Could Reform surge in Scotland?

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: The Story by The Times
Episode: Could Reform surge in Scotland?
Air Date: May 5, 2026
Hosts: Manveen Rana, Luke Jones

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Episode Overview

This episode, hosted by Manveen Rana, explores the shifting political allegiances in Scotland ahead of the local Holyrood elections, focusing particularly on the town of Motherwell. Once a steel industry powerhouse and historic Labour heartland, Motherwell's political landscape is changing, with notable voter disaffection toward Labour and new enthusiasm for the insurgent Reform party. Through on-the-ground interviews and expert insight, the episode examines what’s driving these changes, the socioeconomic backdrop, and the possible implications for Scottish politics.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Motherwell: From 'Steelopolis' to Political Crossroads

• Background: Motherwell, historically prosperous due to its steelworks (“Steelopolis”), now faces deprivation and economic challenges after industrial decline.
  • [01:38] Ross Thompson: “There is deprivation in this constituency, there's no doubt about that. People feel that they haven't been listened to...”
  • [01:52] Manveen Rana details the physical remnants of the town’s better days and its shifting political history.

2. Voter Disillusionment and Evolving Allegiances

• Labour’s Decline: Longstanding Labour voters express disappointment, finding them too similar to Conservatives or out-of-touch.

  • [02:39] Local Voter 1: “Because they're almost like the Conservatives now, I would say, and I want to be as far from that as possible.”
  • [03:16] Manveen Rana: The unpopularity of the Starmer government in Westminster affects Scottish Labour’s prospects at home.

• Rise of Reform: Some voters now say they’ll vote for Reform UK, citing dissatisfaction with both Labour and SNP.

  • [04:14] Local Voter 1: “Yeah, yeah.”
  • [05:52] Manveen Rana asks why; [05:55] Local Voter 2: “I just think that's the best option. Because the SNP are just kind of ruining the country.”

• Policy Concerns: Local issues cited include high cost of living, empty high streets, housing shortages (with references to immigration), and a desire for tangible action.

  • [06:05] Local Voter 2: “All the immigrants coming in and taking all the houses. There's people been waiting in houses for years...”
  • [06:49] Local Voter 2: “It's just all empty, everything's shut... there’s like six vape shops up here. There's nothing here.”
  • [07:05] Local Voter 2: “I just feel like they would get me a done like nobody else is getting anything done.”

3. Westminster’s Shadow over Scottish Politics

• Impact of UK Leadership: Dislike of Keir Starmer frequently cited—even where voters otherwise see Labour as their natural home.

  • [08:21] Local Voter 3: “Yeah, definitely. Why vote Labour? But no Starmer in charge. Clown. So I think I'll probably SMP or the Greens.”
  • [09:21] Ross Thompson (voter): “I don't like Keir Starmer. I think he's a liar. I don't trust him.”

• Alternative Leaders: Andy Burnham is mentioned as a Labour politician whom disaffected voters would support.

  • [09:01] Local Voter 3: “He's somebody I would certainly vote for.”

4. Local Analysis: Ross Thompson, Wishaw Press Editor

• [10:02] Ross Thompson explains that people expected more from Labour at Westminster, and suggests a Scottish Labour leadership change may have helped.

  • “I think people were expecting more from a UK government, which is perceived not to be the Tories. What they've seen from Labour, they've not been impressed by...”

• Labour’s vulnerability to Westminster politics is a persistent theme.

  • [10:42] “It's amazing how decisions in Westminster continue to affect Labour in Scotland. It really is unbelievable.”

• Electoral Mechanics: Thompson details the Scottish Parliament’s additional list system and how fragmentation of the Unionist vote (by Reform’s rise) might benefit SNP.

  • [13:43] “You have two votes… your constituency will have SNP, Labour, Lib Dem, Conservative and Reform...”

5. Economic Hardship and Social Stagnation in Motherwell

• Communities in Crisis: In Forgewood, one of Motherwell’s most deprived estates, community workers Richard Bolton and Paul Murphy describe entrenched poverty, mental health challenges, addiction, social isolation, and a loss of hope.
  • [16:29] Richard Bolton: “Forge Wood is part of Motherwell and it sits in the most deprived communities in Scotland. There's real challenges locally... underpinned by poverty here.”
  • [20:51] Richard Bolton: “...there's probably a lack of hope and a lack of realization that things can change. And I think that's the biggest thing.”
  • [21:09] Paul Murphy: “I think people get jaded, don’t they?... they’re maybe looking for something new.”

6. Motherwell’s Legacy and Regeneration: Historical Perspective

• Industrial Heritage: Visit to Motherwell Heritage Museum – discussion of the town’s rise with the Victorian steel boom and its precipitous decline following the closure of the Ravenscraig steelworks in the 1990s.

  • [25:54] Justin Parks: “If you look beyond the tower block and beyond the DL Steel Works... it was a colossal integrated steelworks. The site closed in the 1990s and it's being cleared and it's slowly being redeveloped.”
  • Emotional impacts of industrial decline, including mass unemployment, addiction, and multi-generational trauma.
  • [28:46] Justin Parks: “It's affected people in lots of ways… a very traumatic time. And yet I've had people crying, talking to me about their experiences…”

• Signs of Hope: The site’s contemporary regeneration into a sports centre, college, and housing—though economic recovery remains incomplete.

  • [29:39] “...there’s a sports center... a college on the site and there's housing beginning to be built... it does feel now more like things are moving.”

7. An Uncertain Political Future

• Confused Loyalties: On the ground, voters express a mix of party loyalties: old Labour voters considering Reform, SNP stalwarts, and others drifting to Greens or remaining undecided.

  • [32:52] Local Voter 2: “I think if I was going to sway one way of potentially talking SNP, which would be the first time I've done that, really.”
  • [33:45] Richard Bolton (older voter): “The reason for voting Labour is to so that try and stop SNP getting in again. And I honestly think that Mr Sarwar will do a good job for Scotland.”

• Election as Referendum on Westminster:

  • [34:59] Manveen Rana: “Is there that sort of, like, disconnect? People are voting the Scottish elections, but this feels like a referendum on Westminster.”
  • [35:07] Ross Thompson: “I think it's unfortunate for Labour because they just. They rode the coattails of the success that Starmer and co had in the run up to the general election...”

• Reform’s Prospects:

  • [35:39] Ross Thompson: “In 2024, Reform got around 3,000 votes... Can they build on that? I think they probably can. Will it be enough for them to get elected? I don't think so, but it will certainly be a real wake up call to other parties.”

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Labour’s Loss of Identity:
  “Because they're almost like the Conservatives now, I would say, and I want to be as far from that as possible.” - Local Voter 1 [02:39]

• On Disappointment with Politics:
  “It's just all empty, everything’s shut... this used to be one of the best places to go for shopping and people can't afford to have written shutting.” - Local Voter 2 [06:49]

• On the Loss of Hope:
  “So much has been long term problems... things haven’t improved year and year and year that I think there’s a lack of hope that there’ll be any change.” - Richard Bolton [20:51]

• On Memories of Ravenscraig:
  “I've had people crying, talking to me about their experiences of Raven's crate closing. One man whose father worked with him in Ravenscraig and his father died of a heart attack... he puts it down to the stress." – Justin Parks [28:46]

• On an Unpredictable Political Contest:
  “All bets could be off on election night. It could be very exciting.” - Ross Thompson [36:45]

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Key Timestamps

• 01:38 – Introduction to Motherwell’s economic and political history
• 02:33-07:42 – Motherwell voters express disenchantment and switching allegiances
• 09:21 – Critiques of Labour leadership (Starmer) and talk of alternatives like Andy Burnham
• 10:02-15:38 – Ross Thompson’s local analysis on electoral dynamics and the additional member system
• 16:10-21:42 – Community leaders on poverty, social challenges, and the effects on local psyche
• 25:54-29:39 – Justin Parks on industrial decline, Ravenscraig, and regeneration efforts
• 31:18-34:30 – Current voter views: some moving toward SNP, Green, or Conservatives, and an older voter still supporting Labour
• 34:59-36:45 – Discussion on Westminster’s impact and Reform’s electoral chances
• 37:12-37:45 – Roll call of parties standing in the election, highlighting breadth of choice

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Takeaways

• The political scene in Motherwell typifies broader volatility in Scottish politics, with voters jaded by ‘business as usual’ and open to alternatives, including previously fringe parties.
• National leadership and policy decisions at Westminster heavily influence local sentiment, particularly regarding Labour.
• Economic hardship, the legacy of deindustrialization, and a perceived lack of opportunity create fertile ground for new political movements—even those at odds with previous local traditions.
• The upcoming election is unpredictable, with Reform’s surge threatening to split the Unionist vote and potentially benefiting the SNP. Several voters remain undecided or are switching allegiances for the first time in decades, reflecting deeper structural frustrations.

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This episode paints a vivid picture of a community at a crossroads—economically, historically, and politically—offering a compelling window into the forces shaping Scotland's election and its future.

Transcript

[Ross Thompson]

Par le tu francais hablas espanol? Par le italiano.

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[Manveen Rana]

A better help add hold on one second, I just need to. What if you had a room where no one interrupts? No notifications, no expectations, just space to talk with. BetterHelp therapy happens in a space that's yours. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy. From the Times and the Sunday Times, this is the story. I'm Manveen Rana.

[Richard Bolton]

Okay, folks, in a few minutes time

[Ross Thompson]

the train will be arriving in Motherwell

[Manveen Rana]

for the last of our reports ahead of the local elections. We've arrived in Scotland.

[Ross Thompson]

There is deprivation in this constituency, there's no doubt about that. People feel that they haven't been listened to. People want good, well paid jobs as they had when the steelworks was here.

[Manveen Rana]

Motherwell is a town that has seen better days. There are still some beautiful old buildings in the centre, a grand old library, a Victorian town hall that's being converted into flats, and some stately villas that used to house the rich owners of the steelworks that made Motherwell famous. This used to be known as Steelopolis. Just 13 miles from Glasgow, this was also a historic Labour stronghold. But now, as people prepare to cast their votes in the Hollywood elections on Thursday, allegiances are changing. How would you normally vote Labour?

[Local Voter 1]

I would normally vote Labour.

[Manveen Rana]

And what's made you change your mind? Why would you not vote Labour now?

[Local Voter 1]

Because they're almost like the Conservatives now, I would say, and I want to be as far from that as possible.

[Local Voter 2]

Somebody needs to come in and actually do something because this is a disaster. Like people can't afford anything. Like the price of petrol as well. It was crazy. I think they're focusing on the rang hinks.

[Local Voter 3]

That's the energy stumbling from one disaster to another. I mean, every week there's a new story. I mean, they've always voted Labour, voted Labour all their lives. But it's terrible how one man can change a life team of voting for the one party.

[Manveen Rana]

Although this is an election for the Scottish Parliament, it's what's happening in Westminster that seems to be changing votes here.

[Ross Thompson]

Labour just need to just get their house in order at Westminster. It seems to watch from crisis to crisis and that's just a knife into the heart of Hannah Sarwa and Scottish Labour. Unfortunately for them, this was supposed to

[Manveen Rana]

be the election where Labour was hoping to reclaim Holyrood after a decade of the SNP being in power. But with the unpopularity of the Starmer government looming large, the polls have rapidly reversed. Now it's the battle for second place in these elections that could reshape Scottish politics for years to come, as an unlikely party emerges from the fallout. How have you voted in the past?

[Local Voter 2]

Labour.

[Manveen Rana]

And now you're switching to reform.

[Local Voter 1]

Yeah, yeah.

[Local Voter 2]

Reform, I think. Labor to reform.

[Manveen Rana]

What's driving this shift in support and what will it mean for labor north of the border? The story today.

[Ross Thompson]

Why is reform surging in Scotland?

[Manveen Rana]

First impressions? Surprisingly. Sunny.

[Local Voter 1]

Lovely.

[Manveen Rana]

On a bright spring morning. My producer Taryn and I have made our way to Motherwell. So we're at the station. The sign says Motherwell and underneath it says Toba na Mata, which I've probably completely misprinted pronounce. Motherwell has a population of roughly 33,000 people and it sprawls over 14 square kilometers. And right at the heart of the town is the Motherwell Shopping Center. This is an open air, pedestrianized parade of purpose built concrete shopping units. There are benches place every few meters along the alley that runs between the shops. And on this sunny afternoon, there's a crowd of people milling around. Excuse me. Away from the times. We're just talking to people about the local elections. I wondered what you're thinking.

[Local Voter 2]

I don't really know. Reform, I think.

[Manveen Rana]

Really? And why?

[Local Voter 2]

I don't want Labour in anymore. The one that could save Tristan anymore.

[Manveen Rana]

What's your great disappointment with them? What is it that makes you feel like I can't vote for them again?

[Local Voter 2]

All the immigrants coming in and taking all the houses. There's people been waiting in houses for years. That lives here. You know, it's not fair.

[Manveen Rana]

How have you voted in the past?

[Local Voter 2]

Labour.

[Manveen Rana]

And now you're switching to reform.

[Local Voter 2]

Yeah.

[Local Voter 1]

Yeah.

[Manveen Rana]

You're gonna be voting yes. Do you know which way Reform?

[Local Voter 2]

I think.

[Manveen Rana]

Tell me why.

[Local Voter 2]

I just think that's the best option. Because the SNP are just kind of ruining the country.

[Manveen Rana]

Maybe.

[Local Voter 2]

I don't. I just. I feel like that's the right choice. I used to vote Labor.

[Manveen Rana]

So what do you think of the issues around here that will, you know, what do people want to change? What are they hoping?

[Local Voter 2]

It's just all empty, everything's shut and it's. I mean, there's like six vape shops up here. There's nothing here. And this used to be one of the best places to go for shopping and people can't afford to have written shutting.

[Manveen Rana]

What are you hoping reform will be able to do?

[Local Voter 2]

I just feel like they would get me a done like nobody else is getting anything done. Like everybody keeps saying we're going to do this, this and this. And it's like ever since they voted to come out of Europe, it's just a disaster.

[Manveen Rana]

So you do think leaving Europe was. Was a disaster?

[Local Voter 2]

Yes, I would say so.

[Manveen Rana]

But reform are big sort of Brexiteers. Is that not a worry?

[Local Voter 2]

Iron? No. I feel like we're already. It's already done, but I feel like the damage is done. It cannot get any worse. So it can only get better.

[Manveen Rana]

And it's not just reform reform who are picking up support from voters who are abandoning Labour.

[Local Voter 1]

It's a shame because normally I do a political vote and vote for Labour. So I think that we've seen SNP up here and I think they've made a bit of a mess of everything, especially with the North Lanarkshire Council. Then we got a Labour leader and he was just as bad, if not worse. So green. That's why I've gone green. And I'm definitely not reform. I would. I'd rather not vote and I would never waste a vote. They're bad, bad people. This is my husband. I was just asked my husband this morning, what were you going to vote? And he didn't know.

[Manveen Rana]

Still undecided?

[Local Voter 3]

Yeah, definitely. Why vote Labour? But no Starmer in charge. Clown. So I think I'll probably SMP or the Greens.

[Manveen Rana]

That's so interesting. So it's. It's Starmer and it's what's happening in Westminster that will stop you voting Labour up here for the Scottish Parliament.

[Local Voter 3]

Yeah. Because whatever London says is what the Scottish Labour is going to do. So unless that changes and I can't see anything but just Starmers have been a disaster for day one. It really is.

[Local Voter 1]

And you should maybe get Andy Burnham to do it. If the people like him.

[Local Voter 3]

He's somebody I would certainly vote for.

[Local Voter 1]

Yeah, definitely.

[Manveen Rana]

So would you switch back to labor from the greens if Andy Bernard 100. I'm assumed absolutely. A few Benches away and well out of earshot. The next group we spoke to said almost exactly the same thing.

[Ross Thompson]

I don't like Keir Starmer. I think he's a liar. I don't trust him. And if it was Andy Berman, it was around that maybe considered him, but not Keir Starmer. He's got no backbone, nothing. I don't think you'll see Keir Starmer campaigning in this constituency, our constituencies like it, anytime soon.

[Manveen Rana]

To understand why people are switching their votes and how much what's happening in Westminster is influencing voters here in Scotland, I met up with Ross Thompson, the editor of the local paper, the Wishaw Press. We met inside a quiet room at the rather grand Motherwell Library.

[Ross Thompson]

I think people were expecting more from a UK government, which is perceived not to be the Tories. What they've seen from Labour, they've not been impressed by. I think they were expecting more change,

[Manveen Rana]

given how unpopular Keir Starmer is. You know, walking around here, do you think if they had had a change of leader before these elections, do you think Labour would have done better?

[Ross Thompson]

Oh, absolutely, yeah. I gave the campaign a shot in the arm in terms of, you know,

[Manveen Rana]

so when Anna saw, sort of called for him to resign, if something had happened then, if they'd switched leader just even a couple of months ago, I

[Ross Thompson]

think it would have helped him. It's amazing how decisions in Westminster continue to affect Labour in Scotland. It really is unbelievable.

[Manveen Rana]

Tell us a bit about the political history of this constituency. How has it sort of voted in the past and what's the sort of direction of travel now?

[Ross Thompson]

Traditionally, it's an old school Labour seat. It was Labour and Labour by a distance. That has changed specifically since the referendum, the 2014 referendum, the SNP had a clean sweep.

[Manveen Rana]

This is the Scottish referendum overseas, the Scottish referendum, independence.

[Ross Thompson]

Yes, in 2015 at Westminster, they had a clean sweep.

[Manveen Rana]

You know, it's surprising that people before the independence vote didn't really want the snp. And then when the SNP lost the independence vote, people were voting for them. What was going on?

[Ross Thompson]

It's generally been the disarray of Labour over the past 20, 25 years in Scotland. The vote declined. You could see them gradually going down, gradually going down, and then new voters, new people coming out to vote maybe for the first time, really pushed the SNP over a lot of disenfranchised voters. And that really continued in both Hollywood and the Westminster elections up until 2024, when Labour took back the Mullan Wishaw seat from the snp.

[Manveen Rana]

Walking around the centre of town, people we spoke to, there was a lot of anger. Very anti Labour. More people thinking of voting reform than we would have expected. As somebody who's just followed Scottish politics for so long, is it surprising to see reform making inroads here?

[Ross Thompson]

Yes and no. I think there is still a hangover from the 2014 referendum. If you voted yes in that referendum, it's more than likely you'll vote either Green or snp. And if you voted no, it's more than likely you will vote for one of the unionist parties. Reform coming in will fragment that Unionist vote even more. So I suspect the SNP will benefit from that. But it will be fascinating to see how reform do in different parts of the country. In this area, I think they've got a chance of coming second in a few constituencies in Lanarkshire, in the northeast of Scotland, where oil and gas is obviously a big issue. I suspect they might even win a couple of seats. And in the additional members system, in the last seats, I think they will at least win two or three from each of the lists.

[Manveen Rana]

And just explain for us the additional list system, because, you know, we've been walking around town and there are some people here saying, I want to vote Green, but they're not. Green aren't on the ballot.

[Ross Thompson]

How long have you got with us? Right, so you have two votes in Scottish Parliament, you have one vote for your constituency and you have an additional vote which you can pick for a party. Your constituency will have snp, Labour, Lib Dem, Conservative and Reform, and a few independents in the last seat. It can be anything from a scene. I just had a quick look at the list before I came out. There's everything from abolish the Scottish Parliament to the Greens to Ukip to everything in between. So you can switch your vote, you could vote SNP in the constituency ballot and vote reform in the next ballot. After the constituencies are decided, they will gather up all the party lists and those parties who haven't been elected through constituencies will then be assigned a certain amount of MSPs. The list system really disadvantages the constituency winners. For example, if the SNP won every constituency, they would not get a list msp. That's why we think there's going to be a good chance for Labour reform, etc, to do well in the list. The Parliament was never designed to have a majority. It was designed for parties to work together. Whether that happens or not is another thing.

[Manveen Rana]

And just give us a sense from the people that you're talking to, from the things that you're hearing what's driving the sort of newfound support for reform around here, because it didn't feel like this area was on that part of the spectrum politically before. So what's driving that kind of support?

[Ross Thompson]

I think there's just a degree of anger people up here. We've had a Labour Scottish government, we've had an SNP Scottish government, we've had a Conservative UK government, we've had a Labour UK government, and people's standards of living have been going down. It costs a lot more to do the simple things and I think people are hoping and are desperate for something new. Whether reform can provide that is another question.

[Manveen Rana]

To understand where this desperation comes from, we take a bus a couple of miles down the road to Forgewood on the outskirts of Motherwell. This is a residential area with over a thousand homes densely packed into terraced rows and a high concentration of social housing.

[Richard Bolton]

So Forge Wood is part of Motherwell and it sits in the most deprived communities in Scotland. There's real challenges locally. We have huge issues with mental health, physical health, but everything is underpinned by poverty here.

[Manveen Rana]

Richard Bolton helps to run the Forgewood Community Centre, which is a haven for many who live here. It provides them with somewhere warm to sit, free teas and coffees and cake, and free access to wifi.

[Richard Bolton]

The community centre has been open since 2019 and it's very much in the heart of the community. There's real challenges, but it's a vibrant community as well. So, for example, We've got an over 50s exercise class today. This afternoon we have a fantastic local organization doing a recovery cafe here over the weekend. We've got everything.

[Manveen Rana]

Former addicts.

[Richard Bolton]

Yes, yes.

[Manveen Rana]

Amazing.

[Paul Murphy]

During COVID when we couldn't use the building, we used the car park for meals. Richard managed to secure funding for the Scottish government and various other providers and we did meals for the car park.

[Manveen Rana]

That's Paul Murphy, who also works at the community centre with Richard.

[Richard Bolton]

We did meals rather than food parcels because we understand the community. You know, people can't cook, people don't know how, the challenges of heating. So we provided meals. We were giving away 400 meals across both venues a day, three days a week. We'd ask them the basics. What you like, can you cook, what do your family like to eat, do you have electricity, do you have gas? And so it's a whole round support that we take. But the impact of that and how that then ripples through the community is quite incredible. There's projects that we started three or four years ago that you're starting to see the legacy now. A good example, we do social isolation trips. So the idea is you get away from Forge Wood, you spend time with people, you build up friend networks, you build up resilience. And we worked with a group of men, 60 plus, and we actually sort of bribed them in some ways to come along and with breakfast rolls on the morning. And then that led to them coming up with a project. And their project was they wanted to go to Blackpool. Of all the places they wanted to go to Blackpool and they wanted a night away from Forgewood. So over the best part of a year, they fundraised, they set up monthly bingos, they did big sales and they took 35 people from this community to Blackpool. We stayed at the Imperial. It's absolutely fantastic. We went and saw a show, we had a meal. But they addressed all the barriers. So everyone going on that trip got money. So no one was out of pocket. There was no barriers to anyone going. And to put that into context, one individual hadn't been away from Forgewood for over 10 years.

[Manveen Rana]

Wow.

[Richard Bolton]

And that's the impact we're talking about, the ripple effect of how that then impacts on that individual's.

[Manveen Rana]

You mentioned there's a recovery cafe here. How much of a problem is addiction in this community?

[Richard Bolton]

We do see the impact particularly of alcohol. There is drug issues locally as well. Mental health's probably a bigger issue, to be honest.

[Manveen Rana]

Tell me about that.

[Richard Bolton]

What do you see people with mental health on a daily basis struggling to cope, struggling to get support, impacted by poverty. Give you a good example, we gave away 200 winter coats here this year that were donated to us, that allowed people to get to places during the cold weather.

[Paul Murphy]

I know it sounds daft, but we had. We're on like a proper rail, like a shop rail. And I would regularly see Yvonne or Julie giving them advice on what quote suited them better. I know it sounds silly, but it was.

[Manveen Rana]

It gives people a sense of pride. It's not just that you're being given a coat, it's here's a coat that really suits you.

[Local Voter 3]

Yeah.

[Paul Murphy]

And they choose. It's things like that.

[Richard Bolton]

It's just the basics, you know, it's sad that we live in a society that people struggle for the basics and

[Manveen Rana]

for people here, you know, they are living often in poverty. They don't feel like they have opportunities. Who do they blame for that system? You know, we're coming up into an election. Where do they think the problems lie and what are the solutions? You think that they're looking for in terms of a political answer, in some

[Richard Bolton]

ways there's probably a lack of hope and a lack of realization that things can change. And I think that's the biggest thing. So much has been long term problems that things haven't improved year and year and year that I think there's a lack of hope that there'll be any change.

[Paul Murphy]

I think people get jaded, don't they? And I think if you're being challenged on a day to day, week to week basis in a kind of economic way, then I think it must be, must affect you. You must feel as if you're getting jaded further. So I can see why people maybe if they're looking for something political, they're maybe looking for something new.

[Manveen Rana]

Coming up. This community in Motherwell is one of the most deprived in the whole, whole of Scotland. But it wasn't always like this. After the break, we go back in time to the heyday of Motherwell when it was booming to find out what went wrong. That's in just a moment.

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[Justin Parks]

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[Manveen Rana]

So here we are at the top of the tower.

[Justin Parks]

Yeah.

[Manveen Rana]

Oh, there's more to go.

[Justin Parks]

Oh, yes, more steps.

[Local Voter 2]

Excellent.

[Manveen Rana]

I feel like I'm getting them in today. In the heart of Motherwell is the Heritage Museum and a tower that you can reach after more steps than I was anticipating. At the top is a view of the whole. Whole constituency.

[Justin Parks]

You get quite a nice, nice view here. You can see C Ben Lomond up there.

[Manveen Rana]

Justin Parks is our guide on this tour of the tower. He's the industrial History Curator for North Lanarkshire Council Museums.

[Justin Parks]

So at least gives you an idea of where you are. You know, you've got Glasgow over there, the Clyde Valley running all the way up. Up here you can also see what's left of some of the heavy industries. So you've got the Motherwell Bridge Works there, which is an engineering works with the big silver water tower. And over in the other direction, you can see DL Steelworks, which was Motherwell's first steelworks and is now its last.

[Local Voter 2]

It's still operational?

[Justin Parks]

Yes, yes.

[Farnoosh Tarabi]

How many did there used to be?

[Justin Parks]

Purely steelworks? One, two, three. Oh, five.

[Manveen Rana]

I think there's one left.

[Richard Bolton]

Yeah.

[Manveen Rana]

Definitely shrinking. It is beautiful up here.

[Justin Parks]

Yeah.

[Manveen Rana]

The hills in the background. What's most striking about this view is not so much what we can see, but what's missing. Just beyond the town center is a huge expanse over a thousand acres that used to house the Ravens Craig Steel Works. Now it's mostly a blank landscape.

[Justin Parks]

If you look beyond the tower block and beyond the DL Steel Works. So they always say that it's. It's twice the size of Monaco. Whether that's actually true, I'm not sure, but it was a colossal integrated steelworks, so the site closed in the 1990s and it's being cleared and it's slowly being redeveloped.

[Manveen Rana]

Gosh. I mean, when it was all operational, that must have been an absolutely enormous sight.

[Justin Parks]

Yes. People talk about not being able to put their washing out because it could be coasted in red dust from the steelworks.

[Manveen Rana]

Wow.

[Local Voter 2]

Shall we head down?

[Manveen Rana]

Yeah. Should we head down and have a chat? Justin, we've just been touring the Heritage Centre here in Motherwell, walking around some of the artifacts that show kind of bits of Motherwell in its heyday.

[Justin Parks]

Yes.

[Manveen Rana]

When it was a real hub for. Not in the industry, but socially. Just describe what that Motherwell was like and when was that? When was its heyday?

[Justin Parks]

I suppose Its heyday was the late 19th and early 20th century in terms of sort of the coal mines and the steelworks. The town really developed as a result of the railways in the 1840s and 1850s. Then the iron industry arrived and then steel making in the 1880s, and then they supplied steel for. Or big liners like the Titanic as well.

[Manveen Rana]

Oh, wow. All from here.

[Justin Parks]

Yes. Yeah. And from that point onwards, you have. If you walk along park street, you'll still see the remains of these old industries, row after row of engineering works, wagon works, crane works, boiler works, all along the town. So it was a real concentration of all kinds of industries at that time.

[Manveen Rana]

When it's this bustling industrial center, this quite a lot of prosperity and wealth and there's, you know, you can sort of see signs of it around town. There's a beautiful old library, a beautiful town hall.

[Justin Parks]

Yes, yes. A lot of grand civic buildings.

[Richard Bolton]

Definitely.

[Justin Parks]

And this does carry on into the 1950s and 60s as well, when Ravenscraig opens, which is the most advanced steelworks in Scotland.

[Manveen Rana]

So tell us about that, because this area becomes almost synonymous with Ravenscraig for a while, it becomes one of the biggest sites for steel being produced.

[Justin Parks]

Yes. And it was already a very important steel town. Big changes were taking place in the steel industry and Ravenscraig actually helped the town survive a lot of these changes. Because it was the most advanced steelworks. It brought new prosperity. People who worked in Ravenscape were paid more because it was such an advanced steelworks. I've interviewed quite a few former Ravenscraig workers and they do talk about the new prosperity it gave them. Suddenly they could afford a car.

[Manveen Rana]

Ravenscraig was shut down. Just describe the process after that and how it's affected Motherwell.

[Ross Thompson]

Yeah.

[Justin Parks]

The site was slowly cleared in the 1990s. It's affected people in lots of ways. I say lots of people had to move away from the area to find work. Everyone who left Ravenscraige was offered to training. But many people I've spoken to, you know, it just. It didn't. It didn't fulfill their needs and, you know, a lot of people ended up unemployed. Lots of consequences with addiction issues in the area, for instance, and, you know, continuing unemployment. It was a very traumatic time. And yet I've had. I've had people crying, talking to me about their experiences of Raven's crate closing. One man whose father worked with him in Ravenscraig and his father died of a heart attack very, you know, very soon before the works closed and he puts it down to the stress.

[Manveen Rana]

And it is now a regeneration site. Tell us about that. Is there sort of signs of hope?

[Justin Parks]

Yes, I mean, there's a sports center which has been established for quite a number of years now. There's a college on the site and there's housing beginning to be built. There's new paths around the sites. So in a way it's becoming a public place, whereas previously it was off limits. So in that respect it is quite nice. You know, there's been a period of uncertainty, but it does feel now more like things are moving.

[Manveen Rana]

A short bus ride accompanied by a very unusual soundtrack takes you to the most impressive part of the old Ravenscraig site. Ravens Craig's Sports Center. Huge. We've just come to the Ravens Craig Regional Sports Facility, which is an incredibly impressive, quite futuristic looking sports center. And for years this was just a patch of barren land with the hope of it being regenerated. And now we can see signs of that regeneration happening. The sports centre is almost 25 meters in height. It feels more like a cathedral than a gym. There's an indoor athletics track, a cafe tucked into corners. There are gyms and dance studios, and just beyond reception there's a full size indoor football pitch. And rows of seats have been set up along the sides where groups of parents are now watching their children playing a game. Hello.

[Ross Thompson]

Hello.

[Manveen Rana]

Sorry, we're just sort of asking people their opinions really about the local elections.

[Ross Thompson]

Okay.

[Manveen Rana]

Do you know which way you'll vote?

[Ross Thompson]

Absolutely, yes, I'll vote for the SNP again. The other parties promised change, but they've got no point for delivering it.

[Paul Murphy]

And I think I'm happy with the

[Ross Thompson]

SNP's focus on kind of pro immigration, you know, looking after families. You know, they're not perfect, but you know what political party is.

[Local Voter 4]

They were thinking, I'll be voting for the SNP.

[Manveen Rana]

Really? Do you always vote for the SNP?

[Local Voter 4]

Well, I have done for the last 12 years, 14 years.

[Manveen Rana]

And what's decided your vote?

[Local Voter 4]

Well, I think they have managed very well and so many benefits for our young people, you know, like free bus travel, university education paid for. So I think there's lots of evidence that they've managed the resources very well for Scotland and that they fight Urkon.

[Manveen Rana]

Do you feel you've personally felt the benefit of it?

[Local Voter 4]

No, no, I personally don't need any of these things, although I do have a granddaughter who will be going to university. I always feel that government is to get the best benefit for the majority of people, not just for a particular section. So even though I might not need the money, I do think it's great that other families that do need it get it.

[Manveen Rana]

I think if I was going to

[Local Voter 2]

sway one way of potentially talking snp, which would be the first time I've done that, really.

[Manveen Rana]

And what's made you think you would switch? I don't have faith in any other parties.

[Local Voter 2]

I think previously I voted Labour, so I don't know, don't think they've done

[Manveen Rana]

exceedingly well this time around. And I would vote Conservative, so it

[Local Voter 2]

certainly does limit your options as to

[Manveen Rana]

what you want to go for.

[Local Voter 2]

So at the moment, I'm probably swaying closer to the SNP than I've ever done before.

[Manveen Rana]

Well, so first time. Potentially not decided yet, but potentially it might go that way. Listening carefully while we're talking is an older man, this woman's father, who had his own thoughts. Can I ask you the same thing?

[Richard Bolton]

Yes, you can ask me something.

[Manveen Rana]

What are you thinking?

[Richard Bolton]

I'm thinking, are we voting labor after

[Manveen Rana]

two days in this area? This is the first person we've met who's talked about Labour with any enthusiasm.

[Richard Bolton]

The reason for voting Labour is to so that try and stop SMP getting in again. And I honestly think that Mr. Sarwar will do a good job for Scotland.

[Manveen Rana]

What are your concerns about the SNP getting in again?

[Richard Bolton]

Well, it's like every political party that's been in a very long time, they start running out of ideas and because they run out of good ideas, they start coming up with ideas that are less than good. I want to stop that and that's why I would be voting Labour.

[Manveen Rana]

Anna Sawa, the beleaguered leader of Scottish Labour, is watching his support plummet in this Hollywood election, mostly because of the politics playing out in Westminster. As Ross Thompson, editor of the Whishaw press, explained,

[Ross Thompson]

After 2024, Anna Salva was the favourite to be the next first minister and I think he'll be delighted if Labour get any second place at this election.

[Manveen Rana]

Is there that sort of, like, disconnect? People are voting the Scottish elections, but this feels like a referendum on. On Westminster.

[Ross Thompson]

I think it's unfortunate for Labour because they just. They rode the coattails of the success that Starmer and co had in the run up to the general election. I think Anna Sarwa has been a pretty effective leader of Scottish Labour, but you can see by the way he's distancing himself from Starmer, trying to put distance between them and the UK party. But I fear it might be too late in this election, I think it's going to be very interesting to see how reform does across the country, particularly in this area. In 2024, Reform got around 3,000 votes and the mother will wish on Kalute constituency. Can they build on that? I think they probably can. Will it be enough for them to get elected? I don't think so, but it will certainly be a real wake up call to other parties. I remember being in the hall when the counting was going on and obviously speaking to activists for all parties. They were surprised at the level of support reform got in 2024. So I mean, all bets could be off on election night. It could be very exciting.

[Manveen Rana]

And because this is an election episode, here is the obligatory list of the parties and candidates standing in the area. We enlisted the help of the Forgewood Community Centre and in particular its over 50s fitness class for this one. These are the parties that you can vote for in Mothervale. Abolish the Scottish Parliament Party Advance, UK Alliance, Deliberate Scotland.

[Local Voter 2]

Independent Green Voice, Independence for Scotland Party.

[Manveen Rana]

Scottish Labour Party, Reformed UK Scottish Family Party.

[Local Voter 4]

Scottish Liberal Democrats.

[Local Voter 2]

Scottish Libertarian Party.

[Local Voter 4]

Scottish Green Party, Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party.

[Local Voter 2]

Ukip.

[Manveen Rana]

A couple more, but we're nearly there. Yeah, could we get you to do one?

[Richard Bolton]

Scottish Liberal Democrats, Scottish National Party, Workers Party, Scotland.

[Manveen Rana]

Thank you so much. And last but not least, we've got Dominic James Alderson running as an independent for the constituency. The producer today was Taryn Siegel. The executive producer was Tim Walklate. Sound design and theme composition were by Malicetto. If you'd like to get in touch with us about this or any other episode, do drop us a line to the [e-mail]. thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.

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[Richard Bolton]

Okay, caller one wins courtside seats to tonight's game. What? I won floor seats.

[Manveen Rana]

You did?

[Richard Bolton]

I've been calling for 13 months. Wait. Chris.

[Local Voter 1]

Yes.

[Richard Bolton]

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