming for him and coming with him. That's very important if you're trying to get over as a youngster or stay over or, you know, re establish yourself where he's at.

A (47:14)

I love the way you put that. I mean, you put to words what I've been trying to say about that. What he did with that RKO out of nowhere, being in the crowd, I thought it was just hilarious and so cool that he's standing in the crowd afterwards and he basically is photobombing. Not photobombing a guy, because that would be. He's posing for a selfie. Like there's a fan there. And Randy knows it. He's kind of in on. He's standing there and the guy's like, taking a selfie. And Randy's, like, looking out at the ring. I thought it was really cool television, letting the people in, opening up to them. That's something that has been, I think, limiting Randy and for him, I think it's a struggle for him to do it. And I don't know why I'm not here to psychoanalyze his character or how he. What happens when the red light comes on, but that is an issue with him as a babyface letting people in. And that is what happened. And I think beforehand, because I do a Monday through Friday, I do a news update for VIP members. So every afternoon I like preview raw, preview, smackdown, talk about the news, and I get my thoughts on what the segments they advertise ahead of time and what they should do. And I was talking about Randy, and I was like, randy needs to sell this match, but he's in that difficult position where a babyface knows they're not going to win, so they don't want to over promise because they're not going to win. And I was like, I just don't know how Randy and Jinder is going to work. And then they just outsmarted me, and they just had Randy not say anything and hit the RKO out of nowhere. Good camera work, good body language. And just in retrospect, it was clearly, I think, the right thing to do compared to Randy just saying some more words at Jinder's face.

B (48:40)

But still, here's the thing. You go into this match, you know you're thinking, jinder is going to win, right?

A (48:47)

Yeah, I think so.

B (48:48)

Okay, so if he does and his performance is good enough, then he goes higher up into people's eyes. And Randy, after being around all this time, if somehow, someway, whether it's a fuck job or whatever, but God damn it, if he puts the screws to him in the right fashion and he comes out on the bad side of it. Randy, it doesn't matter how long you've been in this shit. It's all about what you do in that ring and how that finish goes down or how the story got told or what these guys do in the ring. So whatever happens, I want to go along for I'm in. I want to see, just like I said, some of the other things that I'm in for. I'm in on this ride. I want to see how these guys execute come time for the match. But I like the setup. I think Jenner Mahal's got potential. We'll see what happens with that. Randy, I liked what he did, and, man, that's what I've always been wanting for him all these years. Man, when he does that, I love him.

A (49:40)

Now they announced on Smackdown that John Cena will be on the July 1st 4th Smackdown, which is good, you know, it's a holiday. Give people a reason to tune in or at least record it and watch it later. But this week, they announced that last week, this week they added to the graphic free agent John Cena, I'm thinking, and it's just. I'm just me kind of trying to figure out what they're going to do that John Cena's. They're going to present John as a free agent. He's going to act like he has a choice to go to Raw or smackdown, but he's going to declare he's staying in smackdown because he needs to take that belt away from Jinder and he's going to get, you know, he's going to get into preacher mode and talk about what Jinder's been saying about America and Americans and WWE fans. He's not going to stand for it. He's going to stay with smackdown because this is home and Jinder is in his home and he's going to kick him out the door at SummerSlam. That's my guess on what they're doing there. Otherwise, I'm not quite sure what the whole free agent thing's all about, other than, like I said, I think it's to build up some drama. And then Cena chooses smackdown, and that helps make smackdown seem like it's not the B show.

B (50:42)

Well, from what I gathered from watching the clip, because I watched the highlights on the WWE Network, you know, obviously, man, John's been everywhere hosting this, hosting that. I know just got finished filming his show. I mean, he's doing, you know, parts and movies, stuff like that. He's a super busy guy. So I think the fact that he has been gone for quite some time is obviously a lot of eyes and in my opinion, are going to tune in to see, hey, man, this is our guy. You love him, you hate him, and most people love him. The crowd just does what they do. You're interested in seeing what he's got to say I am at least. So I'm in.

A (51:14)

Yeah. Yeah. And it could be that they're going to give him the Undertaker treatment. You know, then Undertaker was a Smackdown, was, quote, property of Smackdown. But he, for WrestleMania's build, was on Raw. Maybe they're just. It's Vince's way to kind of free him up to let Cena float between brands, depending on who he wants him to feud with. And he's thinking, all right, seen as a free agent, he's going to work SummerSlam probably against Jinder. When I say probably, that's just me guessing. And then. But he wants him in the fall or in January for Rumble season to be a Raw guy, leading to mania. So maybe he's just trying to establish that now. I don't know. But again, the way. And what I said about Reigns, you build up with one week, big announcement from Reigns, it gives us something to talk about. People love that. And now we got July 4th. What's Cena going to say? And what does this free agent thing mean? So another good kind of cliffhanger.

B (52:00)

Okay, pick another segment for me because I have my notes. But you watch the entire show. I just watched Highlights.

A (52:07)

Yeah. I mean, it wasn't a real densely booked show. We had new day with a New Orleans band with Charlotte and Natalia and a pretty forgettable match. So there wasn't a lot. But they had the main events, three on three, all the Money in the bank participants. And we got Money in the bank on Sunday. Kevin Owens, Baron Corbin, Dolph Ziggler against aj, Styles, Shinsuke Nakamura and Sami Zayn. Did they show on the highlight package? You saw, Steve, the promo with Shinsuke, Styles and Sammy?

B (52:31)

No, I didn't see the promo.

A (52:33)

Okay. Yeah, because they're playing up, you know, that Sammy's this kind of flaky, talkative guy who's annoying and he's insecure and he just talks too much. And AJ was kind of priming Shinsuke on, hey, the Sammy guy we're teaming with, he talks a lot. Just be prepared. Then Sammy shows up and eventually talks a lot. Sammy walks away. AJ's kind of rolling his eyes. And Shinsuke goes, I kind of like this guy. And it's the beginning of something. And I don't know what it's the beginning of with Shinsuke and ej, but I think they're building up a bond between AJ and Shinsuke as friends, with the idea being something happens that leads to them fighting each other. Maybe at WrestleMania next year. But, you know, Some big show and we're seeing the seeds planted for AJ showing Shinsuke the way, you know, hey, there's this Sami Zayn guy. Now it's weird because Shinsuke should know him from nxt, but that's a whole other conversation. And so I was just curious about that. So I don't really know what to make of it yet. Maybe it's just a one off segment to fill time, but it seems like they're doing something with AJ and Shinsuke having a relationship and eventually having a reason to fight each other.

B (53:38)

Yeah, but what did I see the highlights on WWE Network when I saw, I thought I saw Sami Zayn Penn, Baron Corbin, and then, yeah, that's the match. That's the match. And then Shinsuke went to the top of the ladder and got the briefcase.

A (53:53)

I know, I've been joking. They can call off the match since Garrity won. But no, it's one of those silly things where they hang the briefcase above the ring like the WrestleMania logo, and it's just there so the announcers can talk about it. And they did this visual in a six man tag of Shinsuke showing, I guess to confirm to fans that he can climb a ladder and reach up and grab a briefcase. But it was not the finish of the match, the match of Sunday, but they wanted the visual of Shinsuke grabbing the briefcase because, you know, the reverse psychology events, it's heavy handed. Now fans are going to think Shinsuke is going to win, which pretty much tells you and me, he's for sure not winning.

B (54:25)

Well, man, you know, here's a note. I have a Sami Zayn promo in the back with one of the announcers and he's talking about, you know, somehow, you know, back in the day when he came to nxt, he's the underdog from the underground. And, you know, I don't know where it came from. And sure enough, it's here now. You know, I wish it would go away now. I'm kind of glad it's here. And so what I started feeling out of Sammy was. And I have, I have right here. I says, felt a little edge there. I liked it. Here's a guy that can work his ass off. And I'm seeing maybe that Sammy's going to ramp up some intensity because as he was in the highlight that I saw on the network, man, when he was crawling for that tag, it was a little over the top, but the guy, I agree. Okay, so you've got to. Sometimes you go belly down, get on your back, start pushing there's different ways to get there than that.

A (55:19)

That was a video to show in class about how not to tease a hot tag.

B (55:22)

Yes. But the guy could work his ass off. And I've been wanting him to turn the corner forever. He's a hell of a damn worker. But when he's in serious mode, and this backstage was him not trying to remember a bunch of garbage, I thought it was a lot more organic. And I just felt like, okay, man, I can identify with this guy a little bit better now. He's pretty cool. And I started feeling that edge, and I didn't think. I was thinking to myself, maybe here's a heel turn here. And if not a heel turn, I like the intensity or the organic nature vibe that I'm getting from this guy rather than that kind of, you know, shtick good guy type, you know, rally, you know, you know, I think he's a. He's a happy guy, you know, more power to him, but sometimes he's too happy. So I like the promo because I felt like, hey, man, this motherfucker might show me some edge. Now he can work his ass off, tone down some of the theatrics and fucking go.

A (56:20)

Well, I'm a huge fan of Sammy, and I think Vince is trying to figure out what to do with him. I mean, I don't think he's got it figured out yet. And I think the most of the work that Sammy has done lately has been Seinfeld character. A guy who just is a flake and people are embarrassed or just kind of when he walks in the room, they brace themselves for somebody who they don't want to spend time with. And that's not. That's just. I don't think that's. Sami's. The best way to portray Sami Zayn. He's so good in the ring, I thought it was interesting he won the match. I mean, to win the match. I thought that was a big moment for him. And because of the way he's been portrayed for the most part on promos, I think again, Corbin getting pinned, but then coming back strong with the ladder, not only against his opponents in that match, but also his two partners kind of set Corbin up psychologically as the guy who has no friends in the match. And again, because of Vince McMahon's tendency for heavy handed reverse psychology that makes me think Baron Corbin's a favorite to win on Sunday.

B (57:16)

They've been pushing this kid pretty hard for quite some time. And bow when Sammy came across in that big fight, foot in the mouth and Then you know, Baron tumbles down, Sammy jumps on top of him. I was glad to see the kid get beat. It makes me like him more because he's not getting. Hopefully they have big things for him and he can carry the load if they hand it to him. But too much too soon. You could almost be a Roman Reigns like the trouble that he's found by being kind of force fed. And so I thought that was possible with this Baron carbon. But they're beating him at the right times in my opinion. I think the kid has a lot of potential. We'll see if he can realize that potential. But the way they've taken care of him by beating him to me makes me like him more. And it was a great win for Sami Zayn the way he kicked the fuck out of him.

A (58:02)

What? Nakamura didn't do much in that match, the main event match on Tuesday night. And I'm nervous, like I'm not fully deciding. It's like they're screwing him up because I'm just, I'm just waiting and seeing. I'm open minded. But to me, Nakamura, if he's in the ring, it should be special. And he took a beating and then didn't really do a lot else in that match. And I just. Making Nakamura just another guy I think is risky. And I'm getting nervous about how Vince McMahon sees him and what he has planned with him. So anyway, I mean I just, I'm just kind of throwing it out there. I don't know how much you've seen of how they portrayed Nakamura so far, but I'm a little nervous. I think he's talented enough that if he turns it up he'll be fine. But I'm starting to wonder if Sammy, excuse me, if Nakamura is just at a point now where he's actually not going to be at the level he was in New Japan and that he's maybe going to be okay with that too, that he's going to be a dialed back kind of, you know, it's like the guy who shows up at the construction site who's new and goes, hey, let's double our productivity. And everyone looks at him and goes, no, you know, like did Sammy get that message? Like we're not doing strong style all the time now that said Sammy or I keep saying Sammy Nakamura when he was in Japan didn't work match of the Year candidates at house shows either. He turned it up when it was time. So I'm kind of hoping that's what's going on with Nakamura now. That he's. We haven't seen, other than the Sami Zayn match in nxt, we haven't seen a great Nakamura performance. We've seen some good ones, but I get nervous when I see a match like this and he just blends in.

B (59:51)

I just didn't, I didn't see him in a match like this. Yeah, so. And you know, going back to the match that he had with Dolph Ziggler, what, a month, six weeks ago, whenever it was. And on paper, well, if you had to say was it a good match or a bad match? You'd say, well, it was a good match. But again, exactly what I said last time. It didn't make me clamor for the next Shinsuke Nakamura match. You know, and Dolph has just been kind of, He's a great worker, great worker. But you know, they hadn't been booking him in the strongest fashion as of late. So, you know, that match was what it was. It wasn't anything spectacular. They put on one of those wrestling quote unquote clinics. And then as far as Shinsuke goes, I mean, three kind of high impact moves on a medium type comeback. No real monster fire or hey, fuck you, fire, sense of urgency to win, climb up the fucking ladder. It was just, it was what it was. It could have been so much better. So I don't know what they're going to do with this guy. And man, I know he's got all the built in world, he's charismatic, but his charisma is being lost by the positions that they're putting him in. And I don't mean any guilt by association towards the people that he's working with or doing the 6 mans or whatever they are with. Just his storylines hadn't been great at all.

A (61:23)

Clearly Vince McMahon decided not to portray him as the Brock Lesnar from Japan. And I don't mean like literally bullet point for bullet point resume. But this is a special guy who's not going to just show up on TV and wrestle one of the throwaway main events. We're going to make him a big fight, special attraction. We're going to build him up as this megastar from Japan. We're going to do sit down promos with him where he talks about he conquered Japan. He's for years been regarded as the best over there. He's come to wwe. That's too sports like for Vince. Like he doesn't think in that way. So he's trying to figure out what's, what is Shinsuke and how do we how's he going to relate to fans and bring smiles to their faces? And I think the most money to be made with Shinsuke was to put him in a position where he's like Brock, where when he wrestles it is special. And I just think all this time in NXT and now the way they portrayed him here, he's just become another. He's, I mean, he's a top guy, but he's another, just another top guy in the mix. And I think they lost some money by doing that and they got to rebuild it so that when he does have a big fight, it isn't just adding a good match to a show, but it's adding subscribers to the network. And I don't think they framed it that way yet.

B (62:29)

But the way you framed it when you were just describing to me, hey man, doing sit down interviews, what he did over in Japan, how he's come through here, worked his way through nxt, now he's come over here to the main roster and he's going to introduce everybody in the WWE locker room to what the fuck strong style is. And so, hey man, when you do that, you send a message. And boy, I'm waiting to see him. And aj, I'm waiting to see him. And Brock, I'm waiting to see him and every heavy hitter they have over there, you know, working Shinsuke strong style kind of match. And so they haven't been doing that. So he hasn't come off as special. That one night when they brought him out with those, I think you and I were talking a year ago and with all that, the violins and all that stuff and you loved it and I didn't because I just thought that guy should come out there and be ready to, you know, to beat some ass. And I know they wanted to make it special and it was. And probably I'm the only person in the universe that didn't really care for it, but I just think the guy should be presented in. He's a king of strong style. So present him in a shoot style. He's not the guy that's going to put a smile on everybody's face. He's the guy that's going to put a smile on your face because he just went out there and whipped ass in a very efficient strong style format, which is his method, method of operation. So, hey man, you're going to have people that put smiles on faces, literally, and you're going to have those guys that just light up a wrestling ring, my style or stuff that I want to see. And that's that guy's work style. I've seen his stuff in Japan. That's what I want to see, how that guy can work his ass off. Let him go do it.

A (64:01)

Yeah. There's really nothing else that jumps out to me. Steve on smackdown, it was not a super dense show, but that Money in the bank is on Sunday and they've got the women. Money in the bank match.

B (64:12)

That's going to be interesting. That's going to be interesting. I missed the kendo stick match between. Who was that? It was Bailey and Alexa Bliss. Bliss. So anyway, I just did. I want to discuss it now. So I'd never seen a kendo stick match between two women. So now with the money in the bank, this is the first one ever, right?

A (64:29)

Yeah.

B (64:29)

So that's going to be interesting to see how that story plays out.

A (64:33)

If my first reaction when this was first rumored last year was I was kind of against it. I mean, I'm a little worn out on Money in the bank matches in general and ladder matches basically in general. I think it's just too many spots that don't without long term selling. Guys are. It's taken a lot of bumps off their bump card and it numbs the fans to things that should mean more later in the show. So I'm just kind of like. I think I'm kind of not super excited about ladder matches in general. And then you put the women in there and I'm just like, you know, man, they're going to try to go out there and prove that they deserve this format and it could just end up being a mess and people get hurt. And then I saw the brawl a couple weeks ago on smackdown, the ringside brawl, and the women were great. Like, I mean, everybody involved in that brawl who's basically in this match, they were great. They really milked the spot. Well, they didn't overdo it. Everybody kind of had their different techniques for what they were doing. That was kind of their physically bruising approach to this just crazy, unhinged brawl at ringside. And I was like, you know what? They won me over. I kind of want to see this. And I think they deserve a chance in an iconic match like Money in the bank to prove and not have everyone be protective of the women because they're women and just give them a chance to go out there and prove that they can have a good match that doesn't go overboard trying to prove something that doesn't need to be proven. But they can tell a good story and Utilize the ladders and the money in the bank concept. I've come around to saying, yeah, I think it's going to sell some network subs and I think they deserve a chance to show they can do it.

B (66:00)

Man, I never was a big money in the bank guy. In the same way that the Royal Rumble has afforded people opportunities or pushes, this does facilitate that. So I get it. I guess my basic logic goes to what you just said, man. I only like a ladder match every now and then and it's few and far between because I think they're so damn risky and there's only so many ways you can push the envelope in those things. Then you got a bunch of guys out there doing whatever and they got to climb up that damn ladder to get that thing. So you know me, I'm not a huge fan of the format. I understand the concept. I wish everybody well. I hope I have a lights out bad ass match for the men and the women. But for me, man, like you said, man, bumps on the bump card. Then all of a sudden, hey, man, heard on the podcast, Steve thinks these things are dangerous. We better slow down. You ain't going to listen to me. I'm just saying that's just my take on it. I think there's a better way to do it. I don't know what that way is. I ain't going to come up with it on the podcast, but. And it's just okay if you can do, if you can pull up, if you can pull off everything in a safe fashion, but it doesn't look cookie cutter. Okay, then go for it. But if it's cookie cutter, man, you can see through that shit, then that's when I don't like it. You understand what I'm saying?

A (67:26)

No, I do, I do. I'm with you. And I mean, it's risk with doing an annual match instead of bringing out a special match when it just is called for. But I mean, they talk about the women's revolution. They want to give the women a chance.

B (67:44)

I'm all about the women getting the shout. Just like the guys, sticks, whatever they got, the women should be able to do everything the guys do. So I'm down with that. But just as far as the concept, it's a little iffy for me. Baby. Talk about the Smackdown thing. I talked about it a while ago on the Raw segment. Mo Jo Raleigh interview backstage again. Since I already kind of said my piece in the early part of the podcast. I just like this guy's interview style. Haven't Seen a whole lot of his work yet. I don't know if he's a real formula type worker, but just as far as I think there's a charisma off this guy. He's got something. He's got a real ease with words. And I thought the way he presented them came off as organic as hell. And you know, it's nice to see Zack Ryder make an appearance and come back and say they've got business to settle to together as a tag team. But there's no reason to just jump off and say, hey, this kid's the next big star. I'm just saying to those people that are trying to cut a promo, watch how easy this guy pulls this thing off. And it's not like he's been around the horn for a million years either. He's only going to get better. But I thought it was a really solid interview by the kid backstage and

A (68:53)

I like that he's playing against Hype because he's the hype, bro. He's the guy who's just, ah, you know, always just way over the top with his energy level and it can cause some people to get uncomfortable. And that's kind of his shtick. You know, he and Zach Ryder on the same wavelength. He and Gronkowski are on the same wavelength. I love that he lost. And he's showing that he can be introspective, he can be reflective, he can be calm. And when he talks like that, I listen way closer to what he says than what he's yelling and going over the top. So I actually hope we kind of see more of that. I don't know what they're. I mean, Hype rolls are back together. That probably means he's going into the tag division. But after winning the under the giant Battle Royale at Mania, and because Zack Ryder was hurt, he had a chance to break out the last couple months as a single star and he really didn't. But I don't think it was his fault. Like I actually think it just didn't fit within the scheme to give him more of a push. I wish they did give him more of a push. I wish he had a chance to feud with a higher level heel and be portrayed as his equal. But instead he was fed to gender last week, which I actually liked the way they did it, but I liked what I saw. I was ready for him to move up a little bit more and show if he could do more. And I think he was pegged by Vince at a certain level. Even with a battle royal Win. And now he's back in the tag division. I don't know that it's a demotion, but I think there was a lost opportunity by wwe, not in these last couple months, trying to get a little bit more out of him and test what that ceiling is for him.

B (70:18)

A few key things within that promo were also Wade, that he says, hey, man, you know, I lost that match. That's on me. You know, hey, boy. And then he says, you know, Gender Mahal, you know, getting beat by Jinder Mahal, he's not the same guy. He's not the same guy I beat two months ago. Meaning gender's improved. So he puts. He puts gender over, elevates him in a promo, right? And then he says, but, you know, a loss like that, a loss like that is devastating. It's devastating. You goddamn right it is. Wins and losses matter. So this. Yeah. The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat. And so, man, here is a loss is devastating. Yes, it is. If you're in the playoffs. We just saw the Cavs in Golden State. Wins and losses matter. So the fact that he said that in that promo, I was like, yeah, thank you. Because they do this 50, 50 booking and all this bullshit. Wins and losses matter. When the kid verbalizes it, I feel for him.

A (71:15)

Own the finish, too. If you do a finish, own it. Not. Not. And I don't mean Mojo. Well, you can say Mojo, but the company, the bookers, Vince McMahon, if you do a finish, turn it into something. So if somebody loses, yes, that should be part of their journey. And you shouldn't run from it. You should talk about it. You should have the announcers talk about it. And they do it selectively. But you're right, this was an example of Mojo doing it. I love when the. I love the thrill of victory and agony of defeat being incorporated into Vince McMahon's vision of sports entertainment. Because I think the more wins and losses matter, the more fans are going to care about near falls, submission holds, and the very thought that something is at stake in a match other than trying to bring a smile to my face and entertain me for 10 minutes. This is part of a journey, an ongoing story. And what happens at the end of this match counts for next week and the week after, and they don't stick to that as much as I would like. And I think it's a tool that when you use it, it's always sharp, it always works. So use it. Don't run from it. Even though, quote, people know it's a work that doesn't matter. You're telling a story, make sure that wins and losses are part of it.

B (72:17)

And you know that putting smiles on people's faces has turned into a cliche. And to me, the best way you entertain someone is just by giving them just a great product of sports entertainment, professional wrestling. The smiles are going to come when the good guys win or, you know, when you. When your guy gets his revenge or gets his comeback or whatever. It's not a literal smile. I don't want to watch the show and always have a smile on my face because they want me to smile. Take me on a ride, take me on a journey. I want to buy in. I wrestle for 15 years, but I'm a fan, so just let me watch a show and just buy in. Don't worry about my smiling. I'll smile when you all do something right and do something good that I can sink my teeth in and enjoy. Here's one last thing. We're going to talk about the fashion files, and I'm going to throw this one at you from left field because it's Fandango and Tyler Breeze here in my notes. Very corny, but I really popped. Here's two guys. I like Tyler Breeze's gimmick, what he was doing down there in nxt. And then Fandango with the dancing thing. It wasn't my cup of tea, but all of a sudden they put these guys together. Marie Zango, or whatever you call him. But it's very corny, but God damn it, they pull it off. As far as a 1 out of 10. They pull it off with a 10. If you're going to do some comedy or some entertainment or some levity, do it at a high level. When Tyler Breeze is laying there after Fandangle's been staring at himself, talking about his pecs in the mirror, and it's voiceover style. And then he goes and finds someone, Shit, Can Tyler beat the shit out of him? And then Fandango draws the picture of him while he's describing him, and the guy says, tyler said one arm. No, no, no, two arms. It was just. I'm a serious wrestling fan, but there's a place on the card for some levity, and that was done. So I give props to both of those guys for finding their way and doing a great job with the gimmick. I really enjoyed it, and I'm hardcore wrestling. It was good shit.

A (74:27)

I was on record on my Post Smackdown show last night agreeing with you. I wrote it in my report. So we're just so, you know, I'm in agreement. And I'm not just reacting to you liking it. I wrote on Tuesday night on PWTorch.com I found that pretty funny actually, start to finish. And it didn't overstay its welcome.

B (74:43)

No.

A (74:44)

And I said too, one thing I liked about it is Fandango's deadpan delivery and Tyler Breeze's earnestness. Like the combination of those two, there's a chemistry. But the Fandango deadpan, it works. And I mean like Fandango admiring himself in the mirror and saying, I gotta go show these off to my main man Breezy. It's like, who would, like who would say that? And with a straight face and then go, want to show off to his friend, his pet? I don't know. Yeah, it worked. It was funny. And I think the key here too was they didn't overstay their welcome. Like they were in and they were out. You know, that segment didn't last long. And that's where those segments go off the rails. I thought they found this was the best one that they've done.

B (75:26)

Okay, well that's all I have on my notes. Now. Here's the thing.

A (75:29)

We got big fucking breaking news. Well, we got USA Today, August 26th, Mayweather McGregor.

B (75:37)

Holy shit, that's gonna happen.

A (75:40)

Well, USA Today's reported that two people familiar with the negotiations say it has been scheduled now for Las Vegas, August 26th.

B (75:48)

God damn. That's right around the corner.

A (75:51)

Yeah, well, it's a few days after SummerSlam.

B (75:54)

Okay, man. Do you follow boxing?

A (75:57)

No, no, I'm a MMA and pro wrestling guy. But not a boxing guy.

B (75:59)

I'm not either. I mean, back in the day when Hagler, Hearns, Sugar Ray, all those guys, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, and that's when I followed boxing. But you know, in the days and the years that have gone by, I just fell off of it. So here's the thing. God dang. Mayweather, kind of a defensive minded fighter. Know he's hard to hit if Conner hits him. And I'm an MMA guy, but I'm not a technical MMA guy. If Conor can tag that guy, he'll knock him in the next week. That's a big if. But. And on the other side of that, I don't think that Mayweather can hurt Connor. Conor's tough as nails, so it's going to be a damn interesting fight. I mean, if Mayweather can just pepper him because I'm sure he has a quickness advantage over Conor. Dude, this is me. I'm an armchair MMA Pro wrestling guy talking about a boxing fight. But I don't know, I just think it would be unbelievable to see. It would be awesome to see Conor win that fight. And it's going to be a spectacle just to see how the fight goes down.

A (77:06)

I agree. I mean, I. The people who know more than me about MMA and boxing say there's. Conor has no chance with boxing rules because a lifetime of technique goes into boxing a certain way when you're not worried about being taken down and that Conor is going to be vulnerable in that way because this is Floyd's playground. And I don't. I don't know enough to authoritatively disagree with that. But Conor is something special and he is going to have. He is a phenomenal athlete. You know, there's guys who can cross over and learn things. Kurt Angle, you know, what he did from Olympic wrestling in order and then became a great pro wrestler. Brock Lesnar, NCAA heavyweight Champion, became a great worker in the ring at wwe, you can adapt if you're a great athlete to different things. I think Conor has a chance to adapt quickly. And what you said, he can take a punch and he can deliver a punch, and he's a really smart guy. I don't think what he did in UFC in such a short amount of time and dominating the way that he did can be discounted, even if it's not his playground and it's the boxing, it's a boxing environment. So, I mean, if you force me right now to put, you know, $10,000 down on somebody, I'm putting it on Floyd because it's a boxing match.

B (78:20)

Right.

A (78:20)

But I'm not willing to say it's not going to be a fun discussion for the next two months. Plus, to speculate about this is something where I think there is a chance it can go either way.

B (78:32)

Well, I mean, they always say in any fight, you know, you got a fighter's chance. You know, all it takes is one shot from Connor, that's all. And however many rounds of fighting, all he's got to do is land that one magical shot. And I know he can absorb everything Mayweather can throw. And this is not any disruption, disrespect at all to Floyd Mayweather. And there's going to be plenty of boxing experts who say, hey, man, Steve Austin's stupid as shit. But hey, man, I'm kind of with you if I was going to say, okay, you're forced to bet right now. Go $10,000. The safe money is going to be on Floyd. But I don't know, dude, it's going to be hard to beat Conor McGregor, I think. I really do. Well, obviously Mayweather's a champ, right?

A (79:17)

Yep.

B (79:18)

You got to beat the hell out of the champ, take the belt. I don't know if he'll be able to hit him that much. On the other side of that, how many times is Mayweather going to be able to just try to get inside and just tee off on Connor to effectively win the fight? Again, man, I don't know boxing, so I'll shut the fuck up. I'll be I ain't bought a boxing pay per view in years, but I'll buy that one just so I can watch Conor McGregor and Mayweather fight. But I buy it for confidence. McGregor.

A (79:41)

Yes, I agree.

B (79:43)

Well, you know what, we were supposed to talk for 15 minutes and we talked for an hour 16. This is going to be my Thursday Unleashed podcast, but it was good talking with you and good catching up with you. We're going to continue doing this for a while and just kind of doing highlights of Raw and Smackdown. We'll obviously try to do a little bit quicker fashion, but we had plenty to discuss and I didn't even want to watch the show, so. So when I bring myself up to speed, watch some shows, we'll have a lot of fun with this. But I wanted to kick the first one off just because I enjoy talking about the business with you. We talk every now and then on the phone about the business and a lot of insider stuff that you just can't get out there or nature of the business that we like to discuss in private. But on a podcast, it's always good to share opinions and talk about what's going on in both landscapes of Raw and Smackdown.

A (80:33)

It's always enjoyable. Steve. Yeah, definitely a lot to talk about this week.

B (80:36)

Well, give me a long story short on how people can find Wade Keller.

A (80:40)

Pwtorch.com pwtorchlivecast.com and follow me on Twitter at the Wade Keller and wtorch.

B (80:48)

All right, Wade Keller on vacation, Colorado. Have a good time.

A (80:52)

Thanks, Steve. We'll talk to you next week.

B (80:54)

All right, everybody, give me the Go home. Q. It's time to wrap up his podcast and ride off into the sunset. But before I do, I want to thank Wade Keller, the Pro Wrestling Torch, for joining me on the podcast today. I was originally going to air the phone calls that I took in the studio a couple of Saturdays ago from you guys. I appreciate all the phone calls. Me and Wade spun way out of control. It Was a damn good time spending some time talking about Monday Night Raw and smackdown. I love to talk about pro wrestling. I love what happens inside the squared circle. I love the angles, I love the storylines. I love to see who's getting over how they're getting over what they're doing, what they're seeing, saying how they're working. I like pro wrestling, so it's fun to talk about it. I'm going to air the first session of phone calls coming next Thursday on the Unleashed show. Wade will be down to a 15 minute slot and we're going to have fun and chop it up in short fashion. I could talk to that guy all damn day. Thank you, Wade for being on the show. Look forward to talking to you next week and more in the future. Hey man, I gotta give you guys something to watch. And what I was watching on the WWE Network, it caught my eye was Brock Lesnar and Samoa Joe. The pull apart in slow motion. Man, it was a pretty damn epic pull apart. Those things can be clusterfucks if not executed in a proper fashion. Both of these guys were hotter than hell. That superkick towards the end right there when Samoa Joe tagged Brock and Brock just had this look on his face like, oh, motherfucker, I'm gonna beat the shit out of you. You. I tell you what, great execution on everybody's part. I look forward to seeing these guys have a badass match. Samoa Joe is one of my favorite workers and Jesus Christ, Brock Lesnar, goddamn, this is going to be a hell of a match. I'm looking forward to it. Brock Lesnar is a bad sombitch, so I'm looking forward to that. Check that out. If you're on the WWE Network, check out that segment where Randy Orton catches that RKO on Jinder Mahal. That was a great spot and I enjoyed Fandango and Tyler Breeze. That segment was damn good too. I like the Mojo Raleigh interview. You can catch that on the highlight package as well. And check out that Sami Zayn promo as well. I like that fire in there. And so there's a bunch of little segments that you can watch on WWE Network. And this ain't no plug. That's some shit that I really enjoyed. So it was fun talking about it. Anyway, let me wrap his up. I got some T shirts over Pro Wrestling Austin teased.com SteveAustin we're about to start filming here in July. We're going to come up with some more. They're pretty badass in my opinion. Best damn IPA on the planet is Broken Skull IPA and you can get Broken Skull IPA at Whole Foods and Total Wines if you live in California. If you ain't in Cali, check insidethecellar.com and see if they ship to your state. And you can find everything Steve Austin related including the cold steel Broken Skull knife and a working Man's Knife at broken skull ranch.com youm can also check out the commercial spots I shot for the Kawasaki Mule Pro FXR and the Kawasaki Mules on my website. If you just go to home page and scroll down to the bottom. I had a lot of fun doing those. The Kawasaki Pro FX Pro, FXT Pro FX R and the Mules are badass. I enjoy riding them. I want to say one more time thank you to all you people for calling into the studio the other day. And I also want to say thank you to all the fine sponsors of the Steve Austin show because that's how I'm able to do this podcast for you twice a week for free. And you can find all of my sponsors@podcast1.com just click on the Killer Deal button at the top of the page and then click on the Steve Austin show banner. Hey folks, keep listening. The 62nd AP news headlines are coming up next and until then, my name is Steve Austin and I will catch your ass down the road. Download new episodes of Steve Austin Unleashed

A (84:48)

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B (85:04)

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A (85:06)

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